smack down. both men are holding their positions and president trump is re-upping his attacks on the attorney general. why didn't ag sessions replace mccabe a comey friend who was in charge of clinton investigation, but got big dollars, $700,000 for his wife's political run from hillary clinton and her representative. drain the swamp end tweet. sessions has no plans to resign and according to reporting in politico has told allies he did not understand the public angst and thought he was doing to his department what trump wanted him to do and recusing himself was a no-brainer. sessions is enjoying public support from conservative media and from many in the senate. >> i worked with jeff sessions for 9 1/2 years in the senate. he's one of the most honest people you would ever know. >> jeff has been very loyal to the president and i think he deserves loyalty back. >> i hope the attorney general

doesn't resign, i hope he's not fired. if you look at so much of what the president of the united states wants to accomplish on his agenda, sessions is central to that. >> the weakness is that the president is trying to not use his power. he's trying to get sessions to quit and i hope sessions doesn't quit and if the president wants to fire him, fire him. >> do you think the president is demonstrating weakness by his handling of sessions? >> absolutely. >> let's get to our reporters covering all of this today. nbc news's kelly o'donnell at the white house. kimberly atkins from the "boston herald." vivian salama. kelly o, let me start with you. the men that we just played you've covered a lot of them. you have covered sessions, you have covered a couple of presidents. set up this standoff between sessions' former colleagues,

republican senators, some of the most conservative ones in the u.s. senate, and the president he now serves. >> well, jeff sessions had a reputation in the senate of being someone who was amiable to deal with and very, very conservative. so jeff sessions was someone to count on. so he gives up his seat to serve at the pleasure of president. he was the first senator to support donald trump during the campaign season and that had been repaid with this very uncomfortable, protracted sort of shaming of jeff sessions done by the president through his twitter feed and interviews. frustration over his recusal in overseeing the russia investigation, although certainly as my understanding that sessions was relying on the department of justice guidelines in his recusal. that he was in some political hot water at a level he hadn't seen in a long time when he had testimony before the confirmation hearing for his own seat and had that problem where

he didn't fully disclose his meetings with russian officials. so he thought he was doing what the department of justice would require of him and that recusal has set off this simmering and now maybe full boil anger from president trump towards jeff sessions. well, that has brought out support that you might not have expected from fellow senators who knew sessions as someone they would work with. and sessions has been a politically charged figure over time. but for those colleagues who worked with him, they see this as an unfair treatment. one of the things we saw playing out today is more and more questions about the president's choice of handling a very high profile personnel matter in this way. not firing sessions but miking him certainly -- making him certainly uncomfortable day to day. sessions was here for a small principals group meeting, so cabinet officials who come and meet and talk about issues in their area. but the president was not a part of that we're told. and of course, at the briefing now back on television with press secretary sarah huckabee

sanders now fully in that role. she was asked about this todayed about why the president seems to keep needling and poking at sessions when he could simply fire him. >> if he's so frustrated and so disappointed in him, why doesn't he just ask him to resign or fire him? why does he continue to tweet about him instead? >> look, you can be disappointed in someone but still want them to continue to do their job. that's where they are. >> -- doing their job? >> i think i made clear last week there comes a point he doesn't he'll make that decision. >> one of the challenges if he were to remove sessions from office or if sessions were to resign, if you have a very big vacancy and there's a line of succession at the department of justice and how quickly would any replacement be confirmed if at all? would they need a recess appointment which means when senate's out of town putting that person in the job. the political ramifications of those who were also part of the campaign, that would be challenging to get through given

the russia connection to the campaign and that investigation. so it's a bit of a mess for the president and one he keeps seeming to expand by the way he treats sessions publicly. and an attorney general as you know can operate almost in his or her own orbit. doesn't need to interact with the white house on a day to day basis. certainly a good relationship with the president helps. >> kelly o, stay with us. we'll go up to capitol hill though for some breaking news. garrett haake has some news. seven republicans voting against the repeal only bill. what's the latest? >> nicolle, the republicans needed at least 50 votes to get this repeal only vote passed and they're going to fall well short of that. we had thought coming into this vote we knew three moderates had come out and said this is definitely something they'd not vote for and others were under pressure not to change their votes from 2015, the last time this bill was up. everybody on the republican

