>> we ran out of t-shirts. we'll have some more tomorrow. >> that's going to do it for me this hourg. thank you at home for watching. i'm thomas roberts. msnbc this evening and joy reid is next. have a wonderful night. i had bringing aides sometimes with almost 300 motorcycles. even i was depressed. i said how long would it take you to straighten out this problem? he said if you gave me the authority, a couple of days. and he gave me a card. and i sent to the mayor. i said you ought to try using this guy. guess what happened? never heard -- i i said please don't be too nice. like when you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting

their head, you know, the way you put their hand -- like don't hit their head and they've just killed somebody. don't hit their head. i said you can take the hand away. okay? >> on friday donald trump spoke to a group of police officers on long island and suggested that the mayor of chicago could solve the problem of gun violence by taking the advice of a single rank and file officer he once met at the windy city. he priced immigration officers for being rough and seemed to encourage them to -- although many of the officers in the room applauded, trump's parent endorsement of police brutality is alarming but programs not entirely surprising given the other two speeches that trump gave this week. >> just a question. did president obama ever come to a jamboree? with the exception of the late, great abraham lincoln, i can be

more presidential than any president that's ever held this office. he better get them. oh -- otherwise i'll say tom, you're fired. i'll get somebody. and by the way, under the trump administration, you'll be saying marry christmas again when you go shopping. yes, our second amendment is very, very sound again. that would have been gonz oh. awe, you're boy scouts, but you know life. >> they don't know life. they don't. they're children. sorry. trump's remarks at the boy scout jamboree were so politically incendiary and the complaints from parents, including some who are threatening to pull their kids from scouting were so wide is spread that the chief executive of the boy scouts of america was forced to apologize for allowing politics into the jamboree. but trump, well, he's not apologized. in fact, he's done the opposite.

he's unleashed himself dropping any pretense of seeming presidential. coincidental just as the white house communications team has a new boss and a new director. >> i want the president to be the president and i want him to express the full nature of his personality. cory lewandowski used to say early on in the campaign let trump be trump. it's a little disrespectful now because he's the president. so let's let the president be the president. >> and joining me now representative ted lou of california jason johnson, contributing writer at the daily beast. thank you all for being here and i'm going to go first to the congressman because we're going to do protocol here as well. you're a former prosecutor before you were in congress. >> yes. >> what did you make of -- well, first, before i get krur comment on donald trump's commentary about police and essentially telling them be more brutal, this is the response of the sufficient to come county police department. this is where he was speaking on friday. they sent these two tweets. the spd has strict rules and

procedures relating to handling of prisoners. violation of those rules are treated very seriously. and they have a reason to be particularly sensitive on it this. the sul to come county police chief back in november of 2016 "the new york times" reported that he was sentenced to four years in prison for beating a subpoena. and they actually convicted and sentenced him for that. so what did you make of the former prosecutor and a member of congress of the president of the united states edge e encouraging police brute alism of suspects. >> thank you. it is highly disturbing that he is encouraging -- as a former prosecutor he's basically asking police officers to violate the law. police officers took an oath to protect and defend the constitution. if they listen to the president, now not only could they be violating the law they could be subjecting thersz to discipline and their cities and counties to massive lawsuits. let me say in one week donald trump got rebukd by the boy scouts, by the pentagon, by the

international association of police chiefs. you've really got to try to be that bad. >> when donald trump paddy wagon on which is truly offensive to people of irish doesn't. when he talked about being rough throwing suspects into the back of the van, all i could think of is freddie dra and i don't know if they have that video, but this is exactly what we've done into freddie gray. he was thrown roughel into the back of the police van. he died. what did you make of the president of the united states using that particular imagery with police standing all around him? >> on faculty at morgan state i'm in baltimore did you guys see this and they were disturbed and horrified that you would have the president of the united states basically encouraging a rough ride. but this is what we see from this president. this is how we surround himself with -- this is his general disrupt for the law and people of color.

