to him. i think you noticed pence using trump's buzz words, including fake news. they haven't wanted a correction from the times nor disputed facts that he has a very busy calendar. >> thank you. always appreciate your political insights. that's the beat. i'll be back tomorrow. "hardball" start now. >> full steam ahead. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. today is the 200th day of donald trump's presidency. it is like many who have come before it. from the president a twitter tirade. trump firing off a number of tweets addressing a litany of issues, everything from defechbding his working vacation to once again calling the russia investigation a hoax.

but with each passing day, the investigation seems like it might be picking up steam. nbc news is reporting that special counsel robert mueller is issuing grand jury subpoenas to get records and documents related to the investigation. this weekend, rod rosenstein, in charge of overseeing, he provided public protection and granting him wide latitude to investigate any crime, his words there, any crime he uncovers during the investigation. here is rosenstein on fox news sunday. >> the special counsel is subject to rules and regulations of the department of justice. we don't engage in fishing expeditions. >> if he finds evidence of a crime, can he look at that? >> chris, if he finds evidence of a crime, that is in the scope of what director mueller and i have agreed is part of the investigation, then he can. if it is something outside the scope then he needs to come to the acting attorney general, at this time, me. >> it is ucnclear if the president will allow that.

last month president trump warning that any investigation outside the scope of russia would cross a red line to him. here he is talking to "the new york times." >> mueller was looking at your finances, your family's finances, unrelated to russia. is that a red line? >> would that be a breach of what his actual -- >> i would say yes. >> for weeks the president and his allies have been leading a campaign to disqualify robert mueller and his investigation. just yesterday the president's close friend and ally, newt gingrich, tweeted this. quote, president trump got 68.6% in west virginia. 4.8% in washington, d.c. guess where mueller has a grand jury? guess how biassed it will be? and here is kellyanne conway counsellor to the president yesterday. >> we will continue to cooperate with bob mueller in his investigation. we just hired the 16th person. many of them are democratic donors. we will continue to cooperate

and comply. >> for more now, joined by former fbi special agent clint watts. jennifer rogers, u.s. district attorney for southern new york. and former reporter for the new york times. and jennifer, let me start from you, pr a prosecutor standpoint, if you were in bob mueller's shoes and you are doing this investigation as special counsel and you heard senior official at the justice department, rod rosenstein who has the power to step in there and deny you latitude, and step in and take you off the case, if you heard him making the comments we just played yesterday, how as a special prosecutor to special counsel would you interpret that? >> it sounds like what he is saying is they have an agreement they have spoken at length about the parameters of the investigation and rosenstein says they are on the same page about it. i think mueller knows he has a job to do. he needs to gather facts, find out what happens here. if he does find information that takes him outside of the scope of what he and rosenstein discussed, i assume he will go

back to rosenstein and expand the investigation. i think he has free latitude at this time to go into not only russian stuff directly but collateral issues -- >> the is up text, this is donald trump, donald trump's allies. they've made it clear. they don't have much regard for bob mueller. they are very suspicious of this investigation. making all sorts of critical comments. if you're on the case, if you're that special prosecutor, did you read from the tone, from the content of what he said yesterday, would you say this is a guy whole have my back if it comes to it. if you're a prosecutor, how would you read it? >> i think rosenstein has been supportive of mueller. i think yesterday's comments were supportive. he has a job to do. he knows what the job is. i know what job is. he will be allowed to do his job. i think he is supported by that. >> clinton, news here of subpoenas request for records, request for documents, you've been on the investigative side of this. what's your read? it can be very vague in terms of what is in the public square. but from an investigative

stachbd point, what's your read on what's going on in terms of the subpoenas? >> yeah, you start with documents and hard evidence. communications and finances. that then guides the rest of your investigation. they are using it very smart strategy. going where the leads are taking them. start with the hard evidence before you start bringing in witnesses and wanting to question them. i think that's a logical step and one we will see go on for quite sometime. i think the public needs to be aware this is a very slow process. >> we will roughly did you have a sense of what that means? will it take a while? are we talking months? more than year? >> months before we get to the point where they are talking to witnesses. i think the only witnesses they might talk to earlier are those that are cooperating or someone whose statement they want to lock in on the investigation. meaning that maybe they have something on somebody. or it turned up in records they've been polling. they bring them in first to get their statement, lock their testimony in. find the next avenue they want to take the investigation after that. >> and nick, on the politics,

