home. we tell people exactly what you can and can't do. >> simon, we'll have to leave it there. thank you so much. appreciate it. that wraps up this hour for us here at mississippi nbc. i'm ri67d lui. stay with us. you can catch me on social media here. joy read is next. "the new york times," re raised questions about robert mueller. does he endorse his legal team's efforts to undermine robert mueller's credibility? >> again, the president has absolutely nothing to do with any of the allegations that are being made. i think he's maintained that, and he wants them to complete their process as quickly as possible so that we can move on from the ridiculousness of all things russia and russia fever. >> this week donald trump told "the new york times" that special counsel robert mueller's investigation would cross a, quote, red line if it broad ens

to include trump's finances. but mueller has a broad mandate to investigate and according to nbc's own reporting, he's working to follow the money wherever it leads. trump's red line comment has led to speculation that he may be fearing up to fire mueller. but even with mueller gone, that wouldn't be the end of the investigations into whether trump colluded with russia. there's still multiple congressionalel investigation and there's plenty of money and debt for there to follow. like a $17 million debt paul manafort owed to prorussian interests before joining the trump campaign as chairman last ma. or the debt jared kushner and his family took on to buy the building at 666 fifth avenue in 2007. well, next week kushner, man forlt and donald trump jr. might have to explain all of that and more to the senate, but not to the publicly. kushner is scheduled to be interviewed by the senate intelligence committee in a closed door session on monday. then he'd go back to capitol hill on tuesday to speak with the house intelligence

committee, also in private. meanwhile, the senate judiciary committee has worked out a deal with trump junior and manafort to hold a session also closed to the public next week. the committee also asked them to turn overall documents related to that aelt person that we know of june 2016 meeting that included russian nationals with connections to kremlin and a former kgb known as the fsb. all of this comes as another member of trump's now former inner circle is under fire. last night the "washington post" broke the news that u.s. spy agencies intercepted alleged conversations that russian ambassador sergey kislyak says he had with officials in moscow about two separate interactions between him and jeff sessions in 2016. kislyak said sessions spoke with him about trump campaign policy -- campaign and policy matters. drip, drim, drip. and joining me now is malcome nans author of the plot to hack

merng. "washington post" opinion writer jennifer roux bin. david corner, washington bureau chief of mother joenls. thank you all for being here. jennifer, i'm going to start with you on this first. the white house has been told to preserve all documents about the trump junior meeting, so that takes care of him. you had jared kushner come out with yet another financial disclosure in which he suddenly remembered another something like 77 meetings in his financial filing about all of the money that they've made, he and ivanka. this is now inevitably circling in on the trump family and inner circle. so what do you make of donald trump's threat to mueller not to go near his finances in light of all that? >> i think it's a trial balloon to see if the republicans balk, if he thinks he can actually get away with firing mueller. whatever trump is afraid of must be really, really bad because he is now talking about not only firing mueller, but of course marched ong himself, which many of us think is not permissible. i think he fierce that the

finances are going to lead someplace that's going to either be embarrassing or lead to crimes. and so he's desperate. and frankly, the republicans haven't been all that strong. if they know what's best for them, i would suggest that mr. mcconnell and mr. ryan come out flatly say that if he fires mueller, they'll begin impeachment hearings. if he tries to pardon himself, they'll begin impeachment hearings. that's the only thing that's going to deter him from moving ahead, otherwise i think he's going to go right ahead and fire mueller at some point and then try to pardon himself. >> it doesn't bode well that the republicans will send a warning to donald trump. this is on cnn, long time supporter and he was saying that mueller actually should stay away from trump's finances. let's take a listen. >> i would hope that mueller doesn't cross the line into tax returns. and he should let go of some of the business things. let's face it.

