and the administration prior and this administration have been asking medical schools to adopt it but what's an easy fix? the government gives billions of dollars in low interest rate loans to students going to medical school. one change, you can only get that loan that goes to the medical school with a required course, how long would it take, three-quarters of the schools would have a required course. >> we have to let that be the last word but i thank you so much for what you have done and for coming out and talking to us and bertha, thanks to you as well. that's going to do it for this hour. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00. president trump today rolled out locked and loaded as his latest rhetorical salvo in the nuclear brinkmanship between the united states and north korea. after yesterday complaining that his promise of fire and fury may not have gone far enough, he

ratcheted up his language suggesting that the united states military is poised to strike. let's put that tweet up for you. quote, military solutions are now fully in place, locked and loaded should north korea act unwisely. hopefully kim jong un will find another path. moments ago, peter alexander asked the president about that tweet. >> what do you mean by the military solutions or locked and -- are locked and loaded as it relates to north korea? >> i think it's pretty obvious. we are looking at that pretty carefully and i hope that they are going to fully understand the gravity of what i said and what i said is what i mean. so hopefully they'll understand, peter, exactly what i said and the meaning of those words. those words are very, very easy to understand. >> any progress on the diplomatic back channel? >> well, we don't want to talk about progress, we don't want to talk about back channels. we want to talk about a country that has misbehaved for many, many years, decades actually. through numerous administrations and they didn't want to take on

the issue and i have no choice but to take it on and i'm taking it on and we'll either be very, very successful quickly or we'll be very, very successful in a different way. >> angela merkel says she sees no military solution to fight with north korea. why is she wrong? >> well, i think maybe she's speaking for germany. let her speak for germany. she's a friend of mine, a very good friend of mine. she's a friend of ivanka. she's certainly not referring to the united states, that i can tell you. >> mr. president, you have said that you want to send a strong message to north korea. what do you say to your critics that your rhetoric is raising the tension? >> my critics are only saying that because it's me. if somebody else uttered the exact same words that i have uttered they'd say what a great statement. what a wonner theful statement. but i will tell you, we have tens of millions of people in this country that are so happy with what i'm saying. because they're saying finally we have a president that's sticking up for our nation and

frankly, sticking up for our friends and our allies. this man will not get away with what he's doing, believe me. if he utters one threat in the form of an overt threat which by the way he has been uttering for years and his family has been uttering for years or if he does anything with respect to guam or any place else that's an american territory or an american ally, he will truly regret it and he will regret it fast. thank you all very much. thank you. thank you very much. >> let's bring in nbc's kelly o'donnell with the president in new jersey and "the washington post" bureau chief phil rucker who was on print duty yesterday. kelly o, take us behind the scenes for locked and loaded. the president made clear that he didn't think fire and fury went far enough. but i wonder if his generals, general kelly, his new chief of

staff, and general mcmaster advised him to use terms that have a very literal meaning in military circumstances like locked and loaded to describe our arsenal directed at north korea? >> well, we have been told that new chief of staff john kelly does not supervise the president's tweets specifically. and we do know the president like short phrases that have a catch to them, almost a hook. and we have seen him do that in all manner of things, political and now in the very serious foreign policy issues of dealing with a nuclear power like north korea with its own threatening bellicose language. so the president's tweets sort of set the table today and then through the course of this day likely advised that the u.s. military especially in that region is always at the highest level of readiness and to imply that now suddenly they're locked and loaded would not be an accurate description of the situation. so today in this opportunity

where reporters were there for an event that was supposed to be about and was sort of organized as being jobs related, knowing the president would be in a mood to perhaps expand on his thinking and peter alexander our colleague who was a member of the pool today wanted to press him on specifically that language. you saw that the president wanted to remain in the same lane of tone, but not giving us new buzz phrases. not giving us new incendiary language, but not backing off in his sort of drawing lines with kim jong un. also talking about our allies. and in many ways speaking a bit more like a president typically would in dire circumstances at that table today. not going for the catchy phrase. but still holding the same position that the u.s. has a very strong signal to send to north korea. and i think very notably not wanting to engage on the issue of back channel conversations and diplomacy but certainly not suggesting that that is not an

