get your ancestrydna kit.here. learn about you and the people and places that led to you and see yourself in a new light. ancestrydna. save 30% through august 15th at ancestrydna.com. and as we were closing down -- got to go, got to go, got to go. >> go, go, go! >> i'm sorry, i'm sorry, there are guns firing and they're pushing me out. they're pushing me out. they're pushing me out. the security is pushing me out. security has got me, i'm sorry. excuse me. >> they're fighting! >> good morning and welcome to "am joy." i'm jonathan capehart in for joy reid. joy will be joining us in just a few minutes. she's wrapping up her appearance on "meet the press "".

the nation is still reeling in the protests in charlottesville, virginia when a car plowed into a group of counter-protesters. the alleged driver, 20-year-old james alex fields, was arrested and charged with second degree murder in the attack. the rally was scheduled for noon yesterday but really ended before it began when the white supremacist protestors began fighting counter-protesters and member of the clergy. at least 35 people were injured in addition to feelsds. three were arrested. former kkk david duke expressed assignment about the meaning of the rally. >> this represents a turning point for the people of this country. we are determined to take our country back. we're going to fulfill the promises of donald trump. that's what we believed in, that's why we voted for donald trump, because he said he's going to take our country back and that's what we got to do.

>> and in the afternoon donald trump addressed the violence. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. it's been going on for a long time in our country. not donald trump, not barack obama. it's been going on for a long, long time. >> joining me now, jennifer ruben, opinion writer at the "washington post," careen jean pierre, national speaks person at move on.org and michelle bernard. thank you all very much for being here this morning. a very important morning. before i throw out a stink bomb of a question, let me -- let's hear from the alleged driver in that attack yesterday, what his mother had to say. let's take a look at that. >> again, right now there's

video of him running his car into the crowd. >> running his car into a crowd of people? >> yeah. >> did it hurt anybody? >> yeah. there's one fatality. people have been injured. >> i don't really talk to him about his political views. i mean, he just -- so i don't really understand what the rally was about. >> how is what we just saw in the video -- not the mother but the video, the b roll of that accident, the attack, the car plowed into those people, how is that not an act of domestic terrorism? >> it absolutely is and the president's refusal to say it is an abomination. it's par for the course. he has played footsy with the white nationalists since the campaign began. there are other republicans who have stepped forward, even the attorney general who is not known for his outspokenness on issues of race has opened an fbi investigation and is cooperating with the u.s. attorney in the

area. so the president's refusal, indifference to this, is really a low point in his presidency which has had a lot of low points. >> michelle? >> i don't know how anyone could look at what we witnessed yesterday, all day long from the beginning to the end and not look at this as an intentional act of domestic terrorism. it was murder. it was murder on the issue of race, political ideology, ethnicity. people are making a statement that donald trump promised them that they were going to take america back and they were fulfilling donald trump's promise. david duke told the nation that yesterday. if you go to any message board of some of these white nationalists and the center alt-right groups, they were all saying after the president made his very lame apology for what happened yesterday if you want to even call it an apology, people were saying the president loves us, he didn't call us out. he loves us. they are fulfilling his profit

s sy. this was their statement of let's make america great again by making america white again. >> in that shot that we showed of david duke saying this is fulfilling the promise of donald trump, how does the white house not immediately upon hearing that david duke said that jump out and say, we are not about that, we fully condemn what david duke said? >> what we're seeing is donald trump's true colors which is not at all surprising. he is able to attack the gold star family, he's able to call the press the enemy of the state, but he cannot condemn nazis. what we saw yesterday was premed indicated, strategic, and done by people who strongly support donald trump. david duke and all of those other 12 or so organizations that came together under the unite the right kind of symbol, that's what this was all about. and now they want their dear leader, donald trump, to stick with the promises that he's made.

let's not forget, he's been doing a lot of this stuff for the last, what, 8 months now? he's trying to criminalize people of color. he disenfranchises women and lgbt community. this is what he's been doing. and now this was -- i think this was the beginning of so much more and this is why we have to stand up and fight back. >> before we bring in our next guest, let's show donald trump feigning ignorance about who david duke is. >> i don't know anything about david duke, okay. i don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. so i don't know. i don't know did he endorse me or what's going on. i know nothing about david duke. i know nothing about white supremacists. so you're asking me a question that i'm supposed to be talking about people that i know nothing about. >> now it's the perfect time for me to bring in joy reid, the anchor of "am joy."

joy, welcome to your own home. >> thank you very much. >> we have to get your view on all this. how is this not viewed as domestic terrorism, and how is it possible that the white house does not jump out immediately and condemn what david duke said yesterday? >> i think that this white house would have no problem calling this terrorism if it had been a muslim driving a car into a group of people or a black person, somebody that they associate with black lives matter, they would immediately call it terrorism instantly. i think that is -- that would have been a slow pitch over home plate. but i think you have to realize when you look at donald trump responding to the incidents in charlottesville, what was he doing? reading. he was reading a response. you have to ask yourself, who was writing what he was reading. inside of his government are people like steven miller, advocates of ending legal immigration, of cutting it in half, people like michael anton who wrote about the ceaseless importation of third world

foreigners ruining the united states and ruining our democracy, making the country more liberal. when you have people like stephen bannon in the government, so the problem is he's reading what they're writing. >> like no passion, no fire and fury -- >> he did have passion once when he said, on all sides. >> yeah. >> this is not about me. >> i'm old enough to remember when republicans used to be against false equivalent. >> and naziism. i think this country fought the nazis in world war ii. >> someone like oren hatch, the most long-term senator, comes out and says my brother died fighting the nazis not to have them show up at home. >> that's right. >> so the viewers know, i was trying to signal to the control room that i wanted element 8 to come up. bob dole is someone who i believe it was during his convention speech when he was a republican nominee said the republican party is a big ten party but we have no space for people who advocate bigotry and

hatred and if you are one of those people, let me show you where the exits are. this shows just how far the republican party has fallen. >> ronald reagan has done this, both bushes has done this. this president who has no allegiance to any party other than donald trump is incapable of doing it because he feels like these are his people. >> the breitbart.com world is very much inside of the white house. that's where steve bannon obviously came from, sebastian gore ka came from. if you go on breitbart, it's posted, milo yiannopoulos co-wrote the bible of what the alt-right is. one of the things they say is that traditional republicans are failing because they kwif kate and allow the charge of racism to be labeled over the simple identity of white people and that white tribalism is natural, according to them, that it's something that is gravitated to by white voters and should be and that it is republicans who

are failing by allowing that to be called racism. it's obvious what the alt-right is. >> yesterday mika brzezinski put it perfect in a tweet where she lagd t labelled the president's statement as being weak and limp. and even that limp statement that he made has irritated and angered his base. i just wanted to read one of david duke's tweets afterwards. he was so angry and he says so the president in a tweet, after decades of white americans being targeted for discriminated and anti-white hatred, we come together as a people and you attack us? so they're angry over the half -- i don't want to say assed but i'll say it if i'm allowed to say that on cable. they're threatening him. what happens tomorrow? is he going to come out with a stronger statement. we saw so much anger, why won't hillary clinton call it radical islam. why don't he say this is the

alt-right. >> to the bob dole point, george bush, when david duke was running for u.s. senator as a republican, he came out and said no way, that we're not accepting bigotry, understanding that duke was the former grand wizard of the kkk and he pushed back against that. the thing also to remember is that what donald trump has done is he is taking a fringe group, the alt-right, a hateful, sexist, racism movement, and normal liesed them. that's what he did by having steve bannon, by having goreka. let's go back a little further. during the campaign, if he wasn't outright using every horrible hateful isms out there, he was doing dog whistles. >> to say nothing of birtherism. it's what got donald trump his fans among the alt-right, he was willing to indulge in this openly racist conspiracy theory.

