respectfully as i think anybody can. i think if you talk to the wardens, they'll tell you i have been -- i gave them my word. i believe in the jury system. i have honored their verdict. i have not complained for nine years. all i have done is try to be helpful and encourage the guys around me. hey, man, do your time. fight in court. and don't do anything that's going to extend your time. >> again, the first possible date for release, october 1st. so there's still some time for him to submit the plans of what he plans to do once he gets out. chris? >> katie, thank you for that. that's going to do it for me this hour. i'm chris jansing. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. 4:00 and we have been covering breaking news in the last hour. o.j. simpson has been granted parole and will go free as early as october 1st. after serving nearly nine years in a nevada prison for stealing

sports memorabilia. during the closely watched parole hearing the 70-year-old former football star said he had no intent to commit a crime and that he'd quote, done his time. now turning to a blockbuster day in political headlines, starting with the 50 minute "new york times" interview that president donald trump gave yesterday about musing he wishing he had a do over when it came to his attorney general, jeff sessions. his beef -- the recusal from the russia investigation. we'll talk to the reporter who was inside the room and peter's voice is the first you will hear after the president's. >> sessions gets the job. right after he gets the job he recuses himself. >> was that a mistake? >> well, sessions should have never recused himself. and if he -- if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me before he took the job and i would have picked somebody else. >> he gave you no heads up at all? >> zero.

how do you take a job and then recuse yourself? if he would have recused himself before the job i would have said, thanks, jeff, but i'm not going to take you. it's extremely unfair and that's a mild word to the president. >> peter baker, before we talk, a remarkable job by you and your colleagues. i want to play attorney sessions' response this morning. >> i have the honor of serving as attorney general. it's something that goes beyond any thought i would have ever had for myself. we love this job. we love this department. and i plan to continue to do so as long as that is appropriate. >> how do you feel like you can effectively serve from here on out if you don't have the confidence of the president? >> we're serving right now. the work we're doing today is the kind of work that we intend to continue. >> peter baker, congratulations

on the interview. the transcript if i didn't have any names or headers on it could lead a few missing pages from a veep script or maybe "house of cards." i wonder what the reason is for him being angry that sessions didn't stay on and head up the russia investigation? what did he want from sessions as someone who might have overseen the investigation and stayed involved and stayed loyal? >> well, clearly he wants to keep control over the investigation. i think the idea that the attorney general is independent and shouldn't be involved in something that -- you know, investigates his own president's campaign is not something in president trump's experience. he wants to control the investigation. he controls its through the attorney general, his attorney general suddenly steps aside. then puts in charge a deputy attorney general that donald trump -- president trump didn't know. remember he asked him who's your deputy, he said it's a federal attorney, rod rosenstein from

baltimore. president trump says baltimore, there aren't any democrats in baltimore -- aren't any republicans in baltimore. so he had this idea that the attorney general should be staying loyal to the president, controlling this investigation clearly from that perch. because jeff sessions steps aside and believes the -- and says to rosenstein, you get the appointment of a special council by rosenstein, robert mueller, who's not in a direct sense answering to the president. >> and he made clear -- he sort of laid bare his ignorance about the fbi and he sort of harkened back to the time when the fbi also essentially reported to the president. did you get a sense of what he was -- what he was sort of wishing for or reaching for or what sort of structure he had in mind before he realized how it really is? >> yeah, he does have an older view of how government is

supposed to work. especially since the watergate era we had this idea that the fbi is supposed to be at least somewhat inoculated from politics as much as possible. at the same time, dual hat as a top law enforcement officer of the nation, meant to be independent of politics, at least to the extent that's possible. that's a system that doesn't clearly resonate with president trump. he was talking about the days that used to be. you know, before those kind of changes. and i think that he looks at jeff sessions as part of his team. he should be on the team. he's a member of the cabinet. i appointed him. why is he stepping aside on this important issue? >> yeah, let me read the quote because it stuck out to me last night. i know it was one of the things youed had been asked about. the fbi person really reports directly to the president of the united states. do you think he thinks that chris wray will report directly to him on investigations? >> well, that's the way he

