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it's day 185 of the trump administration. the power to pardon. president trump declares hes ha it. the big question today, why would he need it? his lawyer with a new response. one of his first acts as white house communications director, erase the past. why anthony scaramucci says it was a critical move for the future. president trump declines an invitation to speak at the naacp convention. you'll hear his spokesperson on that and how the oldest civil rights organization in the u.s. is responding. plus, more sanctions on russia proposed by congress. why it might put president trump in an uncomfortable position and at odds with some high-profile republicans. details right now here on "msnbc live." but we begin with breaking news from texas where at least eight people have been found dead in the back of an 18-wheeler in san antonio. 30 others were taken to area hospitals, many of them in critical condition. police say the temperatures had been in the 90s just before the people were found and the truck did not have a working air

conditioning system. police are calling the case horrific. >> the air conditioning was not working. paramedics and firefighters found that each one of them had heart rates over about 130 beats per minute, which, again, they were very hot to the touch so these people were in that trailer without any signs -- any type of water, so you're looking at a lot of heat stroke, a lot of dehydration. >> police say that all the victims appear to be undocumented immigrants. officials believe there were more people in the back of the truck but they escaped to nearby woods. immigration customs enforcement is taking over the investigation. they'll be searching for them and details are still coming in. we'll bring you a live report at the half hour with more as it becomes available. let's go now to politics. a live picture of the white house, where the new communications chiefs are about to make the rounds on the sunday talk shows after making their white house debut on friday. jay sekulow will also sit down for at least one interview.

expect him to consider his defense of president trump's tweet yesterday in which he appeared to assert his power to pardon himself, among others. jay sekulow told reporters at a conference for conservatives in denver yesterday that trump's private legal team is not researching it because it's not an issue. i don't know where this came from. there's nothing to pardon. what's going on in washington is an attack on the president. he is also referring to a "washington post" report that president trump's legal team was looking into his ability to pardon himself and those in his circle. this amid allegations of his campaign ties to russia. meanwhile gop senators are getting renewed pressure to pass their health care bill, this time it's coming from vice president mike pence. here's what he said at a fund-raiser hosted by the ohio republican party last night. >> the opposition has been universal. some people around the country harbor the belief the democrats will help us clean up the mess they made, but as i said and the president said this morning, republican senators must step up

to the plate after seven years and vote to repeal and replace obamacare. >> well, let's go to nbc's kelly o'donnell at her post at the white house for more on that push on the senate's health bill. it sounds like the white house thinks they still have a shot at getting a health bill through this week. what is their strategy right now? >> reporter: well, they don't want to give up hope. timing is another question because we still have arizona senator john mccain who is recovering from his surgery and is dealing with issues with a newly diagnosed brain cancer and how he will go forward with treatment. so they need every vote. so the timing will in some ways really depend on his availability. but politically the push is still very strong. and when you see the vice president going to ohio, a state where governor john kasich has been outspoken against anything that would drop millions of ohioans from the medicaid that they expanded under the obamacare law, a lot of friction there toward the white house on

this issue. then you have senator rob portman who has been trying to find a way to yes. he's tried to secure additional money in the most recent bill for opioid addiction. and so as a guest of the ohio republican party, wiee had the vice president there trying to keep that pressure on to commit to a promise that republicans across the country made to overhaul the obamacare law, change it, replace it, and timing may still be a question, but the political will from the trump administration still seems strong. here's the vice president in columbus. >> this week the senate will vote to begin the debate to repeal and replace obamacare once and for all. the president and i are calling on every member of the senate to support that measure. i mean they'll either return to the legislation carefully crafted in the house and senate of which i speak or they'll vote to repeal now and replace later. but either way, republicans know inaction is not an option. america needs to be delivered

from obamacare and congress needs to act to repeal and replace obamacare and they need to do it now. >> reporter: so what we're seeing from the president and the vice president is pressure on republicans to not simply let it fall and move on to something else. they believe that whatever happens with the health care law, there have been changes to the number of insurers who were participating. as president trump likes to say, obamacare is dead. that's something he's been tweeting out. so there needs to be some kind of action, whether they can attract democrats seems like a big long shot to bolster the existing law. republicans don't think there's much chance of that, and so it's either this repeal and replace now, repeal and replace later, or the possibility they can't get any of that done. it's really an uncertain path for the trump administration and republicans in the senate. alex. >> all right, kelly o'donnell, thank you for that wrap-up from the white house. we'll check in with you again. let's bring in aisha and paul.

