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very well. >> good morning, and welcome to "am joy." coming you to live from los angeles. where we are here for the annual politicon convention. you won't have reince priebus to kick around any more. and that goes for you to mr. president and those calling him names and the chief of staff tendered his resignation on tuesday under duress after a mere 189 days on the job. and like many bad modern relationships sh the breakup was announced on social media with donald trump tweeting about his decision to hire a new chief of staff, current homeland security secretary retired marine general john kelly and only after that did he add this shutout, i would like to thank reince priebus and we accomplished a lot together, i am very proud of him. and we await word on what those accomplishments are. the white house could feel free to contact us right here ott

show. rumors of the demise had been circulating for months now. and his departure comes amid a tough week for the trump administration. with the failure of republicans to repeal obamacare and replace it with tax cuts for the rich. it also comes in the wake of that now infamous profanity laced new yorker interview by anthony scaramucci threatening to hunt down white house leakers and calling out priebus by name. and even calling reince an expletive deleted paranoid schizophrenic who would soon resign. and then it happened. welcome to what the new york post described this week as survivor -- white house edition. and joining me now republican strategist kate dawson and john harwood. >> white house correspondent for reuters and by phone michael steele. michael, i'm going to start with you because reince priebus has been out doing exit interviews and explaining how he thinks it is just a dandy idea he was

booted out of the white house. i want to play i believe -- let's see. let's pick something. let's go with e-3 and this is reince priebus on cnn on friday and he's talking about the white house just wanting to go in a new direction. >> i think the president wanted to go a different direction, i support him in that. and like i said a couple of weeks ago, i said the president has a right to change directions. the president has a right to hit a re-set button. i think it is a good time to hit the re-set button. >> michael steele, there is this thing where people who are not in the business of politics feel that reince priebus is sort of throwing his dignity overboard. in the service of a president who clearly didn't respect him, clearly didn't want him. but could you just explain to folks who may not be living in the world of republican politics, why reince priebus would do that, why would he having ben so humiliated go out

and still praising and lauding the president? >> because he doesn't want to lose an opportunity to have the white house be helpful to him in whatever he does next. maybe in a few short months, gets an ambassador appointment or goes back in the private sector and wants to be able to have access to the white house to some degree, doesn't want to completely alienate or cut off the president who shuts down any and all access he may have in washington, d.c. so he gets out there and he does -- oh, gee, this is the great thing that could ever happen and i'm so supportive and i hope the president does well, and knowing that that is just a bold faced lie. that is like i'm saying, i'm so glad you guys fired me as rnc chairman and picked reince. i'm sorry, that is b.s. it just doesn't work like that. but that is the truth. the nontruth is what reince is saying and he will say that publicly because he's preserving his future opportunities.

>> and kate, there is also this thing inside of the base of the republican party and you and i talk about a lot about the republican party base and why they like donald trump so much. and the idea of sort of donald trump being able to impose his will on other people is part of why people like donald trump and i guess the mistreatment of his own people plays fairly well with them but on the other side, the "wall street journal" had this fascinating story about the anthony scaramucci horror rant against reince priebus and the reaction of the president. one adviser who spoke with the president said mr. trump was dismissive of mr. priebus for not returning fire. what is that about? that donald trump wanted them to get in a cage match and they needed to respect him more. >> i think that is donald trump from real estate style which is different from a political style that you need to be successful. again, the latest leaker in the

white house is tony scaramucci. that is the guy who leaked that reince would be fired, who leaked that they were after bannon, so if he's talking about leakers, he's the guy who spit it all out and threw it all up before the president had a chance to tweet it out. as to reince's situation, reince is not a house hold name and won't be for long. like jeff sessions is a household name in republican party politics. so reince will come and go. mike is right, ambassadorship or access to the white house, it has been a while since he's been in the public sector, twice elected rnc chairman so he needs to go make some money. but when you are fired and you are fired on tv and fired publicly and that is what happened. spicer, rnc washington connections gone, reince gone and now replacing with generals, maybe some civility is coming, i'm not sure but they certainly walk all over the message of whatever they are getting done,

that is making the base happy. the base is tolerant, they like people turning the tables over, joy, they love the disruption but all of a sudden health care is falling and things are looking -- and we haven't had a crisis like barack obama or bush have had to see what we'll get from the white house. and say stay tuned. >> well just to stay with you for just one second, kate, are you suggesting that even die-hard trump supporters at some point are going to get tired of the survivor white house reality show and start thinking, okay, but you guys aren't getting anything accomplished. is that even possible. he has a 83% approval rating from republicans. >> i remember how popular george bush was early on and when they were spending money like drunken sailors, people got lethargic about the white house and they control both parties and the white house and when are we going to knock down the agenda.

and everybody could point fingers and the president say they didn't help me and i read in the "wall street journal" said maybe 51 republicans is enough, we are staring down the barrel of 2018 which is donald trump is going to have -- the referendum won't be on republicans, the referendum is on donald trump. now he could make it another way if he cares to. but the republican public is going to believe what they are going to believe. they are looking for conservative principles and drain the swamp and health care and tax relief. and now regulations and everything he's done, they've walked over the message of what we were euphoric about when donald trump came into office about dismantling some of the things president obama had done but we are too busy tweeting out gossip and rumors. >> and they don't have a michael steele who knew how to run the election on nancy pelosi and at

the rnc, i don't think they have the heavy weight they had before. i want to go quickly as my little free compliment to you, michael steele. and i want to talk about the state of chaos in the white house, it has a lot to do with a couple of things. it is the indiscipline of donald trump himself but his sort of obsessive mania about leaks and the fact that do you have senior white house staffers leaking information about each other. sort of fighting their battles in public and trying to influence him through leaks. i want to get your take, in terms of your reporting, on how much it was leaking and the allegations from scaramucci that preeb yaus was leaking that spelled his dem ice. i want to play you reince priebus responding to this allegation by scaramucci that he was one of the, or if not the chief leaker. take a listen. >> what was your reaction when you saw that interview? >> no reaction. because i'm not going to respond to it. i'm not going to get into the mud on those sort of things. >> are you the leaker in the

white house. >> that is ridiculous, wolf, come on. give me a break. i'm not going to get into his -- >> why not, why not respond. >> because i'm not going to. it doesn't honer the president. i'm going to honor the president every day and honor his agenda and honor our country and i'm not going to get into all of this personal stuff. >> i'm going to set aside the honor the president stuff because that is weird. but how much of this was about donald trump not trusting reince priebus and presuming that scaramucci was right, that he was leaking? >> well, i think that is what they may say but i find it hard to believe that it is really about the leaking. i mean, this presidency or this white house there are leaks coming from everywhere. and i have to believe that the president realizes that. so i don't think that it was necessary, the leaking, but i think that it was, as was said before, think it was the idea of maybe the weakness of the idea that reince wasn't strong