treated james comey when he was director of the fbi. now, chris wray his nominee for fbi director whose nomination cleared the judiciary committee unanimously, that's not how he sees the job. if anybody tries to you know interfere in a political way he'd try to talk him out of it and if he couldn't then he'd resign. that's not how the new fbi director looks at it. the fbi director is not a member of the cabinet, not, you know, not seen as a political figure in today's age. that's what james comey found so uncomfortable about his relationship with president trump because they had several one-on-one conversations that he had never had with president obama when he was operating as the fbi director in the last administration. >> yeah. obviously, chris wray will have the benefit of watching the public demise of jim comey. he's now testified what all the encounters were like and he

talked about a former fbi director, bob mueller. i'm going to play a part of the conversation about what he viewed inbounds and out of bounds and drawing some lines around about appropriate scope for the special counsel investigation. >> if mueller is looking at your finances unrelated to russia is that a red line? >> would that be a breach -- >> i would say yeah, i would say yes. i mean it's possible that a condo -- i sell a lot of condo units and somebody from russia who buys a condo. i can't answer that question, i don't think it's going to happen. >> well, i'm guessing if the special counsel's mission is to look into any ties with russia, there is certainly a lot of questions because he rose to politics through a business background as did his son-in-law, as did his whole

family isn't this an obvious area that the investigation would probe? >> we asked if it was businesses not related to the russia part of it. so in effect he was drawing a red line around russia saying this is supposed to be about russia. if they look into businesses not related to that that's a violation. >> but you have lived in russia. i mean, in russia, they don't -- i mean, vladimir putin is very, very wealthy. not because of his getcades long service in government. but because in russia there's no separation between life in government and the acquisition of wealth. do you think president trump understands on the russian side you have to follow the money? >> yeah. there's cutouts, a lot of the russians have their money in cyprus or other places. you can't say it's russian money, it's murkier than that. the important thing is not where he was drawing the line. i think it was the fact that he was drawing the line.

what he's saying is there are limits to what i'm going to put up with from the special counsel and if the special counsel crosses them wherever that may be, you know, he was leaving open the idea he would take action. the president of the united states can order the justice to dismiss it, and if there are conflicts of interest. that's why you heard him say a lot in the interview talk about the conflicts of interest -- he used that phrase again and again that bob mueller and his staff already in his view have. so that predicate is laid out there should he ever decide to take action. but i think this is a warning to mueller to say this is as far as i want you to go and no further. >> peter i want to put you on the spot about a couple of things that just stood out to me as stark reminders. just how unconventional this white house operates. it is true that the only recording of the entire 50 minute conversation belongs to "the new york times," there was no official stenographer in the

room as there usually is? >> you're right, there was no official stenographer in the room, except for the communications director. she did have a tape recorder of her own. we tape recorded it as well. so the white house does have its own recording of this. but you're right, it was a very unconventional way of doing it. if you were in the white house you would have sat in on the interview and a number of your colleagues would have, and there would have been a stenographer who would have kept an official record of it. so i think that's caused some consternation in the white house since then. people were rushing around after the interview to say, what did he say because they knew pretty quickly this is going to cause an issue with attorney general sessions and so on. this is the way that the president likes to handle things. this is his white house, he decides the way he wants to do it. >> did he call you guys? i don't mean to put you on the spot about the back drop of this, but you raised the point they were running around after

the fact trying to find out what he said. was it a surprise? >> it wasn't a surprise. we made the point to him that it would be better if we could have a chance to -- some of us had not met him. mike schmidt who is covering the issues as -- you know, law enforcement reporter, national security reporter hadn't met him. he wrote the comey stories and my fabulous partner on the white house beat does know him really well and she came along with us. it was a mutual thing where we had talked about wanting to have a chance to talk to him, ask him some questions. he had expressed some interest and the staff had expressed the interest in meeting the reporters he hadn't met, but were writing articles about him. >> i heard one of your colleagues describe him as extremely upbeat. did you get a sense -- i don't -- for all of his flaws i don't think he fakes its very well. did you get a sense of why he was so upbeat when he was trashing his attorney general,