the tweet from newt gingrich, he is accusing mueller thereof i guess shopping for a jury potential that will be politically hostile to the president? i don't know why you would stage any kind of jury proceeding in western virginia and not in washington, d.c. just given the nature of this thing but politics of what trump, what white house what his allies are trying to do with the tax like that. >> phone shl obstruction in washington, to see if it happened anywhere. if it happened in west virginia, what you sigh here is the president and his allies trying to muddy up the investigation before it gets started to cast doubt on it and to take the understandable feeling of a supporter that hasn't been supported or recognized and harns that to tarnish an investigation that is just beginning. it is only just beginning. >> while president trump lobs criticism at the investigation and mueller, deeming more than nothing of a hoax, his lawyers are trying to take a more

tempered tone. lawyers and spokespeople for president trump appear to be lowering the temperature on the russia investigation. talking more respectfully about special counsel bob mueller. making noises about cooperation. jennifer, what do you make of that? newt gingrich, not on the president's legal team. this is a political ally. newt gingrich is out there casting all sorts of doubt in mueller. they say the legal team is starting to look at this differently. is that significant? >> i think it is. i think it is very smart. they had marc kasowitz who is not a criminal lawyer and not lowering the temperature in any way. then they brought in ty cobb who has prosecution experience and is a white collar defense lawyer. that's what you want, someone who knows the business and knows what you're doing and knows you want a good relationship with the people on the other side. at some point you will negotiate with them about testimony, documents, and maybe about a preceding if it gets filed. i think is very wise of the new lawyers to kind of lower that

temperature and make nice with mueller's team as much as they can. >> does that carry into what jennifer was just saying about cooperation, about trying to have at least a cooperative tone in terms of the white house and in terms of investigators? so when donald trump thinks this is a bogus investigation, if donald trump doesn't trust mueller and mueller and his people are coming to the white house saying we want documents on this and we want documents on that, before it gets to the subpoena point, do you think you will have a white house that's cooperating more now that it's turning stuff over? how much can donald trump disrupt it if he wants to? >> what is ultimately more confusing about this is why you would want to damage america in this way. you have a president going out there and trying to discredit different institutions in the u.s. government. he attacked doj, fbi, intelligence community and now you know special counsel mueller's investigation. who is that good for ultimately other than trump? if it is about america first, then you aren't taking down or tearing down institutions. americans lose faith. other part is every time he goes out publicly and tweets about

this, or intervenes on behalf of his son's personal statement about a trump tower meeting that trump claims he doesn't know about and his son claims he doesn't know about it. he expand the investigation. he creates openings for investigators to pursue. i'm sure ty cobb is wondering, why do you keep talking about this because you were expanding the investigation which you were a victim of. you're not a victim if you create opening. >> if the white house legal team is looking at this and saying we better not be antagonizing mueller, we better be as cooperative and friendly as possible, is that at all connected to what donald trump does in terms of his posture? are we seeing any signs, in evidence this new caution that the legal team apparently has is going to rub off at all on donald trump? >> small signs of evidence. a statement of support for sessions which i think was prompted in part by what clinton was saying. look, i think donald trump is a terrible client for his lawyers in this circumstance. he goes after judges, after the

prosecutors. the best case scenario for donald trump right now is that bob mueller does an investigation free and fairly, is unimpeded and gives him a clean bill of health. that is the best case scenario. and by doing these attacks, he is inviting more scrutiny of how this process unfolds and he is stiffening opposition on the hill. he is creating enemies in his own party on the hill who are getting together to block him from an end run around mueller. >> jennifer, let me ask you. as a prosecutor, nick says, best case is mueller looks at this and gives him a clean bill of health. correct me if i'm wrong, i'm thinking anecdotally, when have you the big independent investigations, there used to be independent counsel, now they call it special counsel, do you ever get a clean bill of health when you put this many resources, this much latitude behind it. even if they don't find the thing they set out looking for, they always turn up something, don't they? >> they might. it is not entirely clear. the statute is a different statute than mueller is