enough, he wasn't standing up for himself, he wasn't able to get health care done. and someone had to take the blame. so i think that probably played a bigger role than this idea of him as a leaker. because clearly the president kind of likes this competition, he likes the back-biting and the sniping that goes on in the press. so i don't think that it was the leaking, but i think it was maybe the idea that reince had become weak. >> and john harwood, i think there is a lot of anecdotal evidence if you listen to buy og raffers that he likes the fighting and the power is in the white house. and this is kellyanne conway talking about general kelly now going to be the chief of staff and then i have a question for you on the other side. >> many of us are very excited about this new infusion of energy and discipline and i could just speak for myself, even if that means that there is more protocol, there is more

pecking order, and that there is less regular access in and out of the oval office. >> okay, that was interesting to me, john harwood. protocol, pecking order and access to the oval office. does that mean that anthony scaramucci, unlike with reince priebus, will be reporting to the chief of staff and not reporting directly to the president or are we headed for a showdown between those two? >> joy, there is no protocol in the white house. there is no pecking order in the white house. when you get right down to it, the core problem in the white house, it is not leaking, it is not who his chief of staff is, it goes to the character of the president of the united states. his honesty, his behavior, that is where all of the problem flows from. and so you could replace reince priebus, you could put in general kelly, you could bring in anthony scaramucci, it all

goes back to president trump. look at what he's done in the last couple of days. he went up to new york yesterday and appealed to fear of migrants, he was encouraging police officers to rough up criminal suspects, this is somebody who doesn't have political beliefs, he has a set of impulses and instincts that mostly revolve around him and his well being and that is why he is not really connected to republican philosophy, republican policies. i talked yesterday to an ally of reince priebus and paul ryan who said the next phase of the trump white house is going to be to disconnect itself from the republican party and go to war with the republican congress. and what do d we wake up to this morning? a president tweeting that republican senators look like fools, democrats are laughing at

them and ordering mitch mcconnell to blow up the filibuster. donald trump is the issue. it is not his staff. >> i heard an amen from you, a little bit there, michael steele. >> he hit it right out of the park. that is exactly the scenario that republicans have invited into their party. and they are going to have to live with it. this white house, this president in particular ideally would like the separation between himself and the party, why? because he's never been connected to it. he's agnostic on 90% of what republicans and particularly conservatives artic lit and he's philosophically anywhere at any given time and the philosophy is donald trump. and this is the reality of the party, you've seen it play out. you think you will get an agenda done on big stuff like infrastructure and tax reform when the president himself has not anchored the principles of where he wants the policies to go. good luck. >> yeah. it is going to be interesting trying to get things done in washington when you don't want

to be connected to either the democrats or the republicans and don't want to do business with either one. good luck with that, donald trump. kay and dawson sticking around, alicia and michael steele, thank you. and coming up on next week's episode of survivor white house edition, will jeff sessions get to keep his job as attorney general. stay tuned. shawn evans: it's 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day. putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette. gillette - the best a man can get. how to win at business. step one. point decisively with your glasses. abracadabra! the stage is yours. step two. choose laquinta. where you'll feel like the king of the road.

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priebus is the second wisconsinite to be shown the door, oh, spicy. and this is just the beginning. trump has taken several opportunities to lambaste his attorney general for recusing himself from the russia investigation. his attacks on the sitting attorney general they may have caused one thing, with respect to the rule of the law, they've united the republican party around a common goal, not health care, but protecting jeff bow re guard sessions appointment. >> if you want to push out the attorney general, forget about. it the presidency isn't a ball and this country isn't a china shop. >> this effort to basically marginalize and humiliate the attorney general is not going over well in the senate. if jeff session is fired, there will be holy hell to pay. >> joining me now is former

ethics chief in the white house richard painter and kurt bardel and consultant katon dawson. and you have republicans now coming together around the idea that donald trump should be nicer and more fair to jeff sessions because he was a supporter. but are they macing the point of what -- the what is problematic about donald trump threatening his job. >> well i think they know the point, they just don't want to articulate it publicly. the point is that the president is upset with jeff sessions for not taking over the russia investigation and terminating the russia investigation. that is what the president wants. at all costs, for the russia investigation to end, his son and son-in-law are now all mixed up in it. but the point is that an attorney general will not engage in obstruction of justice. unless he wants to go to jail. and jeff sessions isn't going to do that.

and that is what this is about. and the white house can continue to attack him, can continue to attack bob mueller as several white house staffers have done, but that isn't going to stop this investigation. a foreign country has perpetrated an act of espionage inside the united states and disrupted our election system and we'll get to the bottom of this it and find out whatever americans helped them do it and they could make whatever noise they want but this investigation will continue. >> and i think that is the case, kurt, that donald trump would love to make the russia investigation go away and he thinks that getting rid of jeff sessions would do it. it wouldn't. and at the same time, is he taking the risk that the attacks on jeff sessions start to annoy jeff sessions super fans who have been there with him before donald trump came along. i want to like at the breitbart article defending sessions and

saying he is a man what who embodies the movement that elected donald trump president on things that are an anthema, on policing and drugs and he is the cup of tea of that breitbart base of donald trump. and yet this is the way donald trump is talking about him. on tuesday, donald trump, same day at the article, trump tweets, attorney general jeff sessions has taken a very weak position on hillary clinton crimes, where are e-mails and dnc service and intel leakers and then next day, this is wednesday. why didn't a.g. sessions replace andrew mccabe, a comey friend in charge of clinton investigation, et cetera, et cetera. at some point does the breitbart world become annoyed with donald trump's attacks on sessions? >> i think that they are already there. they are already annoyed. i hence you saw some of the stories they put up throughout the week as trump continues his assail against jeff session and this is one of the more

consequenceal things that happened this week and for the first final all of the commentators and platforms have bent over backwards trying to defend thein defensible from donald trump and in a position where they had to criticize donald trump. and that is the first time this happened in the presidency and jeff sessions is a revered figure in the conservative movement and there long before donald trump was contemplating public office and one of the people steve bannon tried to recruit for president and that is how much they care about sessions and idolize him and make him that huge fixture in their movement and to have this happen to someone that was there so early on, when jeff sessions endorsed donald trump, bright bort wrote it was the most consequential endorsement at that point. it was a very big deal from stature standpoint that sessions was willing to put his entire career on the line to endorse donald trump and take that risk and then to have the president turn around and so publicly just chastise and demean someone who

was such a supporter and so loyal, sends a chilling message to anybody supportive of donald trump that he could turn on you at any second. it is interesting to see what happens next week. will trump continue the attacks on jeff sessions. there are rumors that he is looking at making sessions the replace of kelly for homeland security. >> okay. and secretary of homeland security. that is interesting. really quickly, to stay with you, kurt, what he fired them, what would they do. >> if he fired jeff sessions there would be open warfare because everybody would see this is clearly designed to make the russia investigation go away, as richard just pointed out and that is really what this is all about at the end of the day. and i don't think that members of congress will look too kindly on what will clearly be obstruction of justice. >> and it would be -- on that -- we're talking about the politics in terms of members of congress, katon, but you do politics and campaigns for a living. one of the ways that you could win an election is to demoralize and divide the other side.