when he was sort of illustrating his ignorance of how independent the fbi is supposed to be? what was he so happy about that? talking to the press, mixing it up? >> well, it's funny he had come from the lunch with the republican senator, about 50 of them. we sat down in the oval office. he was upbeat and relaxed. he was conversational. he was confident and comfortable. you wouldn't know this is a president who at 36% at the ratings and lost his big battle over health care. he thinks he can manage to revive that bill. he was upbeat about the economy. the stock markets are high and so forth. he's not the fiery figure that we see in public and when we did raise russia and it was us who brought it up, he more than happily went into the topic and he said some sharp things. you know president bush he had

his moments of tension with ashcroft over surveillance. i can't imagine him saying out loud some of the things that president trump said but this is the way he operates. he says what he thinks he doesn't hold back. >> i had heard he had been unhappy about the recusal weeks back so kudos from getting that from the president and on the record. when we come back, paul manafort and jared kushner are coming to capitol hill. senator john mccain is diagnosed with brain cancer, but so far it's the senator himself and his family doing all of the comforting. we'll share a moving update from his daughter when we return. >> to my good friend, john mccain. you asked me how he's doing. he's called me three times this morning. no more woe is me, lindsey. he is yelling at me to buck up. so i'm going to buck up.

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i opposed jeff sessions for attorney general of the united states, but let's be clear. his recusing himself is simply following the law. that is what the department of justice requires. he's followed the rules. and for donald trump to say, gee, i really wanted an attorney general who wouldn't follow the rules is just like i said it's one more example. donald trump has only one thing in mind. and that is how can everything profit donald trump? >> the world officially on its

side with democratic senator elizabeth warren defending jeff sessions. joining peter baker is mark leibovitz and former -- oh, this is a television exclusive. not just -- wait for this. former rnc chairman and former analyst michael steele. and chief of staff to al gore and joe biden and the other michael steele. they have never been together. in full disclosure when i have hear from the other, i heard my name, no, i'm not on -- >> it's true. >> television history right he. >> i'm bringing people together. ron, we have to get to you right away on just how unconventional it is for a president to dis his own attorney general for following the law. >> it is unprecedented.

cows are flying defending jeff sessions but i worked in the white house council's office and there are tensions between a white house and a justice department. >> sure. >> for the president to say to "the new york times," hey, this guy shouldn't have followed the law is unprecedented. what's more, he also ignores what happened here. jeff sessions this information came out during his confirmation process that he had the meetings. >> right. >> he had forgotten about the meetings so he recused himself. this is a case of jeff sessions doing for what he was supposed to do and for trump to attack him and the former head of the fbi and the former former head of the fbi, you know, it's just lawless. >> you make a good point. let me put up a list of all the people that donald trump attacked in the interview with peter baker and his colleagues. he attacked jeff sessions, sitting attorney general. he attacked rob rosenstein for being from baltimore. i'll let the man from maryland respond later. he attacked james comey for allegedly using the unverified

dossier and he attacked andrew mccabe for having a wife involved in domestic politics and he attacked bob mueller who exercised the right of free speech by donating to democrats. what do we need democrats for if we have a president attacking the department of justice? >> it's a list of people who investigated president trump and it's just a consistent pattern. president trump doesn't want to be accountable under the law, he thinks none of the rules apply to him. he thinks the people should be able to shut this down. that's not the way that our system works or at least not the way it works so far. >> michael steele to my left, let me get you to weigh in on this really serious aspect of this which is what ron raises. he's repelled by the idea that's

a rule of law that might apply to him and his family. >> yeah. it appears that way. you know, i'm sitting here thinking and listening to the president and this "new york times" interview going okay, so how much worse do you think it would be if the attorney general had not recused himself? >> right. >> and that's another layer of crazy that's going to be added into a pot that's already bubbling over with crazy. so the president is really sort of self-centered on this. this is all about protecting the cocoon he's building within the white house himself. that no one seems to be able to penetrate with anything remotely close to common sense when it comes to the process, the application of that process and the role that the individuals from rosenstein and others and by the way, there are a whole lot of good republicans in the state of maryland, rod rosenstein happens to be one of them. so don't be surprised about that, bro. don't get confused. but this seems to be something that is again really focused on the man himself. not the office of the

