be concerned about potential challenges from his own side. >> well, look, he's already got his eyes on 2020. we know they're raising money for that. we'll see where it goes from here. >> hey, tell my counter guest to get his former boss to joip us. >> all right. i've got to jump. we're out of time, but that's going to wrap things up for us herement of thanks very much. breaking news and news as it happens. joy reid is next. >> are there any russians here tonight? any russians? democrat lawmakers will have to decide. they can continue their obsession with the russian hoax or they can serve the interests of the american people. >> despite terrible poll numbers, leaked transcripts that have many in the world laughing or cringing depending on your point of view and facing

multiple grand juries veflting russia gate, donald trump and his intrepid supporters dug in this week, ratcheting up the war on the russian investigation and the man leading it, special counsel robert mueller. >> let me remind everyone what the president has said about this. it's a witch-hunt. it's fake. last night i believe he called it a fabrication. >> mueller has put together a democratic hit squad that has donated tens of thousands of dollars to, leetsd see, democrats, including hillary and barak obama. >> even julian assange of wikileaks which u.s. intelligence agencies view as a none state intelligence service that played a role in russia gate got in on the game tweeting on friday is robert mueller a dirty cop? of course, all these attacks won't stop with fbi and mueller from digging into the dealings of team trump. nbc news reports that the special counsel is using those two grand juries to obtain records and further his investigation. and from what we know so far, it appears that mueller and the fbi

are leaving no stone unturned. as of this week subpoenas have been issued for records of business transactions by former trump campaign manager pan manafort and former national security advisor michael flynn. and according to reuters, systems have also been oishld in connection with a june 2016 meeting between donald trump j his son-in-law jared kushner, paul manafort a russia lawyer with ties to the kremlin and other russia nationals. and "the new york times" reports that investigators have also asked the white house for documents related to flynn and have questioned witnesses about whether he was on the payroll of the turkish government while also working for trump. nbc news has not independently verified the times report. but while the investigation continues to develop, completely out of his control, donald trump increasingly finds himself boxed in on capitol hill as well. the united states senate with the full support of republicans, who until now generally protected trump at every turn, have blocked him from potentially replacing his

attorney general with smbl who could end the investigation while congress takes its august break. in other words, trump finds himself mired in problems that no stump speech, no friendly cable channel and no tweet can fix. joining me now, msnbc contributor malcolm nans, republican strategist, intelligence analyst and former white house ethics lawyer richard parent. thank you all for being here. >> cnn reported on friday that robert mueller is pursuing information about donald trump's financial ties to russia. a quote from that piece sources described that an investigation that has would it end to focus on possible financial crimes, some unconnected to the 2016 elections. just take us into sprield world and the ray is that russia works. why would that matter, financial ties unrelated specifically to the election? . >> well, this -- everyone has said follow the money and this seems to be the crux of a lot of speculation.

and it's img aological road to go down. i think what's going to end up happening, the big question here is what if mueller comes aacross something, a crime that isn't directly attributed to the russia investigation? and i know it has -- mueller is limited to investing things that are set forth in his mandate. if it's not something in his mandate, then he has to either ask permission to investigator refer to the doj. this is going to be an interesting political battle. so, you know, this question of collusion, this question of financial ties, if they don't bear out, which we don't know what mueller knows, if they don't bear out but there are these second crimes, we talked about flynn, kushner. but they don't trace back to russia, what happens then? and i think that is a real danger to elm broil us into sort of a larger political debate. on one letter you can't let these crimes go but on the other level if they don't trace back to russia there's going to be a pretty good push back. >> what does happen if let's say in the course of this

investigation the mueller team were to find crimes that were not related directly to the election but then go to things like money launld erg? we've heard plots of stories of donald trump doing business with russia we call them business men who have allegedly tried to launder dirty money through his properties, et cetera if those kinds of crimes are found and they're not directly relate to the election, what happens? >> well, they'll still prosecuted if we're within the stault of limitations, either by robert mueller's team or thool be roord over to the democratic of jupt. we do prosecute serious crimes in this country. the special counsel should focus on the money trail. now, you know, we're not going to do what we did 20 years ago and have the special counsel get involved in the president's sex life, but if it's about money and it's about russians, he's going to pursue it. and the white house has got to stop attacking robert mueller. and i'm getting tired of hearing kellyanne conway and the others attacking robert mueller who is our fbi director when i was in the bush white house. i've been a p republican for 30

