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at the brokaw news center in los angeles. i want to show you this extraordinary scene that just played out an hour ago at charlottesville, virginia, where jason kesler was trying to speak at a press conference before being drowned out by protesters. take a listen, everybody. >> i want to tell you the story of what really happened before this narrative is -- [ protests screaming ] >> when he tried to speak again, the protesters actually surrounded him. watch this. [ yelling ]

>> get out of here! >> and just moments after that happened, police actually grabbed kesler and escorted him out. we've got that tape. >> get out! get out! we hate you! >> it didn't stop there. there was another confrontation and police had to take one of the protesters down to the ground. watch.

eventually, police were able to get kesler away from the scene there. maya rodriguez is live in charlottesville, virginia, where she's been for over the past 24 hours following this story. maya, what more do we know about what we just watched take place just moments ago? >> reporter: well, jason kesler started his remarks by saying police didn't do enough, in his opinion, to sort of stop the violence that broke out yesterday. so he was laying some of the blame at the feet of police and city leaders here, but as you saw, the crowd very quickly drowned him out. what is not clear at this point is who were these people? it's not clear if they were residents of charlottesville or counterprotesters still in town or a combination of both. but you may be able to hear they were yelling out things like

murderer and go home. the go home sentiment is something that was echoed by the governor of virginia. he spoke to our nbc's tom costello earlier today. take a listen. it does not sound like we have that audio, but you had the governor, governor terry mcauliffe basically saying he wanted to see these white nationalists, neo-nazis, not just out of the town, but out of the state and out of the country. we can tell you here in charlottesville itself, things are beginning to get back to normal. we've seen a lot of the barricades that were up ahead of this rally, they've been removed. we had crews out here cleaning the streets this morning, picking up all of the garbage and the police chief just came by here moments ago, told us they are going to start reopening final streets that were closed off because of this rally, so things are getting back to normal here, albeit very slowly. jacob? >> yeah, maya, specifically some of the stuff that terry

mcauliffe said, i don't know who these people think they are, these white supremacists, these nazis, get out of the country, get out of my state, but get out of this country, we don't want you. you are not helping us. there you go. nbc's maya rodriguez in charlottesville. we'll check back later. thanks a lot. the suspect in the charlottesville attack, james alex fields jr. remains in police custody, expected to face four charges, including one count of second-degree murder. joining me now is kendall coffey, former prosecutor and former u.s. attorney kristen clarke, executive director for the lawyers committee of civil rights under law. kendall, i'd like to begin with you. is this a case straight up of domestic terrorism? >> well, it's certainly got a lot of indicators of that. right now they are only charging him with second-degree murder and some lesser offenses. that's a place holder. both the state and the federal authorities are examining closely what evidence they can develop in order to nail down

the motivation, hate crime, we saw dylann roof successfully prosecuted, sentenced to death for hate crimes after he murdered nine in charleston church. is it domestic terrorism if he was intending to coerce or intimidate a civilian population, then that element will also fit. and virginia state authorities also know how to deal with these cases. you may recall the d.c. sniper, john mohammed, he wound up convicted of capital murder for, in part, attempting to intimidate a civilian population with a various murders spread around the d.c. and virginia areas back some years ago. >> you know, kristen, fields is being charged with second-degree murder. do you think that charge fits the crime as we know of it today? >> you know, it's too early to say, but what most certainly is true is that these first early hours after a crime like this, they are truly critical, and the federal government, the u.s.