presidency, not the impact that it's having on that office. and more importantly what it means to the country. >> mark leibovitz you spent time with hope hicks who was the white house staffer, the only staffer in the room for the expansive interview with peter and maggie and michael schmidt, right? >> yeah. >> mark, you ran into the president and he was watching some cable news or recorded cable news. i wonder what you make of this sort of letting loose which is obviously what the president feels free to do. it's on the heels -- he feels good. i accept and can hear in the audio for myself what peter and his colleagues have attested to. did you see that when you were in the west wing for your remarkable piece and do you think that that's because of just the confidence that this will blow over, or do you think it's because he knows what we all come to learn, his base doesn't care about any of this?

>> well, i think it's a combination of those things. i mean, in fairness i didn't -- i didn't spend as long with the president as peter did. and also, it was -- i mean, i wouldn't say he let loose. it was a brief unscheduled visit. i was going to visit hope. she walked me in. i wasn't planning on it. he was watching i guess a tivo recording of "fox & friends" from four hours earlier. >> of course he was. >> i will say this. i'm personally -- i like that he lets loose. i have a horse in this that i'm a member of the press and i think that it's probably a more candid rendering than you normally get from the white house press office. you can say the tweets are the same way. obviously this is problematic if you work for him, you're looking for a more disciplined messaging operation. but i'm personally speaking as someone who observes and covers him. do not object to that at all. i think it's actually -- i guess i call it refreshing. obviously what he says, the

substance can be very problematic and upsetting to a lot of people. but it seems to be his style. >> and he -- he went over and spent some time alone with vladimir putin the second meeting at the g20, at the couples dinner, causing a lot of headaches for the white house. i want to quote from the great reporting in the a.p., we can't give all the love to the "new york times" today. that trump's embrace of russia is making top advisers wary and salama reported that previously undisclosed conversation at the g20 which occurred a few hours after the official bilateral meeting raised red flags with advisers concerned by the president's tendency to shun protocol. according to two u.s. officials and three top foreign officials. i mean, at the substance, obviously all reporters like a principal -- i mean we'll talk about john mccain later. that's what they loved about john mccain and the straight talk express but it's the content i guess. not the process of what the

president says in his affinity for russia that's making his own advisers concerned according to this a.p. report. >> including mcmaster. when i got that headline in the story yesterday from "the new york times" i was scrolling. yeah, sessions he shouldn't have had the job. yeah, he'll threaten mueller. oh, my god, he talked about the magnitsky act with vladimir putin. >> why that's such a big deal? >> because the magnitsky act let's say they talked about adoption that the president is interested in quote/unquote. it's about sanctions, it's about the magnitsky act. it's about 44 sanctions against 44 men that vladimir putin is desperate to have lifted and in retaliation to the magnitsky act he banned americans from adopting innocent russian children. americans by the way were adopting russian children at a larger number than any other country around the world. so it tells you what kind of man what kind of strong man vladimir

putin is if his retaliation for that is harming innocent children. that's what stood out to me from that article. >> and michael steele, the same question. just about the substance of his foreign policy and his -- i would say affection for vladimir putin personally. well, sometimes you can get business done. but no evidence of that. >> while it's entertaining this unscripted venting of the presidential id, this lack of planning isn't helpful in terms of getting things done for the american people. either on the foreign policy side or in terms of domestic policy like health care, tax reform, et cetera. that's what the big draw back of this entertaining presidential style is. >> peter baker t last word on whether there's any awareness that some of his -- the way he lets loose if you will his sort of uninhibited thoughts on twitter and with you guys, that it makes it difficult for the