open channel as well. >> phil rucker, it sounded to me like the president in talking about tens of millions of people who agree with him just look at my twitter feed as i retweet them all, and some of them might be boxed but don't mind that, the president very aware of the news cycle in which he's communicating. as kelly o puts it he finally -- we finally hear on day four may have struck a more presidential and appropriate tone. but we are talking four days later about the fallout from his promise of fire and fury. you did an unbelievable job yesterday. we're going to talk about it some more in the next block but i want to know what you know about the meeting coming up today at 5:00 with secretary tillerson and ambassador haley. is this to sort of push out and make a more public show of diplomacy as opposed to the military action he promised in his tweet this morning? >> i think that's right, nicolle. this was originally a meeting with nikki haley, the u.n. ambassador who is based in new york city. so she's just a short drive away

from bedminster and then they added rex tillerson to the agenda. i'm sure they'll be talking about the diplomatic efforts in the region with countries like south korea, china, japan and so forth. but you're right about the president in the news cycle. this has gone on for four days and it seems like every day, every 24 hours in throws in a new headline. yesterday, it was he wasn't tough enough the first time and now locked and loaded and he knows those will just drive the cable news shows and then websites like ours at "the washington post" all day long. he is trying to put a show of force to show strength and toughness and really intimidate north korea. >> kelly, it's not entirely clear that it's working. we still have north korea responding that any sign of aggression -- it's ridiculous that the u.s. warmongerers are unaware of the fact that even a

single shell dropped on the korean peninsula might lead to the outbreak of the thermonuclear war. we view the united states as a jelly we can beat at any time. is there a sense from the white house insiders that the president's strategy is working? >> well, what i have been told from senior advisers that they believe the president is communicating in the way that he feels most comfortable. he recognizes it's not the typical way that presidents have often spoken in times of heightened tensions. when you hear these lump and jelly juxtapositions from the north koreans some of what the president said seems to be in the same sort of hyperbolic lane at the moment. they are aware that the president has his own style and they believe that the force that he's trying to show is something that even some reluctant republicans will say they appreciate the notion of the

president trying to send a message to kim jong un in a way that perhaps has not been done in recent years. everyone is aware that this is volatile and that this is a situation where the president wants to try to pressure kim jong un to realize that if he is the provocateur that that would be dangerous and the u.s. trying to assert that it does have military options if necessary. some of that is conventional weaponry. it's not necessarily always rising to the level of the nuclear threat although that's the thing we're most concerned about. so there is a sense that this is the president finding his own way of communicating. he knows that it irritates his critics, he knows it draws substantive challenge from others who don't believe it's appropriate. and yet, you saw him again today assert that in his view if someone else said said some of the same words they would not draw the same criticism. hard to imagine the other presidents using the same

language. this is donald trump in his own voice very clearly. >> let me ask you about this idea that rex tillerson is going to walk in. if you've been following this administration and in a walk-up to sort of a nuclear standoff with a country like north korea you get everyone talking on tv or publicly, talking for the country at a time like this on the same page. sebastian gorka, another adviser to the president literally threw rex tillerson under the bus when rex tillerson sounded like the adult in the room telling people it was -- they could sleep at night. which we can debate about whether we should be sleeping at all these days but do you have any sense that's going to come up today, that the president is going to sort of assure that his national security team has the president standing behind them in their public statements? are we going to continue to see them singing off different sheets? >> you know, trump yesterday said there are not mixed messages from the administration but that's not correct. there are mixed messages and rex

