voting, it's a great plan. we had 54 people. we had four knows. now, we might have had another one in there. the vote would have been pretty close, if you look at it, 48-4. that's a pretty impressive vote by any standard. >> impressive vote by any standard, except for the standard of actually getting your agenda passed. stop us if you've heard this bv before, this morning the effort of health care has totally collapsed. we have mike barnicle, msnbc's steve kornacki, mark halperin and policy editor sam stein and

capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt. joe, what you do you think the biggest agenda politically, domestically, in terms of health care? was it the failure of the plan itself? >> yeah, it's really hard to ignore what donald trump said in that clip coming in, bragging about having a 48-4 record with republicans. that's not how it works and anybody that's ever been in washington for more than a day understands that's not how it works. that's the tally of somebody who lost. that would be like hillary clinton going around saying, and i'm sure she does to friends, i really won because i got 3 million more votes. that's not how things are scored in the 2016 election and it's certainly not how things are run in this health care debate. the fact is donald trump did a terrible job selling health care because he didn't really try to sell health care. he abused house republicans that went out on the line for him

earlier in the year and then went out and talked about how mean that plan was and didn't give senate republicans any reason to believe he wouldn't throw them under the bus at the same time. constantly distracted, not really focused. a lot of them complained he didn't understand what was inside the bill so he couldn't really rally the base to support it. he can talk about 58-4, he 0-1 passing something he said was going to be easy. >> we'll come back to that battle in a second but we've first learned of a second previously undisclosed meeting between president trump and vladimir putin at the g-20 meeting. the "new york times" confirms

that trump got up to meet privately with vladimir putin. trump approached putin alone and spoke for about an hour with a kremlin interpreter translating for both. attendees say they found it out that trump gravitated towards putin at the dinner. the dinner was included on the public schedule but was not open to the news media. putin and trump had spent over two hours in a bilateral meeting earlier that day. there is no official readout of their second talk because no american official other than the president was involved. in response the white house said president trump spoke with many leaders during the course of the evening and that he had gone offer to first lady melania

trump, who was seated next to putin where they spoke briefly to the russian president. sean spicer said it was pleas t pleasantri pleasantries. president trump reacted with anger, calling the report sick, insisting the press knew and said "even a dinner arranged for a top 20 leaders in germany is made to look sinister." >> joe, i'm not trying to make it look sinister. i don't know who is. we're just wondering what happened there. >> it's the president himself to made this look sinister. many are deeply concerned that the president of the united

states has now spent three hours with vladimir putin, someone he's accused of having an abnormally relationship with, an unusual add miration for and no he's had three hours of meeting without a national security adviser by his side. and this one-hour meeting, this side meeting that the press did not know about, he actually spoke to vladimir putin with no american there, only an interpreter from the kremlin. i don't even know what to say, mark. how do you follow up a week where your son has been caught lying day in and day out, day in and day out and one of your top advisers has been caught lying, your attorney general has been

caught lying about meetings with russians, the vice president has been lied to repeatedly about meetings with russians. it goes on and on and on. and then he takes a meeting, which they don't tell the press and they doesn't give a readout to the press by himself and on an interpreter. >> if president obama had done this type of thing, there would be tons of concern about it. that meeting is now lost to history. a lot of foreign policy officials have said this is not good practice where the president doesn't even control the translation in any way. i'd like to think the president

will have someone at the dinner that speaks more than two languages and there's nothing the white house can to put to rest suspicions, nothing they can do. >> reporters, and our allies can safely assume the worst of donald trump and of vladimir putin. in the last meeting that donald trump had with russians and putin, he was talking to their foreign minister and ambassador to the west and talking about firing james comey saying he had gotten the pressure off of everybody because he had fired the nut case who was investigating donald trump's possible illegal ties with russia. so what are we to assume if not

the worst that he had this meeting, the white house didn't reveal it. once again we had to find out about it through third channels and there want even an american within earshot to listen what they talked about for an hour. >> one thing we don't have to accept is tomorrow marks the sixth-month anniversary of the trump administration. six months he's been president. prior to his assuming the presidency, a lot of people thought and would say the presidency would certainly change donald trump. well, it hasn't. it hasn't changed donald trump. now we have an administration with the russia stuff, with the meeting with putin, who he clearly has an attraction to, maybe because of putin's strength as a leader, who knows. we have the health care debacle and we have the fact that this administration is so far a mix of incompetence and indifference to almost everything before it.

>> i'm thinking of some of the things that might have foreshadowed this meeting. one is donald trump clearing the room for the meeting with james comey, the idea that he likes i think just given what he did in his past and given his nature, he likes this idea of one-on-one meetings where there can be no record, where nobody can say for sure this is what was said. i'm thinking of that in the context of the meeting and i'm thinking of the sensitivities of conversations he had with foreign leaders and finding some of those conversations leaked to the press. it was clear how much those leaks bothered him. it's clear he thought it might be a way without the press,

there's nobody in the room. i imagine this might be the thinking that's behind this. >> we're going to be hearing from ian bremer who broke the story to continue this disturbing report about the meeting. but now we turn to health care and the republican-led effort to overhaul obamacare seems to be on the verge of total and complete collapse. mitch mcconnell's push to repeal the health care law is on the brink of failure. they can only lose two senators from their caucus and already republican senator susan collins, shelley moore caputo and lisa murkowski are against repeal-only. despite concerns, leader

mcconnell says the party will proceed as planned. >> can he request of the president and the vice president and after consulting with our members, we'll have the vote on the motion to proceed to the obamacare repeal bill early next week. recent polling shows the plans put out among the republicans have been widely unpopular. and a new nbc news/wall street journal poll found in key counties that supported donald trump's democratic bid, only 12% support the president's health care bill. >> would you like to see more from the president on this? >> you know, i'd like to see a bill that people actually liked. i got to go.

>> kasie hunt, what's going on on capitol hill? it seeps almost demoralizing. >> reporter: i think republicans are very demoralized. i think the president and vice president, you heard mcconnell say it on the floor, have put it under incredible pressure to have his members vote on this. this is the way that president trump seems to have wanted to play it all the way along with congress, force them to do this thing. he tried to make paul ryan do it when he knew he wouldn't have the votes in the house. there was a very contentious lunch yesterday when republicans argued about what to do. and then mcconnell said sorry, we're going to go to the floor and vote on this. the repeal and replace, which has been the campaign mantra, that's over. now they're talking about repeal only, sort of trying to force democrats to the table.

but they don't have the support for that oot. as things continue as they are, mcconnell does hold the vote. these three women stand strong. that's going to be the final line in the sand. then the question will turn to chuck schumer and democrats to figure out if they can do some sort of fix for the individual markets. that's something both sides agree on. the insurance companies are basically starting to panic, more than they have already. many of them are starting to pull out of the markets. it's created so much uncertainty for them and for the individual americans who rely on these plans. mika. >> sam stein, there's not a lot of opportunity for republicans to move beyond this without getting the help of democrats. but as we talked about the repeal-only vote and donald trump trying to force the issue, he may find there are even more

republicans that are going to join the senators from west virginia and alaska and maine, who will all be rewarded politically, by the way, for voting against a repeal-on bill, a would new york according to the cbo 25 more million americans off of health care. they may find rob portman can't go there, that senators from pennsylvania and wisconsin can't go there. they may find a lot of other senators just are not going to vote for a straight repeal without any sort of safety net to pick up a lot of people in their home states. >> yeah, i'm not totally convinced that mcconnell is upset with this vote. it allows some members -- potentially vulnerable members to show that they were -- that they were for some form of health care replacement plan and not just for repeal. that could be politically advantageous, maybe not now but

down the road. the questions raised today are what happens next. kasie talked a little buiit abo whether democrats now come to the table. joe manchin has tried to start a bipartisan working group, but the big wild card here is donald trump. at the white house yesterday after this news broke that the health care bill was dead, trump himself said that he wanted now to let obamacare fail. as someone who administers the health care law, the hhs department, cms department administers law, there is a lot of operational control they can have to facilitate its failure. if you step back and think about it, it's a political strategy with a great morality deficit. they're saying we're going to allow people to suffer in the individual market, potentially in medicaid so we can compel democrats to come to the negotiating table. and they're being overt about

it. they're saying this is our strategy and we hope democrats feel enough pain to come to the table. if this is your strategy, how then do you pin it on the democrats? >> the president has invited all republican senators to the white house today for lunch. the president said yesterday he was disappointed with losing four republican votes and was frustrated with democrats. >> i'm certainly disappointed for seven years i've been hearing repeal and replace from congress, i've been hearing it loud and strong and when we finally get a chance to repeal and replace, they don't take advantage of it. i would say i'm disappointed with what took place. it will go on, we're going to win on taxes and infrastructure and lots of things we're doing. we had 52 people, we had no democrat support, which is really certainly that should be said. we should have had democrats

voting. this is a great plan for a lot of people. we are 52 people, we had four nos. we might have had another one in there but the vote would have been pretty close, if you look at it, 48-4, that's a pretty impressive vote by any standard and yet you had a vote of 48-4 or something like that and you need more? it's pretty tough. the way i look at it is in '18 we're going to have to get some more people elected. we have to go out and get more people elected that are republican and we have to probably pull in those few people that voted against it. i don't know, they're going to have to explain to you why they did and i'll sure they'll have very fine reasons but we'll have to get more republicans elected because we have to get it done. it would be nice to have democrat support but really they're obstructionists. they have no ideas, no thought

process. all they want to do is obstruct period. >> i'm struck with the 48-4 tally. it was a bad, blundering loss and you have to lay it at the feet of this white house, who came in, had a democrat being majority and republican minority and i'm curious what donald trump and the would expect democrats to do when they never reached out to the democrats one time to try to get them to support a health care bill and, in fact, donald trump was tweeting insults to the democratic minority leader chuck schumer, calling him a clown i think even before he was sworn into office. so also, of course barack obama

had the same experiences with democrats, george w. bush had the same experiences with democrats and blill clinton had the same experience with republicans. >> called him a clown and a cry baby. "the wall street journal" calling republican senators out by name and talking about this as an ep ic failure of historicl proportions that will have consequences for years to come. i think the notion that the senate could come up with a bipartisan deal that would then become law is folly. the more you let chuck schumer to write a bill, the more impossible it would be for paul

