nevertheless i encouraged her and allowed her to be strong willed. not that i could have changed her. >> that's the mother of heather heyer who was killed saturday when a car slammed into a crowd. that act of violence and president's reluctance to condemn specifically white supremacist is marking a defining moment for the white house. good morning it's monday, august 14th. joe and mika have the morning off. with us we have political analyst and professor of university of mitch public school of policy, former conman ford jr. now on msnbc political contributor ricketyler. the president of the council on foreign relations and author of a book "the world in disarray" and "new york times" reporter. good morning to you all. let's starts with the latest on

this weekend's violence at that white nationalist rally in charlottesville. a man plowing a car into a crowd is expected to appear in court. james alex fields faces several charges. now 19 others were injured in the crash. uva headlights system says nine have been discharged and ten are in good condition. this is video of fields driving away from the scene of the crash. the suspect lives in ohio and traveled to charlottesville for the rally. his high school history teacher said fields sympathized with nazis and idolized adolf hitler. two troopers died when their helicopter went down on saturday. officials say there's no indication of foul play there. the ntsb is investigating.

let's get right into the white house's slow reaction on this. rick, let me start with you. initial reaction to what you saw in the last 48 hours? >> what happened in charlottesville is disgusting and a vile presentation of hate and bigotry and perpetrated by people who were very specific. they were neo-nazis, white supremacists and the president was slow to react. the reason the president needed to react he's the leader of the country and for some reason many of these people in these groups identified themselves with donald trump. they were wearing donald trump hats. they were talking about donald trump represents them. they were talking about donald trump fulfilling their agenda. in crass political terms, if i may, when you're given an opportunities to knock down white supremacists and nazis you take it and the president didn't do that. if you add up all of his past

statements, including being the founder of birtherism you have to wonder where this president is coming from. >> let's talk about the white house's slow reaction. stands in stark contrast of president trump's quick attacks. on saturday afternoon melania trump reacted our country encourages freedom of speech but let's communicate without hate. hours later, the president read a statement. listen. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. on many sides. it's been going on for a long time in our country. not donald trump, not barack obama, it's been going on for a long, long time. >> when asked for collarry if i

case of the president's remarks an official said the president was condemning hey tried, bigotry and violence from all sides. vfs violence from protesters and counter protesters. at the center of the discussion was homeland security adviser who laid out the situation on the ground influencing a description of spro occasion by protesters and counter protesters a white house official said. senior staff member steve bannon and steven miller spoke with president trump on saturday but it was not clear if bannon offered advice on comments. yesterday morning officials spoke out in the president's defense. >> we had protesters and counter protesters that showed up yesterday. this is the very challenge that confronted the mayor and his police official, fire official, national guard officials what they found when they showed up were groups from outside that

showed up on both sides looking for trouble, dressed in riot gear, prepared for violence. >> why didn't he single out the nazis and white supremacists. >> when he condemned bigotry on all sides that includes white supremacists and neo-nazis. it's clear we can't tolerate that bigotry that hatred that's rooted in ignorance. >> ivanka trump tweeted there should be no place in society for racist, white supremacist and neo-nazis. late sunday morning more than a day and a half after the torch bearing march the white house emailed a statement to be attributed to an unmailed spokesperson. it rid, the president said very strongly in his statement yesterday he condemns all forms of bigotry, violence and hatred

that includes white supremeizes, neo-na za is and kkk. an unnamed statement, not attributed to the president. we still have not heard those words directly from the president of the united states. >> first prayers go out to heather heyer's family. there was no john kelly on tv to make clear what the president said. i think all the leaders who spoke on his behalf, homeland security secretary mr. mcmaster. for the president not to feel compelled to come out and clarify and make the remarks more pointed it reminded me over the weekend that the two groups who has defended and coddled the most from the beginning of the campaign to now have been russians accused of interfering with our election and now white nationalists. our entire intelligence communities believes there was a part of the russian government

to interfere and yet to accept those conclusions and video demonstrates pointedly and powerfully what white nationalists and supremacists were trying to accomplish in charlottesville. terricauliffe was the only voice that was clear. this is an american issue. governor mcauliffe stood up on behalf of virginians but spoke on behalf of the country when he made clear that kind of rhetoric and action was not welcomed in virginia or america and they should go home and the question for me is where is their home? thankful we had a voice like governor mcauliffe to be calming and reassuring not only to virginians but to those of us in the country. >> we go back to the campaign a year and a half ago when then candidate donald trump speaking

on cnn and talked about his support from david duke. he feigned he didn't know duke. there's this pause, this wink where he did it again on saturday where he says it happens on many sides where he can't specifically condemn white nationalists. he can't in this case condemn nazis, kkk explicitly marching in the streets of charlottesvil charlottesville. why is that >> the president understands that part of his base includes these people and as a results, whether or not he agrees their actual believes he doesn't want to alienate them if he had pointedly criticized them. i'll say i did a lot of reporting in rnc and interviewed white nationalists that were coming to the convention saying they were excited for the first time in decades about a president and that president,

that presidential candidate being donald trump. regardless of whether or not he actually want this to be the case he's benefitted from white nationalists being excited about him and i think in some ways he understands that and is trying to play this idea he doesn't want to support them but he also doesn't want to turn on the tv and say my president doesn't have my back. even after that press conference why people were wondering why on many sides. so people espousing these views are listening close to donald trump. he said there's a pattern and the other pattern we see in our president is he's very pointed when he wants to be. he's called out the media and said they were enemies. he's called out opponents. he's called hillary clinton crooked. he's always been very pointed when he wants to be. when he wanted jeff sessions to know he thought he was weak he said he was weak. in this case you see the

president isn't being as pointed. that's why it's remarkable he's not being pointed. >> if you look and read through some of the white nationalist websites and the propaganda they put out they were very pleased with what donald trump did on saturday. they said look he didn't condemn us specifically. we understand why he m to go out and say something. they view this as a victory for them. >> what a pathetic little coward our president is. it's easy to use the term nazis and ku klux klan. the ku klux klan for decades, they are built on lynching african-americans. the nazis are built on adolf hitler exeter my naturing jews. we don't think jews should exist on this and plants. mr. president, can you not condemn those people? are you in support of that? is that what this is?

