hey there, everyone. i'm jacob. president trump back to his saturday morning tweet storm ritual. ten tweets within just two hours. from his power to pardon to leaks against attorney general jeff sessions, a challenge to repeal obamacare and of course hillary clinton. this just one day after a major shake-up at the white house. sean spicer resigns, wall street financier anthony scaramucci is named communications director and sarah huckabee is now the administration's new press secretary. >> the president's a winner, okay? and what we're going to do is we're going to do a lot of

winning. plus behind closed doors, donald trump jr., jared kushner, and paul manafort will answer questions about russian election meddling during last year's presidential election. that's right. >> and angry protesters demand justice after two police-involved shooting in minneapolis. we are live with the fallout. of course we begin a busy saturday for president trump and his administration, embattled press secretary sean spicer is out. he'd only been in the job for six months before resigning just yesterday. president trump had given spicer a dual role as communications directeder before offering that to one of his closest supporters. listen to what spicer told sean hannity last night. >> the president wanted to add to the team more than anything. i just think it was in the best interest of our communications department and press organization to not have too many cooks in the kitchen. >> joining me now is nbc's kelly o'donnell at the white house with the latest. kelly, i got two questions for

you. number one, what else can you tell us about this shake-up, anybody else on the chopping block and number two, regarding timing with more russia hearings set for later this week, next week, in some measure was the mooch a big shiny object to distract everybody. >> reporter: in terms of any other pending departures, we don't have anything specific but anthony scaramucci said he would take a look at the press operation. there are a number of other employees who are not seen publicly but help in the work of the messaging of all the agencies of the executive branch and working to support the press secretary and deputy press secretary, and many of them came from the republican national committee, where reince priebus and sean spicer previously worked. so, he said he would take a look at that, try to assess his team so we don't have an exact answer to that yet. sean spicer says he will stay in the job until august through the next few weeks to try to help with the transition. so, it is a bit of a turbulent

time. at the same time, there have been rumblings about big-name departures almost from day one around the trump white house. it has just been a churn throughout, questions about whether or not there would be shake-ups at different times. now, with respect to the shiny object, that's something we often are drawn to. we talk about it a lot, it dominated cable news. anthony scaramucci, who has a lot of internal experience doing television, had a compelling briefing where he was answering questions. the first time with we got to see him in this new role. it certain sucked up some of the oxygen. it is its own storyline. it does sort of change the trajectory of some of the messaging that does come out of the trump white house but the russia investigation really runs in its own parallel track in a very serious way with special counsel robert mueller and the committees on capitol hill. so, it might have been helpful to be a distraction for a bit of time, but it certainly doesn't change what's happening on the russia investigation and the

serious way that's unfolding. >> kelly, you wanted to ask you about some news this afternoon. there's rare bipartisan agreement, as a matter of fact, in the house and senate over sanctions legislation that stepny howyer is saying would give russia less room to maneuver. has the administration responded to this news from the afternoon. >> reporter: they have not yet and when it comes to sanctions, you often do see bipartisanship. what is notable here is that there's a concern in congress that because of the president's situation involving russia and some of the concerns about possibly lifting sanctions or working with the russian diplomats here, you remember when the compounds that belonged to russia were taken back by the obama administration, there's been discussion, would those somehow be returned to the russian government. congressments to sort of limit what the trump administration can do by codifying some sanctions and the president has also talked about the iran deal,

which is recertified for the coming year in terms of keeping them to their limits on their nuclear programs. so, it is an important development. one we have not heard any comment yet from the white house. they have a new communications team. so that might be part of it. >> fair enough. nbc's kelly o'donnell at the white house. thanks a lot. new developments in the russia probe as the investigation continues to heat up. according to the "washington post," u.s. spy agencies intercepted conversations of russia's former ambassador to washington, serg kislyak. kislyak told his superiors in moscow that he discussed campaign related matters including policy issues important to moscow with jeff sessions during the 2016 election. but sessions told congress a different story during his confirmation hearing, saying that such talks never happened. >> let me state this clearly, colleagues. i have never met with or had any conversation with any russians