ryan to round up enough republicans to vote for it. this notion is now it's time to create a democratic bill. when you open the door and let che chuck schumer and nancy pelosi right, you will get closer to what the vast majority of democrats want. i think this is only to get tougher. i have no idea what they could possibly discuss at the white house today that would get them closer to the solution. >> i think they won't get closer to the solution. the president is going to hear a lot of people saying, steve kornacki, that they shouldn't put this bill on the floor for a vote. and side note on what mark said, donald trump tweets in 2012 said barack obama complained about not being able to pass bills because he had a democratic

majority for two years. "obama's complaint about republicans stopping his agenda in bs since he had full control for two years. he can never take responsibility." donald trump by donald trump's own standard is making bs arguments and he certainly of all people who have ever sat in that chair in the white house doesn't seem to be able to take full responsibility. but i want to talk about "the wall street journal" editorial and placing the blame on the republican party. steve, what i still don't understand is how it could be so obvious to outsiders, and we were all saying it on this show even before the house took the vote, that the more conservative you made the bill for the freedom caucus, the more conservative to moderate senators you lost when it went over to the senate. the more money you took away from medicaid for members of the

freedom caucus and to get ted cruz's vote and to get mike lee's vote, the more votes you lost from lisa murkowski and from susan collins and from other conservative/moderate senators. this was basic math. and i guess what i don't understand is, and it's of course -- i tell you hindsight is 20/20, i don't quite understand that republicans didn't figure it out a long damn time ago that they were never going to get the 50 votes. >> well, you just saw it. the final piece of this is once they don't have the votes to go forward on what the senate came up with, what was mitch mcconnell's last ditch effort, it basically what the far right was looking for, straight repeal. so it was sort of like a game of whack a mole. you knock it down over here, it

pops up over here. >> but, steve, we knew that months ago! that is basic political math. that is one plus one equals two. you pick up the freedom caucus, you're going to lose susan collins. you pick up the freedom caucus, you're going to lose probably murkowski and rob portman. they represent states that are far different than members of the freedom caucus. how could republican leaders on capitol hill not have known what was so obvious to everybody on this show three, for months ago? >> i suspect they knew it on some level but for seven years they made one central promise and every republican congressional come pain, every republican senate campaign and every republican presidential

campaign and that is they were going to repeal and replace obamacare. the rhetoric on this thing was as heated as we've seen on any issue. so finally they get that tree effecta, the white house, the senate, the house, they're in position to do it. drs has talked with a lot of urgency about the idea this is something they're going to get done. think they sort of plowed into it with the idea that maybe those vast differences they're talking about, screaming, hey, we're finally in position where when we can do it, we might sell put whatever deferences aside so we can fulfill it. i this they put home hope over any particular strategy on it. >> okay. wow. still ahead on "morning joe," one of the governors leading the opposition to the repeal effort, republican john kasich of ohio. blus democratic senators tim

kaine and chris mur fir joins us and up next, "time" columnist ian bremer who broke the news of the president's second secret sitdown with vladimir putin. we'll be right back. ♪ their experience is coveted. their leadership is instinctive. they're experts in things you haven't heard of - researchers of technologies that one day, you will. some call them the best of the best. some call them veterans. we call them our team.

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ambassador wendy sherman this thank you both for being with us. ian, i want to get more details on what the response was on what happened. how unusual is this? >> it's not unusual for the leaders to have pull-asides in the context of a summit but what is unusual is the length, the warmth in the context of what is already an unprecedented relationship between trump and putin and the context of the broader u.s.-russia relationship. many of the leaders that were in that room, including america's most important allies were quite surprised. they found it quite unusual, body chemistry, the fact it went on, and it reflected a much warmer relationship with putin

than he has with any other leader in the room. in the context of a president who already has unnerved a lot of world leaders making them wonder what extent is a trump administration committed to them, whether it's on security, trade or climate or what have you, that's where i think the true uniqueness of this comes along. >> of course it had to be disturbing when you had people who are democratically elected represents from countries, allies, and these allies doesn't get the same sort of -- i'm sorry, i'm having an ear piece problem here people just going to ask you a question. they don't get the same type of treatment that others do. ian, how disturbing is it to you and other members of the national security community that donald trump has now had three hours worth of meetings with vladimir putin and in those

three hours worth of meetings, he's not had one national security adviser, one person from national security staff there with him in three hours of meetings in a relationship that most of our foreign policy community finds troubling at the very least. >> well, it's pretty stunning. and i think in the context of the last couple days where we've heard from the russian foreign ministry that indeed they are moving and they are close to a deal where the united states would give back these two russian properties that they were engaged in surveillance of the united states on, engaged in activities on u.s. soil, it seems plausible, that was initially brought up and discussed in that private pull aside with trump. in the readout where at least rex tillerson was there, no such discussion. the official readout doesn't

matter if there's an hour conversation and the on people that know what happened are trump, putin and assumingly everyone in the kremlin because his translator was there but none of the white house advisers were read into this discussion until i'm told the news actually broke. so all of of think i think is quite surprising. >> how did that surprise you, no readout and no presence of -- >> the on translator is the russian translator. and president trump doesn't even know what went on in that meeting and that translator's life is on the line. that's president putin's guy and he's going to make sure whatever conversation happens really is for the president of russia's interest, not the president of the united states. i agree, if this was five or ten minutes, that's what you use these dinners for, to say hello,

but i would have much rather him had an hour with angela merkel who is running year or president macron. this is disturbing. >> we do not know what happened in that meeting but we do know that yesterday the president did sign off on the iranian treaty. with some reluctance you think? >> i think with considerable reluctan reluctance. my understanding is he really hammered his team to say how are we going to tell people this is a really bad deal, how are we going to push back against the iranians? >> there's no doubt they are doing -- the nuclear deal, they are complying with it. their verification and monitoring is really quite extraordinary, more than anywhere else in the world. so it was very hard for this

straight to say they weren't living up to the terms of the deal because they are. they're going to raise, pardon me, holy hell. all the members who put together this agreement to bafr about all of the sangss that were put on all the designations that went along with this certification. >> mika? >> and ian, i just want to go back to this meeting with putin and i wonder if there's anything of interest in terms of what happens here as it pertains to the russian investigation. are there requirements that there need to be roudouts, that if meetings there needs to be two we all may agree or disagree on whether or not this is deeply disturbing. i certainly think it is. but was any rule broken? >> no, i don't think so. and this precedent certainly with not having two translators in the room, it's extremely

unusual. president nixon would occasionally not have translators in for sensitive meetings from the u.s. side because he didn't trust the state department and believed they would be leaking that information that to necessarily draw a direct lynn to what trump was all about. i think with trump it's less nefarious than it is simply devil could care less the fact that -- the reason i know about this meeting is purely because america's found the fact of what president trump doing, not to him breaking any laws but at the first g-20 summit this guy has ever been in, he has no problem showing off. putin didn't come to him. he got up. he sits down next to putin, they're yuck it up.

after a day and a half of sum he didn't do that with anyone else ash lot of his allies and a lot people find that disturbing. >> coming up, the white house rolls out its pick for u.s. be a to it rash. and it's a familiar name, sort of. keel see you up next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ you were made to move. to progress. to not just accept what you see, but imagine something new. at invisalign®, we use the most advanced teeth straightening technology to help you find the next amazing version of yourself.

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the white house is is rolling out its nominee for ambassador to russia and it's a familiar name of sorts. back in march reports surfaced that a man named john huntsman would be tapped for the job. that's jon, j-o-j-o-n. but man who got the job apparently spells his name differently according to the

white house. the president's personal attorney general misspelled the word president in the opening line of a letter attacking james comey. a press release from may noted the president's desire for lasting peach. and a tweet misspelled the name of w.e.b. debois. and then the president tweets our our deepest apologizes for the earlier typo and president

trump's official inauguration portrait offered by the library of congress had a huge typo on it. the inspirational print reminds us that no challenge is "to" great. wow. it's spelled incorrectly. you might call all the spelling mistakes unprecedented. on the one hand we're having some fun here. i'm not having fun. to be honest, i just read that. this is just embarrassing. i think the press shop at this white house, the communication office is a horror show and it doesn't start and end with the spelling. joe? >> i think there are much bigger concerns. they're trying to get rid of the press briefings.

we could list more than this coming out of the press shop, maybe 40 or 50 or so. >> it's symbolic. >> it's symbolic on how sloppy they are. and let's look at the game we always would play when barack obama would do something and we would say imagine if a republican did this how badly they would have been attacked. well, now we can do it with this trump press shop and just say imagine if somebody that ran a press shop for any fortune 500 company or i dare say any mid-level company or even any small business had a press shop that kept putting out misspellings and seemed to be so sloppy. i'm sure the person running that press shop would be fired. it really does, again, not to overstate this, but it just shows a level of either incompetence or lack of professionalism coming out of

the white house. >> and the kind of professionalism we want as an example for our children if the white house is this sloppy. how do you tell a kid putting together a resumé it can have spelling mistakes in it. small things like typos, i don't minimize. they bother me as much as they bother mika. then you go to the attention to detail to pass a health care bill. and change agent, do things differently but you to spell things correctly and you have to talk to members of congress to figure out what they need to vote in your direction. >> that's a great point. and sam stein, not to bring up

alabama crimson tide football, i've seen the 60 minute profiles and all the profiles of nick saban, the way he keeps winning national championships, he's insane when it comes to the smallest of details. from the second the players come in to the second they hold up the national trophy -- i'm serious. you could say the same thing about john wood and you could say the same thing about great business leaders. they obsess over the small things. and if you're sloppy in the small things, you're sloppy in the big things. if you lie about the little things, you lie about the big things. if you have a press shop that is constantly misspelling things that your 12th grade teacher wouldn't put up with, then you have a president that didn't know any of the details of the health care bill or at least didn't know them enough to be able to sell them to his own base. >> yeah. i mean, i think the typos are ridiculous. i mean, they're stupid but

they're also insulting in a way. jon huntsman probably deserves a little bit better than that. but your point about details and being oriented specific toward details is a valid one. there's a reason you have procedures in place for how you talk to a world leader. that can be used against you down the road. there's a reason you hire health care policy wonks to help you craft a health care bill. so when you have trouble selling it, you can go to a senator and say this is what had will do for your district and you don't just speak in general terms and say it's going to benefit everyone when it wouldn't.mika, let's ta

culture for a minute. let's talk about the man whose name was misspelled that started the conversation, jon huntsman, very able governor, was a very able ambassador to china, even though donald trump attacked him. >> a very good man. >> donald trump attacked him and said he, quote, gave away china. i don't even know what that means is that like churchill saying mount baton gave away india? he was a great ambassador. i'm actually relieved to see that he -- it's possible he'll be ambassador to russia. that is good news in an administration that doesn't give us a lot of good news day in and day out. >> no, i agree completely. jon huntsman is a really good man, really good family and

really talented foreign policy representative for our country. i will say, though, in this meeting if it wasn't nefarious in any way and no one is making that leap, but the president again it might have been an inattention to detail, a lack of care for the way things are done but president trump exposed himself and our country in that meeting by going in there without a translator on our side, by going in there privately and now leaving putin with his own ability to translate what happened in there. he exposed himself. he does it all the time. and you wonder what he's thinking. up next in the word of one republican senator, quote, it's an insane process. "the washington post"'s bob costa explains how mitch mcconnell lost the health care fight and alienated his own members in the process. that's ahead on "morning joe."