the president is not subject to the normal ethics issues when it comes to business. >> if that is the line, you've been doing a lot of reporting on the hill about republicans just wanting to stay away, is there any chance that the jennifer roux bin suggestion that they say to trump don't do it or else would ever happen? >> well, i think the place to look is not at the chris kol linsz of congress because those people are hard core trump supporters. where you want to look is the people who are kind of on the margins, the republicans who have spoken out a little bit, maybe tepdly, but a little bit about russian interference at the election, maybe criticized trump's handling of the comey situation. people who are kind of on the fence. and those are kind of -- that's where the movement is going to occur. what i will say is that my conversations with republicans on the hill over the past couple of weeks have not suggested there are any grand plans for serious movement against trump. the one possibility, you know, if you're looking for movement

is if mueller is fired or if it looks really likely that mueller is fired, you might see congressional republicans just acting out of self-interest and, you know, urging him not to do it simply because they don't want the political pressure to shift back on to congress to be investigating this. for the most part they've been kind of deflecting by saying well, we're going to find out where the mueller investigation leads. if that ends, then they have a world of hurt coming to them, and i think a lot of congressional republicans are going to need to speak up now to prevent that situation from happening. >> stay with me just for a second. are you sure that that is where they stand? because the question i have ask, a, would they have that same reaction if sessions were to be fired, if donald trump were is to force jeff sessions out. and b, don't their interests align with the white house? if the russian investigation went away, that would also help congressional republicans who would like to clear this off the books so that they could do big tax cuts and gut medicaid?

>> there's no question the republicans love for this to all go away. for the most part what they're concerned about is getting some bills passed and winning reelection. that said, i think it's an open question whether this would actually go away. i think if trump fired mueller or the deputy ag and then mueller, however that would end up working out p it would cause a massive political firestorm h. i'm not convinced that the washington press, the national media, democrats would let them off the hook that easily. and i think that there's a concern among congressional republicans i talk to that this would end up just consuming months, and months and months of kind of coverage and that they would still make it impossible for them to advance their agenda. >> i'm assuming you would be among those who would not stop covering it. but did you do have trump, his aides according to the new york times looking for leverage against mueller. you have this vote of no confidence from donald trump to jeff sessions. if he were to start to instigate

these firings, push sessions out, put a lackey in his place, somebody willing to fire mueller, i wonder if republicans would just go along with that because, again, if they could put in an ag who suddenly declared, we've investigated, we've found no wrongdoing, case closed, how would the washington media disentangle themselves from a new attorney general saying there's nothing there? >> listen, we had an e-mail that came out two weeks ago about that june 2016 meeting with donald trump jr., can jared kushner, paul manafort, top, most senior, most intimate advisers and it said they've colluded, they colluded with a putin regime representative, the prosecuted general of russia who is a putin kroney to get dirt on hillary clinton. they claim nothing came of the meeting but it wasn't because they didn't try. and how many republicans have reacted to that? this was out right evidence of collusion with a foreign power.

some people consider an adversary and i didn't see mitch mcconnell or paul ryan bat an eye over this. that tells you, i think, all you need to know. they've tied themselves to the mast of the ss trump and they will stay aboard until the water is over their mouth. and maybe even then. i don't see them coming out even with these trial balloons that donald trump is sending up about his ability to fire mueller or his ability to pardon himself and his family. up don't see the republican leadership saying don't do that. so they are just running, they're ducking, they're covering and that's because not only do they fear him, they fear the fact that 80%, 90% of republican voters, despite republicans like jennifer roux bin and others, are still with trump. and that's what they fear too. so i don't see any, you know, calvary coming to the rescue in terms of good governance and democratic principles from

republican leaders. and they will determine whether there are impeachment proceedings or anything else. >> i have to agree. i don't see it either. but i wonder now if you switch over to the intelligence community side because you have seen a fair amount of leak hg that one could say is the permanent government fighting back against what they see as an abnormal president who has by the way called his own intelligence community akin to naz i didn't see. if trump were to bio engineer that there would continue to be information coming to the press from the permanent government? >> i don't know. let's go to the richard things on memorial like braer and see how that worked pour out for him. this is not going to work. it's not permanent government, all right. it's the machinery that p makes the united states government work, that facilitates everything that happens from the presidency on down to your streets. a part of that is the fact that they have documents. >> yes. >> and this investigation is not -- you know, i say this once