at this point, are we looking at the opportunity for democrats, if they could pull it together, to see a trump base that even if they still like him, are lessen earthized because he is attacking people that they like, people like jeff sessions. >> very true. and the scenario could be that because what we've seen in the special elections is the trump defined motivated loyal voter has not showed up. donald trump is not on the ballot in 2018. so can he effect the ballot? i don't know. i'll pivot back to jeff sessions which is a part of this conversation. jeff sessions was not a house hold name before and now people in the conservative movement know who he is, and especially people on the fringes. he was a member of the most exclusive club in the world, which is the united states senate and i would pay attention to lindsey graham and the senators, he's their friend. even if they were on the other

side, even if they didn't vote for his confirmation, you will see a camaraderie like you've never seen coming out of the u.s. senate against donald trump. especially for the fact that sessions has been extremely loyal to him. so that is our confusion. but confusion is the name of the game now. and people are hurt and don't understand exactly the direction. but i tell you that 2018 is going to be a bench mark for the republican party. the democrats are going to have to find some better candidates than they have right now. there is 10 -- 10 senate seats out there that donald trump won by double-digits and i don't think they are concerned about that show just yet but we'll see. but again, i'll repeat, i haven't seen the trump voters moving anyplace in the electorate so far where it is not donald trump directly involved. >> right. if they could just stay home. and richard on that subject of kurt threw out the idea of firing jeff sessions, but rather

moving him to homeland security which means he still keeps a job. could and should republicans in the united states senate object to that or try to stop donald trump from moving him. because that would be clearly a move to try to kill the russia investigation. >> that would obviously be a move to kill the russia investigation. it would be regarded as criminal obstruction of justice if it then were used to try to terminate bob mueller. and i don't care who the attorney general is, i don't think an attorney general or an acting attorney general is going to interfere with the russia investigation and risk going to jail. i don't think he's going to find somebody to do that job for him. so getting rid of jeff sessions and we'd had to go back for another confirmation would be a ludicrous move. the president needs to understand this is a country where there is a rule of law and

if there is a russia investigation by mueller, that is not going to stop and there is nothing he could do to stop it. he ought to focus on doing his job and lay off the russia investigation, and stop tweeting about it and picking on his attorney general. it is alienating everybody, including many americans who are sympathizing with jeff sessions who never identify with jeff sessions and his brand of politics. it is unifying the country against the president. this is a very bad situation for the white house. if they don't get control of themselves and focus on the important issues such as north korea and the many things that need to be dealt with in this world. >> yeah. while this circus is going on, the world is also going on. and donald trump doesn't seem to have much control over it. richard painter, thank you very much. kurt bard ella and katon dahson will stick around. and up next, the heroes who saved obamacare. stay with us.

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they should have approved health care last night. but you can't have everything. boy oh, boy. they've been working on that one for seven years. can you believe that. i said from the beginning, let obamacare implode. and then do it. i turned out to be right. let obamacare implode. in one of the most jaw-dropping political moments since the election of donald trump, the republican plan to destroy obamacare failed in dramatic fashion in the wee

hours on friday along with every one of the senate democrats, three republican senators rejected the so-called skinny appeal. and to the surprise nay vote of john mccain but the other two republicans susan collins and lisa murkowski had a tougher time of it. voting their conscious despite threats from fellow lawmakers and the administration. and don't forget the activists and order neri citizens who fought for the right to health care. they put it all on the line and won. at least for now. katon dawson is back and joining me kareem john pierre and perry bacon jr. of 538.com. and this is a week when we got the media getting its wish to see the john mccain maverick of legend emerge and take down the obamacare repeal. but are people sort of missing the plot just a lit bilit. because john mccain and murkowski did not say they

opposed repealing and replacing obamacare, they opposed the way mitch mcconnell is running the senate, right. >> at the end of the day you had three bills, repeal and delay, repeal and replace and skinny repeal which was not very skinny. but i think in some ways the policy of all of the ideas was rejekded. like nevada's dean heller voted for the final bill but said no to the first two and that made it hard tore pass anything. so i think there was a part of the feeling with john mccain and you saw him comments where they were focused on the process, the process was bad, like the process. but there are other members who are unhappy with the policy and they made it hard for mcco -- mcconnell to pass anything. and lindsey graham and ron johnson and others were saying i'll vote for this bill but i hate this version, too. and the house has the changes. so there was an underlining

policy problem throughout here and that is important as well. >> and i agree with that. definitely agree with that. but in terms of the policy problem, careen, the people with the most on the line in terms of the medicaid expansion, like shelly more kansas city capito and den healer and both have large medicare in their states and here have r the statements from collins and murkowski who were against the bill. collins said the democrats made a big mistake when they passed the aca without a single republican vote and they say this is flawed and portions of the country is in near collapse and rather than engaging in bipartisan exercises, republicans and democrats are not giving any votes. so it is weird blaming them for nonbipartisanship. so going on to lisa murkoy ski. on friday, i voted no last night because both sides must do a

better -- on process and substance. the affordable care act remains a flawed law that i'm committed to reforming with a structure better for all americans but to do that the senate must devote itself to improve the health care system in this country and let's listen to a little bit of john mccain and this was john mccain on tuesday talking about his lack of the support for the bill. >> why don't we try the old way of legislating in the senate. the way our rules and customs encourage us to act. if this process ends in failure, which seems likely, then lets return to regular order. >> so let's just say that the -- mitch mcconnell takes up the republicans -- the republicans on that and said, okay, i failed at trying to force this through with my 50 plus votes and let's go into regular order and redebate adjusting the affordable care act. how will the activist community

respond to democrats that participated in that process. >> look, i think that this is definitely a zombie bill and it will probably rear its ugly head and we'll have to -- the activists will have to take that bill and put it back into the zombie grave, absolutely and that is going to have to happen. and we hope that democrats on the senate will listen to us and make sure that whatever is happening, whatever mitch mcconnell does, it doesn't take away health care from mills of people. and one thing to point out, two years ago, john mccain and murkowski voted to repeal health care. i think what happened now is obamacare became popular and people did not want their health care being taken away from them. and people stood up. american people, activists stood up and they went to the streets and made phone calls and said this is not going to happen and you're not going to repeal obamacare. but if we go back six months ago, this was supposed to be an easy one for republicans. on day one, donald trump said himself, i'm ready, i have a pen

to sign a bill to repeal obamacare. this was not supposed to happen for republicans. but it did. because it was just unpopular, what they were trying to do. every bill that they put forth was unpopular. and people wanted to have a health care kicking 20 million people off of their health care was not a popular thing. but i have to say, joy, i think the thing that is the most concerning right now is donald trump will try to undermine the health care, obamacare. he did that -- he started doing that on day one when he signed an executive order asking all of his agencies to do whatever they can to dismantle obamacare and that is the concern that we have right now. he took -- that same day he took an oath to uphold the laws of the land and here he was trying to undermine obamacare right at the go. so we have to really be -- zero in on that because he is going to try to dismantle it, defund