operating under. mueller is a guy with a lot of integrity. most people think he wouldn't go beyond the confines of what he is supposed to look at. where there's smoke, there's fire often. i think they may find things especially collateral issues like obstruction and the like. i don't think mueller is on a fishing expedition. i don't think he will go well beyond what he is supposed to do. i'm not sure they will find anything no matter what if they keep digging. >> senator richard blumenthal, he became one of the president's twitter targets today. blumenthal appeared on cnn to voice support for the ongoing investigation into russia and its meddling in 2016 election. this is what he said. >> there is no minimizing or underestimating that attack by the russia and potential collusion by the trump campaign. then op struks obstruction of j. that investigation must be pursued. >> president trump was apparently watching. he tweeted quote, interesting to watch senator richard blumenthal of connecticut talk about hoax russian collusion when he was a

phony vietnam con artist. the president was referring to 2010 campaign issue regarding blumenthal's military service. blumenthal suggested he served in vietnam. he had not served in vietnam. senator blumenthal responded to the president's tweeting saying this, mr. president, your bullying hasn't worked before and it won't work now. no one is above the law. president trump was not having it. he tweeted out late this afternoon, i think senator blumenthal should take a nice long vacation in vietnam where he lied about his service so he can at least say he was there. nick, you talked a minute ago about the president and republican senators and getting some indication of republican senators wanting to make sure mueller is able to complete his job and the investigation is not stopped in any way. a guy like blumenthal, though, does this have any -- i mean, look, he stood up in response this afternoon but blumenthal was embarrassed by the thing. he was caught saying he served

in vietnam, and he hadn't. >> he apologized on the spot very quickly. i can think of the things the president said that has not apologized for quickly or at all. this is the president blowing off steam. he is mad. mad at everything right now. he has been told by his lawyers don't attack prosecutors. don't do it, don't it. so steams comes out in different directions on cable tv. the president is in a twitter war with a senator over things that are on cable tv. amazing. >> i think there was a report in roll call this afternoon saying, blumenthal, attorney general for connecticut of 25 years before going to the senate. maybe there was overlap there with trump's business interest. portfolio that blumenthal had in connecticut real estate. may be a longer story. we have to cut it short. thanks to all of you for joining us and still ahead, president trump says his base is growing stronger. if you look at his rallies, you might think he is ripe but if you take a look at latest poll

numbers it does not support his kies. when we come back, we will put trump's a claim to the test. plus, is there a split developing among republicans? six months into the trump presidency, there are new reports that republicans, including vice president mike pence, might be making moves towards the 2020 presidential election. that's supposed to be trump's reelection year. pence calling the report offensive. but trump is struggling to reunite his party in some ways. why can't the trump white house keep a communications director? maybe the problem is the president himself who functions as his own defacto communications director, 140 characters at a time. finally, "hardball" roundtable will be here with three things i don't know. this is "hardball" where the action is. award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine.

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welcome back. one of the largest suppliers of apple is supposedly opening a new multibillion dollar research development plant in michigan. south china morning post, paper in hong kong, first reported the move on sunday but the company put out a statement only confirming that they are are considering that investment in michigan. this comes just two weeks after president trump announced that fox con would be opening a $10 billion plant in wisconsin. the question is does this help the president in the key invu industrial states, the places he promised to bring back more jobs. susan, thanks for joining us. trump says i'm bringing jobs back. some believed him, thought it was clans worth taking. been 30 years since a republican won out there. he pulled it off. what's your sense of this story? are there jobs involved here in i know we are getting conflicting reports in terms of

what foxconn is saying. do you have a sense if this is real, if these jobs are coming? >> there are conflicting reports. but certainly our governor, rick snyder, has been hinting at this. overseas in china, met with the foxconn chairman. i think there is expectation that something is coming here. donald trump could use is good news in michigan because his poll numbers slipped to the low 40s. >> this is the bottom line question. this is why we are are asking because we're interested in the states that swung toward trump and made the difference. the question is, can you keep him? we will talk more about this later. but if this happens, if foxconn comes to michigan with the jobs, you mentioned rick snyder the republican, are folks in michigan going to say hey, this is donald trump delivering? or are they saying this is rick snyder delivering? >> i think he would be more likely to credit the president.