senate side except susan collins voted for it, knowing that the president would veto it. so they're under pressure not to change their votes and now we have six republicans who have changed their votes on this. so a cascade of no votes including john mccain, interestingly a no on this. and lamar alexander one of the folks closest to leadership, closest to working with mitch mcconnell to put together this entire repeal and replace effort. we're not done counting here. >> thank you. stay with us. vivian, you have been covering the slow motion train wreck that's the republican effort to actually pass a health care repeal and replace bill. talk about these sort of twin political crises that the white house is staring down right now between the sessions standoff and now the losing vote once again on health care. >> it's been a lot more than that. the morale at the white house is not at the peak. you have seen a couple of people let go this week. a new -- you know, the press secretary resigned and a lot of

changes afloat because frankly they're just trying to get back on track. the health care debacle that we have seen now playing out for months at a time, it's really strained this administration that essentially promised during the campaign its voters that repeal and replace would be their primary target from day one. they would get that going and now we have seen month after month, roadblock after road block and not from democrats, and the presidents keeps on saying they're obstructionists, but from the republicans that's a major set back and something very frustrating and frustrating for president trump who once upon time was a chief executive of a major corporation and, you know, the buck essentially stops with him. he had the final say in the matters and now he's learning he has to answer to the judiciary. he has to answer to the legislative branch so that has been a major process for him in terms of learning what it is to be the president. and so it's been a frustrating process. he's not been able to kind of

get the narrative in a positive direction yesterday he was in ohio. i was there in the crowd where he was trying to assert to them that he's delivering for them. he's bringing back jobs, you know, he's going to repeal and replace an get health care that people voted for. but we're not seeing that essentially. so that's something that they're really going to have to figure out in the next couple of weeks if they want to maintain the is support of their core voters. >> mark leibovitz, i think the sessions fight being on the other side of -- i hate to call it a red line, but sort of the other side of the danger zone for donald trump doesn't get enough attention by people who don't understand the holy grail that rush limbaugh and some of those conservative media outlets play in republican politics and even donald trump has to sort of abide by the laws of gravity in conservative media land. this has been the first fight -- they had a few skirmishes over immigration.

i think ann coulter spoke out against him, but this is the first big fight over a big personality. rush limbaugh and people like him, influential radio hosts see jeff sessions as the one guy on team trump who's actually delivering on all of the campaign promises and it's a controversial agenda. but for the people that voted for trump they see sessions as the one who's delivering on immigration, on the other law and order issues. i mean, the president's entire convention speech was really about the basket of issues over which sessions could -- you know, could wield full control. >> absolutely. i think, you know, it's also -- more than just being seen. it's true. i mean, as far as domestic policy goes, there's not a cabinet secretary more -- you know, in a position to enact its own policies and the attorney general -- than the attorney general and sessions has been an activist in that regard. seemingly very in sync with what donald trump has talked about and also what the base wants. and it's not just a media issue.

this isn't just conservative media. this is conservatives period. these are the conservatives in the senate and in the house. this is a lot of donald trump's base. and i guess on many levels its makes no sense whatsoever. the other thing is, why the timing of this? i mean, he recused himself months ago. i guess what it does underscore is that for donald trump in this relatively young presidency, although it feels like it's been going on for ten years now, this is about two things. i mean, one, it's about donald trump. it's about his own sense of whether he thinks he served well, whether someone is being loyal to him and part two, it's russia. it's russia russia russia. at least as far as what the president thinks about and where he's devoting a lot of his mental energy to. >> mark, let me add one more element to what you're talking about. mo brooks who is running to replace jeff sessions in the senate seat he'll clear the way for jeff sessions to get his

seat back, offering to withdraw if the others will concur, then we clear the way for the republican party of alabama to be the republican nominee for the december general election. he's so beloved that the guy's running to be in his seat will all bow out and let him have his seat back. it feels like donald trump has picked the wrong fight. >> well, also, again, it doesn't make sense. it's unclear what it gains you or who it gains you with, maybe it makes you feel better you can be seen pulling the wings off a fly in the most public way. it being a sign of weakness was interesting, because in one way, it's true. i mean, you can fire someone. it's the president's prerogative to fire someone. you know the other part of that, i mean, the president -- if the

