this sunday -- violence in this sunday, violence in virginia. >> if you do not disperse, you will be arrested. >> white protesters clash with protesters in charlottesville. one person is killed when a car plows into the crowd. we'll have a report from the scene this morning and i'll talk to the mayor of charlottesville, michael sigler. the president denounces the disturbance, but not the neo-nazis nor the klan participants. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. >> did the president fail his first test as healer in chief?

dhe presidens tough talk on north korea. it started here. >> they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. >> went to hear -- >> if anything, maybe that statement wasn't tough enough. >> and landed here -- >> he utters one threat he will truly regret it. and he will regret it fast. >> is it all bluster? or a necessary warning to a rogue nation with nuclear weapons? i'll ask national security adviser h.r. mcmaster, and the former chairman of the joint chiefs admiral mike mullen. joining me for inside analysis are joy reid host of am joy on msnbc. rich laurie, editor of the national review. amy walter national editor telephone cook political report. and helene cooper, correspondent for "the new york times." welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history celebrating

its 70th year. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. in the opening months of his presidency, many of us have wondered how president trump would respond to the type of crisis when the nation looks to its president. could he lead? could he inspire? could he heal? he didn't have one test this week. he has had two. we'll get to the north korea situation later. but yesterday, we've received another reminder of just how volatile the race and extremism can be in america today. violent clashes broke out in charlottesville, virginia, between white nationalists protesting the removal of a robert e. lee statue and counter protesters. shortly after the virginia governor terry mcauliffe declared a state of emergency and the clashes broke up, a car plowed into a crowd of counterprotesters, killing one person and injuring 19 others. the fbi has now opened a civil rights investigation into the incident, adding to an all tragic day, a chopper carrying two virginia state police

officers who were hovering in the air monitoring the violence crashed a few miles outside of the city. both officers were killed. here is how charlottesville city manager reacted to the violence. >> hate came the our town tonight in a way that we had feared, but we had never really let ourselves imagine would. >> our own tom costel slow on the ground in charlottesville this morning. i take ate lot more calm this morning than it has been the last 48 hours? >> chuck, good morning to you. we're at the epicenter, that is the statue behind me of general robert e. lee. it is now emancipation park, no longer lee park. this is where the white supremacists came yesterday. we now have an identity on that woman who was killed when the car came barreling through the counter protesters, 32-year-old heather heyer was killed. and we have the name of the suspect arrested. 22-year-old alex fields of ohio charged with second-degree murder, three counts of

malicious wounding, one count of hit-and-run. he will in court tomorrow three. more i'm arrest with disorderly conduct, misdemeanor assault, battery. this got out of hand very, very quickly. but this morning peace in charlottesville and a very heavy police presence. >> i'm going to be talking to the mayor in a minute here there has been some folks they're there questioning the police response yesterday. did they stand back too much. but there was -- there were times when you're watching the video that we saw a lot of armed people. but those weren't police whom. were they? >> well, what's very interesting is that some of these white nationalists and neo-nazis and kkk members apparently came here armed and prepared for battle. they were dressed in this almost paramilitary garb, if you will. they had body armor on. some veterans by the way telephone military say that some of that stuff looks like it came right out of the military. also, they were wearing helmets. they had shields. they had clubs. some of them were actually carrying weapons.

keep in mind this is an open carry state. so they came in to this in a very intimidating fashion. they were met with counter protesters who were determined not to allow the white nationalists to gain any momentum in this town. and as a result, we had the clash literally where i'm standing. what you can't see sat my feet. the street is covered in dye and paint. they is have had bottles and broken bottles and cans all over the streets. they've been picking up that today. but it does appear those individuals, those white supremacists left town yesterday. and they seem to have scattered. we don't know where they all went. we presume they all went back to their homes wherever that might be. but the locals say they didn't recognize any of those white supremacists as locals. they believe they all came from out of state, or many of them from out of state. >> all right, come costello on the ground for us. tom, thank you very much. shortly after the violence in charlottesville broke out, president trump tweet wed all must be united and condemn all that hate stands for. there is no place for this kind of violence in america. let's come together as one.