it is so disgusting and repulsive. when you watch him speak, when you could see -- we see him speak passionately. he was almost reading that text almost like he didn't want to. then when he got animated when he got to the many sides part. joe asked me many times anthony show, you know, donnie we've known trump for years opinion he says racist things. he's not a racist. he is a racist. can we say it once and a for all when we look at his history. he's talked about reverse discrimination against whites, the birther movement. a man who can't stand up and condemn ku klux klan and nazism and is a racist. >> didn't take long for many other republicans, people he ran against for president to jump out and do something that's pretty easy. we shouldn't be celebrating that, that should be an obvious step that any rights thinking human being, right thinking politician takes.

yet the president couldn't get there until a statement from the white house yesterday. >> i was thinking donald trump is the yardstick by which every republican measures well. he makes everybody else in the party look great. in the party there are disputes how much of a republican he's ever been. if we're trying to look for some silver lining here, something good to come out of it, he's making many republicans who were mealy mouth on this or came out and made their principles clear he's making them say very sharp things they haven't said before. when we're done with donald trump and i look forward to that day, these statements will live on. i want to mention one other pattern. he has a pattern dehe nev-- he shies away from even saying things about hosts of this show. he said this has been going on for a long time, this was going

on under obama. that his clear effort to say do not pin this on the way i campaigned, do not say emboldened these people which he did. he never takes responsibility for anything. >> richard, we got mike pence last night speaking alongside the president of colombia while traveling in latin america. mike pence reactsing to the violence in charlottesville. he condemned hate groups while taking issue with those holding militant views on the opposing side and chiding the media. listen. >> we have no tolerance for hate and violence from white supremacists, neo-nazis or the kkk. these dangerous fringe groups have no place in american public life and in the american debate and we condemn them in the possible strongest terms. the president also made clear

that behavior by others of different militant perspectives are also unacceptable in our political debate and discourse. i will say i take issue with the facts that many in the national media spent more time criticizing the president's words than criticizing those who perpetrated the violence to begin with. we should be putting the attention where it belongs. and that is on these extremist groups that need to be pushed out of the public debate entirely. and discredited for the hate groups and dangerous fringe groups that they are. >> interesting listening to that. almost two pieces. first piece is vice president pence saying these white nationalist groups, the kkk, the nazi, they are evil and are bad. then saying but i have to turn and defend the president and say what about the other side?

it's the weird what aboutism in this case. are there violent people in the counter protest? of course. they've been at many rallies before. we're talking about a woman who died. a 32-year-old woman died because not of those groups but the white nationalist groups who were there in charlottesville this weekend. >> there's time in life where moral equestion valence becomes unequal. here he is in colombia. this is a country that's been ravaged by terrorism for decades. what we saw the other day was terrorism. was the intentional use of force against civilians for political purpose. when this woman was killed, and the car mowed down people that's domestic terrorism in the united states. you can't separate who we are at home from what we project abroad. what happened the other day is not just domestic reality also an expression of what the united states now is. when the president doesn't condemn this it undermines our

moral authority, corrodes our ability to lead in the world. >> it's no different if you had osama bin laden followers marching. no difference between those terrorists and nazis and the klansmen. we saw pence but he hedged it. and mcmaster. there are a lot of good people in the white house. when are they going to stand up? this is their boss. at the end of the day this is their boss. true american heroes, mcmaster, kelly and mattis. this is not about health care. this is not about politics. this is about humanity. a sense of decency. these people work for this man. if you continues to work for him you are endorsing that behavior. >> we just reported it was steve bannon and steven miller with the president on saturday crafting the statement he read there. it does raise the question where was general kelly? general kelly was the best hope,

right, the best hope as "time" magazine called him. the guy who is going to come in and exert his influence as a general a guy that president trump might respect and listen to. where was he this weekend >> i'm not sure where he was. the white house pushed back and said kelly is in charge of the staff not fortunate. the president is not to be controlled. i want to pick up on what richard haas said. america has been an ideal. imperfectly executed. all men and women are created equal. the world looks at this. when they see neo-nazis and kkk and racists assemble in an american city and the president is unclear about what is right and what is wrong the whole world can look at that and say see that's not real. that's not true. people can't live like that. >> no decent human being can watch a website sponsored by this group of white nationalists or some collection of these

organizations which you touched on at the beginning of the show and basically thank the president for not directly criticizing them. no person can see that written about themselves and say wait a second i have to clarify this. i have to make it clear that i'm not supporting these organizations. in fact i'm opposed to them. the president didn't. i listened to pence. first he said elect me if something happens to this guy. second thing is recognize i have to go back to washington and be accepted at the white house. let me make sure i give the president some cover. shame on both of them. >> nationalists. white supremacists. >> neo-nazis work too. >> there's the element of the president and what he projects to the world but also the role of the presidency and we'll talk more about this this morning what he projects to the country in a time of crisis, in a time where the country wants something, in a time where the country feels like it's being torn apart.

