of his family, all in order to try to put out the fake narrative, you know, to, you know, take attention away from the russian hacking. it is an ugly chapter. >> it's an ugly chapter. we're going to pick this up tomorrow, keep having this conversation, because it's an important one. thank you very much, charlie sieks. thanks to my entire panel for being with me. we're going to turn things over to "mtp daily" with chuck todd. hi, chuck. >> how are you doing, nicole? boy, that credibility crisis it keeps growing from our friends in washington. >> sad. >> thank you. if it's wednesday, we've come a long way from george washington and that cherry tree. tonight, the white house credibility crisis deep ens. >> i don't think it's appropriate to lie from the podium or any other place. >> more cases of team trump's taste for fake news. but are they misstatements, miss directions or simply mistakes? >> jerry, just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it.

>> a lie between truth and fiction continues to get blurry. finally, president trump punish is putin, but he says little, signing sanctions behind closed doors. >> the fact he does this quietly reinforces the narrative that the trump administration is not serious about pushing back on russia. >> this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. well, good evening. i'm chuck todd here in new york and welcome to m pt daily. tonight's lead is one that we as journalists don't take pleasure in writing. it's another when you mislead and get caught. and it's a whole another animal if you flat-out lie. >> do you see any circumstances where it's appropriate to lie from the podium? >> absolutely not. i don't think it's appropriate to lie from the podium or any other place. >> and it's a question that had to be asked today of this kwhs.

but covering the white house over the past few days, it has been a mind numbing combination of shocking are and depressing because as bad as we thought the credibility crisis was it's much worse. they've been caught in blatant contradictions and petitioned fab indications. where to begin. so let's start with that misleading statement that donald trump jr. gave to the public about his meeting during the campaign. first you're going to hear what the president's lawyer told me on "meet the press" a few weeks ago, followed by what the white house ended up saying yesterday. >> the president was not involved in the drafting of the statement. >> he weighed in, offered suggestion like any father would do. >> so was sekulow lying to me? was he just misinformed? that we don't know. and it's a question he needs to answer. but either way, what he said turned out not to be true. then the white house made things worse by saying this. >> the statement that done junior issued is true.

there's no inaccuracy in the statement. >> no inaccuracy? as john mcenrow might understand up saying, you cannot be serious. this is a meefrting with a russia laura kpd by at least four other people that the campaign took because they were told it was part of a russia government backed effort to incriminate hillary clinton. did trump junior's first statement mention any of that? nope. consider this one on sunday i spoke with one of the president's top outside vifrs, his former campaign manager lewandowski about white house turmoil and the white house chief of staff and out of nowhere cory lewandowski brought up this person and topic. >> i think the general should relook at firing richard -- it's my recommendation to the president of the united states to fire rich afterward core drain. >> i've got to ask this considering that you brought this up. do you have any business interest here? do you have a client that wants to see this happen? >> no, no. i have no clients whatsoever. >> and no clients whatsoever.

that turned out to be demonstrably false according to a draft contract obtained by the new york times, one of lewandowski's clients community choice financial offered him a $20,000 a month retainer to explicitly further their agenda. consider this one. here is what sean spicer told reporters back on may 16th when fox news posted a story that ended up being restraktd later that attempted to link the death of a dnc staff to wikileaks. >> scene, can we get a white house reaction or the president's reaction to the report that seth rich was e-mailing wikileaks before his murder? >> i don't -- i'm not aware of -- generally i don't get updates on dnc, former dnc staffers. i'm not aware of that. >> at the time we thought that was innocuous answer. turned out spicer was aware at that time. in fact, he ended up acknowledging in an n pr story yesterday after allegations were made in federal court that he personally met with the sources of that fox news story in april.

so spicer has since confirmed. they were, quote, informing me of the fox story is how spicer put it. and that lawsuit brought by a former homicide detect stif who was tasked with investigating the death. the white house says those charges are absolutely untrue. finally, consider this, in an interview that president trump gave to the wall street journal last week he feels pressed about the controversial speech he gave to the boy scouts which later prompted them to apologize on the president's behalf. mr. trump boasted to the jurm, quote, i got a call from the head of the boy scouts said it was the greatest speech that was ever made to them. the reaction from the boy scouts, we are unaware of any such call. as chris carter might say, come on, man. and these are just the tip of the iceberg. folks, the common question i get from folks in the white house from all levels is how do we improve our roim in the press? my answer, not like this. if they're going to potentially mislead us about everything from crowd sizes to campaign meetings to what was said at the boy