president were to have heard a clip like that, that would have made the president fire jeff sessions which would be a major crisis if you asked any republican senator right now. one, they don't have the time to do all the things they want to do and getting through another attorney general that would suit the various constituents would be a disaster. >> kelly o, i want to bring you back in on the vote that's just happening because i feel like these might be the next targets for donald trump's tweets. senator capito, senator heller and senator mccain and senator alexander and portman, they were no votes. do you think the president continues with his cyber attacks against republicans that don't bend to his will? >> well, dean heller of nevada who was seated to the right of the president directly when he had senators here for a lunch and sort of jabbed him publicly saying he wants to keep his senate seat, so he'll vote for it. dean heller has been a target perhaps the most vulnerable republican up for re-election in

a state that votes very blue. so heller is certainly someone who could draw the ire of the white house. portman of ohio is someone who obviously is also listening to the governor of that state, john kasich. shelley moore capito one of the republicans who is also dealing with the issue of medicaid expansion. john mccain the argument he makes about arizona is that medicaid expansion is something that you can't roll back. without careful planning and also protecting those who are most vulnerable. it's not as simple as just simply scrapping what was the obamacare law. in this way, it is not unexpected to see these particular republicans voting in the way they did today. watch the twitter space because -- >> we're monitoring it live here. let me bring kimberly atkins into the same conversation. lisa murkowski was another no vote. she was a target of the president's twitter ire this morning. can you weigh in on the twin set

backs for the white house, the public rebuke basically for the attacks on jeff sessions, someone liked an respected by conservatives and the media and sort of in the conservative movement. and this losing vote, another big failure on health care. >> yeah. i mean, senator murkowski made it pretty clear that she was more interested in governing than worrying about twitter comments from the president. she is in a place where she's not up for re-election this year. some other senators are. but i think on their side the people who vote against it is the fact that this bill is so unpopular with americans. and they are standing up for their own constituents and their own district where they think it's more important to pay attention to the president on this. i think in that sense, jeff sessions also is in a somewhat secure place. initially when the first "new york times" article came out that the president lashed out at him i thought maybe his days were numbered but because he has

so much support from within the gop, not just the gop, but supporters, voters who voted for president trump. the fact that he is as you said carrying out the agenda of that -- that the president campaigned on when it comes to immigration and law and order. i don't think he'll probably step down. i think he'll keep on doing what he's doing, which is letting other people, his supporters defend him for him and keep doing the job at the department of justice and i think the president is going to keep twitter attacking him because the president can. >> kimberly, weigh in on the point that senator graham made and the point that mark underscored about how weak it looks. simply -- i mean, it's not like -- he's the leader of the free world. he's the chief executive of the country. he could simply call him and say, hey, jeff, it didn't work out. i appreciate everything you have done for me. but let's part ways now before this gets uglier. but the president is the one

making it ugly. he's publicly shaming him, cyber bullying him. it's so diminishing for the office of the presidency. how long -- is this sustainable, this sort of state of play between the two men? >> yeah, it does diminish the office for sure. >> go ahead, kimberly. >> it does diminish the office for sure. that's what the president is relying on. i think in his eyes he sees himself as governing in a new way. using twitter as a direct line to anyone he wants to send a message to. and he's going to continue to do that. he's not listening to people from within his own white house who are telling him at least specifically when it comes to jeff sessions, hey, why don't you lay off of him. he is upset, he is angry and he's an executive who is used to telling people what to do and expressing his displeasure. i think he knows that firing jeff sessions would be politically perilous for him right now. he doesn't have anyone necessarily who he trusts and who he thinks will be loyal enough to replace him so i think

the next best thing is for him to take to twitter and torture him a little bit. >> all right. thank you. mark is staying with us. again, the breaking news the senate has rejected the repeal only health care amendment. seven republicans voting no. when we come back the mooch effect. if the first cabinet meeting, where they went around the room and praised the president, that was a few weeks back you'll love what they did in the briefing room today. a new power structure. are scaramucci and former campaign manager corey lewandowski spear heading the let trump be trump strategy and is it work? you can't believe how presidential the president can act. we'll show you when we come back. ray's always been different. last year, he said he was going to dig a hole to china. at&t is working with farmers to improve irrigation techniques. remote moisture sensors use a reliable network

