susan -- >> even oh jose. i can't talkas names it is tri and i'm leaving now. that does it for this hour. mtp daily with my friend chuck todd starts right now. chuck, it is so nice to see you. >> well, it's nice to see you. ic report it's raining and it's going to be raining a lot here later in case you're wondering. all right. if it's friday, who else was in the room where it happened? tonight, yet another after shock of the trump junior meeting. >> this has got another disturbing turn of events. >> why are we just now learning that an exsoviet counter telgts offer was also there? >> plus, courting governors on trumpcare. >> as a former gofrp or myself, i know just how important health care is to each and every one of you as you lead your states. >> are republican governs the

key to flipping senate hold outs. and, we'll always have paris. exactly how long does it take for two fds to shake hands? i think this is the beginning of a beautiful teeth gritted friendship. this is mtp daily and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington. yes, it's a little rainy. if it's friday it means there are shocking new details about that bombshell meeting with russia that the white house did not tell us about. folks, this week has been a giant pr political and possibly legal disaster for this administration. today we learn that there was yet another person in that meeting or maybe two people or maybe three. we know one of them was a former soviet intelligence officer who says he brought documents mentioning clinton to the meeting. here is what else we know. the trump campaign was told it was a meeting about dirt on

hillary clinton. the issue of u.s. sanctions against russia was brought up during the meeting. so was the subject of dirt on hillary clinton. you got all that? that in itself is the classified hurricane this administration is now grappling with. and to make matters worse, their responses this week have proven to be incomplete at best and untrue at worst. when word of the meetings existence first broke last weekend, donald trump jr. in consultation with the president and the white house on air force one, said it was primarily about adoption policy, but that's it. >> it was a very short meeting. it was a meeting apparently about russian adoption, and after about 20 minutes the meeting ended, and that was the end of it. >> there was certainly no mention of russian dirt on hillary clinton as part of a conversation about easing russian sanctions which was holding up u.s. adoptions. then we learned that the trump campaign took the meeting after being promised russian dirt on hillary clinton. we also learned that they talked

about some russian sanctions too. but really, that was it. >> the comments people are making about any type of information on hillary clinton were vague. they were meaningless. others exited the meeting very quickly. the meeting itself was very brief. there was no information given, there was no action taken, there was no followup. >> there was certainly no mention of the russian lawyer being part of a government backed effort to support trump and incriminate clinton. on tuesday we learned they were explicitly told the russian lawyer was part of a government backed effort to support trump and incriminate clinton. really, really, that's it. >> so as far as you know, as far as this incident is concerned, this is all of it? >> this is everything. this is everything. >> there was certainly no mention of a former soviet kourpt intelligence officer also in the meeting. today we learned that a former soviet counterintelligence officer was also in the meeting. really, r5e8, really, that's it. white house again dismissed the

story this morning, insisting, quote, we've been forthcoming since the very beginning, unquote. there was certainly no mention of other people accompanying the russian lawyer and the former counter tell us officer. then trump junior's attorney told us here at nbc news that there was another person in the meeting or maybe two. but really, really, really, really, really, that's it. oh, and to top it all off, the president's outside lawyer responded to a critic by sending an obscene message in writing. and what do we see today, shake ups in both mr. trump's and jared kushner's legal terms. various jusksz and zraktsz by the president himself about this meeting. >> nothing happened from the meeting. but it's very standard where they have information and you take the information. >> i think from a practical standpoint, most people would have taken that meeting. somebody said that her visa or her passport to come into the country was approved by attorney

general lynch. now, maybe that's wrong. i just heard that a little while ago, but i was a little surprised to hear that. so she was here because of lynch. >> and as we told you yesterday, here is what trump seems to be saying with that. nothing happened, but it's okay if something did happen in a totally appropriate meeting with someone i'm surprised was ever allowed into the country. oh, by the way, by democrats. but that's it, really. i'm joined now known intelligence and national security reporter. all right, ken. even though we were trying to lay this out very step by step here for folks to keep up where we started on sunday afternoon and where we are today, do we know everybody that was in that meeting and do we know at least the number of people who were in this meeting at this point? >> chuck, we don't know either fact. there has been reports just in the last hour of a name of a translator who may or may not have been at that meeting. nbc news has not been able to confirm those reports.

