loss of actor sam shepard tonight. he died last week. >> i'm yasmin vossoughian along with louis burgdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. >> it's not illegal to lie to the press. does it bother you? >> it bothers me a lot. number one, he put his son in jeopardy. now we have to wonder about what don jr.'s team may have done. >> so the president said he wasn't involved in drafting a letter defending his son. that is not true. >> also known as, well, that's a lie. they lied. >> the president said he got a congratulatory call from the boy scouts. >> yeah, that didn't happen either. you know i'm connected with the

kid on the street. they don't go hey, that's not true, willie. they say "that's a lie." >> in "the wall street journal," when it says there's nobody in the campaign in russia. >> and they wohl ka tha-- would call that, willie -- >> a lie. >> sean spicer admits that he met with those at the center of the controversy. >> and the kid call that a steaming pile of pooh. >> what would we say to our children about this? >> i would say i'm going to send you to your room and i'm going to spank you. >> some parents don't believe in

spanking. >> my dad didn't believe in spanking. if i talked back to him, pow! >> sometimes it's against the law depending on who you lie to. >> so here's the problem. you got general kelly, the great american, american hero. he's given his all for this country. he has given his all for this country. great piece, we're going to talk about it. he gave his all. he gave his son for this country. he's sacrificed everything for this country and now he's going in for his country and he's trying to bring order to the cha chaos. he can't do that if they keep lying. there is a culture in that white house where' just the people that are the spokespeople to the press lie. >> and the president.

>> and it all starts at the top. the fish rots, you know, from the head down and it's his culture of lying going back 30, 40 years where he would call the press up and lie and say that he was a p.r. guy to talk about how great he was with women. in small things and large things. >> these are the united states of america and this is not right. >> so general kelly can't do anything. you can bring back james baker, couldn't do anything if they're just going to keep lying every single day. >> with us veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, cold founder of axias. >> van high is here.

>> and julie pace is with us. >> she has a scorecard. and lies or not lies. >> i know it not morning and we're not supposed to be debbie downer but it is quite sad. >> it's more than said. there could be legal consequences attached to many of these lies. >> the white house has afourld that donald trump, the president, helped draft the initial and misleading response to the revelations of a meeting between a russian attorney general as hand. >> it was a lie. he said talking about divorces or avocado firms, something the

response attributed to donald trump jr. claimed the june 26 meeting was about adoption policy. of was, pris it will offered mig documentsoned informing to income nate opinion opinion. in the days after the forkt trump's reports pent on numerous show that the pes or else the president lied to him and then had jay go you it's chilling be

actually plm dismissed the new "washington post" report that he personally dictated the response as fake news and of no consequence. >> that was a lie. >> but then yesterday the without acknowledged the the president did take part, claiming that his foj of the stul story was, quote, limited. >> the statement that john fun the perez white $nrnlt there was no vol up, you was disgeist -- >> can you clarify the degree to which the president read it in. >> he didn't downdick tay, weigh

m will be proven to be a lie. because willie, sh has mum many courses that in fact, it was a president who dictated it, who was telling him to be more transparent and was going back and forth with don june. this is an incredible thing we found out during niquia's unfortunate evident sewed. he would treat things, mik's bleeding all over her face. oh, she's looking lovely. then hon on the nash advise per. pr would would you wrrjs we're

going o get to the boy zouts? sfrosh -- you're lying. you're lying and you can oo brchl and glen says i don't think anyone just wanders into the oval office says sarah. >> that was a very bad imfact tear were. >> i vietnamesed people just wandering in. like they lie about things it and i'd say, jack, you haven't had have a cookie before dinner. and like chocolate from big, the

russian investigation. right sfrrnlt he's acknowledging he did help create the memo. >> it proves those people are lying. >> the boy scouts -- to what end? why rye about that? what do you get on that other than the fact that someone challenged whether you were well received and shourd with praise, when the answer wasn't uniform praise -- >> he said mixed. donald trump freaked out because a reporter from "the wall street journal" said it wasn't missed. >> i've heard mixed. >> and they're getting caught up in donald trump's web. there's no. >> the russia story is it much

liger and morically kated, why the i it leads to thing. why would they lie about russia from tay. out the campaign. we only talked we want americans to vote for us. we never and time given they're talking to rg fwrrk i don't know why they lie. are it etrying to cover almost. >> rant prng a they think it the

lies that are going o get him. that there as downpr fwrrnl moup, if it looks like you're u prn jared curb another gets offiy pop and even you go back to they're sitting on the airplane, drafting that note. four people out central kas can i am it's inconceivable you forget that and it cannot cop p up. >> can i stop you for one second? >> yes. >> anybody with any character that knew chapped.

because people are trying to p brp -- if my career son the line, my reputation is son the line and the press of the unputs out success pb. i think every one of us at this time, if you're smart, you immediately say if you put that out tomorrow and you put that in the "north carolina times" tomorrow, i've got to go it the remine. i that is what you do! >> agreed. but you know why they don't. we all talk to the same people and they ba they feel like if this krp -- jared as you lawyers

were telling him we have to get this out. it's part of the process. donald trump knew that jared kushner was -- pressure number. who else was on that plane when donald trump was drafting light? it was him, his son, jared. hope. was. >> spicer there in. >> no, i don't think so. >> they've not been guardrails, though. that's part of the problem. when thended the presser yesterday, she was asked if donald trump believes there's.

one rhett roothen think that thaticchallenge is the they can be control as month as rg, if sflrchl whenever she gets pushed on something where you can tell she as if she's being victimized by media that is to ask

questions and yet her yob is to ainge and yes she makes it like, well, you're attacking me. i don't could you say something so ridiculous? it becomes on what policeman are we on? >> i think it's really difficult for anybody to speak for this president. zim possible. >> some and it can be pi the wbs in for root hoar within wrn will right now is the atergss ras on the very basic function of our job, which is hold the administration ask theable. they say, hey, there's held they

those fan and to say that we're doing that for any pli cat be froshl at $ mission no. actual will you has plt dal fwrnks clrp it nfrm. >> like, for instance, the valerie plane investigation. prosecutors, when they see lying publicly, even if it tu the press, pb bloo go if a prosecutor find out that subjects an very long speaking to one another, ittan a go up

and they immediately become very suspicious that there is keching going on and that is basically obstruction of justice, if they're fanning a stort, geing their story straight. those conferrings aren't prej id nm g-20 is going to be interviewed with the security council zbrb who i was on the plane and find out who is going to involved in the discussions. all the walls of a force one everybody involved in th

thatfederal budget snurnl specific and then donald trump actually using his position as president of the united states, where he went to the side do plane that he drafted on air loon flofrm. >> g-0 summit and rushing off and fnk on, health insurance are

trn owe fay to me -- >> it's a pretty simple landscape that we're looking at. in every instance, whether it's russia, whether it's the drafting of the statement on the plane, whatever it, is the source of conflict with the truth is the president of the united states. and that lead to an unbelievable burden on. like -- >> kasey: it makes it impossible to deal with a cliend, you're unthe with the mess afternoon it clay flarjs the burden everybody has. but let strip this down and make it simple. independent sit in our po

twrurchl because oaf want be naifblt the first time sbrn prp he's got to resign. he's got to go out and haute front etprp believe that donald trump is going to be president forever. your reputation is what stays with you. and when you're dead and buried in the ground, do you want to be remembered as donald trump's big man, the person that allow donald trump to lie? is that what you want written in your obituary. >> that would be at beast. things could get ugly. >> in your point, shes as well

as everybody what the truth is peeic him. and like what that prng and look what it done for fom a guy we you a knew d.c., was it worth it to sean spicer to lie for six opinions it pb sporks the thing

that should scare the hell out of president. . from/s from/slnepull at open day, you a. ? they're all going o have to get lawyered up. >> i think thats brill as point. no wb's go toe fend them with it it prp the guy dishud been frshlg yard wilet's talk about e

controversy on sipt. f how far is the president going to i lou prn we have jeff blake ofs are ysh r. prchb kp frch is anything? das pb after the prsh froo frfrmt spch who actually will have save with what happened to bob mule.

ownery oerns manning other prerng pee ten fof fochl sfchl see how much distance barch floufrm ecan kbrp zprerchlts frerchl his credibility on floot. republicans like grechl o join in a level frerj when it was

happening, there about be montana, they started saying nobody firm foup nichlt. >> adrian: it ponl pep it was a win-win-win. >> and blake will find that, by the way, in arizona. >> blake will find that but not not get carried away. the people stand up against the president right now -- most republicans don't like him but they don't say a barn thing because the base still likes donald trump. and i think it at some point break if he pibs.

>> we're about to have big debate on fax form row for, right? how he's all over the news aing we sutdpshl i don't know how you believe nefrmt you if he what's in, in. >> within hours and nrngt joe begunford, him ffrm and sass we going to leave it the way it is. >> one of the nas and fakest

news story of the year. just ahead, we're going to talk about the exploitation of the death of seth rich. >> and reports are coming out that the president may have had a part in feeding that to fox news. >> this is getting bad. >> also with us this morning, former new york city mayor mike bloomberg. we're going to ask the billionaire if he will give us some of his money. also senator rob mortgageman. >> and senate democrat claire mccaskill who said there's a lot of bipartisan talk taking place on the hill these days. and you guys now the group hime? they like joe's. they did a review. >> oh, my gosh. heim. >> the kid love me.