years, and many of us are very proud of the service that robert mueller has done for his country over many, many years. and these attacks on the special prosecutor are uncalled for. the policy in the bush white house was not to comment on pending criminal investigations. no comment by the president or anybody else. and they would do themselves an enormous favor if they focused on doing their job and focus on policy while robert mueller does his job. >> and, you know, malcolm you also have "the new york times" reporting on friday that mueller is looking into various things about michael flynn's finances, who was paying him, whether turkey is one of the countries that were paying him. so that's not directly related to russia. but how does the financial entangle wants of this team relate back to russia gate? >> you know, every time i come on i have to explain to people because i've been meeting lots of people who say it's just an fbi investigation. hillary had one. no. it is a national counter intelligence investigation. from june of last year they

started looking for americans who were cooperating, coordinate being, communicating with russian intelligence officers and by extension the kremlin. the first thing that u.s. counterintelligence is going to do is we're going to scrub your little financial world. we're going to throw a circle around you, go back 20 years, and they are going to determine were you picked up in a dangle. that's where they hang out money in front of you or some other inducement. there's suspicious that donald trump's palm beach mansion purchase,ible that was, kaun -- >> for the sale. he got like 50 million more. >> right. he won $50 million profit on that and a building that was raised soon afterwards. that could have been the dangle to see is trump a player. is he the kind of guy that if he with drop money in front of him, he'll do whatever we want. then after that u misuniverse. counterintelligence people assume that about every individual that they meet, whether it was my security clearance, that individual's

security clearance. when they see us, they determine do we have a financial link to a foreign intelligence agency. they must do this. and it explains why he hired one ex-fbi counterintelligence director and 16 financial crime lawyers. >> right. right. and for the republican party, this has been sort of a goredian knot, right, because they want donald trump there to sign the legislation that they want to pass and they want to protect him. you also have "the dallas morning news" reporting that you've got some republicans who have taken money from this or that, be it ukrainian, sort of russia connected person, right. the so they're not exactly clean hands when it comes to taking money from similar kinds of people. and so -- but at the same time, how long can they hang on to a guy whose approval rate, even when you get to republicans is now down at 76%? which sounds high, except that it had been 88%. >> well, you know, i think a lot of people are wondering what's going on with the brand of the republican party with donald trump, because donald trump has

his own brand and i wrote a column basically that said, you know, we've got the golden crusted elephant which is donald trump and then you have the old gray elephant, which is the republican party. who wraps around who? and now, you know, with donald trump's personality, i really think that he is changing the republican party's brand. i don't really think the republican's parties brand is changing donald trump. you remember when he got elected he said, you know, all this is for show, basically chlgt he didn't say that but he said when i get elected i'll be more presidential. i understand. that's not the case. he's still doing his 3:00 a.m. tweets. now, that's fine. that's donald trump. that's who he is. but i'm not so sure that's the republican party. and like i said this before, pundits like me, we go on the shows and we talk. it puts us in a very different, a strange position because we want to protect the president. i mean, this is the president of the united states. he's a republican. and we want to also be respectful and protect the party.

but sometimes they go against each other, so it's almost like ut-oh, do we just choose to go behind him or do we choose to go and take the party? what do we do? >> and at the same time you have a party, you know, that is by wrapping itself around donald trump wrapping itself around this idea that it is actually okay for a campaign, a presidential campaign to seek help not just from a foreign government but from a hostile foreign government. that has been mind blowing, i think, to a lot of republicans. >> well, and it -- i think if we first lay out the fact that donald trump is not part of the republican spectrum, the traditional spec trouble ideologically. but the fact that the republicans are going behind him, it's because they actually want to hold on to power. so they're putting party over country and that is dangerous. and i think that there's a lot of lps that are no longer in office scratching their heads saying what is going on. why aren't you actually standing up to him, especially when increasingly members of your base are telling you that they want governance. and this idea that folks are going after civil servants

because they're leakers, they're because they believe in the institutions in which they serve and they want to put, again, country over party. >> and richard, you are probably the long ers serving member of the republican panel in our panel certainly. is that the disconnect that you feel? because it does feel strange as somebody who is old enough when ronald reagan existed, right, that this posture toward russia that is now sort of washing over the party and part of the base, it is weird. and i wonder, you know, how you sort of receive it as a republican? >> well, i am old enough to remember. i was 12 years old when nixon was forced out of office. and i'll tell you, he did a lot of damage to the republican party. but the damage being done by donald trump is much more severe. the republican party has stood for a strong national defense, has stood for our independence of foreign interference in our elections and in our democracy.