republicans when its comes to agenda? >> well, this is the pattern we have seen for six months of the presidency. i think he understands that's the way that people sees it and that he understands what he's doing. but he's decided this is what got him to the white house in the first place. the sort of candid bracing style. the idea of fighting is not something that he finds bad. he finds good. he thinks that his supporters want him to fight. they fight the system. even if the system is his own attorney general. so i don't think he looks at it as a draw back. i think he looks at it as part and parcel of his political identity and strength with his base. he's not expanded beyond that base. he has in fact caused problems with congress. but this is his style. he's going to stick to it. >> health care reform be damned. peter baker, thank you and congratulations on the piece. up next, senator john mccain in the fight for his life as well-wishers pour in from across the aisle and from the world. he doesn't intend to be away

from the senate for long. >> he's a good friend. we agree and we disagree. but he keeps his word. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ (vo) living with ammonia odor? not a pretty picture. (vo) luckily, tidy cats lightweight with new ammonia blocker tackles tough odor, even ammonia. so long stankface! (vo) ammonia like that? there's a tidy cats for that.

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i talked to john twice yesterday. truth of the matter is that no one saw this diagnosis coming. you know, i started to get a little emotional on the phone because i can't think of anything i have done since 1999 politically and any ways personally that was worth doing without john. so that sort of hit me last night. that just -- i can't think of anything i have done. any fight that i have been in that i haven't been with him and he hasn't been with me. >> that was one of the three amigos to describe graham and mccain and lieberman. his family and friends are reeling from the news.

president george w. bush described in an account we'll hear over and over again. writing, i called senator john mccain this morning to wish him well and encourage him in his fight instead he encouraged me. similar sentiments were expressed by the colleagues. >> john is tough and has been in every fight and the idea that he's facing something like this is just a shock to everyone here. he's a good man. i know he'll be strong in this fight. the fight for his life. >> he's a statesman. we all know that. when he talks to people from both sides of the aisle, listens, that's all we need. >> my favorite john mccain story is when we will go to foreign meetings and they will always look at him, of course he's the head of the delegation. he speaks first. then they look to lindsey and then he says no to whatever foreign leader it is. senator klobuchar is the lead, she will go first. she has done that many times to -- stood up for people and now it's our time to stand up

for him. >> senator mccain tweeted this morning i greatly appreciate the outpouring of support. unfortunately for my sparring partners in congress i'll be back soon. so stand by. john mccain only half jokingly refers to you and other members of the media as the base but the truth is he likes most of you. you have covered him for a long time. you have covered the people who worked for him for a long time. i think you have written more detailed profiles of the senator and his staff than anybody i can think of our find today. talk about john mccain. >> in fairness, i think he described us as his base in 2004. this was when he actually liked the press probably more than he does now. he also called most of us jerks, half jokingly, half lovingly. look, the mood around here since this diagnosis came down in the last 24 hours or so has been really, really kind of one of shock. i was on the hill earlier. you heard about people seem really blue over and also the people who have known him.

i think especially in light of the current politics what we're seeing now people might -- you know, might grab a little closer to people who have been around a while institutions and the senate, people who worked across the aisle. people who have a belief in government, in america and who have greatly served. i think this is just a real blow. i think there's an amazing echo to ted kennedy having the exact same diagnosis pretty much about -- you know, eight or nine years ago. unbelievably right going down to the wire of the passage of obamacare. so there's a lot of synergy there, but mostly a lot of sadness. >> everyone i reached out -- i reached out to one of the three amigos and i talked to the long time staffers. they all talk about -- i think they'll say in public what they say privately if there's anyone who's going to come back after this diagnosis, this is the guy. i mean, you and i talked earlier today about how this is the one person for whom you really can't call any one thing the fight of

his life. because for most people being held a prisoner of war during vietnam would be the fight of his life. running for president and losing twice is a fight of his life. when you call him a fighter and tough it's no joke. >> it is amazing. i mean, i think particularly e the -- just the story of his p.o.w. ordeal. i remember during his convention acceptance speech in 2008, i mean, this is a story that -- you know, we had been hearing for years. he had been on the national stage for years, it was well known. it was extensively written about. it was the kind of story once he told it or it was told from the podium in st. paul that night it was giving people chills over and over again. you keep thinking what would i have done in that situation? i -- you know, would i have been that strong, of course not. i mean, just the mythology of that story and how he's been able to propel it into politics and some very, very courageous and unpopular fights through his career has been something that i