department of justice has unique tools in its arsenal, unique expertise in this area that really matter. i was very discouraged when i heard attorney general sessions suggest that he would just let the locals and states handle this matter alone. it's critical that he step in. i'm glad that he changed course, and is deploying the fbi and the justice department to go and investigate the acts committed by this individual. we don't know whether he acted alone. we know he is part of a group called vanguard america, a group that espouses white supremacist views. it's unclear whether there is some conspiracy afoot, whether there are other acts that may be under way. we need the justice department in this case right now to send a strong signal to all of the alt-right and white supremacist organizers that were on the ground yesterday, that if you

commit violence, if you commit a hate crime, the federal government will come down on you and investigate and prosecute to the fullest extent permissible under law. >> this group, vanguard america, said fields is not a member of the group. we reported that earlier today, but does that even matter? what do we know about whether or not he is a so-called terrorist, whether or not this is considered a lone wolf attack. we've heard so many times in past incidents, you know, where is that line when we call this domestic terrorism and truly a hate crime? >> if there is one word that doesn't matter right now, it's the word of people who are out marching violently yesterday. there are a lot of unanswered questions, and we don't know whether mr. fields was a formal member of vanguard america, but he certainly stood shoulder to shoulder with them yesterday, held up their shield, and

everything that we have seen so far from social media, to statements made by those who know him, including former teachers, made clear that he is somebody who is a white supremacist, he is somebody who embraces the views of the alt-right, and yesterday he used his vehicle as a weapon to take an innocent life of an american who was standing up and speaking out against what unfolded in charlottesville yesterday. we need the heavy hand of the government to step in and to interrogate and investigate all of the organizations that had a hand in yesterday's tragic march so that we can get to the bottom of what happened and to find out whether there were other acts of violence that may have been intended to have been carried out yesterday. >> kendall, real quick before we go, do you think the alt-right movement is being emboldened by the administration's failure, specifically, very specifically, the president of the united states' failure to condemn these

attacks as terrorist attacks and quote, unquote, racism? >> well, i think accountability belongs on the individual, and it's certainly a complex political dynamic we have in this country right now, but at the end of the day something motivated this guy to get into a car and speed up and take human life. i don't think that's anything he can blame on the president or anything but himself. i think that's the way the prosecutors, state and federal, will be examining this case. >> all right, kendall coffey, kristen clarke, thank you both very much for joining me on this sunday. appreciate it. new reaction today regarding the president's remarks following yesterday's tragic events in charlottesville, virginia. watch this. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides, on many sides. >> the white house releasing a

new statement this morning in an effort to clarify the president's choice of words. the president said very strongly the statement reads in his statement yesterday that he condemns all forms of violence, bigotry, and hatred. of course, that includes white supremacists, the kkk, neo-nazis, and all extremist groups. he called for national unity and bringing all americans together. that is a quote from the white house this morning. i want to go now to bridgewater, new jersey, not far from the president's bedminster estate where we find nbc's kelly o'donnell. kelly, essentially we are seeing a firestorm on all sides, both sides of the aisle in reaction to what the president had to say or more accurately what he didn't have to say yesterday. >> very much so. both democrats, outside types of groups, republicans, allies of the president, a very broad cross section of notable voices and the general public saying the president needed to be more specific, needed to say more, needed to not use a vague description for a very specific

set of awful events that played out in charlottesville. the white house, obviously heard that criticism and without the president's signature or his own name on this today, put out an anonymous statement, meaning no specific white house official put this to his or her name, but did try to explain that gap in what the president did not say. part of what this fallout has included is the reaction of those alt-right groups, white nationalist groups, and others in that category who on various websites that are supportive of their point of view saw the president's lack of calling them out specifically as a positive. that raised real concerns for south carolina republican senator lindsey graham, who is often a critic of the president, but also supportive of him at various issues at various times. in this instance lindsey graham said president trump really needs to do more to send a signal, especially to those groups. >> when it comes to president trump, i'm with cory gardner, he missed an opportunity to be very

explicit here. these groups seem to believe they have a friend in donald trump and the white house. i don't know why they believe that, but they don't see me as a friend in the senate, and i would urge the president to dissuade these groups that he's their friend. >> so it's a sunday during his vacation, working vacation, there were no public events today. that wouldn't have been very unexpected for most days, but it is notable today in the face of all this criticism when the president is usually very quick to counterpunch, as he likes to say, his critics or to expand his opinion on twitter that he has not done so. he has not instructed his top officials to say something more explicitly. there were senior members of the administration on the sunday talk shows who gave comments similar to what the written statements said, that the president was inclusive of these groups, even though he didn't name them, and so far we're waiting to hear from the president and nothing yet in the fallout of all of this. jacob? >> it is a quiet day on twitter