but it was what the president said later in the day, or more to the point what he didn't say or even tweet that is by far getting the most attention. the president's comments and the sharp reaction to them put a political quota on a day that many feared for weeks in the kind of violence we saw unfold yesterday. >> our streets! >> went flying everywhere. the pedestrians. and i mean, it's the most horrific thing i've ever seen in my life. >> tragedy and violence. a 32-year-old woman killed and 19 injured when a car accelerated into a crowd of counterdemonstrators. police arrested james alex fields of ohio and charged him with one count of second-degree murder. hours later, two state police officers assisting with public safety died when their helicopter crashed. the deaths were a painful end to a violent day, as white nationalists chanting neo-nazi slogans, many carrying weapon,

holding nazi symbols and confederate flags clashed with counterprotesters. over just the past several week, mr. trump has condemned his party's leader in mitch mcconnell and. his response to charlottesville was tepid by comparison. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. >> asked to clarify, an unnamed white house official told nbc news the president was condemning hatred, bigotry and violence from all sources and all day sides. there was protests between protesters and counterprotesters today. >> mr. president, do you want the support of these white national groups who say they support you, mr. president? have you denounce helped the strongly enough? >> some touted donald trump's victory as confirmation for their belief. >> we're determined to take our country back. we're going to fulfill the

promises of donald trump. that's what we believed in. that's why we voted for donald trump. >> mr. trump chose not to condition deem them. many elected republicans seem to agree the president did not go far enough. colorado senator cory gardner who is in charge of getting senate republicans elected in 2018 tweeted mr. president, we must call evil by its name. these were white supremacists, and this was domestic terrorism. florida's marco rubio, quote, very important for the nation to hear potus describe events in charlottesville for what they are, a terror attack by white supremacists. utah senator orrin hatch tweeted my brother didn't give his life fighting hitler for nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. and texas senator ted cruz, quote, the nazis, the kkk, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all of us have a moral obligation to speak out. and joining me now is the mayor of charlottesville, michael s signer.

i know it's been a tough 48 hours for you. let me just ask you this right now. 24 hours later do you look back and what they you could do done better or is this something no city can prepare for? >> thanks, chuck. first i start by saying that our thoughts and prayers are with burk bates and pack cullen, the two police troopers who lost their lives and heather heyer, the civilian who was killed it's clear in that terrorist attack with a car used as a weapon. our hearts are grieving right now. and three people died who didn't need to die. charlottesville someone of the great cities in the world. and we're a southern city too. we're very progressive and tolerant. but we made a decision a year and a half ago to start telling the full story of race in our city, and our past, to tell the truth. and that put us on the map for a

whole bunch of folks in this country who oppose everything about that. so what we saw this weekend was a deluge of outsiders trying to intimidate us away from th work. but to your question, we had the largest assembly of law enforcement personnel in the assembly since 9/11. they were charged with one mission, which was setting the conditions for people to peaceably express themselves and assemble. that -- you know, they didn't do that starting right at the beginning. so unlawful assembly was properly called. and events unfolded from there. but we're going to move past this. the healing has just begun here. well have important work to do in our democracy and we're going to get going on that now. this is the city to do that. >> you on the one hand thanked the president for condemning the violence. but you added this. i do hope he looks in the mirror himself and thinks very deeply about who he consorted with during the campaign.

what are you referring to there? >> old saying. when you dance with the devil, the devil doesn't -- the devil changes you. and i think they made a choice that that campaign, a very regrettable one to really go to people's prejudices, to go to the gutter. these influences around the country, these anti-semites, racist aryans nazis, kkk, they're always in the shadows. but they've really been given a key and a reason to come into the light. that's exactly what happened last week. if you look through the chatter online, they said this will be a shot heard around the world. this will be alt-right 2.0 in charlottesville. the time has come for this to stop. this should be a turning point. this movement jumped the shark and it happened yesterday. people are dying. and i do think that it's now on the president and on all of us to say enough is enough. this movement has run its course. >> mr. mayor, i know it's been tough. i know you got students coming in.