scouts, throw out wildly unsubstantiated claims like obama wired my phones and then blast reporters for so-called fake news when they're called out on this nonsense, why should we or the public or congress take them at their word for anything. that's their challenge. joining me now, media correspondent for n pr. so david, you and i were talking before the show and i told you not only do we not take any pleasure in this, it's extraordinarily uncomfortable as a journalist, we believe we're refr he's, we're calling balls and strikes. when you get lied to as a human being, you immediately look at that person, whoever lied to you, you look at them differently. so, yes, i think us in the press corps, we're more skeptical. trump's base is more skept alof us. herein our dilemma. >> this is about credibility. one of the facets of this when you think about it is that reporters react badly, news

organizations react badly when being lied to as you felt you were programs lied to by jake sekulow in that clip. because credibility is the currency of the realm here. we're trying to traffic in information, context and truth so people understand the world around them and this defeats that purpose. so the press has a credibility issue in part because of our failings and in part because of the fact that we have been used as a political target to bludgeon for political purposes by folks on both sides but particularly the right. the trump white house is almost uniquely situated for two reasons. one of which it seems from the moment sean spicer went out, the first hours of the administration to mislead the public about crowd sizes that truth was not going to be a priority, in fact, was almost discouraged. and the second thing is that, you know, we have seen the press corps at times react with an intensity of coverage and an intensity of tone as they are covering this most

unconventional administration. >> look, i think -- here is the thing. does the boy scouts lie? it's like -- >> why are you doing this? >> it's silly. on one hand, i remember i had this back and forth with kelly an during the infamous alternative facts thing when she goes why did you -- you're saying -- i felt ridiculous that we were -- that we felt like we had to -- why are you misleading us on crowd sizes? and it seems silly, but if you're misleading us on that, what else -- >> that's the dilemma we face, and we have to draw a line somewhere. >> i think you hold things accountable. you do it in the moment and you do it for the record. you do it so people know that the first six months of this administration there is a record like the one that you just provided a little, small slice of just now. i mean, this is a sample. this is not the full exhaustive back catalog of the list of things that are misleading, untrue or potentially lies. >> the irony to all of this is let's take the cory lewandowski example. it doesn't change his opinion.

it doesn't change that he got it out there. why mislead? you know, obviously in the moment maybe he felt uncomfortable that it looked like it was a client driven decision, but you throw all the are information out there and then you let the folks be the judge. the irony is -- these little stupid miss leads have created more problems for them because then they get exposed literally 12 hours later. >> so let's do a current day version of that. sean spicer has been badly compromised by the things that he's had to go and say to the press corps. in the case that you mentioned that we reported on yesterday on n pr, this case in whether in this instance did the white house in effect collude with a vocal backer and fox news in creating circumstantially almost from whole cloth a story complicating democrats of a cover-up of a murder of a young aide. to my knowledge of any stories before they emerged. in this lawsuit, this fox news paid contributor said that he was told by this other guy that

they were -- that he had to get the story on the air because the president wanted it on the air and in fact the president had reviewed drafts of the fox news story in advance. normally you'd hear this the press secretary of the president of the united states saying he didn't get this. of course it didn't happen. well, so many things have been undermined, the enact that we have this videotape of sean spicer saying i don't get briefed on what happened to a young democratic aide where i have confirmed through sean spicer and the two other participants that he was briefed on april 20th about an investigation in that very fact means that it's much harder to take this at face value. >> i said this yesterday. there is some segment of the population that is, you know, watching, you know, what the politicians are saying, watching the press and thinks i don't know what to believe, and i don't know who to believe. and they sort of throw up their hands and say i give up. and i've had that conversations with folks and i'm like what, are you kidding me? i would be fired for lying. >> you would be, but not everybody believes that.