it. bleed obamacare. >> that would be crazy, katon dawson, you do politics for a living, if he were to collapse the nongroup market to refuse to fund subsidies, republicans will own that. that is insane. but comment on that as a strategy, trying to let the nongroup market collapse by defunding it and also the strategy of going after red state senators whose votes you need. this extraordinary thing that happened when the secretary of the interior went after and contacted the two senators from alaska, including lisa murkowski who was on the fence and threatening the em on my of alaska and he said i fear the strong [ inaudible ] are going to stop going after -- was that wise, and how do red state voters react to the fact their president, their guy would attack their state's economy to bully their senator? >> let me tell you what little

bit i know about alaska and lisa. when you go to attack those people, you better take two sandwiches because she'll eat the first one for lunch and maybe give you the second one back. and not only that, since when did an administration decide to do that kind of threat. we're pretty good at that. we used to be good at it. where at least it was quiet and we do it on the napkin instead of wide open and get caught. isn't that right, perry? >> exactly right. >> so when did we start doing that? that is rookie. so let me come back to the politics of health care. there were no winners this week. none. you are either on the preserve and protect side, or on the replace and repeal side. that is how the public is seeing it. the failure and when it does collapse, if nothing is done, they might think they could blame it on president barack obama and his team but they are laughing buckets of tears over this because we own it, we are in charge. the republicans are in charge of this. and that is how the voters see

it and what happens when you have these type of calamities as you have voter apathy. and the question is will the excitement be on the preserve and protect obamacare or on the still repeal and replace and fix. i don't know. all i've told you is, if you own health care, you probably going to lose at the ballot box. i don't know who owns it right now. >> and the idea of collapse is about the nongroup market. you are talking about the very people republicans got to pull over to donald trump. you are talking about small business owners, you are talking about individuals who buy in the nongroup market, that is the exchange. it is not the medicaid side. it is the same people republicans go after as voters and let me really quickly end with perry bacon jr. donald trump had a tweet storm this morning where he was trying to goad mitch mcconnell to end the filibuster in the senate and get rid of the 60 vote threshold. is that ever going to happen and how crazy is that as a ask? >> it is a crazy ask.

mitch mcconnell told him not to do it. his ex chief of said is where is this idea is coming from and i thought there was no leadership at the white house. and willing to think about it, john mccain talked about all week long we need to have a more bipartisan process and he kept saying that. i wonder if he's being naive or misunderstanding what is going on. the republicans are not obsessed with fixing health care. this is a drive to repeal something barack obama did. and it is impossible because any democrat who likes the proposal means it doesn't feel the goal for republicans it is just attack something obama did. >> we'll be back. pbj, thank you. we'll have you back on again soon. and coming up in the next hour, thank you trump, encouraging police brutality and compares himself to abraham lincoln. more "am joy" after the break. shawn evans: it's 6 am.

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with donald trump and mitch mcconnell and paul ryan running the federal government, we've seen a giant change in medicaid. when we come back, bishop william barber will be here for a motion on making laws that hurt the poor. don't go away. ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum

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he walked from north carolina. walked. the lord told him in the pulpit to grab $200. didn't have anything else. didn't know how he was going to make it here. >> they would sit at her wheelchair for a couple of days and understand what it takes. i don't know a whole lot. i can't quote a lot of scripture, but i can quote one. i can't quote it word for word. that is god to the law of god

first and the law of god before the neighbors and yourselves in. >> it's credited to the rerentless grass roots activisms all over the country. including by religious leaders who rallied against a bill that threatened to deprive tens of millions of people of health care. joining me now is the bishop dr. william barber. a leader of the d.c. protests. thank you so much for joining us, bishop barber. i always love talking with you. tell us about the gentleman you were talking to and about his situation with his daughter. >> yeah. the reverend is a tremendous brother. i happened to meet him first over the phone when he was calling to come to d.c. he was walking. he called our north carolina senator, and asked to meet with him. he told him he could meet with his aides. i called bernie sanders and cory booker. they met with him. his daughter cannot walk or

talk. she's permanently in a wheelchair. this man walked from rockinghamm to d.c. to say you don't know what you're doing and the people you're hurting. he said i'm not a republican or a democrat. i'm just a preacher, and i know one thing. love should be the guiding principle of public policy. the scripture he quoted love the lord your god and love your neighbors are the two most potent scriptures in the bible. he said these people were loving their political position than the people they serve. >> you and other pastors had a moral declaration. i'll read a little bit. you said as people of faith we remind every elected official that public service calls for sound moral judgment. this bill, this is the health care repeal bill has a test of whether you can withstand partisan pressure and do what's best for your constituents.

others would say is it fair to assign a moral rightness to one party's position on health care and not to the other? >> actually, we weren't assigning it to either party. we were saying health care itself, caring for the sick is a human right. it's not a republican or democratic issue. a right or wrong issue, a left issue. i don't news those terms. it really is a moral position that is laid down in scripture in all the major religions. in fact, jeremiah 22 says when you go to leadership, you're supposed to tell them to do these things, attend to justice, rescue victims from the explo exploite exploiters. don't take advantage of the stranger. care for the children and stop killing the innocent. you go over to the new testament, jesus says went out of the nations, not individuals. he says to the nation, when i was sick, did you care for me? so it's amazing to me how all of these people like to put their hand on the bible and swear themselves into office, and then not know what's in the

scriptures or then only apply it when it comes to things, certain private matters, and not these public policies that they are passing. that's why the disabled community, the civil disobedience, clergy, 7,000 nuns, thousand of people. we need to be arguing over whether or not we provide health care for all our citizens is immoral, and it does not line up with our deepest religious or constitutional principles. >> yeah, and lastly, you had the justice department just come out and say the civil rights laws don't protect gay people. you have the conservative moment wrap itself around religion but take these kinds of positions. what do you make of that? >> it's the strangest thing i've ever seen. watching this week how many people had a lot to say about me saying you don't just pray for presidents or any leader. you're supposed to pray in line with god's will and challenge leaders. now they're saying the civil rights law shouldn't protect all

people. the fact is the scriptures say we're to love everybody without exception. >> indeed. bishop, thank you for being here. always appreciate you. >> thank you so much. >> up next, the new white house strategy let trump be trump, as if he hasn't been trumping the whole time. more a.m. joy after the break. i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open.