uva session is about to begin, freshmen. i will pass on to them. and i know you will. charlottesville is great city and a very safe city. >> thank you. it is. it is. >> and a bunch of outsiders can't mess it up. >> if anything we're going get better. thank you. let's jump to the imagine. rich lowry, editor of the national review, helene cooper, correspondent for "the new york times," amy walter and joy rei . i'm going to read from your publication today. david french wrote this. if there ever was a time in recent political history for an american president to make a clear unequivocal statement against the alt-right, it was today. instead we got a vague condemnation of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. this sun acceptable especially given that trump can be quite specific when see is truly angry. just ask the khan family, judge curiel, james comey or any other person he considers a personal enemy. >> you had david duke name

checking the president of the united states, which you would have thought made it all the morn important for the president to be specific denouncing these white supremacists. this is a moment the president could have elevated himself. instead he came up small. that's one of the reasons you've seen such a premium on the other statements on moral clarity given the president's ambiguity. >> joy, it was amazing to see that. it was almost as if the republicans republican party was waiting to see what he would do. he is on an island. >> he is. donald trump failed the fundamental test of leadership. and that was an easy test for any president of the united states to clear. this is the country that heroically swooped in during world war ii. the idea that the president of the united states cannot unambiguously denounce nazism is extraordinary. and donald trump has placed himself in a history there is no way that i think the american people could have contemplated

that their president cannot uneegivecally condemn david duke and nazis. and he couldn't and he didn't. >> you know, the president's you can't defeat terrorism if you can't call it islamic terrorism. well, you can't unify the country without calling out hatred and bigotry. and there is no unity there is no way that you can say there are both sides to this or equal sides to this bigotry there was one group that was bigoted and hateful and racist. and then there was the anti-group. and what's curious iso see wher we go from here. the going to choose after he is getting, as you pointed out, denounced by all sides. will he choose tomorrow to come out and make a stronger statement? >> he hasn't tweeted this morning, helene. >> no. >> i think there hasn't been the clarification. there hasn't been any of that. i want to throw in what michael gerson, "washington post"

columnist, he wrote this. if great words can heal and inspire, base words can corrupt. trump has been delivering the prejudice in small but increasing doses. the president had no intention of decisively repudiating his work. gerson going farther saying this was not just a choice but a strategy almost. >> that's -- i think that's a really interesting point to make. i think president trump has had probably his worst week this past week. and that's because in the two instances that you alluded to earlier in the program, he has sort of fulfilled every fear that his critics and a lot of people had about him when he became president. and that is one, because of his campaign and because of the side of america that he brought out in his campaign. that he would not be able to detach himself from these white supremacists who him elected and who has put in his government and in the white house. that's one. that's always been a big fear.

and the other two is that he would be -- the other great fear that people had before he became president was that he would be too loose and this is not somebody that you necessarily might want in charge of a button that can launch a nuclear weapon. this is not somebody that you want receiving the 3:00 a.m. phone call. and with the way he has handled north korea this past week, and then shockingly, shockingly what he did yesterday and what he failed to do yesterday just feeds that. people think that this is what they expected. >> i do think he should have obviously specifically denounced the white nationalists. but there are two sides to this now. the country has a violent fringe on the right and left. the so-called anti-fascist who like violence, thrill to violence, like the attention that comes to it. and that is going toe get worse before it gets better. >> can i say i think helene made a good point. this is an unambiguous evil that is plaguing the country.

but helene made the crucial point. one of the reasons that donald trump cannot properly respond to what was an obvious proper response from an american president is the people in his government. who is writing the talking points that he was looking down and reading from? he has people like stephen miller, claimed as a mentee, steve bannon who has been allowed to meld into the normalcy of a governmental employee, who who ran breitbart.com which i reread today the post that is still on their website where they self-describe as the home of the alt-right. what is the alt-right? it's a dressed up time for white nationalism. they call themselves white identi identity. that is who is in his government. sebastian gorka, who would the middle of a nazi organization, being paid by the taxpayer in the government of donald trump, the bloggerichael anton in the