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do you think he should stand in the east room and continue to bellow at the top of his lungs that there was no collusion? >> that's our guy. >> that's your guy. >> are you proud that's our president? he's all of our president. >> first of all i am proud he's the president. >> i'm talking about collusion. you know what i'm asking you. does he continue to say there was no collusion or did you advise him not to? >> i think he needs to get to the bottom of all this but the fact of the matter is that he knows he didn't collude and that's essentially what he's saying. >> wow. all right, chris christie on "deadline white house." steve kornacki, through all of this we cover stories we find shocking or disappointing or concerning, and yet the base, is it still with president trump, his base? >> i mean all the evidence points to, i mean you could make

a case the political divide in this country right now six months into the trump administration hasn't changed one bit from the 2016 campaign and i think the 2016 campaign in some ways is a really important point of reference just to keep in mind as we try to analyze what's happening with this presidency because i don't need to tell you guys i think everybody out there watching, this was a different campaign than we'd ever seen, donald trump went through about a dozen extinction level events as a candidate, was declared absolutely dead, paul ryan basically told republicans cut him loose, fend for yourselves. he won anyway with 90% republican support, 90% of republicans ended up with him. it becomes a point of reference for republican leaders in washington. if he survived all of that and kept my party with him why do i abandon him now. >> right. all right, coming up, the democrats' vice presidential nominee last year, senator tim kaine is standing by and

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with us today. we've had a lot of victories but haven't had a victory in health care. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, july 19th. winning. with us we have mike barnacle, steve kornacki, senior political analyst mark halperin, kasie hunt and political reporter for "the washington post" robert costa. joe, who is that star who said that, winning, and i think he was like busted for something. >> charlie sheen. >> charlie sheen. that's what he sounds like. >> well, i think charlie sheen would probably be deeply insulted by that, but let's go to bob costa and which talks about the state of things p that is an insult to charlie sheen,

but bob costa, let's go to you and kasie hunt on the hill and try to figure out sort of take the temperature of the republican party right now. the "wall street journal" correctly went after the republican party and yesterday or the day before after the president of the united states for all of their failures in passing this bill, or getting anything significant passed. what is the state of the republican party, the congressional caucus, right now? >> with regard to health care, joe, one lawmaker put it to me this way, it's almost like a groom after a long engagement who is starting to get second thoughts. the republican party made this promise long ago that they would repeal and replace the affordable fair act. now the law has become settled, rooted in many states they've become uncomfortable about what the consequences and costs would be of uprooting that law especially with so many republican governors saying they want to keep the medicaid

funding in place. those were just some of the forces that prevented this bill from coming to the floor. >> you know, kasie, during the campaign in 2016 i kept saying i thought medicaid would actually be an issue, it would be difficult for republicans to grapple with. actually it stopped being -- the medicaid expansion that the governors wanted but the guys in washington, women in washington didn't. but that got taken off the table by donald trump who promised to never cut medicaid. now all these massive medicaid cuts we see that medicaid does end up being the piece of legislation, the washington program that actually is dividing these republicans and stopping them from being able to pass a health care bill. >> the reality show, what the president was trying to get passed in congress directly contradicts the promises that he made on the campaign trail. he and mike huckabee fought about who was the first to say

don't cut medicaid. you saw it on the democratic side as well with the support for bernie sanders. they went full on populist and they got to washington, the president ran into congressional leaders. the cuts to medicaid, the changes to its long-term future that's a policy that mitch mcconnell, other conservative republicans have been trying to implement for a long time. i think that the central issue here is that they spent seven years using this as an opposition tool to go after president obama, and pat toomey went home to a town hall and said to all of his constituents, we didn't expect president trump to win the white house, and it turns out governing is different than opposing, and we're trying to feg thigure that out. we watched it play out in real time with disastrous results at this point for that particular republican project. >> calamatous. in a moment we'll go live to the white house for the latest on

the second previously undisclosed meeting. but first let's dig into exactly where things stand on the republican-led effort to overhaul obamacare. majority leader mitch mcconnell's latest push to repeal the health care law without an immediate replacement is already on the brink of failure. they can only lose two senators from their caucus, and already republican senator susan collins, shelly moore capito and lisa murkowski have come out against the repeal only plan and yesterday senator rob portman of ohio also released a statement saying i don't think it's appropriate just to repeal. we've also got to put a replacement in place. despite those concerns, leader mcconnell says the party will proceed as planned. now precious few legislative accomplishments, the president's self-proclaimed ability to make

deals is under question, after the failure of health care reform. the president did not embark on any major tourist to sell the plan. he gave very few interviews touting its virtue and talking about the details and the white house press team has mostly stayed off camera. yesterday he told the press he was disappointed at the outcome and republicans who were poised to vote no. >> i'm sitting in the oval office right next door, pen in hand, waiting to sign something, and i'll be waiting and eventually we're going to get something done and it's going to be very good. >> and yet the "new york times" cites a staffer who said the president was "growing bored" in selling the bill. and there's been some alarm at the level of surprise the white house experienced monday night, as support fell apart. and the president hosted senators who were expected to vote yes.

>> i was very surprised when the two folks came out last night, because we thought they were in fairly good shape, but they did and you know, everybody has their own reason. >> senator steve daines told "the washington post" the president talked about france and bastille day, it was loose as if trump sat down to dinner to talk about what's going and "the times" reports the president came off as fed up with the grind of pushing the legislation, pressing his aggravation that senator rand paul went on the sunday political shows to trash the bill. joe? i'm telling you, it feels like a night at mar-a-lago or some dinner with trump at trump tower or whatever where he's just, you know, playing around, talking

with people, not taking things seriously, kind of like floating above it all. >> yes. >> and then i still can't get over the word he used for republicans who didn't vote his way, using the word "disloyal." there's just a level of, a lack of seriousness here. >> well, it's not just a lack of serio seriousness. mark halperin, he really doesn't understand washington and nobody expected him to understand washington. he doesn't understand how to drive legislation. he doesn't understand how to push a bill. he doesn't understand how to promote a bill. nobody expected him to. he's never been in politics before. he was never in the minimum tear befo military before, never in the government before but he surrounded himself with people who may be good in other fields but are equally inept when it comes to figure out how to win in washington. the people that are closest to him in the white house have no idea, steve bannon goes and

insults congressmen and congr s congresswomen. donald trump talks about disloyalty, about primarying a republican. he has a super pack attacking dean heller in nevada. he does -- you couldn't come up with list that was more focused on losing an important close vote than this list, and then hearing how donald trump sat around the table talking about bastille day and just shooting the bull around the table like he always does, and expecting that to push senators who may not think the bill is good for their constituents. again it's alarming that he continues to confirm every day how little he knows about washington, d.c. >> i'm a little surprised, joe, that you don't see the metaphor in the bastille day, he was

clever, like esof explaining the importance of passing health care. look, this just shows all is going to come back to the president. mike pence and mitch mcconnell understand the hill, the president's congressional liaisons get high marks across the board. it comes back to him. difficult things, repealing an entightment, passing tax reform, it comes back can the president convince legislators whose lies, agendas aand priorities are totally different from his when it comes to voting their fear, acting out of concern and he has to convince them he gets it. he has to intimidate, cajole them, he has to understand shshared project, a republican only project right now. he's not close to being able to do that because as you said he has no experience in this realm. if he wants to shoot the breeze about bastille day or his trip and think charming them is going to get them to vote his way it's

just not the way they're going to vote on tough things and everything he's trying to do now, health care, whatever they talk about today, tax reform, it's all really tough. >> and bob costa, you reported on the bastille day anecdote. it has to be frustrating and maddening to these republicans that not only is donald trump not driving the message internally, driving the message when he's sitting down talking to them about the three reasons why they have to vote for this bill, and why it's important for their state and why it's important for the republican party, and why it's important for the country. they're not doing that publicly, when barack obama had an important bill to push, all of his people would go out in front of the white house in cameras and start talking to every network and every newspaper saying this is why we must pass this today. the bush administration did it, the clinton administration did it. every administration does it. you get the sense, in this case, that donald trump just can't be bothered with the details and so

he keeps coming up short. what is your reporting show? >> it's a complicated story, joe. few weeks ago some of the senators i spoke with on the republican side said it was okay in their view for the president not to be as engaged because they didn't really want to have the big rallies on health care and they didn't want to have trump, the president out there in the same way he was in the house because of the medicaid cuts, about the way this bill was so unpopular in the public. they prefer just to check the box, keep it as an inside game but they were confronted by the reality that an inside game wasn't enough. the most revealing moment came over the weekend friday/saturday when vice president pence goes to rhode island and talked to the governors, and he's met with this icy resistance from governor sandoval of nevada, governor kasich of ohio, not just about winning over the skeptical senators on the fence, it was convincing the governors in the republican party to come along with this bill. pence couldn't do it and monday night dinner what a disconnect.