we're reaching out to this person. and there's also some evidence that there was yet another unnamed person in the meeting who was not the translator nor the russian lobbyist, nor the russian lawyer. so there's still things to be learned about this meeting, chuck. but the larger question, really, in my mind, and has been all day, is what explains the disconnect between the very specific promise of russian help from the ago alarry afamily which don't forget was in business with the trump family made via e-mail and this kind of nothingburger of a meeting as described by both the russian side and the trump side. they both tell it the same way. >> right. now, you helped break this story this morning about the counterintelligence officer. at the time we weren't ready to name him. now we have. ver knock ak mention. i hope i have pronounced his name correctly. tell me more about him. >> he is a classic washington operative. you and i know people like this around town. he was a lobby igs. he was born in russia.

he did serve some time in the soviet military where he did a counterintelligence job. i wouldn't make too much of that. he came to the united states. he became a citizen. he's kind of known as pay fixer. he's been called the hired gun. he works in the shadows. he does political work, corporate tell us work. and he is definitely lobby i had on maf of some causes that have been favorable to vladimir putin. and most specifically this magnitsky act sanctions case where he and this russian lawyer who attended the meeting have been arguing against the law against the sanctions and against is the story that led congress to pass that law, and that's what they say they were presenting to the trump administration and also as part of that they were talking about some what they viewed as shady contributions to the dnc that they thought trump folks might be interested in. the trump people say they weren't interested, that it was, as i said, a nothingburger. >> now, there has now been reports that they left some documents with donald trump jr. and the campaign, but there's

been some confusion about what exactly they left. was it treasure troef, was it a two page deal? what was it? what do we know? >> well, the lawyer told nbc news, in that exclusive interview earlier this week that they brought with her a two page document that kind of summarized all this criticism of the magnitsky act, sanctions issue and as as one small part of that that referred to some shady money going to the dnc and she wasn't clear whether she left the document with them or showed them the document. now, in subsequent accounts that were not the russian american lobbyist has given to over news organizations, that story has gotten amped up a little bit and he's portrayed it as a more substantive thing. but either way, it doesn't seem to have been the kind of derogatory information that the ago her off's seem to be promising in that e-mail exchange. >> all right. i'm sure in the next 30 minutes or so we might get yet another update on what we know about this meeting. >> good bet. >> thanks very much. let me bring in tonight's panel.

welcome all. and walter, there's sort of the a rule in town about crisis management. when you have bad news, get it out, get it all out, oh, by the way, get it all out quickly. >> that's not the case. in fact, they seem to be doing everything -- it's like opposite day. let's do it the exact wrong way and then try to figure it out as we go along. the fact that we're on day six of this story is pretty remarkable, and it's clear that we could be on day seven, eight, nine and ten. and it's also clear that whether we're talking about don junior in this e-mail in this meeting, we know that there are going to be more stories coming out in the next few weeks that may have nothing to do with this actual meeting, but may have other meetings maybe that jared kushner took or that other members of the trump administration when they were on the campaign took. the idea that -- and tray gowdy,

the congressman from sk made this clear the other day. just put everything out there today. this idea that you would still at this time be battling the question of transparency is remarkable to me. >> yet they don't. they don't put everything out, and that's the -- i mean, that's the big question, right. and, look, i know a lot of people, including a lot of conservatives, charles kraut harm who wrote this morning, ross dof fit from "the new york times" who wrote yesterday, people who said well, you know, this whole collusion thing, this is kind of far-fetched. >> no there there yet. >> right. there are all sorts of problems with trump and the trump white house, but it was hard for people to imagine that they would actually take a meeting after getting an e-mail saying, hey, look, i've got some dirt on hillary clinton from the russian government which wants to help you beat her in the election. >> right. >> and the response would be i love it, come on over. that's -- that was really