i have to say, a pastor actually texted me this morning something that i think is actually very kind of an important point. the republican party is rightly distancing themselves from what happened in charlottesville, pushing away the alt-right. treatment deeds would help as well. not standing up to reauthorize the voting rights act, that would be a great deed that the party could do. they could say, we don't want to exclude immigrants from all over the world from this country. we don't affirm jeff sessions' ideas about re-opening the war on drugs and mass incarcerating people. deeds would actually help the republican party recover because the words are good that -- other than donald trump, i think a lot of what the republicans are saying is the right thing. but i think people of color in this country are looking for the right to vote and looking for the right to health care. >> at least they're coming out n now, but i have limited patience with people like speaker ryan. he supported donald trump after donald trump attacked a federal

judge on racist terms. he supported him after the "access hollywood" tape. what did they expect to be getting, what did they think this was going to be? now that this is the natural conclusion of their candidate, exactly how joy says, what are they going to do? i have two suggestions. call for steve bannon and goreka to leave the white house and call for every american city to come down. the mayor of louisiana gave an impassioned -- >> mitch landrieu. >> a wonderful speech explaining why this is not heritage, why this is a symbol that came into being. these things were put up during the 1950s and '60s as part of an anti-segregation movement, why these are not historical. why they're hateful and have no place in america. i'd like to see some republicans take steps on that. >> and st. louis where we see state troopers in black neighborhoods but not white

neighborhoods. get rid of it. >> we have to end the conversation here. thank you. we'll be back. we will have much more on this story throughout the show but up next, the latest bombshell in the trump russia probe that you may have missed but we won't let this slip quietly under the radar. and joy gets her show back. stay with us. ♪ ♪ hey, is this our turn? honey...our turn? yeah, we go left right here. (woman vo) great adventures are still out there. we'll find them in our subaru outback. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get 0% apr financing for 63 months on all new 2017 subaru outback models. now through august 31. hey. what can you tell me about your new social security alerts? oh! we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so you'll be in the know. ooh. sushi. ugh. being in the know is a good thing. sign up online for free.

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everybody said there's no collusion. you look at the councils as they come in. we have a senate hearing. we have judiciary. we have intelligence and we have a house hearing, and everybody walks out, even the enemies and they said, well, there's no collusion, there's no collusion. so they're investigating something that never happened. there was no collusion between us and russia. in fact, the opposite.

russia spent a lot of money on fighting me. >> in the midst of nonstop coverage of the violence in charlottesville, virginia on saturday, "the new york times" dropped another bombshell in the trump russia probe. robert mueller is looking to interview both former and current white house officials. among them, departing chief of staff reince priebus. joining me now to discuss this is congressman ted liu along with richard painter, the chief white house ethics lawyer under george w. bush. thank you both for being here. congressman, who are all of these people who are claiming there's no collusion because according to donald trump everyone is saying so. >> i have no idea what donald trump is talking about. let me just say as a former prosecutor, it's clear to me that special counsel mueller no longer sees just smoke in the trump/russia investigation. he's seeing fire. he believes criminal activity occurred and you can tell that based on his actions. he has hired a lot of prosecutors. he's empaneled a grand jury.

he had fbi agents raid trump campaign chairman's home. and now with his request to interview senior white house officials he believes criminal activity may extend all the way into the white house and that's why congress must do everything we can to keep special counsel mueller from getting fired by donald trump. >> richard painter, give us your take on who you think inside of that white house staff mueller -- if you were robert mueller, who would you want to talk to besides reince priebus obviously? >> everybody. this is a very serious situation. this has been an effort by the russians to destabilize western democracy. it goes back 100 years to the communist takeover. they supported extreme communist groups who blew up bombs on wall street and elsewhere and after world war i they tried to infiltrate our government through the communist party. now they're working through the alt-right, the people you saw down there in charlottesville, virginia.

they're working through the internet. they are spreading fake news throughout the united states. they like agitation with the extreme right. they would love a fascist takeover of the united states. they've been doing this for 100 years. we need to find out who in the united states is collaborating with the russians, who has infiltrated the white house. i'd like to talk to steve bannon because he's very much connected to the alt-right movement. he ought to be out of the white house but wherever he is, he ought to be interviewed by robert mueller. sebastian gorka. every single one of them in the white house, i'd go right through that staff from a to z and talk to everybody and find out what they know about russian political activity inside the united states, collaboration with the russians and the rest of it. this is a serious threat to our national security and i will emphasize i think vladimir putin had a wonderful day watching cnn, fox and msnbc yesterday, laughing at what's going on in what used to be a global super power. >> perish the thought. congressman lieu, i wonder if,

in your view, if you could tell us whether or not there is an iron-clad commitment among the various committees in correct me if i'm wrong who are investigating this matter to avoid granting immunity to any of these potential witnesses in a way that might obstruct or hinder or ultimately thwart robert mueller's investigation? >> i think it's too early to tell. the investigations are still ongoing. keep in mind, you can grant certain kinds of immunity and still allow prosecutions to go forward. in watergate, john dean was granted immunity by congress. he was also prosecuted. there are agreements that can be worked out. keep in mind, the lesson in watergate is that no one is above the law and ultimately richard nixon resigned not for the underlying crime but for obstruction of justice. if you look at the "new york times" story, special counsel mueller is very interested in the obstruction of justice allegation. >> richard, it doesn't seem that donald trump is taking these

allegations -- he clearly is unnerved by them. every time they're mentioned he goes off. but he isn't assembling the kind of legal team that you would expect someone in this position to assemble. you have people like jared kushner who are lawyering up with more experienced attorneys, paul manafort, than donald trump is. what should he be doing in terms of the kind of legal representation he needs, and in your view is the white house counsel doing enough to make it clear to this president that this is real jeopardy for him in his administration? >> no, they're not doing enough at all. first thing he ought to do is not talk about the investigation. no more tweeting, no more talking about it. that was our policy in the george w. bush white house when i was there. you do not talk about pending investigations. you only hurt yourself. you only dig yourself in deeper. second, they ought to do a clean sweep of the white house and boot out anybody who had any contact with the russians that they weren't completely honest with, anybody who has any connections with the so-called alt-right movement, and any of