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a lawsuit filed in federal court claims a fox news report about a slain dnc staffer, seth rich, was reviewed prior to publication by president trump and was altered at the white house's request. the lawsuit filed by private investigator rod wheeler, who was initially hired on behalf of the rich family, says his quotes in may 16th fox.com news story were fabricated by reporter malia zimmermann. the quotes in question implied that rich was killed for leaking internal dnc e-mails to wikileaks. wheeler kams he complained to a

the suit also alleges it was an attempt to avert attention away from the ongoing russian. according to the suit, zimmerman, ba it will can i fox news said in a statement the accusation that fox news published to help detract from the russia collusion, u is completely erroneous. the disprks. wheeler also claim in the suit, he and mat and provided him with a copy of his investigative notes. >> but sean spicer said that was

a lie, that he never met with anybody, correct? >> that's correct. >> and he asked for regular updates on the story. back in may spicer denied knowledge. >> he didn't know the story. watch this. it's clear. he's a good guy. >> i'm not aware of -- i generally i don't get updates on former dnc staffers. i'm not aware of that. >> threw go. he's going the stutter that the meeting did take place. hold on a second. no. because we yo -- >> i don't, i'm not aware of -- i generally i don't get updates

on former dnc staffers i brsh perhaps a note to sara okay comes back. bible talks about your words being on chat, at least they'll ib on cable news. >> the white house insisted yesterday they had no involvement in the story. >> of course, of course. here we go. >> the president had no knowledge of this story and it's completely untrue of the white house involvement in the store on opinion retreat you about 14 times a day.

didn't you say yesterday i give the story four days? >> yeah, i probably overestimated it. >> got to know by this afternoon that was a lie. >>. >> horrible. this is all about using a person's body to deflect from -- >> it's depraved. this let's clear this up for everybody that i talked about, a murdered month than to try to taub and it publed up from the most ris reputable corners of the internet and has back a popper point. whatever you can rahal inging a

there is nothing that justifies this storys are for the president to be and tam genitally implicated, it's time p pow. >> this is so horrible. >> his parents have to see that each and every day. he was murdered in a botched murder. it turns out it was totally wrong. for spicer to have that conversation with him. in the story there's a lot of "they think," thou its how opini opinion. >> the level of cruelty in this

story is exedded only by the level of malice in pushing it and forwarding it. >> that tells you everything you need to know about the people -- >> let's get it to alex jones. znd an and not just in the being pushed as the family begged and pleaded,s me stop leaking the story. when it came,000 that and it what's so sick about this member, right? i pell you go a, a strong ma judge zwrurnl you're seeing show up everywhere. you're seaing republican blee blurredering is a good guy.

? what blowing airplanes with civilians and murder willing jun can be and a dal ski said no to any mi are in it's not ul up to you don't. >> first of all i'm thinking why would the president have o redue a murder of a guy at d.c. it have nuchg this fox news reporter and ask brrk getting involved just to serve prb.

>> we did have cope nafrm what mr. wheeler has been saying, fact that this conspiracy theory has about, from where the prn. he taken. in about knowing about the story, they lied about peting, if that this nrnlt you lie when you have something else o hide. and just like russian story, mom's coming. >> i remain pamably, yimt really

does sort of kind of bow si sighsnim i get fired or humiliated and push out temperatures. sferchlt they commit their career geek kpoom we'll be back.

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collapse and the robot in the same song. >> hand collapse, robot, robot, robot. >> who is that? >> that was joe scarborough. >> stop it. >> i hope every one of his songs has a robot dance. >> those "hae"heys" were great. hey, hey, hey, hey. >> that's hime. you might want to look them up. >> i feel exponentially hipper. >> they're good! >> you should go watch their snl performance. >> you're hime shaming. >> mystified is officially good. >> there you go. there you go. >> so cool. >> no, no, no. >> watch some of the videos. the kids, you'll be hip with the kids. >> my daughters --

>> they're out of the valley. three sisters, they played with their parents growing up. they're extraordinarily talented. >> insanely talented. i put them with vampire pure ta. >> they play base, lead guitar. their parents were musicians and they've been playing since little kids. >> they all started as drummers. >> so their parents started them as drummers to know rhythm better and they're all really great, talented mu ssicians. >> and they have a new album out. >> jim, you can get on board now. >> stop it. stop it. >> they do have a special vinyl

release for their new album. >> you knew that. >> course you did. >> still ahead -- still ahead, an exclusive interview with goldman sachs ceo mark blankfein. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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you know it's bad when the interns turn. >> well, even the interns are leaking! >> you know it's bad. >> you think that's the one place. >> they're told not to but still they do. >> jared kushner's comments to a group of congressional interns on monday have been leaked to "wired" magazine. >> that's a bad sign.

>> in spite of, and this might have been the problem, explicit warnings against leaking. >> hold on, they warned not to leak and voice memo. >> "wired" magazine reports one of the sections drawing attention trying to broker middle east peace. kushner talks about the process he goes through to determine why historically it hasn't been more successful, noting not a whole lot has been accomplished for decades, and that it's emotionally charged. >> you know everyone finds an issue, that you have to understand what they did then, and you have to understand that they did this, but how does that help us get peace? we don't want a history lesson. we've read enough books. let's focus on how you come up with solutions. >> i got to stop there. brokering middle east peace in '79, he knew history, he understood sadat's history,

egypt's history, he understood what they were all dealing with at home, and the thousands of years that made this a "emotional issue." it's remarkable. this has been their attitude from day one, which is don't tell us about history. really, would you get contempt when you tried to tell them about history. they believed history started on january 20th, 2017. >> which is funny. that was actually a pretty significant criticism of the obama administration, the early obama administration from conservatives, there was so much hubris and so much affect and belief in their own ability to change the forces of history that it was arrogance. >> especially with iran from the very beginning. we don't care about the past. we'll talk to iran unilaterally. >> it's ironic, because the obama administration reliance on iran is creating an opening for israel that has nothing to do with the palestinian side. israel has warmer relations with the sunni kingdoms and the sunni

states. >> right. >> that has everything to do with balancing against iran that could allow natural attrition to take effect here but they're intervening in a process they don't understand and for reasons i can't quite fathom. >> i don't -- mike barnical you can't wander into the middle east without understanding the 67 boundaries, without understanding 1948 and what led to it and what happened before 1948, without understanding all the complications. so you can sit down and say, i understand 67, i understand what happened in 2000 in the negotiations, with the oslo courts, i understand but we're going to work around that and seriously, this is all of their attitudes inside the white house. we don't need to know history. >> jared doesn't have time to study history because the middle east peace process is a part-time job for him. he's reorganizing the government. he's doing the space program. he's the president's principal adviser. so this is a part-time job the

peace process. >> right. >> you just have got to know history. understand it forwards and backwards to get anywhere in the middle east. >> i'm glad he's telling the next generation to -- >> not worry about history. two stories in the last two days, accuse the president of taking active measures to lower the heat on the russia story, but the investigation is only getting bigger. plus, eric trump laments republicans aren't working with his dad but we have the laundry list of reasons explaining why that may be the case. and we'll talk to senators claire mccaskill and rob portman. "morning joe" is coming right back. to move 2017 clearance event, you can do endless online research. or, you can take advantage of our best offer ever on an xt5. don't wait. our 2017 models will be moving fast. you can drive a car... or you can drive a cadillac. come in now before the end of

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that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ welcome back. it's okay, don't worry. >> okay, he just walked off the set. >> got a little upset, he needs to go -- >> he didn't get upset. >> it's your language offended him right there. >> me? >> wednesday, august 2nd. can you believe it's august, guys? >> no. it's depressing. >> hold on a second. >> what happened to the summer? >> here come sinatra. >> wow. >> with us msnbc -- >> hey, barnical everybody. >> jim van dye. >> legendary. >> old guy, doesn't know heim. >> i do now. >> washington bureau for the

associated press, julie pace. >> julie. we have to do rattner. he's a mets fan. >> joining the conversation political reporter for "the washington post" robert costa. >> costa. >> and kelsey snell who covers congress for "the washington post." it's very good to have you both on board. >> noah is back or sinatra we call him because he leaves and walks back on. >> i'm sorry the bathroom is down on 60th. i had no idea. >> it's on 60th. >> there's some construction. >> quite a walk. why do you think there's garbage cans under here? as i move forward, noah, a remarkable story about the secretary of state rex tillerson actually rejecting $80 million in money from congress to counter isis propaganda and russian propaganda, and you talk

to most foreign policy experts, they will tell you that isis' most potent tool is propaganda, and russia's most potent tool right now is propaganda against western democracies. i don't think i've ever heard of a secretary of state rejecting this money. why did they reject it? >> or any department rejecting $80 million appropriated to it by congress. it might expire by the way in two months. >> their explanation for rejecting it is? >> it might anger moscow to counter their propaganda. it's a genuine national security threat and also isis which recruits lone wolf attackers as a result of its propaganda, it's a dereliction of responsibility and notion they're just letting it sit here as some sort of a process, sort of strikes me as bizarre. >> what in the world is going on? >> julie, they actually admitted it. the spokesperson for -- >> what am i missing here? >> -- rex tillerson admitted it. rex tillerson coming under more and more fire, and furrowed

eyebrows let's say, from the foreign community. this is inexplicable that he says no, no, no, we don't need the money to counteract isis. >> it's completely bizarre this is the explanation for turning down the money. isis thrives on propaganda. it's not as though they have a huge swathe of territory really anymore. they are thriving on online videos, they're thriving on inspiring people in europe and in the united states. tillerson just continues to kind of flounder at the state department. he was out there yesterday talking to reporters in his first full briefing, and it's pretty amazing when you think about what's happened to america's voice on foreign policy around the world, when you have a president who isn't particularly fluent on these issues, isn't spending a lot of time talking about them, that's a role that ends up usually being then filled by a secretary of state, but tillerson has taken this complete opposite approach, where he is largely underground, not having a lot of

outward-facing appearances and when he does talk, when he does give explanations for some of these decisions, they really are eyebrow raising, to say the least. >> joe, why do you figure the slow but sure deconstruction of the state department along with a nearly invisible secretary of state is not a bigger story? >> i don't know why. i don't know why especially because the stories that we are going to be talking about, these stories we're going to be talking about -- >> north korea. >> -- in the next month or two is going to be north korea and there is a likelihood we're going to look back on these "mooch" stories the same way we looked back on gary condit stories before 9/11, because north korea right now is the story. they're, about one of five things can happen and they're all bad. you can have an invasion from the north to the south, a lot of people worry about that. you can have a u.s. military strike on the north. that's significant.