again. the trump administration clearly does not understand that this is a giant wood chip per bearing down on them and that there is no way out. if this investigation goes, it's goes deeply into finances. 13 of the top financial fraud investigators in the justice department are already at work and they already know it. not to mention the spy hunters. put all of this together, there's just no way out of this freight train. that being said, you can fire them all tomorrow morning and all of that documentation is going to exist. it's going to fall off in front of the new york times on a pallet and then the next thing you know, the investigation will shift to a senate select intelligence committee with subpoena power and the impeachment proceedings will accelerate from the ten months that they probably are now to six months or faster. >> and not to mention, jennifer roux bin that governments always change. they always change hands and

eventually democrats may get back in the house and everything changes. this is the people who are connected, just that we know of to sergey kislyak. this is the "washington post" sort of little things. all the additional people we may find out t. you've got kushner, carter page, you've got paul manafort, donald trump and all these ties. and now you have this new information that michael flynn is in need of money, that michael flynn has started yet another consulting firm. he doesn't have the money to sort of pay for his legal defense. he's still out there. and we don't talk about him much any more, but there are all these places where -- all these people being willing to go to jail for him, right. >> it's sort of amazing. and remember, none of these people ever remember meeting with the russian ambassador. he's a very mem rabl figure, very large loud man, the level of do you police it here of lying about these contacts is

one thing. and i think you've hit the nail on head. first of all, of all the people that donald trump has thrown overboard and ridiculed and disdand and dispensed with, why is he so defensive of michael flynn? he's not a family member. he wasn't someone there at the very, very, very beginning. so what is it about michael flynn that has donald trump so concerned about his fate, so concerned about his reputation? i think that is one big link, one big weak link in the defense around the presidency. and you're right. i don't even think trump's relatives are going to go to jail for him. is jared kushner really going to go to jail for his father-in-law? dwrongs. >> we'll see zbloochlt r. >> we'll see. we have a prosecutor here, so let me ask him that. you tell me because you're a prosecutor. is that the risk, that you have people who have a lot to lose who may not have the money that donald trump has, and he doesn't seem to be offering legal

defense funds for anyone, who nen wind up cooperating with the mueller investigation out of their own need? and is that what the prosecutors are looking for right now. >> yeah. so michael flynn will be one star witness. miami thinking paul manafort might be another star witness. he's got all this shady real estate transactions with trump. we can be sure that special counsel mueller has all of the bank records from trump, manafort, from everyone who is involved. so he probably is looking to flip manafort. manafort was at this weird meeting with the russian operative with donald junior. he knows exactly what happened there. he doesn't have the same kind of loyalty that trump junior might have. so it's going to be really interesting to see what happens at this meeting on wednesday. don junior testifies for the first time on under oath. he's got to tell the truth. going to be asked very specific questions about russia. it seems really difficult for folks involved in the trump administration to tell the truth, the whole truth about

russia. so really interesting hearing on wednesday. >> and, paul, could they be prosecuted if they were found to have lied in those hearings? >> absolutely. false statements, perjury and it's not enough to say that, oh, i forgot because again they have some of the world's leading investigators and best prosecutors who are going to be on their case parsing every word they say. that's why if it it were a regular situation no way would they go in there. their defense foerns would make them take the fifth. >> interesting. and that may be why they're not going in public because they may take the fifth. because it's going to be behind closed doors. coming up, mitch mcconnell's kwiks on theic quest to kill health care. that's next. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. award winning design.