government. he is surrounded by these people. it isn't both sides. he is in the white house. they're this the white house with him. >> look, you have so-called anti-fascist who dressed in black, wear masks. >> were they beating clergy yesterday? >> there is violence on both sides. yes there was. you didn't see the video? >> beaten with brass knuckles by neo-nazis. >> anti-fascists also beat people up break things and burn things. they both should be condemned. i want the alt-right to be as limited as possible. i want it to go away and die. but you're not doing folks on my side any favors by defining it so widely that it includes stephen miller and mike anton. that's what you want. you're helping them by defining them so widely. >> have you read the blog post that they have posted? >> mike anton is a white nationalist? that's crazy. >> i'm going to pause it here because we're going to take a break and have the -- keep

having this conversation, i promise. change it a little bit. but you guys will have the chance to continue. when we come back, we'll continue our coverage of the violence in charlottesville and the possible mainstreaming of these white nationalists in our political system. we'll be right back. (boy) and these are the lungs. (class) ewwww! (boy) sorry. (dad) don't worry about it. (mom) honey, honey, honey, honey! (vo) at our house, we need things that are built to last. that's why we got a subaru. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get 0% apr financing for 63 months on all new 2017 subaru legacy models. now through august 31st. i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there. i can even warm these to help you fall asleep faster.

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and a new culture built around customer service. it all adds up to our most reliable network ever. one that keeps you connected to what matters most. welcome back. in 2017, are we seeing some of these hate groups become mainstream? that's sort of part of the conversation we were having. there are 917 active hate groups in the united states. between 2015 and 2016, we saw a 197% increase in anti muslim hate groups. that was a tripling of its number and a 23% increase in the neo-confederate groups. here is the center's map of all the active hate groups around the country. amy walter, look, it is not new to have this fringe and this -- the republican party for a long time has fought very hard to keep these people out. democratic party pushed them out. republican party pushed them out. until this 2015, there has been

this sense that there was a permission slip. >> i think to take it away from partisanship for a second too, we're talking about a country now that is being divided in so many different ways. the fact that we can't just have this conversation about a country that is diverse and continuing to diversify and how we have to grapple with these issues. we need leaders helping take us there. this debate started in charlottesville over something that is gointo continue in other cities across this country, which is how do we deal with the legacy of slavery? how do we deal with the legacy of the confederacy? this isn't going away. this didn't start in 2016. this has been building and building and building. what we don't have are people that are bringing us back together. instead, we're having a debate over who is responsible for this fringe, who is responsible for that fringe. >> right. you know, jennifer rubin of "the washington post" wrote on this issue of the shrines. and she writes this.

we have erased the fictions that these monuments are about southern heritage. no. they are giant, concrete shrines to white nationalism. a lot of people are going to read that and hear that and get angry on this. >> let them get angry. >> a lot are going to say it's about time. >> no, this is about time. >> that's right. >> it's very hard for me to have this conversation with you as a black woman and not personalize it. but we have talked about this before. we talked about this on the show, about the confederate flag and what black people think when they see that. you talk -- it's impossible given the legacy of slavery there this country and given the -- what black people went through during the civil rights movement, given all of -- these are descendents of the people who were standing outside that public school in new orleans throwing oranges at that little girl as she was being taken in. these are the -- these are the same people. this is the same fight that has been going on in this country for more than 200 years. the idea that we're going to

anger a few white nationalists because we're taking down a statue of robert e. lee, fine, get mad. >> i've been skeptical of the rush to tear all these things down. there's a distension between robert e. lee and nathan bedford forest. an early figure in the klan. but if these monuments are going to become rallying points for neo-nazis, maybe they do all have to go. >> and you wonder, why would you erect a monument? the confederacy waged war on the united states. so the idea of putting up those monuments didn't happen right after the civil war. it happened during the 1960s. it happened over the fight for desegregating schools. these monuments immediately -- in the immediate aftermath of the civil war, no one would have thought of putting up the flag of the confederacy because they were treasonous. in the 1960s, the idea was to make a statement. the statement was being made to black people. it was being made to civil rights advocates that we're going to put up these statues of the confederacy for a very distinct reason. that's why those statues are there.