unthinkable for a lot of people, yet it happened. >> and the good news about this nightmare, and it is a nightmare for republicans and the trump administration, it's driving home an old rule. if you remember guy rich i's movie snatch. he's asked if is he has anything to declare in customs. ic declare don't go to england. don't take meetings with foreign nashlgs and a whole generation is learning this. >> is it possible that the reason for the piece meelg of it is they haven't done the basics yet. i don't think the basics have been done like -- >> that's scary. >> tell us everything -- it's possible everybody else knows. >> the fact that we're still -- that jared kushner is amending, once again, his -- and how many more things did he amend to this? multiple. >> a had you been -- supposedly a hundred different foreign contacts. >> right. so, look, we all know during the campaign and right in the

immediate aftermath of the campaign, nobody expected that donald trump was going to win the nomination. they weren't prepared to be the general election candidate and when they did, when they weren't prepared to make the transition into the white house, that was very clear. but at some point, with all of this swirling around, you should say i should probably get somebody around me who knows how to do this and who can help us in a world we don't know anything about. >> do we think that the legal shake ups today, and by the way, i have a statement now, who is jared kushner's attorney, and this is what we know that there's -- seems to be a change in who is the lead attorney now for jared kushner. she's of course i'm still part of hids team. as we have stated once bob mueller and three of our partners left the firm, we advised jared to get independent legal advice and referring to us as counsel. as a result of this process jared decided that abby would represent limb in the russia related inquiries. we are currently helping an by team. we will continue to work on the matters. >> abby team is abby lowell is

well-known as the best lawyer for this situation. >> you're dealing with the government, you're fighting the government, you get abby lowell. >> those two are the dream team. and so, yes, they're upping their game. what is scary is that they haven't done the vet and that there are more meetings bus the cumulative effect of more meetings would be devastating of anyone to excuse this as inexperience. >> this, i tell you, though, and we're going to get into this a lot on sunday, about ut this feels like this is a significant meeting now. and whether it was or wasn't, and they keep trying to say it wasn't, obviously the way this meeting has been -- but you line it up with the timeline and suddenly -- if you're bob mueller, it gives you circumstantial evidence to prove they wanted to collude. >> absolutely it does. it gives you that. just off the bat. and then it gives you that whole e-mail chain that has little arrows pointing in vaergs

directions. so there's a reference at one point that makes it sound as if there were a phone call, for example, perhaps between gold stone and donald trump jr. so you find out about the phone call. you find out about all these people in the meeting, we're up to eight now, i guess. you know, it's -- >> one thing that ken said is don't make too much of the fact that he was a former soviet counterintelligence. that's all that i've heard all day long. okay. let's put that aside. he's american. >> by the way, we've been wanting to understand motive a little bit better on putin's part. and i am in some ways the best thing to happen in this part of the scandal is people are learning about this act and what this was about. and this was a punishment. >> yes. >> putin basically the entire relationship with the u.s. changed with the passage of this law. >> yeah. >> and he has been obsessed with it because it basically exposed him as an ol i gark and he's been trying to punish the united states since.

>> that is a bill deal. but i still think for most americans it still comes back to we know why putin wouldment to have this influence. the question has always been yes, but would the trump campaign actually collude with them to do something. look, we still don't have the answer to this. i don't think the four page e-mail is going to give us legal el-- it's still not clear. but to eugene's point, we are only seeing four pages of e-mails. what bob mueller has, what the congressional committees have who are investigating this, they've got a whole lot more that we don't know anything about. now, maybe it may be exculpatory and this is going to lead to no legal election. >> it's a long road to espn age. >> you picked up the papers this morning -- you don't pick up the papers, but you go through. before i fell asleep and i saw plit co, jared kushner complaining about the white house not happening and somewhere else trump's legal team complaining about not getting paid. i mean, it seems like the white house itself is toxic.