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the revised version of the healthcare bill would still leave 22 million uninsured. do you still think the senate should move forward, at least with repealing? >> i do. i think that's kind of a bogus number. what they're basically saying is people will choose not to buy something that they don't want to buy if they don't have to buy it. the government is forcing people to buy something they don't want, and so if we stop forcing people to do something they don't want to do, they won't do is it. >> no, no. it's still not true, speaker paul ryan. the kroeb has found that under the senate gop plan millions of people would lose health insurance, not just because of a lack of an individual mandate, but because of drastic cuts to medicaid and to premium subsidies that would make health care too suspensionsive for people to buy. and to my viewers, don't get luld into thinking that this fight is over, because despite seemel daily reports of its zmiez, the republican efforts to repeal and maybe replace obamacare just keeps coming back because the health care fight

has become the world's scariest real life zombie movie. thank you all for being here. i'm going to go around first and come to you first, tara. do you think this thing is eventually going to pass? >> i think that there's a strong possibility that it may eventually pass. mitch mcconnell is one of the most kraichb politicians out there. he is also a brilliant tactician. he does not get a lot of credit for it. people make fun of him. they say he's slow, looks like a turtle, all those things. they all belie his political skills. >> yeah. >> he is a pressure politics pligs. that's why he's continued to win election even when being deemed part of the establishment. he swatted off attacks from the tea party. that's all because of his skill. he should never be under estimated. and what he tlooifs on and benefits from is trump's controversies which allow him to operate in the cover of darkness while people are so focused on what donald trump's latest scandal is. >> yeah. >> and also, what he benefits from is that he doesn't care.

he has made the calculation that he can win re-election and that they can hold a lot of those seats if they still repeal and that repealing it is better than not repealing it. >> yeah. and you talk to republicans on the hill a lot. you have john corner inthe texas senator saying pg the health plan ahead of time is a luxury that we don't have. somebody said don't some people want to know what the health plan is beforehand? if republicans are willing to vote on something they don't even know what they're voting on, doesn't it seem sneftable that they're going to vote for whatever it is mitch mcconnell puts on their plate? >> well, it's possible. so far that hasn't proven out. i agree with tara. mitch mcconnell always has a plan and he wins more often than not. and even last week i was cautioning people who were against this healthcare plan not toob too optimistic because as one senior senate republican aid told me a couple days ago, obamacare died a hundred deaths

before it passed and i think a lot of republicans in the senate are looking at this the same way. that said, if you look at the state of play of this legislative situation, it's kind of unclear what republicans are even going to be voting for theks week. it's possible they'll be voting for, again for a replacement bill that a lot of them don't like. it's possible they'll just be voting for a straight up repeal of obamacare. and it might be even something else. we don't know right now. so it's hard to make a strong prediction about what's going to happen. but i do think you can't count mitch mcconnell out at this point. >> he hasn't proved to be that testimony at getting his caucus together, dana so far. but part of the reason for that is they've been very vague about what it is they're doing. they just say obamacare is terrible, it's imploding. they're not specific about the fact that they're really talking about the problems in the individual market. you've got a quarter of the market that's medicaid. medicaid is the big enchicago lad aas it were. and a lot of these states it's

up to a quarter or even more of the people getting health care, kentucky, some of these other states. and yet you have a big state with a lot of population needs where they didn't expand medicaid but needed to. this is the florida -- one of the florida senators, the junior florida from florida marco rubio openly saying that it's time to gut medicaid. take a listen. >> the fundamental difference within the republican conference if you want to narrow if down is between senators who argue why are we doing so much on medicaid. let's only deal with the parts of medicaid that obamacare changed and those like me that argue this is a once this a generation opportunity to reform an important safety net program and put it on a sustainable path for the long-term. >> that is republican he's for let's gut medicaid. i mean, it is sort of extraordinary to me, dana, that you now have some republicans willing to go all the way out there on that third rail and say we need to gut medicaid when so many of their own republican constituents in red states want and need it. >> right.