the veteran senators in the blue room having rib eye with the president and two senators are bolting as they're having this quiet dinner talking about bastille day and other things. there was also this projected confidence in the gop that never met with what was happening on the ground and in the cloak room. >> joique us now from capitol hill, senator tim kaine of virginia. great to have you on the show. >> thanks, guys. >> we want to talk about that second meeting with flld fld but let's stay on health care. >> you bet. >> the president talking about letting obamacare fail and then he'll somehow win. first of all, will obamacare fail? >> no, it's providing insurance for millions of people who have never had it before. bankruptcies are cut in half. people with preexisting conditions are protected. we have to make improvements, mika. i'm a member of the health, education labor pension. i was on the committee for two days. i got on in january, two days later i wrote a letter to the

republicans saying let's take this matter up in committee. how do we fix it? how do we improve it? we're ready to work with you. our committee has had so many meetings but we won't meet about health care. we meet about the fda. in the senate there's an effort to jam something through. now we need to do is the right way, listen to the american public, and i hope this effort will fail. the president rooting for sales health care to succeed means he'll feel good if millions of people get hurt? that's outrageous. we won't let him sabotage our health care system. we have to work in a bipartisan way to make it better. >> how many meetings have you had with republican senators who tried to share with you the travails of their getting this legislation to the point where it could have a vote. have you had any meetings with them? >> mike i've certainly discussed with many of my colleagues on the committee this very thing. again the point i'm make something we've got a great

committee. lamar alexander, our chair, was a governor, understands medicaid. we have a doctor on the committee, bill cassidy from louisiana, maggie hassen, a governor who has a disabled child but we're not using that process at all and the reason this thing has failed in the senate is first because of people. you cannot threaten people's health care and expect them to go quietly. mother of a disabled child told me about a week ago i was having a roundtable meeting in virginia and she said they picked the wrong group of people to fight with. i said what do you mean by that? she said if you have a disabled child you fight from the moment that child is born for their health against doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, against social stigma, against school systems. you think we're going to let them slash medicaid without a fight? they badly miscalculated when they went after the medicaid program which is for kids, folks with disabilities and seniors, and now they have to set it aside and come back and try to

do it the right way. >> how about hanging a banner in the senate with the words of shelly moore capito from west virginia. "i did not come to washington to hurt people." >> "i did not come here to hurt people," this say lesson for the president, too. in this one the president is learning that facts strike back. i think they've gotten sloppy down there and they think they can say whatever and people will buy it, hook, line and sinker. this is a president who said everybody is going to be covered. nobody is going to pay more. i'll protect you if if you have a preexisting condition and won't cut medicaid. he has a celebration at the white house, isn't it great, this isn't a game show here. this is reality and when you make promises to people about their health care and then you shatter them, they're going to remember and the fact are going to strike back. in this case they have. >> steve kornacki you've seen the political reality. what republican leaders in the house thought they were capable

of getting their members to vote for, certainly in the senate. you see the political realities on the republican side. you want to work in a bipartisan fashion. looking at the political realities as they are in washington, is there anything you can say here specifically right now where you think there could be agreement between democrats and republicans on this? >> steve, i do. if we do it like we're supposed to, get in the committees, hear from the public and we can find improvement. i have a bill in to bring premiums down through using reinsurance. reinsurance it's a back stop. insurance companies have some, most people's claims are not that high but then you have a small portion of people who have very high claims. if you provide a back stop of reinsurance then you can price premiums for the regular everyday person rather than the high cost, that brings premiums down for everybody. we use reinsurance crop insurance, flood insurance,

medicare part b, reinsurance was part of at fordable care act then it ex-period, it has bipartisan kred. i have a bill just to reinstate the reinsurance provision in the affordable care act and it will bring premiums down. other colleagues have similar films. we are like in a starting gate that won't open. my hope is that now people like chairman alexander and our ranking democrat patty murray have a great record. if we can do this the right way we will find improvement that can get bipartisan support. >> moving to foreign policy, in the caikaine, three hours total second meeting between trump and putin, no national security adviser in the second meeting, no american note taker or translator. anything about that concern you? >> well it's troubling me

because last week we heard we're going to hear everything, now we're going to be completely transparent but as john mccain once said, my friend john mccain "i guess there's more shoes to drop off this centepede." seems there's always another shoe to drop. on this russia situation we have a very talented investigator in director mueller and senate intel investigations that are going on. it may not be fast but i am completely confident, completely confident we're going to get to the bottom of the connections between the trump campaign transition administration and russia, and we'll know the whole story. we have to make sure it's done right but we've got the right people on it. >> senator tim kaine, thank you so much for being with us. >> you bet, good to be with you. >> great to have you with us. let me go back to bob costa. i want to go to this "wall

street journal" editorial, we've been reading a lot of the editorials recently. tough writing, also very true talking about the failure to pass health care reform. this self-inflicted fiasco is one of the great political failures in recent u.s. history and the damage will echo for years. what are you hearing on the hill? what are senate republicans telling you behind the scenes in what are house republicans telling you behind the scenes in give our viewers some insight on what they're saying about russia, what they're saying about health care as it pertains to donald trump. >> the real story in health care in talking to lawmakers is the divide on whether the war on health care was lost just now or whether it was lost years ago when the affordable care act passed. they look ahead to 2018, what would be better to run with this republican health care plan or easier in their view to run

against democrats to try to have democrats shoulder the blame for some of the problems with the current law. that's really a divide in the gop, whether they really wanted to do this or not. they don't articulate that publicly. they need to sound full throated with their effort. on russia there is aan open question in the gop and democratic side how hard do you lean into this if you're a democrat. you have to wait for bob mueller and a special counsel and run hard against it right now a don jr. story and other things. that's an open debate on the left as well. >> robert costa, thank you so much. kasie hunt thank you for your reporting as well. and still ahead on "morning joe" two republicans with different takes on health care, governor con kasich who opposed the senate's plan and congressman tom cole who helped pass legislation in the house. first democratic senator chris murphy joins the conversation.

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comcast business. built for business. ♪ welcome back. the white house is calling it made in america week, but this morning, that effort is being overshadowed once again by questions about russia. nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker joins with us details. how is made in america week going? >> reporter: well you're right it is being overchateaued by yet another russia related controversy. president trump and russian president vladimir putin had a second encounter at the g20 summit earlier this month. the white house this morning vigorously pushing back against criticism it should have disclosed that second encounter. striking new revelation a white house official telling nbc news president trump had a previously undisclosed conversation with

russian president vladimir putin at this dinner held for world leaders at the g20 summit in hamburg, germany, according to "the washington post" citing a senior administration official, mr. trump left his seat and sat next to mr. putin. the undisclosed meeting is unusual with no american aides to witness it and no official u.s. government summary of that encounter ever released. the white house pushing back, noting the president circulated freely and spoke to many leaders adding "the insinuation that the white house has tried to hide a second meeting is false, malicious and absurd." the president tweeting late tuesday "story of secret dinner with putin is sick" insisting the press knew. the evening of the exchange happening on the same day they had their first official meeting which lapsed more than two hours. it comes as nbc news learned there was an eighth person who attended that 2016 meeting with donald trump jr. and russian officials at trump tower.

that person ike kavalse a senior suspect of a company rund by a former business partner of president trump. in 2000 he was the subject of a government investigation into possible money laundering in u.s. banks. his attorney telling nbc news the reality is he's never been accused of anything wrongdoing, period. >> it's very disturbing to me that it's taken us this long for this kind of information to come out. >> reporter: and this morning special counsel robert mueller has given the green light for the senate to hear from donald trump jr. and the president's former campaign chair paul manafort, also at that meeting, governor chris christie acknowledging some of junior's actions weren't advisable but insisting not criminal. >> i'm not here defending the taking of the meeting. i'm not. but what i'm also saying is it's

not evidence of a crime. >> reporter: robert mueller wants to interview him and he plans on cooperating. no date has been set for that or for trump jr. to testify on capitol hill. mika, joe? >> nbc's kristen welker, thank you very much. joining us now member of the foreign relations committee, senator chris murphy of connecticut. what questions do you have especially in light of this new information, the revelations about the second previously up disclosed meeting between president trump and vladimir putin? >> so i risk that i worry that we risk losing a little bit of perspective on some of the watershed moments here by reacting with equal outrage to every revelation, so yes, the president or the administration should have disclosed this meeting at the g20 but it was in a public setting with a whole bunch of other g20 leaders. the watershed moment is the

donald trump jr. meeting which may be the fire underneath the smoke we've been waiting for. i think there's a little bit of a perpetual emotion machine to now react with equal outrage to every daily revelation. i'm not as worried about the g20 meeting as i am about the inability to get the full truth on the donald trump jr. meeting and we have to focus there on the meeting that is probably most problematic and most key to understanding the full potential collusion between the trump campaign and the russian government. >> senator, it's important to keep things in their proper condition te context which you are obviouslying to and looking at those two different instances. that said, how unusual is it for a united states president to have three hours of meetings with an adversary of the united states with an adversary who sees the united states as their enemy, and have three hours' worth of meetings without a

single national security staff member around them. >> it's especially concerning because we're pretty sure at this point that donald trump doesn't know the book of business that he's talking with putin. he seems woefully undereducated about the major national security challenges that are presented. he seems to go back and forth on u.s. policy towards russia on an hourly basis, the most recent example being the suggestion the united states should be in deep cooperations with the russians about cyber security and election security, pivoting back to our original position of being careful about that an hour later. i think we should all be very worried that the president is enginle engaged in talks with vladimir putin without any professional staff around given the fact it's clear the president has not done enough study in order to talk with putin on equal footing.