they want leadership, they want inspiration. the country was watching on saturday and wasting for the president who had a very easy opportunities to bring the country together and to say something that should have been clear and obvious and he blew it. >> one of the things that made it so important was because of what was unsaid. america has always been an ideal. not the first time domestic terrorism has happened on our soil. if you are a student of history and understand how america was formed you know there are thousands of people kidnapped, put in the bottom of a boat and brought here to america. there are people whose lands were stolen to create america. then you have this idea that for decades you had the kkk behavioral going around, committing domestic terrorism by lynching hundreds of thousands ever african-americans in the south, in the north and even after people were set free america continued to suppress their rights and continues to tell african-americans that they were not full citizens.

we're not just looking for leadership in some ways, america is not looking for leadership they are looking to see that the country is progressing. i talked to so many people that feel the country is going backwards and donald trump is leading this new phase in america where we'll look at the 1950s and say that was the best place to be. >> we got so much more to talk about. we just hit the tip of the iceberg. some of the harshest criticism comes from the president's own party and the mayor of charlottesville will join us. senator chris coons as well. chairman of the democratic party tom perez. first bill karins has a quick look at the forecast. >> tropical storm gert formed over the weekend just off the east coast of florida. it's a weak storm, 45 mile-per-hour winds and these are the storms we like. safe for bermuda and stay just off the east coast. here's the official forecast. it goes north paralleling the coast and takes a big hook out

to the open atlantic. no problems for folks in the outer banks. also worst drive this morning, i-35 oklahoma city down to dallas showers and thunderstorms are pretty widespread. these will continues over the next hour. so pretty early slow commute in dallas. the sun will come out. hot and humid. 98 degrees. san antonio feels like summer at 101. summer-like in the southeast but there's a taste of fall in the great lakes and new england. comfortable today in the 70s and into 80s and nene to tomorrow temperatures very nines chicago where we start to warm it up, st. louis and d.c. with showers, humidity and thunderstorms, 87 for your tuesday. new york city beautiful, bragging rights early morning. no problems whatsoever on your morning commute. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. on. now get our best offers of the season. on the agile mkc. on the versatile midsize lincoln mkx.

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anybody that experienced any level of racism, prejudice knows this is disgusting, unamerican and can't be tolerated. >> not so hard. that was anthony scaramucci criticizing president trump yesterday. a number much high-profile republicans were quick to put a name to the violence. much of the 2016 presidential fast to lead it bigotry and white nationalism. senator ted cruz demanded a federal investigation. marco rubio wanted more from the president's message writing quote, very important for the nation to hear potus describe events in charlottesvile for what they are a terror attack by white supremacists. mike huckabee broke with the president to say white supremacy crap is worst kind of racism. it's evil and per version of

god's truth to think our creator ovals some above others. the most direct call came from a senator of colorado. mr. president we must call evil by its name. this is white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism. >> this isn't a time for vagari vagaries. this is a time to lay blame on bigotry and white supremacists and white nationalists. >> why won't the president do that? >> i encourage the president to do that. this president has done so when people have driven trucks through crowds in europe. he called it radicalal islamic terrorism. he should say this is domestic trifrm, this is white nationalism and it has to stop. >> some veteran members of congress put it in context. senator orrin hatch said we should call evil by its name.

former democratic congressman dingell was retweet when he wrote i signed up to fight nazis 73 years ago and i'll do it again if i have to. >> people who have been there. >> as opposed to trump who hid. those last two tweets from those two americans who sacrificed to protect our freedom. you have senators that are reluctant to criticize the president. many voted for president trump and said you knew what you were getting when you supported and voted for the president of the united states. is this going to be a crack, do you think, with republicans? is this at long last the red line for some people? >> i think it might be. we were talking about this before we went on air. this does feel to me like a moment different from others because it's very hard for all of these republicans to look at

this president and say anything admirable there right now. donnie brought up a good point. there's a lot of people in this administration who ran on patriotic reasons who are good people and their whole thinking was i know there's a lot wrong with donald trump but i'll do more to manage that. i'll do good for the country on the inside than the outside. this may be one of the moments where they have to say i can't support this any more because i'm soiled by it. it could be a hinge moment. >> it could be. it could be something happens this morning if north korea bubbles up again and able to push this to the side in the name of national unity. >> i don't think so. this is life or death of the republican party. the party has to stand for something and they elected -- we have nominated somebody who couldn't exert moral leadership. that's what a president is supposed to do so people understand where the country stands. when the president who i claim all through the primary was not

really a republican but he is a republican and he's the head of the party by virtue of being president because our party nominated him. when he cannot provide moral leadership then the party has to decide what they are going to be. and the stain of racism is now splattering all across the party and that's why you see people and thank god that people in the republican party are coming out and breaking away and providing some moral clarity. it's incumbents on the president to do that. >> couldn't you rightly say if you were a critic of all the senators who jumped out so quickly you knew exactly what you were buying when you went into the store and supported donald trump last year, when you thought he would be the right nominee for your party or thought he should be president of the united states. these signals were there during the campaign. >> absolutely. now we take corrective action. it's a little late but the party needs to hold donald trump accountable. particularly here, because the

republican party and i won't make it a political thing. the republican party was founded as a human rights party a civil rights party today. it has a rich and proud history of being a freedom party. people don't know that today. now you see a white supremacist rally and people are relating to donald trump. people are looking at the republican party as if republicans support that. republicans have to decide is that the party they want to be or be associated with and it seems as we were talking about -- scaramucci got it, like he's redeemed. he came out and said this is so clear. this is an underhanded softball pitch to the president to knock this out of the park. >> if he said that on camera you can imagine what he said off camera about white supremacists. the last two times the president has mentioned something related to civil rights and you mentioned the freedom party he talked about president lincoln as being maybe the one president who has been more presidential