well, at least he's being honest saying that's what he really wants and that's what he's up to. look, the problem that republicans are having is they've been spending seven years saying we don't like obamacare, but they haven't spent a minute spag what they do want. so now they're in a position of what do we vote on and everybody has got a different idea of that and there's no consensus there. but i do think it's way premature to say that they're not going to get away with it. they're probably not going to resolve much this coming week. but they're going to be at this over and over again. you look at the republican bulgt in the house, they're going to take a whack at medicaid there, likely at medicare. and you're going to see, you know, a thousand different things coming at obamacare to try to undermine it and dismantle it. and they've been very successful at sabotaging the insurance markets already. >> and it's interesting because you have trump voters who are telling "the new york times" they don't even remember why they didn't like obamacare. >> right. >> you have conservative red state voters saying no, i really

need my medicaid. >> right. >> and you have republicans and, you know, to dana's point rubio was quite honest saying this is an ideological choice. this is a once in a lifetime of undoing and inwinding twentieth sent tri sub sid sentence programs for people in need. i wonder in donald trump has any thoughts on this because he doesn't seem to understand what any of these bills are. do the republicans really think that he is just the whisper to red state voters to the point where where even if he took their health care aware he could convince them that that was good for them? >> well, i remember why republican voters didn't like obamacare because it was obamacare because they liked the affordable care act. remember, when they thought it was the affordable care act and they didn't know that was the same as obamacare, the polling changed around the blil, even back then when it was less popular. but -- and that speaks to the larger issue here, right. so because it is trump, trump has cultivated this consult like following on twitter we see the

hashtag consult 45. there's really legitimacy to that hashtag. he's made people feel like if you attack trump, you're attacking them. and that's why you see them being upset about him getting rid of the affordable care act and medicaid, wanting to do that, but at the same time still supporting him. and many of them have said even if he takes it away, the overwhelming majority said even if this goes away, i am still going to vote for him because the environment we're in right now is that there is no way that the majority of republicans are ever going to vote for a democrat. that's the point we've gotten to. and that's what the republican party has created in this country. and they know that. and they also are aware of the infighting, some of the infighting with democrats. that's why i say they are never to be under estimated. the only thing that's standing in the way right now is the enact that democrats have done something they haven't done in recent memory and that's actually fight a sustained fight. >> yeah. yeah. >> and that's what needs to continue. >> what do elected republicans

in washington fear more, the pain inflicted on their own citizens, their own constituents or the donors coming at them for not repealing obamacare? >> well, that's actually i think the way to frame it in as much as they're caught between supporting and voting for the most unpopular piece of legislation in 30 years or facing the wrat of the republican dough nar class who are desperate to get this repealed. what doesn't factor into this is donald trump's threats, i think. because we saw some reporting this past week donald trump is kind of making barely veiled threats although people like nevada senator heller, who is in a tough spot here and up for re-election. the reality is donald trump is extremely unpopular. he's popular with republicans, but for senators who are not in jerry manned erred districts that doesn't matter as much. what they care about is getting reelected and they're looking out for their own political self

interests. and so when they're staring down the possible of the a bar rage of negative adds that does factor into their decision-making. there's no question about it. >> well, we are out of time, ufrl. i would love to go on longer. thank you guys very much. up next, the injustice league. stay with us. managing blood sugar is a series of smart choices. and when you replace one meal... ...or snack a day with glucerna... ...made with carbsteady... ...to help minimize blood sugar spikes...

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donald trump's% entel claims that if it were not for voter fraud he would have won the popular vote. but can that be true if you have an approval rating of 37%? just a thought. more a.m. joy up next. the people who own them, every business is different. but every one of those businesses will need legal help as they age and grow. whether it be help starting your business, vendor contracts or employment agreements. legalzoom's network of attorneys can help you every step of the way so you can focus on what you do.

