trump's favor. nbc has learned that two people not previously disclosed by don jr. were also present in that meeting. along with then campaign manager paul manafort and jared kushner. one of them is rinat akhmetshin with reported ties to russian intelligence agencies. he denies having any current ties to the russian government. akhmetshin offered "the washington post" his own account of the controversial meeting disclosing the new detail that the lawyer, natalia veselnitskaya quote left a document behind after the meeting. possibly containing information she believed could incriminate the democratic national committee. this flood of new information is coming just days after don jr. said on television that he told us everything there was to know about this encounter. >> i'm more than happy to be transparent about it and i'm more than happy to cooperate

with everyone. >> this is as far as you're concerned all of it? >> this is everything. everything. >> kelly o'donnell is with us from new jersey where president trump is spending the weekend along with national security reporter ken dilanian, and "the washington post" chief white house bureau chief philip rucker. chief was a bit redundant in there but you get the picture. ken dilanian, this is your reporting. what do we know about this meeting and do we have any idea why this former counterintelligence officer would have been in it? >> well, there's the official story and then there's the suspicions that people have. the official story is we're not -- rinat akhmetshin, this former intelligence officer has worked with the russian lawyer who went to the meeting on a lobbying campaign against magnitsky act sanctions for a long time and they're arguing against the sanctions to argue against the underlining story behind the sanctions. according to their accounts at

the beginning of the news organization, according to her account to nbc news, they sought to bring to the trump campaign's attention some contributions to the democratic national committee that the trump campaign apparently wasn't very impressed with. donald jr. said, thanks, this isn't very much. now that's the story but that doesn't square though with the e-mails that came through rob goldstone from the agalarov family where they offered explicit help from the russian government and seemed to be promising derogatory information about hillary clinton. why do the two stories seem to be so far apart? >> ken, the other story, if we can put that graphic up again showing who was in the meeting is who's the final person in that meeting? we have five faces on this screen. who is this sixth person? >> yeah, that's something nbc news does not know. it's nothing we have been able to confirm, katy. >> do we have any idea if it was a friend, somebody on the donald trump jr. side? somebody on the veselnitskaya side, ken? >> we believe it was on the

veselnitskaya side, that we have been told. we don't know the identify of the person. >> got it. kelly o'donnell, any idea or what is the white house saying about the fact that more revelations keep popping up? are they evolving their story once again? >> not talking any further about it. the president has just returned to the united states might be the first time that air force one went direct paris to newark. that's what happened this afternoon and the president will spend the weekend at his bedminster, new jersey, home. the white house is taking some new steps though, katy. that is to bring in an additional lawyer into the white house to be a part of the team to handle a number of the kinds of requests that typically go to a white house counsel's office. so to allow don mcgahn who has been in the job to deal with the administration's own agenda, but to bring in man named ty cobb. if you heard that name before, he is related to the georgia peach of baseball fame. but ty cobb the attorney will be

the face of how the white house will respond to these questions and will also be a point person to handle inquiries from the committees that will be making requests and things like that. lawyering up is part of what we're seeing in this phase. that's a natural part of this. because as greater inquiries come in, official as well as media, there's a lot of work to be done. and one of the things that in talking with lawyers on the various teams over the last few days that they want to try to do is institute what they say is greater discipline to -- here we have a situation that you have family members, some of them working together as in the president and jared kushner who worked together in the white house, the president's son donald trump jr. of course a family member. and it would be natural for them to have conversations and interaction all the time. typically, in a case where you have figures who are a part of an investigation they aren't always necessarily that close together. so trying to institute some discipline so they're not talking about these matters, not working on ideas on how to respond together, to do that