or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election in the united states. >> as i mentioned, president trump went on a tweet storm earlier this morning, denouncing what he called illegal leaks. he said, "a new intelligence leak from the amazon "washington post," this time against ag jeff sessions, these illegal leaks like comey's must stop." this as nbc news reports that jared kushner, paul manafort, and donald trump jr. will be interviewed next week. joining me from colorado is nbc's ken and former clinton campaign foreign policy adviser laura rosenberger. ken, i want to start with you. on its face, this sounds like a very big deal. the russian ambassador reporting back to the kremlin that he and one of donald trump's most prominent earliest supporters, the man who becomes attorney general, discussed the campaign. but you have been cautioning to us that it is important to take this with a grain of salt. how come? >> oh, it is a big deal, jacob, no question about that, but it is important to remember that just because kislyak reported these conversations back to

moscow, doesn't mean they took place. and sessions is adamantly denyi denying them. this isn't the same as the flynn conversations with kislyak which were directly overheard. this is u.s. intelligence intercepting an e-mail or phone call from kislyak back to moscow and it's not unheard of for the russian ambassador or anyone else to misare represent what took place. at the same time, though, donald trump essentially confirmed the authenticity of these intercepts by calling it an illegal intelligence leak so we're pretty certain that the intercepts are what the "washington post" purports them to be and that is a major development and that's something that jeff sessions is under pressure now to refute the idea that he had these conversations. >> ken, let's talk more about this major development whether or not kislyak was pump take faking u.s. intelligence officials, trump told "the new york times" this week that he wouldn't have hired sessions if he knew he was going to recuse himself from the russia probe. sessions said this week he's going to stay on as a.g. is sessions' job on the line at

this point? >> in any normal administration, it would be, right? i mean, when that news broke the other day, almost everyone at this forum was sure that jeff sessions was going to have to resign. but he didn't resign. he's staying in place and you know, it's interesting a lot of people who were very concerned about the russia investigation, robert mueller, are rooting for him to stay in place in a sense because he has recused himself from that investigation. that means the only person that can fire mueller is rob rosenstein so if sessions is out, then trump can potentially replace him with an attorney general who may fire mueller. that's the thinking i've heard at this conference. that's the worry. but it's really unclear what's happening with sessions now and whether he enjoys the confidence of donald trump. >> laura, let me get you in here. how important is this revelation that ken and i have been talking about, about kislyak saying that he and sessions discussed the campaign and as far as you're concerned, is this something to be believed. >> i certainly can't speak to the veracity of any of the reporting but what i would say is i think it's a particularly concerning that the story has continued to change, that we

continue to get different information. we know that the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community is that russia interfered in our election. and it's really critical that for our own national security, we get to the bottom of that. and when we continue to have the trump administration making these kinds of statements, and changing stories, and a lack of transparency, it's hindering that. i think what's interesting is, as ken knows, the -- all of the trump administration national security officials who have been asked about this at aspen have said they do believe that russia did interfere in our election. and what's confusing is why the president of the united states continues to throw doubt on that. and i think that that's something that is going to continue to hinder our own ability to get to the bottom of this. and that's why special counsel mueller's investigation is so important. >> i think as dan coates said during his talk with lester holt, whether it's three or 17 intelligence agencies, nobody objected to the findings of these agencies. ken, let's talk about next week. paul manafort, don junior agreed to be interviewed by the senate

judiciary committee, jared kushner agreed to be interview by the house and senate intel community next week. given the e-mails that we've now all seen, will all of these hearings ultimately come back to some version of the question, you know, why on earth would you take a meeting with somebody who was said to be in writing a, quote, russian government attorney with incriminating information about hillary clinton. >> well, that meeting at trump tower with all those people in the russian lawyer and the russian lobbyist, that will certainly be a major topic at all these interviews. it won't be the only one but it's an important one and the question you raise is the fundamental one. and as a matter of fact, four lawmakers were on a panel here in aspen yesterday and were each asked, would you have taken that meeting and all of them said they would not and three said they would call the fbi. so there's almost nobody in politics that thinks that was a good idea. whether it was a crime is another matter but that's certainly something that house and senate investigators are going to be asking paul manafort, jared kushner, and don junior about. >> before we go, how do you think what we will hear next week in these congressional or i