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811 is available to any business our or homeownerfe. to make sure that you identify where your utilities are if you are gonna do any kind of excavation no matter how small or large before you dig, call 811. keep yourself safe. if you want justice league of voter suppression you couldn't do much better than donald trump's so-called election integrity commission which met for the first time on wednesday. several members of the commission, including its vice chair, kansas secretary chris

covac, ken black well and the heritage foundation's have been among the chief proopponents of the smith of widespread voter fraud and of policies that restrict the right to vote. and now together trump's super team of vote suppress ors is working to national eyes all to substantiate trump's invented ideas about voter fraud and a rigged election. but first they'll have to get past the wall of opposition in the form of seven separate lawsuits, the most recent one coming from the na acp legal defense fund which claims in it'll lawsuit the work of the commission as described by its cochairs are grounded on the false premise that black and latino voters are more likely to perpetuate voter fraud. and joining me now president and ceo of the leadership conference on civil and human rights, president and dreng tore counsel of the ncp legal defense fund. ladies, thanks for being here. and i want to put back up this list of what we're calling the

injustice league, kris kobach, jade christian adams, hans and ken black we will all of whom have a history on this matter. saying something pretty extraordinary to our own katy terr. listen. >> you think that maybe hillary clinton did not win the popular vote? >> we may never know the answer to that question -- >> how do you say we may never know the answer to that question? really? you really believe that? >> what i'm saying is let's suppose that the commission determined that there were a certain number of votes cast by ineligible voters. you still won't know whether those people voted for trump or for clinton or for somebody else. >> the votes for donald trump that led him to win the election in doubt as well? >> absolutely. >> this is a legal case, so presumably there will have to be some data floated in this courtroom. is there any ed whatsoever that we cannot know who one the 2016 election? >> no, there isn't. but that is consistent with what has been this drum beat and

claim that widespread in person voter fraud happens in this country, and it's a claim that has been perpetuate by the vice chair of the commission who you just played, kansas secretary chris covac and also by other members of this commission, jay christian adams. these are all people who have perpetuate the meth of voter fraud without any evidence of inperson widespread voter fraud. and 50e6 of them in turn premised that on the idea that none citizens is voting. that is code for la teen owes who are not citizens are voting. during the campaign then candidate trump and then later even after the election, trump and his spokes persons continued to talk about none citizens voting, ill leels they called them and attributed some of hillary clinton's vote to ill leels. but you also heard candidate trump talking about urban areas. he said specifically in october watch philadelphia, watch chicago, watch st. louis.

he actually instructed his supporters to go watch them, go stand behind them, call law enforcement if necessary. we know what happens in those cities. this was all coded language to indicate that african americans and la teen nose would be engaged in voter fraud. and this commission was created for the express purpose of proving that these wild allegations that the president made were in fact true. so whatever the commission's work is, and now they've announced some of what they are going to do, we believe in our complaint we strongly lay out the case that much like the muslim ban, this was created for the purpose of engaging in voter suppression based on race. >> and, you know, there are two ways to look at this commission. one of them is that they are simply there to agran dies this claim by donald trump for his own eeg oh that he really won the popular volt. the other way to look at it is this is sort of the culmination of long stand sg desires to perjury the voter roles of people of color. you wrote a piece in "the new york times" he had i 20er8 where you said the voter purjz are coming and it comes after a

rather chilling request to all of the state secretaries of state to turn over their voting roles and some very personal information on voters. hooer is donald trump on wednesday talking about the state's resist appears, more than fort of them saying no to that. >> many states does not want to share this information. one has to wonder what they're worried about, and i ask the vice president, i ask the commission what are they worried about? there's something. there always is. >> well, setting aside that this is a president who won't turn over his tax returns, so his transparency is in doubt, what does it say to you that you now have the ppd essentially insin wait thag just the desire to want turn over personal information about their voters is evidence of guilty of voter fraud in those states. >> president trump even before the election was tweeting out this possibility that there were 3 to 5 million people illegally voting. he is creating that narrative. and what is particularly pernicious right now is this commission is not just a culmination of a long agenda by