for the president, indeed. nbc's kelly o'donnell, thanks very much. joining me now, political reporter with "the los angeles times" and politics reporter for "the daily beast." seema, i want to start with you. the white house statement we were just reading, looking to deflect some of that criticism by the president. why did this not come directly from the president? >> that's the big question. republican senators are calling on him to strongly condemn this, to use the words white supremacist and domestic terrorism, they want to see it come from the president's mouth, not an anonymously sourced statement. beyond that, this was a real test for the president and americans in times of tragedy, natural disasters, school shootings, we look to our leaders. this was a missed opportunity for the president. >> let me go to you. i want to play charlottesville mayor michael singer reacting to president trump's alliances. let's all watch that and talk about it on the other side.

>> sure. >> old saying, when you dance with the devil, the devil doesn't change -- the devil changes you. and i think they made a choice in that campaign, a very regrettable one, to really go to people's prejudices, to go to the gutter. i mean, these influences around the country, these anti-semites, racists, nazis, kkk, they were always in the shadows. it's now on the prosecuesident all of us to say enough is enough. this movement has run its course. >> so how does the white house ultimately deal with that dance with the devil we just heard the mayor talk about, the alt-right allegiance that backs trump going forward and also the alt-right looks up to in the white house, bannon, miller, gorka, for instance? >> well, for the time being the president and the white house's current public statements on this issue have really irked a lot of republicans for not, obviously, not specific or not forceful enough.

it sort of amounted to the all lives matter equivalent of denunciation in all of this. >> right, right. >> look, i spoke to multiple white house aides about trump's speech yesterday. there was no chance that he was going to ever call out his neo-nazi or white nationalist supporters in it. in fact, he cared way more about emphasizing the rule of law and the restoration of law and order, which, of course, he said in the speech and follow-up tweets yesterday. people who were hoping for the president to come out, to say that even something as simple as my neo-nazi supporters are bad, they were out of luck and, quite frankly, if you were expecting that, you haven't been following the actions of this presidency. >> why, seema, can he not just do that simple thing, my neo-nazi supporters are wrong, they are vile, they are full of hate? is it bannon, is it gorka, is it miller? >> that's the question.

we know he has people within his environment who have ties to, for example, steve bannon when he was the leader of breitbart, they declared breitbart was the platform for the alt-right. i'm not saying they are neo-nazis or supremacists, but they have links to the group. beyond that it's really curious, because in every other case the president has never shied away from specifically naming who he's angry at, whether it's megyn kelly, the pope, he's always very specific and harsh on twitter, on statements, and he blasted president obama and hillary clinton for not being willing to name our enemies, not saying radical islamic terrorism, saying if we don't name them, we can't fight them. >> right, the president of the united states cannot utter the word terrorism himself. unfortunately, guys, we have to leave it there. appreciate you both being here on this sunday. thanks a lot. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. the events of yesterday, the latest in what's appeared to be an uptick in hate-related attacks. a look at whether these types of crimes are really on the rise and what could be fuelling them. we have just learned that