we've also been vigilant about the attempts by the russians to did he stabilize the american political system and also western democracies. and trump is focusing only on one person, donald trump. and he was never really a republican, and he took over our party. a lot of people in the republican party do not support him quietly. they are thinking very seriously about whether mike pence would be a lot better president for the next three, three and a half years, because if we have much more of this, i think we're in very, very serious trouble. >> a little bit of perspective on this. he is a republican in the sense that he understood that the base really wanted policies that go after immigrants, that go after muslims. it's very popular with the base. >> that's not our base. that's not our base. that's not a republican base. that's a racist base of people who for years didn't even vote republican. that is not the base of the

republican party. we don't want those people in the republican party because they're not going to make america great again. they're just going to want to turn this country into a racist, all white dominated regime. and that's not what the republican party is employ. this is a party of abraham lincoln and so i do notment people describing steve bannon, breitbart news and their supporters as the base of the republican matter. >> and yet they've chosen -- they are attached to the party now, notice el. >> well, you know, every cooky group looks for, you know, an attachment to a party. but what the surprising thing for me was the fact that i really believe that donald trump was a moderate. i really kind of believe that he was socially liberal and economically fit on the republican math form conservative. i was very shocked to see about the lgbtq man. >> the transgender ban. >> that's one thing that to me i don't know why, but i really was like what? i mean, i came away wearing the suit of the rid her. this is not the donald trump that a lot of new yorkers knew.

>> right. >> as somebody that was extremely toll rant, especially with ivanka. >> exempt on housing where they can move into his builds. >> but you know what i mean? this was very surprising to me. and i actually thought because of him being more identified to me, with the moderate side of our party that he would -- that we had a chance to kind of pull more of the moderates into the spotlight and change, excuse me, the republican party brand as more of a -- kind of a tolerant, come one, come all. and that we're kind of being more open-minded. and then the lgbt. >> i think it depends on how you experienced him. i think if you were black in the 80s and early 90s and you experienced donald trump you kind of knew this was the guy. >> i was a republican most of my career. you know, i was socially liberal but hard on defense. i mean, i'm right up there with coal lynn powell and we're both flaming liberals now. i mean, the party has shifted to this nativeist base of, you know, from the 1950s and 60s and

they want to go back there. but the worst part is richard parent put it right. there was a time, we're all old enough to remember where the republican party stood for defense. the republican party stood for nato, stood for strong united states. >> strong military, yep. >> interests worldwide and most importantly stood against russia, communist influence. now they adore the exdirector of the kgb, adore him. >> what happened to the, on working man. >> we're looking at donald trump as if he were in a vacuum. he didn't just happen overnight. we had an effort and a propaganda machine that was basically conditioning americans for the last 12, 15 years and helped rise the tea party, which is part of this -- >> what happened to the working man? i mean, the working mab rallied and got behind him. >> they got hyped him. >> i'm going to give you the last word because you didn't get in too much, because i wornld just from the point of view of where you come from, you as well as malcolm, you know, how

destabilizing is it for people who have spent probably their careers fighting against what russia is trying to do to find that the commander in chief, that the guy at the top, he's never said a bad word about vladimir putin and can't seem to? >> that's absolutely right. and joy, we have gone back and force on this on texts and things. the thing that i've always kind of gone back to is the protection of the institutions. and i'm really concerned that what this is is a moment that we're all in a car on the major debegan in august with the kids screaming in the back and bumper to bump irtraffic and there's that tell me taking to go in the break down lane to go around all the traffic and there goes that speeding black car in the break down lane. those institutions function the same way. whether by design, you know, if you're in an institution, you sort of suffer the rules. but you kind of fallback to is that the application of those rules are applied, well, evenly, equally.

and when you see someone like jared kushner who has done things that would disqualify malcolm or i for a security clearance within a heartbeat to get a hard pass, well, that is fundamentally -- doesn't have to be republicans or democrats. it is fundamentally undermining the institutions. it is saying that there are two separate tranchz of rules that the president of the united states can be held to a separate standard and his family can be held to april separate standard but people like malcolm and i are not. and that does have an impact to the institutions, the people that work at them, and that is going to have a lasting damage to this country, whether you're republican or democrat. >> well said, my friend. thank you. this is a great panel. you guys are great. we'll have you all back. thank you. and coming up, the deep state strikes back. ♪ (boy) and these are the lungs. (class) ewwww! (boy) sorry. (dad) don't worry about it.