>> well, it's in chaos because you have a story a day, a crisis a day and the president is trying to do macron. but i point out, i want to go back it's a long way to espionage. there's a lot of time to recover. and more importantly, they have to get ready for sl usc 1001. when any of the administration ask specific questions they're all under penalty of perjury if they answer even one thing wrong. and so goes to go on for years. >> and this is -- comes back to the issue of where it sounds like the legal teams were fighting over jared kushner and donald trump have to figure out how to create a firewall between them on this. >> exactly. they can't just -- kushner can't just drop into the oval office and have a chat with the boss about this. >> it's probably in the best interest of the president to get kushner out of the west wing, but then that action in itself would look -- becomes. >> it becomes a story. >> it feels like he's trapped here. >> we'd love to hear abby lowell talking to him. obviously we'll never hear that

about the advice. because a criminal defense lawyer would probably be advising the client to leave. jared kushner probably doesn't want to leave because he wants to bring peace to the middle east. but your lawyer is probably saying leave. >> it's just -- it would be much easier. but they've never taken the easy z way out. >> no. somehow i don't think they will. >> yeah. all right, guys. stick with us. i am curious how much blame does russia get if health care goes down? pornd that question the next time we see you. coming up, you heard donald trump jr. say his meeting was about adoptions. well, when the russians say adoptions, they really mean something else. we're going to explain. and we're going to have much more on the unfolding of the scandal sunday on "meet the press." we're still going to talk some health care as well. senate majority whip john cornyn joins me exclusively as the man who has got to count the are votes to see if they can get that bill through. that's this sunday on your local nbc station.

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welcome back. you are looking live at the second best fireworks display on either e earth. it's at the eiffel tower in celebration of bass steel day. a little fun rivalry there. earlier day, of course, president trump was the guest of honor. french president emmanuel macron stood with president trump. in addition to marking the storming of the bastille prison, this parade also come mem rated the united states entering into world war one alongside france. in their initial meetings mr. trump and mr. maulk had stiff exchanges that seemed to amplify their often opposing political views. but both emphasized their personal friendship during this trip. today the two world leaders engamd in a possible record setting handshake down, if you will. hands clachd, fingers locked,

macron, trump. they held on for longer than we have time to show you. 29 seconds in all if you really want to watch it. but the patient fist grip had to eventually come to an end. president trump had a plane to catch. we'll have more right after the break.

. welcome back. as we now know from the e-mails released by donald trump jr., what end from the meeting which someone described as a russian government attorney was evidence that would incriminate hillary clinton. what he got from that meeting apparently is less clear, but the trump team insists the meeting was all about one thing. >> it just was sort of nonsensical and then quickly went on to, you know, a story about russian adoption and how we could possibly help. >> the meeting was about the adoption issue, so that was a corrects statement he made. that's all it was about. >> as i see it, they talked about adoption, and some things. adoption wasn't even a part of the campaign. >> if the crux of this meeting was really all about adoption,

so what, right? that seems like an innocuous issue, but it's a lot more complicated han that. in 2012 president obama signed what was called the magnitsky act, a sanctions law that targeted specific russian officials for human rights abuses. in retaliation, vladimir putin halted all u.s. adoptions of russian or fans, which is how we get back to the issue of adoptions. here is how "the new york times" puts it. from the russian perspective, whether the younger mr. trump and his associates knew it at the time or not, the issue of adoptions and sanctions are so linked as to practically be synonymous. hello, sir. >> nice to be with you. let me start with this issue of the magnitsky act and when it was passed and why it is so infewer trade vladimir putin. >> well, it is clearly was a