our governor slis a lame duck. he will be terminated out in 2018. i wouldn't be surprised to see donald trump if the jobs do come our way. >> a quick break here. on the other side, president trump's nationwide approval rating looks like it's suffering these days. but is his base actually getting stronger and if so, what would be driving that? we will have a debate ahead. you're watching "hardball." out . and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen by funding scientific breakthroughs, advancing public policy, and providing local support to those living with the disease and their caregivers. but we won't get there without you. visit alz.org to join the fight. "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours.

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the reason why democrats only talk about the totally made up russia story is because they have no message. they don't talk about the all-time high stock market. or about manufacturing jobs we're bringing back to america. by the hundreds of thousands. >> welcome back to "hardball."

that's president trump touting at a rally in west virginia last week. that speech one day before he better than expected jobs report showing the economy adding 209,000 jobs in july. the president osh there echoed sentiments in tweets this morning writing the trump base is far bigger and stronger than ever before despite phony fake news polling. look at rallies in pennsylvania, iowa, ohio, and west virginia. fake news russian collusion story, records stock market, border security, military strength jobs, supreme court pick, economic enthusiasm, deregulation and so much more have driven the trump base even closer together. we'll never change. trump may argue they are growing stronger but the numbers show differently. axios shows low numbers when it comes to his base. this is a republican affairs

team. the number of voters in florida, wisconsin, pennsylvania, ohio, a strong view of president trump drops from 35 percent in april to 2 t9% now. among republicans that also dropped from 54% to 45%. white house senior adviser kellyanne conway acknowledged the president's support may be slipping. she blamed it on the fiction of the russia investigation. >> his approval rating among republicans and conservative trump voters is down slightly. it needs to go up. they are telling him just enact your program. and don't worry about all the distractions and diversions and discouragement that others who are still trying to throw logs in your path are throwing your way. the entire russia investigation is a hypothetical. the president has called it a fiction, total fabrication to excuse the colossal and unwanted defeat of hillary clinton in last year's election. >> but "the washington post" greg sergeant suggesting the russia investigation may be exactly why trump is seeking to rally the faithful.

he writes in an op-ed title as mueller closes in trump prepares his base for the worse. amid revelations, trump quote seeks to rally supporters behind the idea that it is accountability by civic institutions but rather an effort to steal the election from him and from them. for more now, i'm joined by joel, former senior adviser to hillary clinton's 2016 campaign and hugh hewitt and msnbc host and political analyst. little bit from the left and right here. joel, i'll start with you. big picture question of donald trump. he is out there saying my base is stronger than ever. we look at numbers and say we know his overall approval rating is not good right now and we also look at numbers that say when you look at his voters, it's not that good. i've got to say, i think back it a year ago, i think back to the campaign, i was looking at numbers everyday. you look at plenty of numbers. we saw the same thing. we saw signs throughout the campaign he was doing terribly overall and he was having problems in his base. then in an election day

something else happened. so i guess it is a bigger picture question to me. how can we be sure with trump and what numbers mean? >> i think you can be sure. he is out there by himself. he is president of the united states. able to dominate the news cycle in a way with nobody, no opponent out there firing at him the way you are in a campaign. there is a lot of back and forth. you are running negative ads. damage is self inflicted. i see numbers beyond his approval and disapproval ratings. in a couple of polls that are even more problematic. you now have 1 in 5 republicans in quinnipiac poll recently that said he's not honest. you have 1 in 5 republicans in the economist poll who says he doesn't care about people like me. those are terrible numbers for republican president and you look at the numbers on each of those metrics with independents, it's majority now. you can't create a governing coalition with those kinds of numbers and those are self-inflicted wounds. >> let me ask you about some of the numbers that joel was just talking about. this is what i've been