through the proper channels of various legal teams. it's not easy to navigate that and it's another sign of how complicated this is. by bringing another lawyer into the white house it's an effort to say that the agenda of the trump administration and there are lots of things to do legally think of the travel ban, think of regulation, a lot to do that's the official business of the white house. and so sort of crisis response incorporated is coming into the white house now. >> it's also a patch work of explanations for this meeting. phil rucker, the story has changed. don jr. and the white house haven't been exactly forthcoming about this meeting and now folks are saying it's a cover-up. >> that's right. don jr.'s story changed over several days through the weekend and into monday or tuesday. until he came on sean hannity's show and did a clearing of the air, tried to get everything out and it turns out clearly he did not. that's a problem for him, it's also a problem for this white house which has been not fully disclosing everything. you are seeing a lot of amended

disclosure documents. we are seeing stories change in the white house. you know, sometimes this could be because of human error, but it begs a question of whether there's more of a systematic failure in place in sort of figuring out how to manage this russia crisis. >> what does this all mean for robert mueller? >> well, look, this meeting was already no doubt a great target of scrutiny for mueller and for the house and senate investigations. after all, this is the first evidence of collusion that we have seen of the russian government offering explicitly to help the trump campaign and don jr. instead of calling the fbi accepting it. the fact that so many things about this meeting have been concealed and the fact that the trump side has been so misleading about the nature of the immediating and that even today we're learning something new about it i think is only going to further intrigue and pique the interest of the investigators. >> isn't it plausible that the president didn't know about this sooner? we got word his lawyers knew

about this three weeks ago. >> it doesn't seem reasonable to me based on how we know that donald trump operates. you know as much about this as anybody. it doesn't seem implausible to me he wouldn't have been informed in some way. >> you had a great take today on the lawyers and how they're trying to wrangle this president and wrangle this white house and you write after one meeting in which the lawyers urged donald trump to steer clear of a certain topic he sent a tweet about that very theme before they arrived back at their office. he's not listening. that seems to be the message that you're conveying and that the lawyers are conveying. >> that's exactly right. that conclusion is he may be the worst client ever when it comes to a legal environment. in part because he feels he's innocent. he doesn't think he's done anything wrong. and therefore, he's taking his own advice and when somebody says don't do that, you can get in trouble, he sees all of this as a big hoax. so he's -- he doesn't want to listen. he's never listened. he's operated in a private

business world where he's been able to kind of shade the truth and get away with a lot of things and in some cases thrive because of it and now he's a public official the ramifications are severe and the expectations for truthfulness and for obeying the traditional legal boundaries are very real. >> kelly, can part of this be explained by donald trump being somebody who was a reality show host, somebody who was in the tv spotlight, somebody who spent an entire lifetime battling with the press and battling with his opponents, battling with other business developers, battling with the city, just somebody who relished in a fight. >> and the force of his personality often was the difference for him in those kind of instances. he is certainly been litigious in his business life, but the stakes are different. we are talking about criminal and civil penalties so it's a different level. but political penalties are

already even harder to calculate as to how big this could become. one of the things that sources have told to me, because he's known to sometimes repeat what he's told by his advisers even after they have given him a warning, that may be one theory under which he might not have been told by his legal team because there's a high sensitivity that talking to the president about some of these things as phil explained when it's something that he should be able to fight back about, it has a tendency to come out of his mouth, around to his twitter feed. so possibly one source that i spoke to suggested that perhaps the president didn't have all of the information in realtime because those who have come to know him well in this environment have tried to protect him from knowing that. that's a theory with sources familiar do how this -- to how this is working. we have to see how much he did know, the time line, the involvement of his immediate time members. not only his son but his son-in-law. >> guy, thank you very much. joining me is maria iknow hossa

from npr's latino usa. reverend al sharpton, president of the national action network. republican strategist susan del percio. thank you for being here. a lot to delve into. there has been a revelation every single day this week and we're ending on today the news by nbc that there was another person in that room. two more people in that room and one of them is reported to be a counterintelligence official with russia. he says he's not in any current intelligence role with russia, but does it smell okay to you, susan? >> this week is a real changing point. a lot of people especially republicans said, all right, the russians were involved, but is there trump collusion for not? now it's come to the fact that while a week ago we may have said the cover-up's worse than the crime, i think that we're looking at potentially the crime being worse than the cover-up. meaning that there are a lot of