think, you know, people have been very appreciative. we have seen on both sides. obviously, you know, this is the nature of a fight like this is very, very different. you know, there are a lot more variables and a lot less you can control. but i think there's clearly a lot of people rooting for him and we'll see how he's able to, you know, sort of weave this into his everyday close over the next few months. >> he's one of the strongest voices in the senate against vladimir putin. i noted last night after the news broke that lindsey graham sent out a feisty tweet about how ending the cia program to arm the syrian rebels better not be dead. he leads a small but vital coalition in the senate against vladimir putin. >> well, he's sort of been the stalwart when it comes to defending democracy when it comes to supporting dissidents. when it comes to people like myself, political refugees who came from the former soviet union. human rights violations is something that he strongly spoke out against. he spoke out against rex tillerson in some of the moves he's made in the state

department lately when it comes to our relations, with countries that abuse human rights. when i first met him, i told him my story about where he came from in the former soviet union -- >> i'm sure you have friends in common. he's a household name in that part of the world. >> you have people like bill browder who turned to him when we talked about the magnitsky act earlier. its could not have passed without john mccain. whenever we hear rumblings about this administration sort of turning its eye against human rights violations, we said that john mccain is right there. lindsey graham will save us. >> i want to read quickly before we go to break something his daughter put out yesterday. my love for my father is boundless and i do not wish to be in a world without him. he's a warrior at dusk one of the greatest americans of our

age and a worthy heir to his father and grandfather's name, but he's my strength, my example, my refuge, my confidant, my rock, my hero. my dad. we'll be right back. you doyou'll see whatet but in you're really made of. after five hours of spinning and one unfortunate ride on the gravitron, your grandkids spot a 6 foot banana that you need to win. in that moment, you'll be happy you partnered with a humana care manager and got your health back on track. because that banana isn't coming home with you until that bell sings.

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have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. tylenol® jared kushner and paul manafort and donald trump jr. could all car pool up to capitol hill next week as the russia investigation prepares to take another big step forward. kushner is expected to talk with the staff of the senate intel committee on monday in a closed door session. president trump's son-in-law was spotted this afternoon meeting with senator graham. and on wednesday the senate judiciary committee had invited paul manafort and donald trump jr. to testify before them. joining me now is nbc news intel and national security reporter who's been away too long from the 4:00 p.m., ken dilanian, i miss you. you're a sight for sore eyes in asp aspen. what do we know and do you think

you'll show up? >> so in terms of don jr., and paul manafort nobody thinks they're going to show up at that senate judiciary committee hearing. they have been invited. they haven't agreed to come. and you know legal experts say it would be crazy for them to do that. to testify in public when they are under criminal investigation and anything they say, you know, as they say can and will be used against them. >> even i know that. so jared kushner is a different story though. he's expected to be interviewed by senate intel committee staff. what does that mean? >> that's right. well, legally there's no difference between an interview behind closed doors and a public open hearing. it's a crime -- whether you're under oath or not to lie to congress. and the difference really is that it's not going to be on television. the public's not going to get a chance to see the questions asked and the answers. we rarely hear from jared kushner in public as it is. so it raises question, is this

an attempt to appear to be cooperating and we don't even know for example will we get the transcript of this interview, will it be made public? so many questions. it's surprising that kushner's lawyers would allow him to answer questions even in this limited format. he is in jeopardy. he is under some kind of criminal inquiry by the special counsel. >> right. so ken, at a minimum that would pertain to filling out his sf 86 inaccurately or incomplete information at least twice. what other legal exposure does jared kushner have? >> to be frank, we don't know. but we do know that there have been a series of meetings that kushner has conducted with russians including with that russian bank that was under sanctions that the public doesn't know the full story about. we talked about this on the show before. there are two different stories put out about that. so there are questions about kushner's dealings with russians as there are with other members of the donald trump's team and