you of course -- i mean, we can go, willy, really all around, all the different areas that could happen on north korea, and yet we don't have anybody under rex tillerson that can effectively work these issues at the desk. we don't have diplomats out there. donald trump fired everybody that was out there, and they're not refilling it. this is a huge, huge story for russia, you know, russia bringing 100,000 troops to the edge of nato coming up, north korea, you can just go down the list, and here once again, russia in inplexably comes in as a story that no one can understand because he said no, we don't want to anger russia, despite the fact russia has openly been trying to undermine western democracies with fake

news and with propaganda. >> and further confusing us on this story, the one you're talking about in "politico" the refusing of the $80 million, this is an administration that says it's obsessed with fake news, that it accuses everyone else of participating in fake news. that $80 million we're talking about is earmarked for countering actual fake news coming out of russia for countering propaganda coming out of russia and isis. and on your paint, lindsey graham on the "today" show raising the prospect of a shooting war with north korea, basically saying we've been crossing our fingers hoping the chinese will do something for how many years and they're not doing anything. he said if there's a war and there may be one, he said a lot of people are going to die on the korean peninsula. he said that on tv yesterday. >> we talk to white house officials over the last week and asked them what are you most worried about? so far hasn't been an economic crisis, hasn't been a foreign crisis they've had to deal with. all four of the things they mentioned require state department intervention, if they

happen, north korea, china, a cyber attack, or a more conventional terrorist attack. all four of those things, and people might be saying who cares about the state department. they've not staffed anybody around him, so there's not really any way for us to communica communicate. >> rex tillerson is a rookie. he has no idea what he's doing at the state department. and if i didn't know any better, that's intentional. because i can tell you, during the transition, donald trump's idea was, let's get somebody weak at the state department, and we'll have jared kushner doing all the deals. >> right. >> this is intentional. they are undercutting this man intentionally and they get somebody who doesn't know what he's doing in there and let me say it again. he doesn't know what he's doing. >> aren't you surprised by the weakness? tillerson ran a massive international company. he was brought in and people said whoa, this is one of the most impressive cabinet picks and you talk to people, probably one of the bigger surprises in

terms of being a disappointment and they fault his chief of staff, they fault his staff but ultimately -- >> they haven't given him the -- >> they also though didn't give him elliott abrams. he wanted elliott abrams. >> that's right. >> how would history have changed if they put somebody in at number two whether you like his politics or not? >> a guide. >> who knows how the state department runs. >> there's very few undersecretaries. i was in kiev in february, it was early february and they're saying we're running on autopilot on the obama administration's foreign policy because we get no guidance from the state department and no undersecretaries, no diplomatic staff and political appointees particularly in hot spots like the korean peninsula. they are operating under the philosophy we can move on ine inertia and crises are coming up fast. >> bob costa, the great irony going back to what noah said, this was our complaint, not you and me, but this was what conservatives complained about, with barack obama, that they

didn't have a world view, that they ran our foreign policy, other than iran and cuba, they ran our foreign policy on autopilot, that there was inertia. it was like don't do dumb stuff, was the obama doctrine, and now the trump doctrine is the same. they're just doubling down on it. don't do anything, and don't hire anybody. >> well, the trump doctrine is different than the doctrine most republicans follow, especially on capitol hill, and you see what the move on russian sanctions in the republican congress, they're trying to box in this white house to say if you're going to have a doctrine that's reimagining u.s./russia relations we're not going to go along with it. we want to shape policy in a more hawkish direction, a traditional republican direction, and you see this administration continuing to react to that. they're trying to do their own

thing. jonathan swann, jim's colleague at axios is reporting how the administration is thinking about going after china in a more aggressive way on trade, of maybe shaping the relationship over there with regard to north korea, and you're also looking right now at general kelly trying to form a bond with tillerson. my sources in the west wing say tillerson, general mattis at the defense department, and general kelly have been kind of the generational peers in this cabinet, and they think this is the way to maybe bring tillerson back to the center of the discussions, to not make him feel so isolated because he has that relationship with kelly. >> andrea mitchell, let's bring you in here. i'm glad while we're talking about how rex tillerson is raising too many eyebrows in washington, around the world, i'm glad jim or bob costa brought up his alliance with general mattis, who has embraced rex tillerson and insists there is never any separation between the two, but if that's the case,

and if jim mattis is handling the pentagon as well as he is, why aren't we seeing more of that at the state department? is it intentional on the trump administration's part to strangle the state department? >> well, there's certainly a problem here because tillerson did embrace the budget cuts, 30%. that is an enormous budget cut, and i think he was trying to prove his bona fides with a president he did not know or have a relationship with and prove not being a general that he could be part of the team and bring a management study to the table and take sort of the business approach to the state department. the problem there was that, to say that you're freezing all jobs, and you're doing a management study and sometime in the fall you're going to have those results, and then by spring start nominating people for the critical job, assistant secretaries of state they are the brain power, the people who know the regions who speak to the ambassadors on a daily or

frequently often during the day, more than once a day, and so now you only have two holdover obama appointees out of 24 assistant secretaries. you have only one with a holdover also from the obama administration, but a career person, as one of the six undersecretaries. he's basically home alone. so he is really -- he really hurt himself, and he was saying yesterday to us at that briefing which we were grateful for is, is the first time in the briefing room, the diplomats i talk to all the time, three times a week i meet with them, they are saying help us, help us fix this problem. that's a very select group. that's not what i'm hearing and not what all the reporting is. there's really been a mass exodus and you're losing a generation of diplomats. >> that is, i've heard that on so many levels, andrea. i've also heard from the beginning, he has not been given who he wants by his -- >> exactly. >> he's tried very hard to get

people to help him acclimate and run the state department so historically, any precedent for this? is there any administration that has a state department this empty at this time six months in? >> no. no, it's unprecedented. there are vacancies also at the pentagon where mattis pushed back against political appointees. in in this case from the beginning elliott abrams was his choice to be deputy secretary and that was overruled and ever since it's been very difficult, a lot of leaks coming out of the white house, undercutting him saying he's failed and that has been deeply hurtful. i think he really feels that the addition of kelly, whom he was very close to, worked very hard on in mexico, and to work on latin american problems, the wall and all the rest and try to moderate the president's rhetoric regarding mexico, i think he thinks that kelly, from all reports, will be such an important ally that the grownups are now in charge in the white house, at least for now, but it's been very difficult.

there have been rumors he wanted to quit. i think he's going to try to stick it out the best can he, but this has been an uncomfortable fit. >> sometimes you have to walk away. andrea mitchell thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we want to note that yesterday her 39th anniversary here at nbc news. >> wow. it's unbelievable. >> a child reporter. >> she came as a child at the age of -- >> stroller. >> -- 2. her parents brought her to nbc. >> that's amazing, andrea. >> still gets it done. >> congratulations, andrea. we greatly appreciate it. >> continuing on, go ahead, willy. >> i think what andrea is talking about, we're all talking about the state department is sort of to the point you made, joe, is that when you come in on january the 20th and history begins with you and you try to remake an entire government, that's a tough slog. >> i'm not sure that's their goal. >> they're saying we're not going to rely on career state department staffers, we're not going to rely on the way things

that are done in the state department and the white house. we're seeing that across the government. >> look at legislative result. kelsey, what have we got, anything on the horizon? >> historic? >> i'm sure you have a very long list. >> historic. >> you know, i think that what we might see is we might see congress leave, well the senate leave a week earlier than they said they were going to. we saw them say they're going to stick around two weeks they needed to get all this done, but they've spent the past couple of days just passing things by unanimous consent and trying to get out of town. they have nothing really to do. the house when they come back is preparing to do something on the debt limit, they have to get that done by the end of september. they have to pass a spending bill by the end of september and reauthorize faa money. they've got a bunch they need to do in september but they're just not here, and they, you know, they're talking a lot about tax reform. there's this conversation about the big six meetings that's kevin brady the ways and means chairman, paul ryan, the speaker of the house, and mitch

mcconnell, and orrin hatch and two people coming over from the white house, the treasury secretary and the national economic adviser. they're all talking about tax reform. they say they're going to get something out there by labor day but tax reform is a lot harder than i think people are giving it credit for. there's a reason it hasn't happened since 1986. it's really hard. >> yes. >> and it's not simple to say we're going to cut all of your taxes and we're going to cut rates, that's great but we're going to cut your mortgage interest deduction, that's a little bit harder. >> so kelsey, donald trump's been trolling republican senators telling mitch mcconnell how to do his job -- that's not smart, and i'm wondering whether the senate deciding to get things done and leave early may be mitch mcconnell saying you know what? i've had enough. we can't deal with this guy. best thing we can do is get our senators back into their states and let them hold town hall meetings and meet their constituents. >> i think it's a little bit of that and a little bit that congress likes taking august

off. they like to go home and reset and we call it jet fumes, they get really, really powerful when senators want to get out of town, and some of them want to go on kodells, things that advance the legislative agenda outside of washington and being harangued by the president not getting health care done is not something they want to keep doing. >> "the washington post" kelsey snell thank you so much. julie pace thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe" eric trump says his dad is carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders and that republicans need to "get in line." we'll ask two republicans, senator rob portman, and congressman charlie dent what they think about that. you're watching "morning joe. >> i'm going to 60th street. ♪ ditching the cover-up for good? that's cool. showing off my arms? that's cool. being comfortable without a shirt? that's cool. getting the body you want without surgery,

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or a little internet machine? [ phone ringing ] hi mom. it makes you wonder... shouldn't we get our phones and internet from the same company? that's why xfinity mobile comes with your internet. you get up to 5 lines of talk and text at no extra cost. [ laughing ] so all you pay for is data. see how much you can save. choose by the gig or unlimited. call or go to xfinitymobile.com introducing xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. my father said it. i mean he said it a couple weeks ago in a tweet. he said "am i going to have to carry this whole weight on my shoulder?" when are some of the people in

my own party going to start protecting me? i feel as well and i'm an outsider looking in on the white house. i'm running our company, but i mean, i want somebody to start fighting for him. he's the best fighter in the world. he will do a better job fighting for himself than all of them will do fighting for him, but i mean how much weight does he have to carry by himself? >> i can't. okay. all right, alex. president trump's son, eric, taking aim at republican lawmakers criticizing them for not fighting hard enough to advance his father's agenda, and he seems to be following in his father's footsteps. president trump has openly and repeatedly attacked members of his own party saying they're at risk of looking like quitters and fools over health care. he hammered alaskan senator lisa murkowski for voting against the gop plan, and senator dean heller, who was thinking about it. >> you didn't go out there.