things that all of these people are lying about. especially jared kushner with his security clearance and having to fill out those forms. there's a reason why they won't tell everything. there's no way any pr or lawyer would tell don jr. to go on camera and say i'm telling you everything. and not -- either the lawyer didn't know or he was just really bad at giving advice because normally when you do that kind of mea culpa, you tell everything. there's been three things that have happened and there's probably more. so i think that this meeting is going to be proven very significant and very dangerous to the trump administration. >> is it fair to say they're lying, rev? >> i think it's fair to say they're not telling the truth. now, that can mean lying or that could mean they have had a rampant case of amnesia throughout the whole trump organization. i mean, if it was what we were told that it was just an innocent meeting, that we talked about adoptions, it's the kind

of thing we do all the time. then why wouldn't you say that in the beginning and say, these are the people in the meeting, it was nothing. the fact that we're getting this drip drop every day in and of itself means they're holding something because you don't drip drop unless you're afraid that the flood is going to drown you. and i think that that's where we are at. we're beginning to see the levees break and the flooding is coming here. >> the thing for us as journalists and those of us who are democracy or political junkies we're thriving on this as journalists. i'm worried about what's happening out there. >> you say we're thriving on it. explain that point. >> well, because -- i mean, i'm glad there are reporters who are doing this kind of work. i'm and plauding the fact -- applauding the fact that we as journalists are not stopping doing our work. so i'm happy about that. i -- >> intimidation tactics, the calls of fake news. >> that's right. we're journalist, we're going to

do this. i agree with you this is an important week but i worry we're at the point, no, this is the big game changer. this is the big game changer and it's like -- >> we haven't -- i think this is a turning point that people are starting to think there is a crime or something to be concerned about versus having people kind of mishandle things. >> so at a point you're saying, everything is so loud right now, if something happens how will everyone hear it? everyone is yelling at this point. coming up, who is rinat akhmetshin? new reporting about the former soviet officer who met with donald trump jr. we'll talk to a reporter who spent the day digging into his background. plus -- around the clock health care negotiations. republicans can't afford to lose another vote. will mitch mcconnell be able to cut enough deals to sway those senators on the fence? and ahead in the hour, a rare moment of political levity at a time when it seems like we could really use it.

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the meeting with the russian lawyer more than a year ago. i want to bo to ken vogel, political reporter for "the new york times." you have been reporting on this meeting and lobbyist all day. so far what have you learned about rinat akhmetshin's ties to the russian government? >> well, rinat akhmetshin had actually been in the russian military, russian army and had been in the intelligence services. but our understanding is that he was drafted. he didn't get any like specific intelligence training to the point where you would be able to call him a spy necessarily. nonetheless, he immigrated to the united states in 1994. he will be a -- he had been living here since and he's built quite a life for himself in washington, d.c., where he's represented a range of these russian connected businesses and russian businesses, both actually lobbying before congress to some extent. but more so paving sort of behind -- acting behind the scenes is what you might colloquially call a fixer. >> what would he be doing in this meeting?

>> well, he had been working with the russian lawyer, natalia veselnitskaya, on a -- for a nonprofit that was lobbying to overturn the magnitsky act. this is a bill that passed congress in 2012 that contained a range of sanctions against russian business people who were believed to be linked to the death of this russian auditor. a guy named sergei magnitsky who up covered the fraud whoepdzed up with some litigation in the united states. the federal government brought charge against the perpetrators of this fraud. well, the sanctions infuriated vladimir putin and he wanted to see it overturned. not only veselnitskaya and rinat akhmetshin were working on this effort in d.c. to overturn th this -- to overturn this bill, that's what they said that they were talking about with donald trump jr., jared kushner and paul manafort in the now