i want to first talk about anthony scaramucci's tweets yesterday. the one saying that he was deleting his old tweets because he didn't want them to become a distraction. about an hour later then there's this one, the politics of gotcha are over. i have a thick skin and we're moving on to @potus agenda serving the american people. so what happened to the air kiss that he blew to you and others on friday. are these tweets some loyalty tee oath to the president? >> i think it's a sign that he wants to move away -- he said a lot of things that are not in line with what the president -- with the president's stances, so on climate change, on gun control, and of course people -- as soon as you become a public figure, people are going to go through your tweets. so he said he was being tra

transparent by getting rid of the tweets. some would say by deleting them that's not actually transparency because you're kind of walking away from things that are kind of uncomfortable and not really explaining how your positions on this have evolved. but yeah, i think that he's showing that, yeah, he's going to be tough and he's going to be maybe a bit more, if possible, in your face than sean spicer. but that's what the president likes. he wants someone who's going to be kind of on attack and that's going to go at the media, so that's one of the things that he really liked about scaramucci. >> and he's basically saying that was then, this is now and that's it. so, paul, what is scaramucci's first order of business in reshaping the message that comes out of the white house? do you think he's expected to bring in his own people or what do you think the strategy is? >> well, you know what would be helpful to us is if scaramucci would, as the communications director for the entire administration, make sure there are people in position at the various federal agencies who can answer questions.

part of the problem that's been happening at this white house is we can't get answers anywhere. so everybody goes to the briefing or goes to the white house to ask a question about what's going on at epa or dhs because we're not able to have sort of the normal series of communications through the federal agencies about what's been going on in this administration. i think the other thing scaramucci has to do is sort of figure out how to get the president to warn his staff before he starts launching new topics. that is going to be the big problem is can you control the top of the mouthpiece, as it were. can you control the president's conversation so that the rest of the communications team knows what they're supposed to be communicating. >> you know what, paul, to your point about the different agencies not really speaking for themselves as much, do you think that is calculated? >> i don't know. i don't know whether it is that they just haven't gotten up to staff and don't have policies in place for how they're going to do this or they don't know because they don't have the leadership from the white house of what they're supposed to say

at any given time. it is at the moment a very centralized message and it's all coming from the president's twitter handle. >> let's talk about jay sekulow's comments from yesterday downplaying the reports of the president asking his lawyers to look into his pardoning power. let's take a listen to what kellyanne conway said just a few minutes ago in an interview. >> was the white house prepping pardons for everyone in the west wing? >> the answer is no and i discussed this with the president directly. that's another part of the hoax. his point is exactly what he says at the end of that tweet, which is that why are we talking about -- there's nothing to pardon. there's no one to pardon. why are we talking about presidential pardons if there's no presidential crime. >> he said it's part of a hoax. so why is president trump bringing up the issue of pardoning in that tweet? >> i think that's the issue. they're saying it's a hoax, why are people talking about pardons. well, the president was talking about pardons. in that tweet he says everyone agrees i have complete power to pardon, but we don't need to

think about that right now. but it's not -- he wasn't very clearly saying, look, i'm not considering pardons, i wouldn't consider pardoning myself. he didn't say that at all. he brings up the issue of pardons. no one forced him to do that. so the reason why we're talking about it and the thing that his tweets kind of put into perspective is it does seem like it's on his mind for him to tweet and say that everyone knows that i have complete power to pardon and so it's unclear what he means by that and does he mean he could pardon himself. >> yeah. and paul, as we recall in the span of two hours or so the president tweeted 11 times. is that part of anthony scaramucci's letting trump be trump philosophy? >> i guess so. i mean i think it's going to be scaramucci's headache. there is no way to stop us from talking about all these other

things rather than talking about what they want to be talking about, moving a health care bill next week. they'd love to have us talking about the fact that they were commissioning a ship the other day. it was a very exciting moment for mr. trump on an aircraft carrier. that's the stuff they'd like to be talking about. instead we have to spend all this time talking about the distractions that the president himself is injecting into the conversation. >> well, let's take a look now at the russia sanctions deal. i'll go to you first, paul, on which the house will be voting on tuesday. the reporters at "the new york times" say mr. trump could soon face a decision he had hoped to avoid, that being veto that bill or sign legislation imposing sanctions that his administration has opposed. >> right. >> so which do you think outweighs the other from a political standpoint? >> i'd be stunned to see him veto anything at this point because the way this legislation is crafted is my understanding is it basically says that the president cannot roll back these sanctions without some sort of consultation from the congress. in order to veto this, he would