>> i know. >> there's the rub. and part of the thing is this, people including, you know, including steve bannon who is now the president's chief political advisor, people in certain parts of the media and certain parts of the larger trump world are happy for that to be the case. that is part of the political campaign, that's part of not just a tactic but a strategy is to undermine the credibility. weirdel, it plays into the kind of republican -- excuse me, russia disinformation outlets like rt, like sputnik news that are happy to throw up enough chafe to create doubt. it's not that everything they publish is untrue. it's that they are creating doubt about the ver as itd of things that other news organizations have done. >> here is what's happened. we're turning american politics into -- ask any american correspondent based in the middle east. middle east mix is all on rumor and hearsay. ufrm, wars almost start over it. and decisions get made on one side or the other of these disputes based on rumor and

innuendo. and that is a scary -- we don't like it when we see it in the middle east. we have to spend so many time separating fact from fiction in the middle east for those that sit at the table. and now we're doing it. >> well, in the crisis that erupted in the gulf states in cutter it appears to have been a result of disinformation, a campaign by another one of the states. we have to in the press do the best we can to show our -- to live our values, to say we're going to be fired if something goes wrong. fox news hasn't done that for had that seth rich story. but most of the time you've got to be able to show your homework in public, be as transparent as possible, be humble p. sometimes people aren't going to believe you when you do it. it's fair, i think, doesn't mean we need to shy away from our role of trying to hold others accountable as well. >> you have to corps our industry as a beat. it's no fun sometimes. thanks for coming on. >> you bet. >> appreciate it. as we've been talking about, misleading statements from the trump administration be have been adding up. here are just a few more of them

which were later contradicted by another member of the trump administration. here it is. >> does the president fire director comey to impede the russia investigation? >> that's not what this was about. >> in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story. >> i had talked to general flynn. none of that came up, the subject matter of sanctions or the actions taken by the obama administration did not come up in the conversation. >> the president was very concerned that general flynn had misled the vice president and others. >> i guess it was the biggest electoral college win since ronald reagan. >> the fact president obama 33 -- george h.w. bush 426 when he won as president, so why should -- >> well, no. i was given that information. i don't know.

i was just given. we had a very, very big margin. >> all the contact about the trump campaign and the soeshlts was with the american people. >> as you can see from the e6789 mails the pretext of the meeting was we have information. it just was sort of nonsensical. >> let me bring in tonight's panel. stephanie rule an msnbc anchor. two stooes and a stephanie. everybody is a ph. >> no v's. >> the credibility crisis in this white house, i feel like you have given voice to this in some passionate ways, more so than any other republican operate ti i've seen. but it's just -- i have to say, i feel like we're hang r banging our heads against the walls as a press corps. >> you have to have a presumption that every statement that's made from the white house at this point is a dishonest one. i mean, the honest statements -- >> do you start from that

premise? snoo now i do, of course. i do think that there is a deficiency in the coverage. they don't get a clean slate every day. i mean, what happened in january and february and march and april, it all matters in reality, in real life. the difference with trump lies is the degree to which they're lies of authority. they require obedience to the leader, to suspend disbelief. clearly what's in front of your eyes. there's a different manner than most political lies in the level of lying, the pernicious nsz in it. you just don't see this in healthy democratic societies. there's no healthy democrat raes anywhere in the world where the lying is as frequent and obvious and unraveling like this. it's bad for the country. >> stephanie, you're like me, you're on the receiving end of the either complaints or how can we make this better from the white house? there are people in the white house that know they're in a bad place here and they don't know what to do about it. >> they don't know what to do about it, but they're at will

employees who could quit. one thing that's noteworthy is the president continuously tauts the stock market. he says these business leaders who believe in me. that's nonsense. if you talk to investors, what they're doing is ignoring the trump noise. yes, there has been a rally. there's excitement over deregulation. it miept not even happen. from a market's perspective they know that we're not getting more regulation. but there are no more investors looking at the trump administration and believing anything they say at this point. they're tuning them out. >> i think at a serp point we have to step back and say i don't think there's an interest here on donald trump's part in meeting the press halfway. i don't think there's going to be. i think it's part of the strategy. i don't think that donald trump is somebody who sits back and has a grand design, but i think the effect perform what he does. we are part of his strategy. having the media stand up every day and say this is a lie, this is wrong. >> i know. and this is my concern, right, which is we are playing into a strategy. steve bannon told it one of the few interviews -- on the record

quotes he gives. he gives plenty of background quotes. but on the record quotes he gave is that the press is sort of the opposition. and, yes, we, quote, fall into the trap because at the end of the day we're charged with calling balls and strikes and there's a heck of a lot strikes that we know are actually balls. >> robert mueller is at work. he's continuing to forge ahead. so he can did he ledge milt eyes the press all day long. >>el you know, he's not lying to the press. he's lying through the press. he's lying to the american people. and without truth in a democracy you can't have accountability. the liberty requires truth. it's authoritarian regimes where lying is main streamed and people are forced and fed information that they know not to be true. >> i want you to share something with -- you were in iraq working on behalf of the administration. you've been in the middle east. and when i was just talking with david, the middle east high school had a kaurgt of inu wen