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hate crimes have reportedly risen since the november 2016 election. the southern poverty law center noted over 1,000 bias-related incidents in the month following the election alone, with a third of those directly referencing president trump or his campaign rhetoric, and the center for the study of hate and extremism at california state university also found a spike in hate crimes reported by police. a 20% increase during the election year and a rise in bias crimes after november 8th. joining me, brian ledden, director for the center of the

city of hate and extremism who conducted the report and ryan lenz. good to have you both with me. i want to start with you, you and i watched this unfold yesterday. your report found this 20% increase in 2016, but what's happened since then actually in terms of trends in hate crimes is part of what we saw play out yesterday. what are we seeing this year? >> yeah, some great stuff. that 20% was for the very small number of the smallest cities in the united states. we brought it out to the 25 larger cities and counties that we looked at in the united states, the increase was 6%, but in major cities like new york and chicago, well over 20%. los angeles 15%. in 2017 now what we're seeing in a limited number of cities under ten, but some of the largest ones like new york, d.c., chicago, we've seen an increase in every single jurisdiction that we had data for, year to

date for 2017. so 2016 what we saw, hate crimes increased in the larger cities, much more so than overall, but in the 25 jurisdictions that we looked at, a 6% increase and the largest cities many of them over 20% in to 2017, we're seeing thin crease, as well. one other quick thing about hate groups, we've seen these member rallies where we're having scores and scores of people showing up, instead of a couple dozen, we're seeing much more of those in the last couple of years than we have in many years previous, so we are hitting some kind of inflection point here and i think hate incidents are rising more than hate crimes, and my friend from the southern poverty law center will talk about his showing of an increase of 3% overall in hate groups, but a tripling of anti-muslim groups. >> right, and what you talked about was what we saw play out on friday night with the tiki

torches out there on uva. speak to what brian stais talki about. i know you have this map of hate groups spread across the united states. how many of those -- here it is, how much of those are white extremist groups such as neo-nazis, members of the kkk? >> 917 hate groups, every one is a extremist group extremi, a ha. in terms of intimidation and harassment across the country, that number has since risen. since election day, we are looking at more than 1,800 incidents of hateful intimidation and harassment across this country. that's a distinct departure from patterns in the past and clearly indicative of a legitimizing of these ideologies. >> can you, ryan, speak to some of what we are seeing play out today, some of the young men who are there in charlottesville say they are not racists, not neo-nazis, we've heard an

insistence of this nebulous term that breitbart likes to use rather than saying they are supremacists, racists, neo-nazis. can we forget about the semantic differences? what is a difference between a white supremacist and a white nationalist? >> nothing. there's not a single -- sorry. >> go ahead, ryan, then brian i'll come to you. >> it's okay, i'll chime in after. >> okay, there really is no difference. white nationalism is ultimately an expression of white supremacy, which believes that the united states is fundamentally and originally intended for white people. you know, so white nationalism has since sort of morphed as a term into what we call the alt-right. >> brian, real quick, any difference between white nationalists, white supremacists, neo-nazi? >> it's the same corn flakes, different box. bottom line is, white supremacists are biological determinists, white nationalists are using slightly different

terminology that our culture is better and under attack, but basically terrori basically it's the same ball of wax. make no mistake. the president must respond to this. it is killing the moral worth of his presidency. we can all agree that god created us equally, and one quick thing about what -- >> sure, then we have to run. ten seconds left, brian. >> sure. our research has found there was, indeed, an election time spike in most places, not so much the midwest, but most places, and a spike after president trump made his muslim ban proposal. words matter. mr. president, step up to the bat. step up to the plate. >> let's not forget this president of the united states is the man who some call the birther in chief, tracking in racial conspiracies many years before he was a candidate for president. thank you both very much. coming up still ahead, what we are learning about the woman killed in yesterday's violent

clashes in charlottesville, virginia, and how she is being remembered. stay with us here at msnbc. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century. this august visit your local volvo dealer to receive sommar savings of up to $4,500.