and i'll be honest with you, i hope we screenshot every single cop who cheered because if any of them ever ever have a complaint against him them cheering should be one of the first things -- >> you also have him making up things. >> right. >> you have donald trump not only encouraging police tolk their worst selves something police departments do not encourage. they don't publicly say rough people up, but then on the chicago police department side he made up a story about talk tg to a police officer who said he could solve all the crime in chicago. rahm emanuel said nope, never heard of this person. >> it's like his friend jim, of course. >> and john bar ron. >> of course. the thing is here, look, trump is the very, very same person who put out an ad in the new york daily news in 1989 kaug for the death penalty for five innocent black and hiss panic teenagers who had been accused of rain in central park.

he's the same person. and so what we have to really consider is that the president is going to, you know, start -- spark this culture war because he's got nothing else to do. irts literally all he's been doing the entire time. he's spoeng hen in the language of white sprem's. ineffective at pursuing any of his legislative goals this is what he has to do. >> amy, you know, there is an element of this that obviously is encouraging his base. i want to play a little bit of the way that donald trump talked about violence when he was running for president in 2016. >> there's a guy totally disruptive, throwing punches. we're not allowed to punch back anymore. i love the old days. you know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this. they would be carried out on a stretcher, folks. >> thank you for the warning. i was ready for him, but it's

much easier -- the guys are very gentle with him. smiling, laughing, like to punch him in the face, i tell you. so if you see somebody getting ready to throw a take mow take, knock the crap out of them, seriously, would you. just knock the -- i promise you, i will pay for the legal fees. >> beside the fact that he probably wouldn't pay, you know, amy, do republicans on the hill, we know that they have a certain fear of the trump base, that they go very quiet at the mention of donald trump. do republicans think that this kind of rhetoric, this kind of encouragement of violence actually helps them or at this point are they we'rery of it? >> no. i think there is a big divide, joy. and what you're seeing is president trump kind of rielg up his base because his base likes it. his base likes it every time he attacks, he goes on one of these tie raids. every time he attacks the press, he's playing to his base. but on the other hand i'm hearing from republican sources every day now that this is so

disconcerting to them. that they don't understand what's happening. he's going off the rails. this is not what their party stands for, they say. and it's become increasingly problematic for republicans. >> and i wonder about that, because you're serving with these folks in the house, congressman. the new white house communications director has adopd the trump style. maybe this is the way anthony scaramucci has always been, but this is the way he talks now to a reporter about leakers. he said this. it's not him -- i'm going to read it. he says what i want to do is i want to expletive kill all the leakers and i want to get the president's agenda on track so we can succeed for the american people. that's the way the communications director talks to the press. do you detect among your colleagues in the house discomfort with that? >> i do. but let me first say congress passed whistle-blower protection laws to protect leakers. so if you're a whistle-blower, we're allowed to protect you because we want the truth to get

out to american people as long as it's unclassified information. >> sure. >> and with regards to the new communications director, his vulgarity and profanity is vial hi disturbing. i served active duty in the air force because i believe in this country and you're seeing what donald trump and his communications drek store, that they are bringing this country down and making us weaker and teaching our children all the wrong things. >> i mean, i guess, you know, you guys on the political side in terms of the strategy side, this is how donald trump is planning to be reelected, right, because he knows that there's a 30 to 38% of the country that no matter what he does they're going to be with him any way. earlier in the show -- or earlier when we were speaking with him that the problem is the motivation might not be there and the people don't see things getting passed and so their drive and energy to vote -- even if they like donald trump. is that what this is about. >> he has to keep them angry, riled um. look, trump is a step away from dairk people say oh, yeah, he's

taking them down. hooer is the issue, though. look, if you can't get anything done this year, next year no one is passing anything because it's an election year and he's going to take a hit in this very congress that he's not is the being these republicans will get wiped out next year if they can't show they've done anything. people want action. >> we've heard from republicans and strategist that donald trump wants to distance himself from congressional republicans, but they are running for re-election next year. he is not. how does that work? is he trying to make them lose. >> i don't think he cares whether or not they lose. we've seen this white house distance itself from the institutional republican party in so many different ways. and now it seems like they're formally trying to do it by firing reince priebus, by putting in someone who has no political experience, no connection to congress. you know, frankly, i think that they're trying to send a message not just that, hey, we want our white house to run a certain way