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how is this better? >> we're going to win so much, chris, you're going to get tired of winning. >> but we're not going to start with health care. did that sound familiar? the mind meld of the two complete after five days on the job and the mooch effect may explain what happened today where sarah huckabee sanders began her briefing with a personal statement. >> to the best of my knowledge, i'm the first mom to hold the job of the white house press secretary. that says less about me than it does about this president. empowering working moms is the heart of the president's agenda, particularly when it comes to things like tax reform. as a working mom it's not lost on me what a great honor and what a privilege it is to stand here at the podium and i thank

the president for the opportunity. i hope to send my daughter a message and to every other kid in america, don't listen to the critics. dream big and fulfill your potential because in this country you still can. >> let's bring in our panel, joining us msnbc contributor and "washington post" columnist jonathan capehart, twitter star, bill kristol. michael allen, former staff director of the house intel committee and carol lee, we're so happy you're here. >> thank you. >> and mark leibovich is still here. so crystal, i have to start with you. nothing against sarah huckabee sanders, but these pronouncements of loyalty fr from -- you know, the white house podium is symbolic the world over. to use that as place to praise your boss is "a," weird, and "b," seems to illuminate what may have been missing in trump's evaluation of sessions. inadequate loyalty. >> yeah, i guess.

i mean, the north korean aspect of the trump white house is distasteful. >> your leader. >> yeah, it's creepy. and damages the country in certain ways. i mean -- >> that's all. it just damages the country. >> constitutional republic. you work for the -- you are loyal to your boss. obviously in the normal sense but you work for the country, not for the guy in charge. you don't prostraate before himr her. and he wants to fire bob mueller. if you want to fire him, you have to get the deputy attorney general to do it. but i think sessions would resign if trump went around him to fire mueller. sessions has defended mueller and sessions pledged at his own conofficialmation hearings -- confirmation hearings he wou would -- i don't like the shaming sessions. cat fight between the two men. that's not fair to sessions who

is entirely the victim of this. but anyway, he wants to fire mueller. >> what's the standoff? >> the attack on sessions is a test by trump. i think he's a crazy in his own way, but he's cunning like a fox in some degree. clever like a fox. he wanted to test the waters of how far he can go. if he can get support among his base for firing jeff sessions then i think pushing him out, if sessions resigns then he tells rosenstein to fire mueller and rosenstein says no. he fires rosenstein and mueller -- >> and i think rachel -- she would stand up for the rule of law. >> i'm not saying -- >> it's -- if donald trump -- >> i don't think he can pull this off, but i don't think he's entirely being just -- you know, he has a plan in mind. his plan is to get rid of bob mueller because as mark leibovich said he's scare odd of the russia investigation. >> go back to crazy for a second. i mean, you posited -- you stood at the fork of the road. i mean, if he's crazy, is it

possible that his lawyers have told him that mueller is going to look into his businesses. >> right. >> mueller is going to get your tax returns. mueller is going to have access to all of these things that you ran for president and you can't say he paid a political price with his voters but he did pay a bit of a price. i mean, it was a constant story line. do you think that when the scope -- because as many people have said the recusal happened months ago. but the revelation that mueller is now going to follow the money and look at the businesses seems to me what lit the match behind the fire sessions campaign on trump's part. >> yeah. i agree with that. i mean, i think that -- trump one way or the other got much more alarmed about the investigation ten days ago. maybe it's the finance, maybe his lawyers know things about other things they have learned as defense lawyers that we don't know yet. but trump very alarmed about

mueller's investigation. i do think the assault on sessions is part of his vanity and trump being a bully but i think he was trying to test the waters to see how far he could go into getting into the justice department, getting rid of sessions and rosenstein and muler. >> we know rachel brand. if he thinks that things will get better with rachel brand -- >> there will not be a saturday night massacre. >> well, she would then quit. >> she would resign. she would know more going into this. i wonder about the crazy like a fox theory. i think russia is inside trump's head. i have heard scaramucci talk about his golf game, his basketball and -- >> thinks of a football going through a tire. >> winning in politics is message discipline. not letting your opponents get inside your head. it is going out, it's recognizing that you have a vulnerability and saying i'm more upset about this than anyone is.