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why would hr mcmaster allow susan rice, who is investigated for unmasking, like sam an that power, like ben roads, like the general counsel james baker of the fbi, like comey and so many other deep state people, why would he possibly grant a waiver? >> they're looking into this deep state. the fear that there are people within the bureaucracy that are still urban approximating out these leaks, that are working against the president's policy, and they're asking -- >> is mcmaster -- i'll be blunt. is mcmaster one? because it's inexplicable, that decision. >> awe, yes. the dreaded deep state. national security advisor hr mcmaster has become hannity and company's latest tarring. the outrage this time is over a ploom berg report citing two intelligence officials that he

concluded that his predecessor did nothing wrong in the famous unmasking. and another one from protrump outlet circumstance athat mcmaster has allowed rice to keep her security clearance. he has also angered the alt right of his perjury of several of michael flynn's hires from the national security council. who he tried to fire previously only to be overruled by donald trump. in addition to the attacks on mcmaster by the usual trump defenders at fox news like hannity and laura inning gram, as well as anti-muslim activist frank gaff any and, of course, trump con significant larry roger stone, a news site devoted to tracking the tiflt of raugs bots noted a 53100% up particular, 53100%, 5,0003100% up particular in the use of the hashtag fire mcmaster about i russian bots and trolls this week. joining me, republican media strategy.

rick, i'm going to go on this first. you have this coordination here where breitbart went after hr mcmaster and their headline was perjury, mcmaster deeply hostile to really and to trump, trying to paint him as anti-really. interestingly enough, donald trump's reaction to that was a statement in which he said general mcmaster and i are working very well together. he's a good man and very pro really. i'm very grateful for the work he continues to do for our country. what do you make of that? >> well, i think that is a sign of general kelly, general mattis and h.r. mcmaster all forge what they're calling the axis of adults and telling donald trump that the game time is over with this silly inside the white house alt right conspiracy group that has been leaking like crazy to the lunatics on the info wars side of the fence. and it's interesting also that these guys got a push back from the very top. it's caused a great rift inside

of the alt right right now where donald trump has said mcmaster is good with me and i'm with him and all these guys that expected the same games they tried to play all along and moving that up the weird food chain of the alt right to fox and having it blasted out by fox and rush and all those folks, they thought that would keep working. and the grunts have put the praks on these things pretty hard. >> and the interesting thing about it is so you do have mcmaster who had not been able to dislodge watt in this case if people will remember who he is, he is one of the people to have agenda to leak to devon nun easy information trying to an secure the russia gate investigation and help trump out and exonerate him on this charge that president obama had wire tamd trump tower. you do have to ecosystem now, the daily caller putting out a headline everything the president wants to do mcmaster opposes and they claim that they're citing former national

security council officials. but then you have it hit the troll world. there's a troll tracking service that essentially said and it's called security democracy and it shows that today's top messaging priority from the kremlin is fire nsa hr mcmaster. >> yeah. that's clint wats's too many by the way that's now tracking -- >> former fbi agent. >> mr. awesome guy. but most importantly is that what you see now is there is this unspoken alliance between russian intelligence, because that's who runs these trolls. this is what they call the boys from oh linka. they are russian bots that are put out there and they infiltrate and flood data into the united states, into groups that want to see that message. they amplifying messages and they ping-pong messages. mcmaster, whatever he is doing, moscow wants him out of this job. >> yeah. >> they want the steve bannon, jared kushner wing of, you know,

the axis of incompetent i so to speak to go there and push what they want done. but mcmaster, he's a soldier. and like mattis and kelly, and you notice we now have three flag ranked officers who are now running things inside the white house. things can only get more difficult for moscow at this point. so i believe that there is this whole yet work that needs to push the jared kushners and the steve bannons and the bright batter's to the top in order to continue meeting the strategy goals of moscow. >> so is there a real deep state? it's interesting to me, rick, you know, you and i have known each other on twitter for a long time. it seems like back when you and i first started tweet being, there was a liberal -- it was the left that more had this sort of paranoia about the deep state, this idea that there was this sort of embedded permanent military style bureaucracy that was constantly pushing the country toward war, that pushed the country toward the iraq war. and that was the thinking.