he was at the most recently reported meeting with the russian lawyer and the russian lobbyist so no doubt he'll be asked about this. >> ken dilanian, go enjoy some mountain air. see you when you get back to washington. ron, what's the significance -- even if they don't show up but of the committees now officially inviting manafort and don jr. to testify and saying they have been cleared by bob mueller to do so? >> i agree. people shouldn't pop the popcorn yet for watching that wednesday hearing but it's a first step in escalating steps presumably then the committee will then issue a subpoena and compel their attendance. then they will have to come and either answer questions or assert their fifth amendment rights. if you have the president's son and the person who chaired his campaign taking the fifth about that campaign that'll be very significant development. >> you know, back to where we started with the president so defiant and so brazenly saying i was angry that sessions recused

himself, because i didn't want all of the bad things to happen debut i mean, what is the role play by saying crazy things like what he said about jeff sessions yesterday? >> the president is pigpen and the questions about russia are the dirt clouds around his head. the quicker they can answer these, the quicker they can move on to things that matter to the american people but it won't happen if we have the shoes dropping every day and we have a centipede dropping every day. >> is anybody on capitol hill actually scared of the president?

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i have done a good job. people can't even believe if you look at the numbers and what's going on, we're doing a great job. >> that was donald trump there marveling at his own report card in the interview with "the new york times" yesterday and now republicans are meeting again to revise their health care plan went nowhere. this as president trump hits his six month mark with his legislative agenda permanently stuck on pause. the reason one republican senator put it simply in "the new york times" today saying quote, the president scares no one in the senate. not even the pages. a congressional reporter for "the washington post" joins our chat here. do you need to be feared to get anything done or is it better to be respected as someone serious

and knowledgeable about the policy making process? that to me seems to be the snag. >> yeah, you hit it right on the head there. i think that's the question. an believe that elfollow through on messaging and sticking with supporting them on whatever they do. i think the bigger problem here is that republicans on capitol hill don't know if they can predict what donald trump is going to do next and whether or not he's going to come out there and say, hey, this is a healthcare bill thatic support or, by the way, i hate this thing and then tank it in the end. they need some consistency and they're just not seeing it. >> what is 9 purpose then of their rounld the clock meetings about health care? >> well, they're trying to get to some sort of answer. the logic that i'm hearing from some people in mitch mcconnell's inner circle is that if they can just start debate on the bill, then they can give every republican senator a chance to vote on what they want and they can mold a bill in the process. and that's kind of a risky idea, but the hope is that if senator

portman got money for opioids added through an amendment and senator lee got some more flexibility so people could buy insurance across state lines, that somewhere in the middle they would craft a bill that everyone likes. the question, though, is whether or not they can even get to debate at this point. they are down a senator or they expect to be down a senator with senator mccain back in arizona and that means they can really only lose one person to an absence or a no vote and still keep this thing alive. >> i wasn't good at math, but i count at least seven people opposing rt bill, and i haven't heard of any dramatic shifts in the policy guard rails of the bill. so where are they come up with votes? i mean, you can pour in as much money as you want for opioid addiction. it's an important thing to spend as much money as you can on, but the truth is if you cut those people's health care, it's not going to do them any good to get a bed in an addiction treatment center, is it? >> yeah. it doesn't seem like the votes have really changed all that much. i stalked to several people

today who told me that they didn't feel like they were doing much but rehashing old things and trying to find new ways to reconfigure old ideas. i don't see how that gets them to yes, but it is very, very, very difficult to overestimate how much people are worried about anger erg conservatives and anger erg the base. they feel like they were elected to come here to repeal and replace the affordable care act. many of them have voted to do that same thing in the past, and they worry that if they don't follow through, there are going to be huge repercussions down the line electoralel. >> thank you. i feel like if there are repercussions, they deserve them. the truth is republicans voted to repeal obamacare when they knew it would never be signed into law. it's like game of chicken. i'm sorry, but republicans blame. >> no. they did blink. and the fact is, you know, seven years beyond that first moment when they said we're going to go fight for you and repeal and replace, they come to the table with a republican president sitting down rt street with no plan. and so now they think they're going to put together a plan in a very short period of time, and