i'm not going to get to the bottom of this. it doesn't mean that hillary clinton beat me fair and square. >> look, this presumes -- there's nothing there ultimately so why is he behaving irrationally? let's use okam's razor, he's scared. he's desperately trying to push it off. mueller requested to get his tax returns that would be -- >> i think the tax returns are part of it. i think there's ample reporting about who may have bailed him out in the past. >> it's gotten close to his home, don jr. is now deeply ensnared because of the meeting he set up with many russians. >> what's the number up to? eight, seven? >> it was several russians with ties to russian intelligence agencies. so talk about what might be under that -- you know, behind that curtain. the family's vulnerabilities. >> well, i think it gets to what

bill has been talking about. the president went bananas ten days ago because clearly he's afraid of what's -- what bob mueller is going to find. because bob mueller has a whole lot of power here he could bring forth things that he could under normal circumstances keep out of public vie. ie as bill brought up the tax returns. with the tax returns we find out a lot of things. we find out a lot of things we wouldn't necessarily need to know because it would be nice to know where his money comes from, but as commander in chief, okay, fine. he's a millionaire or a billionaire. we get confirmation of that. but what happens if we find out that he is in hock to russian bankers or connected to the russian mob or any number of scenarios. i could say anything right now and two years ago would have been far-fetched but today it could happen because things have gotten so bizarre. >> let me ask you about what donald trump sort of pressure points are.

they're not a constitutional crisis. that doesn't freak him out at all because it looks like he's comfortable taking us to the brink, but it's not the sort of specter of firing the ag. it is people asking questions he doesn't want to answer about his businesses and his family. >> well, not only that, it is -- this is a president who very much likes to be in control. he likes to call the shots. that's where he feels the most comfortable. and his whole life he has been able to do that and now he's in a position he can't do that and somebody else can call the shots on him and he doesn't know where that's going to lead. for him he has been stewing about this for months. i mean, early on when jeff sessions recused himself, we knew at the time that he was irritated by that. and now there's misdirected anger that's happening and being targeted at jeff sessions at this stage because this continues to be something that he sees about in the white house. >> can you weigh in on all of the time spent talking about donald trump's taxes during the

campaign that never happened. what if an investigation that was put into motion by basically donald trump himself is the impetus for the thing he doesn't want us to see getting released? >> right. their catch all answer during the campaign and even after the campaign is that, oh, no one cares. i guess on election day that proved to be largely true. i mean, the other side of this though, the reason he didn't want to disclose the tax returns is because it would have exposed whatever his financial and revenues are to how ever many tax attorneys, you know, investigators are out there who would get a look at this. and now -- i mean, this is why it's important. it's not so much for, you know, the coal miner in ohio to look and pour through the tax returns but for people who actually can see where the business leads, can actually look at it. so i think this is the kind of thing that actually underscores why it's important to have tax returns before an election.

>> mark, thank you. up next, the president announcing where else on twitter that he plans to ban transgender americans from serving in the military. it appeared to catch many in washington off guard. but was that really the case? >> senator cotton, can i get your reaction to president trump's decision to -- transgender people? >> i haven't responded to the tweet. >> do you think transgender people should be banned from the military? >> we should have a hearing about it, not a tweet. underwear toddlers see things a bit differently thanks to pampers easy ups while they see their first underwear you see an easy way to potty train pampers easy ups our first and only training underwear with an all-around stretchy waistband and pampers' superior protection so you'll see fewer leaks and they'll see their first underwear pampers easy ups, the easiest way to underwear. pampers

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the president of the united states woke up and tweeted, changing years of policy after consultation with my generals and military experts, please be advised that the united states government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the u.s. military. our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened

with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. thank you. michael allen, what did you think when you saw that? >> well, look, i have heard working with you in the white house so policy making via a speech, this was a subversion of the interagency process and the generals were supposed to be doing consultations with and policy making by tweet it's like he rolled out of bed this morning and decided, hey, you know what? i'm not happy with the way things have been going lately. i'm going to shake things up and keep people guessing. you can't help but think this is another product of a larger dysfunctional white house. >> there's some reporting that supports your theory. it comes from politico saying that behind the scenes this started an idea or a seed planted on capitol hill. the report says, quote, this is like someone told the white house to light a candle on the