have to say i want unilateral authority to say that the russians don't need to be punished, which would be at this point very difficult for him to do. also i'm just not sure he wants this kind of confrontation with his congress. but we'll see what happens. it's a surprise that the republicans in congress have agreed to basically send something to the president that he does not want that is a bit of a rebuke of him. i mean this bill essentially says careful, mr. president, don't mess with russia. >> so ayesha, what do you think we should expect out of judiciajared kushner meeting with the house on tuesday? do you think it's going to be any different from the senate intel staff this past week? >> no, i don't get that sense at all. i mean i think that jared kushner, clearly he's being prepped by his counsel. i think he's going to be very careful about what he says. i think that these committees are going to be very careful to

try not to have leaks and things. i mean of these conversations. so i don't know because they're behind closed doors that we're going to get much out of that meeting, but of course any time when you're speaking to a congressional committee and going on the record at least with them, that does open the door to down the road if there are any contradictions that could open kushner up to some problems. but i don't think that necessarily anything will come out this week. >> all right, guys, thanks so much. distinguish good to see you both. well, president trump opts not to speak at the naacp convention again. a former head of that group will be here to talk about how this isn't helping trump's relationship with minorities. and we'll also get his stance on body camera footage that addingly shows a baltimore police officer planting evidence during a bust. i was a doer. i was active. then the chronic, widespread pain

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my understanding is that the invitation has been declined for this year but certainly the invitation for dialogue with that group would happily take place and we would certainly like to be able to continue to do that. >> well, the annual naacp convention is under way, but the president won't be speaking at the event after turning down the invitation for the second time in a row. here's how that decision was announced during a no camera press briefing on wednesday. actually you just heard that from sarah huckabee sanders. let's get back to last year where he declined the invitation. joining me now ben jealous, a democratic candidate in maryland's 2018 gubernatorial race. i just found out you got some good poll numbers so all good

for you. before i get to your reaction, ben, i do want to read part of a statement from leon russell, the board chairman of the naacp in reaction to the decision. he was saying, quote, we get the message loud and clear. the president's decision today underscores the harsh fact, we have lost. we've lost the will of the current administration to listen to issues facing the black community. do you share that view? >> this was a real opportunity for donald trump to come to this city just 40 miles from the white house and actually speak to the country about his desire to unify the country if he in fact feels that way. we've seen republicans do this before even recently, come here and apologize for the southern strategy or come here like jack kemp and talk about the need for all of us to move forward together. you would hope that's what president trump would want to do right now, especially given how low his approval ratings are. but he apparently just keeps

wanting to add insult on top of insult to our communities. it's very unfortunate. it's not what the country needs right now. >> what is the president's relationship like with both the naacp and the black community as a whole? >> folks right now, it's generally most of us obviously not all of us feel one way or the other, but most of us are very concerned about his entire administration. you have betsy devos, the most anti-public education secretary of education we've ever had. you have jeff sessions, who seems to be out of some old film who wants to take us way back to the failed war on drugs and act like it's a new thing. and you have a president who has shown again and again that he really has very little respect for people of color in this country, for minorities of all types. and so, again, this is an

opportunity. presidents typically come to the naacp convention going back half a century or more. and this is a chance for any president to come forward and say he is absolutely committed to civil rights. that if he's made something -- that if he has done something wrong, he will make it right. but he's chosen not to do that and that sends not just the wrong message to black people in this country, it sends the wrong message to the country as a whole. >> so sarah huckabee sanders saying okay, we're happy to have dialogue with the naacp and the community in general. from your perspective, what would the white house need to do to improve relationships overall? >> one of the most telling things about our community is that we don't care how you got to the right decision, we just care that you get to the right decision. we're willing to forgive a lot. we've had strom thurmond come to the convention or robert byrd and actually confess that they