>> senator, sam stein here. i want to switch to domestic politics. what we'll likely see in the next day, week, repeal and replace, i should say repeal only effort will fail in the senate. the question we've all hmm is what comes next. as a democrat who fought this, are you ready to sit down with republicans and if so where do you see the areas of agreement and what kind of concessions could you make in order to get things like ree insurance and some of these cautionary subsidies. >> i'm very ready, and as tim kaine noted earlier we've been ready since the very beginning. we've made known our desire to sit down with republicans. you're right, there has to be parameters around the nerk negotiations. i'm not interested in cutting medicaid or tax cuts for the rich but i think there's a dialogue for what works in the aca and fixing what needs improve. one example republicans want

more flexibility in the exchanges. they perhaps want a new plan to be offered that has lower premiums so i'm willing to talk to them about that as long as they're willing to talk to us about taking away from president prump some of the discretion he has to undermine the affordable care act. he it he he will graphed he wants to tear it apart and we probably need to do things to stabilize it. there's a conversation to be had but we all have to work toward the same goal, which is lower cost and nor people, not less people enrolled in insurance in this country. i'm scent keptical mitch mcconns going to do that. there's a lot of progressive democrats like me that are willing to compromise with these guys. >> senator, you're a oughtful that guy. i wonder, are you worried the trump presidency has changed, the definition, the nature the impression of the presidency around the globe and here at home. >> i worry that this is a

pivotal moment for u.s. reputation and power in the world, and that's exclusive of the trumpe presidency. it's not a bipolar world any longer. if you're a free agent, you have a lot of suitors for your affection. it's not just russia and the united states. it's china. it's brazil. there's a lot of people who are out there trying to exert power, and so it's a lot easier today to walk away from a relationship with the united states. so as you see this massive withdrawal from the world, this purposeful deconstruction of the state department, i don't know that we're going to be able to get that influence back three and a half years from now. so i think there is some permanent damage that's done to the united states, the influence we exert and what we thought was this inexorable march towards participatory democracies and open economies there's a boomerang happening in many places and without u.s.

leadership we can't model democracy. there's no other country that can do it for us. i worry we're not going to get this influence back now that we've lost so much of it in a very short period of time. >> all right, senator chris murphy, thank you so much for being on the show today. >> thanks, guys. coming up, mike pence did his best to sell governors on the latest health care plan, but got a frosty response. republican brian sandoval of nevada said "i have to be convinced that shaking an etch-a-sketch for the people in nevada." are they going to be in a better position? how the white house can get buy-in from fellow republicans when john kasich joins us live. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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thank you, sir. two questions, please. >> john roberts is bored today. he's headed out. >> if it were on camera i might not. >> that was a moment from yesterday's audio only white house press briefing, featuring john roberts of fox news.

later roberts tweeted about his walk-off, "to all who are musing over me leaving the briefing, i have a live shot, had the brief on camera, it would have been on tv, not me. i would have waited until it was over." the last on-camera briefing was june the 29th, but roberts actually showed a good bit of independence pushing back there, and we've talked about it before. you look at fox news and people like john roberts, shep smith, chris wallace and some others who actually are pushing back when the white house needs somebody pushing back on them, and i wonder how long it's going to be before more members of the press walk out of these briefings, if they keep getting less and less significant and more incomplete. coming up next, the health care fight in the house of

representatives, congressman tom cole said it came down to the question, can you governor or can't you? we're going to be getting his answer next on "morning joe" and i'll ask you about that "wall street journal" editorial. i realize that ah, that $100k is not exactly a fortune. well, a 103 yeah, 103. well, let me ask you guys. how long did it take you two to save that? a long time. then it's a fortune. well, i'm sure you talk to people all the time who think $100k is just pocket change. right now we're just talking to you.

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to more companies, in more locations, than centurylink. we do business where you do business. ♪ ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." with us republican congressman tom cole of oklahoma. congressman, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> "wall street journal" talking this morning about the failure of the republicans over in the senate. do you see a way forward with just republicans passing a health care bill or is it time to start figuring out if moderate democrats want to join in and somehow create something that moves congress and this country forward? >> i think, i don't want to be hard on the sthatenate. this was tough all along. first they have to figure out what they can do and that's not something we can help them with. we got a bill over there, we did

what we were asked to do and now we see what they're able to do. second we hear a lot of working with democrats and we ought to fix obamacare not just scrap it but the reality is i haven't seen any fixes proposed by the democratic side and if the idea of fixing it is more and more money into a failing system that's never going to pass over here. i'm content to let the senate sit down and sort through its problems but they need to pass something and then we can get the conference and hopefully we can accomplish something then. >> congressman, you did what actually the president and steve bannon and others have been pushing the house to do and also obviously something that a lot of house members wanted to do, but then the president went around telling senators and others that your bill was "mean." do you think that may have caused some of the senators to pause before jumping off the cliff for this president? >> i don't know. i don't think so, frankly. it's not unusual for presidents to sort of flatter the senate to

try to get them to do something. so i actually give the president a lot of latitude on that. at the end of the day we knew what we passed wouldn't be the final product. they had to pass something over there and then we had to go to conference. i always felt like probably our bill would be further to the right than their bill and we would meet someplace in the middle and hopefully have something that really delivered for the american people but the senate has to figure out what it can do. if it's a bipartisan product, they should get together, do that and let's go to conference. what we have now isn't working. it doesn't change the fact the obama system is collapsing. my state we're looking at 69% rate increases. we're down to single provider. our hospitals we're not a medicaid expansion state so we're taking care of patients we get no compensation for so the system isn't working for us and if the senate can do something i'm more than willing to sit down and talk to them and see if we can find common ground but they have to pass something.

>> congressman, republicans' inability to reach a deal on health care is that a bad omen for the party on tax reform? yesterday the house budget committee took the first step toward overhauling the tax code unveiling a $4 trillion budget proposal that calls for reducing tax rates for businesses and individuals, but it also features just over $200 billion in mandatory spending cuts on social programs including those for the poor. that move could once again don't you think divide conservative and moderate republicans, joe? >> i sit on the budget committee, in full chrdisclosur and diane blackmon the chairman worked with everybody. that is more than $30 trillion worth of spending that will take place over a decade. finding $200 billion out of $30 trillion and spacing it over ten years shouldn't be that hard to do. but nobody around here has done

it for a while, so i applaud the budget committee for actually going after where the real problem is at, that's entitlement spending, all that $200 billion is entitlement so they're to be commended for taking on the tough problem. >> so congressman, what's next for the republican house, for the republican senate, for this president? do you move to tax reform, and does health care reform get put on the back burner? >> first we finish what we need to do this year, i mean before the august break, that is today, joe, we'll have finished passing out all 12 appropriations bills out of the full appropriations committee. nobody's done that since 2006. then next week we'll pass the national security bill which will include four of those, defense, energy and water and veterans and those will be across the floor before we go home. i think again we need to sit down with our senate friends and listen, i think clearly health care goes to the back burner

before, and at least until the senate demonstrates what it can do. tax reform i'm actually more confident about, although again, look, success breeds success. we did not have success here so that's a setback. you got to be honest about it, but i think tax reform will give us an opportunity to come back and if the senate can get something together we'll go to conference. we need to do something to fix this health care system. it's not working for lots of americans. the premiums are going up. the coverage, you've got people providers and insurance companies exiting the market. the fact that we weren't able to get something done doesn't change the reality that this is a failing system and needs to be addressed. >> congressman mark halperin, good morning to you. >> hey, mark. >> would you rather, all other things being equal, pass a bill that was voted not only by you on health care by nancy pelosi or rather pass a bill without nancy pelosi? >> well i'm not going to -- look, i've been willing to be

part of deals. i've yet to be convinced that the democratic leadership is ever for anything that's not more spending and more government, and frankly, i have a lot more faith in the free market. >> from your point of view for the country? >> well look -- >> with her support or without her support? >> i don't know that we need her support. look. we have proven we can move on our own. i'm happy to work in a bipartisan fashion. but it's got to be for something that fundamentally fixes the system. our democratic friends, frankly, talk about fixing it. they have never made any fixes for it at all. they love the system. they bled and died for it. i get it. it's not working so i'm not going to buy into, you know, the obamacare system as is. i need to something a lot different that works for the people i represent right now. this system isn't doing that. >> what would you say to a republican voter out there

saying, i voted for you in 2010, 2012, 2014 and 2016 to repeal obamacare. you finally got the power to do it and you couldn't get it done. i'm not voting for you anymore. >> i don't think that's going to happen, quite frankly. i think the house delivered on the commitments it made. i can't be held accountable for the senate in that regard but i also point to what's in the house, a brilliant, you know, record of legislative achievement. i give the senate the credit for nailing down the supreme court for us. that was something they did on their own. they should take credit for it. i think the economy is probably the most important single factor going into next year and looking in pretty good shape. getting tax reform i think we can goose that up and do better. it is premature to throw in the towel, politically or electorally right now. we have a lot to do. we ought to focus on getting it done. you know, setbacks usually aren't final defeats around here. you just got to get up and go back to work. >> congressman, it's sam stein.

there's a lot that the administration can do on health care without congressional input. for instance, they could be more certain about the cost sharing subsidies, help publicize enrollment plans and hearing yesterday from donald trump is the preference is to in his words let the law collapse and fail. that could have resulted in a lot of human suffering. are you as a republican comfortable with that approach from your party's president? >> look. i'm never comfortable with letting things fail or hurting the american people. there is a lot we can. frankly, there's a lot to be fair that tom price and health and human services is doing and working other legislation. we move medical malpractice insurance reform across the house floor a couple of weeks ago. you can start with that. do associated health care plans. there's pollty plans for democratic support but, you know, again, in the end left by itself obamacare is going to collapse. the president's right about that so if democrats want to sit down

and do some things to save it, fine. if the idea to throw in billions an billions of more dollars just to prop it up, look, this thing -- we have 19 states that aren't obamacare expansion states and, frankly, no matter what the cbo says it seems to think they're going to become, they never will be. i know the states. one of them is mine. this system, two-tiered system, where all the country is paying for medicaid expansion in 31 states suspect going to last forever so democrats want to sit down and talk about that, happy to do it. but again, so far i've seen no proposals from their side. >> all right. congressman tom cole, we always love having you with us. thank you so much for spending time with us this morning. >> thank you. all right. coming up next, can governors help the senate come to grips on health care? ohio republican john kasich thinks so. and he's going to explain to us how. but first, there were plenty of foreign leaders at a g20 dinner

but it was a conversation between president trump and president putin that's making headlines this morning. we'll talk about that straight ahead on "morning joe." and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ "got a minute? new aveeno®...r you." ...positively radiant® 60 second in shower facial. works with steam to reveal... ...glowing skin in just one minute. aveeno® "naturally beautiful results®"