table and the white house set the whole table on fire. said one senior house republican aide -- let me bring hans nichols in for some fact checking. was the pentagon caught off guard by the president's three-tweet policy announcement? >> it depends what you mean by the pentagon. it seemed like a lot of officials here were taken aback by it. whether or not there was a conversation between secretary mattis and president trump over the last 48 hours, i can't really speak to that in part because secretary mattis is on vacation. here's what i can tell you, nicolle. july 14, secretary mattis came by the briefing room. first time through there wasn't any reporters and he came back later. he said he spoke to representative harts her on july the 13th. that's the amendment to this military defense authorization act that was slowing things up. he's opposed at the time, matt advertise was opposed to this amendment just be clear about

what this amendment did. it restricted funding for gender reassignment surgery. it said you cannot spend any money on transgender individuals. as of july 13, mattis was opposed to that. we also know that the chairman of the joint chief of staffs said that there were no reviews taking place. and that it wasn't a problem integrating transgender service personnel into the military. now whether or not something happened in the last few days we don't know. it seemed like there were a lot of raised eyebrows at the pentagon and now the urgent task is how to implement it. because frankly they haven't gotten any guidance and they need to figure this out. >> let me read you how john mccain responded. he tweeted, any american who meets current medical and readine readine readiness standards should be allowed to serve. joe biden said everyone who is able to serve should be able to

serve. >> this is -- >> from democrats and the republicans. >> not just about the military qualifications. the other thing i would say this is -- i don't even know what number of example of this white house rolling out a policy that on its face you could envision the scenario in which there's a process and you build support for it. and then you outline it and you help people understand what you're trying to do. and from the -- for this president's first full day in office with the travel ban, we have seen policies put out there with no explanation. if you're a transgender member of the military serving, you're obviously caught off guard by this. you don't know what this means for you. this is -- >> or your family. i mean, you rely on your job -- >> and it's not even a policy. >> it's not. >> it's not clear. >> it's a tweet. literally just a tweet. >> it's not clear what the legal basis for this would be. what the house republicans are debating is a much narrower question is whether taxpayers

should pay for gender reassignment surgery, fine. that's one debate. i'm not sure what -- >> thousands of people? >> to separate 2,400 people from the military based on what incidentally? based on their own -- how do you know what people's gender preferences are? in fact, a couple hours after the president's tweet the defense department website has up on the website, transgender service members may serve openly and they can no longer be discharged or separated from the military solely for being transgendered individuals. that was the policy four or five years ago. if they want to change that, there's executive branches in the congress -- it was congress that changed don't ask/don't tell. i don't know what the legal basis of trump saying this is. >> to carol's point, the reason we don't have don't ask/don't tell anymore, president obama directed the defense department to discuss the issue and to lead to the point where gay men and lesbians can serve openly in the

military. what the president did today was despicable and reprehensible. i said transgender americans now in the military have already displayed more courage than the current current in chief who never served. not every transgender person undergoes gender reassignment surgery. and the third thing and my colleague at "the washington post" christopher ingram put out the stats. $41.6 million in the pentagon budget for viagra. $22.8 million -- >> wait wait wait. read that one more time. >> $41.6 million for viagra, $22.8 million for seual us. >> how much is viagra? sorry. >> i don't know. i don't need to know. but if you're talking about how much transgender medical care costs in the pentagon budget, $8.4 million, this is not a burden on the military, this is not a burden on anyone's budget.

what it will do by keeping transgender americans who are already serving and those who want to serve out of the military makes us more -- i should say it makes us less safe. >> i don't believe that trump has the ability to discharge the people from the military. >> but the message this sends is dangerous. >> hans, let me give you a quick lap forward on where you think this goes from here? >> i'm glad you did not ask me about viagra because i have nothing appropriate -- >> taking on the viagra question. >> you saved me there. look on the number that bill is talking about the 8.4 million, that comes from a rand study and that rand study here at the pentagon they're saying the number is inflated. so what they're trying to figure out another the pentagon how many people this currently affects. the number we are hearing is in the numbers but that could be on the low side because that's just individuals who have self-identified. the rand study on the upper end says up to 7,000 individuals could be transgender who are currently serving.

so that's part of the challenge here at the pentagon. they're trying to figure out the numbers who this affects and is this just guidance from the president? is this aspirational? >> when we come back, did president trump compare himself to abe lincoln?

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sometimes they say he doesn't act presidential. it's so easy to act presidential. but that's not going to get it done. in fact, i said it's much easier by the way to act presidential than what we're doing here tonight. believe me. with the exception of the late, great abraham lincoln, i can be more presidential than any president that's ever held this office. that i can tell you.