dough for decades and it's extraordinaryel dangerous. it has started wars. it has potentially almost -- and that's what it feels like washington feels like no different than when i'm in the middle east hearing all sorts of crazy. >> you know, there's a culture of conspiracy in all of those countries. >> none of them are full democracies outside of really. >> a 100%. and that's why in democracies truth from goth officials, right, reliability of information is essential, because in democracies, they require informed citizens, and that means we have to be able to objectively look and say this is true, this is not. the sun rises in the east, it sets in the west. and the course eng of these virtues by this administration has much bigger implications than the daily news story of, awe, we caught them lying again. >> get back to this issue. look, it is a good political

tactic for them. >> here is the uncomfortable thing and i don't know how to address this from the media standpoint, but i just put the possibility out here because i think donald trump's rise last year, his ability races some questionable things about our politics. how many of the people who are supporting him right now, how many of the people we're talking about, it's not that they are being fooled by misinformation, that they just need to hear about -- it's that they recognize, they see on some level this guy is kind of full of it, but they like the posture. they don't like the media. they don't like popular culture, which i've never seen in my life. sort of popular culture leans a bit to the left. i've never seen it more unified, built around a political figure and absolutely universal in its condemnation. how many people supporting trump recognize on some level, feel on some level, yeah, this guy is kind of a con man, but you know what? he's our con man. >> that i do believe. >> he got a stand approximating ovation when he arrived at laguardia airport on friday.

there is some level out there where people like this. but at some point they voted for president trump because they said enough is enough. i'm forgot ten, i'm not paid more. i want to be heard. at some point he has to deliver and nothing has happened in this administration from a legislative standpoint where eldeliver to those angry americans. >> and down to a 33% approval level. i meaner, if you're a member of congress, you understand that the last 118 years we've had three elections where the incumbent party has picked up seats you're ready to hit the panic button here. >> a vote for president is personal and you're not going to admit you're wrong this quickly. >> also, usually what you say is when you look back -- like look at barak obama he had the mandate he won. he had the honey man. he had the 70% approval very early. there was something top kind of come down from. there was a difference between what he campaigned on and then what happened when he started trying to govern.

with donald trump, we've been in the same crisis, panic, outrage mode from his candidacy to today. there's a through line. >> also, if you're one of his voters you can hate the press all you want, but republicans control the government. are they going to deliver on those promises? >> all right. we've got multiple touz of steve and stephanie. thank you. going to pause here. coming up, going alone didn't work for republicans on health care, so why are they thinking of doing the same thing on tax reform? that's next. ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪

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work for republicans on healt . welcome back. president trump normally likes to sign things with some fan fair, shows us the signature, but today the president signed a bill that imposed new sanction on russia without any cameras or reporters. afterwards the white house simply released not one, want two but three separate statements about the measure. the president fired multiple shots at congress which overwhelmingly supported this

bill saying, quote, improperly encroaches on executive power, disadvantages american companies and remains seriously flawed. well, the president received praise from both sides of the aisle for at least signing the bill. senator lindsey graham did not pull back his criticism of these signing statements. >> the fact he does this kind of quietly i think reinforces the narrative that the trump administration is not really serious about pushing back on russia, and i think that is a mistake too because putin will see this as a sign of weakness. >> well, meanwhile, the president has still not commented on president putin's decision to retaliate against the sanctions by ordering the u.s. to slash the diplomatic staff in russia. meanwhile, though, you have the russian, former russian president med ved he have taunting the trump administration for allowing congress to dictate the terms of engagement with russia. we'll have more with "mtp daily" in 60 seconds. this is the new guy?