>> i had the biggest brigades. i said how long would it take you to straighten out this problem. he said, he gave me the authority. a couple of days. he gave me a card. and i sent it to the mayor. i said, you ought to try using this guy. guess what happened. never heard. i said please don't be too nice. like when you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting their head. you know? the way you put your hand, like

don't hit their head and they just killed somebody. i said you can take the hand away. okay? >> on friday donald trump spoke to a group of police officers on long island. he suggested the mayor of chicago could solve the problem of gun violence by taking the advice of a rank and file trump met while visiting the windy city. he praised immigration officers for being, quote, rough, and seemed to encourage them to avoid protecting suspect's heads when they're placed in police cars during the arrest. many of the officers applauded, but the it's alarming. but perhaps it's not spriziurpr given the other two speeches he gave this week. >> just a question. did president obama ever come to a jamboree. >> with the exception of the late, great abraham lincoln, i can be more presidential than

any president that's ever held this office. >> he better get them, otherwise i'll say tom, you're fired. i'll get somebody. and by the way, under the trump administration, you'll be saying merry christmas again when you go shopping. yes, our second majority is very, very sound again. oh, you're boy scouts, but you know life. you know life. >> they don't know life. they don't. they're children. sorry. trump's remarks at the boy scout jamboree were so politically incendiary and the complaints from parents including some threatening to pull their kids from scouting were so widespread that the chief executive of the boy scouts of america was forced to apologize for letting politics into the jamboree. but trump isn't apologizing. he did the opposite. he dropped any pretense of seeming presidential, as the

white house communications team has a new boss and a new directive. >> i want the president to be the president. and i want him to express the full nature of his personality. corey lewandowski used to say early on in the campaign, let trump be trump. it's a little disrespectful now because he's the president. let the president be the president. >> joining me ted lieu of california, jason law, jamile smith. i'm going to go to the congressman. we'll do proet cotocol as well. before i get your comment on donald trump's commentary about police and essentially telling them be more brutal, this is the response of the suffolk county police department. this is where he was speaking on friday. they sent these tweets. there are strict rules and procedures related to the handling of prisoners.

vitals of the rules are treated seriously. as a department we do not and will not accept roughing up of prisons. a police chief, "the new york times" reported he was sentenced to four years in prison for beating a prisoner. what do you make of the president encouraging police brute lichl of suspects? >> it's discouraging he's promoting police brutality. he's asking police officers to violate the law. police officers took an oath to protect and defend the constitution. if they listen to the president, they'll be subjecting themselves to discipline and their cities and counties through massive lawsuits. in one week donald trump got rebuked by the boy scouts, by the pentagon, by the national association of police chiefs. you really got to try to be that

bad. >> yeah. we'll come back to the boy scout thing. jason, when donald trump was saying, first of all he used the term paddy wagon. that's offensive to people of irish dissent, but when he talked about being rough, throwing suspects into the back of the van, all i could think of was freddie gray. this is what was done to freddie gray. he was thrown roughly into a police van. his neck was so fractured that he died. what did you make of the president of the united states using that particular imagery with police standing all around him? >> a couple things occurred me. i'm faculty at morgan state. i texted my students, did you see this? they were disturbed that you would have the president of the united states basically encouraging a rough ride, but this is what we see from this president. this is how he surrounds himself with. this is his general disrespect for the law and people of color. i hope we screen shot every

single cop that cheered. them cheering for someone advocating for breaking the law -- >> police do not encourage, and publicly say rough people up. in the chicago department side he made up a story. rob emmanuel said, nope, never heard of this person. this person doesn't exist. >> it's like his friend jim, of course. he consults on all things. >> and john barren. >> yes. the thing is trump is the same person who put out an ad in the new york daily news in may of 1989 calling for the death penalty for five innocent black and hispanic teenagers who had been accused of rape in central park. he's the same guy. that's 27 years ago. he's the same person.

what we have to really consider is that the president is going to start, spark this culture war because he has nothing else to do. it's literally all he's been doing this entire time. he's spoken in the language of white supremacy. he's been ineffective at pursuing his legislative goals. this is what he has left to do. the angrier he gets, the worse it will get. >> there's an element that's encouraging to his base, it's designed to keep his biase excited. i want to talk about how he talked about violence when he was running for president. >> there's a guy disruptive, throwing punches. we're not allowed to purge back anymore. i love the old days. you know what they used to do to guys like this when they did something like that? they'd be carried out on a stretcher. >> the guards are gentle with him. he's walking out, high fives,

smiling, laughing, i'd like to punch him in the face. >> if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously. okay. just knock the hell -- i promise you, i will pay for the legal fees. >> aside from the fact he probably wouldn't pay when he promised. amy, the republicans on the hill have a certain fear of the trump base. they go very quiet at the mention of donald trump. do republicans think this kind of rhetoric and encouragement of violence helps them in their reelects or are they weary of it at this point? >> no. i think there is a big divide. what you're seeing is president trump kind of riling up his base, because his base likes i. his base likes it every time he attacks, he goes on a tirade. every time he attacks the press. he's playing to his base. but on the other hand i'm hearing from republican sources every day now that this is so disconcerting to them. that they don't understand what's happening.

he's going off the rails. this is not what their party stands for, they say, and it's become increasingly problematic for republicans. >> and i wonder about that. you're serving with these folks in the house, congressman. the new white house communications director has adopted the trump style. maybe this is the way anthony scaramucci has always been. this is the way he talks to reporter about leakers. he said this. it's not him. i'm going to read it. he says what i want to do is i want to expletive, kill all the leakers and i want to get the president's agenda on track so we can succeed for the american people. that's the way the communications director talks to the press. do you detect among your colleagues in the house discomfort with that? >> i do. congress passed whistle blower protection laws to protect leakers. there are laws to protect you. we want to truth to get out to the american people, as long as it's unclassified information. and with regard to the new

communications director, his profanity is highly disturbing. i served in the air force. i believe in this country and the greatness in america. you're seeing with donald trump and his communications director, they're bringing this country down. they're making us weaker and teaching your children all the wrong things. >> on the political sides in terms of the strategy side, this is how donald trump is planning to be reelected. right? he knows there's a 30 to 38% of the country no matter what he does, they're with him. earlier they were talking about when we were speaking, the problem is the motivation might not be there. people don't see things getting pass. is that what this is about? >> yeah. he has to keep people angry and riled up. look, trump is a step away from just playing to dozens with congress. if you thought that was work, that's what he would do. here's the issue. we were talking about this earlier in the green room.