water shed because it identified really a vulnerability of his regime, how he is treating disdents and provided a mechanism to hold people to account within his administration who participated in any way in this, you know, really murder of magnitsky, who was denied medical assistance for a year and died in jail. and this, aim sure if you're vladimir putin, is the most extreme form of intrusion into the internal affairs of another country. actually providing a vehicle to designate those officials who were involved in magnitsky's arrest and captivity and treatment during the time he was in prison. >> now, you identified it as a vulnerability and in fact, some have said that his inability to

stop this suddenly made some ol i gorks that he had been friendly with, think, wait a minute, you don't have the pull that you said you'd have? you could do this and suddenly he feared that some of these guys could turn on him? >> i'm not sure how serious that is. it's just a vehicle that would continually keep that issue alive, continually point that out in a way that he particularly found unfair. and, of course, being vladimir putin, he then had his own list of officials that he sanctioned. >> right. >> for various sorts of activities. rationale is not clear. and, of course, he pulled adoption using in addition an incident where a russian adopted child was probably abused by his american parents. >> is this fair to say that this -- the ultimate motivation here, then, right, this russian

interference campaign in our election, that it truly was this incident that sort of triggered it and then the subsequent sort of pile ons that it got worse and worse and worse? >> i think vladimir putin is -- we're back in an eatological struggle. it's not the cold war. but we are in an etological struggle and president putin is trying to discredit western ideals of democracy and freedom and the best way to do it is if he can discredit our system. and that's really what is going on here. and you see it in his interference. if he can -- you know, for his objectives, if he can sow chaos and show disarray in the political system and put himself at the center of the news every day in this country, as he has been, this is an enormous success for russia and for

putin. for him it sends a message to russians that russia is back, it's at the center stage. and secondly, it's part of a campaign of discrediting us. he basically wants to show that our system is no better than his. >> right. it's always been what aboutism. >> right. so we targeted a group of individuals that are close to him, he's going to target a group of individuals close to the u.s. administration. he really wants to show a moral he kwifs at least, and if he can discredit american freedom and democracy, so much the better. >> i'm not asking you to know the details on the security clearance process about jared kushner, but you had to get a security clearance to be national security advisor. >> sure. explain the form a little bit and explain the issue of why you have to identify any foreign contacts you may have had over a certain period of time? why is that so important. >> well j the concern is that you might be an agent of a

foreign power and that there might be a relationship that either you've been paid to serve the foreign power or there may be something that is done that the foreign power can use to blackmail you to cause you to betray your confidence -- your commitment and your loyalty to the united states. and so what they try to do is they get a list of all the foreign travel, all the foreign trims you've ever taken, where were you, how long were you there, what business you were doing and any contacts you had with foreigners, which if you're in the business of foreign -- >> i was just going to say, how do you fill that form out? >> it's pretty tough. and if you travel to conferences and the like, as a lot of us do, you know, your form gets to be pretty long. >> who polices this? who decides ultimately? is is it the fbi -- the president can decide who seize classified information at the end of the day. that i understand that that's in the poir of the presidency. but setting that aside, who is

sort of the intermediaries here? >> well, you know, when you submit your form, someone will then come and interview you, and they will ask you about anything that seems problematic with respect to your form. and one of the problems is really whether the people that are reviewing that form know enough about the kinds of lives people lead who are, you know, seeing foreigners and going to conferences and all the rest so that they're really able to identify within all the long list of trips and contacts what might be problematic. >> it's usually an fbi agent, right? because i've gotten calls -- >> fbi or a contract person. >> i've gotten kwauls sort of saying, hey, so-and-so says they know you, do you know this person type of a thing. >> look, i think, you know, and this is a risky thing to say, but i think at some point we need to ask ourselves and someone needs to step back and say, is this really the most effective tool for doing what the purpose of this process is,

identify people who have vulnerabilities that mapgs them liable to be husd as a foreign agent. that's the goal. and i think in some measure it's become a very bur accurateic exercise. someone needs to step back and say is this the best way really to defend the country and ensure that the people acting on its behalf are not vulnerable. >> all right. i've run out of time. i'd like 16 other topics. but fortunately,y get to that. interesting, rare rex tillerson interview expressing a little truss strags. we'll get to that later. >> good to be here. >> stay with us tonight. richard joins u.s. troops in northern iraq and reports from the front lines of the battle for mosul. that's tonight at a special time, ten p.m. eastern. and still ahead, are u.s. governors the life line trumpcare needs? wait, what, what happened? i was having a good round, and then my friend, sheila,