made mistakes in the past, but they got to a better place in some way on some issue. the expectations are pretty low, but you do need to show up and you do need to come with your best intentions and you do need to come with a vision for at least moving forward on one issue. and the fact that donald trump six months into his presidency isn't prepared to do that, even when once again the convention is right where he is. you know, last time it was in the same state, it was just like an hour away. this man with his jet could have gotten there in ten minutes. and this time it's in the closest city to washington, d.c. that's not washington, d.c. the naacp keeps making it as easy as possible for him to show up, and yet he's not willing to show up. reagan showed up and both bushes ultimately showed up. he should be showing up too. >> let's get to talking about the president's voter fraud panel. of course more formerly known as the president's advisory commission on election integrity. i know you've called it nothing

more than an attempt at nationwide voter suppression. it is a notion that the president appeared to reject in his remarks at the commission's kickoff meeting on wednesday. let's take a listen to that. >> any form of illegal or fraudulent voting, whether by noncitizens or the deceased and any form of voter suppression or intimidation must be stopped. >> does that ease your concerns at all? >> no. look, this is the same guy who said that he would replace obamacare with something better and went on to call trumpcare something better that will take health care away from 24 million people. i really don't believe that the president really understands what's going on here. i do believe that steve bannon does because what they put together is literally the all stars of voter suppression. there's really only two possibilities for this commission. either they're on a fool's errand, as republicans have been on before, trying to prove that something happened that has not happened. literally you have a better chance of finding a prosecutor

who can find somebody who claims to have been abducted by space aliens or that same prosecutor getting struck by lightning in the same place twice than you do finding a prosecutor who can actually find somebody who's guilty of prosecutable voter fraud. it almost never happens and never has happened to any extent that has been statistically significant. so either they're on that fool's errant again, and republicans have done that a few times. george w. bush was the last one to do it. or they're preparing to suppress votes, because all the data that they have asked for is what folks would use to suppress votes. and the people they have stacked this commission with are literally the all stars of voter suppression. and that's where the concern comes from. >> i want to get to another big story out of baltimore, that being the body cam video released allegedly showing a police officer inadvertently recording himself planting drugs and then appearing to, well, discover that evidence and that later led to an arrest. so you're running to be governor of maryland, ben.

what would you do, where would you start when it comes to ending something like this? >> look, this news hits us hard. these are times when we all need to feel safer. all of us who live in baltimore, all of us who work in baltimore, all of us who love baltimore are tired of the killings, are tired of seeing homicides surge and neighbors die. news like this hits you and hits you hard. it came just a day or two before we found out that two officers pled guilty to racketeering. to literally stealing rent money from residents across the city. and then you take a step back, alex, and you realize well at least our accountability measures are starting to work. at least the body cameras are starting to catch the evidence we need them to catch and raise the questions that need to be raised. at least the prosecutors are beginning to get success in getting officers in this case to actually plead guilty to the

corruption that they were engaged in. and both of those actions will in time help to restore trust. and trust is one of the first steps to restoring safety. we need folks to actually feel comfortable coming forward. and so these are tough times in baltimore, but we've started frankly right after the uprisings pushing for greater accountability, pushing for body cameras and seeing prosecutors getting more engaged and actually holding officers accountable. that's beginning to bear fruit. at the same time, we need to move forward as a city. we need to move faster to rebuild our homicide units here, to bring in good officers as we get out the bad officers and make sure that we're getting the killers off the street more quickly. small steps towards rebuilding trust in our city will ultimately help us do just that. >> well, we hope one step in particular, that being the baltimore police commissioner saying that internal affairs is on this and investigating and they'll get to the bottom of it. so we know that is on record. okay, ben jealous, good to see

you and come see us again. >> thanks. the one person not getting flak for controlling "the new york times" interview, but could hope hicks really do anything? i'll speak to one of the reporters next. ♪

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text to reorder blades with gillette on demand... ...and get $3 off your first order welcome back, everyone. i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. at 30 past the hour, we have new reaction this hour from anthony scaramucci, the incoming white house press secretary is making the rounds on the sunday talk shows and giving us a sense of his first week in office and whether he'll be able to keep the president in check. here's what he said just moments ago. >> that's the president. the president likes speaking from the heart, he likes telling you what he likes and he dislikes. it's okay with me if the president doesn't like certain things that i'm doing. we're all on the same team. i would prefer the direct and immediate feedback as opposed to anything else. tomorrow i'm going to have a meeting with the communications staff and say, hey, i don't like these leaks so we're going to stop the leaks. if we don't stop the leaks, i'm