look, if you can't get anything done this year, next year no one is passing anything because it's election year. he is going to take a hit in this congress he's not supporting, they're going to get wiped out. the republicans get wiped out if they can't show they did anything. people want action. >> that is weird. we have heard from republicans and strategists, people like michael steel that donald trump wants to distance himself from congressional republicans. they are running for reelection next year. he's not. is he trying to make them lose? >> i don't think he cares if they lose. we've seen the white house distance i'm sorry from the institutional republican party, and now they're trying to do it by firing in reince priebus and putting in someone with no connection to congress or political experience. i think they're trying to send a message, not just we want our white house to run in a certain way, but that we don't need the republican party. so one day the republican party,

perhaps, perhaps, may wise up and realize that they don't really need him either. mike pence can sign these bills just as much as donald trump can. >> well, we'll go to you on that, amy. is there finally a sense among republicans that this one-way loyalty isn't useful to them in their reelections? >> they are loyal to him and he's not loyal to them at all. >> yeah. if they need it to be mutual, they don't feel like it's there. and health care should have been the number one example for what happens when you're not on the same page, when you just throw a bill together and republicans aren't even wholeheartedly supporting it. this is what happened this week, and this is why president trump is going to continue to run into obstacles. he calls himself a deal maker, but he is not. he's going around republicans and doing things that they don't like, and donors are starting to get really annoyed with him. i mean, we're seeing -- there's an up tick, i think, in the disappointment from republicans on the hill, his donor base.

i'm curious, and i think it's going to get even worse. >> indeed. it's a strange strategy. you don't want to work with either party. you don't like anybody. you can't be 525 people. our panel will be back with us. amy, thank you very much. we'll have you pack. coming up, a bill passed in the senate and the house. what? nowadays that's huge news. we'll tell you about this wildly popular bill, next. shawn evans: it's 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day. putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette. gillette - the best a man can get.

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what should i watch? show me sports. it's so fluffy! look at that fluffy unicorn! he's so fluffy i'm gonna die! your voice is awesome. the x1 voice remote. xfinity. the future of awesome. >> the nays are 2. the pibill is passed. >> wait a minute. >> what bill could possibly win 99 votes in the senate?

what bill koud could pass the house 419 to 3? a pay raise for members of congress, perhaps? nope. this overwhelmingly popular bill would impose sanctions on russia as well as iran and north korea. and perhaps more importantly, it would block the president from lifting russian sanctions without congressional approval. late on friday, the white house ended the suspense saying donald trump will sign the bill. that's ted liou, and our panel s here. congressman, were you surprised first of all, that the bill so easily sailed through the house when you had the administration attempting to push back on it? >> i was a little surprised, but let me first say, i don't have any problem with the united states trying to be closer to other countries including with russia. but i have a huge problem when the president of the united states seems to be beholden to russia. that's why both houses of

congress passed with overwhelming majority this law, or it's going to be a law that's going to make it harder for the path to lift sanctions. >> you've already had, malcolm, russia retaliating over the new sanctions even before donald trump announced he was going to sign it. "the new york times" reports russia seized to u.s. properties and ordered the u.s. embassies to cut staff. how do you expect russia to react to donald trump signing the bill? >> well, i really want to see donald trump sign the bill. >> you think he'll do it in public? >> maybe. probably not. and the question is whether he can delay actually signing it. he may come up and say there's some procedural reason that he can't, and then he may have to call moscow real quick and grudgingly sign the document. the way the state department has been cut, there's no problem with what the russians are doing in moscow proper.

but it remains to be seen what donald trump will actually do when vladimir putin calls and asks for an explanation. >> and here's the thing. the reason this is so important, this presumption and the question that keeps coming up, a lot of your colleagues ask this question, what does russia have on trump? let's say they do have something. would something like this, donald trump essentially putting pen to paper on sanctions against russia, said to do the opposite of what vladimir putin wanted to get out of the last election, would they use what they have? >> well, i would wonder whether whatever it is that they expected to get out of their bet on trump. because russia is pragmatic. vladimir putin is pragmatic. he knows there will be ups and downs in every relationship. when you're running an agent, he's going to know that sometimes they're going to work well, sometimes they need a little prodding. but this sword they used on the democrats cuts both ways, and they could have selective leaks of information.

they could have certain financial documents find their way out to sort of nudge these people along to being a little more compliant. and that's what they have compromised their integrity. >> and sara, it's interesting the game the white house is trying to play to kind of make up for the fact that they seem to be going against their own stated policies. the statement read president trump read early drafts of the bill and negotiated regarding critical elements of it. he has now reviewed the final version and approves the bill and intends to sign it. trump took it to a different level this morning. he retweeted a "fox and friends" tweet that read firm behind anti-trump dossier also worked for russia, senate witness said and adds his own commentary, in other words, russia was against trump in the election. and why not? i want a strong military and low oil prices.

witch hunt. he was referring to the testimony of a man who went before the senate judiciary committee on thursday. this is the guy behind the magnitski act. he died in jail. that's what it's about. what do you make of donald trump attempting to turn the tide and say he is going to sign it pause they fixed the bill, and b, russia really wasn't on his side? >> well, first in regard to the bill, i agree with malcolm. i'd like to see him sign this bill. he said he'll do many things. he'll release his tax returns and divest his businesses. he hasn't done them. i'm not 100% confident he'll sign the bill. in regard to the tweet, his allegation that russia did not want him to win is preposterous. you could look at trump's own words. about a year ago he sat in a press conference and asked russia for their assistance.

he said if you have hillary clinton's e-mails, release them. his son released his own e-mails showing they were already locked in a relationship with russia offering information. russian state media, all yearlong it notably back in 2 4 2014, 2015, just absolutely sucked up to trump and created this elaborate propaganda praising him as a great future american leader. there's this ongoing proof all over the place showing that russia wanted trump to win. and it's not hard to figure out why. on one hand you have hillary clinton who is going to keep the sanctions. who is going to be very tough and keep nato. and is going to investigate russian corruption. and on the other hand you have an orange pickup truck who is hooked up with oligarchs and possibly owes them money. putin is pragmatic, and this is an easy decision in terms of which candidate to back. >> do you think putin is disappointed in his pick?

>> i don't think he's disappointed. i'd like to point out something. i often joke that the the trump administration seems to mirror kremlin strategies almost identically, all the time. and that -- i once said that there's a kremlin political war fair management team somewhere inside the oval office giving them hints. but what he said with that tweet was exactly what the russians do. they deconstruct reality. they create a level of doubt to where now from this point on where donald trump will say, look, i already said, and it has been proven that i didn't cooperate with the russians because of my tweet the other day. and who are you going to believe? me or your lying videotape? i think putin is enjoying this ride. and they will get their ultimate goal which is sanctions lifted. >> yeah. and this bags the act that he wants gone. i'll let you fact check the other portion of their excuse, which is that the administration was in congress and they were unhappy with an early draft of

the dibill and tried to improve it. >> this is the strongest sanctions on russia ever that the u.s. congress has passed. whatever the white house tried to do, they failed. >> were they trying to weaken the sanctions or strengthen? >> they did not want this bill to hit the president's desk. if the president doesn't sign the bill, congress will simply pass it again or override his veto. he has no choice. >> in terms of the mechanics, if donald trump didn't sign the bill, what would happen? >> both houses of congress would pass it with the same margins. >> and send it again and send it until he vetoes it or -- >> exactly. there's huge bipartisan support for the notion that we do not trust the president on russia. >> yeah. the other question would be would republicans in congress actually use the authority? that is my source of doubt. is that even if you pass this, then the congress has to use the authority. there's been a lot of members of

the other party that i'm not so sure they would do it. we'll see. congressman, thank you very much. thank you to all of you. coming up, donald trump dusts off the old call role play book. i'll explain, next. ♪ backpack, check. that's the family taking care of business. awesome notebook! check. but who takes care of them? office depot / office max. this week, these composition books are just 25 cents each. ♪ taking care of business

the entire force, the entire chain of command will always has, will today and will tomorrow and always should treat every single coast guard, airman, with dignity of service for the cloth of our nation, bar none. >> donald trump once tweeted maybe i'm old fashioned but i don't like seeing women in combat. well, this week trump added to his list of people he wants to run out of the military. more on that and the military and pentagon response, next. your new social security alerts? oh! we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so you'll be in the know. ooh. sushi. ugh.