guess what wae won't hear next week but what congress will hearing during these hearings will affect or overlap with the special counsel's investigation which of course is happening concurrently. >> that's right. as you noted, they are happening concurrently but i think it's important that as congress is looking into this, we keep in mind not only what happened but how we ensure that we prevent this from happening again and i think that when we continue to see new information about how the russians may have operated, i think a lot of people have weighed in, noting how all of the hallmarks of a russian operation and intel operation were part of the -- what we are seeing and now learning about this meeting that happened. and i think that that's a deep concern, again, if our national security and it's really critical that both congress and the special counsel understand the full scope of that so that we can ensure that we are prepared to protect ourselves against this. >> all right, another busy week ahead. thanks to both laura and ken. appreciate it very much. enjoy aspen. there is a call for new leadership in the city of minneapolis. mayor betsy hodges is facing

intense criticism and pressure to step down. protests broke out at her press conference on friday, announcing the resignation of the city's police chief almost a week after a city officer shot and killed an australian woman who had called police for help. this of course in the same city where an officer was acquitted of manslaughter in the shooting death of african-american motorist philando castille. why are protesters so angry with the mayor today? >> reporter: i don't think it's just this very particular case of justine damanod. it's a totality of what people believe with heavy handed police tactics. this has been a stressful week and the mayor had her press conference last night interrupted by a very large, vocal group of protesters calling for her resignation. she asked for the resignation of the police chief yesterday so

that police chief who did say before she was asked to resign yesterday that she did not believe that this woman deserved tock shot. for our viewers who have not follow third-degr followed this story closely, let me give you brief details about what happened because all the public has are really thin details. she called 911 twice from her neighborhood saying she heard a woman in distress, thought it might be a sexual assault in progress. she made a second call. the police finally showed up and when she encountered them at the end of an alliway, there was reportedly a loud sound according to the police officer driving the vehicle, that's when she appeared suddenly and that is when the officer, mohamed noor, apparently opened fire, through and across the body of his partner, sitting in the driver's seat, striking m ms. damond and she died about 20 minutes later. there have not been protests in the street, particularly about this particular killing, but there are a lot of people very upset about it, including her family members in australia.

here's what the mayor finally had to say when she got control of her microphone about the call for change in the police department. listen. >> i share people's frustration about the pace of change in policing and in building community trust and transformational change is difficult. it is uncomfortable. it takes time. >> reporter: so obviously, it is obviously a very stressful tense situation here with city officials and the public at large because so few details are out there and the officer who fired has not spoken to city officials as is his right. >> nbc's ron mott in minneapolis, thanks so much. still ahead, turning the tide in the deep south, can democrats claim the seat once held by attorney general jeff sessions. we are live in alabama as they continue their so-called summer of revival. back in the 90's, when billy wanted to ask madeline out on a date, he would call her corded house telephone and get permission to speak to her.

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welcome back. there is a reason i didn't spend a ton of time in alabama during the 2016 presidential campaign. not much is up for grabs there. it is a deep are red state and should come as no surprise the special election to fill jeff sessions's vacate senate seat is widely looked at as a battle between republicans but alabama democrats see it as an opportunity to bring back their party in a state that, get this, has not had a democratic senator since the 1990s and republicans have recently been hit with numerous scandals and corruption allegations. today, seven of the democratic candidates for the open are hosting a forum to help bolster their party and joining us now is nbc's tammay leitner. you're with one of the co-organizers of the event. >> reporter: i am, jacob. being a democrat in alabama, it has a bit of a negative connotation. but they are looking at this