then you had the met a, you know, the sort of glen green wald, the wikileaks, thatter ra, the sort of snow den sort of met a. i don't know if they're left or right that said the same thing, we have to fight the deep state. now it has become kind of a toe tell me of what used to be the conservative, the right. what do you make of that migration. >> well, i think the migration that's happened here, particularly on this alt right section of our politics is one that they always feed on the classic, you know, hof steter paranoid style of american politics. there's always sort of an under ping in our culture, our society of concern about unaccountability in government. and the fact that it's moved over to the right tells you a lot. and the fact that they believe the deep state opposes trump for all these ba rocky conspiracy theories, whether it's the international jewish conspiracy, which is always right under the surface of all these things. >> yep. >> in fact, on the cover of the mcmaster webs that they set up,

they go after george soros, you know, basically as the jewish banker controlling mcmaster. all these things that have that paranoid streak in them, they have that deeply freaked out sort of fantasy, this dark fantasy world that doesn't really exist. the folks that are in the deep state are by and large american patriots who are seeing that there's vast russian influence over the trump administration and that there's vast russian connection to the trump administration, and that's why they're speaking out. >> i mean, and part of these -- you have now people that are generally on the left people like me who are saying wait a minute are we now saying that the only hope for the republic at this point is the cia, the nsa and generals that are now infused at the white house. you almost have a faye larynx of military generals inside the white house that the right seize

assist a queue in the making. maybe this is who has to save the republic. >> i really would love to have stemmed back in time and gone back to watch madison and jefferson discuss this in a bar somewhere in philadelphia. they had to have thought at some point we're going to get king george the fourth and he is going to take over as president of the united states and he'll have all three branches of government. what can we do to ensure that? the bureaucracy of the government of the united states is that the continuum that maintained this government since washington. the right alt right right now views the government that puts out your social security checks, that delivers your mail, that comes out and defends you against the horrible muslim terrorist wards that you're always terrified much, that makes your roads are now the enemy. and we are just appreciating government is good. government does stand for us. government, our tax dollars, do have a function, do have a use.

and the sens of the world who want to dismantle that are not the people that we want to continue giving government to. that being said, the secretary of defense mattis put out a memo this week about ethics in the defense department, which everybody should read. and it should be the standard for the white house. obviously it isn't. >> yeah. >> but there you have it. >> we're going to have to get you to tweet that out. malcolm nangs, rick wilson. you guys are great. next up, members of the left come for kamala. stay with us. hello, discover card. hi. can you tell me about these new social security alerts i keep hearing about? sure, just sign up online. then we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky websites. wow. that's cool. how much is it? oh, it's free if you have a discover card. i like free! yeah, we just want you to be in the know. ooh. hey! sushi. ugh. i smell it! you're making me... yeah, being in the know is a good thing.

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i have to ask you since i have you here, are you running for president in 2020. >> well, i joke often that i'm running from the president right

now. the reality is is, look, we've got a real job ahead of us down here in washington throughout this nation with donald trump at the hem, coming after civil rights, voting rights, undermining our health care. this is a full-time job. this is my focus right now. right now my job is being new jersey senator. >> that was a good one. running from the president. all right. for democrats and even some republicans the next presidential election cannot come soon enoughment and with president's approval ratings plunging to new lows the democratic party is in a key position to mobilize for 2020. but the party's rising stars still have an uphill bamgts with progressive infighting and the trump machine working hard to under mine them. so will the next progressive leader in this era of trump be someone like cory booker or maybe his colleague in the senate cam alaharris. are back with me jason johnson. joining me now. all right. let's go around the horn.