wondering, about the republican base, about the trump base. i remember seeing devastating numbers from even with republicans in the 2016 campaign. and the question it raises to me from your standpoint and maybe can you speak to this is there so type of republican out there, who doesn't particularly like donald trump, doesn't necessarily think he is all this good of a guy, but thinks he is sort of there, i don't know, their vehicle in a broader almost cultural fight that is bigger than politics. >> i think that's part of it, steve. there is something called social desirability bias which i'm sure joel and you know a lot more about than i do. it is simply the atmosphere in which people are less forthcoming about what they really believe. i think secretary clinton's new book "what happened" when it comes out, the best title i've seen in a long time, i'm still trying to digest what happened. if i can just use one example and ask you and joel, how to explain this. trumbull county, my home county in ohio, voted for al gore by 60%. by john kerly by 60%.

president obama twice by 60%. secretary clinton got less than 45%. what the hell happened? i think in the upper midwest, upper mississippi valley, there is a story in the washington examiner, the same thing happened. massive unanticipated shifts. those people haven't shifted away from trump. i think the president stands for a complete rejection of the political clasp of left and right. he is kind of like the dragon in "game of thrones." just turn the table over. and i don't know that we can fully trust these numbers to tell us anything yet. >> and joel, i got to say, big picture, what hugh is raising there, where i've been since the election is trying to figure this out. because i think we sod mahad so ways of analyzing and understanding politics in political campaigns and by any of the historical or traditional measurements he was a dead candidate walking on election day. you just take that access hollywood story a few weeks

before the election. multiply that by 10 in terms of the number of issues he hit. you had 65% of the people saying he wasn't competent. 65% saying he wasn't qualified to be president. and he still is on election day and there is that movement. >> candidates in that race steve who had historically high unfavorable ratings for presidential candidates. unprecedented. both under water. both of them, he was at about 60% unfavorable. entire campaign, hillary clinton was over 50% unfavorable. yet when you look at, you know, talking about, you make a good point about some of the states. but remember, he won white nop college voters on election day by historic amount. i think ronald reagan is the last one -- >> 39 points. >> if you look at his favorable rating right now among white noncollege voters it is 43 favorable and about 57 unfavorable. this is a massive shift. this is not a minor shift. i think it is because you got stop focussing on top line

numbers. >> i guess the question i'm asking you is he had bad numbers with voters in terms of what they thought of him during the campaign. >> you were running in race against another candidate with high unfavorable ratings and two third party candidates who polled about 8% of the vote. remember across three states, wisconsin, pennsylvania, and michigan, i should remember them off the tip of my tongue. we lost by 77,000 votes. 38,000 people vote differently. we have a different president. that's how small the margin was despite his delusional notion he won some historic win. >> hugh, let me ask you from that standpoint, then, because this is one of the interpret racin tags /* /- interpretations out there. joel just said within 77,000 votes. three states. it was hillary clinton. hillary clinton had almost as bad numbers as donald trump if the democrats just don't nominate hillary clinton again they make up those 77,000 votes. what do you say to that? >> it's possible.

the stun was so palpable in november that i'm still recovering from it. i was as wrong as everybody else. that's why i'm so hesitant to come up with other not than the fact he was a media strike on american politics and remains a very potent force out there. if democrats nominate someone with just high favorables. a lot will be written and she's got amazing positives. that would be a tough race. but i point to 538 today, analysis from nate silver, if democrats carry every congressional seat that clinton carried and district and all those that donald trump carried by less than 3%, they still aren't taking the house back and they lose five net senate seats. there's a bifurcation in american politics. i think comes back to obamacare. i really do. i believe people have lost money with which to live their lives as a result of this disastrous policy. that it will come down to an argument over 15 months about who is advancing the right agenda for working class

americans and thus far the democrats have not articulated one. donald trump, that foxconn story you brought up, that is a huge deal in wisconsin and michigan. if he repeats it in pennsylvania and ohio, the trump coalition will stand as strong as it was in youngstown two weeks ago where the building was packed and the line long outside. >> this is a discussion for another time. i think there is another one here, just about what makes a good candidate. i can remember in the run up to 2004, every democrat said they today nominate john kerry because he was a strong candidate, a veteran. after the election he looked very different. what looks like a strong candidate now may not after they go through rough and tumble. thanks to both of you for joining us. up next, north korea lashing out over new u.n. sanctions. vowing to retaliate against the united states. how big after threat does north korea and its missiles actually pose to the u.s. mainland. this is "hardball" where the action is. ♪