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health care and tax reform. those were the two big legislative priorities for republicans armed with the united government after the 2016 election. but part of that plan came to a crashing vote when republicans could not muster 60 votes to move forward. as we said in our political blog this morning, if at first you don't succeed, try try again, but maybe try a different strategy while you're at it. but the white house and republicans on the hill starting to talk up tax reform. it's still not clear what strategy the gop will use. will they try a bipartisan effort on tax as a lesson learned? joining me now is louisiana republican senator bill cass i who himself is still trying to cobble together some votes. welcome back. >> thank you for having me. >> let me ask you this, while you and lindsey graham are still trying to push your healthcare bill, where is mitch mcconnell? is the senate leadership ready to move to tax reform or do you

really have a window here to do something and is it a two-week window, three-week window? what is it. >> two things, one, mitch mcconnell says until you have 50 votes in the senate, he's moving to tax reform, but the president continues to invest a heck of a lot of resources, personal and kind of putting people in the white house at our disposal, if you will, in order to come up with something that will get 50 votes. so if we do it, it will be pause the white house has convened governors with their medicaid directors to come up with a plan that gets to 50. whether mitch takes it up totally depends on the whip count. >> go back to the original premise of this segment and how i kicked it off which is you were an advocate of trying to work across the aisle from the beginning. as you know how the senate works, when you decide to say you're going to do reconciliation, you're sending a message to the other side, hey, don't bother, okay. we're not really -- you know, we're going to try to go this alone. it didn't work with health care. why do you expect a better

outcome to use this strategy on taxes? >> well, i think first you have to say why did it not work on health care. as i may have mentioned to you before, chuck, i've reached out to probably ten different democrats and the consistent message i got was we're not going to help you. even though the plan susan collins and i put forward -- >> but senator cassidy, in fairness did you ask those democrats would you work with us if he took reconciliation off the table? >> we didn't mention process at all. we were just saying can you -- because we thought we could drive the process. if all of a sudden we had democrats coming on board our bill, frankly, we thought that would drive it. but it didn't work. and i can't point fingers. i'm just striebing what happened. as regards taxes, we're going to have an open committee process. that will be different than what was done on health care. there will be an open committee process. i suspect that at the end it's what do we wish to pass, how many votes do you need to pass it, and will we get cooperation from the other side. it will come down to kind of once more a vote count.

>> i hear you, but i guess is there a part of this that -- well, i understand it's about vote count, is there a part of this that says, you know, we're all complaining about how broken the process was during health care, and you were one of the people in line, not happy about this process. so why do it again? and i say this from a totally crass political point. why have the fight amongst yourselves? it becomes republicans fighting republicans over taxes, and you basically let the democrats off the hook by doing reconciliation. >> i accept your premise. i think the concern is -- well, it takes two to tango. and i don't know -- i can't speak for leader mcconnell, but i suspect mr. mcconnell is concerned that elnever quite get the votes he needs to get to 60. it will always be one short. it will always be lucy pulling the football and since he earnestly wishes to get some tax reform done, what pathway do you use to get there? i'm also told, before i came to

the senate, that there were these situations where you're always just one short. and the person whoch wasn't with you this time might be with you next time, but not somebody else. a strategy, if you will, made to thwart. does that splay a lack of trust in the institution? absolutely. i'm not defending that. i'm not saying it's truth, but i'm just describing it. >> very quickly, a couple of other issues that hit the table today. the white house rolled out this idea of what they called merit-based immigration. let me just ask as a whole, do you believe we have too much legal immigration in this country? should we have -- should we slow down legal immigration in this country or not? >> no. i think appropriate legal immigration. in fact, jeff sessions who is probably the most -- when he was a senator was a strictest on immigration felt like our legal immigration was at an appropriate number. and so i think we're at a good place there. >> and so you don't believe we need to contract this. there was some implication today we're kind of contracting legal

immigration and what the white house is considering. if that what it turns to be, is that something you could support. >> well, i've not seen the chapter and verse. i'll reserve kind of comment on that because i'd like to look at it. but i do think merit based immigration actually benefits americans who are already here. when you speak to the, woing american, he or she feels like folks coming in are taking their jobs. you can argue it. that's the perception. but if an entrepreneur comes in, someone with capital or skill that in turn creates jobs, there's a totally different attitude. you want them to come to your depressed area because you want your depressed area to prosper. i do think common ground could be inviting those folks in that makes life better for those who are already here. that would, i think, be a way forward. >> and very quickly on north korea. there's been some charter of the idea of should the united states prepare for programs a preemptive strike of some form or another. i've not heard anybody ready to have this debate in congress