the part of folks like chris covac and others that are serving on it but we are only beginning to see what it could yield. there's a parallel process that i wrote about in the, no times where the justice department on the very same day issued a letter, and the justice department can actually force states to turn over the data about how states are perjuring voter lists and maintaining voter rolls pur sunt to the national motor voter law. that motor voter law was passed in 1993 with express goal of trying to increase registration opportunities for the very communities of color that had been long disenfranchised or prevented from accessing the polls. the the letter from the doj asks not a single word about how states are complying to ensure access to registration. it's purely focused on what states are doing to maintain voter rolls. you have two par rel process says through the commission and through the justice department that is seeking as it's a real prelude to voter perjuring.

and that's so fascinating -- i call it the voter suppression dream team because that's who these men represent on the commission. i think that right now when you look at the news this week and you see what's happening and what the trump agenda is on voting rights, you see the tlts to doj independence repeatedly, the threats and the on going persistence of attacks on the media, all three of these things are core ingredients to the health of american democracy and all three are quite blatantly under attack right now. >> you talk about a dream team. plaque we will when i was ohio secretary of state chris covac who has had this object sex with nonwhite -- this is what congressman john lewis said in the new yorker about hans and voter suppression in approximate 2012. he's been moving force behind photo ideas. over the years he's been hellbent to make it more difficult, always, always for people to vote. it's like he goes to bed

dreaming about this and gets up in the morning wondering what can i do to he had to neighboring it more difficult for people to vote. it almost seems like the make up of the commission is the best evidence for your lawsuit. >> well, i think you're absolutely right. i think there are three main pieces of evidence, one are the statements made by the president, his spokesperson and -- spokes persons and his sur dpats about what he believes is voter fraud. and why he wanted to create this commission, which came right out of his statements about widespread voter fraud by ill leels. second is the membership of the commission which has been stacked with what van new kirk in the atlantic called a rogue's cal larry of voter suppression. and then third are the actual plans of the commission. she talked about the request from the 50 states. a spokesperson for vice president pence indicated they sbind to compare the data they receive against federal databases from home lanld security and other places. that's kind of like the cross check program that secretary of

state kansas secretary of state chris covac has been running which has been proven to have a disproportionate affect on african americans and latino voters inaccurately but nevertheless disproporlt atel because of the kind of names that are likely to show up in the database. so everything about this commission, 9 formation of it, the membership, the plans for the commission, all of it leads to one conclusion, that this is created to do the work that the piecemeal cases that we have been winning in federal court, by county way ro voter suppression, on photo id, it's ziepd to take all of that piecemeal work and to combine it and put it together into one national platform that voter suppressers can draw to on to continue their efforts through voter purjz, intimidation and other means. >> this is sort of a reconfiguration of what happened during the bush administration when multiple attorneys were fired. this is sort of their dream come

true to do it at a national level. maybe it's because they're not -- they're confident that not everyone will be able to vote them out. our dream team talking about voting rights and 1i68 rights. thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and coming up, fallen stars, two infamous names in the past, o.j. simpson and r. kelly, back in the headlines again. more after the break. this is me indicating to you that we're done. that's great, i'm so relieved i thought this was going to go on forever. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi® double cash card does.

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this week as two of the mostin fam ois names from the past legal scandals reappeared in the news. many were riveted as networks went wall to wall with coverage of a.j. simpson's parole hearing and horrified as a buzzfeed report with detailed that r. kelly was holding women against their will. in what parents of one of the women described as a cult. a representative has denied the allegations an one of the woman said she's not being held against her will but back in 2008 he was acquitted when he went on trial for child pornography. and this eye popping answer given by kelly in a 2008 b.e.t. interview after the acquittal. >> do you like teenage girls? >> when you say teenage, how old are we talking? >> girls who are teenagers.