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this week the commander in chief found himself at odds with

u.s. military leadership. reportedly appall even his own defense secretary with his announcement about reensating ban on transgender people. it was delivered in the trump style in twitter. it follows in the footsteps of a perennial gop strategy of using the lgbtq strategy as a political football to activate their base. we saw it in 2004 when president bush solidified his support with a ban of gay marriage. ten years later in 2014, republican state lawmakers joined with conservative religious groups to assemble a national campaign to legalize discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. all leading up to this week. joining me now is tray crowder, jonathan kpart, curt, and katen

dawson. i'm going to go to jonathan first. the strategy in 2004 was effective in using gay maishlg to win elections. do you think that's what donald trump was doing here? >> yes, if his goal is to distract from real problems in the west wing. it seems to come from completely out of the blue. i remember getting the news alert that he had done this via twitter, and gasping at the notion that the president of the united states announced a major policy change in three separate tweets and not only banning transgender americans from service in the military, those who would want to join, but also making it clear that those who were already in the armed services, that they could potentially be kicked out. that is something that i think many people thought was over and

done with in terms of the discussion. the pentagon was undergoing a review of how to deal with the situation of transgender troops, because we all know they are there under the obama administration, the process was put into place to figure out how to make the lgbt member of the m military be cohesive under one policy. president trump up ended the apple cart. the great thing about what happened in all of this as horrible as it was, we saw the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff put out a message saying that we're not changing anything until we get something specific from the department of defense. we've seen that the secretary of defense in saying that the policy is unchanged until we get a directive, like a lawful directive from the president of the united states. and then more importantly, the

reaction from capitol hill is something extraordinary. when we went through, don't ask don't tell and the ending of don't ask don't tell, we heard some of the most outrageous things said about gay troops and lesbian and gay male troops in the military on what they would do to unit cohesion and effectiveness, and that went by the wayside when don't ask don't tell was done away with in 2010. what we see with senator oren hatch, they're saying they're born that way, they should be able to serve and that's the end of it. >> to have someone say this isn't even happening brings it to the realm that it was pure politics. on wednesday, they had a reporter, say the following. that the administration of the united states admitted they were just using it for politics. this forces democrats, as this is what an administration official said to jonathan swan.

this forces democrats in the rust belt state like ohio, michigan yerks and wisconsin to take ownership of this issue. how will the voters respond when people are up for reelection. was it smart to go ahead and admit that a major policy change potentially for the united states military was simply a way to win the midterms? >> i would like to think they were that smart and calculating, and my friend karl rove was, but he's not in the white house right now. i think that was a change the conversation moment. any time things aren't going well, change the conversation, move onto something else, whether it's uncomfortable or not. it also looked like it was a part of a bigger deal on the wall funding. it looked like it had mechanisms in it, and then it was tweeted out. the policy hadn't been given to the generals yet. the conversation we're having it this morning. maybe it does work.

i think there's so many things out there right now for the midterms, this might be one of the tag lines of what you want. the only thing i will give them they get credit for is any time a president looks like he's undoing something a democratic president did, the base will take it for what it is. i'm not sure how it plays out in the midterms. there's so much in the midterm to talk about. we're going to have to unpack it as we get closer. >> but trey, for the religious right and for people who do elections in the south and the red states where donald trump is popular, this is a sort of front page issue. tony perkins came out and cheered this, praised donald trump's decision to focus on military decisions. does this play with red state voters? do they care about something like this, or do they feel played? >> i think a lot of them were probably confused when they found out how many transgender people were in the military.

i want to support the troops, but i want to hate something different. i don't know what to do. but no, i mean, look, they absolutely, do these people have a problem with banning transgender people from the military? no. i'm sure they say it and they're like okay, fine, but is it something that i think they've been waking up every morning mad about? like so many other things? like gay marriage was for so long? not really. this is so much more left field to me. like out of left field than the previous kind of rallying issues they've had that i don't think it will be as effective in that manner, because i just don't think it's something that they care about or is on their radar enough. maybe that's the point, to get it on their radar. >> there have been so many bills. there's one popping up in texas. there was one in north carolina, fix dated transgender people in bathrooms. is transgender the new gay

marriage issue? >> yes. just like with the transgender military ban, when it was the bathroom thing, it was like when did this become a thing? it's like they just invented a controversy or a problem out of thin air, and i mean, you know, it does work as far as making headlines and rallying them around their flag in that way. so yes, and i think it's absolutely pause they finally admitted defeat with the gay marriage thing. it's like what's left? that works. transgender people. >> when you talk about headlines, it's about generating headlines in the state-run media that supports donald trump. is this the kind of thing effective at rerallying the -- the alt-right version of donald trump's base? >> i think there's some degree to that. i also think in some ways this is a bit of a troll. the more, i think that they believe that alt-right

conservative role believes the more the left talks about things like transgender issues, who uses the bathroom, these are issues that by and large do not impact the majority of the population. they don't want democrats focussed on the majority of the population, because once they hone in on a message that actually motivates them, because the trump white house isn't doing anything. congress isn't doing anything. the condition of this country isn't improving. they need these fringe issues to try to rally their base to keep motivation high to turn out to vote. to keep the conservative base engaged as they aren't fulfilling the promises they ran on like repealing obamacare successfully. i think these are troll issues. there's no plan to implement this. the joint chiefs had no idea this was going to happen. dod has no mechanism in place to execute this. there is no official directive other than a tweet. i think in some ways that trump and the white house and that bannon wing there throw things

out there to keep democrats centering on a message that will reach voters. there are a lot of people who don't like what's going on in the country and don't like what donald trump is doing, but they don't have an alternative right now in the democratic party. there's no messaging to them to inspire them to change sides. >> right. and jonathan, democrats are easy to troll. in the sense that they will react to something like this by saying oh, god, we have to stay away from the trans people because we're going to lose. is that a risk here? the democratic will throw the t in lgbt over the side because they're afraid it's identity politic and it will make them lose? >> i don't think so. and i think that's because of the reaction coming from the right, and coming from the right on capitol hill. and let's not discount the impact of someone like senator hatch of utah coming out and saying that transgender people are people, and they are born that way, and why are we going to treat them this way?

if democrats who are scared of the issue needed my cover, senator hatch gave to it them. >> to my panel, thank you for being here. up next, she's one of the democratic party's rising stars. is kamala harris the one to watch in 2020. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me,

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california's junior senator kamala harris has made quite the debut. she struck a defiant tone at the women's march in january. and her pointed rapid fire questioning in the senate intelligence committee hearings in the face of republican criticism and constant interruptions has turned her into a hero for many on the left. if the democrats want to take back the white house, they need to get behind their next rising star soon. is kamala harris it? back with me is our panel. i'm going to start with erika. before i ask you the question, i have to play my very favorite kamala moment from the hearings. here she is and jeff sessions. >> i need to be correct as best i can. >> i do want you to be honest.