yet. is that -- is congress ready to punt tax reform for a couple of weeks and sit there and say, hey, let's have this conversation about a preemptive strike before wesz the debate perk late in public? >> before we have that debate, there needs to be a briefing with cia in an area in which they can reveal that which should not be made public. it will be from informers within north korea as well as satellite photos that give us a true picture of their capability. it's after that briefing that you decide whether to have the public debate. we've had briefings of north korea, but not to the level of of the informers think this, satellite pick ups think that. and until he have with that it's a little bit hard to answer that question. >> so you think it's been premature to even have this debate about a preemptive strike of some sort. >> from my perspective. there might be somebody that knows that i just described. i'm not about to be engaged in something that has potential

ramifications for south korea, for japan and potentially for us. we have to know the facts before we make the decision. >> senator bill cassidy. republican from louisiana. appreciate you coming on and sharing your views, sir. always god to talk to you. >> thank you. >> still ahead, the president signs off on new sanctions against russia, but is the administration serious about holding putin accountable? we'll find out after the break. for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. hey. what can you tell me about your new social security alerts? oh! we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so you'll be in the know.

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welcome back to "mtp daily."

as we mentioned, the u.s. slapped more sanctions on iran north korea and russia tonight. the tough words on paper don't necessarily match what the president has said out loud, especially when it comes to russia. so what to believe. and if we're want sure we can trust the white house these days, what are our allies or our adversaries thinking right now. joining me now, richard, of course author of the book a world in disarray which was recently adopted into a vice documentary available on hbo. and of course, you wrote this before this administration took over. mr. has, as always, sir, welcome. >> thank you, mr. to do. >> let's start with you talked to a lot of european leaders, global tiists. they saw the president today basically say nothing about putin and if anything criticize congress for how they went about

doing these sanctions. and let me another, dimitri medvedev taunted president obama in a tweet a few minutes ago. the trump administration has shown its total weakness by handing over executive power to congress in the most humiliating way. how is all this playing in europe? >> well, not terribly well. the europeans are worried that mr. trump is too benign or soft on russia. plus they won't particularly like these sanctions because a lot of them are aimed at european firms. so this will cause cross atlantic tensions or friction as much as anything. it will stir in moscow. the russians don't like the sanctions simply because it shows that their preference for mr. trump has proved to be counterproductive or at least empty because congress has stepped into the void. i think the most interesting thing on united states and russia may be coming up with what we do about ukraine and whether we're prepared to provide them the sort of

defensive arms that the obama administration considered but never agreed to send and whether this administration will do it. >> should we be concerned that the president does not criticize putin? >> well, again, it adds to the unexplained mystery of why for two years this president, first as a candidate, now as president of the united states has what i would call a benign or sanguine view of mr. putin and russian power and the fact that he again has missed an opportunity to tweet or speak when his shyness about doing either is not clear. again, it reinforces the message or the question at least about what's going on. >> lindsey graham went as far as to say that vladimir putin, he'll view it as a sign of weakness, the fact that the president signed it in the dark -- you know, behind closed doors and doesn't support it, doesn't appear to support it. >> well, he's clearly lost the opportunity to send a message that he stands behind it. but again, i'll be looking

closely at what is he prepared to do to strengthen nato's capability to withstand any sort of russian behavior. in the rest of europe i'll be interested to see what he does or doesn't do to help ukraine. that to me will probably be more significant than what he says, tweets or signing into law sanctions. >> i want to switch geersz here to north korea. secretary tillerson yesterday i thought made bigger news than what was given at the time when he said he was ready to have direct talks, sit down. saying the united states wasn't interested in regime change, wasn't yet -- you know, put all these sort of -- and what i'm curious about was secretary tillerson speaking to north korea or china. >> i thought he was speaking to potentially to both. the only thing that worked against his message, because you're right, he talked about we weren't interested in regime change and so forth, is that he seemed to condition or predicate the willingness to have direct talks on north korea agreeing in advance or up front to get rid

of its missiles and its nuclear weapons. it's simply not going to do that. so if that proous to be a precondition, then what he said yesterday was no policy departure whatsoever. >> do you buy -- there's some that -- some foreign policy analysts, i think some obama administration officials they feel there's a drum beat for preemptive action that's taking place in the trump administration. do you see it that way. >> well, drum beat is sfarjing or a bit strong. i would simply say, look, there's only three options. we negotiate and that hasn't really been tried. you have to be a little bit skeptical. you live with it and that shall we say is a problem given the threat that north korea would pose to us directly. or you use military force against it. and the danger there is obviously you trigger a second korea war. so we don't have any options that are both attractive and promising. so now we've got to choose among clearly undesirable options, and that's where we are. >> well, and it's going to be

hopefully a debate congress also will take up. >> oh, for sure. >> well, you say for sure, but as you know, congress is in the past have been hesitant to have these debates in the past. thanks for coming and sharlg your news. still ahead, "meet the press" meets the silver screen. not just being in the military, but at home. she thinks she's the boss. she only had me by one grade. we bought our first home together in 2010. his family had used another insurance product but i was like well i've had usaa for a while, why don't we call and check the rates? it was an instant savings and i should've changed a long time ago. there's no point in looking elsewhere really. we're the tenneys and we're usaa members for life. usaa. get your insurance quote today.