than him. he said that. he emphasized maybe. two, very early in his presidency, he criticized, i think it might have been in the first few weeks he criticized john lewis and said john lewis had not done very much to make communities and neighborhoods better. now given an opportunities here just to repeat and to amplify the points he's done nothing. i am encouraged by these republicans making these comments and i hope our right that this is a moment that creates a pivot and a break for many of them. i don't -- i won't hold my breath. >> to the points didn't they know what they were getting. a lot of republicans campaigned ugly not nearly as donald trump did. many politicians say that's what's going on during the campaign. the ugly stuffer, the compromises to get into the office. they hope once the person has that office and the responsibility for moral leadership. they hope it will change. what you've seen it doesn't

change for donald trump. now they can't tell themselves that any more. >> i heard that rationalizing from people. it's disgusting what he's doing during the campaign but it's smart to get him elected. that's not really who he is. that's who he is. we're seeing it. that's the frightening part. it's nazis, man. no gray area. >> his silence is not an oversight. >> deliberate. >> it's not just republicans too. white evangelical pastors should be held to account because he got their support, and i would like to know how they reconcile this. >> in fact, you have seen some of that over the weekend. you've seen pastors, priests saying nothing in god's image about supremy. the president is up and tweeting this morning not anything about what we've been discussing not about charlottesvile. he's saying he's heading back to washington and has meetings about military and trade. do you think we heard the last of this from the white house? listen we put out a number of

statements. here's where we stand. this is following the pattern of the david duke moment in campaign where he wouldn't come out and condemn and on familily said okay i disavow. you want me to said. i've already done that but you and the press are needling. so fine you want me to say it i'll say it. >> we'll hear that moment from the president mainly because the young woman who died has to be buried. that's part of a national conversation that this young lady went to virginia and posted that if anybody was not outraged by what was happening in our country that they needed to go out and do that and go out and organize. i think the president can't turn the page and say let's talk about trade and military. kind of reminds me of the last couple of wheeks eeks, we had te in america. russia is trying to pivot in some way -- trying to say look at all the things we have

accomplished. they have accomplished some things. in reality nation is still talking about this and people are until trying to understand what happened in virginia and how a young lady lost her life while standing and having her first amendment right essentially be taken away from her aaron violent way. >> now you wonder, donnie, if he comes out and says it now he didn't say it for three days. he didn't mean it. he could have said it in real type. >> it's irrelevant what he says now. he'll bluster. how can you -- of course who doesn't stand against nazism. it's irrelevant. you don't have to say anything. to your points, frank he made the choice. it was not an oversight. advisors were in his office. i hope we roll the tape again because you can see it in his body language. he was begrudgingly even saying what he said in the first part of the statement and then became very animated, many sides here. let's not get crazy on the nazis

and ku klux klan, many sides. >> it looked like an ad lib moment. he read the script. we haven't forgotten about north korea or the threat of military force in venezuela. we'll get to that coming up. he's ripping the white house response to the violence in charlottesvile. that city's mayor, michael signer joins us next on "morning joe". this is not a cloud. this is a car protected from storms by an insurance company that knows the weather down to the square block. this is a diamond tracked on a blockchain - protected against fraud, theft and trafficking. this is a financial transaction secure from hacks and threats others can't see. this is a patient's medical history made secure - while still available to their doctor at their fingertips.

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back to charlottesvile now. things got heated yesterday afternoon when the organizer of the weekend's white nationalist rally tried though hold a news conference. [ shouting ] [ bleep ] [ shouting ] [ bleep ] >> i'll be in washington, d.c. [ bleep ] >> virginia state police arrested a man accused of spitting on jason kessler, the

man at the podium. that man is charged is misdeamnor assault and battery. joining us now the mayor of charlottesvile, michael signer. good to see you again. you and i spoke yesterday morning about this time over on the "today" show and again i would extend my sympathies to you and the families of the state troopers and to head they are heyer the 32-year-old who was killed there in that intentional car ramming. let me ask you now that you have the benefit of 48 hours of distance from this, what in your mind happened on saturday? obviously you had the permits, you knew this was coming, you felt you were prepared in terms of police presence and security and everything else. what happened there in charlottesvile? >> well, let me tell you about charlottesvile. charlottesvile was recently ranked america's literally the most charming city in america. >> beautiful place. >> we have a saying here any time you come in it's the hook, there was a newspaper here called "the hook" for that idea that it's so beloved, such an

amazing place. you know you can't leave. probably the friendliest place you've ever been. it's an interesting place. core to that is the value that we place on diversity and tolerance. we have a major rescue committee here. hundreds of political refugees from around the world. many of them are muslim and they are our neighbors and friends. we have a wonderful thriving historic african-american community here. we've also got a lot of efforts that we take on issues like race and equity. we got an office of human rights, something called charlottesvile dialogue on race that we just began. consistent with those things we started a process about a year and a half ago at long last a great southern city telling the full story of race in our city, telling the truth. and what that did was that put us on the map for a lot of these forces all of whom converged this weekend who were trying to destroy that sort of progress,

that sort of truth telling about our history. but, you know, the thing about who charlottesvile is, that diversity and charming quality we're very successful. we're aaa bond rated. we got virginia's lowest unemployment of any city. we have 50 biotech companies. >> you're a great mayor, mr. mayor. the chamber of commerce is thrilled. >> if they think -- but if they think that they are going to stop that sort of progress, i think they picked the wrong city. if anything we're going, to after this awful weekend not just picking ourselves up, but double our progress knowing that tolerance is equal to prosperity. >> it's a great american city charlottesvile, virginia. but you've been very outspoken. >> come here and spend money here. >> we got it. so you've been very outspoken about the president of the united states and the climate you believe he's created that