infamous meeting in trump tower in june of last year. >> and why does chuck grassley want more information about him? >> well, we understand and our reporting shows that in fact u.s. justice department has reached out to rinat akhmetshin and asked him why he didn't register under the foreign agent's registration act for this work that he was doing to try to overturn the magnitsky act. the suggestion there is that the nonprofit was actually funded by someone connected to the russian government. that's our understanding of what chuck grassley is upset about as well. we now know that like paul manafort and like mike flynn, rinat akhmetshin may have to revise his filings with the federal -- under the foreign agents registration act or under scrutiny for violating it. >> could it be he was in the meeting because he was a friend

of natalia's? >> no. that's not a way you're having a meeting with donald trump jr. by the way, i'm bringing along a friend. it doesn't seem implausible to me. by the way i'm not coming alone, i'm bringing somebody with me. i mean, that doesn't seem plausible. >> i'd like to have a healthy dose of skepticism, especially when things get really loud. could it just be that this trump campaign did not know what they were doing and that nothing actually came out of this? it looks really bad, but that's about it? >> even with the healthy dose of skepticism you have to deal with the fact that they told us there was never any kind of communication with the russians. so if there's a lot of us that have become quote loud about it, it's because they misdirected and in many ways misspoke about the facts. they are the ones that said are you kidding, we don't meet with

russians. we have only talked these amount of times in this circumstance. now you're finding out something different. so if it appears like people are loudly responding to a meeting that they say is innocent it's because they told us there were no other meetings and that they were in many ways giving us misinformation. >> ken, there is a sixth person that was in that room. can you tell us anything about who that person might be? >> yeah, absolutely. we can confirm that that person was a translator for natalia veselnitskaya. his name is anatoly summerchernoff. that's confirmed to us. the translator had worked with veselnitskaya over the years including on this effort to overturn the magnitsky act which again was a priority of no less than vladimir putin. interestingly this translator had also worked as a contract we are the united states state department doing translation and

interpretation services. so in all of these things, the lines are kind of blurry as to is this person -- you know, is this person acting on behalf of putin, are they pro russian or are they -- you know, are they pro united states? it's sort of anti-russian. same thing can be said of rinat akhmetshin. we talked to a number of folks who have worked with him who say this guy is as american as apple pie. he's very skeptical of putin. nonetheless, here he is. here this translator is in the meeting pushing for a top priority of vladimir putin. >> ken, did you just break some news on the program? >> i think the name of the translator has not been out there as confirmed having in that meeting. >> remind us his name again. >> his name is anatoly summerchernoff. i may be butchering that with many of the russian names. he's a russian born guy who's worked with natalia veselnitskaya. >> he's a translator who said -- done some work for the state department? >> yeah, that's correct. we don't have the details on

that. nonetheless, it just goes to show when you get into this sphere of sort of expatriates or people who function in the international circles it's never quite as clear cut. you can't identify somebody's ideology and use that to generalize about all of their goals or what they're doing in any given circumstance. >> ken vogel, thank you for breaking some news here. we're so happy we had you on today. couldn't have been better timing. up next though the latest in the ongoing health care negotiations. we're going to talk about some more russian later in the hour. we'll take a small break for health care. with time running out majority leader mitch mcconnell spent the day negotiating with wary members of his party and even the president made some phone calls. but it's not just senators on the fence. more red state governors are speaking out. >> now they can make all the statements they want in

washington, d.c. we as governors on the ground have to deal with it. what i'm seeing out of this isn't going to help montana or any of the other states. down by one. championship on the line. erin "the sharpshooter" shanahan fakes left. she's outside of the key, she shoots... ...she scores! uh... yes, erin, it is great time to score a deal. we need to make room for the 2018 models. relive the thrill of beating the clock. the volkswagen model year end event. hurry in for a $1,000 bonus and 0% apr on a new 2017 jetta or passat. only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. tylenol® when a fire destroyedwith us everything in our living room. we replaced it all without touching our savings. yeah, our insurance won't do that. no. you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™.