ykeep you sidelined.ng that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for the strength and energy to get back to doing... ...what you love. ensure. always be you. welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with something pretty darn cool that we're doing here at "meet the press." we announced today that "meet

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some call them veterans. we call them our team. time for the lid. the panel is back. we have the steves. plus stephanie. i have to say we're now on 48 hours since jeff flake's op ed and the president is yet to react. john kelly showing his ability to at least tame the twitter beast? >> for the moment, but president trump, is 71 years old. fine you're not going to get him tweeting yet, but he's coming back. just give it a day. >> it's interesting if you're

somebody to try to explain to him why not responding to flake is a good idea. yesterday senators spent their time distancing themselves from flake, not the president. had the president attacked flake, what do we think republican senators would have done? probably defended flake. >> i think it's interesting watching the news. you think about jeff flake's book and the point he's making. we'll see what the disposition republican senators is and members of congress is the president's number is at 33, 32, 31%. politics ha politicians have a finely tuned need for self-preservation. the first midterm is a tough one. give it a couple of months. i think we might see a fair number of new converts toward flake's point of view. >> i hear you. we also expect what flake did

will invite a primary challenge and a very serious one. it feels like this could be almost more of an impactful election than the mid terms themselves potentially at least on the direction of the republican party. >> here's why i think we haven't seen republicans come out and join flake yet. i'm not sure we're going to. i think what messes with the minds of republican leaders, republicans in congress is this, all the terrible numbers that trump racked up as president, he racked up as candidate. the blaring alarms, we went through with trump as a candidate. think of the access hollywood tape. the speaker of the house gave him up weeks before the election. told republicans save yourselves. he can't win. you have to win this election for yourselves and he won. i think the message it sent is wait a minute. does this guy know the base of my own party than he does. does have a bond with the base of my party that i don't

understand. i think it paralyzes them. i think they look at it and say what's different from a year ago? >> he proved to his party that he knew how to win. in six months he hasn't proven that he knows how to govern. look at how health care turned out. where is tax reform going to go. those republicans have to go back to their states and deliver. >> this is what i can't get over going back to the tax reform. why let democrats off the hook? by deciding to do a reconciliation it means, let's say for tax reform, it's orrin hatch and susan collins will fight with each other. the democrats say you don't want us here. fine. >> we have serioceased to make arguments this is good for america. there's no persuasion involved. back door dealing. we're going to jam this through. i would say with senator flake,

this, many members of congress and senators privately when they're talking to you, no one i talk to disagrees with him on that. the point is they're all scared to death. you saw with flake is the rarsest of politicirars e -- rarest of politician showing no fear. he's courting it. he wants to have the fight. i think it's great. >> what does it say he purposely didn't let his staff know because he was worried they would talk him out of it. >> there was a recent poll, he's the only one under water with general election voters. he's got two interests he's got to serve. >> he's the ultimate canary in a coal mine. steves and stephanie. good use of the phs in all of your names. >> too much jersey. after the break some love from across the aisle. machine

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. in case you missed it, john mccain's most recent move has made him extremely popular with democrats. that's right the arizona senator is a lot more popular with the left right now than he is with right. a new poll shows 72% of democrats with a favorable opinion of the long time republican senator. bernie sanders-esque numbers. it's a reaction to john mccain's no vote last week to help derail republican efforts on obamacare. 60% of the independents have a

favorable opinion on mccain. among his own party, his rating is underwater. there's something curious about a republican who can get support from democrats but not from his own party, it only explains po larization even better than we could by saying anything. just look at those poll reaction these days. the beat goes on because the beat with ari starts right now. mr. melber, how you doing? >> i'm good mr. todd. i'm old enough to remember 1999-2000 back then when mccain was more popular with the democrats. >> thank you. allegations fox news pushed a false murder report to undercut the russia inquiry is heading towards the white house tonight.