but that we don't need the republican party. so one day the republican party, perhaps, perhaps may wise up and realize that they don't really need him either. mike pence can sign these bills just as much as donald trump can. >> we'll just go to you on that, then, amy. is there finally a sense among republicans that this one-way loyalty isn't useful to them in their re-election? >> oh, yeah. if they need it to be mutual, they don't feel like it's there. and health care should have been the number one example for what happens when you're not on the same page, when you just throw a bill together. and republicans aren't even wholeheartedly supporting it. this is what happened this week and this is why president trump is going to continue to run into obstacles if he -- he calls himself a dealmaker, but yet ultimately he is not. he's going around republicans and doing things that they don't like. and donors are starting to get really annoyed with him. i mean, we're seeing, you know -- there's an up particular, i

think, in the disappointment from republicans on the hill, his donor base. i'm curious and i think it's going to get even worse. >> indeed. it's a strange strategy. you don't want to work with any party. you don't like anybody. you can't be 535 people, donald trump. you can be only one. thank you very much. we'll have you back. and coming up, a big passed in the senate and the house. what? nowadays, that's huge news. we'll tell you all about this very wildly popular bill next. oscar mayer is making big changes to hot dogs. we went back to the drawing board...

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the yaz are 98. the yauz are 2. the bill is passed. >> wait a minute. what bill could possibly win 98 votes in the senate? what bill could possibly pass the house 419 to 3. was it a post office naming, a resolution that apple is the most american of pies? a pay rice for members of congress, programs. nope. this overwhelmingly popular bill would impose sanctions on russia as well as iran and north korea and programs more importantly it would block the president from lifting russian sanctions without congressional approval. late on friday the white house ended the suspense saying donald trump will sign the bill. congressman, were you surprised, first of all, that the bill so easily sailed through the house when you had the administration down there attempting to push back on it? >> i was a little surprised. but let me first say i don't

have any problem with the united states trying to be closer to other countries, including with russia, but i have a huge problem when the president of the united states seems to be beholden to russia. that's why both houses of congress passed with overwhelming majorities this law or it's going to be a law to make it harder for the president to lift sanctions. and the message we're sending is donald trump, we don't trust you to do the right thing on russia. >> yeah. and you've already had, malcome, russia retaliating for these new sanctions even before donald trump announced that he was going to sign it. new york times reports that russia has seized two u.s. properties and ordered the u.s. kbaesz to cut staff. how do you expect russia to react to donald trump signing the bill? >> oh, i really want to see donald trump sign the bill. >> do you think he'll do it in public? >> well, maybe. >> yeah. >> probably not. and the question is whether he can delay actually signing it. he may come up and say there's some procedural reason that, you know, he can't, and then he may have to call moscow real quick

and grudgeingly -- let me tell you and, the way the state department has been cut there's no problem with anything that the russians are doing in moscow proper. we're moving diplomats and taking them to recreation facilities. it remains to see what donald trump actually does when vladimir putin calls and sklgs for an explanation. >> a lot of your colleagues asks this question, what does russia have on trump, right? and let's say they do have something. would something like this, donald trump essentially putting pen to paper on sanctions against russia essentially doing the opposite of what vladimir putin wanted to get out of the election, would they use what never? >> well, i would wonder whether whatever it is that they expected to get out of their -- because russia is -- vladimir putin is pragmatic. he knows there's going to be subpoenas and downs in every relationship. when you're running an agent as

this former kgb director he's going to know sometimes they work well, sometimes they need a little prodding. but this sword that they used on the dmgs cuts both ways. and they could have selective leaks of information. they could have,up, certain financial documents find their way out to sort of nudge these people along to being a little more compliant. >> being -- >> that's what compromised their integrity. >> it's interesting sort of the rope adope or the game that the white house is trying to play to make up for the fact that they seem to be going against their own official policies. president donald trump read early draft of the bill he has now reviewed the final version and based on his responsiveness to negotiations approves the bill and intends to sign it. then trump took it to a different level this morning. he actually retweeted a fox and frepds, his favorite show tweet that read firm by antitrump