that's when they went there. >> let me throw this challenge at all four of you. nobody here thinks president trump handled it well. what can he do tomorrow? what can he do tomorrow to at least begin the scabbing process, i guess, to -- >> one possible analogy is when he came out a couple weeks ago after the trip to europe saying there's going to be a u.s. russia cyber security agreement and you had every republican denouncing it and mocking it. then he backed off. maybe he will take a second bite of the apple, sit down somewhere, maybe in the oval office, give a ten minute speech written appropriately and says the right things. it's not hard to do. >> richard painter has given donald trump the way out. he has been tweeting about it repeatedly. he needs to rid his government of the alt right. if there was ever an opportunity to do so, this would be the chance. the bannonites inside of his government are the problem. they are who are wtion the podium they are the source of the

ideological rot inside the white house. >> what i really worry about is that we are going to move from this conversation very quickly because something else is going to be -- some shiny object will get thrown in front of us. we will miss the opportunity to have this conversation. there are few people who are leading this conversation beyond just the violent piece of this. i just fear that by monday, we're going to be moving on to something else. >> when we come back, i'm going to talk to the president's national security adviser h.r. mcmaster about the other big story of the week, north korea. and of course he has had his own run-ins with the alt-right. we'll be right back.

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welcome back. with the nuclear threat and the provocations from north korea growing by the day, much of the world was focused on president trump's somewhat incendiary rhetoric from fire and fury to lock and loaded to how much and how fast kim jong-un will regret attacking or even threatening the united states. the tough talk unnerved some. even as it heartened many of the president's supporters. still, many were asking whether mr. trump's words were bluster or if it's possible we are edging towards a military confrontation with north korea. joining me now is the presideh.. general, welcome to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> before i get started, i gotta ask about charlottesville and perhaps you have had a chance to talk with the president this morning or last night.

why didn't he single out the neo-nazis and white supremacists. >> when he condemned bigotry and hatred on all sides, that includes white supremacist and neo-nazis. it's clear -- i know it's clear in his mind. it ought to be clear to all americans, we cannot tolerate obviously that bigotry, that hatred, that's rooted in ignorance, ignorance of what america stands for. what america is. >> should we expect to hear from you, from him some of those words? >> i'm sure you will hear from the president more about this. this is important to the president to bring all americans together. he said what we have to be is all of us have to be americans first. that's our common identity as americans. grounded in our commitment to liberty, to human rights, to equal rights and to tolerance. tolerance over this kind of hatred and bigotry. >> when you watched all this yesterday, what is your reaction? >> it's heartbreaking. it's heartbreaking. as a soldier, what you see in our military is you see men and women from all walks of life, all different backgrounds come together, come together in their

common commitment to their country and to each other. then you see them in combat fighting for our nation and our values. everybody bleeds the same color. we're bound together as soldiers. we ought to be as a nation, bound together by mutual respect and common commitment to our values. >> was that domestic terrorism yesterday? >> what terrorism is is the use of violence to incite terror and fear. of course, it was terrorism. >> so you do classify that as terrorism. >> from a legal sense, there will be a full investigation. but i think we can call it a form of terrorism. >> as i said before the break, you have had your own run-ins with the alt-right. one of the self-described leaders of the alt-right, the mi tweeted this yesterday about you, mcmaster's media allies are trying to frame bannon for charlottesville. what is going on inside this

white house with you and mr. bannon? >> there's a lot of noise, from my perspective. everybody sees the president assembled a tremendous national security team. it's a great privilege to be able to support and enable people like secretary of state tillerson, secretary of defense mattis, director pompeo, ambassador haley at the united nations. and despite this noise, we're getting quite a bit done in terms of developing and advancing strategies to prioritize the safety and security of the american people and to promote american prosperity. >> i asked about a couple of people individually. first, sebastian gorka. what is his role in the national security council? >> he is not in the security council. >> he seems to represent himself, though, as a spokesperson of national security. why is that? >> the schedulg people for the media and okespeople is not my area of responsibility. what we focus on is coordinating and integrating efforts across the government. with our multinational partners and allies to present the president with options about some of the very serious national security challenges we face today. also options to take advantage of opportunities to secure the