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32-year-old heather heyer was in the crowd when she was struck by the vehicle and killed. her mother spoke to nbc news just moments ago about her daughter. >> heather, her entire life has been passionate about justice for everyone and fairness, and fair treatment, and you better be able to explain to her why something was true or not true, why it had to be that way. as a child, that could be maddening. as a parent, that could be difficult and challenging, but nevertheless, i encouraged and allowed her to be strong willed, not that i probably could have changed her even if i wanted.

but it was important to her to speak up for people that she felt were not being heard, to speak up when injustices were happening, and she saw in the lives of many of her african-american friends particularly and her gay friends that equal rights were not being given. >> absolutely heartbreaking to watch. that was susan bro, the mother of heather heyer, the 32 paralegal killed yesterday in charlottesville, virginia. amplifying concerns over a global divide in the country. next we'll take a closer look why many americans think race relations have been worse than they have been in decades. rethink your allergy pills. flonase sensimist allergy relief uses unique mistpro technology

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after the racially motivated

los angeles riots and the o.j. simpson verdict, also here in l.a. in the 1990s. that's in addition to 42% of black americans who say they are very dissatisfied with the way african-americans are treated compare to just 15% of whites who share the same view. joining me now, campaign director for the center of american progress action fund, emily tisch-sussman and conservative commentator. good to see all of you. noelle, we saw the images coming out of charlottesville yesterday. just almost impossible to watch. how do we get here as a country? >> you know, i don't know how we got here, i don't know how we evolved here, but i will tell you one thing, i think that a lot of people, you know, especially social media, you're seeing this played over and over and over again, so if you weren't angry to begin with, you will sooner or later be angry, but i think what a lot of the protesters, you know, while i think that a lot of the

protesting groups have a great an valid point, i understand and they are totally justified, but a lot of it loses its mission. look at ferguson how that went chaotic. it went beyond the message. look at baltimore, you know, some of these riots, they lose their message or it gets watered down when they have so much violence. i mean, that's one of the things, i think, that is turning a lot of people off for some of these riots and protests, because they turn into, you know, people are damaging property, they are hurting other people, they are killing people. >> i think actually, noelle, there's a legacy of ferguson, of baltimore that carries on today based on the issues of social justice that were raised then. the idea of the alt-right, nationalists, white nationalists, the ku klux klan being on the streets of american cities in 2017. the president has come under fire for the statements he's made, basically not acknowledging this. the idea that hatred, bigotry

and violence on many sides, those are the words he used, he has an inability to call out certain hate groups like the ones i mentioned. how much is he skull culpable and what will be the legalcy of this? >> he has no credibility with the majority of the country when talking about race. he built his campaign stoking white supremacy and allowed them to feel this was an okay place to be. it is already his legacy. the piece of the country that he was talking to at all that would be interested in his message are already white supremacists who are already interested in hearing that, and, in fact, we saw that all over yesterday. on white supremacy sites, kkk sites, david duke, great message, president, really encouraged us. so he's absolutely culpable. the message here is we are not going to get anything from the top if we want to be moving forward on race relations.

it has to be coming from people. >> paraphrasing david duke, this is what we've been waiting for, he said. lenny, after the criticism from both sides of the aisle, just about every corner you could imagine, the white house put out another statement this morning calling out and condemning by name white supremacists, kkk, neo-nazis, supremacist groups. is this statement enough? it did not have anybody's name on it, or is it too little, too late? >> i think this is a learning opportunity and what we have to learn is this, there's a difference between freedom of speech and hearing the drums of war and what we saw this past weekend was the latter, not the former, because you're not going to do much for freedom of speech by the light of tiki torches in the middle of the night. therefore, whether it's president trump all the way down to the everyday conservative across this country, we have to learn to be discerning when it comes to the difference between freedom of speech with a concern

and rallying up those drums of war. that's going to divide this nation, threaten the stability and the sovereignty of this nation by way of an internal threat just the same way we may look at north korea when it looks at an external threat in these current times. >> yesterday said drums of war on "meet the press." this morning h.r. mcmaster called what we saw terrorism. let's watch that. unfortunately, we don't have that clip, but in talking with chuck todd, he used the word specifically terrorism. the president of the united states has yet to use that word, terrorism. what type of message does it send to african-americans, other people of color in this country? >> well, it certainly sends the message that the president does not have your back. unfortunately, this is a message that i think that people of color feel all the time. certainly, coming from the president, but not just from the president, from those around him, and i'd actually say honestly the republican party as a whole. when you create an environment