dossier and in other words russia was against trump in the 2016 election. and not that? i want a strong military and low oil prices. >> just for the viewers, he was referring, the testimony of a guy named bill browder who p went before the senate judiciary committee on thursday and he's an american businessman who represented magnitsky. kicked browder out of the country skpr be -- what do you make of donald trump -- he's going to sign it because they fixed the bill, and a, russia really wasn't on his side? >> well, first in regards to the bill, i agree with malmom. i'd like to actually see him sign this bill because he said he'll do many things, he'll release his tax returns. he hasn't actually done those things and so i'm not a 100% confident he's actually going to sign this bill. in regard to the tweet, his allegation that russia did not want him to win is just

absolutely prechous. you don't even need to look at third party sources to prove this. you could look at trump's own words. about a year ago he sat in a press conference and asked russia for their assistance. he said if you have hillary clinton's e-mails, release them. his son released his own e-mails showing that they were already locked in a relationship with russia offering information. russia state media, all your long and actually notably back in 2014, 2015 just absolutely sucked up to trump and created this elaborate propaganda praising him. there's been this on going proof all over the place showing that, you know, russia wanted trump to win. and it's is not hard to figure out why. on one hand you have hillary clinton who is going to keep the sanctions, who is going to be, you know, very tough and keep nato and going to investigate russian corruption and on the other hand you have an orange -- this is as malcome said putin is

very pragmatic and this is a very easy decision in terms of which candidate to back. >> do you think at this point putin is disappointed in his pick? >> no, i don't think so he's disappointed at all. i often joke that the trump administration aseems to mirror kremlin strategy almost all the time. i once said that there's a kremlin political warfare management team somewhere in the oval office giving them hints. what he said with that tweet was exactly what the russians do. he construct reality. they create a level of doubt to where now from this point onward donald trump will say -- look, i already said and it has been proven that i didn't cooperate with the russians because of my tweet the other day. >> right. >> and who are you going to belief, me or your lying videotape? so i think putin is enjoying this ride and they will get their ultimate goal, which is sanctions lifted. >> yeah. and this particularly that's the

magnitsky act -- i'll let you fact check, congressman. the other portion of their excuse which is that the administration was in congress and they were unhappy with an early draft of the bill and tried to improve it. is that true. >> this is the strong egs sanctions on russia ever that the u.s. congress has passed. so whatever the white house tried to do, they failed. >> were they trying to weaken the sanctions or strengthen them? >> oh, they were trying to weaken it. they didn't want this bill to hit the president's desk and if the president doesn't sign the bill congress will simply pass dpen or override his veto. so he really has no choice. >> in terms of just the mechanics of it, if donald trump simply didn't sign the bill, what would happen? >> both houses of congress would pass again with the exact same margins. >> and they can just keep doing that until he either vetoes it or -- >> exactly. because there's huge bipartisan

support. >> and the other question would be would republicans in the congress actually use the authority because that is my actual source of doubt. there's been a lot of members of the other party that i'm not so shoo you are that they would do it. we will see, i guess. congressman thank you very much. coming up, donald trump dust off the old carl roef playbook. i'll explain next. and new dishes like southern king crab and dueling crab legs with delicious dungeness and sweet snow crab. it's all happening at crabfest. and crabfest is only happening at red lobster. now this is seafood. there's nothing more important so when i need to book a hotel, i want someone who makes it easy. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. visit booking.com. booking.yeah!

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same goes for you, budget overruns. and rising costs, wipe that smile off your face. we're coming for you, too. for those who won't rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. optum. how well gets done. the entire force, the entire chain of command will always, always has will today and will tomorrow and always should treat every single soldier, sailor, air man, marine, coast guard with dignity and respect for their service bar none. >> donald trump once tweeted maybe i'm old-fashioned, but i don't like seeing women in combat. well, this week trump added to his list of people he wants to run out of the military. more on that and the military and pentagon response next.