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we have 52 people. we had four noes. now we might have had another one in there but essentially the vote would have been pretty close if you look at it 48-4. that's a pretty impressive vote by any standard. >> impressive vote by any standard except for the standard of actually getting your agenda passed and stop us if you've heard this before. this morning, the senate republicans' effort to dismantle obamacare seems on the verge of total collapse. good morning. it is wednesday, july 19th. welcome to "morning joe." with us, veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnacle. national political correspondent for nbc news and msnbc steve kornacki. senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin and politics editor for "the daily beast" sam stein. also with us, nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt. before we get to the russia

meeting, joe, what do you think the biggest development politically is, domestically over the past 24 hours in terms of health care? was it the failure of the plan itself? >> well, yeah. it is really hard to ignore what donald trump said in that clip coming in. bragging about having a 48-4 record with republicans. that's not how it works. anybody been in washington for more than a day understands that's not how it works. that's the tally of somebody who lost. that would be like hillary clinton going around saying, i'm sure she does to friends, i really won. because i got 3 million more votes. that's not how things are scored in the 2016 election an it's certainly not how things are run in the health care debate. the fact is donald trump did a terrible job selling health care because he department really try to sell health care. he abused house republicans that went out online for him earlier in the year.

and then wept out and talked about how mean that plan was. and didn't give senate republicans any reason to believe he wouldn't throw them under the bus at the same time. constantly distracted. never really focused. a lot of them complained he didn't even understand what was inside the bill. so he really couldn't rally the base to support it. and you know, he can talk about 48-4. the fact is he is 0-1. when it comes to passing health care. something, mika, he said was going to be easy. >> yeah. we're going to get back to the health care battle in just a moment. but first, we've now learned of a second previously undisclosed one on one meeting between president trump and russian president vladimir putin. earlier this month at the g20 summit in hamburg, germany. the white house confirmed last night that trump got up from his place to speak with putin at a private dinner for leaders and

their spouses. ian bremer had heard from from attendees that trump approached putin alone and they spoke for about an hour. with a kremlin interpreter translating for both. attendees said they found it odd trump gravitated to putin at a dinner of america's oldest and staunchest allies. ian bremer will be our guest if n a moment. the dinner was on the president's public schedule and not open to the news media. putin and trump had spent over two hours in a bilateral meeting earlier that day. there is no official readout of their second talk because no american official other than the president was involved. in response, the white house said the president trump spoke with many leaders in the course of the evening an enthat he had gone over to first lady melania trump seated next to putin where they spoke briefly with the

russian president. press secretary sean spicer told "the new york times" it was pleasantries and small talk. the white house claims the american translator with trump did not speak russian. president trump reacted with anger calling the report sick. insisting the press knew. and, quote, even a dinner arranged for top 20 leaders in germany is made to look sinister. joe, i -- i'm not trying to make this look sinister. i'm not sure who is. we are just wondering what happened there. >> well, actually, it's the president himself who may have made this look sinister. certainly, mark halperin, a lot of foreign policy minds, not only in washington but across the world, especially among allies deeply disturbed that the president of the united states has now spent three hours with vladimir putin, someone that

he's long been accused of having an abnormal relationship with. abnormally close relationship with, unusual admiration for. and now he's had three hours worth of meetings without a national security adviser by his side. and in this one-hour meeting which was not known to the press, this side meeting that the press did not know about, he actually spoke to vladimir putin with no american there, only, only an interpreter from the kremlin. what -- i don't even know what to say, mark. how do you follow up a week where your son is caught lying day in and day out and day in and day out and one of your top advisers is caught lying time and time again, about contacts with russians, your attorney general has been caught lying about meetings with russians,

the vice president has been lied to repeatedly about meetings with russians. it goes on and on and on and then he takes a meeting which they don't tell the press and they don't give a readout to the press with vladimir putin by himself and with a russian interpreter. >> this white house should know that if president obama had done this exact thing and had not disclosed there would be tons of questions about it. but obviously, this president has a different set of problems and suspicions regarding his relationship with russia. and with putin. so, they shouldn't be the least bit surprised this is the result, particularly because the meeting was not disclosed an now lost to history an a lot of foreign policy professionals said this is not good practice for the president to be in a conversation like that where he doesn't even control the translation in any way. i'd like to think america would send someone with the president that dinner to speak more than two languages. but in this case, that meeting's

lost forever and nothing the white house can do about what took place. nothing they can do and no record except for putin wants to say about the meeting. >> mike, because of what donald trump has done in the past, reporters, foreign policy analysts, and our allies can safely assume the worst. they can safely assume the worst of donald trump. they can safely assume the worst of vladimir putin. because in the last meeting that donald trump had with russians before putin, he was talking to their foreign minister and their ambassador to the u.s. and he was talking about firing james comey and saying that he'd gotten the pressure off of everybody because he had fired the nutcase who was investigating donald trump's possible illegal ties with russia. so what are we to assume if not the worst, that he had this meeting, the white house didn't

reveal it. once again, we had to find out about it through third channels and there wasn't even an american within earshot to listen to what these two talked about for an hour. >> well, joe, one thing we don't have to assume, one thing to accept is the fact that tomorrow marks the sixth anniversary of the trump administration, six-month anniversary he's been president. prior to his assuming the presidency, a lot of people thought and would say that the presidency will certainly change donald trump. well, it hasn't. it hasn't changed donald trump. and now we have an administration with the russia stuff, the meeting with putin, clearly has an attraction to. maybe because of putin's strength as a leader. who knows? we have the health care debacle. and we have the fact that this administration is so far a mix of incompetence and indifference to almost everything before it. >> i keep -- i'm thinking of the

things that might have sort of foreshadowed this word about this meeting an i'm coming back to two things we have seen before that we would have said the same things that you're saying. donald trump calling a -- clearing the room for the meeting with james comey. the idea he likes, i think just given sort of what he did in the past and given the nature he likes this idea of one on one meetings where there can be no record and nobody can ever say for sure this is what was said and the conversation was. i'm thinking of that in the context of this meeting an also thinking of his sensitivity to the leaks that came out during the transition period, especially, conversations he was having with foreign leaders on what he thought were secure channels and then finding the contents of the conversations spilling into the press. it was clear how much those leaks bothered him and i just looking at this, it sort of seems like maybe he saw an opportunity to keep anybody who might leak it to the american press away, to have the kind of one on one meeting he alikes. no press in the room. only a russian interpreter.

you know? i imagine that might be the thinking that led to this. >> still ahead, republican governor john kasich joins the discussion, we'll talk about his effort to lead the opposition to his own party's health care plan. but first, we'll break down how the legislation broke down. what it means for the future of obamacare and president trump's own agenda moving forward. but first, bill karens with a check on the forecast. >> fire pictures out of california. not far from yoet mite and a very impressive flames. evacuations are under way and a lot of firefighters trying to get control of the big blaze and really flared up yesterday. now the heat story and we have 34 million people under an advisories or excessive heat warnings. we expect heat waves like this. we have one. kansas city, st. louis, the worst of it. 10 million people at risk of a

severe threat of storms. the storms will form in the dakotas and then go through hard southern minnesota and wind damage possible. so now let's get into the heat. these numbers are impressive. hottest of the season for many. today 99 in st. louis. the orange numbers are the heat index in the shade. adding in the humidity that's the feels like temperature. it really peaks on thursday. look at omaha, 112 heat index. that's because it's not only hot but grossly humid, too. st. louis 110. we really start to see the heat a big problem in the east an mid-atlantic. thursday, d.c. feels alike 103. look what happens in richmond friday. a temperature of 100. record highs possible. with a heat index around 108 degrees. so the heat's really the story. it goes from boise to boston. 90-degree plus everywhere in between. times square in new york city, a heat advisory. should feel like 96 today. near 100 over the next two days.

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now we turn to health care and this morning the republican-led effort to overhaul obamacare seems to be on the verge of total and complete collapse. majority leader mitch mcconnell's latest push to repeal the health care law without an immediate replacement is already on the brink of failure. they can only lose two senators from the caucus and already republican senator susan collins, shelley moore cap to and lisa murkowski have come out against the plan and yesterday evening senator rob portman of ohio released a statement saying i don't think it's appropriate just to repeal. we've also got to put a replacement in place. despite those concerns, leader mcconnell says the party will proceed as planned.

>> at the request of the president and the vice president, and after consulting with our members, we'll have the vote on the motion to proceed to the obamacare repeal bill early next week. >> recent polling shows the various plans put out by the house and senate republicans widely unpopular. a monmouth university national poll shows 27% approved the now dead senate health care bill that was introduced last week and a new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll found key counties that supporting donald trump's presidential bid 12% of voters support the house gop health care bill. senator graham as usual crystallized the matter. >> would you like to see more from the president on this? >> you know, i'd like to see a bill that people actually liked. i got to go. >> kasie hunt, what is going on on capitol hill?

it seems almost demoralizing. >> i think republicans are very demoralized. look. i think the president and vice president, you heard mcconnell say it on the floor, have put him under incredible pressure to have his members vote on this. this is the kind of -- this is the way that president trump seems to have wanted to play it with congressman. force them to do these things and force paul ryan to do it without the votes for health care in the house an making republicans extraordinarily unhappy. there was a very contentious lunch yesterday and argued about what to do and then mcconnell said, okay, look, sorry. we'll go to the floor and vote on this. as you said, this now, that repeal and replace which, of course, the campaign mantra for the seven years, that's done. that's over. now talking about repeal only. essentially trying to force democrats to the table. but they don't have the support of that. if things continue, mcconnell holds the vote, the three women

senators stand strong the way they have said they plan to. that's going to be a final line in the sand for this. i think then the question is going to turn to chuck schumer and democrats and to figure out if they can do some sort of fix for the individual markets. that's something both sides agree on. the insurance companies are basically starting to panic even more than they have already. many of them are potentially pulling out of the markets. it's created so much uncertainty and challenges for them and for the americans that rely on the individual plans. mika? >> sam stein, there's not really a whole lot of opportunity for republicans to move beyond this without getting the help of democrats. but as we talk about the repeal only vote and donald trump trying to force the issue, what he may find is there's more republicans that are going to join the senators from west virginia and alaska and maine who will all be rewarded

politically, by the way, for voting against a repeal-only bill to knock according to the cbo 25 million more americans off of health care. they may find that rob portman can't go there, they may find that senators of pennsylvania and wisconsin can't go there. they may find a lot of other senators just are not going to vote for a straight repeal without any sort of safety net to pick up all lot of people in the home states. >> i'm not totally convinced that mcconnell is upset with the vote. it allows some vulnerable members to show that they were -- they were for some form of health care replacement republican and not just repeal and could be politically a advantageous. maybe not now but down the road. the questions raised today are what happens next, right? kasie talked about whether

democrats come to the table. we reported that joe manchin gathered the former governors turned senators to try to start a bipartisan working group but the big wild card here is donald trump. and at the white house yesterday, after this news broke that the health care bill was dead, trump himself said that he wanted to let obamacare fail. and as someone who administers the health care law, the hhs, cms department, there's operational control they can have to facilitate the failure. if you step back an think about it it's a political strategy with a great morality deficit. essentially what they're saying is we'll allow people to suffer in the individual market, potentially in medicaid, so that we can compel democrats to come to the negotiating table and they're being overt about it saying this is the strategy and we hope that democrats feel enough pain that they come and negotiate. i don't see how this works. if you're out there declaring that's a strategy, how then do you pin it on the democrats?