going to stop you, it's just really that simple. >> he's the white house communications chief. let's bring in peter baker, chief white house correspondent at "the new york times," also an msnbc political analyst and the author of the new book "obama, the call of history." peter, always a big welcome to you, so glad to have you here. i was looking at your reporting from yesterday in which you said that the president has intentionally pulled from the clinton playbook to respond to the mueller investigation. can you explain his thinking in terms of the specific strategies he's using and why does he think it's going to work for him? >> we heard it last week in our interview with him, he started questioning the credibility of the investigator, robert mueller, investigating the collusion with team trump. he had meade a conflict of interest, the people around him had conflicts of interest and that is the strategy that the clinton team used with ken starr, not the first

investigator that went after him but the second one, ken starr who they portray eed as partisa. they undercut his credibility as much as they could and something president trump seemingly wants to do here with robert mueller. the difference is that ken starr was seen at a time as a conservative who had been in administration as a political actor before and robert mueller is a career prosecutor with 12 years as director of the fbi, the longest serving fbi director other than j. edgar hoover. the idea of undercutting the credibility of the investigator is one way of trying to take away from the allegations that are swirling around his own team. >> do you think he has any sense of the irony of all of this? he's modeling behavior after somebody he's blasted as crooked for more than a year? >> just yesterday he was tweeting about her and saying crooked hillary clinton should be investigated by the justice department and yet some of these

tactics or strategy seems to be taken from their playbook. i think whether he understands the irony, certainly some of the people around him do. you know, obviously they're not fans of the clintons but they also recognize the clintons are tough, hard ball political players and they're looking at what worked and didn't work in the 1990s, which is the last time we had sort of this big high-profile, you know, threatening kind of investigation that consumes a white house. >> do you think that it's lost on those outside the white house, the difference that these two investigators bring in terms of their background? ken starr versus robert mueller? >> they are different. look, there's a big divide even inside trump's own team. the spokesman for his private lawyer, his personal lawyers resigned last week. one of the things that he had n objected to was this idea of trying to tarnish robert mueller's reputation. he worked with robert mueller in the bush justice department when robert mueller was the fbi

director. he believes strongly that robert mueller is a person of integrity and professionalism and they ought not to be trying to undercut his credibility. other people on the legal team have advised the president the same thing. they say, look, this is a person who is seen as a straight arrow. it's to your advantage that he is the special counsel. if he doesn't find anything, he's going to have more credibility in making that conclusion than some prosecutor that you would have picked. so there's a real divide inside trump's own team about this. >> peter, you were one of three reporters in the headline-making interview with "the times" this week and there's one moment in particular that generated a lot of heat. i'm going to replay it for you quickly now. here it is. >> sessions gets the job. right after he gets the job, he recuses himself. >> was that a mistake? >> well, sessions should have never recused himself, and if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me before he took the job and i would have picked somebody else. >> i'm curious, peter, your

reaction to that. did it surprise you especially after you had, as i understand it, a lot of back and forth with the president about what was on and what was off the record? >> well, it surprised me only in that he said it out loud. we knew that he was feeling aggrieved about attorney general sessions' decision to recuse himself from the russia investigation, but that was several months ago and it seems to still be sticking in his craw, enough so that he chose to say this. yes, he knew he was on the record and intended to be on the record. he's very aware of what he's saying. i think people who sort of suppose that perhaps he says things willy-nilly, no question he is an impulsive person and says what comes to his mind, but he's also very aware of what crosses a line as far as he's concerned. so when he does go on and off the record, he obviously does make a distinction between something he wants to be out there and something he doesn't want to be out there. he wanted this to be out there. other presidents have been upset at their attorney generals. no other president that i can remember said these kinds of things out loud about their attorney general, certainly in

the era since nixon. >> so the only other person in the room besides your colleagues and the president was hope hicks, the white house director of strategic communications. she has since taken a lot of criticism for not controlling him better. did she try, at least from what you saw? could she have or should she have? i guess the could she have, you talked about how impetuous he can be. i guess could is the wrong question to ask. but should she have? >> well, so far i don't think you can say that any advisor has controlled donald trump. i think that any aide sitting there during the interview, you know, he's going to say what he wants to say. that's his style. that's how he feels he got to the white house in the first place. he doesn't like the idea of being handled. he doesn't want aides to sit there and baby-sit him and tell him what to say and what not to say. he chose not to have aides in there while we met. other presidents generally come in with a whole series of people, the chief of staff, the press secretary, communications director, a white house stenographer to record the whole