tillerson has been the adult, the man of sobriety trying to offer assurances which is something that the president has not done. he's the commander in chief but he's a not yet told the american people that they should feel comfortable that he has this under control, that they can sleep well at night. that we're not on the verge of war. i think there's a lot of anxiety out there in the country, whether to sort of believe this is some sort of charade of a war of words between these two leaders or whether we're actually getting ready, you know, for a very catastrophic event here. and president trump has not provided very much specificity or details when he talks about locked and loaded for example. what does that mean? he still hasn't explained what that means. what are the military movements that have taken place in the region and in the korean peninsula? we don't know. hopefully later today when the reporters can ask some more questions he'll detail some of that. but at this point it's a lot of words. >> all right. we'll turn to that topic right now. that's a perfect segue. kelly o, thank you so much for

being with us again. phil rucker you're sticking around. i want to turn to the military analyst, barry mccaffrey, who lit the world on fire with his remarks on this program as fire and fury was broken. and marc jacobson, who we've turned to this during this week. general, you called the statement babble and i wonder what you heard yesterday the sort of free willing streams of consciousness interspersed with comments like our country is locked and loaded are more babble or if you think it's on to something more troubling? >> i think i totally withdraw the word babble. if i was an intelligence officer in north korea, or russia or china, i would now conclude that the united states is prepared to use military force potentially including the use of nuclear weapons with the fear and fury and that the term locked and

loaded is widely understood. if you use that in the briefing, you have a round in the chamber you're about to open fire on the next man. categorically this is -- we have turned to the north koreans and kim jong un. if he takes a provocative measure, if he fires on guam, i think we're going to take military action. i'm almost sure the president can't retreat from this position. >> that's pretty startling to my ear. tell me what happens. play this string forward for me. so the president decides to do what you just laid out. how quickly are we in a nuclear situation? >> well, of course i don't think we go nuclear unless we either had absorbed the first strike or we thought they were about to launch one. but i do think what would happen now, you know, kim jong un has two generations of his family where they have attacked u.s. military elements and got away

with it. i conclude listening to the president of the united states that won't happen again. we'll take reaction. so he's surrounded by aging generals who he shoots periodically to thin the ranks. are people going to go into him and say, boss, this isn't going to work, or will he take measures that will create a u.s. military response. once military blows are exchanged, i think the chance of going to all-out conventional war are significant. he still doesn't have a usable nuclear capability. i don't think we're going to go there, but i do think the president is saying he's prepared to go to nuclear conflict. >> marc jacobson, let me bring you into this and sort of ask you to weigh in and pick up this string from the general about what the north koreans are thinking when they see president trump talk about being locked and loaded, expressing that fire

and fury didn't articulate plainly enough. north korean state media described trump as unaware of the gravity of the situation on the korean peninsula. can you think of any other assessment from the north koreans where they would have found president clinton or president obama or president bush unaware of the situation on the peninsula? >> i can't. and what's truly disturbing about our president's words the last week, i don't think he understands the history of this conflict not just the immediate history, but going back to the separation of the koreas after the second world war. i want to discuss two directions this could go. one option the president has is to continue along with -- if it's accurate the secret talks, try and ratchet down his own dialogue. get the north koreans to reciprocate -- >> can i stop you at ratchet down? i'm with you, but we woke up

this morning to the president doing the opposite of ratcheting down. i woke up this morning, took my son to camp, checked my phone and read that the president of the united states has us in a locked and loaded situation. how do you ratchet down? >> i thought babble was right, but this is cartoonish. it is scary, it's irresponsible. it's unhelpful. you know, if the president wants to portray and show the north koreans their strength, there is strength in his restraint. there is strength in his ability to -- you know, to be confident in our nation's ability to deal with any threat that the north koreans pose, not just to the continental united states, but to south korea and japan as well. let's take this plane the other direction. i think our president has to realize that for the north koreans a military engagement with the united states could end in the destruction of their entire regime. they have a lot more to lose than we do. and therefore i do think it goes nuclear fairly quickly. if you have a conventional