that allows him to become president, when you're constantly using loaded racial dog whistles when talking about issues, this is what it stokes. unfortunately, this can become the result. we talk about racism and we talk about white supremacy in huge moments like this, but this really should be a mirror for all of us to think about how did we get here. i think it's important to think about that in terms of how we move forward. >> noelle, the torch bearer, richard spencer of alt-right white nationalist fame said he was outraged by what he said was a lack of police protection of them and their first amendment rights. other people criticize the police saying they stood by as the violence escalated. is there anything to this, the police bear some of the blame in yesterday's incident, they with respect weren't as militarized in ferguson or baltimore? >> you have to look at the roots of this. first of all, this group, this kkk, this alt-right, these are horrible people. these are bad people.

i'm so sad that they were even allowed to be able to have the right, and i know, you know, everybody, we all love the first amendment, we all want the right to be able to say and do and freedom, yeah, but these are bad people. and one of the things that i've never understood, if they can come out, kkk, this is nothing but hate-filled, spewed, horrible messaging, it's awful, but why can't we have the crips and the bloods? why is this group allowed to be able to do this? i think with groups that have nothing but hate and nothing but nastiness, i think that those groups, if they are going to protest, should just do it by silence, because this is absolutely horrible. it's not -- it doesn't build anything. it's not a message that anyone really wants to hear. everybody, from the right, to the left, nobody has said on television that i have heard that this is an awesome thing that they were allowed to protest. so i think we really need to look and go back and take a step back and say, groups that are allowed to protest like this, with this hateful crappy

message, shouldn't they actually have some sort of ruling to where they can just protest in silence, because if they are allowed to do this and allowed to spread such hatred and nastiness, then what's the difference of just having a group of bloods and crips and everybody else with horrible messaging to come out to our city streets? >> the question becomes, lenny, and i'd like you to weigh in here, do we want to be encroaching on people's first amendment rights and civil liberties, even in a horrific situation like this. >> no, we simply do not. but the difference is, when you start talking from a point of freedom of speech, it then becomes a call to action to divide america, threaten americans, and comes to divide what we're trying to build here in the 21st century from a sense of sovereignty and increased prosperity. i don't mind them being hateful in the privacy of their own home and they are allowed freedom of speech, but when that speech becomes a call to action to

threaten my family, my community, or other americans regardless of the diversity from which we come from, therein lies the problem. that's when you start crossing the line from constitutional protection to violating state and possibly even federal law, and that's where we have to be vigilant. that's where we have to have discernment, and that's where we need to be united as the united states of america, not people on opposite sides trying to view this from a political lens when this is an american problem. >> well, i'm -- >> unfortunately, we got to run, but that is something we've heard from both sides of the aisle today. appreciate you being here today. i appreciate it, again, thanks a lot, and we will be right back. where are we?

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should stay out of the way of the water canon, my friend, and try to keep yourself dry if you can. >> it's a little late. we return now to pictures, live pictures from seattle, washington, where a planned alt-right protest planned in advance of yesterday's deadly attack in charlottesville, virginia, is now under way. this is actually supposed to start scheduled to start about an hour from now, but counterprotesters have, of course, already begun, i should say, to gather in the streets of seattle, washington. we know police are on the scene

of this planned protest, and you can see them as our nbc news cameraman approaches the police line there. they appear to be dressed in tactical outfitting by probably for nothing more than to be prepared in the wake of the deadly attack yesterday in virginia. we know that terry mcauliffe is planned to speak in about an hour from now in a planned vigil. you see the marchers walking in seattle, washington. this is something that police will have to treat sensitively given how what we saw play out yesterday. i wantto turn now to more on yesterday from charlottesville. the events there yesterday stem, of course, from the city's decision to relocate the confederate statue of robert e. lee. cities have been debating how to handle confederate monuments for some time now and since dylan