these fringe groups that the russians have been supporting inside of united states. he needs to clean out his staff and then focus on doing the work of the united states rather than constantly talking about the russia investigation and, please, please, mr. president, save us one more comment about hillary clinton. we're not interested in hillary clinton anymore. we're interested in whether donald trump can be president of the united states, and thus far he's just not doing the job. >> for those who are unclear what richard painter was referring to, on thursday donald trump went after democrats and hillary clinton again. let's really quickly play that to the audience. >> the democrats colluded on the ukraine, so they colluded. and then when you get down to it, why isn't the fbi looking at the dnc server? you have a server that they refuse, the democrats refuse to give to the fbi. now, i don't know how the fbi can investigate something if the

dnc, the democrats, refuse to give the server. >> ted lieu, it is sort of bizarre that donald trump goes back to that issue of hillary clinton, this sort of weird obsession with his former opponent who did not win the election, is not in power. but there are some republicans, some of your colleagues on the other side of the aisle, that are attempting to turn this investigation on russia-gate into an investigation of hillary clinton. what are the chances that republicans in the house are going to be able to launch a counter investigation of hillary clinton as a way of clearing donald trump? >> those are complete different issues. look, if the russians helped hillary clinton become president, we would absolutely be investigating that right now but they didn't. they helped donald trump become president. it is that huge collusion problem that special counsel mueller is investigating and various congressional committees. if the house republicans want to keep rehashing the past and talk about what a presidential candidate, hillary clinton, may have done or not done, they can go ahead but that's not what the

american people are interested in. they want to know if actual crimes occurred, if there was collusion, and that goes all the way up to donald trump and his associates. >> richard, you've seen donald trump lash out at some republicans he might need if this winds up in an impeachment, lashing out at mitch mcconnell. but also you've seen the white house staff throwing people like paul manafort under the bus. do you think it's wise for trump and his white house to start to wage war on potential witnesses and on the potential triers of fact if this should get to an impeachment? >> well, i don't think he's making any friends in the house or the senate for sure. he's rapidly losing support among republican voters. a lot of people traditionally have voted republican are disgusted with what's going on. there's going to have to be a clean sweep of the republican party. we're going to get rid of these alt-right people. we're going to get rid of the

pro-russia people and those who want to cover up this type of investigation. i've been a republican for 30 years. we are not going to support a president who's not loyal to his own country and who covers up an investigation of foreign infiltration of our democratic system. we're just not going to put up with it, so he's got to get his act together or he's not going to last very long. >> it remains to be seen. thank you very much and we'll see you later. up ex next, jeff sessions s there will be a civil rights investigation after yesterday's events in charlottesville. our next guest, van eat ta gupta, says that will not be enough. stay with us.

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the fbi will investigate

yesterday's car crash in which a suspect rammed a car into a group of protestors, killing one and injuring 19 others as a potential civil rights violation. attorney general jeff sessions said in a statement, quote, the violence and deaths in charlottesvil charlottesville strike at the heart of american law and justice and when such actions arise from racial bigotry and hatred, they betray our core values and cannot be tolerated. justice will prevail. joining me, vanita gupta who led the doj's civil rights investigation under barack obama. back with us jonathan capehart and richard painter. you tweeted, finally something from doj but this is narrow, there's much more investigate. no mention this is a hate crime or domestic terror investigation. you don't think that the doj went far enough? >> first of all, i think it took them way too long to issue that statement. almost immediately the justice department -- this is what the

justice department does. this is what the fbi does as part of their historic mission. they should have come out boldly to announce the investigation, and then i was surprised -- i'm heartened that the attorney general mentioned racial hatred in his statement but it means something when elected officials actually call things by the terms that people know them to be. so domestic terrorism and hate crimes, that's what this investigation should be. what you and i probably both understand is if this had been a muslim driver ramming into this crowd, the word terrorism would have been used immediately. so it's hard to square kind of the lack of parody in how these things are being treated. it's really important that they announce this investigation, but frankly, i think that we've got to make sure that the investigation, that they look at all the facts in the law. there was a lot of violence outside of that awful car ramming into the crowd and everything needs to be investigated as a part of this. >> absolutely. and you know, jonathan, it was interesting, eric holder who is

the former attorney general of course under president obama tweeted at about 10:07 p.m. on the night of this incident, charlottesville, time for a clear doj response, don't equivocate, what are you going to do, announce an investigation into what occurred. within about 45 minutes that announcement was made. we're not saying it was because of that but it is interesting that the previous attorney general came out and said wait a minute there should be an investigation, before the current one did. >> that's the perfect example of elections having consequences. we come from an administration where it's automatic, where the doj, where is the president. why aren't they saying something, this is right in their wheel house. this is america. yesterday people were asking, where is the president and the president didn't feel any compunction about any kind of immediate response, as vanita said. we've been through nice, london, paris. he knee-jerk reacts on twitter. it says something when attorney

general jefferson beauregard sessions can say the words that the president of the united states can't. >> the administration has been fanning out on the sunday shows this morning trying to i guess amend the president's response. one of the people who was asked about this incident, about the administration's response was thomas bossert, and he is the homeland security adviser to the president. he was on cnn this morning. let's listen to mr. bossert on cnn. >> mr. bossert, that's a neo nazi website celebrating how equivocal and vague the president of the united states was. are you willing to at least concede that president trump was not clear enough in specifically condemning white supremacy? >> no, you know, the words of the ignorant bear little with me and should bear less with you in the media. unfortunately, they don't. what i would say is that the president not only condemned the violence and stood up at a time and a moment when calm was necessary and didn't dignify the names of these groups of people

but rather addressed the fundamental issue. >> so there is mr. bossert saying he didn't dignify by saying their names. after that, jack tapper who is the host of that program actually pressed him further. this is a bit long but i want you to listen to tim bossert -- mr. bossert, on the followup. please listen. >> these groups showed up looking for violence. >> what groups? >> i think it's important for people to understand -- >> what groups are you referring to? >> the groups that -- i refer to the groups that clashed yesterday. i think it was pretty graphically evident. >> are you talking about the neo nazis or the counter-protesters? >> one of the things that i think the mayor will make clear to you and probably stated earlier on your program, i know he and i talked about it this morning, was the difficulty he had in planning for this event. >> you, on this show today, have said that you condemn groups and condemn actions and bigotry but i haven't heard you say i