>> coming up on "morning joe," president trump held three hours of meetings with vladimir putin and never once was there a member of the national security council in the room. we'll talk to columnist ian bremer who broke the story of a second previously undisclosed one on one meeting of the two leaders. that is next.

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back now to the second previously undisclosed one on one meeting of president trump and russian president vladimir putin. earlier this month in hamburg, germany. we are joined now by the man who first reported that news, president and founder of eurasia group and editor at large for "time" magazine, ian bremer. also with us, former undersecretary of state, now a msnbc contributor, ambassador wendy sherman. thank you both for being with us. ian, i want to get more details, what the response was like in the room when this happened. but first, how unprecedented is this? >> well, it's not surprising for leaders to have informal pull

asides when they have business to discuss in the context of these summits. but what is unusual is the length, the warmth in the context of what is already an unprecedented relationship between trump and putin and the context of the broader u.s./russia relationship. i'll tell you that, you know, many of the leaders that were in that room, including, you know, america's most important allies, were quite surprised. they found it unusual and noteworthy. the body lack wage, the chemistry, the fact it went on for so long and of course, reflected a much warmer relationship between trump and putin than he has with any of the other leaders in the room. and i think in the context of a president who already has unnerved a lot of world leaders making them wonder to what extent is a trump administration committed to them, on security or trade or climate or what have

you, this really -- that's where i think the true uniqueness of this comes along. >> ian, let me ask you very quickly, how disturbing is it to you and others in the national security community that donald trump now had three hours worth of meetings with vladimir putin and in those three hours worth of meetings he's not had one national security adviser, one person from national security staff there with him in three hours. >> staggering. >> and a relationship that most of our foreign policy community finds troubling at the very least. >> well, it's pretty stunning and i think in the context of the last couple of days where we have heard from the russian foreign ministry that, indeed, they're moving and close to a deal where the united states would give back these two russian properties that they were engaged in surveillance of the united states on, engaged in illegal activities on u.s. soil,

it seems at least plausible, probably likely given how important it is to putin, that was brought up and discussed in that private pull aside with trump. in the readout of the official meeting with rex tillerson, at least the secretary of the state was there, no such discussion. official readout doesn't matter if there's an hour conversation and the only people that know what happened are trump, putin and everyone in the kremlin because his translator was not there and none of the white house advisers read into the discussion until i'm told the news actually broke. so it -- all of this is i think quite surprising. >> ambassador sherman, how did that strike you? no readout and no american presence there except for the president. >> i agree with everything ian said. the only translator was the russian translator. president trump doesn't really know what went on in that meeting because whatever he said got translated by the translator and that translator's life in some ways is on the line.

he is president putin's guy. a and he's going to make sure whatever conversation happens really is for the president of russia's interests. not the president of the united states. so i agree. if this was five or ten minutes, that's what you use these dinners for to say hello. but i would have much rather him had an hour with angela merkel running europe or with president macron which, of course, he did on bastille day, but this is gravely concerning. >> coming up on "morning joe," republican governor john kasich joins us live. but first, the political roundtable with strategist mike murphy and paige winfield cunningham covering health care for "the washington post." "morning joe" coming right back. ♪

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president trump and i fully support the majority leader's decision to move forward with a bill that just repeals

obamacare. and gives congress time as the president said to work on a new health care plan that will start with a clean slate. inaction is not an option. congress needs to step up. congress needs to do their job. and congress needs to do their job now. >> i think the thing that's dead here is obamacare. i think we have seen that it's completely failed. and at this point, congress needs to do their job and they need to do it as quickly as they can because every day they don't we go further in to collapsing under obamacare and so i think that at this point inaction is not a workable solution and so they need to come to the table and figure out how to reform the system and fix it. >> we've done this in the house. we have passed our simultaneous repeal and replace bill. we think that's the solution and the best way to go and we have to wait and hope that the friends in the senate figure out a bill to be passed, get into

conference or whatever an get something passed. >> a lot of finger pointing after the senate republicans' effort to repeal to obamacare came to a grinding halt. the trump administration saying congress needs to do its job. speaker paul ryan saying that the house did its part and moments ago the president tweeted -- i'll be having lunch at the white house today with republican senators concerning health care. they must keep their promise to america. meanwhile, the president's self proclaimed ability to make deals is now under question. trump didn't go on any major tours to sell the health care plan and gave few interviews touting the vir chu or even any understanding of the details of the plan. perhaps didn't have a core investment in the detalls of the legislation? a look over his tweets over the past few months show he's been sort of all over the map on the issue. early yesterday he tweeted, as i

have always said, let obamacare fail and then come together and do a great health care plan. but he hasn't always said that. the day before, he encouraged republicans to repeal obamacare. and replace later down the road. despite earlier in the year saying repeal and place needed to be simultaneous. and that was in between a lot of other tweets that were really weird and had nothing to do with health care. last month, he supported the senate's version though reportedly wanted it to have more heart. in may, he supported the house version calling it a great plan before later calling it mean. earlier this year, he promised insurance for everybody and on the campaign trail he pledged not to cut medicaid. joining us now, republican strategist and host of the radio free gop podcast mike murphy. and health care reporter for "the washington post" paige winfield cunningham. mark halperin, sam stein, all

back with us, as well. joe, he is all over the map on a lot of different levels. >> well, he is all over the map not only on the health care but just about every issue that he addresses other than the friendship with vladimir putin and his deep, deep desire to move more close diplomatically to russia. >> true. >> mike murphy, let me bring you in here. if you're the senators right now, republican senators, you've got to be trying to figure out why in the world can we do with a president that doesn't really know the details of the bill an any bill that we pass he'll turn around and end up attacking us like house members. >> well, exactly. the president is discovering what a lot of politicians already knew, health care is the bermuda triangle of mitt romney politics. easy to fly into smiling and then often never seen again. the policy side is so hard it's nothing but pain for voters and

politicians particularly demagoguing ones like trump have a real problem with that. the republicans want a survival path. i think leader mcconnell wants a vote on repeal. it will lose and members on the record saying back home, i voted to repeal it. i wasn't the one that voted no and then try to change the channel. the problem is changing the channel is going to be really hard because they're going to have to inject money into the system. the old political cure-all in the end to prop up some of the exchanges and trying to brand it as a conservative reform of existing obamacare or something and then try to get on to tax reform which is going to be equally or even harder. so it's going to be a long year i think for republican senators. >> i mean, mike, at the end of this process, though, don't the republicans at least in the senate -- actually, and in the house, don't they have to work with the democrats, not for good

government sake but just because of basic math? if you want 50 votes in the senate and get to 218 in the house. because whatever the senate passes with democrats is going to lose the freedom caucus in the house an they're going to have to find some moderate democrats, as well. >> yeah. i think that's the hard math because we don't really have a working republican majority on policy questions. you're going to see that with some of the debt limit stuff coming around the corner. so that can be an early test of will they do that? i think the problem the democrats graduated suma cum laude and letting the republicans hang is i think where they think the votes are. the rub will come, i believe, when we have to inject more money in the exchanges to bail them out. can mcconnell who's crafty and smart create a bill the democrats can't vote no on to prop it and then brand it a

rescue package. the key, though, to get on to other stuff and that's still looking a far ways away without tax reform without the savings you need from health care reform and they don't have the votes to get that done. >> so, paige, i want to bring you in. you have been covering this health care specifically and i'm really interested in vice president mike pence and how he's looked throughout the entire process from your point of view. some would say he's the adult in the white house. sort of separating himself from any appearance of corruption or problems. and yet, how would you describe how he characterized the plans every step of the way? because it seems to be one area where the vice president is not in lockstep with reality. >> well, you're right. he has been the one that the white house dispatched to the hill back when the house was passing the bill and then again with the senate and i think you saw his frustration with the sort of massive meltdown that we

saw yesterday. but, you know, at the end of the day this was a deep policy problem and someone like pence who understands health policy even more couldn't bridge. i think republicans didn't realize how intertwined the affordable care act was with medicaid and you saw the conflict crop up. at the end of the day even though they called for entitlement reform for years, pence and other conservatives, it was hard to reach an agreement on whether to cut the program, what to do it, how quickly to phase out medicaid expansion, what to do with the underlying program and so i think that's a big reason that there was just this unbridgeable gap between the moderates and the conservatives. you also -- this is also a great example of how lawmakers will vote for legislation when they think it won't become law and then a totally different ball game when they know that it will become law. three of the republicans now that say they're going to vote against this repeal only bill.

two of them, murkowski and caputo, voted for the exact same measure a year and a half ago and it is telling on the divisions. >> mike, the polling is really mixed on how much trump voters prioritize repealing the affordable care act. is there an army out there that the white house with a different type of effort could have mobilized to putt pressure on members of congress or is this not a big issue compared to other things for the base that got donald trump elected? >> i think the president or comrade president as we'll soon have to call him -- i joke here -- could have done a lot more. the problem is, this thing is a pain smorgasbord for politicians and it is hard to get them to go there because the reality is even though we align the party against a mandate because it didn't fit our philosophy and great policies to oppose it, you need rates until you subsidize everybody until the treasury is

empty. the's no easy path here and i don't think the president put the shoulder behind it. as you indicated in the introduction, he's trying to float above it, not taking much responsibility. you can't do that as president of the united states. so he's going to own it and there's nothing but pain going forward. will they be able to punt and then change the channel? because i think there is some truth to the fact that most voters more interested particularly in the republican coalition in jobs, jobs, jobs. can he deliver some success there to ameliorate the pain of breaking the promise on health care? it's the number one promise we have made for a decade. >> paige, as you have heard mike murphy describe the dilemma, let's tack about the specifics of the bill that was introduced in the house and been talked about in the senate. we keep hearing from republicans that obamacare is collapsing. it's failing. it's like going to be gone by noontime today. some of them listening to them

that's what you'd think. if it did collapse, how many -- first of all, do you think it's collapsing? >> you know, it really depends on where you look. so we have 44 counties with about 30,000 americans that may not have any options on the marketplaces next year and if you look at other counties, some consumers will have two, three, four options an so it's really region by region, county by county. when trump uses the rhetoric of letting the house burn down, first of all, it is sort of overstating the problem and then, of course, there's a lot of division over whether you should let the house burn down or prop up some of the marketplaces. >> all right. mike murphy and paige winfield cunningham, thank you both. up next, we'll speak live with republican governor john kasich. keep it right here on "morning joe." we, the people, are tired of being surprised with extra monthly fees. we want hd. and every box and dvr. all included.