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welcome back to hard ball. trump is facing a crisis with north korea. north koreans tested an intercontinental missel that experts say could reach the united states mainland. in response, united nations security unanimously approved new sanction owns saturday against the regime of kim jong-un. the measure even had support of russia and china. there was a statement from government calling sanctions a

violent of its sovereignty. we will make the u.s. pay by a thousand fold for all the heinous crimes it commits against the state and people of this country. so where is this crisis heading? nicholas burns is former undersecretary of state for political affairs and former ambassador to nato. thank you for joining us. bottom line question here in terms of north korea having the potential to inflict physical harm on the united states, do you have a sense of how close they are to being able to do that? >> it's unclear, steve. most experts think there may be a year or two or three away from this capacity to have a nuclear weapon. icbm with a nuclear warhead on top. that could reach the western united states and western canada. the trump administration said, quite right, that's an unacceptable threat. we can't live with that threat. you saw the vote over the weekend and the administration did a good job on that. but it'll be tough to convince the north koreans to stand down.

i cannot see a scenario where they give up their nuclear weapons. >> so play this out then. have you china going along with these sanction answers china has their own interest. keeping the regime under place in north korea, keeping what they see as stability i guess, not a refugee crisis, so china, do they even have going forward, you have to vote for this in the u.n., going forward, do they play any roll in enforcing this? >> that remains to be scene. chinese are not happy with the north korean regime. chinese do not want a war on the peninsula. don't want a war on south korea or japan, major trading partners. they understand what that would mean. united states has 25,000 troops just below the demilitarized zone north of seoul. so the u.s. strategy under president trump i think has been good so far. they said the threat is impossible from north korea. north korea standing down with the ballistic missile test, lean awni ing on china. chinese don't like the north

korean regime but they understand the scenario where there is so much pressure on north koreans that they may collapse. they don't want to see a democratic united peninsula aligned with the united states. they are not going to be able to provide the leverage that we need, unfortunately. >> this afternoon, president trump tweeted this, quote, the fake news media will not talk about the importance of the united nations security counsel's 15-0 vote in favor of sanctions on north korea. we are talking about it here, others are as well. let me ask you from this standpoint, you've got the sanctions right now. very unclear whether this is going to work. you have, as you say, this absolute determination by north korea to get this capability to get these weapons. look, if the sanctions don't work, is there any alternative short of military action that could keep north korea from having nuclear capability it says it wants? >> two points. there's another sanctions step the u.s. could take. a big one. secondary sanctions. the u.s. could say, we will sanction companies and countries

that do business with north korea. that's a risk because you will alienate a lot of countries in asia but it shows the seriousness of the united states. i don't see a military option right now. not with more than 10 million civilians in seoul just below a demilitarized zone. and because of the fact north korea has nuclear weapons. frankly best we can do right now is to end negotiations that may take place, could take place, convince them to freeze their nuclear testing and ballistic missile testing in research. eventually it may be in the united states' interest in a couple of months if the north koreans don't test ballistic missiles or nuclear tests to have talks with the north koreans. it is not being kind of them to have talks. it is actually helping us to ascertain, is there an agreement out there that could freeze them in place that we buy some time to deal with this very difficult problem. >> all right. ambassador nick burns, thank you for the time. appreciate it. >> thank you.