thing. that's not his style. he chose not to. he chose who was in the room. i don't think that the idea hope hicks was going to be able to do something that other aides haven't been able to do so far makes a lot of sense. >> did she just stand there, peter? did she reach out and ask him to back off? you see that all the time. >> aides always sort of try to guide their principal and say maybe this can be off the record or maybe we should -- but the truth is, she understands that he's his own person and he's going to say what he wants to say. anthony scaramucci, the new communications director you just showed, he said that the trick is to let trump be trump in effect, so that seems like the new strategy will be even more of the same, not less. >> it means we'll have a lot to talk about, peter baker, as always. thank you so much. >> thank you. well, the latest from the heart of texas with some sobering new information on how eight people have died and dozens of others were found near death, all crammed into a truck. we'll have more on what happened in a live report, next.

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we have this breaking news to share. at least eight people have been found dead in the back of an 18-wheeler in san antonio. 30 others were taken to area hospitals, many in critical condition. police say the temperatures had been in the 90s just before those people were found and the truck did not have a working air conditioning system. telemundo's veronica ville dpchlt gas is on the scene for us. >> reporter: you can see the 18-wheeler parked behind me at this walmart on the southwest side of san antonio. so far what we know is eight people are confirmed dead, two of those are teens. 17 are in critical condition, 13 are in serious condition. the police chief told us that a walmart employee was the one who discovered the human smuggling attempt. police have not confirmed where the trailer was coming from or how long it had been parked

there. we heard from s.a. fire chief hood who had crews out here treating this massive triage scene. >> the air conditioning was not working. paramedics and firefighters found that each one of them had heart rates over about 130 beats per minute, which, again, they were very hot to the touch. so these people were in that trailer without any signs of any type of water, so you're looking at a lot of heat stroke, a lot of dehydration. >> reporter: what they were able to see after looking at surveillance cameras is that several were seen running from the 18-wheeler truck going into the woods. the driver was arrested and is facing state and federal charges. >> all right, veronica, that's a horrible story. thank you for bringing it to us from san antonio. letting trump be trump. is that really the right strategy for the white house? we've got some answers next. and next hour, joy reid with

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we have escalating violence in jerusalem. dozens have been arrested after another day of protests. clashes erupted from muslim worshippers and israeli forces after new measures were imposed at one of the city's most sacred mosques. matt bradley is joining me with the very latest from there. matt, what can you tell us? >> reporter: thanks, alex. these sort of escalating tit-for-tat attacks have struck with horrifying regularity in jerusalem over the past couple of years. it's never really clear from the outset just how much worse these sorts of flare-ups can become once they have started. while this latest round of dead low violence shows no sign of ending soon, the israelis may relax tensions on temple mount. authorities today just installed video cameras at the entrance to this holy site. now, those cameras could become

an alternative to the metal detectors they have been using to scan muslim worshippers for weapons. israeli authorities have told nbc news that they may be replacing those metal detectors with the cameras today. so, remember, it was the arrival of those metal detectors last week that sparked these days of violent protests in jerusalem. those have left at least four palestinians dead. and on friday, three israeli settlers were stabbed to death by a palestinian man who invaded their home in a west bank settlement so it doesn't like this is all going to be wrapped up very soon. back to you. >> very quickly, matt, i know that you reported that mahmoud abbas had cut off all top level communications with israel. has that been restored yet? >> reporter: no, he still seems to have severed all ties with the israeli. again, it's going to take a lot of diplomacy for the israelis to coax him back into the fold. back to you. >> matt bradley from london, thanks so much. well, the new and remarkable comments from the president's new communications director on what he said about russian hacking. you need to hear this and i'm going to bring it to you in three minutes. shoulders don't just carry pads.