this was the one we were worried about. you weren't there, but you're going to be. you're gonna be. look, he wants to remain a senator, doesn't he? >> ha, ha, ha. trump also took aim at republicans at large for not "protecting their president." he attacked his administration's own attorney general as beleaguered and publicly toyed with secretary tom price's future at health and human services. >> by the way you're going to get the votes? >> i hope so. >> he better get them. he better get them, oh, he better it shall -- otherwise i'll say "tom, you're fired." i'll get somebody. >> ha, ha, ha. joining us now from bethlehem, pennsylvania, republican congressman charlie dent. very good to have you on the show, congressman. >> great to be with you. >> does eric trump have a point? do more people need to have his dad's back? are they failing him? republicans? >> well i have to disagree with

eric, what he just said there. lot of us are working with this administration very constructively, working with them on the debt limit, working with them on budge eight greements. i work closely with the va, i oversee their funding. we're working with secretary mattis on the transgendered issue only to have that whole effort undermined by a presidential tweet that really contradicted what the secretary of defense had been doing, so we are working with the administration but sometimes the administration needs to get out of its own way. >> congressman, it's willie geist. good to see you this morning. part of at peel for many voters of donald trump as president he was this ultimate deal maker, he branded himself that way and he's going to get to washington and this is what he does. he makes deals so he'll do it with congress. what has been the experience of you and your colleagues in that regard? is he working the phones in terms of getting, i know you're not in the senate but in terms of getting the house bill through on health care? was that the guy that you saw firsthand, the guy that was portrayed during the campaign, the guy we've seen on "the apprentice" the guy who calls

himself the master of "the art of the deal"? >> i think the president seems to want to deal on health care, any deal, he wants something on his desk, but many of us do want to present a deal not only to him, but to our leadership, 43 of us in the last few days put forward a bipartisan plan on health care that would stabilize the individual insurance market, that would provide for cost-sharing reduction payments and stabilization, and repeal of the vice tax, employer mandate. we'd love to engage in that kind of a deal so to speak either with our leadership or with the president, so i look forward to engaging on that. >> has he been that kind of president for you, congressman, in terms of working the phones and being a deal maker? >> well based on health care, i always had the sense that the administration and the president, they had outsourced the health care issue to congress, and let congress kind of handle this, and at least the president seemed to be less engaged with any specific details. that was my experience on that issue. >> bob costa? >> congressman dent, bob costa

here. when it comes to the debt limit, who's going to actually determine what comes out of the house? is it going to be your group, the moderates, the tuesday group pushing for a clean debt limit extension or whether it be the freedom caucus and they'll probably want some cuts or some other part of the deal? >> well, bob, good to see you. i believe procedural consideration should be given to those members in the tuesday group, the moderates, so to speak. we are the ones who are going to put the votes up. i'd like to determine how we vote on this bill, specifically we need a bipartisan, bicameral budge eight agreement to provide for some budgetary stability and we need a debt limit to provide market stability. we should put the two together. we should negotiate this ping. we should negotiate it before october 1st and get it done. that would be the best thing to do to provide budgetary and market stability and we'll put the votes up for it. >> congressman, this is mike barnical. you referenced the 43 members

you caucused together for health care legislation. sounds like a aaa for legislation. roadside your car broke down but the 43 members, can you give me a breakdown by party of the 43 members? how many democrats are in this? >> yes, this is the problem-solvers caucus. it's 43 members, it's roughly evenly split between republicans and democrats who are supporting this proposal. i think we have about 50 members right now, so we had a strong consensus among the group to do something constructive on health care that we think is the starting point for a discussion. so it's an incremental reform. i believe this is the way we should have always moved, do something durable, sustainable. this doesn't solve every problem but it provides some stability and we as republicans can walk away with some wins and so can the democrats. >> that's a new story right there, half and half, democrats and republicans working together. wow, stop the presses. >> yes. >> we can only hope. congressman charlie dent, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. robert costa, thank you as well. coming up, mike barnical takes

us back to john kelly's old neighborhood. one man told him "i remember general kelly very well as a little guy, kind of a shy kid." given the job he just got i hope to goddess' over being shy. we'll talk about that all next on "morning joe." crohn's disease. you're more than just a bathroom disease. you're a life of unpredictable symptoms. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization.

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mike barnical writing in "the daily beast" about the boston neighborhood that made john kelly. "their neighborhood was 1950s post-war era, largely irish and catholic, nearly an apartment in almost every two-family home touched by the impact of world war ii and korea. there were more veterans on the block than hydrants. this was john kelly's world then and today, devotion to the chain of command, to family, to country, to loyalty, honor, courage, to history to the memory of those who sacrificed all. today general kelly works for a commander in chief who could not be more unlike his chief of staff. where kelly symbolizes honor and honesty, trump symbolizes

expediency and duplicity. loyalty is a stranger to this president. it is in kelly's blood and on the long days when he wonders why he took the job he will no doubt think of how he was raised in brighton with his father john at the kitchen table and his mother, joan, making breakfast and think of the son he often visits who is quite close to the white house, just across memorial bridge in section 80, grave 9480 at arlington, first lieutenant robert michael kelly, united states marine corps, who died in afghanistan on november 9th, 2010. he was 29 years old. robert's father, marine corps general john kelly, still serves every day." mike, talk more about this guy and the strange marriage between donald trump who works on impulse, who works on insult and john kelly, who has lived his professional life inside a chain of command with honor and duty. >> well, joe alluded to part of the problem earlier when we were

talking about the president's difficulty with the truth, and if if he continues to have difficulty with the truth, general kelly, who symbolizes the truth, and honor and integrity, he has all of his life especially during 40 years in the marine corps, he will stand up to the president. it should -- it's important to note who this guy is, general kelly, and anecdotally, this offers up some definition of who he is, and who his family is and what his family represents. when he received the call finally accepting the office of chief of staff, the position of chief of staff to the president of the united states, he was in california. he was visiting his oldest son, marine corps major john kelly, who was about to be deployed. he's lost one son to war. he has another son in the service of the country. he is in the service of the country, and all of us, no matter what we think of donald trump, we have to root for john

kelly, because rooting for john kelly is rooting for the country. >> yes. absolutely. >> is he the kind of guy, mike, who, when donald trump makes him look bad for the first time, or when donald trump tells him something that isn't true, for the first time, he will walk away from it to protect his own digni dignity, protect his own integrity or will he be in there pushing back and fighting on behalf of the country? >> i think the latter. i think he stays and pushes back, because this isn't about his dignity or his reputation. this is about i this i in general kelly's mind, this is about the united states of america. >> you know, mike, to explain to people, though, how general kelly may be more patient than they would expect, how he might take a snub here or deal with abhorrent behavior in other ways and still stay in his job. it does help to know he sees this as service to the country

first of all and secondly, as we know, the idea that all generals and lieutenant colonels and other members of the military that john kelly served under, as he moved up the general, would not be accurate, that you have to put up many times in the military with incompetent supervisors and you've got to figure out a way to get through that and to move to the other side of it, and so the military does -- the discipline is not just a physical discipline. it is also a discipline to understand that when you are in the chain of command, you're not going to like everything that you are told to do, or ordered to do, and sometimes it means even taking men and women into combat when you don't think that's in their best interests. >> well, general mcmaster wrote

a terrific book "dereliction of duty" about exactly that, joe, about how sometimes junior officers under the command staff, they know the decisions are wrong, and are going to be harmful, and in the course of the vietnam war not enough junior officers stood up to the command staff. general kelly, because of his life, because of his four decades in the marine corps, he knows he has a responsibility for everything that's under him. >> right. >> it's his responsibility. he's not going to say, joe, that was your responsibility. >> right. >> you're under me. eight my responsibility to make sure you do your job. so the way the job is going to go for him we'll find out but i think in the end he stands up to the president of the united states. >> and the only way this works, mika, is again, everybody reports to general kelly. >> right. >> everybody. sons, daughters, son-in-laws, everybody, friends, acquaintances, they all have to go through general kelly, if you want the white house to work.

>> right. no one works alongside him. >> no, ivanka trump does not work alongside him and she's not proud to be working alongside him. something we all said yesterday, i got to say this. it's very interesting. we all said this yesterday, i didn't but i was saying it, you know, like up in boston, after seeing the gang going yeah, i was agreeing with everybody and i thought that especially i thought that steve schmidt gave a very impassioned plea as to why daughters don't work alongside generals that have given their entire life in service to this country, just because they're daughters. i thought it was interesting. you got attacked yesterday and it was like in the press, it was like it was very sexist. it was like a catfight. >> well, right. >> because you said it, but when the men said it, that didn't rate a mention, but you state something that we all say about white house policy. >> actually i was talking about

jared and ivanka. >> yes. they turned it into a catfight. i didn't see anybody yesterday thinking it was appropriate ivanka trump tweeted -- i like ivanka, by the way. always have. we met in new york, we've known her for years and always said nothing but great things about her and i said before they got into the white house if you want to have something to judge donald trump positively by, look at his kids. i've said it a billion times. so this is not personal against ivanka trump. i will tell you, this text is repugnant, put the tweet up. it's just, it is, it's repulsive, and it goes against, it illustrates exactly what has hurt this white house over the last six months, and it explains why general kelly needs to report to his boss, donald trump, and everybody else needs to report to general kelly. "looking forward to serving

alo alongside john kelly as we work for the --" no. willie, why? >> why would they think anything other than what she wrote? she's been at the president's side since the beginning, her father. he made her and her husband, jared kushner feel like they are the right and left-hand of the president of the united states, even without a formal role in her case. i don't think that was a dig. i think that was just, that was her, the way she feels. i sit at the side of my father, who suspect president of the united states, and welcome aboard general kelly. >> and yet, we were saying a couple days before everybody else has said that everybody has to report to the chief of staff, if you want the white house to work, and jim, i would say -- >> never, ever, ever going to happen. >> it goes doubly for children, and i wonder, i just -- i can't even imagine ever saying i'm going to work alongside general kelly, da, da, da, da, da, da. with absolutely no qualifications. >> come on. it's never going to happen.

like we're all recidivists who -- >> the white house will fail. >> -- have this bizarre faith in his own way, eight working the phones late at night, talking to the kids. for all the stuff you dump on trump it was a strong pick. he should be applauded for putting somebody strong in there. he's not going to change. he's not going to change. he's still going to work the phones late at night and still going to talk to the kids. >> that's fine to work with the kids. it's fine to talk to the kids of course. it's fine to work the phones late at night. >> if they are at the white house they report -- >> it's not fine to have a structure where you let family members wander around your chief of staff and guide policy. it's one thing when you go home and somebody goes, you know what you did today was really stupid, you should consider apologizing. that's happened to me throughout my lifetime. i go back the next day, i said something really stupid yesterday and i apologize. that's one thing. it's quite another to be telling the world, i am going to work alongside the chief of staff. no, you're not.

not if this white house is to function. not if you care about what's in donald trump's best interests. not if you care about what's in this country's best interests. you will not in the office work alongside the chief of staff, or you will cause your father to fail. it's that simple, if you want donald trump to succeed, get out of the way, and you will let the chief of staff do the chief of staff's job. you report to the chief of staff, the chief of staff reports to his boss donald trump. and that's it. >> if you've been the trump whisperer or the moderating force, you've been terrible at it. i mean, it's been a failure for six months. >> there is no trump whisperer. >> so own it. mike's great column is posted in "the daily beast." check it out. coming up next experts say the president has been good for economic growth but that he might just might maybe overstating his role. we'll talk exclusively to the former new york city mayor, michael bloomberg, and goldman

sachs ceo lloyd blankfein. "morning joe" is back in a moment. what's critical thinking like? a basketball costs $14. what's team spirit worth? (cheers) what's it worth to talk to your mom? what's the value of a walk in the woods? the value of capital is to create, not just wealth, but things that matter.