because what basically this week, guys, is on monday there was an article that went up the headline of which rising star has a burning land problem. her recent ano, i didn'ting is extremely telling. these doors will line or coffers and she'll have the next two years to craft a message -- she was very upset that she was getting all this treatment. then you have ryan cooper saying similar things saying why leftist don't trust kamala harris. look at that headline. three people of color, blee black democrats. kamala harris is black and asian american and saying they are the problem which set off a whole lot of things. you had a lot of people getting involved. he dpot attacked by several people and then brit any pack in this case came to his defense and said wait a minute, i was in meetings too with bernie sanlders and he had issues talking about race. so now you have the two sides back fighting again. what is happening here? >> well, i think that the

ideological purity that some bernie sanders supporters want to implement in the democratic party is really a manifestation of privilege. people of color who are running are for office can't abide by the purity test because the structural difficulties of running for officials. the bottom line here is you need money to win an election and if kamala harris needs to talk to some big money donors, i'm not opposed to that. i think that we need to give her an opportunity to shine or not shine. >> yeah. >> we shouldn't undercut her before she even begins. >> and you're seeing a lot of people already going in prelitigating her. well, she was a prosecutor so we can't trust her. we think that on prison issues she's bad. literally setting her up and saying she's already unacceptable. >> here is the thing. kamala harris has her own bay hooif who protect her and love her to death. she is the one name that my

friends family saying do you think she's going to run. when you're a state prosecutor there's going some issues. the democrats should be embracing anyone who he list its that level of excitement. if you ask democrats right now it's bernie sanders or cam lal aharris. let her do her job, build her resume up. because the democrats are going to need as many stars as possible to go against trump. >> you've been on both sides of this. the phenomenon in 2004 was genuine. and then you sort of eventually got to the point where you were being attacked by some of the people from the progressive wing saying well, you're establish amment now. so this line gets blurred. is there any pleasing a certain set of progressives who essentially think anyone who isn't bernie sanders is not progressive enough? >> it's not so much about bernie sanders. this has been going on forever in the left. first of all, let's remember the vast majority of bernie sappeders supporters ended up

supporting hillary clinton. >> correct. >> and that's what's going to have to happen every time. we've got to come together. we can't have this stuff. there has always been a section of the left, which i call as the winey party, the party that doesn't really want to win. they just want to be pure. and if they go downswing purely, then that's fine. well, the problem with that is it leaves behind the people who really need their help. if we're going to have a single pair or medicare for all or whatever we're going to have in health care that covers every american, as every other industrial iced country has, then we all have to pull together.

patients with. >> i don't donald trump or hillary clinton so i'm voting third party. thank you very much, now we have president donald trump. and the people who are being most impacts by the policies are people of color and lower income people. and if you are truly progressive, you don't want a president donald trump because you're supposed to care about those margin aliced people. >> these are a lot of appear kafr americans and the future of the democrat party is going to have to be black, female, brown. i hear this all the time from democrats, look, we're going to lose these working class white voters. look, democrats have been losing white voters for years.

>> since lyndon johnson. i wish we had more time. we'll bring you guys back and do it again. up next, the movie that rolling stone calls a hard core masterpiece. i will talk with the stars of detroit when we come back. you're going to be hanging out in here. so if you need anything, text me. do you play? ♪ ♪ use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before. you got next? chase. helping you master what's now and what's next. "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business.

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the aljeers motel tragedy probably isn't something you learned about in school, but the racially charged incident of 1967 still resonates today, and it's depicted in the new film detroit. more on the story and my conversation with the cast next. ♪ ♪ hey, is this our turn? honey...our turn? yeah, we go left right here. (woman vo) great adventures are still out there. we'll find them in our subaru outback. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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can celebrate a life like no other. find out how at sanfranciscodignity.com. it's a war zone out there. they're destroying the city. >> you all seeing this? hey, look, we're not so far from the algiers. let's go there until all this

blows over. >> there you are. why are the police outside righ] >> now let's not be stupid in this situation. you need to tell me where the gun is, i got all night, people. >> the central event in a academy award winning director katheryn bigelow's film, of shocking police brutality in the midst of the riots may be largely forgotten today but the content and the aftermath will feel all too familiar to americans 50 years later. earlier this week i spoke to two of the film starts, algae smith and chris shock. >> so i want to read you the hollywood reporter review of the film "detroit" and it said it is based on real events drama determined to pummel the viewer

with a tough violent episode in annuals that is deeply unsettling. that is to say the least. how do you convince people, i'll start with you algae, your age, to go and see a film that is a deeply unsettling, pommeling, because it is. >> that is a very big review. but i think it is just as easy as saying this is an educational tool and this is a tool about not just white history or black history, this is american hi history and i feel like everyone should know this. this is something i didn't learn in school. i didn't read this in a book. hi to wait until i'm 22 years old to find out the truth and i would simply say this is the truth about america and also this is the tool to use to further our conversation on how to make our justice system better. >> and chris, not just 22 years old and i've considered well read and i cover black lives matter and this is the emit till