condemn white supremacists, neo nazis and i think a lot of people are upset they didn't hear it from president trump. i don't want to belabor this. >> i think you've belabored it so let me say that i condemn all the groups that espouse hatred. >> that clip is 1:02 long. it took a full minute of questioning for this trump official to use the words neo nazis and white supremacists. what does that say to you? >> he still didn't get the big picture. the big picture is there's an umbrella organization called the alt-right that operates on the internet, has been operating through breitbart news, and the alt-right is coordinating a lot of these people. we've had the nazi party for a long time and the kkk but the alt-right is bringing people having to coordinate on the

internation internet to arrange marches like this. it's a terrorist movement, a racist movement. it's a serious threat to our democracy, to our national security, and the white house doesn't recognize that and then people who were with the alt-right or inside the white house, we do not trust the justice department. we're going to have to rely on our own state government to protect ourselves, and i can tell you that the alt-right people and the bannonites come to minnesota we're going to have our governor call out the national guard. we're not going to put up with that kind of thing and a lot of other states aren't going to put up with it. there's talk that they're going to boston and if they do they're going to be taken care of. it's going to be up to the governors of the states to enforce law and order because i don't think the justice department gives a hoot. i'm not convinced that they're doing anything. they're focusing mostly on trying to make sure their state universities don't recruit enough black students. they're trying to crack down on our affirmative action programs even though we're having a

struggle recruiting black students, particularly in this crazy environment. >> it's a very good point. my producers inform me that it was actually more than a minute. it's quite long. we had to cut it down. vanita, you made that point as well. the problem isn't just the alt-right in the streets. it's the alt-right act oh lights inside of the white house. >> i want to pick up on something that richard painter said which is unfortunately this justice department also has had a decidedly civil rights agenda since attorney general sessions became attorney general on everything from dill inition ev rights a and then you have folks like steve bannon in the white house, sebastian gorka. you have the architect of the muslim ban. words matter and donald trump completely failed as a leader yesterday. i don't even know that he has any moral credibility left to address these issues when these

incidents happen, but then he also has in his administration people who are creating a strategy for this government that really is an alt-right strategy and if he is going to be real about disavowing the white supremacists that give him support, he needs to get rid of those folks in his administration. the legitimacy from the federal government including reaching to the justice department which is a real problem for people in this country is so undermined because of this broader agenda, it's not just words that matter. so he could say the right thing today and decide he's got to clean it up, but what are we going to do about all those policies and programs that are seeking to exclude a large part of the american population from economic opportunity, from educational opportunity, voting rights and the like and that's a big, big question that this country has to ask and he needs to get rid of those folks. >> you have inside of the

administration steven miller who has written speeches for donald trump, jonathan, who used to write speeches for jeff sessions, the attorney general. one of the people organizing and a claimed leader of the alt-right, they're inside of the administration and it's difficult to find anyone who could write a speech for donald trump that would be other than what he said yesterday. >> the president could come out tomorrow and give sort of a barack obama-level speech or comment about bigotry, anti-semitism, white supremacy and the words would be great but i would not believe that he believed anything that he was saying. he would go through -- to me, it would be viewed as him going through the motions to do this because people around him are saying that he must do this. i agree 100% with vanita. i believe that the president's moral authority, this president's moral authority, is completely diminished if not

void when it comes to incidents that happen, attacks, terrorist attacks that happen in charlottesville because of how he got to the position in the first place. let's not forget that on june 16th, 2015 when he announced that he was running for president, then candidate donald trump talked about mexicans being rapists and it went downhill from there. there was no one, no group of americans who were not hit by his inflammatory, hateful rhetoric. anyone who thinks that there's no connection between people willingly going to charl charlottesville with no masks, no hoods, openly protesting the removal of confederate statue who doesn't think that's connected to donald trump's candidacy for the presidency of the united states is fooling themselves. >> vanita, you did this job at the justice department. take us inside of how people in the civil rights division must

be feeling today because it's not clear where the leadership of this administration stands on fundamental issues of civil rights. >> look, i think that's absolutely right. i can imagine only that the morale is incredibly low. these are people who are trying to see to increase opportunity and inclusion and justice and fairness for everyone in this country, and it's an administration that has shown every action and taken a lot of steps in the last six months to diminish that. i will say, you know, the thing that scares me the most right now is that when you have people like bannon, you have jeff sessions, you have folks that in the immediate kind of nomination or appointment period, there was a sense of outrage. what happened slowly is that these people have now been in our government for six months, right? they are advancing policies and there's a fear that this stuff becomes legitimized and normalized. that's why, you know, you can't imagine something like this taking place in prior administrations, republican or democratic. it's up to us, the people, to ensure that this never becomes

legitimized or normalized. this is not what america should be about. >> that includes the media. calling steve bannon a populist is a misnomer and the media is engaged in it too. it's all of our responsibility to point out how abnormal this is. this is fundamentally not what america is supposed to stand for. i'll get off my soap box and thank vanita, jonathan and richard. coming up in our next hour, the right wing extremist who has donald trump's ear. more "am joy" after the break.

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vanita gupta.

this weekend, oakland raiders running back marshawn lynch back in uniform first time since coming out of retirement. the all prorunning back did not take a knee during the national anthem, instead sat on a cooler on the sidelines. right on cue, the right wing drudge report highlighted the story. remember conservatives relentlessly attacked colin kaepernick when he took a knee to protest shootings of african americans. today, cabernet nick still doesn't have a job playing in the nfl. joining us, bill, start with you, colin kaepernick's stats in the 2016 season, 6241 yards, career, 12,000 plus yards. 16 touchdowns last year. 72 total. those are the kind of stats you would think would get a guy signed to a franchise, yet he is not. is this direct retaliation for his protests?

>> absolutely, joy. from the very beginning, it had nothing to do with football. this has nothing to do with football. this has everything to do with power and control and keeping these players in their place. what i will say is i don't really have a problem, owners are doing what owners do. i have more issue with the players, nfl players association letting owners get away with this. you've got marshawn, richard sherman, player here or there, but this has to be something that's directed from the nfl pa and demorris smith. you can't let a member of your unit be treated like this. owners, i think when you play against somebody, you expect the opponent to do what they do, but you have to do what you can do. i think, joy, this is a player association issue, demorris smith issue. you can't let owners do this to your members. >> and you know, fernand, spike lee didn't organize, but tweeted

out, wanted me to point out he wasn't organizing, tweeted a rally taking place august 23rd at nfl headquarters. in your view is it, we've got players in the nfl, ben roethlisbergers of the world accused of heinous things and are still playing, you have somebody using the first amendment right to protest, they are shunned by the nfl. is that fair? >> it's absolutely unfair. i think america owes colin kaepernick an apology and a job. i guess if he had beaten his wife or girlfriend, he would be playing given the double standard in the nfl which is outrageous. i think this stunning hypocrisy where colin kaepernick, you pointed it out, exercising peaceful protests, his first amendment rights as an american, many outraged by that conspicuously quiet this morning after that disgusting, disturbing incident of white