>> bill kristol, first thing i thought is abe lincoln is dead. >> presumably. >> some -- >> yeah. >> but seriously, this idea that anthony scaramucci and corey lewandowski who's been around a lot, i understand that his contact with the president has never really diminished but he's been on the plane this week, this idea that the president wants to reassemble the band there's a spirit of let trump be trump he's not in a situation he has because he hasn't let himself speak freely on twitter and other ways, but he is more off the rails. >> scaramucci was widely received, and he's more fluid than sean spicer. spicer is glad he doesn't have to do the briefing today and defend this craziness. i think scaramucci will be worse for trump because he's more like trump.

he is cocky and he'll say things that are not true. i come back to the transgender thing. i'm so infuriated by it. because there are questions about women in combat, paying for certain operations. those are debated, i would say very seriously and in a dignified way over the last six, seven, eight years. don't ask/don't tell, and grappling with the tensions between the small combat unit an outpost and then the integration of the genders -- >> and we have been at war. >> it shows deeply though he thinks it's a dictatorship. he thinks he wakes up and decides we should expel 2,400 in the military as if there are no ways to discharge people, that people don't have the rights, that the military doesn't have concerns about those who signed up under an expectation or the congress -- it's very small. but it's deeply revealing about trump i think. >> we worked in the white

house -- i had the job of communications director. and the job was about getting your arms around all of the ways that the president communicated. so to me the first mission for anthony scaramucci is either responsible for the tweets that are of questionable sort of -- you know, reprehensible on the substance level and questionable legally. but what do you think about just the early signs that scaramucci's direction is to, you know, if trump has been sort of drinking -- you know, like drinking out of a fire hose to digest his messages they have now flooded the basement. they're going full trump. >> i keep coming back to the statement, a maxim of politics. what scaramucci and say, let trump be trump that's code for we we can't control the guy anyway, so let's call this a strategy and move forward. what's more interesting i think and you see congress being more -- >> is it working?

i mean the health care went down in flames. i doubt for all the reasons that bill raised out, i doubt the transgender law will become law. it's not working. >> here's where some republicans are. they were glad that hillary clinton didn't win. >> why, is this what they wanted? >> no. we'll write the policy, he'll sign it. and what's happening now is the dysfunction of the white house and the inability to hold a message to drive a legislative agenda is actually causing congress to be less fearful of his ability to tweet. i think over time you're going to see a more reassertive congress, especially as his twitter feed becomes a diminishing asset. >> carol, when he wants something done, corey lewandowski is still one of the lieutenants. he picks up the phone and calls. >> yes. and badgers and does -- i mean he's very, very aggressive. that's right. you know, the interesting thing about anthony scaramucci he came in and he was saying that he's going to have a big vision and

give the president credit for his accomplishments. within hours he's engaging in essentially what is the traditional hand to hand combat of, you know, slapping down things, minute by minute. and there's no big picture pict. and so you have a white house that continues to be messaging on defense and has not created any sort of platform for mej messaging on office. they don't show signs of changing. >> take these two speeches as an ensemble, the boy scouts and last night where he went on with some pretty vivid pictures of victims of violent crimes. i mean, he's just back to sort of -- he's obviously aching for his primary self, primary campaign self. >> and that's the point i've been itching to make here. listening to the boy scouts speech, link to the youngstown ohio speech, i felt like i was transported back a year and a half ago. we're back on the campaign trail. to hear scaramucci in the thaw just showed of him saying you're going to be so tired of winning.

that's literally out of donald trump -- candidate donald trump's mouth. the stuff there about i can be more presidential than abraham lincoln. he said those exact words during a campaign speech a year ago. it's almost as if we've gone back to the future. i think i had agree with you. let trump be trul. we can't control this ming, so let's just let it go. >> let's just call it a ploon. >> i do hope you're right that congress will start being more assertive in protecting its perg activities but also in protecting the republic because what we've seen with the transgender thing that he did today and some other teets he's done in the last 48 to 72 hours, i'm kind of fearful of who is sitting in the oval office and what trouble he could possibly get -- >> why? why are you afraid. >> just on this point, one trump advisor was quoted i think to politico say this is clever. it will appeal to our mid warn