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donald trump has been working the phones while in france this week. he is trying to gin up support for his failing health care reform. two no votes have given to do list. joining us with the latest is garrett haake. in the wee hours after the new legislation yesterday the common refrain we heard from the undecideds, they had read the legislation or they still had to read it. it's been 24 hours. have a lot of them read it? >> they're working through it, katy. in fact, portman of ohio who is one of the early no votes on the first draft actually tweeted out a picture of himself sitting down at a conference table somewhere back in ohio to go through the legislation.

i talked to someone from senator murkowski's office, she was going to read it on the long flight back to alaska. both this bill and looking ahead to monday when they get the cbo score when it breaks down what this means. >> we're hearing according to kasie hunt that the president called rand paul and ted cruz to talk about health care. any idea what he had spoken about? >> that's really interesting our because our capitol hill team has broken down -- we're calling all the different no votes trying to figure out who the president was talking to and what he might have been saying. and those are the two names that we came up with. ted cruz and rand paul. paul is arguably the hardest no of the no votes here. he said this vote fails to do what the republicans set out to owhich is to -- set out to do which is repeal and replace obamacare. and cruz is in the yes column because this has his amendment in it.

they're calling two senators that he likes. he's been golfing with rand paul. >> isn't it amazing to say he likes ted cruz? i find it so surprising after everything that happened last year. >> well, ted cruz who is running for re-election next year by the way is working hard to get this done and get other conservatives on board. what you don't see is the president making any kind of outreach to those moderate senators, the portmans, the murkowskis and the collinss and they have to get them back on board here. whether that's strategy to leave to mitch mcconnell or not a strategy he wants to have, we'll live it to somebody. >> why is the president not calling murkowski, collins, the ones who make it more moderate? >> because they would say, listen, we have to do more. and we should make this a bipartisan effort. and donald trump does not want to make this a bipartisan effort. >> why does donald trump not want to work with the other side here? >> i think he's dug himself in and just like so many other issues he doesn't want to say,

oh, maybe i was wrong. he doesn't like saying that. but they fundamentally miss the issue when it came -- this shows kind of donald trump's inexperience in government. obamacare didn't just help 20 million people get health insurance. it affected everyone with health insurance. it became an entitlement for seven years. imagine if i said to you today, let's repeal and replace social security. it's basically the same type of entitlement that's now built into the system. people would be screaming and he just -- i don't think he understands how this works. and that's his fundamental problem and he'd rather leave it -- >> but maria, he touted himself as the deal maker. why would the deal maker not want to make a deal any way he could? between houses of congress in theory would be a lot easier if he just reached across the aisle or forced republicans to reach across the aisle and find a way to fix obamacare. >> okay. i'm going to review what i have been binge watching.

>> go ahead. >> "billions." i'm watching it in -- >> spoiler alert. >> you know what he does, his politic is this is me. i'm never giving in, i'm going to continue to fight. i'm going to fight fight fight. and i mean, is he successful, i don't know. i haven't gotten to the end. but is donald trump successful? he did become president but if you look at his business successes there are some questions there. so i think you're exactly right. kind of like this is me. i'm dug in. what we're all watching is are you digging yourself into a hole so deep and you're going to take us all down with you? >> politically is it good for democrats just to watch this, rev? >> i think it is. unfortunately good for democrats and i'm saying unfortunately not that i don't support most of what the democrats do from time to time. but because he is really in a deal making situation that he does not understand the deal. i agree with susan. this is not as cut and dry as

business deals or even entertainment. the ramifications of this and what it does to the average american i don't think he understands. so it's not about trading and i've got to win against the opposition. it is what going to happen to millions of people that are impacted by what you do or don't do that he does not understand. this not a one-on-one on one five deal. he doesn't get it. he's in a territory now he's never been in. >> it's not running an organization. >> he's running a private business organization. >> much different. >> he doesn't have a board of directors. he's never had to build consensus before. >> i think he thinks his cabinet is his board of directors. >> but he didn't have a board of directors at the trump organization. it was call my sons and give orders. >> good point. >> you have to deal with consensus. he's never had to deal with it. >> garrett, you were trying to jump in. >> yeah, i think it's important to point out this is not unique to president trump. republicans have been running on repeal for the last seven years