led to the freedom that the people that we saw marching through your streets on saturday feel to be out in the open, to go out and have their voices heard and have their voice amplified in many ways. could you elaborate on that a little bit. what responsibility do you think the president of the united states bears for what happened on saturday? >> look, i think some of this speaks for itself. we saw the campaign they ran, we saw the folks they surround themselves, we saw people like david duke supporting the president. i'm finished talking about fortunate. the nation speaking with one voice what they saw here and what needs to happen next. we had 600 cities doralies in solidarity with charlottesvile. i think charlottesvile is going to be synonymous with the nation in turning the page on this horrific chapter in american politics where bigots and fringe aft fringe were invited into the mainstream out from the shadows

where they belonged. that just came to an end this weekend. the president -- i feel fine if i don't talk about him very much. he's been on the sidelines for so much in this country for working people and for a country that really needs progress and heal and tell the truth about our history. the nation is speak with one voice. there was a rally in front of the white house. the mayor of boston, by marriage i'm in the massachusetts family against my will, a patriots fan, but he called me yesterday and, you know, asked me what the colors of the city were because they are doing a vigil tonight and that's happening all over the country. so we so appreciate that support and love from around the country. i think the country knows what happened here and knows what we have to do. >> mr. mayor i have a couple of other people with questions. rick tyler. >> you said you want to tell the

truth about our nays's history. i applaud you for that. there was designation made by your city to remove the statue of robert e. lee. some of the anti-protesters rallied around another statue of thomas jefferson. thomas jefferson was a slave holler and fathered children of a slave. he's the founder of your great college. how do we reconcile our past? how far does this go? >> look i felt -- this is an issue that divided a lot of people. people of very good faith who i sympathize with who say if there's something offends me so deeply we have to move it or get rid of it, put it in a museum. i generally have been of the position what we do is we add more history, more context, to change the narrative by telling the full story, we put in more monuments, more context. i can one people who differ with that. that was an extraordinary picture that you saw on friday

night. as i understand it black lives matter members of our diverse communities actually rallying around a statue of thomas jefferson with all of his complexities and his human mistakes and some of the evil doing he did especially the way he treated the children of, slave children on his plantations purely for economic benefit, some of the records have shown, so even with all of that they said i'm going to protect this from that that i see right there which is basically modern day, you know, domestic terrorism here. people are just trying terrorize us away and intimidate us away from any and all progress. so we know in southern cities these issues are extremely complicated. anybody trying reduce them to a tweet, to something that will fit into 140 characters just doesn't fit into the debate. we've come to our own approach in charlottesvile. we had a lot of division on this issue. we had divided votes on city

council. why we had unanimity voting 5-0 putting $5 million to overhauling these confederate parks put in the height of the jim crow era. we are moving now to put in new status and change the conteshts and tell the story how we got here. tell the story of who we are today. >> mayor signer being an articulate voice. thank you. still ahead, kristen welker with her reporting on the president. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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sleep number store. we have many options for venezuela. and by the way, i'm not going to rule out a military option. we have many options for

venezue venezuela. this is our neighbor. we're all over the world. and we have troops all over the world in places that are very, very far away. venezuela is not very far away and the people are suffering, and they're dying. we have many options for venezuela, including a possible military option if necessary. lawmakers are weighing in after president trump suggested the united states is considering military action in venezuela. in the wake of the comments the white house said friday night that the venezuelan leader requested a phone call with president trump. the trump reportedly denied the request saying he'll speak to him when democracy has been restored to that country. some tried to slam on the breaks. ben sass of nebraska released a statement saying no, congress obviously isn't authorizing war in venezuela. nicholas maduro is a horrible human being, but congress doesn't vote to vil nebraskan's

blood based on who the checktexe lashes out to. >> i'm a hawkish guy. i know if we don't send more troops to afghanistan it's going to fail. i know why we have troops in iraq and syria to train people to destroy isil. and protect us against threats like north korea and russia expansion. i have no idea why we would use military force in venezuela. >> richard haas, do you have any idea why would we use military force in venezuela? where did that come from? >> is that an example of an improvization? all it did was help mr. maduro. there's a history of american military intervention in latin america. that allowed him to begin to frame the issue as one of him

protecting the country against the united states. that's the last thing we want to do. this guy is a thug. we ought to be looking for ways to sanction the regime economically and isolate them. and we ought to be working with the neighbors to talk about a future government. we ought to be working with the opposition. the biggest problem in venezuela is not how bad the regime is, it's how weak the opposition. that's what they ought to be talking about. weaken the regime and help the opposition. >> what does it mean to have a president who is so comfortable just proposing military action out of the clear blue sky. this was just something he thought perhaps made him sound strong? >> exactly. in 1947 we created the national security council system. the idea was to create national

security. you don't want presidents improvising. you want everything to be considered. you want all the voices and positions brought in. you want a decision taken carefully and implemented with discipline. we cannot afford an undisciplined national security council. there will either be a gap between what we say and do or we'll have bad thought through policies. >> then you have somebody like mccastmaster scrambling behind president's comments. >> the assertions began with by the way. >> we'll talk about general mcmaster's interview coming up. coming up, the man accused of ramming a car into a crowd facing a judge in a few hours. we'll have the latest in that investigation. we'll dissect the president's response or lack thereof. the reverend al charlotten and