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designed to save you money. there's a new concept taking whole when it comes to reinvesting in communities. rather than just donating money, one program is focusing on empowering small businesses, which in turn hire more people and continue the cycle. eight goldman sachs 10,000 small businesses program, and we should note that goldman sachs is a partial sponsor of our show this morning. joining us from mt. vernon marketplace in baltimore just outside a restaurant owned by one of the program's graduates we have ceo lloyd blankfein, former mayor of new york city michael bloomberg and the owner of scrub nail boutique, jasmine simms who is graduating from the xram toda program today. congratulations. >> thank you. >> lloyd, we've been fortunate enough to go to many of these

events with you and see -- >> love the program. >> -- the impact that this program is having. talk about what you're finding after doing this for several years, how is this program taking root in communities and really helping people start their own small businesses. >> well, thanks a lot, joe. we've been doing this in, for about seven years now. we're up to 14 cities, and we also have a national program that brings people together in classes where we are operating in communities that choose small dedicated programs, but where we've done this we've found entrepreneurs who are in business, have done kind of well, and need to break out to the next level, and that's kind of a sweet spot, where we can get real job growth and we can just take people who committed, proven, have the ambition, have the concept, and sort of get them to leverage themselves a

little bit more, provide them with capital, provide them with business education, that has components of negotiation, how to deal with, how to request financing, supply some financing in many cases, how to negotiate, deal with their employees, and most of all, give confidence to people who are pretty terrific to begin with, and as a result of this, employment takes off in these places. >> mayor bloomberg it's willie fwoo geist. good to see you. i know you're on the advisory board here. talk a little bit about the climate for small business. president trump touted in the last several days the stock market. he's touted low unemployment. what's it like for an entrepreneur like jasmine right now, trying to start a business in this country? >> well, all the job growth, willie, in the united states has been in small businesses for a while. people are moving from big companies to small companies. small companies have the advantage of typically local, typically where you can get some ownership in them. typically where you can bring

your skills to bear, without being overburdened and having to go retain, and what we need to do is to create more small businesses throughout the country to give people who are losing jobs in losing jobs and that are being phased out because of technology or industry or people moving, give them jobs where they are using the skills that they have. we can talk about big companies and getting more skills, but that's where automation will continue to reduce employment. it's the small businesses where personal service really makes a difference and where they can't afford a lot of big technology projects that are going to motor our economy along and give people the dignity of a job and the ability to take care of their families. >> so, jasmine, i want to hear your story, especially as it pertains to some of the challenges that you face in baltimore. mayor bloomberg, of course, has had a huge impact in baltimore with johns hopkins university. jasmine, though, trying to get a business going and moving in the

city of baltimore, how has the program helped you, but what are some of the challenges you still face? >> so i started my business with like little to no resources. so i struggled a lot just trying to figure it out on my own through trial and error. when i came across this program, i know it offered the structure and strategy that i needed to take my business to the next level. they're different centers and help you get started. you run into certain pitfalls and roadblocks, you need to know how to navigate those challenges. so this program really helped open my eyes to just a great group of instructors and professors who came from all over the place who really helped us zone in on what our opportunities were and how to navigate those and use the resources that we have and also the members of our cohorts, the resources from them as well. >> lloyd, we've been talking about small businesses here, but obviously there also is a lot of concern about what's happening

with the economy in general. you've got the president saying that this is the best economy that we've had in a very long time. i'm just wondering, what are you looking at not only the united states, but across the world as far as our standing and companies that aren't just contained inside the borders of the united states. what's the climate like? >> joe, it may not be the best economy we've had for a long time, but it's pretty good. if you were transported down here, if you were frozen in an iceberg for four years and you knew -- and you woke up, came out, thawed and you saw an economy that's at full employment, low energy prices, basically balance sheets have been cured, a lot of cash, again, low rates, you'd think -- and again, people may not like the job they have in every case, but they never do. we're here kind of in a full employment situation now. i'd say it's pretty good. i'd say the political

environment is very bad. and when you're dealing with the economy, it's not -- it's not just science, you're dealing also with sentiment so of course there's an interaction between the politics and the economy because at the end of the day economy requires confidence. and so it could be better. there's some frustration about the fact that it could be better, but really, joe, financial conditions and economic conditions are really not as bad as the politics would suggest. >> mike barnicle. >> mr. mayor, you just heard what lloyd said. the dow yesterday rockets through 22,000. everybody, front page stories about the dow jones and the stock market is great. why do you think there is or do you think there is such a lack of faith among middle income americans in the economy today. their immediate future is paycheck to paycheck, month to month, why that lack of faith given all those numbers that

lloyd just accurately pointed out? >> well, change is always difficult to deal with because it takes you into the unknown and it's much more comfortable to continue to do what you're doing. unfortunately, the world doesn't let you do that, you have to change. and i think what's happening is some industries are going away, some industries are coming back. what we need to do is to have more global trade because that creates jobs in america. unfortunately, some of the politicians try to convince the public the reverse, but it's just not true. we need to be able to export our products around the world. we need to be able to buy raw material its around the world, to build our products and retrain our people and start new businesses. so we need immigrants here to start new businesses, we need immigrants here to do some of the jobs that americans don't want to do and americans want jobs that pay more and require more training and that's great. but somebody has to fill in behind them. and so as lloyd said, the stock market says that the economy is reasonably good. there are some industries that

are suffering. if you take a look at retail, because of the shared economy, because of electronic sales like amazon, companies that let you not have to go to the local store, we have to realize that different jobs are going to be the jobs available and we can't just sit there and bemoan or try to stop the ocean, the tides from coming in. an i think it's too early to tell with this administration. they have only been in office for six months so let's see what happens down the road. but at the moment lloyd is right, the economy is not terrible, it could always be better. some people are suffering but a lot of people are benefitting. those in the middle of the country where a lot of the jobs are going away have to be given opportunities and that's what we should focus on, bringing new kinds of businesses there instead of trying to stop old businesses from declining because nobody will be able to do that. >> some of the stress -- the economy -- a good economy does two things, it generates well and it distributes it.

some might say there's more stress right now over the distribution than there is over the ability to generate, but i have to say at the end of the day, we want to make sure that whatever we do doesn't hurt the country's ability to generate well, even as the political sector debates how the wealth that's generated gets distributed. >> mika, if you look at the economy today compared to eight years ago, nine years ago, after 2008 -- >> right. >> -- it is incredible, double-digit inflation down into the 4s at the end of 2016. it's been a pretty good turn-around. >> so, jasmine, i want to hear what your goals are. where do you want to be a year from now in terms of your business? and also, can i be a member of your nail boutique? because i go to baltimore like three times a year. >> of course. so at my nail salon we have a membership program. our members pay a monthly fee and get unlimited manicure

services. you get a chip, you come in and we'll see you. a year from now we plan to have ten locations around baltimore city. we're expanding to have express versions of our full-service nail salon so our members can go anywhere in the city and redeem their benefits where it's most convenient for them. so we can be the gym of nail salons. >> how many people work for you, jasmine? >> four. >> and how many will you have a year from now? >> oh, probably about at least 30. >> i'm liking it. >> that is fantastic. >> that's pretty good. >> that's great. jasmine sims, congratulations graduating this program. >> my next trip to baltimore i'm coming with my daughter to get my nails done. >> we'll be waiting. i'll be looking for you. >> lloyd, willie and i being men of our time, we are populists, but we still are waiting for the offer to work at goldman sachs. we're not good with numbers, but, you know, we'll -- you know, we'll -- >> he's used to making good

business decisions, joe. lloyd blankfein, michael bloomberg, thank you very much. >> joe, you have too much hair to work at goldman sachs. >> okay, well, there you go. once again discriminated against. >> exactly, poor guy. all right, thank you, everybody. still ahead this morning, senator claire mccaskill, senator chris van hollen, senator rob portman all join the conversation. "morning joe" back in a moment. nothin g's wrong with the elevator. right. but you want to fix it. right. so who sent you? new guy. what new guy? watson. my analysis of sensor and maintenance data indicates elevator 3 will malfunction in 2 days. there you go. you still need a pass. to find smarter solutions. to offer more precise and less invasive treatment options than before. like advanced genomic testing and immunotherapy.