basically. and so republicans at all layers of congress and at all layers of government said we have to repeal this law. if republicans switch their language tomorrow and said we have to repair obamacare and we want to be the party that fixes this program, i think they'd see a lot of moderates working with them. but they put themselves in the box in the language that they have to get to repeal. that makes it much more different. they can't walk backwards at this point. that's not unique to the president but every member of the house of representatives and mess of the members of the senate. >> but they're not even going to repeal it. they have to do this in steps. they're dismantling obamacare. >> as long as they can put that language on it they can present it as a victory. >> thank you very much. the panel is stay with us. one of most outspoken critics of president trump weighs in on the new twist

involving his sons meeting with russian intermediaries. when i first started working with capital one, my dad called them up and asked for "the jennifer garner card" which is such a dad thing to do. after he gave his name the woman from capital one said "mr. garner, are you related to jennifer?" kind of joking with him. and my dad was so proud to tell her, "as a matter of fact, she is my middle daughter". so now dad has the venture card, he's earning his double miles, and he made a friend at the company. can i say it? go ahead! what's in your wallet? nice job dad.

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people using sinister sounding descriptions in order to basically distract us from some of the corruption and i might add questionable activities of their own presidential candidate in the last election. >> i don't find any crime or any harm in asking questions and getting answers, even from people that we haven't -- for whom we have no respect. >> two republican congressmen on the floor of the house this afternoon defending donald trump jr. against attacks from democrats and some republicans. one of the most prominent voices against the trump administration has been congresswoman maxine waters. she tweeted this afternoon, quote, trump says he's done more than any other president in five

months. true. he will be the first to have a son and son-in-law under investigation. joining us now is congresswoman maxine waters. thank you very much for joining sglus you're welcome. >> i'm wondering if you have any reaction to your fellow congress people, rohrabacher and gohmert, who you heard a moment ago. >> i didn't hear what they had to say, except that i know that it's amazing that we have members of congress who are defending and protecting this president. i am surprised. i'm surprised because many of these republican congress people have really claimed to be extremely patriotic and at times have indicated that others on the opposite side of the aisle are not as patriotic because of their progressive or liberal views. but here they are in the face of

growing evidence that there has been contacts with, perhaps collusion with, and obstruction of justice by this president. they're willing to defend him. and i don't know if they're just scared of him. if they're frightened. if they don't have the guts to stand up and call it like it is and recognize that evidence is pouring in and it's growing or what is -- what is wrong with them. i just don't quite understand. or why they don't -- yes, why they don't have the strength to do it. >> a lot of them will say that they don't agree with it. they don't think it was a good idea, that it was a no no. for those words, no no. but then they'll say they're frankly waiting for robert mueller to do his investigation. after all, he's doing an investigation. when he comes up with his conclusion did something happen that was wrong potentially illegal, something that should not have happened, then they will make their final decision on this. do you allow them that patience?

>> well, let me just say this. if they don't have the courage to at least recognize that something is wrong, that it doesn't seem right that jared kushner has not told the truth in, you know, giving the information that's necessary for him to have the security clearance that he has, something's wrong with the president firing comey in the way that he did, and perhaps it is not correct for him to give classified information to russians who are sitting inside the white house. if they can't even recognize that and say, well, that doesn't seem right then they are showing that that they don't have courage. i'm not saying they have to come to the conclusion they should be impeached for example. but i'm saying that they should have the sense to simply just recognize that this is unusual. this is extraordinary. and this love of putin that this