>> up next, according to the "new york times," there is widespread uncertainty among republicans when it come to the question of whether donald trump will even be on the ballot in 2020. but how true are rumors that other republicans, including trump's vice president, are already looking into possible runs of their own? stay tuned for that. you're watching "hardball." so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing)

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welcome back to "hardball." as president trump marks 200 days in office, there are new signs of division within his party. the "new york times" reports that a republican shadow campaign for 2020 has taken shape as trump doubts have grown. mike pence's schedule is so full of political events, there is joking he is acting as second term vice president hoping to clear the field than over six months ago. the article called quote categorically false saying under statement that today's article in the new york times is

disgraceful and offensive to me, my family and our entire team. meantime, new york times also reports that conservative bill cri crystal has begun informal conversations about not renominating the president. tara, evan, katelynn, katelynn, let's start with you. they were not too happy in the president's office. saying mike pence is do an awful lot of political work out there, trying to make sure set candidate. one thing we know for sure, donald trump doesn't like this kind of story. >> exactly. way is going to say, i think that statement was geared towards donald trump himself saying, look, i'm not doing this out of -- what's really interesting here is you don't take the job of vice president because you want to be vice president. right? most people envision themselves in that role eventually. and by law, you could be become

president one day. what is interesting about this though, is of course how early it is. but also mike pence is in contrast to donald trump in so many ways. so loyal to the party. knows how these things work. knows how you have to gear up for these sorts of things. he's kind of been running a counter presidency if you will in some cases. we saw him visiting former soviet countries last week talking tough on russia. presenting an alternate message or tougher message than the president was. you have seen him distance himself in some respects. remember when the don junior stuff came out. he said, i wasn't part of the campaign that time, releasing that statement. but is also remaining loyal to him. >> let me get to the part zans do sans /* /- part zans down here. why do i feel we are having the same conversation. what i mean is this, in the campaign during primaries, it was okay, republicans are going to consolidate the nontrump republicans will consolidate and

produce paul ryan as last-minute nominee. they go to the convention, unbound delegates will stop donald trump right there. that is going to be the thing that was going to happen. or in the fall, when the access hollywood tape came out, guess what, donald trump has it leave the race right now. it is mike pence. they will pick someone else. there is always a scenario it seems, evan, where the republican party is about to regain control over donald trump. seems like something we have seen a thousand times before. why is this any different? >> i don't think this is any different. i think bill crystal's group is just folly. i think what is doing a good job of dividing the party is president trump. he h he's been weak on everything. hasn't provided leadership. republicans are tired of answering for his tweets. if they want to talk health care they have to say, you will probably ask them about the latest crazy thing the president tweeted. that suction the oxygen out of the room and republicans are frustrated. they don't have the white house that is really working with them

or producing any sort of results. so we really don't see him as a powerful president. >> it just feels, tara, like a disconnect. trump has been a disconnect between republican elets, whatever you want to call them, elected official answers republican voters. republican voters know this is what they were getting when they voted for him. >> trump's base isn't going anywhere. i know people are reporting the numbers are slip aeng this is happening, trump's base is with trump. if trump runs for reelection, barring any kind of really, really super extreme thing from happening, because already big extreme things already happened, barring anything completely out of orbit, donald trump, if he runs for reelection, his base will be with him. they will be mad if someone primaries him. while i do think mike pence is run shagd w running a shadow campaign. the house is on fire. i don't think that is all on pence. i don't see him primarying donald trump. i see him biding his time,

waiting in the wings, eye long with a bunch of other republicans too, i might add, in case something happens, impeachment or something like that. >> open question to the panel here. can anybody think of any republican out there who is likely or just plauzabsibly goi to challenge donald trump in 2020? is there name we can put out there s there? i said kasich could barely win at home. >> kasich seems to be the only one make those moves and without fear. as you pointed out, he didn't win. you have republicans, pence's, tom cotton. remember tom cotton was during iowa during the campaign. no one thought trump would win. knows guys have been very loyal to donald trump. then the ben sasses of the world who never wanted to he is port him any way. to your point earlier is that there is also a disconnect between republicans in washington and elsewhere and the state parties. talk to state party chairs thp they are are happy with trump. you heard the republican party