open senate seat as a chance to once again gain some ground here in this state for democrats. i'm here with sheila gilbert, and sheila, how are you guys going to do that. >> what you see today is a beginning. it really starts. we're having a forum today with the seven candidates that are running for the senate. this is an effort to expose those guys to say what is it you want to do to bring back some action to alabama. and let's get that senate seat. democrats need to capture this senate seat. this is ours. >> reporter: you know, you talked to me earlier about how democrats here in alabama are not necessarily proud to be democrats. a lot of democrats in hiding. how do you change that? >> i don't know. we're trying our best to say, if you just come out of the hiding place and be proud to be a democrat, sometimes they've hidden, there are a lot of them when it comes to election day if they get out to vote. they're more than we see. but what we really want to do is say, just make yourselves known and let's see who you are and let's get back on the band wagon and be proud to be a democrat. >> reporter: and last thing i

want to ask you. you were talking about there being two types of democrats here in alabama. what did you mean by that? >> those that are really outgoing and really want to make some good things happen, parts of grassroots groups and then there's those that almost just don't want to acknowledge the fact that they're democrats. we want to change that. we have a golden opportunity today to get a senate and to capture that senate seat that really belonged to howell heflin. we want to capture the old senate seat. that's a powerful seat and we want it back. >> reporter: there we go. jacob, you heard it. they're hoping to bring out all those closeted democrats and make them proud once again and stand behind their state. >> thanks, tammy. it's going to be interesting to see how many of those seats fill up this afternoon and i'm sure we'll get an update when they do. a new hurdle this weekend in republicans' fight to repeal obamacare. the senate's parliamentarian is challenging three key provisions that appear to violate budget rules. really interesting. one cuts off federal money for planned parenthood.

another blocks subsidies to buy insurance that covers abortions and the third could make people who did not have insurance for a time wait six months. even without the support he needs, leader mitch mcconnell appears set on a vote this week. president trump demanded that republican senators, "step up to the plate." he declared democrats to be obstructionists with no ideas. nothing new about that, i guess. with me now, tom carper of delaware. first and foremost, is the president right when he says democrats like yourself have no ideas? >> i actually quite the contrary. one of the -- i'm a recovering governor. i was governor for '93 to 2001 and we created more jobs in those eight years than any eight years in the state of delaware. and same eight years that bill clinton was president. we create the nurturing environment for job creation. that includes a lot of other things, including some predictability and certainly.

>> you said you're a recovering governor. i want to show pictures from virginia today. check this out. there it is. that's virginia democratic governor terry mcauliffe on the left, commissioning the "uss gerald ford." he told the president, quote, we have got to get something done on health care. i want to work with you. we governorsment to work with you. and he said, call me up. love to hear you. do you see this as a real breakthrough? what do you make of that interchange? >> i'm not sure. if a governor sent a letter earlier this week to the president, not to the president, to mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer in the senate. basically and i met with the governors a week ago today and the national governors meeting and we talked about how a path forward on health care. here's what we need to do. number one, hit the pause button. there's a -- we have every state has an exchange where people can go get health care coverage for those who don't have the

coverage, they are being destabilized by this administration. we need to do three things to stabilize the exchanges. make it cheer that the individual mandate or something as good as a t individual mandate is going to be there, and come up with a good reassurance plan to reduce the risk for the insurers and make it clear that the subsidies that are used to reduce for lower income foen folks, they're not going to go away. we stabilize the exchanges, bring down premiums by as much as 25% to 35%, that helps people and the federal government. and then go back to regular order. before john mccain left to have his surgery, he and i talked a little bit last week about regular order. hearings, people introduce evidence, introduce a bill. have a hearing. bipartisan hearing. have governors come and testify on that. cbo, do it in the light of day. let people offer amendments, bipartisan amendments and we call that regular order. we need to do that. >> not to be debbie downer, another show in this building