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this week the commander in chief found himself at odds with u.s. military leadership. reportedly apaulg even his own defense secretary with his announcement about reinstating a military ban on transgender people. the out of the blue policy change was delivered in the usual trumpian style on twitter, but it follows in the footsteps of a strategy of using the lgbtq community as a political football to activity their base. we saw it in 2004 when george w. bush solidified his support among christian conservative with a push for a constitutional amendment banning guy marriage. ten years later in 2014 republican state lawmakers joined with conservative religious groups to assemble a national kpien to legalize discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. all leading up to this week and a new republican president using the same old tactics.

thanks allful you. i'm going to you first actually on this. that strategy in 2004 was very effective of using guy marriage and people's discomfort to win laeks. do you think that's what donald trump was doing here? >> yes, if his goal is to distract from some very real problems emanating from his west wing. but it seems to come from completely out of the blue. i remember getting the news alert that he had done this via twitter and gasping at the notion that the president of the united states announced a major policy change in three separate tweets. and not only banning transgender americans from service in the military, those who would want to join, but also making it clear that those who were

already in the armed services, that they could potentially be kicked out. this is and that i think many people thought was over and done with in terms of the discussion. the pentagon was undergoing a review of how to deal with the situation of transgender troops, because we all know they are there. under the obama the process was put into place to figure out how to make the lgb and the t members of the military all be cohesive under one administrative policy. and what donald trump has done, at least with those tweets is to up end the apple cart. but the great thing about what happened in all of this, as horrible as it was, we saw the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff put out a message saying that we're not changing anything until we get something specific from the department of defense. we've seen that the secretary of defense is saying that the

policy is unchanged until we get a drek active, like a lawful drek active from the president of the united states. and then more importantly, the reaction from capitol hill is something extraordinary. when we went through don't ask don't tell and the ending of don't ask, don't tell, we heard some of the most outrageous things said about guy troops and lesbian and guy male troops in the military and what they could do with unit cohesion and effectiveness. and that all went by the wayside. what we see here now, especially with senator orrin hatch where you have a senior republican conservative member of congress saying they're born that way, they should be able to serve and that's the end of it. >> yeah. it's interesting. and, you know, to have dunn ford say this isn't even happening really sort of brings it into the realm. axios on wednesday had one of its reporters jonathan swan say

the following. the administration actually admitted that they were using it for politics. this is what an administration official said to him. this forces democrats in the rust state like ohio, mib and wisconsin to take complete ownership much this issue. how will the blue collar voters in these states respond are forced to make their opposition to this a key plank of their campaign. was it smart to go ahead and admit that a major policy change potentially for the united states military was simply a way to win the midterms? >> i would like to think that they were that smart and calculating and certainly my friend karl rove was, but he's not in the white house right now. i think that was a change the conversation moment. anytime things aren't going well for you, let's change the conversation, move on to something else, whether it's uncomfortable or not. it also looked like it was a part of a bigger deal on the wall funding. it looked like it had all kind of mechanisms in it and then it

was tweeted out. so the policy hadn't been given to the generals yet. the conversation, we're having it this morning, so maybe it does work. i think there's so many things out there right now for the midterms that this might just be one of the tag lines of what you want. the only thing i will give you, they get credit for is anytime a republican president looks like he is undoing something that a democratic president did, the base will probably take it for what it is. i'm not sure how it plays out in the midterms, but there is so much we're going to have in the midterms to talk about that we're going to have to unpack all of that as we get closer. >> for the religious right and for people who does do elections in the south and the red states where donald trump is popular. tony perk kins came out and cheered this, praised donald trump's decision to focus on military policies. does this play with red state voters? do they care about this? >> i think a lot of them were

probably kind of confused once they found out there's like 15,000 strans gender people already in the military because it's like, i want to support the troops, but i alsoment to hate something different. i don't know what to do. but no, i mean, look, they absolutely -- do these people have a problem with banning transgender people from the military? no. i'm sure they see it and like yeah, okay, fine. but is it something i think they've been waking up every morning mad about like so many other things, like guy marriage was for so long? >> no, not really. this is just so much more left field to me, like out of left field than the previous kind of rallying issues they've had that i don't think it will be as fektd active in that manner because i just don't think it's something that they care about or is on their radar enough. now, maybe that's the point, to get it on their radar. >> there have been so many bills, there's one popping up in