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>> what do you see as the biggest problem with the reform party right now in. >> david duke just joined. a bigot, a racist, a problem. this is not exactly the people you want in your party. >> i know nothing about david duke. i know nothing about white

supremacists. you're asking me a question i'm supposed to be talking about people i know nothing about. >> mr. president, do you want the support of these white nationalist groups who say they support you? have you denounced them strongly enough? >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, august 14th. joe and mika have the morning off. with us harold ford junior, donny deutsche, rick tyler, richard haas, nicholas confisari, and joining us from washington, eugene robinson. also with us political reporter for the washington post and msnbc political analyst bob costa. he's moderator of "washington week" on pbs. welcome to everybody. i want to go back, rick. i was watching your face as you watched that contrast.

february 14th, 2000, matt lauer interviewing donald trump. he says quickly and plainly you don't want a guy like david duke in your party. last year during the campaign he says i don't know who he is. eventually he came around to the position of fine, you want me to condemn, days later, fine, i'll condemn him. and then what we had two days in new jersey with the president saying there's hate on so many sides. not specifically identifying the hate that led to the death of heather heyer. >> and david duke was in charlottesville. he was talking about the president executing his agenda. that's why we, speaking for the klu klux klan, i assume, elected him. it's amazing donald trump wouldn't know he's been interviewed in the past and acknowledged david duke when he was asked about the reform party as if the people will just believe what he says and it doesn't exist that there's no reconciliation between what he

said in the past and what he says now. and it's remarkable that his base, he continues not to lose significant credibility. >> eugene, it was pretty extraordinary to have david duke, this repugnant man injected into our national bloodstream again. his face was shown as he was in the streets of charlottesville the other day. and he said to the president of the united states, the leader of the free world, you'd better look in the mirror and remember who put you where you are. that's from david duke. that's a quote saying remember who put you where you are and president trump did not criticize directly at the outset. the white nationalist, the nazis, the kkk people who are walking through the streets did not condemn them directly. couldn't bring himself to do it. >> he couldn't, and what's new about donald trump playing ftse with racists? he did during the campaign and

continues to do so. it is heartening to hear voices of -- from elsewhere in the reason party, a lot of republican voices, actually, saying the right things and criticizing the president, but where have they been? did they pay attention during the pain to the guy who was a standard bearer of what the party of lincoln? you know, this is not new for donald trump, and as far as a contrast between 2000 and more recent times, there were only two possibilities. one is just the sort of baldist s cynicism that you could imagine, or a dementia that he actually doesn't remember, but in any case, it was an appalling performance on saturday. >> bob costa, you are very connected in the white house in terms of your sources. walk us through if you can, a little bit of the process. we want to nail it down over the

weekend of what the white house observed in charlottesville, the decision to say what it said in that written statement, and to not say what it didn't say in that written statement. >> willie, what happened over the weekend is pretty revealing about how president trump operates. my colleagues and i have a story today in the post about how when the president was first informed of what was happening in charlottesville, he was told there were counterprotesters. and having covered him for some time, he seized on that information, and that led to the many sides statement he made initially. this is how the president often thinks through issues. he's not really listening to talking points or advice from his aides but interpreting the situation on his own and almost averting the politically correct or the traditional way of responding to a crisis or inflamed situation, and this is why so many of his associates, people in the republican party, are frustrated. they feel he alone is navigating

this entire episode on his instincts, not following the traditional path. >> bob, when you say he was told about the counterprotests, with the focus being on the counterprotesters, who told him that? is it steve bannon and steve miller? who was in his ear on saturday? >> it's hard to say who exactly told him that. steve bannon was not at bed minister. unsure of where steven miller was. the homeland security advisor was there at different points over the weekend, but it was president trump watching a lot of this. it's him interpreting the situation, and this has brought criticism from members of both parties that he's not listening and doing it based on his own reaction. >> to me, that's worse. if it's steve bannon and steven miller, and you're taking

advisors, that's bad enough in not condemning white nationalists, but if it's the president himself and his interpretation is not that he should condemn the people marching through the streets with torches and hitler and nazis tattoos and chains around their neck, but he should talk about the counterprotesters, that's scarier to me. >> it seems the one area where he sees caution, white nationalists. the kkk is a layup in american politics. people like david duke are constantly inserting themselves into mainstream politics. they're endorsing republicans who don't want their endorsement, and the play book is there. you say i don't want to endorsement. he's evil and bad. see you later. for some reason this president cannot open that play book and say the kkk is terrible, they're bad. >> it's a layup in humanity. in being a human being. >> the nazis wanted to kill

jews. the klu klux klan wanted to kill blacks. you don't need a kitchen cabinet to decide how to handle it. you need to be a human being and have a sense of basin decent humanity. this is evil. this is not nuanced or politics or red state or blue state. this is evil. and this man is pathetic, sniveling president, cannot stand up to it. there is no human being underneath that hair and that substitute. >> and you -- that's my point. if the president of the united states was watching what unfolded and he wanted to go right to the counterprotesters and suggest that somehow whatever happened, the murder that took place of heather heyer was incited by counterprotesters, boy, is that a warped view of what happened in charlottesville. >> it is in some ways, but i should say that to robert's point, this is a president who has succeeded very well on following instincts.