president is showing and this defense of putin that this president has done and all of the other things that i just alluded to is unseemly. then i think that they are not ready for the bottom line and for what's going to come out of this. they're hoping that it's not true. but yes, our special counsel is going to do the investigation and i think there's growing evidence he's going to have the information that's going to lead right to impeachment. that's what i believe. so they can delay it in their minds all they want to. but if they can't even recognize that some of these things just seem unseemly then i think they're just scared -- scared of him. >> what if mueller does come back and does say that nothing was wrong, that didn't look good, but ultimately nothing was illegal there? >> well, if the special counsel comes back with that kind of determination and if this country wants to continue with

this president who's embarrassing all of us internationally, who does not understand the relationship with our allies and how important it is and who will continue to have this criminal clan surrounding him all looking toward putin and the kremlin clan wanting to, you know, make sure that we lift these sanctions, if they want to have that kind of leadership if they want to have this presid t president, then america can do that. but i think that that's not going to happen. >> congresswoman maxine water, thank you very much for your time. >> well, you're certainly welcome. up next, a sight you don't often see these days? a prominent democratic and republican sharing the stage with nothing but nice things to say about each other. >> can your granddaughter sing

happy birthday in mandarin? >> no, but she can in spanish. so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open.

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i think it starts with bill clinton being a person who refused to lord his victory over dad. in other words, he was hummable in victory which is very important in dealing with other people. >> if you want to be president, realize it's about the people, not about you. you want to be able to say

people are better off when i quit, kids had a better future, things were coming together. you don't want to say, god, look at all the people i beat. >> that was former presidents george w. bush and bill clinton last night stressing the importance of humility in the oval office. the two were part of a leadership event in dallas where they seemed to make several veiled references to the 45th president without uttering his name. one thing was clear, in a deeply divided washington their friendship has become a beacon of sorts for a potential bipartisan bonding. joining the panel, david nakamura from "the washington post" who covered the obama administration. welcome. what do you make of seeing those two former presidents on stage together, getting along and giving veiled advice to this current president? >> i think you're right. it did seem like veiled advice. it's sort of a heart warming scene when you see the former presidents on stage like that. and, you know, i think there's a

couple of things there. first of all, it's a small fraternity, one of the world's smallest of living presidents who can empathize what each other went through. it's a time of course for the presidents where it's far less stressful when you're out of office and your popularity tends to be on the rise and you can be more magnanimous in this regard. i think they were trying to make the point for the current president his talking continuously about the campaign, talking about his big victory, at times, you know, sort of misrepresenting the level of that victory over hillary clinton is not production and is not a way to sort of governed a advance your agenda ultimately. to say it's all about the kids or making sure people's lives are better, that's what it was all about. these two were political in their day but the goal of the presidency is to change the country in sort of a -- along the lines of your agenda and this current president has been wrapped up in sort of extraneous other issue, many of his own making. >> these two were deeply divisive while they were in

office. they were deeply divisive to some now. but they're sitting on stage togethe together, not seeing the ability for people to come together, get along, discuss their difference, debate their differences, instead of seeing two camps ever farther away from each other and unwilling to work together? >> i think a lot of it is because we have a different political culture now. we have a president that ran on us against them. as much as i disagreed with george bush, he ran on certain policies that you disagreed with the policy, but he didn't make me feel he was running against me. you have a president now that ran against me. and i think that that is why you have a culture that is hard to reconcile. i remember when president obama was in, he actually had newt gingrich and i go together on an education tour of the we didn't agree in the day of the week that we were working, but we could deal with each other and

actually got along because we agreed on some education policies. but when you make it so personal and so will acrimonyous that -- which i think we are seeing now, you can't get the kind of picture we saw then. >> david, they're very clearly talking about donald trump, but they're making it veiled. would it not be better for them both to say, listen, we are talking to donald trump and we want him to get the message? ultimately that's what they're trying to do any way. >> right. it might be -- it's hard to know whether donald trump would listen to it one way or the other, frankly. i think what's interesting is president obama certainly was not on that panel he may not be ready to enganl in that manner yet, still so close to his own presidency. what's interesting is president obama as he was leaving office talked a lot about lessons he took in 2009 when he took over from president george w. bush in that for all the divisive nls of a campaign was mag unanimous mouse in trying to extend help