conflict on the peninsula. i'm more concerned that the president seems to think that going to war achieves the objectives of maintaining u.s. security and the security of our allies when in fact it could destroy south korea as much as north korea. and endangers japan. could destroy cities like tokyo. and i don't think provides security -- in fact politically, how does this help him with the domestic agenda when he spends millions on a war that doesn't make us more secure? i don't get it. >> general mccaffrey, should secretary mattis have a red line in dealing with president trump? i understand the chain of command and aunderstand the president is the commander in chief and technically sits atop of it. in this situation, should mattis have a red line for the president? >> i don't think he does. i have great respect for mattis. he's very sensible. he's law based. i think there is an active national security threat to the

united states from north koreans nuclear program. i don't believe either south korea or japan remotely would buy off on preemptive military action or even major military reaction to the north koreans but i do think right now the pentagon is undoubtedly given him military options. we have got them. and i think they're prepared to follow legal orders from the president of the united states. so what's happened now is kim jong un is in charge of stating whether there will be war in the korean peninsula. if he takes a major military action, my read of the president of the united states we're going to war with him. >> stunning. we'll let that be the last word but we'll call on you both early and often. thank you, general mccaffrey and marc jacobson. nobody can stop him, donald trump letting it all hang out with reporters yesterday. no topics off limits and no

lines crossed for his new chief of staff general kelly as far as we know. we'll go inside the room for more with the reporter who kept him talking. also ahead, trump's unfailing affection for vladimir putin. a man who never met a friend or ally he didn't sometimes want to troll has nothing but sweet nothings for the leader. and busting the conspiracy theorists. how one man is trying to protect the national security adviser from the darkest elements of the far right. this is the story of john smith. not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is.

let's turn right to our

table today. robert traynham, a former senior adviser, now a political analyst. john heilman is a msnbc national affairs analyst and that's about the nicest thing i can say about him today. and jen palmieri and my friday date, the rev al. we are laughing because this has been an extraordinary week. it's been a whipsaw. we're communicators who follow and craft the words that politicians say. but no laughing matter to hear general mccaffrey talk about donald trump's words literally bringing us to the brink of the nuclear standoff and to hear about the leader of north korea who can be the one to avert the war. >> there are two things about the locked an loaded thing that have to be addressed. one is whether mccaffrey who's doing a rational analysis that is what -- a rational -- listen to the word, you say this is what a military commander would

assume. is that what donald trump means when he says those things, is that what his intention is? i'm always skeptical that donald trump means what he's saying and then that's the other thing which is just that it's ridiculous. it's like movie language. this is the language of comic books. >> like he's playing a president. >> we have lived in the nuclear age and for the better part of 70 or 80 years. you never had a president who plays with language in this way, in such an indiscriminate, promiscuous way. this is the one area that you have to be very careful that your words are not misinterpreted. a lot of places you can be flagrant and promiscuous in politics. >> nuclear war ain't one of them? >> this is where it's dangerous not to be. i don't know what he's intending to say or actually saying and i think that part of this is he's doing this thing which he says -- he is talking the way

action heroes talk, not the way presidents who talk who have the power of life and death in their hands. >> let me include in phil rucker. i think yesterday it seemed like one of the press avails where he wouldn't let you guys go. i have been in these interactions and sometimes, you know, it's the reporters who are trying to wrap them. i'm not suggesting you were. but there was a great quote from your piece. you write, engaging with people, journalists adviser, friends and foes is donald trump's lifeblood. is that lifeblood going to get us in trouble in the context that john heilman discusses, a nuclear standoff with north korea who is typically and u.s. versus north korea history it's usually the leaders language that causes more alarm than the american leader. >> it could potentially and that's what's so dangerous about this situation we're in right now. but this is how donald trump likes to act. he doesn't like to be cloistered

ore controlled or secluded or separated from people and certainly from the cameras. so he had been secluded at this golf course for the whole week there on vacation in bedminster without all of his friends around, without the press around, without having a chance to speak to the public. as soon as he saw us, he just -- he kept talking and we were firing as many questions as we could at him about any number of subjects to try to get more information and keep him going. >> i have the sense watching that he was going to invite you to spend the night. have a sleepover, let's keep talking. maybe it was his -- was it his staff wrapping you or the president at the end? >> no, he kept going. you know, it got to the point that he wanted to be done. tell you what, midway through the 20 minute press avail, sarah sanders held up a sign for the boss to try to signal to the president to wrap. to end it. and he blew right past her sign and kept talking to us for another ten minutes or so. >> he sure did. so usually three's a principal saying i will not be handled. in this case i don't know what