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enough said. reddi-wip. (flourish spray noise) share the joy. if the president was directly involved in creating that statement, it's not illegal to lie to the press, does it bother you? >> yeah, it bothers me a lot because, one, he put his son in jeopardy. now we have to wonder about what don junior's team will tell you about what he actually did. if he didn't know about the e-mail, the statement may have fooled you. if you know about the e-mail with don junior, then it's a misleading statement. >> so the president said he wasn't involved in drafting a letter defending his son. that is not true. >> also known as, that's a lie.

they lied. >> the president said he got a con congratulate lower call from the boy scouts. that isn't true either. >> the kids at home, you know i'm connected with the kids on the street, they say, hey, that's a lie. new lingo. >> the president told "the wall street journal" nobody on the campaign saw anybody from russia. that is not true. >> again, willie, the kids call that -- >> that would be a lie. >> and the lawsuit says the white house worked with fox news to concoct a damaging story about democrats. the white house denies involvement, but sean spicer admits that he personally met with the people at the center of the suit. >> good morning, it's wednesday, august the 2nd. i don't -- i'm not comfortable with everything the kids say, willie. >> it's terrible. >> no, they're all terrible. you don't understand. >> it's terrible. >> they're all terrible. >> what would we say to our

children about this? >> i would say i'm going to send you to your room and i'm going to spank you. >> well, if you're -- some parents don't believe in spanking. >> yeah, i know. like my dad didn't believe in spanking. if i talked back to him, pow. but it didn't affect me, mike, right? >> and sometimes it's against the law, depending on who you lie to. >> so here's the problem. you've got general kelly, a great american. an american hero. he's given his all for this country. he has given his all for this country. >> mike has a great piece on him in "the daily beast." >> he gave his all for this country. he gave his son for this country. now he's going in for this country and trying to bring order to the chaos. he can't do that if they keep lying. there is a culture in that white house where they all lie. not all, they don't all lie, let

me correct myself. just the people that are the spokespeople to the press lie. >> and the president. >> and it all starts at the top. the fish rots, you know, from the head down. and it's his culture of lying going back 30, 40 years where he would call the press up and lie and say that he was a pr guy to talk about how great he was with women. in small things and large things, he lied all the time. >> this is the united states of america and this is not right. >> and so general kelly can't do anything. you could bring back james baker, couldn't do anything, if they're just going to keep lying every single day. >> with us we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle, co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei. >> ladies and gentlemen, mike barnicle is here!

>> i don't think it's sticking, joe. >> it's going to stick. >> associate editor for commentary magazine, noah rothman and washington bureau chief for the associated press, julie pace, is with us. >> she has a scorecard, lies and not lies. >> we're not supposed to be debbie downer, but it is quite sad. it's like nothing i've ever seen before. >> it's more than sad. there could be legal consequences attached to many of these lies. >> the white house has confirmed something that the president's team had repeatedly denied. that donald trump, the president, helped draft the initial and misleading response to the revelations of a meeting between a russian attorney and his top campaign aides in trump tower. so he lied about the fact that he drafted it and also the actual thing that he drafted was not true. >> it was a lie. he said they were talking about, i don't know, like divorces or

avocado farms or something just completely irrelevant to what they were actually talking about. >> the president. >> which is we have dirt on hillary clinton. >> the response attributed to donald trump jr. claimed the june 2016 meeting was about adoption policy and made no mention of the broader campaign being discussed. of course e-mails later revealed trump junior was explicitly and exclusively offered official documents and information to incriminate hillary clinton as part of support from russia and its government. in the days after "the new york times" reported the meeting first came out, trump's attorney, jay sekulow, went on numerous shows saying repeatedly that the president was not involved in the drafting of the initial statement. >> i've known jay for a long time and have liked him. that's a lie. >> he did not tell the truth. >> he just lied. he lied. or else the president lied to

him. and then had jay go out and lie to the american people. >> this is not normal. and on monday night -- >> by the way, you don't have to say that again. we all know this is not normal. >> yeah. >> but you can say it again if you want to. >> it's just chilling, actually. the president's legal team dismissed the new "washington post" report that he personally dictated the response as fake news and of no consequence. >> that was a lie. >> but then yesterday the white house acknowledged the president did take part, claiming that his knowledge of the full story was, quote, limited. >> look, the statement that don junior issued is true. there's no inaccuracy in the statement. the president weighed in as any father would based on the limited information that he had. this is all discussion, frankly, of no consequence. there was no follow-up, it was disclosed to the proper parties, which is how "the new york

times" found out about it to begin with. >> can you clarify the degree to which the president weighed in? >> he certainly didn't dictate, but he -- like i said, he weighed in, offered suggestion like any father would do. >> first of all, if you believe the reporting, that could be proven to be a lie in the next couple of days because, willie, "the washington post," "the new york times," everybody has multiple sources that in fact it was the president who dictated it to hope hicks, who was telling him to be more transparent, and was going back and forth with don junior. again, this is an incredible thing we found out during mika's unfortunate episode. the tweeting back and forth. he would tweet things that you could prove he's lying. mika is bleeding all over her face. here's a picture, oh, she's looking lovely. on the national enquirer, joe scarborough told me to try to

kill the story. i'm sitting there reading it and it's all of these lies. wait, why would you lie about something that was so easily disproven. show me the white house records, i never called, it never happened. we're going to get to the boy scouts. that's another thing. boy scouts said it was the bettysbubett gettysburg address. no, you're lying. sarah huckabee sanders says nobody just walks into the white house, the oval office. yeah, they do. glen thrush, says i don't think, sarah -- >> that was a very bad imitation of sarah. >> no, i was imitating glen thrush. >> don't play victim. >> people are just wandering in. they lie about things that can be disproven. it's like jack having a cookie in his hand and crumbs all over his face. jack, you shouldn't have had a

cookie before dinner. chocolate chips flying all over the place. jack would never do that, by the way. that's the level of these lies. >> and they do them on levels high and low, issues big and small. big, the russia investigation. right now you had sarah sanders in that sound bite acknowledging, he did what any father would do. he did in fact help create the memo and that's the defense. >> so it proves the lawyers are lying. >> it proves jay sekulow and other people that went on tv. issues smaller, the boy scouts. to what end? why lie about that? what do you get out of that other than the fact that someone challenged whether or not you were well received, whether you were showered with praise. when the answer was, no, it wasn't uniform praise, he had to lie about it. >> donald trump freaked out because a reporter from "the wall street journal" said it was mixed. >> and he said it wasn't mixed. i know mixed, that wasn't mixed. >> but they're getting caught up with donald trump's web. go ahead. >> and that's a small thing but

it makes a larger point. there's no issue too small that they won't fabricate a story to cover something else. the russia story obviously is much bigger and more complicated and begs the question why would he lie about that. why would the white house lie about that? and why would they even implicate the president in the first place and allow him anywhere near drafting that memo. >> and by the way, leads to the bigger question, why would they lie about russia from day one? hey, nobody met with russians. we were running a campaign. we only talked to americans. because they said that. they said we only talked to americans. we want americans to vote for us, we never talked to ruskies. what did they do? we find out time and time and time and time again, they're talking to russians, and they keep lying about talking to russians. >> i think what trouble -- you talk to anybody in the white house, i don't know why they lie. we don't know. are they trying to cover something up or is it just part of the fabric of this white

house. but the thing that scares the hell out of almost everybody around donald trump and it was in that "washington post" piece buried down lie is they think it's the lies that are going to get them. there's been such a pattern of them built around the russia story, whether it's about his insecurity about not winning the popular vote, whatever the motivation of it is, it's illegal. it looks like a cover-up, like you're routinely trying to cover up facts. and it's not just the president. jared kushner gets off easy. how do you keep forgetting all of these meetings and then suddenly recalling them? you go back to that -- they're sitting on the airplane, they're drafting that note. that meeting was unforgettable. >> right. >> four people out of central casting sitting in there after giving you an e-mail saying i have the goods to sink your political opponent. it's inconceivable. it's inconceivable you would forget that and that that did not come up when they're thinking about how should we draft this. and the son at the father's urging, oh, it was about

adoption. >> can i stop you for one second. anybody with any character that knew what happened, because there are people out there trying to cover their ass saying, well, we were trying to -- no. listen, i know. if my career is on the line, my reputation is on the line and the president of the united states puts out something knowingly false, this was about adoption, when i knew he was lying, i think every one of us at this table, if you're smart, you immediately say, hey, if you put that out tomorrow, if that runs in "the new york times" tomorrow and you lie and i'm here knowing you're going to lie, i've got to go to "the new york times." i've got to resign. i've got to go to "the new york times" and i've got to tell everybody that you're lying. still ahead on "morning joe" three leading voices from the u.s. senate, democrats claire mccaskill and chris van hollen join us and republican senator rob portman. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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17 past the hour. joining us now from capitol hill, democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri and republican senator rob portman of ohio. they are part of a bipartisan group of 20 senators supporting new legislation that would hold websites liable for facilitating and growing online sex trafficking, the market. we'll get to that in just a moment. good to have you both on. >> it's always great to have you guys on. >> hey, joe. >> let's start, senator portman, with you. a lot of talk from the administration and the president himself that they're going to defund the affordable care act, that they're going to do whatever they can at health and human services to make sure that the aha basically dies on the vine.

what are republicans specifically going to do? are they going to work with the president to kill the affordable care act before there's a replacement or are you all going to make sure that people's health care gets funded? >> we've got to be sure people are taken care of, joe. i think the affordable care act is kind of dying on its own. in my own state of ohio we've got huge increases in deductibles and co-pays. we had 19 counties with no insurer a couple of days ago. 27 counties with only one insurer. i think we have about 45 now in that category. so, look, it's not a good thing for us to pull the rug out from under those people who are depending on those plans. on the other hand, we've got to do some real reforms here and that's why i did support the effort to replace, not just repeal, but to replace the affordable care act with something better. >> you're going to talk to the president at 2:00 today. are you going to discuss this with him? >> you know, we'll see. i'm looking forward to talking about the legislation claire and

i are talking to you about today, which is combatting sex trafficking. we know where it's happening, it's happening online. we have a solution that 47 attorneys general have asked us to do, all the trafficking groups have asked us to do. it's really going to make a difference. i'm looking forward to talking about tax reform. i think that's an opportunity to give the economy a real shot in the arm. we'll see what comes up. no, i don't think we ought to be pulling the rug out from under people who need this coverage. >> claire, we're going to get to your bipartisan senate bill, but i want to ask you one question about the affordable care act because -- and health care in general because so many americans are dependent on it right now, including some members of my family. so my question to you is, will you work with republicans to move beyond the affordable care act and come up actually with a bipartisan bill that maybe both republicans and democrats in missouri can look at a year from now and say don't love everything about this, but it is

a good compromise for, you know, people that represent swing voters in states like missouri? >> yeah, the most important thing we can do is to do something in a bipartisan way. what we've learned is when you do it with just one party, it becomes political. it becomes a gotcha exercise. that's what happened with the affordable care act. that's what happened when the republicans tried to do it just with republican votes. so what we've got to do is come together and meet in the middle. there are things we can do to make health care better. we all -- there's lots of problems with obamacare. but they're fixable, they really are fixable. some of it means maybe we go and acknowledge that some of the things we did were not the right way to look at this. i'm there. in fact just last night and last week i'm involved in a lot of bipartisan meetings to try to get that done. but in the meantime, joe, it would be the height of irresponsibility for this president to continue to threaten millions of americans