ro rooff murdered, it became the center of attention. they scaled that 30-flood flag pole and hard to forget that the and she removed that flag herself. she was then arrested and we are lucky to have brie join us now. thanks for being with us. you took these matters into your own hand to remove the flag in charleston. what are your thoughts when you see other communities protesting symbols of the confederacy? >> well, i think that this is a really important moment in history that's happening right now and we have the ongoing battle against flags, statues, monuments and symbols and what this is about is a struggle how we're understanding our history because history informs how we understand the present moment and it's important to recognize a larger context. we are at a point where we are really having to confront structural racism not just as

it's existed historically in the chattel slavery and also in the form of segregation that existed before the civil rights movement and as it exists today in the form of mass incarceration in the ongoing struggle over voter suppression, for instance. so a lot of this focus on monuments is really a proxy battle in a lot of ways for the ongoing reality of structural racism as it exists in both policy and social practice. >> and i thought it was helpful that "the new york times" pointed out that in charlottesville, virginia, half of the residents during the civil war were actually enslaved. this is an area where thomas jefferson is still revered and of course, he was a slave owner himself. when you talk about these protests over confederate statues and flags and proxy battle the real issue is systemic racism. can you talk about how that is playing out on the streets of the united states today and how what we saw yesterday is an outgrowths of that?

>> yes, well, absolutely. let's take the statue of robert e. lee in charlottesville, for example. it itself is a symbol of systemic racism. this statue was e vekted during what's known as the nadier of civil rights and this is when lynch of african-americans was at its peak and this is when people who were pro-confederate came back to power after the assassination of lincoln and after the fall of reconstruction and they began pushing an alternate history of the confederacy down playing the role of slavery and erecting mop ups to the confederacy. so when we flash forward to about 100 years later, the fact that we have not truly dealt with the actual history and the fact that we are confronting a century of miseducation, deliberate miseducation around

this history, that's part of why we have an event like what we had in charlottesville yesterday, and the only real way for us to confront this, and the only real way for us to have a future where we don't have this kind of violence anymore is to not only make sure that we are having the proper education around this history, but that we're also being honest about the current situation. racism is not over. when you look at communities not only like charlottesville and also in charleston and in south carolina where i removed the confederate flag, the legacy of slavery and segregation is very much present. it's an ever-present thing and it's one thing to condemn the violence that we saw yesterday, but we need to see legislatures and leaders also taking a stand and examining how racism exists in the form of policy. what are we doing to make sure that the schools are not recession regaited as they have? most of our schools are

segregated as they were prior to the civil rights movement. what are we doing to do to suppress voter suppression? the voting rights act didn't survive intact until 50 years. we've had a real issue going on here in north carolina with not only voter suppression, but also our districts being racially gerrymandered. so even if you are exercising your right to vote you are not being properly represented, because the people of color having a voice in the government. that's what i mean when we talk about systemic racism. i would also add that i think it is very dangerous at this moment to discuss any of the present events that are happening without placing them in the larger historical context. i see a lot of false equivalency being laid this conversation about it being many sides that are involved, but you know, we have to talk about white supremacy, not just in the fom

of ku klux klan and ideology as awe way that has governed for many years. >> unfortunately, we have to leave it there and i'd love to talk to you at length some other time and i appreciate you joining us this sunday. that does it for us on msnbc. i'm jacob soberoff out here in los angeles. we have coverage of the rallies now undergoing in seattle. stay tuned right here. [upbeat music] >> announcer: no one loves a road trip like your furry sidekick! so when your "side glass" gets damaged...

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welcome, everybody. you're watching msnbc. we're following some breaking news out of seattle, washington, where another alt-right movement is happening there as we're dealing with the fallout from charlottesville, virginia and we're watching this alt-right rally in seattle, washington. marchers calling themselves the freedom rally. the seattle times quoting them as when they come they bring violence, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and