everybody told him he needed to be more presidential and needed to be more cautious during the campaign, that he needed to -- speak to different people, go to different communities, try to get the african american vote, try to get hispanics to think more deeply about how you view immigration after calling some mexican immigrants rapists and criminals. instead he ran a campaign all about getting the very narrow base of his to back him. he won the presidency doing that. now it's really hard for him through the sources that i talked to, to then say i'm going to listen to the people that i've hired and listen to this team of communications experts to tell me how to do my job when in reality i put myself here. i should say that it is remarkable to see him call out jeff sessions, to see him call out democrats, to see him call out members of his party to talk about the importance of saying the words radical islamic terrorism, and then punt when it comes to whether or not he's

going to condemn white supremacists. it's hard for people to understand. i think that's why we're wrestling with the fact that he hasn't been strong on this, because he's been strong in the past. >> i want to get gene and come back. i want to say in three hours from now the man accused of ramming his car into a crowd is expected to be arraigned. james alex fields faces several charges including hit and run and second degree murder for the death of a 32-year-old heather heyer. at least 19 more were injured. all have been released from hospital or listed in good condition. we also have this video of the suspect diving away from the scene of the crash. lives in ohio. >> he just killed someone. >> yes, and he's just pulling away from the scene. he traveled to charlottesville to attend this rally. his high school teacher says fields sympathized with naziism and idolized ie adolph hitler.

heather heyer had a good group of friends. >> her entire life has been passionate about justice for everyone, and fairness. and fair treatment, and you'd better be able to explain to her why something was true or not true, why it had to be that way as a child that could be maddening. and as a parent, that could be difficult and challenging, but nevertheless, i encouraged and allowed her to be strong-willed, not that i probably could have changed her even if i'd wanted. >> the other sad element of this story, the death of two virginia state troopers whose helicopter went down while monitoring the rally. one of them whose birthday was the following day. >> gene, i'll let you take it away. donald trump has been tweeting this morning. he has three tweets. one announcing he's going back

to washington to talk trade and military. another his endorsement of luther strange in the primary in alabama. and then the most recent one, the obstructionist democrats have given us some of the worst trade deals in history. i'm changing that fast. nothing today, and perhaps nothing again directly at least from the president about what happened in charlottesville. >> yeah. i mean, at some point today maybe they'll get him to issue something, something more, but remember, donald trump did not just receive the support of white supremacists. he invited it. he welcomed it. he led the birther movement, which has very clear not just racial overtones but racial content. he tweeted in 2014 that president obama was doing such a bad job that we wouldn't have another black president for decades. that says a lot about how he saw

race and how he saw blackness and whiteness. so this is not a new donald trump. this is who donald trump is. >> what this does in building it, what it says to jung people and young people aspiring to go into politics and even luther strange being endorsed by this president, they're going to have to answer these questions. something we have to think about as a country, donald trump achieved a higher vote of african americans than mccain and romney. he also achieved a higher vote get of latina voters than mccain and romney. at some point we have to step back. we have to wonder who are we and what were we thinking as a country. african americans and latina voters, what were we thinking we were going to get out of this guy that is different than the way he campaigned. i'm not asking for an answer,

but it's interesting in proper context. >> i think that's a good question. we are called during the campaign, there was a lot of criticism of hillary clinton's or bill clinton's role in mass incarceration, and there had been attempts to sort of cool off any sort of african american ardor for her candidacy. i think that was at least partly successful. but you're right. we should look at why in the world did people -- did black folks and latinos vote for donald trump and what did they expect? i can tell you what they're getting. >> bob, we've been talking about many of the republicans on capitol hill that you cover breaking with the president on the rhetoric of saturday, and coming up forcely whether it's rubio or cruz or kasich or

lindsey graham. condemning in clear terms. rubio calling it an act of terrorism. whether this is a breaking point between congressional republicans and the president of the united states. but i would just go back time and time and time again when we've asked this question is this a bridge too far for republicans going back to the comments about john mccain at the outset of the presidential campaign, they've always found a way back to donald trump. do you think it's different this time? >> it's hard to say if it's different. there have been so many times where president trump or candidate trump had controversial situations inflamed, different national moments and the republicans issued denunciations of the statements or condemnations even but they've always come back to him. they voted most of them did, in involve for president trump. very quickly, i just -- all this remind me of a conversation i had with then candidate trump in 2015. i asked him about race in 1968

campaign of nixon. it was telling back then like now. he shrugged off those kinds of questions. there's a real gap between how president trump thinks through the issues and how we in the press and others in the party do. he kept coming back to a point, i'm the least racist person you've met. i'm going to do better with black and hispanic voters than you can imagine. he has a belief the way we cover and talk about these issues is off to him, and he does not want to engage. so there seems to be day today, this clamor for him to respond in a new way, and he continues to resist it, even as his party says please, behind the scenes, respond in a different way. he refuses to engage, because he does not like the context of this entire national discussion. >> if you look at that statement the white house put out yesterday, not signed from the president. it was not directly from president trump. it was almost like okay, fine, you guys win. we'll say what you want us to

say. reluctantly putting out a statement and saying this is what he mental. he condemned all racism. of course that includes white supremacists, and all extremist groups. do you think the white house feels like it's turned the page on this and they can walk away from it? >> it's not clear to me. i think there's people in the white house who are pushing for that statement and pulling their hair out, and i also think that the president saeeings these discussions in terms of what it takes away from him. to say this is bad is giving into his critics. that's a narrow prizm. he doesn't start with the thought that those people are bad, i'm not saying they're bad. he says if i put out a statement, then i'm giving into my critics who say i'm not doing enough. it's strange to me that that is his driving or seems to be his driving motivation in the encounters instead of what's right and wrong. >> i think we have to stop the

calculus of he's playing to his base. and i'd love everybody's opinion. i had always early on felt he's not a racist. he's horribly manipulative, but he's playing the game to get where he needs to get. we have to stop that. he's being political and just a racist. you couldn't as a human respond any other way. we have to stop giving him air cover of a political discussion or strategy versus core human values of racism. gene, to your point, this is not new, but there was always that little out, well, the ends justify the means. it's disgusting but, and there's no but anymore. >> i don't see the but. i'm reminded of something maya ang an ja lieu once said to oprah winfrey.