that he's going to take their health care away because he's upset that this bill that the republicans tried to pass didn't succeed. >> let's talk about your bill. you're going after websites as it pertains to sex trafficking. claire, can you explain what it is you're hoping to accomplish here? >> well, this is a very narrow piece of legislation that will remove a protection that sex traffickers have right now. they can hide behind a law that was written 20 years ago and say we don't have to give you any information about what we're doing because we have no responsibility as to what's on our sites. we did a very long investigation, went all the way to the supreme court over years and forced back page to give us the documents that proved that they were in fact hiding behind this statute, that they were engaged and involved in placing ads to traffic children for sex. so what we're trying to do is give other people the same tools we had with the subpoenas that were available to us in the

senate. >> senator portman, how is it that we've arrived at a point where these billion dollar insurance companies have such a thumbs up/thumbs down control in a sense of so much of the health care legislation? how did we get to this point? >> well, i'd love to talk about our sex trafficking bill too, but look, the insurance companies play a role here because they're providing the coverage. as senator mccaskill said, we've got to be sure people have access to that coverage of the one of the reasons that the replacement was important, i think, is that it would have provided for affordable coverage in the private sector for a lot of people through a tax credit, which gives them the opportunity, whether they have taxable income or not because it's refundable to be able to buy their own health care. it would be advanceable, meaning people could get it in advance of having to pay these higher premiums. so you've got to have a system where you're working with people to come up with lower premiums and lower deductibles and lower

co-pays, that's what the intent ought to be. i agree with claire mccaskill, we've got to work together on it. i have a meeting this evening to talk about that. senator alexander has announced that his committee is going to hold bipartisan hearings. the finance committee should do the same thing with -- both of us serve on that committee. we've got to fix this thing because it's not working. the status quo is failing the people i represent in ohio and it deserves to be fixed. we can continue to work on this even while we're doing other things. we can chew gum and work at the same time. >> jim vandehei. >> senator portman, i'll take you up on your offer to talk about the bill you want to talk about. my wife has worked on sex trafficking for a long time. tell us why the facebooks and googles of the world don't like your legislation and that's one of the reasons it's complicated efforts to do what a lot of people think should be done quite easily. >> first of all, jim, your wife has a champion and she produced this film "i am jane doe."

it's on netflix. it talks about our investigation and talks about exactly what claire mccaskill just said which is that these websites like backpage, which is considered to be the walmart of sex trafficking, meaning that they are probably 80% of the commercial sex traffic is on one sight, about three-quarters of the complaints that come in to the national center for missing and exploited children come in through backpage, so this is the site that does most of this. the problem is they have hidden behind a piece of legislation that is sort of pre-active internet back 21 years ago that gives them what courts have said is immunity. but the courts have asked congress to step in here. in terms of the tech companies, i think most tech companies will support this but some have concerns that they think this could lead to lawsuits against them. that's why we wrote it so narrowly. there's a house bill that's much broader but our bill is much narrower. you have to knowingly be engaged

in supporting sex trafficking. i don't believe google does that so i don't think they have a concern here. it's not about them, it is about websites that are exploiting women and children right now as we talk. we believe that this legislation is critical, as frankly does everybody in the community that's been working on this. the lawyers. the courts have asked us to step in on this one to stop this horrendous practice. >> senator claire mccaskill and senator rob portman, thank you both very much. >> you bet. up next, inside the lawsuit that accuses the white house of trying to drive coverage of the death of a slain dnc staffer. ari melber interviewed the man who brought the lawsuit. ari joins us for that, next.

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a lawsuit filed in federal court claims a fox news report about slain dnc staffer seth rich was reviewed prior to publication by president trump and was altered at the white house's request. the lawsuit filed by a private investigator, rod wheeler, who was initially hired on behalf of the rich family says his quotes in a may 16th foxnews.com story were fabricated by fox news reporter malia zimmerman.

the story was retracted by fox a week after it was published for not meeting its standards. the quotes in question implied that rich was killed for leaking internal dnc e-mails to wikileaks. wheeler claims he complained to ed butowsky, a trump supporter, who hired him to probe rich's death. wheeler said he was told, quote, that is the way the president wanted the article. the suit also alleges the rich article was an attempt to divert attention away from the ongoing russian investigation. according to the suit, zimmerman, butowsky and fox had created fake news to advance president trump's agenda. butowsky did not respond. fox news said the accusation that foxnews.com publisheded malia zimmerman's story to help detract from the coverage of the russia collusion issue is completely erroneous. the retraction of this story is

still being investigated internally, and we have no evidence that rod wheeler was misquoted by zimmerman. wheeler also claims in the suit he and butowsky met with then white house spokesman sean spicer in april and provided him with a copy of his investigative notes. he alleges spicer asked for regular updates on the story, something wheeler believes butowsky did. back in may, spicer denied knowledge of the story. >> i don't -- i'm not aware of -- i generally, i don't get updates on dnc -- former dnc staffers. i'm not aware of that. >> now spicer has confirmed to nbc news that the meeting actually did take place and that the pair, quote, came in and told me about the story they were working on for fox. the white house insisted yesterday they had no involvement in the story, but in the lawsuit, wheeler cites both a text message and voice mail from butowsky in which he

allegedly said not to add any more pressure, but the president just read the article. he wants the article out immediately. it's now up to all of you, but don't feel the pressure. joining us now, msnbc chief legal correspondent and host of "the beat" on msnbc, ari melber, who interviewed wheeler on his show last night. >> you know, ari, a lot of -- it's a lawsuit. we don't know -- we can't verify everything yet. that said, the white house has already been caught lying about this story. >> and working with fox news in some way. >> and working with fox news on this story. what can you tell us? >> a complaint is always one side of the story. there are two sides to the story. but no matter how bad the white house may or may not look when the evidence comes out, the evidence against fox here is pretty overwhelming. >> like what? >> well, they retracted the story, which means they went to air with something they later determined was false about this murdered staffer.

number two, they relied on this individual who is the core of their reporting who now says that the quotes were fabricated. fox isn't really disputing that aspect of it. which means somewhere along the line they, as a news organization, ended up running with these quotes to basically imply that this murdered individual single handedly masterminded the hacking instead of the russians. as for sean spicer, i asked mr. wheeler about that. >> can i ask you more about fox. i saw an article yesterday that alleged to have e-mails between butowsky and anchors at fox news telling them specifically what they should say. have you seen those e-mails? >> i've seen quotes from them. the complaint includes those e-mails from butowsky, who's this individual involved in the story, to the anchors. in fairness to the anchors, people get a lot of e-mails, so we can't say that that -- >> except for the fact -- >> let me break it down. >> do you have the e-mails? >> the suit claims that on may 15th, the night before the story

aired on fox, trump supporter ed butowsky e-mailed various fox news producers and on-air talent, including those at "fox & friends" telling them how to frame the story. he allegedly wrote i'm actually the one who's been putting this together, but as you know i keep my name out of things because i have no credibility. one of the big conclusions we need to draw from this is that the russians did not hack our computer systems and steal e-mails and there was no collusion like trump with the russians. according to the lawsuit, butowsky also texted wheeler that same night as well writing in part, the narrative in the interviews you might use is that you and fox news reporter malia zimmerman's work prove that the russians didn't hack into the dnc and steal the e-mails and impact our election. if you can, try to highlight this puts the russian hacking story to rest. try and highlight that it ends it. so here now is "fox & friends"

how they reported on the story the next morning. >> for a long time on the internet and elsewhere, he has been rumored to have been the one who gave wikileaks the dnc e-mails. so if that is true, and we don't know yet, it looks like russia didn't give it to wikileaks. >> right. >> seth rich perhaps. >> i think you report that out perfectly because the key here, as i was going to say in fairness to them, we don't know whether they read the e-mails or not and the case will proceed. what we do know, joe and mika, is what you just showed which is how they did cover it on air which they have now retracted. >> well, they covered it the same way that he told them to cover it in the e-mail the night before. >> yep. >> the president seems to be implicated in this a little bit. how likely is that, that that's inserted just to generate some traction here? was he completely uninsulated from this? is that likely? >> this is a bombshell that goes beyond the case. i asked mr. wheeler about that. i said you have this allegation in there, do you believe it?

he said i don't know because he doesn't personally know whether the president reviewed it. he just knows he was told that and fox news was proceeding with the case. the spicer meeting did take place. >> what's in the voice mail? >> the voice mail says basically we've heard directly from the white house, claims from this individual who worked for fox news, that the president has reviewed the article in advance and wants to go forward. so two obvious takeaways. number one, what would the president of the united states be doing reviewing journalism in advance, in this case discredited journalism, and number two, was that then part of fox news' motivation, this is a question raised by the suit, to provide a false, or to use the term of our fake news cover story regarding russia. >> wow. >> as we said earlier, the level of malice has exceeded only by the level of personal cruelty in this story. you said earlier there are two sides to every story. in this case there's three sides to the story. there's the police report and the police investigation, which

indicates that this was a random robbery, street robbery, and this poor young man gets killed. there's also his parents who have literally begged fox news and others to just stop this. it's just awful. >> exactly. this is a problem no matter what, but the fact that it is a problem built on a young man's murder, an unsolved murder, by the way, is heinous. i did ask mr. wheeler about that because he does not have completely clean hands. he started out going on fox news playing along is what it looked like and he said he publicly appa apaul jazzes to the rich family that any of this got this far. senator chris van hollen joins us live next on "morning joe."