he was saying. jen palmieri, we made much about the appointment of general kelly to bring order to the west wing. i thought that the white house's problems were 20/80. 20% were because of the ineffectiveness of a weak chief of staff like reince priebus and 80% were because of a tweeting president who goes rogue with his press pool. how is john kelly doing on the 20 and the 80? >> his job right now is to have donald trump stop talking. didn't you have the moments -- >> i didn't have this problem. >> oh, my -- stop talking. but it is -- that is the most important thing john kelly can do is to control the circumstances in which trump is speaking but to have him go out twice a day when he is -- when there's clearly no road map for what he's going to be saying in north korea and you know, he's saying -- that is a reckless thing for the chief of staff to allow him to do. and i know the president was saying i think he thinks the supporters likes the talk but

the audience is north korea. >> and then the world. >> and the allies. >> let me ask phil rucker because he was in the room. was there any body language from general kelly? he's a pretty stoic man. could you sense that he was twitching or itching or kicking the president under the table? >> no. he sort of stayed in the back of room. he was at one side at one point and then i looked back and he was at the other side of the room at the other point. but clearly he could not control that moment. he had no idea what trump was going to say and he had no idea how many more questions that trump would take. and neither did his press secretary. i talked to the number of senior white house officials last night after this happened they said that the president loved it. they actually loved it. they thought it was a successful performance for him. >> performance. >> there you have it. >> performance. i mean, that's the word here. we have to remember the president is a producer. at the end of the day he plays for the camera. he knows what he's doing. as i understand, he took 31 questions yesterday. the most of any of his presidency. i keep saying this and i hope -- i think i'm right. that is the president is crazy like a fox.

i think it's going to get us in trouble but i think he knows exactly what he's doing and he loves that camera. >> i think we also must not underestimate when we talk about managing this president. you're talking about a man that glories in not being manageable. i mean, he likes that. and i think the more they complain about we can't control you and you're not listening to us, the more he likes that. he glories in saying, nobody tells me. see, even generals can't contain me. but the problem here is that he's playing now not to the theater that he sold tickets to. we're dealing on a world stage where people -- with people don't have to wonder what john is talking about what he meant, we know what he said. and what he said is bringing us on the brink of real danger. this is as serious as it gets and to think that kim can now decide the fate of whether or

not we're going to world war is as frightening as it gets. i'm not easily frightened. this is scary. because you've got this 35-year-old guy in north korea that all of us feel is one step away from doing anything that will determine whether we're going because mr. trump, president trump has put himself in a position where he has to act. because -- >> save face. >> if he doesn't act, he loses all face with everybody including his base. >> quick last word. >> this controllability. remember back before president trump gave his speech to congress, you had mcmaster saying don't say radical islamic terrorism and he said it. you had trump going to europe, you will affirm article 5 and he refiesss to do its. now we see kelly coming in, he's not going to try to control trump's tweets but the ones about war and peace and russia

those are the ones that have influence. trump said i'm going to defy. he makes sure that he's not speaking to the audience or the world. he wants to give them the middle finger you will not control me. no one will. >> they should tell him whatever you say, don't give peace a chance and he'll come in with a violin. >> just to speight them. when we come back, president trump and vladimir putin and the summer of love. when this bell rings... ...it starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business, from the largest financial markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyber-attacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. keeping the world of business connected and protected. that's the power of and.