>> and joining me now, is the afro free msnbc contributorteray and my co-host of nbc new york live as well as my co-host on our podcast. >> i want video from you from ten years ago. >> that is a embargo and you cannot show it. >> in that face, when we showed the picture, obvious face in that interview was priceless. let's talk about it. during that time, this is something that happened in 2008. and you walked away from that thinking r. kelly is a pedophile? what? >> the answer he gave, when he struggled to say, do you like teenage girls and he couldn't just easily say no, what are you talking about? that was a softball. do you like teenage girls. you just got off a child pornography trial. just say, no, what are you talking about. but he couldn't say that. and there was something in the

face and the look that made it seem like, wow, we're talking about teenage girls, where are they? the drool is there. i mean, so yes, from that moment, i and many others, felt like he was tacitly saying no but he can't say yes because the compulsion. >> and he was married to someone who was 15 and he was 27. >> and we talked about our ante are still playing and listening to him and it is infectious music and have we failed teenage girls, since 2008 and still allowed to perform and his new tour is selling better since the story. >> one of the girls that is caught up in the cult, the one whose mother had the news conference, she admitted when

her daughter first met r. kelly, the mother was a huge fan and took her to the concert. and introduced her to r. kelly. and then when he asked for the parents blessing to take this girl under his wing and on tour or wherever he took her, they said okay because they really didn't believe the charges that were brought up against him since he was acquitted. >> from james brown to chris brown, we make these sort of divisions from the music versus the person. roxan gay talks about when the rhythm is that good, you can't divorce it from what your brain is thinking about. but the person is evil or vile or you just get stuck and dancing to music that you know is not affirming to you in your life. >> but race is also a factor here. because for so many african-americans, because of the history of how blacks have been treated in the criminal justice system, they look at charges against someone like r. kelly like him being abused or

mistreated by the system. but that is without them doing their homework and digging deeper. this buzzfeed piece isn't just gossip on the internet. this is a piece. >> and i have to read this from the washington post and the piece is time to shut down r. kelly for good and for decades now the listening public has given that man power, fame and money and he wields his talented to entertain us and destroyed black girls and this is the devastating part and america doesn't give a damn. i want to move on to o.j. simpson. your thoughts on simpson being freed and remember he wasn't charged with the murder charges on this -- >> oh, no, he was jailed because of the murder charges. >> and sentenced to 33 years because of murder charges. >> you don't do nine years on this sort of a charge the first time offender as an older person unless you have this other thing

which is why i thought, they're never going to let him out because they got him for that and the political pressure on the board would be too great. i mean, i'm glad to see that he got out because we should not have a government where you get -- the government cannot convict you so they'll get you for something else. we don't want that sort of a government. even if you don't like o.j., you don't want that sort of a government. >> it is interesting to see if he continues to take these kind of moments and opportunities for granted. you know what i mean? what will he do. because his time in prison even in a medium security prison, it is not an easy thing. but he had favor from guards, other prisoners -- >> cooking for him. >> and a flat screen. it wasn't a tough lime for him to come out remorseful. >> and he did also watch his friend donald trump, he attended the wedding to marla maples and he was in the know. jackie reid andteray. can we show this picture of who he looks like?

really quickly. like billy d. williams. no? well tune into a special o.j. simpson chasing freedom. that is our show for tonight. keep it right here. good night. good-bye. there's nothing more important to me than my vacation. so when i need to book a hotel, i want someone who makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time.

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you partner with a firm that advises governments and the fortune 500, and, can deliver insight person to person, on what matters to you. morgan stanley. >> i have to tell you, we have just had a remarkable communication from the president's top lawyer. his top lawyer had been marc kazowitz, a new york lawyer who has represented the president on previous things like the trump university law case and keeping mr. trump's divorce records secret. one of the many things that happened in today's news is that marc kasowitz was either demoted from his leading role or he's left the legal team all together. it's not entirely clear. but now apparently leading the president's representation on matters related to russia is