>> i'm not able to be rushed this fast. it makes me nervous. >> she makes people -- she makes me nervous. >> yeah. >> is kamala the rising star that america needs? >> yes. yes, she is, and that's unfortunate for her. let me put it like this. i bonded with her in the back seat of a cadillac in 2008. it's not what you think. she was for obama and i was for hillary and we were walking and it was an mlk parade. she was outstanding then. she's beautiful. it has to be said. she's smart, she's competent, she's cautious, and that's the exact reason why she won't win the presidency of the united states. >> and that is because you think the sexism is too -- >> i think it's real. i think they're out for blood and will make you the wicked witch of the west. i think the worst thing we can do is tell everybody that she's the won, but she's obviously a star. >> that's interesting. and it is interesting because i want to play, and this is sound bite one, what happens when a woman becomes a figure that is

seen as authoritative. there's a thing that happens to the way people perceive her. people say elizabeth warren, she seems angry. this is kamala harris attempting to ask senator richard burr, attempting to speak and be interrupted by the chair of the intelligence committee in june. >> are you willing or are you not willing to give him the authority to be fully independent of your ability statutorily and legally to fire him? >> he has -- >> yes or no, sir. >> he has the full independence as authorized by those regulations -- >> are you willing to do -- >> would the senator suspend. the chair is going to exercise its right to allow the witnesses to answer the question, and the committee is on notice to provide the witnesses the courtesy which has not been extended all the way across. >> first of all, she gave the full angela eyes and then it

became a huge meme shoutout to angie. that is what happens on her own committee. >> yes, yes. >> so does -- does erica have a point, that just being a woman sort of puts you in this country out of it? >> she is a woman. she is a woman of color. she is a woman in an interracial relationship. she is a woman from california. all of these things are going to work against her if she were to become a national candidate, in addition to the fact that there will be comparisons, nonpositive kpashs comparisons to obama. >> donald trump is the president of the united states. >> when you're a white guy, competence is not used as an issue. this is the problem. if we ran a fair, open america of course she would be a great candidate. if she were a white male, of course people would say she's the next candidate. but we have seen with the turn of the worm over our last election system that this kind of person -- it may be a while before kamala harris can be on the national stage.

>> does she even get some static on the left from bernie sanders' supporters who don't like things about her or see her as a threat from him getting the nomination. so you're seeing the sharks are circling around her because people see her starting to rise. is she going to get cut off at the knees before she even gets a chance? >> yeah. here's the problem. that faction of the party really believes that race and gender and all things identity are divorced from class. and so those two things -- never the two shall meet. so when you have that being that vocal a faction of the party, you see people ruled out even before they have a chance to make a case. look, there is one candidate i feel like would be well suited to bridge that gap and that's senator sherrod brown of ohio. you have somebody -- >> so another white hat. >> yeah. but the thing is we need to have -- black women are the most loyal constituency of the democratic party. we need to have black women

representing the democratic party. >> and i've got to add this. if you look at alabama, georgia, south carolina, african-americans make up over 50% of the democratic primaries in the state. in georgia, black women are 42% of the primary. so if she ran, she's going to win some primaries. the question is can she win ohio, can she win ohio in a national election, can she win pennsylvania. >> and i think the other question is, and i'm glad you made the point that african-american women are the -- not only the most loyal constituency in the democratic party but vote at the highest rates of any american group period. these are the supervoters, right, are black women. asian americans are the fastest growing group of democratic voters, period, but also the fastest rising group in the democratic party's base. so you have those two things in one body, right? and women -- >> which checks a lot of boxes. >> right. so why shouldn't women of color have at least a veto power over who becomes the next nominee? what does it be that we have to please white rust belt voters

more than pleasing women of color? >> as congressman waters says, we have to reclaim our time. we have to reclaim my time and that's what you're asking for. you shouldn't ask for it, you should demand it. it's time to go out and make not only deals, but see how we can get in there and restructure it. nobody is going to give us anything, no one ever has. so we've got to make sure this happens. you're absolutely right. this isn't a woman who's ridiculously -- this is a woman who's ridiculously capable. she's a state's attorney. we have people like eric schneiderman and marilyn mosby doing real work, firewall work with the muslim ban and that type of thing. she's used to a good fight so i think we ought to stand up and stick up for her. it won't be easy for every reason that you said but it's got to happen. >> what kind of a timeline, it does seem to me that it was easier to elect a black man in a sense than to elect any woman. >> right. >> so what are we talking about? are we going to be the last

western country on earth? what are we talking about, 10 years, 20 years? >> a lot of it has to do with how bad this administration goes. in large part, obama got elected because bush was so bad. the people were -- we'll give it to a black guy now. literally. and then once he fixes it, it's in the hands of somebody else. the interesting thing is it could be years, it could be a decade. there would have to be another white man at the head of the democratic party and pick her as a vice president shl candidate. even obama said i might have showed up 20 years before the demographics called foir it andi think that's the case for kamala harris. >> and white men are so divide and mostly republican. >> yeah. >> what you have here is obama, yes, he showed up early. that actually gives me faith that kamala harris could be a viable candidate in 2020. again, she has to have a chance to make her case. i think that there are -- there's a -- >> i'm going to reclaim my time.

so thank you very much to erica alexander, jason johnson and jameel smith. that is our show for today. be sure to join us tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern for more "a.m. joy" live from los angeles. in the meantime, keep it right here on msnbc. dry eye symptoms? ready for some relief? xiidra is the first and only eye drop approved for both the signs and symptoms of dry eye. one drop in each eye, twice a day. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. remove contacts before using xiidra and wait at least 15 minutes before reinserting. chat with your eye doctor about xiidra.

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it's earned in every wash, and re-earned every day. tide, america's #1 detergent hey there, good day, everyone, i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's high noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. we have new reaction today on the white house shakeup. some republicans say they were shocked by some of the president's tweets and that recent profanity-laced attack from new white house communications chief anthony scaramucci. here's what gop congressman charlie dent told me earlier. >> i'd be less than honest with you if i didn't say that a lot of my republican colleagues are very concerned about this. we clearly -- we want to get on with the business of this country, and like some of us right now are actually talking about doing things in a