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i think i'd get along very well with vladimir putin. might be bad, he might be good. but he's a strong leader. putin is a nicer person than i am. >> he's a killer. putin's a killer. >> a lot of killers. got a lot of killers. what, you think our country is so innocent? >> i'm thankful that he let go

of a large number of people because now we have a smaller payroll. we'll save a lot of money. >> president trump was even gracious to the russian president for ousting 700 u.s. diplomats from russia last month. if you're wondering why, perhaps today's headline from "the new york times" put it best. combative trump pulls his punches for one man, putin. ever since mr. trump jumped into political life washington has scratched head over his after finery for mr. putin. he meant his comment to be funny, but she did not mention why he seems reluctant to utter any criticism. joining me is a professor of diplomacy and international relations at the harvard kennedy school of guard. i want to know what you thought hearing the president act in such a cavalier at best manner about the expulsion of over 700

diplomats who in many instances put their lives at risk to serve their country. >> that's right. i'm a former member of the career foreign service, a career diplomat, and my brethren were shocked by what the commander in chief said yesterday. he did not criticize the expulsion of 700 american diplomats from russia. not a word of criticism of vladimir putin. i think you have to go back all the way through -- since the george washington administration. we never had a president who refuses to stick up for his own people. and it's shameful that he's so -- so diminishes the foreign service. he never talks about diplomacy. you can imagine what morale is like in the state department these days and just when you think you have hit a new low point with president trump and what he says, he says something that is so disgraceful you can't imagine ronald reagan or jimmy carter or abraham lincoln saying anything like this. but this is the kind of weak

president we have right now. and he's not leading the men and women of the united states government and certainly not of the state department. so i can't think -- i can't think of anything more shameful that a american president has ever said about our diplomats. >> ambassador, did he put american diplomats in danger? >> well, he certainly has undermined their credibility. i don't know if he's put them in danger. he's wrong on the facts. all of these people are career diplomats. they'll be sent back to washington and be reassigned. there's no saving of money and nor should there. he's not using our diplomats. he doesn't appear connected to them. he's running a north korea policy that's all about threatening them with military force but he hasn't tried a sophisticated diplomatic strategy. so the real problem here is we have a weak president. he's an ignorant person. he doesn't want to appear to

adapt to the office. he's demeaning to the career diplomats. someone else is always to blame. and he doesn't stick up for us against a number one adversary that we have in the world and there's the russian government. it's inexplicable that he gets away with this. and i hope the press doesn't normalize this behavior because it ought to be criticized. >> well, we're not going to do that here. i want to put you on the spot with one more question and this might be uncomfortable but for all of those people who don't have a voice because they are career foreign servant, if you work in the state department, you are not allowed except under very specific processes to speak out. can you be their voice? tell me what it's like right now for the state department under donald trump. >> they are trying their best. these are patriotic people, nicolle, as you know. they want to serve their country. the president is not listening to them. he's threatening to cut their budget. he never talks about diplomacy. he hasn't been over to meet them. he's not giving diplomacy a

chance with north korea. and he's making excuses for vladimir putin. so i think the men and women of the state department obviously are uncomfortable by this. i can't speak for them. but i can say as a former member of the career foreign service we never had a president who so diminished the credibility of our great foreign service. this is a jewel of the united states. these people with language and culture and area expertise. they can be so valuable to defend our country but the president is not giving them the time of day. i think that secretary tillerson needs to stand up for the career foreign service now that they have been so diminished by they're own president. >> would you like to see him do that in the next 24 hours? >> i think he has to do that, nicolle. he has to lead the men and women of the state department. they have now been diminished by their own president. they have been -- they have been shown an extraordinary lack of respect. the secretary needs to stand and lead this department and lead the men and women of the

department. >> ambassador nick burns, we'll call on you often. thank you for spending some time with us. coming up you have heard donald trump's surrogates rail against the deep state. one of their favorite boogiemen but new reporting reports that some of the african jiest were operating in the national security council. we'll tell you about it when we come back.