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let's bring into the conversation, democratic senator chris van hollen of maryland. senator, so great to see you. i want to start by showing you a campaign ad from amy mcgrath

who's running for congress, democrat in kentucky. take a look. >> when i was 12 years old, i knew exactly what i wanted to do when i grew up. i wanted to fly fighter jets and land on aircraft carriers, because that's the toughest thing that you can do. when i was 13, my congressman told me i couldn't fly in combat. he said congress thought women ought to be protected and not allowed to serve in combat. i never got a letter back from my senator, mitch mcconnell. i then wrote every member of the house and senate armed services committees asking them to change the law. i said they hadn't met me yet and i knew i could do it, but most of them told me that i couldn't. then i got into the naval academy, and wouldn't you know, that's when they changed the law. i'm amy mcgrath and i love my country. i flew 89 combat missions calming al qaeda and the taliban. i was the first woman marine to fly in an f-18 in combat and i got to land on aircraft

carriers. now i'm running for congress against andy barr in kentucky. he's mitch mcconnell's hand picked congressman who said he would vote enthusiastically to take health care away from kentuckians. my mom is a polio survivor who became one of the first women to graduate from uk medical school. a lot of people told hershey couldn't pursue her dreams either but she persevered and ended up treating the same kind of people whose health care you would take away. this is my mission, to take on a congress of career politicians who treat the people like kentucky like they are disposable. some are telling me a democrat can win that battle in kentucky. that we can't take back our country for my kids and yours. we'll see about that. >> so, senator, that ad out has caught fire. john podhoretz said it was an

incredible ad. isn't this the sort of candidate, obviously a dream candidate for either party, but for democrats that need to reconnect culturally in regions where they have been shut out for some time. isn't this the type of candidate democrats need to look for? >> yes, absolutely. that's a very powerful ad, as you said. i think it connects directly with voters. you know, the house is busy recruiting a lot of those candidates. in the senate, we're also recruiting a lot of good candidates, although as you know, joe, on the democratic side, we're primarily defending a lot of seats where we already have senators who have stuck up for their constituents in their states. you were just talking to senator claire mccaskill. she's up for election. senator heidi heidcamp. these are senators who are already very connected to their states. they're all about helping the people in their states regardless of the politics. >> noah. >> senator, noah rothman with

commentary magazine. that was a culturally conservative candidate for the house. recently, i think, it was the dccca said they would be interested in funding the campaigns of pro-life democrats to the chagrin of organizations like nral and howard dean said he would probably have to withhold his support in the dccc in the event they went forward with that. can the democratic party be a pro-life party or are they two organizations? >> i think candidates in my experience are chosen by their constituents. they come out of local organizations, they come out of their local work experience, so you don't have the dsec choosing the candidates, you have the democratic primary voters in these primaries making those decisions. i think it's important that those decisions be made at the local level. what i do know is that this health care fight that we've had

generated all sorts of enthusiasm in support of our candidates across the country. >> jim vandehei. >> not just on abortion and over issues, there's a lot of pressure on democrats to take a very rigid view against donald trump. where can you work with him? are there any components of tax reform he's talking about that democrats would actually vote for, knowing no matter what you're going to say about that there's going to be so much pressure on all of you guys to never give him a win? >> no, jim, we just actually sent a letter to mitch mcconnell, we meaning the democrats in the senate, saying we were happy to work with him on genuine tax reform. we're not interested in providing another round of windfall tax breaks to very, very wealthy people. we don't think that's the priority in the country. but woe asked them to follow senator mccain's advice. let's work through the regular order, have hearings when it comes to tax reform, and we also are very concerned that they're going to blow a hole in the deficit and debt by providing

big tax breaks. what we saw in the early 2000s was that trickledown didn't work. we had the bush tax cuts. they spiked the deficit way up. they didn't do anything for regular working people. so there are things we can do to simplify our tax code. i mean there's a lot of junk in there that was put in there by people who were able to hire powerful special interest lobbyists. we need to cloneean a lot of th stuff out. but we're not interested in a exercise that's just a back door effort to provide tax breaks to very wealthy people. kind of like the health care bill, which cut health care benefits to tens of millions of americans in order to provide big tax breaks to very wealthy folks. >> senator chris van hollen, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> good to be here, thanks. frustrated over china's reluctant to rein in north korea, the trump administration is reportedly planning to take action against beijing over trade. that story is ahead on "morning joe."

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or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures... ...and before starting xarelto®-about any conditions, such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. it's important to learn all you can... ...to help protect yourself from a stroke. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. there's more to know™. amid the escalating tensions with north korea, president trump over the weekend placed the blame on china. on saturday he fired off a tweet that read in part i am very disappointed in china. our foolish past leaders have allowed them to make hundreds of billions of dollars a year in trade, yet they do nothing for us with north korea, just talk. let's go to cnbc's sara eisen

live from the new york stock exchange. sara, there are reports this morning that president trump is looking at steps to crack down on china over trade. >> yes, this could mark an escalation in the tensions with china over trade. so according to reports, the u.s. is looking to open a broad investigation into china's trade practices focusing specifically, mika, on intellectual property. allegations from u.s. companies which we've heard over the years about doing business in china, having to open joint ventures, sharing technology and research in exchange for market access. it does mark an escalation because investigations can always lead to sanctions or even tariffs. so we'll be watching this one closely. there's a lot at stake for both countries and economies. the big worry is if the u.s. does impose sanctions, china could hit back. it's an important market for u.s. companies, including

consumer companies like apple, nike, general motors. we're talking about $600 billion in two-way trade. they're our largest trade partner. and, yes, the u.s. does buy a lot more from china than we sell to china. it's still the third biggest export market for the united states, and many say helps to keep prices, consumer prices lower here in this country and supports millions of jobs. having said all that, the market doesn't appear to be worried about it, set for a new record high after the 31st, 31 record closes for the dow of 2017. apple earnings are giving extra fuel this morning. back to you guys. >> sara eisen, thank you. >> noah, it's stunning that we are moving towards a crisis with north korea. there's really only one country positioned to partner with, to de-escalate that situation, and donald trump is going to start a trade war with them today? >> well, i suppose -- >> tomorrow? >> -- it's better than steel

tariffs. this is what the business community wants. the question is whether or not they're going to move forward through 1970s laws or the wto and really describe that the agenda of steel tariffs and industrial production and ignoring these global institutions is completely defunct and we're moving forward with something standard and boilerplate. >> but technically, mike, again rattling that sabre as we are woe weeks, months away from a meltdown on the korean peninsula -- >> joe, you've got north korea with missile capable submarines out there right now and we're provoking china on a daily basis. we do not have a secretary of state -- any secretary of state to be effective, the foreign leader has to assume that he's speaking for the president of the united states. we have a secretary of state who speaks apparently for no one and to no one with regard to china. >> so it is american dream week at the white house. and yesterday the president

hosted more than 100 small business owners calling them the engine of the american dream. we're going to take another look now at a program that is focusing on empowering small businesses and really trying to get to that american dream, which in turn hire more people and continue the cycle. it's goldman sachs 10,000 small businesses program. and we should again note that goldman sachs is a partial sponsor of our show this morning. >> they wouldn't give willie or me a job earlier. >> no, no. they discriminated against you. the program has its baltimore graduation today and joining us now, the mayor of baltimore, katherine pew, along with two business owners graduating today, president and ceo of mahogany incorporated, jeff hargrave and crystal boykins, company owner of cuties on duty. this is a program we've been following for years. tell us some of the challenges

in baltimore. i've spent a lot of time there specifically in the city to try and help businesses get a start. >> well, first let me just say while we have our challenges, we have a great opportunity here. we have currently 12,000 small businesses in baltimore, but this kind of investment between bloomberg philanthropies and goldman sachs means a great deal for baltimore. you're talking about almost 60 individuals who will graduate from a program that is encouraging small business to continue to grow in our cities so we're very excited. you'll meet the two entrepreneurs and talk to them, but i can tell you this is like fuel in the city of baltimore, to continue to expand and grow small business. i'm just totally excited because this means a great deal to baltimore because what we do know is small business is the engine that drives the economy of any city. and so this is really exciting for baltimore and i look forward to more people in our city taking advantage of this opportunity and i'm really grateful we've got some exciting people coming to our city today. you know mr. bloomberg is here,

mr. blankfein is here, warren buffett is here saying they believe in baltimore. we believe in baltimore and certainly we believe in the opportunities that businesses will provide for our city empowering our people in our cities. >> all right. >> you also have these business owners. let's go to crystal. cuties on duty. >> hello. >> what were you able to accomplish through the program? but more importantly i'd like to hear your goals for a year from now. >> well, what i got from the program is how to structure my business. we've been in business for about five years but we started off going door to door selling our products to nail and beauty salons. we actually gave the term to rolling until the wheels fell off. our suitcases were worn on the same street that we are located in, which is inside of the avenue market. cuties on duty is all about building confidence, being unique, tenacious and empowered. although we're a small business,

we're making a big impact in our community. when i think about community, i think about unity, coming together, and just being able to aspire and also hire. five years from now i see us going globally, so more so growing from just being locally to a global company. >> amazing. >> and we specialize in customized accessories, body butters and body oils. so we're ready to take this journey and thankful for this program. it really has gave us structure and it really has caused us to grow. >> okay. so let me move to jeff as we close this out here because i want to hear what your goals are for the company and what the program itself has done to make those goals possible. i'm looking at employee growth. are you looking at expanding your company? >> yes, good morning, everyone. jeff hargrave, president of mahogany incorporated.

we're a general contracting firm. yes, we intend to grow. our grow plan is to grow nationally up and down the east coast. we currently employ 55 people here in baltimore city and with our goldman sachs training, we're hoping to expand nationally eventually. i mean the goals are endless. needless to say it taught me to think big, dream bigger. i always had big dreams but now after the goldman sachs program, the goal, the sky is the limit and we're really trying to do some big things not only in baltimore but across the u.s. >> all right. >> jeff hargrave, crystal boykins, congratulations on today's graduation, by the way, mayor cath lynnkatherine pugh, as well. >> jim havandehei, final though. >> it's awesome to see these young entrepreneurs. i tell any college student i talk to there's nothing more exciting, more fun, more thrilling than starting a company and doing it from the

ground up like these folks are doing. >> what's your takeaway. >> small business, growth engine of america. >> away from small business, what are your takeaways? >> we are just testing apparently intercontinental ballistic missiles in the pacific, which is a delivery vehicle. so the north korea issue is going to be on the front -- >> you're such a downer. >> sorry, guys. forewarning. >> at the same time, the fact that that's happening and donald trump is provoking china at this time is pretty stunning. i am sure i would guess that general mattis and just about everybody else that may have to send americans into war would probably prefer that he didn't provoke the chinese at this stage. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. thanks, joe. good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle with so much to handle. how about this one, like any dad would do. the white house confirms, that's right, confirms now tha