would say, but what are the odds that your republican colleagues in the senate would be interested in any of those suggestions. >> i think any number of them and there's a lot of governors that we should do that, encouraging us to do that. i've talked to a number of our republican and democratic colleagues who would like to do that as well. i can't speak for the house but in the senate, we still kind of like each other. there's a desire o work together. a lot of us are former governors and we tend to be more pragmatic and less political so there's an undercurrent of goodwill. we need to get by this road bump and to get by this vote, have the vote, and then let's move on and do the kinds of things that i talked about. during that period of time with hearings and so forth, figure out the things in the affordable care act that need to be preserved and figure out those which need to be fixed, and let's do that in a bipartisan way. democrats just -- this can't a democrat or republican win. it's got to be a win for the country. that's what the people want. >> the people may want it. i'm not so sure that members of congress necessarily all want

it. the congressman from the great state -- the senator from the great state of delaware. great to see you on this saturday. >> thank you, jacob. finally free. listen to this. after serving nine years in prison, parole has been granted to o.j. simpson. did you tune? ? what happens next and what about the millions he still owes to the families of nicole brown and ronald goldman's families. ray's always been different. last year, he said he was going to dig a hole to china. at&t is working with farmers to improve irrigation techniques.

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but what if, one day, there was a white flower for alzheimer's first survivor? what if there were millions of them? join us for the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's. register today at alz.org/walk. o.j. simpson won his bid thursday for an early release from prison on parole, but now that simpson is back in the spotlight, what happens next for the former football star? simpson told the nevada parole board he plans to move back to florida to be near his two children and has no issues living in the public eye. >> i've been recognized ever since i was 19 years old. i'm sure bruce will tell you, wherever we've been, it's always a crowd. it's not new to me.

rarely have i even in the last 20 years -- rarely have i even had any person give me any negative stuff in the street. people give you looks and everything, but i'm pretty easily approachable. i dealt with it my whole life, and i really don't foresee any problem dealing with the public. >> i'm joined now by msnbc analy analyst katie fang. reports say he's already been removed from the general population there in nevada. what is o.j. simpson need to do to ensure that everything goes smoothly for him these next couple months. >> well, if he gets on october 1, which is the earliest date that he can get out and if the interstate compact is recognized and frankly if florida takes him, he'll move here to my home state of florida and live amongst us down here and he has to keep his nose clean. he can't drink to excess. he can't have any weapons.

though drugs. random searches and drug screens, going to have to report monthly to a parole officer for the next five years. if he makes it to 2022, without violating his parole, then he is completely scot-free from any responsibility to the criminal justice system. >> katie, o.j. simpson sill owes millions of dollars to the surviving family members of ron goldman, nicole brown-simpson, after a civil court found him liable for the wrongful death of both of them. how will he be able to live, ultimately, financially if every dollar is going to those families. >> it's not going to. that's kind of the travesty, depending on who you speak with. he allegedly collects a $25,000 a month pension from the nfl, a screen actors guild pension that may contain as much as $4 million or $5 million and a personal pension. under the employee retirement security act, a federal law, pensions, defined benefit plans, 401(k)s, those are completely immune from collections efforts from families like the goldmans

and nicole brown. allegedly, he is going to not work. he says, i'm not going to work. but you know, o.j. loves to be in the limelight and he's a moving target and if he does work, those wages will be garnished but those pensions are safe. >> if he stays out of the limelight, how is he going to make any money in the first place. he's a celebrity figure, got to spend the next five years living under the terms of his parole release. what will he not be allowed to do? >> well, you know, because, like i say, i think he's a moving target, listen, you run a stop sign, you have a negative interaction with the cops, you know what might happen? he might get arrested if you do anything where you breathe the wrong way, unfortunately for somebody like o.j. simpson, because he is so recognizable, maybe he gets into another road rage incident like he did in 2001, he will get arrested, it will be deemed to be a violation of his parole and he's going to have to fight to keep himself from going back to nevada. >> thank you so much. good to see you. coming up, from the outside