nationalist terrorism. the nfl is a private business. the owners are going to do what they do. unfortunately in that private business, the players serve at the whims of the owner. what's not a private business is the federal government. if he is out of a job for exercising first amendment peaceful right, why are bannon, gorka, miller whose jobs are funded by we the taxpayers, why are they still working today? >> it is a fair point, bill, that the rally that turned into a violent melee, including a person using a car as a weapon in what can only be described as a domestic terror attack, they were at a free speech rally, exercising their first amendment rights to free speech openly. there was a klanesque march the night before. it seems it is guarded on the right for their own side whereas

colin kaepernick is to be shunned for not standing up during the national anthem. it seems to be an incredible imbalance. >> and i want to go back, joy. first of all i believe love always wins. love will always triumph. that's why they're taking a lot of symbols of hatred down. i do think during the last 8 years of the obama administration, i think a lot of people got real soft thinking this was sort of, you know, that was just -- now this is the real deal here. i think those of us who believe in our rights as human beings, we don't support police violence, we've really got to stand up. we've got to stand up. by the way, a lot of players in the nfl and major league baseball, a lot of them have kind of support from these people, the nazis, white supremacists.

it is important to let it be known we're not about this. we're not about this. we're not about this type of hatred. >> unfortunately out of time. thank you guys. i appreciate you being here. thank you. we'll continue to follow the developments in the charl otsville attack. more next hour as the feds announce a civil rights investigation. more "am joy" next. [vo] progress is seizing the moment. your summer moment awaits you now that the summer of audi sales event is here. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during the summer of audi sales event. can make anyone slow downt and pull up a seat to the table. that's why she takes the time to season her turkey to perfection, and make stuffing from scratch. so that you can spend time

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rally. with white nationalist protests using clubs and brass knuckles, including members of the clergy. several people severely injured, one woman was killed when a car rammed into the crowd. james alex fields was arrested and charged with second degree murder along with other crimes. a facebook belonging to fields is riddled with white supremacist, nazi, and pep ee the frog means trump supporters, as well as picture of trump on a golden thrown. the man said white supremacists aren't the problem is sebastian gorka. you wonder what does he do to earn his $150,000 taxpayer funded salary. his title is deputy assistant to the president, worked with steve bannon, includes writing breitbart.com posts on national

security. apparently has a problem with pajamas. >> the message i have, it is a simple one, bumper sticker, shawn, the era of the pajama boy is over january 20th, and the alpha males are back. >> poor pajama boy. he has a ph.d. from a questionable university in budapest, insists on being referred to as dr. gorka. considers himself a counterterrorism expert, most actual experts didn't know his name even a few years ago. tried to join national security council, was denied security clearance and has ties to ultra right groups in hungary, which is descended from actual nazis. here he is proudly wearing their pin. he denies ties to the group, said he wore it as a tribute to his dad. this is what he had to say about recent fire bombing of a mosque in minnesota. >> great rule. all initial reports are false.

you have to check them, you have to find out who the perpetrators are. we had a series of crimes committed, alleged hate crimes by right wing individuals in the last six months that turned out to be propagated from the left. when you have people fake hate crimes in the last six months with some regularity, i think it is wise, don't you, to find out what exactly is going on. >> he called an attack on a mosque a false flag. this is the guy with the president's ear. the guy who said days ago that white supremacists are not the problem. joining me, national spokesperson for move on.org, dana milbank, msnbc correspondent, gabriel sherman, curt bar kel a former correspondent for breitbart. curt, i am going to you first. you're the most familiar with breitbart world where sebastian gorka came from. he describes himself as an expert in islamist terrorism,

never lived in a country. today, the global jihad has two brands. it's a war of sunni coke versus the shi'a pepsi. how does that person claim to have any credentials to advise the president of the united states on national security? >> you highlighted his credentials are as you reported, equivalent of a mail in degree, like a doctor at from trump university. this is someone that aligned with steve bannon, able to ingratiate himself by using inflammatory rhetoric, the same world view of hatred and fear and absurd notion that america is being overrun by muslims and immigrants, will be the destruction of our state as we know it. and steve krounsurrounded himse with like thinking allies.

and we see the consequences of surrounding yourself with those type of people and how they're advising the president and how the president responds to an act of domestic terrorism by racists with that pitiful statement he put out. where do you think it came from? they're bending over backwards to not say something as a racially motivated act of domestic terror. it's interesting, they're quick to jump to conclusions and judgment when it was president obama. there was no oh, let's wait for the facts, not do it by association, remember the vicious attacks against president obama during the r reverend wright situation. now that the shoe is on the other foot, it is a completely hypocritical double standard. >> the white house did attempt, they're attempting to do a rolling walk back of donald trump's mild statement yesterday that didn't include any individuals' specific names. they put out a statement that the president said very strongly

in a statement he condemns all forms of violence or hatred. >> it is always someone else saying it, not donald trump. >> they say includes, they're including them in the banning of white supremacists, neonazi and extremist groups. dana, it is interesting, i used to blog. i don't have anything against bloggers, you have this blogger contingent in the white house between bannon who ran breitbart, gorka never lived in a muslim country, he was fired from a gig, used to lecture the fbi employees on counterterrorism issues but they had to fire him because of anti-muslim diatribes. how does somebody like this get past the door, i know he doesn't have security clearance, how is he in the door? >> talking somebody dramatically unqualified to be serving in the position he is in. i can think of somebody else in

the white house dramatically unqualified. in fairness, there have been people in the white house saying this guy doesn't belong here. even in steve bannon world saying this goes too far. one guy for whom he doesn't go too far, the president of the united states. in some ways, gorka is the it of the president. he does what the president does, he is even more outrageous, less tethered to the facts, for example, talking about how white nationalists are not the problem, violence by white supremacists is higher since 9/11 than it has been. i think it is trump's it out there. >> one of the reasons that he likes sebastian gorka, this is in the wake of donald trump saying he is going to rain fire and fury like no one has ever seen before on north korea, everybody went what, except sebastian gorka who did this on

fox. >> he is saying don't test america and don't test donald j. trump. we are not just a super power. we were a super power, we are now a hyper power. nobody in the world, especially not north korea comes close to challenging our military capabilities. >> half expected him to say we have die lithium crystals. >> what is he talking about, we are a hyper power now. >> i mean, look, as you were saying, for donald trump, his qualifications that he could go on tv and spew this type of ugliness and bizarreness, and attack the press, he does that a lot. that's really -- he goes on tv to fan the flames of white supremacy. there's a story in "rolling stone" says john kelly has been trying to get rid of him, trying