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. still ahead on mtp daily the state of the healthcare bill may lie with what governors think. >> thanks, chuck. the dow and s&p notched new record highs. the dow gains 84 points. the s&p adds 11. the nasdaq is up 38. u.s. industrial production rose for a fifth straight month, up .4 pirs in june. the number was bol sterd by a

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welcome pack. stop me if you've heard this one before. majority leader mitch mcconnell says the senate will be voting on a republican healthcare bill next week. but to get the bill passed mcconnell needs to persuade senators to get on board. alaska's lisa measure cow ski. about 35,000 has cans gained medicaid coverage from the expansion. until total about -- the new senate healthcare bill would cut federal funding for the medicaid

expansion. republicans know nor measure cow ski is in a pretty tough spot so they've put a curve out that could get alaska hundreds of millions in extra dollars in health care funds. she says she wants to talk to folks back home before she makes a final decision on how to vote. but before this carve out was created, she had said she wasn't going to get bought off very easily. one of the folks she's sure to talk to is the governor of alaska. bill walker. joining me from providence, rhode island, i should let the audience know you are america's only independent governor and appropriately, you're not wearing red or blue. you're wearing purple. so welcome to the show, sir. >> thank you very much. >> let me ask you your initial reaction to the new version of this health dare bill and specifically your reaction to this carve out that will benefit alaska specifically. >> well, it's a bit of the

process that concerns me. yes, part of the insurance will benefit alaska, but it's really the medicaid part that concerns me, the long-term, as you appropriately stated. one in four alaska answer are receiving some method of medicaid benefits. so it's really the whole package i'm concerned about and it's coming awfully quick at it and so if it is not a way to pause it, i guess i would like to see it split apart in some way so that the medicaid is taken out of the insurance side of it. so there's really two bujded together and i think that's a concern for me zbloor i saw that that senator lisa measure cow ski said something similar this week, that she wishes they would put the medicaid out. have you spent any time with them yet, either one of them and if so, what's the case they make to you to be more optimistic about this bill? >> well, i have spent time with both of them, but not

necessarily on thisic it issue. i did speak with secretary price about this and, again, conveyed my concern that i've just stated that, you know, we're concerned about the -- on the medicaid a fairly significant rewrite of medicaid and a process that really doesn't go through the normal process for a bill to be written for input and analysis to be done. you know, i haven't -- in fairness, i've not seen the scoring yet, which we'll see that next week, but just a general concern, i'm a process person and i'm concerned about the process that we're using. >> great obamacare in alaska. has this been a good thing, bad thing? does it work? just give me the basics here. what's your take? >> well, i think it was an improvement, but i think it certainly can be improved upon. and we certainly saw certain areas the increase in premiums. you know, we do have the highest cost of health care in the nation by a significant margin. you know, when you call an ambulance in some states, they go a couple miles. in alaska you call an ambulance,

it might be a med i vac to get out. could be a cost of 50,000 to 150,000. so alaska is very unique in many regards, so we try to take that into consideration. >> what is something you say it could be improved upon. so if obamacare ends up staying in place, what changes do you need to make it work better? >> well, we need to make sure we have something that will bring down our costs and so we're looking at certainly doing things internally as a state because we feel that's certainly our obligation, but also areas that the federal government can help as well. you know, we don't have a lot of choices in alaska on insurance coverage. we only have one carrier. so that's a concern as well. so there certainly could be some improvements that could allow more competition in that area. >> i was just going to say, though, i've got actually close relatives in ang rage and one of the obvious things that he always tell us me is like, look, it's not just the insurance choice issue.