base. let the democrats run trying to defend transgender individuals v. chuck grassley and joni ernst, herself a veteran, married to a veteran, the other senator from wai iowa both came out against trump. >> the other thing you can almost see with the president picking this fight with jeff sessions that it's given republicans an excuse to say things that they've been wanting and itching to say for some time because it feels okay and everybody supports that the president has gone too far. >> do you think it's one off ar opening of a flood gate. >> i think we're going to look back at the congress saying, heck no, donald trump, we are not changing the russia sanctions legislation, we are moving forward with tying your hands vis-a-vis the russians. i think this transgender announcement is going to offend the prerogatives of the house and senate armed services

committees, whether they agree with it or not, and i think you're beginning to see a more reassert active congress, and we're beginning to learn now more than ever why our founders wanted checks and balances. >> i agree with you, bill kristol, it took a very long time for republicans to wake up to the reality of what they're dealing with. >> i don't know if they're there yet. i'm starting to see -- >> you got my hopes up. >> tea leaves. >> you got me all hopeful. all right s. up next, this really happened. ned by three be. ned by three be. she ate some porridge, broke the baby bear's chair, and stole some jewelry, a flat-screen tv, and a laptop. luckily the geico insurance agency had helped the bears with homeowners insurance. they were able to replace all their items... ...including a new chair from crate and barrel. call geico and see how easy it is to switch and save on homeowners insurance.

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with some of our technology is i think in everyone's best interest, with the exception of the russians, but that's okay. >> that was just a snip pet of the 22-minute phone call that energy secretary rick perry had last wednesday with someone he presumed to be the ukrainian prime minister. but little did en it was not the leader on the other line or for that matter anyone in the ukrainian government. was actually on the phone with two russian prank sters who duped him into discussing energy policies and even pig man you're. the energy department spokesperson confirmed its authenticity to various members of the media saying these individuals are known for pranking high level officials and sbreb ritz not in line with their governments. in this case the energy security of ukraine. to rick perry's defense the prank sters have reportedly

targeted other well-known names before. and the nato secretary general. but then, it is rick perry s the man who heads the department that oversees our nuclear women's. jonathan, i was waving at you because i feel like if anyone has a list of other politicians who have been pungd before, it might be you. i mean, i think sarah pay lynn got a call from these guys. >> yes. that's a name that came to mienld. sarah pay lynn is the one that jumped to mind immediately. but the thing i wonder is how are these people getting pungd all the time, and especially -- >> by russians. >> shouldn't the energy's secretary people around really screen the calls to make sure that the secretary is talking to like real people? >> yeah. >> bet they will now. >> you hope. in six months we'll be talking about another cabinet secretary who is getting pungd. >> bit bill kristol, does it always have to be russia? why is russia always the punch line? >> yeah, well, ask donald trump, you know. rick perry this happens now and

then. first few months in office you don't have your system set up very well. donald trump doesn't have that excuse. trump's damage is entirely from him. he's not being deceived by anyone. >> and i bet this played pretty big in russia as all of these things do. i think one of the more disturbing and pretty unfunny aspects of everything we've been talking about is no one is laughing at the kremlin. >> we, i think, have had a lot of self-inflicted wounds here in the united states. i think we need to get back to basic principles and i think that we've been able to unite two parties, bhoesel two parties around the ideas that the russians have been a pernicious influence and opposed to our interests all over the world. >> two parties except for the leader of the republican party, the sitting president. >> yeah, but the democrat party has become more unified on russia. we just jammed down a huge russia sanctions bill through the congress. i don't think anybody saw that coming this year before this happened. this has allowed russia to show

its true colors and americans know it. >> thank you to jonathan cape heart, bill kristol, michael allen and carole lee. that does it for this hour. i'm nicole wals and "mtp daily" starts now. >> nicole, how are you? i missed you when you were gone. i hope you missed me when i was gone sbloo of course i did. >> see, i had to just force that out of you even if you didn't. thank you. well done. if it's wednesday, the art of the repeal fails again. >> tonight the health care debate. the repeal only vote fails. can republican leaders come up with anything that can pass the republican senate? plus, defending sessions. >> and i hope sessions doesn't quit, and if the president wants to fire him, fire him. >> republican senators forced to take sides in the trump sessions feud. and why did president trump move to ban transgender people from the armed forces today? >> she's very rude. >> this is "mtp daily" and it