texas, one in north carolina fixated on transgender people and bathrooms. is transgender the new guy marriage in red states? >> yes. yeah. that's been my theory on that since it -- because just like with the transgender military ban when it was the bathroom thing, it was like when did this become a thing? >> right. >> it's like they literally justin vented a controversy or a problem out of thin air. and i mean, you know, it does work as far as making headlines and rallying them around their flag and that way. so i mean, yes, and absolutely because they finally admitted defeat with the guy marriage thing. and it's like well, what do we do now? what's left? oh, yeah. okay, that will work. transgender people. >> curt, when you talk about headlines, it's about generating headlines on breitbart and in sort of the state-run media that supports donald trump. is this the kind of thing effective at rerallying that alt right, you know, version of donald trump's base? >> i think there's some degree

to that. i also think in some ways this is a bit of a troel. the more that they believe that alt right conservatives -- the more that the left talks about things like transgender issues, who uses the bathroom, these are issues that by and large do not exact the majority of the population. they don't want democrats focused on the majority of the population because once they honey in on a message that actually motivates them because the trump white house isn't doing, republicans in congress aren't doing anything, the condition of this country isn't improving, they need these fringe issues to try to ali their base to keep motivation high to turn out the vote, to keep the conservative base engaged as they aren't fulfilling the promises that they ran on like repealing obamacare successfully. so i think in i lot of ways these are troel issues that they throw out there. again, there's no plan to complement this. the joint chiefs have no idea this was going to happen. dod has no mechanism to execute

this because fls no official drek active other than a tweet. so i think in some ways that trump and the white house and that bannon wing will throw things out there to try to get everybody enraged, talking about that and keep democrats primarily from actually strg a message that will reach voters. because let me tell you, there are a lot of people who don't what's going on in this country, but they don't have an alternative in their minds right now. there's no messaging to them to inspire them to change sides. >> right. and democrats are very easy to troel. they will react to something like this by saying, oh, god, we have to stay away from the transpeople because we're going to lose. the democratic party will throw the lgbt community over to the side because they're afraid it's identity politics and it will make them lose. >> i don't think so. and i think that's because of the reaction coming from the right. and coming from the right on capitol hill. and let's not discount the impact of someone like senator orrin hatch of utah coming out

and saying that transgender people are people and they are born that way, and why are we going to treat them this way? if democrats who are skartd of this issue needed any kind of cover, senator orrin hatch gave it to them. >> thank you guys for being here. and up next, she's one of the democratic parties rising stars. is ka malla hairs the one to watch in 2020. don't go away. at panera, a salad is so much more than one thing.

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california's junior senator democratic kamala harris has made quite the washington debut. the former prosecutor is the second black woman and first indian american woman elected to the united states senate. she struck a defiant tone and her pointed rapid fire in the face of republican criticism and constant interruptions has turned her into a hero for many the will effect. if the democrats want to take back the bhs, they need to get behind their next leader and rising star soon. so is kamala harris the party's new hope? joining me now is erica alexander. i'm going to start with you on this erica. but before i ask you the question, i've gt to play my very favorite kamala moment from her -- from the hearings. here she is and jeff sessions.

>> so i need to be correct as bestic. >> i do want you to be honest. >> i'm not able to be rushed this fast. it makes me nervous. >> makes people -- it makes me nervous. kamala, the rising star that america needs? >> yes, she is. and that is unfortunate for her. and like this, i bonded with her in the backseat of a cadillac in 2008. not what you think. she was for barack obama and i was for hillary and we were walking and it was an mlk parade and she was out stastanding the and beautiful and she's smart and competent and she's cautious and that is exactly the reason why she won't win the presidency. >> and that's because you think the sexism. >> i think it is real. and they are out for blood and will make you the wicked witch of the west and the worst thing we could do is tell everybody she is the one but she is obviously a star. >> and that is interesting. and it is interesting because i want to play -- and this is a

sound bite one, what happens when a woman becomes a figure that is seen as authoritative. people -- or warren, she seems angry, you start to see this thing ham. that is kamala harris attempting to ask rich burr from new york and interrupted by the chair of the intelligence committee in june. >> are you willing or are you not willing to give him the authority to be fully independent of your ability statutorilly and legally to fire him. >> if he has -- >> yes or no, sir. >> he has the full independence -- >> are you willing to do -- >> the chair is going to exercise the right to allow the witnesses to answer the question and the committee is on notice to provide the witnesses the courtesy which has not been extended all the way across.