it's access to basic health care, specialists. there may only be one or two, and they can charge whatever they want. >> you know, we do have -- unfortunately, we do have that situation. we have a lot of people that it's been actually cheaper to go to seelgts for certain procedures than to have them done in alaska. we hate to see that kind of outsourcing of medical services, but it's not a real competitive market in some of our specialty services that's for sure. >> bottom line, are you going to ask senators -- and by the way, dan sullivan has not said he's a definite yes on this. i know most people think he's more likely to volt for it than senator measure cow ski. what are you going to ask them to do? do you want them to vote on this or not? do you want them to vote yes or not? >> well, what i'm going to say to them and they're a lot closer to it than i am obviously because they have access to information i don't have access. my whole thing is whatever is done it doesn't hurt alaska answer. >> and what does that mean in this case?

does that mean more guaranteed on the medicaid side or from what you've seen, is this not good enough for what you need? >> well, i don't want to see alaska yans lose coverage. when i expanded medicaid about 40,000 alaska yans received benefits. so i want to milwaukee sure we don't lose that. >> and do you think right now that that would be the case or not or you don't know yet? >> i don't know yet. i don't know the specifics of whether that's the case or not. but that's just the lit mus test that i have, let's make sure whatever happens, it doesn't hurt alaska yanls. >> all right. govern walker. like i said, america's only independent governor. it's worth highlighting that. >> thank you so much. >> all right. up next, can you go four or four in our ty cobb questions? >> thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory.

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delicious pasta marinara. but birds eye made it from zucchini. mmm! bird: mashed potatoes and rice. but made from cauliflower. looks like i need a fork! oh, no. (giggling) bird: new birds eye veggie made. so veggie good. request. welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with ti cobb. no, not that ti cobb. that ti cobb. awe, maybe both ti cobs. questions time. if you said the ty cobb which ti cobb had a lifetime batting average of 366. which one was a great pitcher and a home run hitter as many reporters noted today? trick question, neither. the player was a stra fielder who averaged about five home runs a year.

big stolen base guy and hitter, guys. finally, which one has been compared on twitter to wol ford brimly. that's a gimme. turns out though the two are related, but there is no evidence at all that tie cobb the lawyer is the violent racist that ti cobb the player of course was and unlike the player, our guess is the lawyer probably at least in this case isn't a lefty. we'll be right back. award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century. this july visit your local volvo dealer to receive sommar savings of up to $4,500. this july visit your local volvo dealer adapted to my weight and shape, has

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there's nothing more important so when i need to book a hotel, i want someone who makes it easy. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. visit booking.com. booking.yeah! time for the led panel is back. hugh, you have made no secret that you will publicly chas ties the republicans that vote no on health care if they do that in the united states senate. you've made that crystal clear. if this goes down, though, how much responsibility is on the white house? >> i don't think much. i think this is on the republican senators. you cannot campaign to repeal and replace for eight years and

win three out of four elections and then not open debate. it will be a tie tanic amount of hypocrisy. >> you'd rather them open the debate and vote no than not -- >> yes. you cannot not debate this. but the hypocrisy would be monument al. >> it's interesting to me how many people believe that the decision about bringing the vote to the floor is the vote to watch. that why would -- let's say if cap i toe, portman, heller, murkowski, they all decide to put out a joint statement, none of them want to own, this bill isn't ready. >> right. >> this bill isn't ready. what is the impact of that? >> well, it kills the bill, number one. and number two, look, i think that not voting to repeal and replace obamacare is bad for republican incumbents because they're going to get prime aerd.