american people and protect the american people and promote american prosperity. >> should his word be taken on national security policy or not? >> i have not seen anything he said lately. i have been focused on -- >> he said rex tillerson -- when he said everybody can sleep well at night, he said to the bbc, we should not take him at his word. military matters aren't his lane. >> we should always take secretary of state tillerson at his word. he is a tremendously talented leader and diplomat. of course what's different, i think, about president trump's approach in this administration is we have been able to achieve a very high integration of military efforts, but really military efforts to support diplomatic efforts and economic efforts. i think what you are seeing with the problems associated with north korea but others as well is a very tight integration of all elements of national power done so in an effort to move forward with our allies and

partners. >> i don't mean to belane their point, but you have -- there was this memo written abia gentleman you have since fired by the name of rich higgins. it was frankly some conspiratorial stuff, marxist. he put everybody in there, global and islamists recognize it muzz be destroyed. hence the sexism, racism, and xenophobia means. i guess i can understand why you got rid of him. is it important to the president that this world view be represented on the national council? >> what's important is we have real work to do in the national security council. and so we have to have people in place who are going to advance that work. what you will see in the national security council is a team of extremely talented and dedicated, unsung heros who work very, very hard to advance the president's agenda, to provide the president with options and then once the president makes decisions to drive -- >> i understand that.

is that world view still represented on this national security council or is that something you have gotten rid of? >> i'm not aware of any world view at all except to serve our nation and to serve the president within the national security council. if there are those who come in with their own narrow agendas that aren't there to enable the president, who aren't there to serve the nation, then there shouldn't be a spot for them. >> the president was asked are we going to war. he said, i think you know the answer to that. we don't. what's the answer? >> well, the answer to that is that the most effective way to prevent war is to be prepared for it. to make sure that there is a viable military option that if necessary you could execute to protect the american people knowing this is the gravest decision that any leader has to make. what we're endeavoring to do is resolve this north korean crisis, a crisis that has grown over the years. as dr. kissinger said in the

editorial in "the wall street journal" this weekend, the approach to north korea has been characterized by provocation and procrastination. we can't procrastinate anymore. the effort is to combine what we are doing diplomatically, economically and with key allies and partners and others including china to resolve this short of any military conflict. >> there's been confusion. has the president drawn a red line? is it a threat from kim jong-un? is it a missile test to guam? can you explain how his words should be interpreted? particularly because he seemed to say the last one even a threat was going to get a response. what's the red line here? >> the president doesn't draw red lines. what he does is he asks us to make sure we have viable options for him, options that combine diplomatic, economic, and military capabilities. that's what we have done. what's critical here is the president through his engagement with world leaders, with our allies, also with china, has with south korea, but also now

with china have recognized really three fundamental things. the first is, this isn't just a u.s. problem. this is a world problem. the second is that china has real influence to be able to cope with this. and the third -- and this is what's most important -- that the goal, the common goal that we have to pursue is denuclearization of the korean peninsula. >> i know tomorrow there's potential -- the president will sign a memo that begins the process of potentially punishing china on some trade practices. are you concerned that that then pushes china away from being part of the solution here in north korea? >> not at all. i think china recognizes that we have to compete. america has to engage with the world. >> so they will separate this? this will not be conflated? >> certainly. the operative word is not punished. the operative word is to compete to demand fair and equitiable trade with all countries, including china. what the president is doing is everything he can to ensure a

fair playing field, to make sure that american workers, american businesses are not disadvantaged by the theft of intellectual property. or other unfair trade or economic practices. >> can you and steve bannon still work together at this white house or not? >> i get to work with a broad range of talented people. it is a privilege every day to enable to national security team. >> you didn't answer. can you and steve bannon work in that same white house? >> i am ready to work with anybody who will help advance the president's agenda and advance the security, prosperity of the american people. >> do you believe steve bannon does that? >> i believe that everyone who works in the white house, who has the privilege, the great privilege every day of serving their nation, should be motivated by that goal. >> general mcmaster, thanks for coming in. >> thank you, chuck. >> appreciate it. when we come back, the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff admiral mike mullen about whether it's time to accept north korea as a nuclear power. match guarantee too. and if that's not enough... we should move.