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welcome back. you're watching msnbc. i'm jacob soboroff. to moscow now where international security crises consumed much of our own keir simmons' exclusive interview with foreign minister sergey lavrov. the russian foreign minister picked at every bit of u.s. foreign policy from north korea to u.s. military bases, all over the world, nbc's keir simmons has the exclusive report. >> reporter: good afternoon. beyond the political rhetoric, if you like, that we heard from sergey lavrov in this interview, he also had some really blunt messages for the u.s. on some of the most tense regions of the world. north korea, he pushed back very strongly on a suggestion by the

cia director this week that america might be in favor of regime change in north korea. take a listen to that, jacob. >> we don't believe in regime change anywhere. i hear very enthusiastic voices in the united states, including in some parts of this administration, that the patience has been over and they must do something, because the threat is growing and growing, and intercontinental ballistic missile was launched, but a month ago, i think, a month and a half, maybe, secretary mattis answering the question, bluntly stated that the use of force against north korean regime would mean a disaster, a humanitarian disaster in the region. >> reporter: and sergey lavrov had a tough message, too, on syria, where the peace deal that was brokered by the u.s., russia, and jordan does appear to be holding, but he appeared to suggest in this interview

that while america should be in syria to fight isis, when that battle is over, the u.s. should actually withdraw from syria. take a listen to that. >> after the country has been liberated, the presence of the foreign troops, foreign bases on the soil of syria would be only legitimate with the consent of the syrians themselves. >> to be clear, the principle that the only forces that should be allowed to intervene in syria are those that have been sanctioned by president assad would suggest that only russia, iran, and perhaps hezbollah should be allowed to intervene in syria. >> strictly speaking, gentlemen. >> reporter: that's the situation america and its allied in the region would never accept, a situation, jacob, where iran and russia kind of was able to freely operate within syria with the agreement of president assad and the u.s. not so. >> and absolutely fascinating conversation.

nbc's keir simmons in moscow. thanks so much. joining me now is nieles. good to see you both. nile, it's been a tough week for jeff sessions. first the president's "new york times" interview where he said he was thegeneral were recusing himself on russia and then "the washington post" report that he allegedly discussed these campaign-related matter with the russian ambassador, according to intercepts which is contrary to what he said. you think he's going to survive this. >> it's very questionable, i think, at this point. jeff sessions was obviously skating on rather thin ice even before this latest revelation. i think the key point about this actually extends beyond sessions himself. he now is at least the third person very close to donald trump who has had to correct the record more than once about contact between himself and the people connected with russia. that's also happened with jared kushner. it's also happened, obviously, with donald trump jr. so, this gets to the point that

there's -- that the trump administration or people close to the president can't quite get their stories straight pertaining to connections or communications with russia and that's obviously a problem. >> right. kaitlin, today, president trump went on this twitter tired, including this one i want to show everybody. a new intelligence leak from the amazon "washington post," this time against a.g. jeff sessions, these illegal leaks like comey's must stop. and then senator chuck grassley from iowa also tweeted on this. sessions, russia, "washington post" story. he said if the leaker thinks there's a problem, leak the full text immediately so it can be investigated. help stop speculation. some people are asking if the white house could be the source of the story in order to justify getting rid of a.g. sessions. do you think there's any validity to that. >> it's anonymous sourced. it's hard to say where the leak is but it seems unlikely. it's hard to say, but it just seems, given all the kind of the back and forth with sessions

over the past week, it just doesn't kind of fit in the line of what it seems trump would do. but on the other hand, keep in mind that being that this is an anonymous source, that gives the white house all kinds of grounds here to undermine the credibility of it. you know, we're hearing about these conversations from intercepts of russian conversation. i think we can expect to see a lot of white house pushback saying of course the russians are going to exaggerate this and lie and sessions didn't do this. i think there's a lot of ground here for the white house to make up. >> nile, i want to go back to what you were saying a moment ago. if the president were to get rid of sessions for allegedly not being transparent with his meetings of the russians, how could he justify transparency of members of his own family about meetings with the russians. >> the question assumes president trump cares about consistency in those kind of matters. >> fair enough. >> which is part of that. i mean, clearly jeff sessions is not flavor of the month at the white house right now. i think that's one of the