to figure another place to put him in government, nobody wants him. only donald trump wants him. >> maybe that's the reason for the personality. gabriel sherman, you study the fox world, he is a frequent figure on fox. this kind of figure is very popular there. we know donald trump watches that channel relentlessly. is there a sense among people that work in that world that they need to cultivate these kind of personalities, in part because it gives people like sean hannity influence at the white house? >> you know, i think that's a good question. i think not only fox has to cultivate seb gorka, it is the reverse he is willing to go on and say what many of the fox audience believe. if anything was revealed by the 2016 election, the fox audience is the trump base and fox made the programming calculus that they need to reflect these world views from a ratings,

programming perspective. just rewind to when megyn kelly was feuding with donald trump, her producer saw her ratings go down any time she said something that was critical of donald trump. so the sort of amplification of these outrageous trump voices that we see on hannity or fox and friends is really appealing to the core fox news viewer. >> i wanted to talk to you about whether or not what happened in charlottesvil charlottesville might change -- there was a report published about trump believing bannon is leaking and his leaks are targeting general h.r. mcmaster, putti putting bannon's job in jeopardy. could the one thing that could dislodge the bannonites, the idea he could push him out for leaking if not being on the alt right. >> i feel this is the third or

fourth it racial that trump is not happy. first the "time" magazine, portrayals of steve as the man behind trump, the brain behind trump which obviously he didn't like. trump was upset about his cooperation and role in joshua green's book, and now this assault that we have seen from platforms like breitbart that bannon probably still controls out of the white house, going after mcmaster. not a hard stretch to believe it is coming from steve or people controlled by steve that work inside the white house. yeah. at some point for all of the grandiose we see about we need to go after leaks, stop anonymous sources and rhetoric from the white house and attorney general sessions, likely biggest person who does this day-in and day-out is his chief strategist. >> the guy with the blog. dana, this is hr mcmaster this morning being more definitive on what happened in

charlottesville. take a listen. >> i think what terrorism is is use of violence to incite terror and fear. certainly it was terrorism. i think we can call it a form of terrorism. >> who is in greater jeopardy of their job, steve bannon or hr mcmaster. >> mcmaster is doing cleanup, perpetual cleanup of what the president has been saying for six months now. of course, mcmaster has less staying power there. you have to understand that bannon, gorka, they're there because they speak to trump space. they would be happy with him suspending the 2020 election. can't go too far for that. trump can't get rid of them, or if he could individually not for that segment of the white house that's speaking to these people, mcmaster is expendable like everybody else. >> i wonder, gabe, if in fox world, we may have to -- quickly, in fox world, what would be the punishment.

who would be punished if mcmaster was pushed out. would that shake the fox trump base at all or would they decide that if you pushed out bannon, he must back out. >> i think that's a good question. i think really their loyalty is to donald trump, not to steve bannon or the alt right. i think to the extent they would program and want to reflect that decision to help trump, i think that would be the calculus. >> you can look to the change of wikileaks where they might go. thank you very much. up next. more on what we know about the driver who rammed his car into protesters in charlottesville killing one and injuring many others. stay with us. he cover-up for go? he cover-up for go? that's cool. showing off my arms? that's cool. being comfortable without a shirt? that's cool. getting the body you want without surgery, needles, or downtime?

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i didn't know it was white supremacists, i thought it had something to do with trump. he is not a supremacist. he had an african-american friend. i mean -- >> yeah. >> is this surprising to you then? >> yeah, that he would run as current to a group of people for -- i'm not clear. >> that was the moment the mother of 20-year-old charlottesville suspect, the charlottesville suspect learned in an associated press interview of her son's alleged involvement in the car attack that killed a woman and injured 19 other protesters. james alex fields faces second degree murder and other charges and will be arraigned tomorrow. video shows a chaotic, horrifying scene. we warn you the images we are about to show you may be disturbing. you see the silver dodge challenger ram into counter

protesters demonstrating against a white supremacist rally. vanita gupta. start at your end of the table, michelle. the suspect's mother announced she was shocked he would do this because he had an african-american friend at some point. james alex field's social media content, maybe she doesn't check his facebook, it is an absolute litter, it is littered with alt references to nazis and white supremacy. >> she either doesn't follow him on facebook or doesn't realize sentiments like that are racist and stand against everything the country stands for. it's kind of like at this age, i have a hard time understanding how you don't know what's in your child's heart. she genuinely looked shocked to

see what her son had done. >> she did? >> to me she looked completely like taken aback and surprised. she said not understanding how he did this because he has an african-american friend. we live in a world where people don't understand the reality of the country that we live in today. donald trump's america is not the america that anyone is raised to believe that we stand for as a nation, and her son is a testament to that fact. >> it is amazing that she's sort of bewildered by the fact that he likes trump. this interesting thing, they cannot make that connection that anybody who would have racist views has anything to do with donald trump. it is as if birtherism and things he said about every racial group in the country, they just don't penetrate. >> she clearly lives in a bubble. i think she also said that she thought he was going to a donald trump rally, not a hate rally.

>> she literally, i don't understand that she doesn't understand what it means. >> because it doesn't bother, it doesn't effect her directly. >> i think that's one of the things. these are things that we are very aware of, but it doesn't, alt right, birtherism are probably words she doesn't understand or can define. >> doesn't effect her. >> this goes to the issue around normalization of the alt right. there should be a situation where people feel like it is a deeply stigmatizing feeling to have a child with alt right, but this is legitimization because you have folks like steve bannon in the white house crafting strategy for the administration. in some ways, are we surprised that you have folks in this country that don't recognize it for being the completely abnormal and deeply disturbing thing that it is. >> and not just, jonathan, not

just the alt right. i think republicans came out, made strong statements, statements were very strong, give them credit, underlying statements, these are the same people passing policies that restrict voting rights and access to health care. we now have the attorney general going after affirmative action in very ex-poliplicit terms, re racism and et cetera. beyond that, there's a map. this is 18 states where republican lawmakers introduce various bills to restrict protesting. what specific things are they talking about. these are things that were overtly directed against black lives matter. then you have in the north carolina house a bill that would protect drivers who hit protesters. in north dakota, it would be legal to hit a protester with your car. in florida, proposed bill would

protect drivers who unintentionally hit or kill protesters. texas, bill that eases liability for running over protesters. you just had a man hit someone with his car, i just counted five republican controlled states where they want to make it legal to do that. >> kind of ironic, given that we have seen people being hit by cars in paris, london, nice, and from the president on down, jumping out there, saying we have to do something about radical islamic terrorism. and yet these are laws that would protect radical islamic terrorists if they do the same thing in those states. >> would they? would they not prosecute muslim and not the krigsz? >> i think you're right. i want to get to two larger points. while we must demand more of these legislators pushing these bills, we have to demand more from ourselves.