narrative and people didn't know it, for you how difficult was it to approach the subject matter and approach this set of facts playing a police officer? >> that is a good question. it is really tough. i tend to be in the roles where you are not quite a sellout, but you are the guy that is just kind of following the rules, you are just the everyday guy getting the job done and then it triggers into something terribly tragic. an it issa tough thing to take on. i will be the dude and the slave that said no. no, i will probably get hit one time and it is like sorry. so it is a tough role to jump into. >> and the role that you play, algae, it is incredibly impactful because your character has so much talent and you do the singing in the film yourself. >> thank you. >> and this is an incredibly talented young man and hopeful with all of the dreams and to watch it beaten down over the course of an hour and a half. how difficult was it to play

that role. >> it was very difficult. one, because i've never experienced that type of brutality if my life before. so i was just trying to get myself to a glimpse where i felt like larry actually was. but you are right, it is so just heartbreaking to see how he had so much -- he's so humanized in the beginning with his dream and the passion and then as you see, he gets so dehumanized and you wonder how someone's spirit could be broken that much. >> and larry, these are real people, have you heard from him or his family and had responses to your portrayal of him. >> yeah. yeah, so me and larry, we have a good relationship. we talk every now an then. but the first time i met him was about a week from being done with shooting the whole film and he walked into his house and he would bust out laughing at my face and he said, you got this. you going to play me real good and they did good on you. and he let me see the gashes that he had on his body and the cracks of the skull and the memorabilia he had. >> and the controversy is while the portrayals are brilliant

african-american actors, the film is directed by katheryn bigelow and a white woman and written by a white writer. how do you respond to that criticism? >> it is interesting, i would normally have such a big issue with it but dr. dyson, and i said this the other day -- >> dr. eric dyson. >> he is amazing and said what better use of privilege than to honorably tell a story and tell it with the ultimate truth, which she is known for doing. we've seen katheryn bigelow's film and she's so delicate and honest and opens up her privilege and humanity to tell it and it feels like it is from a brown skin perspective and let me move my stuff out of the way to tell this story. so she is doing what we want people to do, to tell all of the truths. >> and as somebody who yourself is pursuing the dream of music, it is ironic you were in this

role of a young man who had the musical -- you do it in real life. did thattin form the way you approach this role. >> it did. it made it easier. i feel like the music gives a sense of tranquillity and it takes away from the chaos. >> and it does. because you know something bad is coming. this can't last. >> yeah. but it helped me a lot and that gets me through the music part. that was so fulfilling to be in the theater and be able to sing and do all -- all of the fellas and be able to just do that and brick in that part to the film. >> and that is your real voice. to let the world know this young man really can sing. check him out on itunes. it is so great meeting you and i had a friend text me about the film and said i don't know if i could do because she's from michigan but i would say see the film, it is worth the pain to have the experience.

>> thank you. good luck in all of your careers. thank you. detroit is in major theater nationwide right now. and before we go, we would like to wish a very happy belated birthday to former president barack obama who turned 56 years young on friday. the former first lady michelle obama celebrated the man she called a phenomenal guy with a throw-back photos of the family. obama's bff for life and former vice president joe biden thanked him for his service and for his friendship. and of course lots of celebrities also sent the former potus best wishes. zandia tweeted happy birthday to the fliest to ever do it. and our good friend george detaye spoke for many when he tweeted happy birthday to president obama whose grace and thoughtfulness and compassion we miss every day. we'll just let that marinade for

a moment because i think a lot of people feel that way. that is our show for today. thank you for tuning in. we hope you will come back and join us tomorrow at 10:00 eastern for more "am joy." and in the meantime, you know what to do. keep it right here on msnbc because we're the place for politics. during our made to move 2017 clearance event, you can do endless online research. or, you can take advantage of our best offer ever on an xt5. don't wait. our 2017 models will be moving fast. you can drive a car... or you can drive a cadillac. come in now before the end of our made to move 2017 clearance event and leave with the perfect cadillac xt5 for your next adventure. choose a low mileage lease on this xt5 for around $339 per month.

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