reasons why there is the question that you alluded to about, could this leak have come from the white house. there was significant reporting suggesting that people were surprised that sessions didn't resign after the president criticized him in this "new york times" interview. so, there's a whole lot going on here. it's something of a hall of murderers as it tends to be when these intelligence leaks come out. but it's certainly i don't think there would be many tears shed at the white house if this undermined attorney general sessions even further. >> and kaitlin, if i could allow us to be distracted briefly by the shiny object that was thrown at us yesterday, sean spicer resigned after a tumultuous tenure. he said this last night on fox news. let's watch. >> president obviously wanted to add to the team more than anything. i just think it was in the best interest of our communications department, of our press organization, to not have too many cooks in the kitchen. >> too many cooks. so, somebody else headed out the

door soon? >> you know, it's hard to say. look at the past six months. we've seen name after name emerge in media reports. there's speculation for six months about sean spicer and whether he'd be fired or not. and at the end of the day, spicer resigned. he was not fired and so you know at this point, it's hard to predict. there's a lot of turmoil and a lot of warring factions here and it's clear that scaramucci is, i mean, he's reporting directly to the president. he's reporting directly to trump and trump is pleased with him but does that mean that other people will be fire sd? no but it means we could see power shifting. >> appreciate both of you being here on this saturday. good to see you. >> thank you. all in the family. the supreme court rules in favor of grandparents, aunts and uncles, but the trump travel ban still stands. coming up next, the impact of that ban and thousand white house -- how the white house is making it work despite the latest court ruling. stick around. mom,

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president trump won a partial victory at the supreme court this week. the court said that the white house can continue to keep in place a strict ban on refugees, overturning a lower court, which ordered the government to admit refugees who are formally working with the u.s. resettlement agencies. however, the justices let stand a lower court ruling weakening the president's travel ban. that ruling expanded the list of close relatives who can help visitors from six mostly majority muslim countries get to the united states. that list now includes grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews and countries as well. joining me now are president and executive director of muslim advocates, a civil rights legal organization. you coauthored an op-ed in the "new york times" about how the court is not going to wait for the courts to sort out the travel ban. it said, "how trump is

stealthily carrying out his muslim ban" and you say, "the state department has already moved to implement the president's extreme vetting directive by imposing new onerous visa application requirements. they force applicants to submit years worth of person data, including from social media accounts." this is very interesting. why is the white house, in your estimation, taking this approach? >> i think they're taking this approach, jacob, because the president has made it loud and clear since the end of 2015 what his ultimate goal is. his goal is a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states, and he's said this repeatedly on the campaign trail and then through his tweets and other public comments this year. and while i think the publics and the court's attention rightfully so this year has been focused on two provisions from his executive order, out of public view, the administration has been quietly implementing other provisions of the executive order that cause us great concern, and that basically we think the laying

the groundwork for a more permanent muslim ban. what do i mean by that, where's the evidence for that. just in the last several weeks alone, there have been a number of incidents where people who are not from the six identified countries are denied entry to the united states. so, a professor at the american university in beirut, lebanon, denied entry at los angeles airport. a group of girls from afghanistan who were coming to compete in a robotic challenge were initially denied visas and then only granted them after a lot of public outcry and just this week, i learned of a french national of moroccan background who's a security researcher who was denied a visa to attend a conference here in the united states. and it's not just these anecdotal stories, but even the state department's own data shows that in the month of april alone, travel from nearly 50 muslim majority countries was down about 20% compared to last year's average. and this is a question of not

just going contrary to our values, you know, who we are as america americans is we don't treat each other differently based on how we look or how we pray, but it's also harmful to innovation, to breakthroughs in science and technology and most importantly, to our economy. travel to the u.s., since the start of the trump administration, has been down by foreign travelers. >> that's actually fascinating to hear. i want to ask you more about this expansion of family ties, because it was obviously a clear victory for opponents of the travel ban. including the website banned grandmas who i talked to a couple weeks ago. but what is the other part of the ruling mean for the 24,000 refugees who are already working to gain zbroentry with resettle agencies and had legitimate reasons to be here in the united states at one point in the eyes of the u.s. government. >> so, right now, there's effectively, for all practical purposes, a halt on refugees entering the country until the court's ruling -- will rule on