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a national security staffer who has been fired pepped a memo that eventually made its way to the president that claimed among other things that the deep state was attacking the trump administration, because the president represents a threat to culture marxist memes, globalists and establishment republicans. why does this matter? because the general who fired the man circulating that conspiracy theory memo is national security adviser hr mcmaster and president had to take the extraordinary step of defending him in the sound bite we played at the beginning of this segment because right wing media outlets and others aligned with steve bannon another one of the president's senior staffers still have their knives out for mcmaster. heilman, talk about the tectonic plates rubbing against each other here. >> there's so much news in the last 200 odd days of donald trump's presidency. there was a time when bannon was on the national security

adviser. eventually he got moved out after flynn resigned, was fired. but this battle over whether the heart and soul of the administration and certainly the administration's foreign policy and whether the bannonite nationalist, america first, xenophobic, quasi isolationist world view or other world view, whatever variant of the establishment world view, which ever is dominant in shaping the foreign policy is still very much in play. even though bannon is not on the national security council anymore he's deeply involved in the national security in the administration. this is a proxy war for that war and the war we're seeing play out between mcmaster and breitbart and mcmaster and bannon himself is the main event right now. obviously what trump is doing is even the major event because the question is what is trump embracing? but this is a profound fight between visions of the world and

how american power is going to get exerted over the course of the time, how ever long it is that he's president. >> my money is on bannon. i think he's a fist in a velvet glove. i think he's already thinking about 2018. i think he looks at this as a crusade. i think he looks at this as right versus wrong, evil versus good and i believe that donald trump believes that dark thinking. >> i'm concerned about that. i think that he has the notion that just bannon is not in bedminster he's marginalized somehow. he and steve miller and the acolytes with the only people in that white house that have a world view about changing the face of america that's literally what they say. and they have an aggressive immigration plan and it is being executed well and it's with a lot of strategy behind it. and yeah, i think he's much longer for this world than mcmaster. >> you know, i think it's clear that bannon has an upper hand but i would say for different reasons. i think he is one of the few

around donald trump that really believes in something. i happen to think it's all wrong and is scary. everyone else that's around him is transactional. so is donald trump. so when you have the one guy that keeps saying, you're bigger than this, you're here to change this, you're here to protect this, he's giving him a purpose that donald trump has no purpose other than what bannon can maneuver and he's going to convince him in my opinion i predict he will convince him this will how you can sweep 2018 because they're going to try to wipe you out in terms of the congressional and the midterm elections. they are going to try to go at you in 220. but these are the people who believe what we believe in and no one on the other side is what do we believe in, because he doesn't believe in anything except winning. >> what's so bonkers having worked in the white house is that susan rice sat with i think mike flynn -- i mean, the

national security council is supposed to be a place where there are no politics. the idea that inside the national security council you have people that -- i mean this is the -- i read the memo. it's the fringiest, it's mixing islamists and muslim brotherhood -- >> the memo is nuts but here's why this world view has some power. a guy like steve bannon can point to -- he can say to donald trump if trump were a reader, he'd say go read the best and the brightest. john f. kennedy had to deal with the industrial complex. and if blob was the name for the national security bureaucracy that will stop you, mr. president, from wanting to do what you want to do. presidents constantly confront this establishment that does exist in foreign policy and national policy. they feel frustrated by it and

constrained by it. trump is naturally going to be massively frustrated with these experts around him so bannon has a willing consumer on the theory because there's some pebble of truth in it that other presidents have complained about in the past. >> i just think of all the things you're going to blow up to blow up sort of the sacred apolitical nature of your national security apparatus to me is the most terrifying. >> i don't disagree. >> they don't care. it's us versus them and this is a good point, they always raise it to my friends -- we won. we won when no one -- >> you won an election but people didn't vote for you to blow up the national security -- people that protecting us. >> they took it as that. that was their belief. their mandate and they're talking to a guy who has no hard political beliefs. and a guy who always felt he was an outsider, that the real estate magnates in new york locked him out. it's not hard for him to believe them, whoever they are. >> right. >> are the ones that -- they don't think that you are as

smart as them. they don't recognize that you're really the president. because he already comes in with that chip on his shoulder. >> your one cause for hope. >> give me some hope, i need it. >> that the generals if there's anyone part of the deep state it's military is the establishment as much as anything in american national security. and trump does, we've seen it over and over again, he reveers these generals. that's why he shrouded himself -- it's a cause for hope. >> all right. friday hope. we're just hitting pause. coming up, more on how donald trump is taking aim at his own party.

so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. this timyou haveis turn. 4.3 minutes to yourself. this calls for a taste of cheesecake. new philadelphia cheesecake cups. rich, creamy cheesecake with real strawberries. find them with the refrigerated desserts.