now that we know these things are happening around the country, what are we doing to stop it? even if those things go through, i wouldn't want to live in any one of those states and feel like i didn't do my part to keep that from happening because that's not american. the second thing, second point i want to make is we talk about the alt right. let's talk about what the alt right is, it is white supremacist and black tie. let's talk about what it is. the president of the united states has a white supremacist that sits feet from him in the oval office. we are talking about charlottesville today because people like steve bannon and gorka, miller, other people who are probably sprinkled throughout this administration believe this point of view. while we are demanding more from president trump because we should, because he should, because he is the leader of all of the country, unless and until he gets rid of those people and makes a concerted effort to move

from words to deeds and then stick with it. >> right. >> then he will not have the moral authority to have -- to help us. that's what we need. >> just on that same vein, i want to tell a story. friend of mine is pakistani and muslim friday became a citizen of this country, right in new york city. he told me he stood in a room with 156 other people from 55 countries. he says there were so many brown people, he couldn't believe it. it took him awhile under this presidency to get there, but if you think about it, those immigrants were standing in the room, hoping and wishing that they're coming into a better country, that this is indeed a better america, if you will. and i think from what we saw yesterday is a complete contradiction to what happens in that room, across the country. there are hundreds of ceremonies

across the country. we have to figure out what kind of country do we want. do we want a country that my friend stood in, all these different people stood around it. >> we have this current administration explicitly saying we don't want more of that. we want legal immigration. you have people in the white house who have written that the ceaseless deportation of third world people into the united states is ruining the country, so i don't know what kind of country we want because that's the government. >> we know what kind of country they want. >> as a candidate and as a president, donald trump has embolden forces of hate and division. we need to recognize the power lies within us to do something about this. there can be no more tolerance for steve bannon, gorka, miller being a part of a white house that is defining a strategy across agencies that are

dismanned elg and undermining the core values of inclusion and justice that we want to believe is our core values in this country. and that's got to be with us. we need to demand it. we can't afford normalization of this. again, they're doing this through lots of different ways, not just through pronouncements yesterday in charlottesville, it is the cut back on voting rights, the push back on criminal justice, even at odds with the republican party. the cut back on lbgt rights. this is part of a concerted agenda. we now, the people, need to be holding our officials accountable at state legislatures, in congress, in communities with local elected officials. the way stuff seeps out, it starts with folks at the white house, but the more it is tolerated, more of these policies get -- >> now we've seen with the mother of this person, james alex fields in our own families, people need to have frank conversations inside their own

families and start to recognize that the rot might be inside the house. thank you very much. coming up, fox news's eric bolling goes after a friend of this show. ♪ (boy) and these are the lungs. (class) ewwww! (boy) sorry. (dad) don't worry about it. (mom) honey, honey, honey, honey!

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eric bolling of sexual harassment, hours after he was suspended from the network. his suspension was spurred by a bombshell report by yashar ali in huffington post which alleged that bolling sent lewd text messages to at least three female colleagues. ali based reporting on 14 unnamed sources within and outside of fox news. nbc news hasn't independently verified the claims. now bolling is suing the reporter for defamation, seeking at least $50 million in damages. in a statement, bolling's attorney said this is this anonymously sourced uncorroborated story is intended to destroy this good man's career and family. we will defend eric aggressively in court where actual facts based on evidence, testimony, and cross examination, we will belie these anonymous accusations. ali's attorney fired back saying it is false that mr. ali published defamatory statements, there's no evidence of actual

malice. joining me, care line heldman who accused bolling of harassment, lisa bloom, civil rights attorney. and on the phone, yashar ali, author of the report on bolling and the target of this defamation suit. i want to start with you, yashar. you tweeted it is important to note that bolling's sumness comes after me and not huffington post. were you surprised when this lawsuit was filed that it didn't include huffington post? >> i'm not surprised because this is a suit without merit. he's doing this to try to intimidate me. and of course he is not going to include huff post, owned by verizon, multi billion dollar conglomerate with a fleet of lawyers because he knows he would be demolished by them. i'm not going to bow down with him, he is going to have to deal

with my lawyer, and he is trying to do this to intimidate, attempt to intimidate a young reporter. >> and the huffington post stood by you, lydia paul green, editor in chief sent out a tweet of her own in which she said yashar ali is a paid freelancer under contract with huffpost. we have no hesitation about standing by him financially in this case. you feel you're fully supported by the company? >> i am, just to be clear, i have not accepted their offer of financial help with respect to the lawsuit. and one of the reasons is because he is coming after me directly. but they have made a very serious offer, have been kind enough to do that. they didn't technically have to do that and cudos to lydia for standing by me and other reporters that face these meritless lawsuits that are, you know, put out in attempt to shut people like me up. it's not going to work.

>> lisa bloom who is a blockbuster attorney in your own right, i want your take on yashar's come back, a fiery response that says we welcome the opportunity to depose mr. bolling and review his message history. is the risk in this lawsuit a little thing called discovery? >> absolutely. and mr. ali, take the huffington post offer of financial help for attorneys. i have been litigating a defamation case for two years in california against bill cosby, they can be long, drag out, a lot of motion practice. let your organization stand behind you, and yes, you get discovery. i suggest attorneys send out document preservation letters which means he can't destroy any electronic communications, you have to hold onto the phone, devices, e-mails, texts. and we know why, to see if we can preserve evidence here. it is appalling, joy, we have a

journalist going after another journalist for a story allegedly with 14 sources. come on. he'll never be able to prove actual malice. >> carolyn, you could theoretically be a witness here. does the fact that eric bolling's attorneys say these are fabrications and made up, given your personal experiences, what do you make of that? >> i think it is fascinating that much of what he did to me he did on air, so there are actually videos of him sexually harassing me on the air, calling me dr. mchottie, making comments about me being beautiful, smart, and dead wrong. i didn't go to college for 12 years to have my professional title have mchotty after it. he hasn't replied to my allegations. he has, of course, gone after the story about the pictures, but i think it's telling. he did it on air. fox executives stood by while

this happened. i'm not sure he has a leg to stand on, especially given that there are other women afraid to come forward but who could. so i don't think eric bolling wants to pursue a legal path with me, i think it is a frivolous lawsuit against yashar and i think it wreaks of desperation. >> your 14 sources will come into play. are you confident the people you spoke with are going to be willing to testify on your behalf? >> i know some of them will, but i will not be revealing my sources. i made a pledge to them to protect them no matter what. if i end up, not trying to be dramatic, if i end up in jail because of that, that's fine. i made a commitment and i have to keep it. >> do you have in your possession copies of text messages? >> i can't talk about that. >> can't talk about that. all right. lisa, in order to prove defamation, what is it that eric