to the ip coming obama administration and then after he left wasn't in the news a lot, stayed out of the lime height, did not second-guess president obama even as he disagreed with the policies. that's going to be my model. that's interesting, though, president trump has attacked president obama and his policies in a way that, you know, president obama's aides would say is more personal, more -- you know, just direct attacks and at times just completely false, such as saying that president obama wire tapped during the transition. now you've seen president obama talking about everything from the tranl ban to other immigration policies from president trump, and of course, to health care. president obama has spoken out, and the trump administration does not appreciate that either. so, you know, i think the presidents who have been farther in the past can sort of get on stage like that together, but you're seeing even now two presidents really kind of doing battle in the public sphere and i think that goes to show the stakes involved in what's happening right now. >> there are many people pointing to us at the table

saying that we are part of the prison, the media is part of the problem reporting on the russia investigation every day is an issue and it's dividing the country further and that maybe everybody should just be quiet, talk about policy and let robert mueller do his job. >> i think that robert mueller should do his job, but i think the media has to do its job, and its job is to deal with real issues. first of all, i don't think that we would have robert mueller if the media had not done its job and kept this issue out there. and let's not forget, donald trump is tweeting two and three times a day. is the media supposed to ignore the tweets of the president of the united states where he's attacking people like mr. comey, the fbi director, where he's attacking people like president obama? so a lot of what the media is loudly responding to is the loud tweets of the president. and i don't see how we could shut up and allow him to tweet in the silence of our reporting it and responding to it.

>> we have less than one minute left, but i want two quick thoughts from you. >> i think back to when i was a little girl and watergate was happening and i heard these words like and deep throat and leaks and i was like oh, and that's how i worry that so much of the country is like oh, god, stop. and that's just not good for any of us, because this is our country that we're talking about. so i'm very concerned. >> and for no other reason. we need to find out what russia was up to meldsing in our elections and what they plan on doing going forward because i didn't believe in our democracy. >> thank you very much for joining us. and before we head to the break, there's something making the rounds today, and we just could not resist it. president trump, famous for the art of the deal and really the art of the handshake, you may have seen some of his best greetings with world leaders, including this famous white knuckle handshake when he and

french president emmanuel macron first met. this is one for the highlight reel. you will see him going in, reechk first for the handshake. they're headaching. it's a normal handshake. they are not letting go. donald trump patting on the top, still shaking. macron is off balance, he's off his feet. a pat on the back. they are still shaking, folks. they're wrestling, they're holding. who is going to come hout? is somebody going to break this shake? oh, the french first lady is in for it. there is a three way handshake going on right now. the world's first three way handshake. will it be a four way handshake? is melania getting in? they've got an arm. four way handshake. but macron and trump have let go of each other. is this the end? there's a pat on the shoulder. are we done with this? no, we are not done with this. there is one more handshake.

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for fast pain relief. tylenol® . to those eagle i'd viewers who might have been wondering why i never mentioned the white house white house -- white house white out, it would be better if i didn't get caught over it. that was behind me for the majority of the show. that storm that was hyped me. yeah, i noticed it. i just didn't want to get distracted by it. and look now, it's like clear. it's not so bad. thanks to our panel. maria, reverend al sharpton and

susan -- >> even oh jose. i can't talkas names it is tri and i'm leaving now. that does it for this hour. mtp daily with my friend chuck todd starts right now. chuck, it is so nice to see you. >> well, it's nice to see you. ic report it's raining and it's going to be raining a lot here later in case you're wondering. all right. if it's friday, who else was in the room where it happened? tonight, yet another after shock of the trump junior meeting. >> this has got another disturbing turn of events. >> why are we just now learning that an exsoviet counter telgts offer was also there? >> plus, courting governors on trumpcare. >> as a former gofrp or myself, i know just how important health care is to each and every one of you as you lead your states. >> are republican gover