what i'm struck with and granted governor he doesn't want to see any of it go away, but nobody is excited about this bill. you don't find anybody that says it is all, look, it's not what i'm looking for, but i'm going to support it. >> there has been not one positive message. >> pat toomey might be the only one that's happy because he got that one provision on medicaid. >> but we learned this in 2009, 2010. democrats spent so much political capital getting that across the finish line. people are going to be so excited they're going to have access to health care and by the way, it doesn't get kplemtd any way for another few years. so people aren't going to feel immediate impacts. guess what? republicans spent like billions of dollars over the course of two different campaigns -- it wasn't billions, but millions of dollars saying that obamacare is terrible terrible terrible terrible. democrats never made the case for why it was good.

and this is what should worry republicans right now. i write about it this week, but just in the last couple of months in those states that you have been mentioning where they're the swing senators, almost 6 smlds has been spent on ads saying this bill is terrible, vote against it, senator. there has not been one piece of advertising saying why it's good, not one. >> strategicly whoever is in charge of this, this has been a big bung elit seems. >> the messaging has been poor. put the politics aside. on the policy, the people who are excited are people like me who believe in the delve lugs of authority to local governments to improve and kbroe vice in the delivery of health kaish. >> so there are -- >> no, no, no, will -- >> senator x. -- >> vice president y. >> will the members of congress

because they have to be able to sell this back home once they make that vote, can they make that case, because i think you're right, i think you can have an actual debate between do you want to stick with obamacare, which people didn't really love, three something new which people don't really love and according to polls love even less, make a real argument or say we don't even want to talk about it at all, let's go talk about tax reform instead and the other time is going to spend all that time labeling it terrible. >> i agree. governor walker noted that premiums in alaska have gone through the roof. people know the argument because it hits them in the pocketbook. if premiums go down, they win. but if they don't do anything, the republicans lose so badly. >> gene, i read a great stat today s. somebody said we've been having this knock down drag out ideological debate -- if you

are the party in power and you own the health care issue and you do something with it, you are responsible for everything that goes wrong with everybody's health care. >> aren't you responsible -- >> don't the republicans own it already? no, they absolutely do own it already. >> do you think they own it if it's obamacare in place no matter what? >> yes, 100%. they're in power. they own the issue and so if -- whether or not you were directly affected by obamacare changes or medicaid changes, your premiums go up, are your coverage goes down, you're going to be mad, and you're going to be mad at the republicans because they're the ones who have the are power. >> and i also think so much of when we'd be on the campaign trail and lichbl to voters who are upset about health care prices, it's not that they were on the exchanges. this goes to the bigger economic question which is their wages haven't kept up with health care costs. right. which isn't about obamacare, which obamacare was supposed to help with, but they may be on employer -- >> do you know how many big employers have they say we've

given races except all are the money goes to health care. >> that's right. so that they aren't directed impacted by the obamacare exchanges, but they know that their health care is not getting better. >> there you go. health care and russia. just two very tiny stories we have to cover this week. thanks, guys. have a good weekend. catch his show tomorrow morning at 8 apple eastern. after the break, president clinton finds himself in a familiar position. between the bushes.

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to in case you missed it presidents 42 and 43 developed a bit of a friendship over the years. >> why do i have a friendship with him? s he is called a brother with a different mother. he hangs out more than i do. >> in case you missed it when they spoke together yesterday there were light hearted moments. >> the best thing can happen to you is to be consistently underestimated. >> perhaps the best part came off stage. this picture, president clinton peeking out between statues of 41 and 43. the caption was everything is bigger than texas. maybe he is trying to hide in

the bushes or show a run for his money with a new show between two bushes. be honest, you would watch that. we'll be be back monday with mtp daily. sunday catch meet the press. have a great weekend. breaking news, the lawyer at is enter speaking out about what she was doing there telling the wall street journal she wasn't working with russian authorities but she was meeting with russian authorities regularly. she has been spreading information on a long time nemesis of putin. he has made it hiss mission that enrage putin. i will speak to