>> she gave the full ride. [ laughter ] >> and that became a meme. that is what happens to -- on her own committee. she does -- does erica have a point. being a woman sort of puts you almost in this country -- >> she is a woman of color in in an interracial relationship and from cal well a-- california an of these things would work against her with nonpositive comparisons to barack obama. >> and donald trump is president of the united states. >> exactly. >> but when you are a white guy, competency is not the issue. it is a for a certain kind of voter. but this is the problem. because we were in a fair open america. of course you would be considering a great candidate. if she were a white male, of course people would be saying she's the next kennedy but we've seen with the turn of the worm over the last election system this kind of person may be a while before kamala harris or anyone else like that could

really challenge -- >> and she even gets some static on the west. and supporters who don't like things about her or -- starting to see the short of sharks are circling around her is she going to get cut off at the knees. >> this is the problem. that faction of the party believes that race and gender and owl things identity are divorced from class. and so those two things, never the two shall meet. and so when you have that being -- that vocal, a faction of the party, what you see is people ruled out even before they have a chance to make the case. i mean, look, there is one candidate i feel like would be well suited to bridge that gap and that is senator sherrod brown of ohio. you have somebody that could talk to people. >> so why is that? >> and yeah, but the thing is,

we need to to have people -- black women are the most loyal co constituency and we need to have black women representing the democratic party. >> and if you look at alabama, you look at georgia and south carolina, african-americans make up over 50% of the democratic primary, in georgia black women are 42% of the primary. so she's going to win some primaries. the question is can she win ohio and on a national list and win pennsylvania. that is where we get into -- >> and the other question is, i'm glad you made the point, that african-american women are not only the most loyal in the democratic party and vote at the highest rates of any american group period, these are the most -- super voters, are black women. and asian americans are the fastest growing group of democratic voters period but also the fact this rising group in the democratic party base. so you have the two things in one body, right. and women -- >> which checks a lot of boxes. so why shouldn't women of color have -- at least veto power and

why is it always to please result belt voters than those of color. >> and the congressman said we have to reclaim my time. and that is what you are asking for. but you shouldn't ask, you should demand it. it is time to go out and make not only deals, but see how we could get in there and restructure it. nobody is going to give us anything and nobody ever has. and we have to make sure this happens and this is a woman who is ridiculously capable and a state's attorney and we have people like eric schneiderman and marilyn mosey doing fire ball work with the muslim ban and that type of thing. and she's got a good fight so we need to stand up and stick up for her but it is not easy and for every reason that she said but it has got to happen. >> and i'll throw it out to the panel, it does seem it was easier to elect a black man in a sense than to elect any woman.

>> right. so what are we talking about? are we the last western country on earth? are we talking ten years or 20 years, when will this country be ready. >> i think in a large part, barack obama got elected because bush was so bad. we'll give it to a black guy now. that is how bad it was. exactly. so then once he fixed it and then in comes somebody else. and i think it could be years. it could be a decade. it could be there is another white man at the head of the democratic party and pick her as a vice presidential candidate. i just don't think -- even barack obama said in the exit interview, i might have showed up before the democrats called for it and i think that may be the case with kamala harris. >> and because white women are so divided and republicans. >> exactly. >> and what you have here is barack obama, if he showed up early, but that gives me fathit that could be a viable candidate in 2020.

she has made her case and there are -- >> well i'm going to reclaim my time. thank you very much to erica, alexander, jason and jamil. that is our show for today. be sure to join us tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. for more "am joy" live from los angeles. and in the meantime, keep it right here on msnbc. ♪ when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites.

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>> tonight on "all in" -- obamacare is alive and the white house is in chaos. just hours after president trump's greatest failure to date, his chief of staff is out. >> reince is a superstar. >> and replaced with a general. >> john kelly, one of our real stars. >> tonight a new low for the trump presidency after last night's victory for the resistance. where the white house goes from here. >> they should have approved health care last night. but you can't have everything.