they're sitting there wondering, well, why is lisa murkowski so upset, why is senator capito so upset? why is rand paul running off and saying these things. well, it's because they have want been a part of this process. and the house system is very different from the senate system. we all know that. the reality of it is no one wants to do the one thing they should do, and that is face two realities. one, obamacare is here and they've got to deal with it as it is. and two, as was noted, put together the pieces where all the players are at the table, all those people who have an interest in health care, get in the room and work it out. that will then free them up to move on to other issues while that process takes care of itself. >> ron, what role does the white house have to play in passing something as huge as reforming health care? >> i agree with what you said a second ago. it's not about president trump not being feared. it's about a view on capitol hill that he just doesn't really know his stuff. i mean, you can't do the art of the deal if you don't know the parts of the deal. and i think that's really his weakness in this process.

he's not charting a consistent course for republicans on the hill to follow. he haled the house bill and then called it mean and said the senate should do something with more heart in it. that's not the kind of leadership you need from the white house. something like this really can't happen in the end without the white house pushing it over the goal line and the president steering the ship a little bit. and that's a big gap here. >> michael steel, really configureel. i worked for a president who tried and failed to reform social security, immigration in a comprehensive way. the foul seems to be undermining his own party's efforts. and at this point six months in finally sort of taking a swipe at using the bully pulpit. >> look, he's totalel late to the party when it comes to health care. he's never shown any interest or facility with the issue. i think what really frustrates senator mcconnell and his team is what we're talking about right now is getting to the debate on had this bill. we don'tment to go into a room like speaker pelosi did and hear read did and spring something on the american people. they want to have a free, open

fair debate where if you want a policy change, you talk to your colleagues, you build a coalition you offer an amendment and you see if it passes or fails. >> talk to your constituents instead of making obamacare more popular than it's ever been. all right. coming up, president donald trump caught on tape being a grandpa. when we come back. surprise! (vo) living with ammonia odor? not a pretty picture. (vo) luckily, tidy cats lightweight with new ammonia blocker tackles tough odor, even ammonia. so long stankface! (vo) ammonia like that? there's a tidy cats for that.

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she speaks fluent chinese. she's amazing. >> that's very impressive. >> she spoke with president xi. went up to him and [ inaudible ] >> honey, can you say a few

words in chinese like i love you, grandpa. >> that's great. >> smart genes. >> that was president donald trump when his granddaughter, jared and eye vang's daughter walked into the oval office during that exclusive interview with "the new york times." i guess that was cute. >> charm, yeah. she's an adorable girl. ivanka, i follow her on instagram. she posts picture on her ids can. i imagine that donald trump loves his grandchildren. >> all right. you're not going to go there. seems to come back to aid similar theme, those genes. >> he can only praise by saying oh, she has good genes. i mean, it's always -- the whole interview is just a textbook exposition on nars simple. you know, curt coban says you're free to talk about anything you want, as long as you're talking about me. and that's kind of that donald trump interview -- >> you just won so many points with your kids for quoting kurt

coban. >> michael steel, where does this leave us humanizing, i spoefr, because his family -- >> his family is his family, and i think everybody appreciates that. and it's less -- it really is in that sense when you're talking to grandkids and all of that, it's less about -- it's really about the man himself. >> right. and what he's doing in the officials right now. >> all right. that's is it for today. thanks for our panel. that does it for our hour. i'm nichole wallace. mtp dale yid starts right now. >> i think you mean michael steel scared, nichole. >> yeah. i'm not good at math. i never know how that works. >> great show today, as always. and if it's thursday, president trump's red line and red meat amid a red scare. are you ready? >> tonight, president trump fight ens his circle of trust. >> essentially, he should have never recused himself. >> i love this department and i