chair in iowa. yelling at ben sass for criticizing the president. i think there will be more of that. >> there is a gop that has been quietly raging. >> not too quiet. >> it is. because we lost from march or pardon me from december 2015 to march 2017 the republican party contracted we lost 23% of republicans age 18 to 29. that coincides with the rise of trump. there are some younger who don't feel there is a place for them at the table. i think the party contract aid mong other generations. while you see the mo more alt-right, claiming those people along like myself, bill crystals and others. >> i think there is an undertone and a lot of us thinking among leaders and spilling over and just waiting for donald trump to pack it up and go away. i think you have to reach a

point, and i don't think he will go away any time soon. roundtable is staying with us. they aren't going away. up next, commentator enjoying trump tv to deliver real news. critics are pushing back. does it help him manage the message he is trying to sell his base. this is "hardball," where the action is. you don't let anything

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prevagen. the name to remember. welcome back to "hardball." the trump campaign launched a so-called real news series on the president's facebook page. while president trump still needs an official white house communications director, the associated press jonathan la mere points out that trump is the leading expert in the final word on what and how he communicates with the public. despite the most media coverage as fake news and personally insulting members of the media he has inserted himself into the white house's press operations and unprecedented fashion for a president. we are back with tara evan and katelynn. tara, with donald trump, we were talking about this earlier with the mueller investigation. we have all of the discipline you want in the white house but if that's not going to stop the

president from going out there when he feels like it or urked and firing off 20 tweets the same thing applies when it comes to communications message. you can have the most disciplined operation in the world if donald trump wakes up in the wrong mood and he is holding that phone in his hand, all bets are off. >> if you think donald trump thinks set best communications strategist out there and you think he is better than everyone and for a long time he was able to control, he still controls the story but even before he entered politics for decades donald trump made himself part of the news cycle. so he feels like that's how he, that's how he survived a lot of business losses was that banks said hey we will still support you if you continue the market the product and installed other people to run his business. something a lot of people don't know. he knows that that saved him and saved him throughout his career. this ability to garner media coverage. there is no way he will let up on that or allow someone to control his media. >> it feels to me, evan, like an ingredient with trump where what we would call typically in

politics being on message, message discipline, sticking to the script whatever you want to call it, he equates that with boring and equates boring with sort of death, political death. >> he has come up and he thinks it is all ratings and what covers you get. he came up and mastered the press of new york. but the tabloid press, new york daily news and new york post. always craved the "new york times" as attention and for them to take him seriously. and he is going out and every off base tweet that he goes out and pushes, gets that attention and he loves the attention. and then he gets upset when people say maybe he should stop tweeting. the problem a lot of republicans have isn't the fact he tweets, it is what he tweets. if you were able to focus that, we have a lot more results. he never even tried to help pass the bcra or any of these other things. we see it happen again in tax reform. we will see it happen again with the budget. >> that is something interesting about him too. for all the media bashing, all the going after all of the elite media, he still gives those interviews to new york times. i think there is something

there. he's been the tabloid guy of new york. he want to talk and be taken seriously by the no, new york times. he wants the stamp of approval. very interesting psychological story with our president. up next, these guys will tell me three things i don't know. that won't be hard to do. you're watching "hardball." shawn evans: it's 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day.

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is a true reflection of the individual. only a dignity memorial professional can celebrate a life like no other. find out how at sanfranciscodignity.com. we are back with the "hardball" roundtable. tara, tell me something i don't know. >> google manifesto that came out with the google employee saying women are inferior and

that's why there are not as many women software engineers. >> standing up to the president on the fda resignation and many are showing through ignoring the white house that it is going to be a lame buduck presidency already. >> retirements that might come out from congress. we saw a few announcing for governor. keep an eye on that. >> thank you. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight, on "all in." >> hopefully you'll be so proud of your president. >> 200 days in, a rage tweeting president tries to shore up his base. >> the approval rating among republicans and trump voters is down slightly. it needs to go up. >> tonight why president trump is lashing out amid reports his vice president is already gunning for his job. and may interview with the senator targeted in trump's twitter tirade. then -- >> if he finds evidence of a crime,