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welcome back. last night i caught up with mike mullen about the threat north korea poses and how we can keep the warfare from turning into a shooting war no one wants. i began by asking the admiral what he is telling his own family and friends about the apparent escalating with north korea. >> i'm really concerned because i don't know where this goes in terms of a peaceful resolution. it's an incredibly difficult, complex problem. and we have rhetoric -- very strong rhetoric coming from north korea as well as from the united states.

and that rhetoric, it seems to me, has taken away options or it's reduced maneuver space, if you will, for leaders to make decisions. so i'm extremely concerned. and i have heard from family and i have heard from friends about what's going on, who are extremely concerned with where we are and what the outlook is. it seems to be one of forming critical mass. and if this results in a military strike, the unintended consequences of that, the possibility that there are disproportional responses, miscalculations, it just -- it can really get out of control fast. >> the president's rhetoric, let's get to that on north korea. there's been a whole lot of it. we've played it a lot earlier in

the show. is it effective or is it making things worse? >> chuck, for some time i think this actually has to be resolved through beijing. whether or not our president's rhetoric has moved xi jinping or not -- i know they talked recently. whether china actually is able to prioritize this resolution as a high interest to them, a national interest to them is -- will be a big indicator as to whether or not what's going on is in any way moving in the right direction. i think it's got to be resolved politically, diplomatically, through negotiations to ensure that we don't have a military conflict that could get out of control. >> you said you are concerned the rhetoric has limited options. what options are you concerned that the president has eliminated with his rhetoric? >> i think it eliminates

maneuver space for him, because it looks like brinkmanship to me. it looks like clearly he is at least verbally focused very specifically on the military options with the rhetoric that's out there. it's almost a fire and brimstone don't make another move or else. the comment that military options are locked and loaded, we have always had military options. and they are very complex, but they can be executed. it almost seems as if we're leading with those, which makes an awful lot of -- it unsettles a lot of people. >> jim clapper says essentially it's the notion of north koreans denuclearizing -- he called it a non-starter. he essentially says it's time to accept the notion that they're going to be a nuclear regime. we kind of have to move on from that. do you accept that?

>> i don't accept that yet. i recognize that as an option or an outcome. certainly, there is one option is to accept that and then contain him. obviously, the concern you would have with that is somehow he has this weapon. he is still somewhat of an unknown to us. unpredictable and someone that's -- >> do you think he is rational? >> no, i don't think he is rational. >> you do not think he is rationale? >> i do not any he is a rational actor. he has -- i don't think he is a rational actor. he has a rich history in his family, the legacy to uphold. he is on a race to gain this capability. much different from his father or his grandfather in terms of developing capability. he is on a flat out sprint to develop this capability and then see what happens. i just can't bring myself to the point where we say, it's okay if this leader has these devastating weapons.

coming up, why is president trump picking a fight with the one man he needs the most in the united states senate? yeah, at happened is week, too. we'll be right back.

welcome back. i would like to talk a little north korea. general mcmaster, steve bannon, is that a relationship that is going to last the week? anybody? >> it does seem if steve bannon was ever in jeopardy, this would be the time when he would be in the maximum jeopardy. you have stories donald trump is

concerned he is a leaker combined with the fact that his wing of the party is in the glare of the spotlight in the colleague lights because of charlottesville. i think it's a question of whether the kelly mcmaster access can get control of this white house, which i think the majority of americans would like for them to do. >> it was an extraordinary moment. obviously, h.m. mcmaster, he knows washington speak, but he used washington speak three times to answer your question no, i cannot work with steve bannon. >> that's an important point. where are we on north korea? where is jim mattis on north korea? we have been asked this question, how serious is this. >> the last thing that jim mattis or the pentagon or the defense or general mcmaster want or america's top military leaders is any kind of military option on north korea. you heard general mcmaster right now saying, we want to say that there's a viable middle military option.