the merits so there's a hearing scheduled for october 10 in the supreme court, and some time after that, there will be a ruling from the supreme court, but it really does send a dangerous message about refugees as well as the entry of muslim visitors and immigrants from other countries, and that's why we're not just talking about it but we're fighting it every step of the way. and so we're not only planning to file a brief with the supreme court but just this week, we filed a public records request with the state department seeking more information about these screening procedures and what they're doing and how it's been carried out in our name. >> it certainly started as a messy rollout, it's continued to be a very big mess. we're going to continue to follow this closely and i hope to talk to you about this again very soon. great to see you today. >> thanks for having me. a dream come true for college graduates, student loans wiped out. that is unbelievable. coming up next, the $5 billion mistake that could eliminate debt for thousands of people. stay right here.

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i would bet a nickel that some of you out there have got some student loan debt watching this program right now. imagine waking up one morning and finding out your student loan debt has been wiped clean. that dream could soon be reality for tens of thousands of former college students. their private student loans might be forgiven all because of, get this, a paperwork error. at least $5 billion worth of private student loans are right now in dispute. creditors have bought more than -- brought, irn should say more than 800 lawsuits but the it is up to these lenders to prove ownership of the defaulted loans and borrowers are essentially now off the hook. joining me now is the "new york times" consumer finance reporter stacy kelly. this is a crazy story. >> it was a wild one when we started digging into it. >> how did it happen. >> we started digging into this because we saw this securitizations, these process

where loans get sold to investors is really complicate and h ed and goes awry sometimes. this lawyer we were speaking with in l.a. said, have you looked at this nest of lawsuits in delaware related to this lost paperwork and we were like, wow, this is really something. >> and what do you hear from the studen students, the people that could benefit from this. >> the students students who end thup this situation, what ends to happen is you default, you get sued, years later by this entity you've never heard of, people tend to be overwhelmed when this happens. and it was a complicated thing for borrowers' lawyers to figure out so what started to happen was the borrowers' lawyers started digging into this and over the course of a few years saw they couldn't find this paperwork, it wasn't working and judges started to catch on. >> we're not talking about some students here and there. i want to make sure i get these numbers right. the student loan debt in america is $1.13 trillion which is more than credit card debt currently in the united states of america. >> yes. >> and that's 44.2 million student borrowers.

this has to have an overall effect on the greater economy. >> well, the thing about student loan debt is that unlike mortgages, this is a smaller portion of the economy than mortgages were so this is not the same systemic threat that the mortgage crisis was. also, one thing to note about these loans in particular, most student loans are federal student loans that are held or backed by the government. there's $1.4 trillion in student government debt and $1.3 trillion is government. those are not that batch. these were made to the riskiest or vulnerable students though. >> i talked to students that said they wanted to hear from the candidates that their student loan debt would be forgiven. ultimately, donald trump obviously is sitting at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. how does the trump administration approach this issue of the massive balloon in student loan debt or do they. >> well, there's a major change coming down the pike on that. right now, student -- the federal student loan debt is serviced by a number of deferent servicers. those contracts come up in 2019 and there's an open bid right

now for the company that's going to take that over. so there are three leading bidders for it. the current student loan administration under betsy devos plans to award that to one single company so come 2019, the idea is that everyone who's got a federal student loan will be dealing with one company. that's going to be a significant change for a number of borrowers. >> so this is something we have to follow very, very closely. thank you so much for being here. appreciate it. and i am sticking around for another hour, hope you guys will too. coming up, the drama inside the white house a new communications director is named and sarah huckabee sanders is the new voice of the white house now that sean spicer has stepped aside. what led to his resignation and how. we'll be right back. award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century.

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