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efforts so stay tuned. we may have more news for you later on that. >> some senators yesterday calling for a return to a bipartisan approach to health care. democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia announced he was organizing a bipart san meeting of former governor yous no serving in the senate. three on the republican side and six on the democratic caucus. south dakota republican mike round said he would be attending the meeting last night. another of those former governors senator lamar alexander of tennessee announced that he will convene hearings of the senate health committee tee in search of ways to stabilize the individual insurance market, a sign it's moving to regular order. and a bipartisan group of 11 current governors, 5 republicans, 5 democrats and 1 independent, signed on to a statement rejecting efforts to end the law without a simultaneous replacement plan. joining us now, one of those 11

governors, republican governor john kasich of ohio. it's very good to have you on the show today. looking at what you have written in "new york times," and quite frankly, listening to you on the campaign trail and in other interviews, it's very clear what drives you when you talk about health care. what is your best guess on what has driven this president through the process? >> oh -- >> so far. >> -- i don't think he's ideological on this. he has political people to try to probably tell him you need to do this or that. but i don't think he cares really what the solution is. i don't think he's embedded in an ideological program here. the more he's ideological the worst he does. health care is not something that should be driven -- the first and foremost thing on health care is people need to have it. they need to be healthy. they don't need to go bankrupt

if they get sick an we know that if people are hell they''re more likely to work than if they're unhealthy and my sense is at the end he'll sign something to stabilize the markets. sure that we can then head to a direction of where we can deal with the problems of rising health care, which is really related to one simple thing. there is a number of things, but one simple thing. we practice quantity and not quality. if we practice quality and paid for quality, we'd begin to rein in these driving health care costs along with looking at all the other elements that contribute, for example, the rising cost of pharmaceuticals. >> john, what would the medicaid cuts do to the state of ohio and to the states of the other governors, republican and democrat alike, that you've spoken with over the past week? >> joe, you can't cut almost $800 billion out of medicaid and say it won't matter. but joe, i know that you would line up with me.

i believe that there could be an effort, a bipartisan effort. i've talked to some governors, i've talked to some senators, about the idea that we look at medicaid, we look at medicare and we look at social security and we begin to create reforms to get these entitlements. look, joe, 80% of our debt is now 80% of gdp. as the debt rises, the economic opportunities begin to diminish. so i think there are ways to reform these entitlements that the american people would agree to, but you have to do it with democrats. you can't just slam this stuff through -- well, you wouldn't get it through. so there's interest in this. >> well, you know, john, also, and you've been talking about this for decades. i've now been talking about it for decades. we have to reform the entitlements -- >> yeah. >> -- in the united states. it is going to bankrupt this country. but what message does it send to americans that the only

entitlement system that we actually look at are for the poorest and the truly disadvantaged among us? don't we have to, like you said, if we're going to look at medicaid reform and cuts, we're also going to have to look at medicare and social security at the same time. >> and i don't -- i think, joe, look, we were able to reduce the growth of medicaid in ohio from 9% to 3%, and we didn't basically do it by cutting. we reformed. we let mom and dad stay in their own home rather than being pushed in a more expensive nursing home if they were able to stay in their own home. we drove more competition among the medicaid providers. look, when you think about social security, for example, the default option could be something along the lines of managed care rather than fee for service, which is more expensive. on social security, you start the baby boomers at a slightly lower level and you begin to index for wages, rather than wages and prices. that's not like some unbelievable hard thing. and this is something that i

think the people would -- if we could explain it to them, that as the debt in america rises and is a higher and higher percentage of our gross domestic product, in other words, as the debt is gobbling up more and more of our economy, then you don't get economic growth. people want to grow. they want their kids to have jobs. this is not that complicated. but it's complicated by politics inside the parties and between the parties. >> governor, it's sam stein here. when mitch mcconnell is trying to put together the second iteration of his health care bill, he put out a package of about $45 billion in opioid recovery relief and research funding. that was designed to woo recalcitrant republicans to the bill. i'm wondering now that that bill is likely shoved, do you think he should spend that $45 billion anyway? >> i think you need to have a comprehensive program. look, i mean right now we have -- we spend almost a billion dollars a year fighting

opiates. that's why i fought so hard for medicaid expansion. and this is a complicated conversation, but the fact is i don't want medicaid expansion just to be yanked away. it can be -- we can deal with that in a reform method a little bit farther down the road as long as we give governors flexibility. no, i don't think you ought to start throwing more money. with the program that's in place now, we feel we're in a position where we can manage it. >> governor, more broadly than health care, if you were writing a history book about the trump administration, what would you say would be kind of the first couple paragraphs of the first six months? >> well, i don't write the kind of best sellers that you right, halperin. i believe that donald trump does best when he goes to his populist instincts rather than an ideological approach. that to me is what makes the most amount of sense. all this stuff is like republicans lose. you know what, isn't it a great thing that republicans looked

over the cliff and saw that there were a lot of people that were going to be hurt and they pulled back and said let's do this in a more reasonable, rationale way, because no one in america doesn't think those exchanges need to be fixed. you know, instead of all this he won, she lost, this, this, it's all nonsense. knock it off. get this country on the right track before we end up hurting many, many people in this country, because we can't fix anything in washington. >> hey, governor, let's swing back to your populist instincts that you just referenced. you were talking about the pharmaceutical companies a couple of minutes ago. in 2008 and 2009 the economy collapses, congress gets to work, they pass the dodd-frank bill, they crack down on the big banks and everybody is sort of relatively happy. the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance conglomerates in this country rule more people's lives equally, i think, as much as the big banks. how come nothing is ever done to make sure we don't have to pay $600 for a pill and $8,000 for

an insurance policy? >> well, i think they're powerful, number one. number two, we all know that we want the development of pharmaceuticals, we want the research and development. but there was a disturbing article in "the new york times" the other day that said that pharmaceutical companies are sending more money on stock buy-backs than they are on r & d, at least some of the companies. that's what we're seeing in the country, more and more companies instead of investing to create higher productivity, they're doing this thing, this stock buy-backs which gives you a little sugar up front because you make your stock price go up. i mean at the end we need to make sure that i as a governor have more leverage to negotiate lower prices, and we need more competition in the pharmaceutical industry. as to why they don't do it in washington, it seems as though they have a lot of influence on both parties. we don't want to kill them, obviously. we want those drugs to be developed. but we need to bring about a system that's far more competitive than what we see.

>> well, and you're talking about a competitive system, talking about having more free market forces in that system. you said earlier we need to actually reward quality and not quantity. >> yeah. >> i've got a personal experience from a hospital in your state, the cleveland clinic. i had a terrible back injury, had back surgery, and when my back went out, i didn't walk for four or five months back in 2004. and i was in cleveland when i had my problems. they took me to the cleveland clinic. they said we've got the greatest spine surgeon in america here, you're going to love him. he comes in and looks at me and says you're going to hate me. but you know, you're going to do what dogs do when they get hurt. you're going to go in the corner, you're going to stay there. i'm not going to operate on you now because you've already had one operation and you'll have four more until the time you're 60. so you're going to do nothing. and i sat there going this is the best spine surgeon? but he knew the outcome would be better for me.

i don't have those problems now and he is exactly right. i' i've talked to other doctors since. if he'd had the operation on me, i would have had three or four fusions and it would have gone badly. all the other doctors i talked to at the time wanted me to have surgery because that's how they got paid. that's how they got their fees. >> i was at the cleveland clinic yesterday, believe it or not, and there were people that came from overseas to take a look at what the clinic does. it's a remarkable place. it's patient-centered health care. number two, it's quality, it's not quantity. interestingly enough, the doctors i'm sure are highly compensated, but they don't get paid for more procedures. the incentives are taking care of the patient and the fact is at the clinic it's all about quality, it's not about quantity. that's why people over the world go to the cleveland clinic. so this whole health care system needs to be reformed because as it costs more and more, you know

what happens? people get rationed. we see rationing already and those who are the weakest get the most amount of rations. that's not acceptable in our country. we can do all this, folks, if we just knock off the ego and all the politics. we can fix these things. i know it. god bless. >> i agree. i love his hope. john kasich, thank you very much. and joe, the president's latest tweet moments ago. the republicans never discuss how good their health care bill is and it will get even better at lunchtime. the dems scream death as ocare dies. your thoughts? final thoughts? >> i mean how do you -- how do you really improve upon what the president said -- >> it was so good when kasich was so hopeful. >> so the president is going to come to us and they're going to make memories that last a

lunchtime because that's about the length of his attention span when it comes to pushing this republican health care bill. now listen, the republicans have a very difficult job ahead of them because they have a president that is not consistent, so it is going to be up to the senate to figure out how to move forward. the house will have to figure out how to cobble together a coalition as well, so we'll see how that goes. it's a very difficult job for house legislators. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> i better take the baton, mika appears to be speechless. hey there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning we're talking about the second meeting revealed. a previously undisclosed sideline huddle, president trump spoke again with vladimir putin at the g20 with only a russian government translator there. >> all of america's principal allies, they found it