it's very hard to imagine one that does not end up with retaliation, not against the united states, not even against guam necessarily, but seoul. is about south korea. this is about south korea, 45 minutes from the demilitarized zone. 130,000 americans in seoul. you have more than 3 million foreigners there. you have 25,000 american troops in south korea. there is no way -- any military leader will tell you this. there is no way to strike north korea without putting one of america's biggest allies in jeopardy. that is at the end of the day, that underlies this reluctance to use military option. >> do we need to be more patient with north korea? eventually, this will collapse. i think the chinese think we can be more patient. >> that's an excellent question. the president's rhetoric doesn't suggest we can be. this is really what -- the point

of the mcmaster/bannon question was about is, there's a good cop bad cop going on publically between mcmaster and mattis and tillerson about we can wait, we will do diplomacy. what we don't know going on internally. that really is the bigger question. is this battle that is coming out in the public also happening -- who is making the decisions? who is going to decide whether we can wait or not? we don't have -- we don't have an answer to that. >> that's why what admiral mullen in that interview is so important. he talked about president trump limiting his own options, limiting his own maneuverability by saying, if you even make a threat, if you -- north korea said they were going do missile tests near to guam. he turned that into a threat. he raised the ante to you end up limiting your ability to strike a deal. if north korea goes and does some sort of missile test in the

ma civic, we have now set it up as if -- he will look as if he is backing down. >> isn't the problem that the north koreans and chinese don't believe the united states will act militarily? they have basically called the bluff? >> i see this as more rhetoric around the same old strategy of detaching china from north korea and having negotiations to as tillerson says denuclearize the peninsula. it's not going to stop them. we should adopt a longer term strategy of regime change that in the short-term would be robust policy of deterrence and containment. >> that's the new debate. do we let them have it or not? >> they have it. all that presupposes is a president who can exercise self-control. i don't see evidence he can do that. >> you don't take everything at

his word at first. back with end game and what's the outbreak of the cross fire between the president and mitch mcconnell. ♪ ♪ hey, is this our turn? honey...our turn? yeah, we go left right here. (woman vo) great adventures are still out there. we'll find them in our subaru outback. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get 0% apr financing for 63 months on all new 2017 subaru outback models. now through august 31. if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, and your symptoms have left you with the same view, it may be time for a different perspective. if other treatments haven't worked well enough, ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works by focusing right in the gi-tract to help control damaging inflammation

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targeting a supposed ally, political ally. he is done jeff sessions. mitch mcconnell. what's this about? >> donald trump is protecting his brand. it's the anti establishment brand. he is going -- it doesn't matter it's somebody on your side. he defined by who his enemies are, not who his allies are. the short-term affect could be he is hoping, of course, to shame the party into getting the work done they need to get done. however, it could backfire not just legislatively but politically. the most toxic brew for republicans right now in 2018 is a disengagement by the party, a party that feels like they're not getting anything done, we're not accomplishing the trump agenda. they're going to blame republicans in congress for not doing it. the president's helping make that case. >> the timing was awkward because mitch mcconnell orchestrated the president's endorsement in the alabama special senate race. it's quite a wild ride over there. tuesday is the first round of that voting. it seems that this could cause

primary fights all over the united states senate battleground next year. that's a problem. >> i think trump intuits he has running room. the hierarchy of blame for his base if things continue not to go well, media first to be blamed, then congressional leadership, we're in that stage. then his staff. and then the last one is president trump himself. this is foolrdy for a lot of reasons. he needs the party for the anl defense and he m nee mitch mcconnell to run his defense at an impeachment trial in 2019. i would not alienate him. >> you could argue the alienation, that's why thom tillis feels comfortable sponsoring a bill. >> isn't it possible that donald trump is simply being donald trump and lashing out at anyone that he perceives as an enemy? he employed mitch mcconnell's wife. if he is angry, he lashes out. i don't think he does it for strategic reasons. i think he can't control himself.

>> we got an example during the health care debate what happens, how the chickens come home to roost when you had lisa murkowski. >> one important -- it's interesting. all senators seem to be taking mcconnell's side over trump. the voters may take trump's side. >> they are taking trump's side. when you talk to voters as i have been, look at the data, when they say why are things not happening in congress, why is trump agenda not going forward, it's republicans in congress. he wins in the short-term. the president's brand wins in short-term. in longer term, it's his party. >> wow. what a week. what a show. thank you all. i appreciate it. that's all we have for today. back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

people tend to rebel when they put you under a microscope. >> told the lady on the parole board [ bleep ], [ bleep ], and called her a bitch and a whore. >> fell for a staff member. >> the love of my life. >> david and i had known each other for seven months when we finally got caught.