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it seems president trump won't be letting mitch mcconnell off the hook anytime soon. the senate leader now joins a long list of republicans who have been the target of president trump. among them, senator john mccain, house speaker paul ryan, attorney general jeff sessions, senator dean heller, senator lisa murkowski. the list goes on and on and on. al, you and i have talked about this idea of i think it was around when elizabeth warren defended jeff sessions, the enemy of my enemy becomes my friend. what's up with this attack on mcconnell. >> well, i won't say i'll defend mcconnell, but i will say -- >> come on. >> all the kids are doing it. >> i will say that i have a little, a little bit of empathy. because first of all, it was not mcconnell that would not weigh

in on the affordable health care repeal and replace. it was the president that was missing in action. he gets blamed for what the president didn't do. but what is really striking to me, nicole, is we have a president that's appealing to a right of center base that will not criticize putin, but will criticize mitch mcconnell. >> right. >> i mean, what kind of world are we living in? he will beat up mitch mcconnell. he will beat up paul ryan. but he will go out of his way to find the nicest things to say about putin. >> the other tried to pass his crummy healthcare plan. >> right. there's two things that conservatives care a lot about. it's supreme court nominations and it's also tax reform. mitch mcconnell can be your friend on both of those situations if in fact you let him. >> when is it just to krumt, so

gross that wanting those two things together isn't enough to keep the relationship together? >> that's a good question. when do the people in my party, your party stand up to say enough is enough. let's talk about the personal and let's also talk about the plilt cal. the political, this man will throw us under the bus, and we will still be in office once he leaves the white house, whenever that is. whether that's in 2020 or 2020 four. and that's the political. the personal is, do we have any friends that's going to defend us? i mean, you put up the list a few moments ago. let's take the politics out for a second. this president has not defended the intelligence community. remember that during the transition? you talked about the patriots of the state department. he does not defend anyone. and this is really, really sad in america. and the question is when will republicans stand up. >> yeah. and going after mitch mcconnell, that has real consequence for anything that trump actually wants to do. he doesn't have as much control over trump's fate as bob mueller, but he's an

extraordinarily effective legislature and at some point republicans are going to have to decide is this guy going to cause us more pain in 2018 or do we stick with him. and throwing mcconnell under the bus is a really dangerous thing to do. >> we have to take a quick brat. and if that's not enough... we should move. our home team will help you every step of the way. still not enough? it's smaller than i'd like. we'll help you finance your dream home. it's perfect. oh, was this built on an ancient burial ground? okay... then we'll have her cleanse you house of evil spirits. we'll do anything, (spiritual chatter) seriously anything to help you get your dream home. ally. do it right. ♪ whoa that's amazing... hey, i'm the internet! i know a bunch of people who would love that. the internet loves what you're doing... ...so build a better website in under an hour with... ...gocentral from godaddy.

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♪ it's magic introducing the all new volkswagen tiguan. ♪ higher and higher, baby the new king of the concrete jungle. i could have talked to you guys all day long. please come back very, very, very soon. it's never august on msnbc. >> is the show over? >> it's over. that does it for my hour. thank you to robert, john, jen and the rev. "mtp daily" starts right now. hi, chuck. >> did he say over? >> yeah. sorry. you can have your hour. >> it's never over. it wasn't over -- never mind. if it's friday, who do you trust? tonight, from fire and fury to denuking the world to locked and loaded. >> if he utters one threat, eltruly regret it, and elregret it fast. >> what message is thesi