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let's go more politics, we bring in crystal ball, executive director of the people's house project and author of "releasing the apocalypse" and former bush -- can we start over. we know who you are. it's all good. anyway, thanks for being here. i want you both to listen to communications director anthony scaramucci. here it is just moments ago. >> somebody said to me yesterday -- i won't tell you who -- that if the russians hack this situation and spilled out those e-mails, you would have never seen it, you would have never had any evidence of them, meaning they're super confident in their deception skills in hacking. how about it was the president? >> i talked to him yesterday, he called me from air force one and he basically said to me, hey, this is -- maybe they did it, maybe they didn't do it. i'm going to maintain for you -- >> hold on a second. this is the issue here. president trump is contradicting it and you're siding with

president trump. >> well, i didn't say that i was siding with president trump. he hasn't made the decision yet to sign that bill one way or the other. >> this is remarkable here.eahe russians are so good if that they had hacked, we'd know it, we could trace it back to them for sure and we know what their tactics are. what do you make of this, krystal? >> well, it seems like scaramucci is going to leave his scruples at the door and parrot what the president says. the president says because of the hacking -- it couldn't have been the russians because they're so sophisticated. i don't understand why they're obsessed with not acknowledging everyone else has acknowledged -- this the russians were behind this

hacking. it just adds the sense of weirdness. if you're innocent, if you didn't do anything here, why not admit what the facts and what rur intelligence agencies showed. they seem to be much more interested in parroting the kremlin line than trusting our own intelligence agencies. >> what do you make of all this, robert? it doesn't make a lot of sense if you try to add it up. >> he is so smooth. anthony scaramucci is very good. he's definitely a spokesperson for the president. i really think they believe this stuff. it's sunday morning but maybe we should open up the popcorn and look at this fiction movie. the reality is this, as krystal mentioned a few moments ago, every single intelligence official said the russians did this. the also reality is the president refuses to be american and stand by what his american intelligence people are saying and siding with the russians. it's very obvious here the

president is afraid of vladimir putin or the information that vladimir putin has. it's very obvious that vladimir putin is driving this train and that he is deciding where this is going and it's also very obvious the president and his new spokesperson is drinking that cool lakool-aid. it's very obvious. >> so robert mueller if the president wanted to dismiss him, could he get away with firing him legally speaking krystal? >> i was thinking a lot about this this morning, i would love to say that republicans are going to find their courage and if he did fire mueller would be a bridge too far but i don't see a lot of evidence for it. they seem to be comfortable with normalizing all of the incredible abuses of executive power we've already seen so i think they'll find a way even though they're on the record of saying how great bob mueller is, i think they'll find a way to

justify that. it's frightening. >> robert, what would republicans do were robert mueller to be taken off the case. >> i don't believe that. there are senate republicans that are on record as saying -- including lindsey graham, including the chairman of the intelligence committee of the republicans that are saying mr. president, that is a bridge too far. i do believe that would be a saturday night massacre 2.0. i do believe -- let me clarify. the president legally does have the right to do that but politically i don't think eck do that. i think a lot of congressional republicans would stand up and yell from their own bully pulpit and say enough is enough, this is not normal, we cannot sustain this, this is not constitutional. >> what about the latest tweet storm, crystal, from the president which he declared all agree the u.s. president has the complete power to pardon. if you're talking about pardons it doesn't necessarily mean a crime was committed or does it? does it indicate something right there we're talking about a

crime and we need to pardon? >> just another week in american politics where legal scholars and the president himself are jumping into a debate about how far presidential pardon powers go and whether or not the president himself can be indi indicted. it's a statement of how incredible a moment this is. the president does himself no favors by making this admission and kellyanne conway trying to walk it back saying "who's talking about pardons? no one is talking about pardons." well, the president is and he gets himself in trouble with his twitter. >> alex, why would you talk about pardoning yourself or your family if you're innocent? why have that as part of your thought process. if i'm sit dwoung my attorney, why would i rush to the attorney and say how can i figure out a plea bargain if i'm innocent. >> i guess we'll leave that as a rhetorical question because that's the end of my hour. that's a wrap for me, i'm alex

witt, thanks for watching. later today i'll have republican congressman buddy carter on about what will happen if the president tries to fire robert mueller. will the gop stick with the president? but first a.m. joy coming your way next. ink? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. text "blades" to gillette on demand so you can genoousiness done. text to reorder blades... ...and get $3 off your first order with gillette on demand.

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the value of capital is to create, not just wealth, but things that matter. morgan stanley >> the president's not going to have to pardon anybody because the russian thing is a nonsensical thing. i was there early on in the campaign. i didn't have any interactivity with russians. i didn't see anybody have any interactivity with russians. it's a complete bogus and nonsensical thing and this is the stuff that happens in washington that i don't like. it's scandals incorporated. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." anthony scaramucci, the new head of the white house communications shop and perhaps the trumpiest hire in trump world yet is making the sunday news show rounds. part of scaramucci's to do list is pushing back on the news that