bolling would have to actually prove? >> he's a public figure. means a simple negligent mistake would not be sufficient. he would have to show that mr. ali intentionally lied about him or at least published an article with reckless disregard as to the truth or falsity of the article. that's a very high standard. notice that what was filed in new york was a simple summons with notice. the simplest legal document a first year law student could draft and put out there, slap a big number at the end. i want $50 million. i never put that in my complaint, never put a dollar figure, that's a head line grabbing way to get attention but doesn't mean anything. the man hasn't been fired. he still has a job, he's just been suspended. how on earth can you prove $50 million in damages, you can't do it. >> do you think this is simply a lawsuit meant to, i don't know, make the appearance of umbrage so that he can present himself as an innocent man and that he is not serious about the

lawsuit? >> this is a way he is trying to save his job. i've had a number of sexual harassment cases against fox news so i have some understandings of how things work there. he has been suspended. he wants to keep his job. i think he wants to say to paul wise attorneys that represent fox news, you can't fire me until my lawsuit is resolved. defamation lawsuits can take five years or more. he wants to say i have an outstanding claim, let me prove my claim, let me keep my job. >> carolyn, bolling is getting support from pat robertson. this is what he had to say about the accusations monday. >> if you wanted to destroy the fox news, you really wanted to destroy them, what would you do? you would send salacious material ostensibly from one of their popular co-hosts or hosts, the latest attack is against a guy named eric bolling who i

think is a straight arrow, he was on this program, dedicated catholic, goes to mass every day, very nice man. they pulled him off the air because somebody sent pictures ostensibly over his name. >> this is a false flag accusation rearing its ugly head. can you imagine anyone you work with at fox, any women that you knew or worked with at fox faking text messages from eric bolling to frame him for sending such lewd material? >> absolutely not. i think that eric bolling was not particularly cautious about his actions. i would say that compared to some of the other men at fox who also engaged in similar behavior, he was sloppier. with that in mind, goes beyond genitalia pictures, right? i have made allegations, some of which are provable by looking at youtube videos, others provable by looking at journals and eyewitness accounts and things i told people immediately after it happened, it is not just me, it is multiple women. it has been multiple women at

fox against multiple executives and hosts, it was a culture, and frankly i grew up pentecostal, evangelical, i am not that any more. but pat robertson should be ashamed that he is advocating for something that the church would not advocate for. this behavior is in no way godly. >> and the last one to you, yashar ali, "new york times" reports the attorney representing eric bolling, michael j. bowe, is from cast oh wits, benson and torres. he represented bill o'reilly who was ousted in april over sexual harassment allegations. do you feel this is fox world trying to shut down a line of inquiry by journalists into the culture as regards sexual harassment at that establishment? >> i don't think it is fox world as much. they really haven't offered him much support.

they do give much of a statement when i called last friday, suspended him almost immediately. this is about -- this firm was used by folks at fox. word gets around, start using the same lawyers. important to note that my lawyer is rush limbaugh's lawyer, appeared on sean hannity, and is a republican. so i am matching him here in terms of someone who can't be accused of being some, you know, democratic show. i certainly wouldn't want to deal with patty glazer. >> somebody will be soon. thank you very much, appreciate you guys being here. i want to let viewers know, we reached out to eric bolling's attorney about the story and accusation that heldman-made. we have not just gotten a response. what if yesterday's white supremacist rally had been a muslim rally.

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why are so many in the white house struggling to call the acts of violence in charlottesville acts of terrorism? would we have seen a different response from the president had yesterday's white supremacist protesters be of a different creed, nationality, religion? more of that next on "am joy." isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can.

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would the response to charlottesville be different if the suspect didn't look like this? joining me now is dean. you wrote back in may, will donald trump ever say the word white supremacist terrorism? you said, trump refuses to call these acts what they are, white supremacist terrorism. he slammed hillary for refusing

to use the word radical islamic terrorism. what do you make of his struggle to use the words domestic terrorism regarding charlottesville or to talk about nazis or name them? >> this is strategic. we know that donald trump doesn't want to alienate his base. david duke made very clear, we voted you in, not the leftist, which means the people of color or muslims or jews. i wrote the article at the end of may after the terror attack in portland by a right-wing terrorist who killed two people on a train for standing up for a muslim. in new york in march, james johnson came up from baltimore for the purpose of killing white people. he killed one and was arrested and charged with terrorism. another man in maryland. my point was, donald trump put the resources in to defining white supremacist terrorism and

maybe the 32-year-old paralegal would be alive today if donald trump didn't play politics with people's lives and that's what he did here. >> eric holder tweeted, if isis rammed a car into a crowd, this would be labeled quickly and logically. call it what it is. domestic terrorism. let's listen to h.r. mcmaster on "meet the press" this morning. >> i think what terrorism is is the use of violence to incite terror and fear and of course it was terrorism. certainly i think we can confidently call it a form of terrorism. >> if his national security adviser can do it, why do you think it's so hard for trump to do it? >> i don't think there's a reason to suspect that he recognizes white terrorism. he may believe those are contradiction in terms based upon his reluctance to name it and refer to it as such. if you even think about it, when we look at the atrocity at the

pulse nightclub, he had no hesitation to referring to it as terrorism or referring to it as terror. and so in his mind he can only understand it as people as color. and what eric holder said is true. these are the same types of attacks like in manchester. >> dean, what would this have looked like if this had been a muslim driving that car? >> donald trump would have instantly declared it an act of terrorism. he would have railed against the court for not allowing him to do his muslim ban. and you know what, i think he explored the issue of internment

camps and we've had at least four attacks by white supremacist terrorists. it's unstunning. he'll say hillary clinton should be arrested and he won't denounce white supremacist terrorists. they get the mess averagage. look at david duke. he hears it. he knows it. thanks donald trump, they are out in the light. >> we should point out that statistically, the majority of the attacks that we have seen since 9/11 have been from right wing extremists. this is a vital dynamic, vibrant form of extremism and terrorism that we have to confront and not only this, in february of this year, he removed white

extremists from the conversion of extremism program that they had, that they were running in federal government, to try to address, you know, the ways in which people are being radicalized. he said he wanted the program to solely focus on muslims. >> really quickly, before we run out of time, donald trump has a way of names enemies that he thinks are important. this was a new ad put out today by the trump re-election campaign. please take a look. >> democrats obstructed, the media attacking our president. career politicians standing in the way of success. but president trump's plan is working. the president's enemy doesn't want him to succeed but americans are saying let president trump do his job. >> i'm donald trump and i approve this message. >> what do you think of donald trump naming his enemies today and it's not white supremacist or domestic terrorists. >> you would not believe that this person has a 38% approval

rating, based upon that. >> it's stunning. jelani, had that been a black lives matter protest, how would that look? >> i'm sorry. we're out of time. dean and jelani, thank you. "am joy" will be back next saturday. stay with msnbc. ♪ hey, is this our turn? honey...our turn? yeah, we go left right here. (woman vo) great adventures are still out there. we'll find them in our subaru outback. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get 0% apr financing for 63 months on all new 2017 subaru outback models. now through august 31.

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