when somebody tells you who they are, why do you have to be told 17 times before you believe him? incident after statement after controversy over the years, why don't we believe donald trump? why don't we believe he means what he seems to mean? which is obviously blatant racism as far as i can see. >> richard, in the background of this, before this bubbled up, we had the prospect of a nuclear exchange with north korea in the headlines, and then as we played a minute ago, the president raised the possibility of a military strike against venezuela. out of the clear blue sky. what is the effect of the president appearing the way he did this weekend at home abroad? what does the world see when it watches this? >> it diminishes the authority of this president. it diminishes the authority of the united states. by definition, if you're an american ally, you've essentially put your eggs in our

basket. you've given us the trust for your security. over time, this will undermine that trust. and every country in the world, i think that's an american ally now has a little file called hedging against the united states. they don't know what this president is going to do. they don't know how long he's going to be president. they don't know if he's an aberration or now the future. we don't know what succeeds him. is this the new united states. i think the post american world is coming about in part because we set it in motion. we have created doubts about the united states and our willingness and ability to be there. >> does the world hear him up there saying we might want a military strike on venezuela and say that's just him running his mouth, or do they have to because it's the united states saying we need to prepare for that possibility now. >> the answer is they do have to take it seriously. you don't know what's serious and what's not. what he said on korea.

the only ironic thing on north korea is it's pushed it a little bit back. and you see the markets taking a breath. you have comments about pompeo saying war is not imminent. it's almost like north korea was last week, now it's charlottesville. there's a sense of whiplash where w this presidency. >> the prospect of nuclear war was pushed to the side. only this president could accomplish that. >> it's not the kind of thing we studied with international relations in college. >> international relations, the threat in venezuela because of their proximity, canada better keep their act together. trudeau better keep it, because we're close. >> guam's tourism is looking good according to president. still ahead, peter alexander has an exclusive interview with mike pence. we'll bring you that in a moment. plus, we'll speak with tom perez and reverend al sharpton and

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joining us from bridgewater, new jersey, kristen welker. jeff sessions responded to president trump's comments about the deadly charlottesville protest. what did he have to say? >> reporter: his comments come as there's mounting pressure on president trump to publicly and explicitly denounce the white supremacists at the root of the violent clashes in virginia over the weekend. he failed to do that this weekend, and that sparked a lot of frustration. his attorney general out today including on the "today" show

defending the president saying his initial statement was force ful and making it clear they will investigate and get to the bottom of what happened. >> he made a very strong statement that directly contradicted the ideology of hatred, violence, bigotry, white supremacy. those things must be condemned in that country. they're unacceptable, and you can be sure that this department of justice in his administration is going to take the most vigorous actions to protect the right of people like heather heyer to protest against racism and bigotry. we're going to protect the right to assemble and march and prosecute anybody to the fullest extent of the law that violates their ability to do so. you can be sure of that. >> reporter: he was pressed on whether president trump apologized for publicly shaming

him in recent weeks. he said the president hasn't apologized and the president has the right to be critical of members of his own cabinet. but back to the issue of virginia, initially president trump had signalled that he might hold a news conference today to address a range of topics. that was last week before the virginia clash happened over the weekend. we're being told there's not going to be a full press conference, but it's likely the president will be open to answering shouted questions. >> we'll see if he goes any further today. kristen welker, thank you. joining us now, traveling with the vice president, peter alexander. with a lovely backdrop. peter, you spoke exclusively with the vice president. good morning. >> reporter: good morning. we traveled down here to latin america, the first of four stops for the vice president yesterday. we had a chance to speak to him

exclusively last night where the vice president did what a lot of the president's critics say he should have done. mike pence condemning white sprem sis and groups of that kind. i began the conversation by asking him why the president won't call out those evil groups by their name. >> president trump yesterday stated clearly that he condemns hate and violence in all of it forms. we will not tolerate hatred and violence of groups like white supremacists and the kkk and the neo nazis. these extremist fringe groups have no part. >> why won't the president use those same words? why hasn't he? >> i think the american people heard the president yesterday speak plainly and condemn in his words in the strongest possible terms, organizations that portray hate and violence. i think the american people heard it, but they also heard a

president calling for national -- >> some are concerned others didn't including on hatch, we should call evil by its name. my brother didn't give his life fighting hitler -- was it a mistake for the president to not be more clear? >> i think the president yesterday spoke into a national moment in words that the american people needed to hear. that we condemn acts of violence, acts of hatred. >> reporter: name the sides. what are the sides? >> as i said yesterday, we condemn in the strongest terms the hate and violence advocated by groups like white supremacists and neo nazis that in their ilk. >> reporter: what's the other side? >> as you look throughout the course of recent years we've seen protester violence.

we've seen fringe groups use peaceful protest environment to bring some violence, in some cases against police officers. >> reporter: with respect, one killed an american yesterday. >> and we're bringing the full weight of the federal government to bear investigating and prosecutors that individual for that heinous act that took the life of that innocent woman. i take issue with the fact that many in the media are spending more time criticizing how the president addressed the issue. >> reporter: it's not me. it's orn hatch and others. >> many in the media spent a lot of time focusing on what the president said and criticisms of what the president said instead of criticizing those who brought the hatred and violence to the streets of charlottesville, virginia. >> reporter: at the end of our conversation, i asked the vice president if this was an act of domestic terrorism. he said it may well have been saying the administration is now

exploring that noting that the president has directed the department of justice to issue an investigation into an attack rem necessary -- reminiscent to other attacks around the united states. >> peter, reaction to the strained interview that the vice president of the united states just gave peter alexander and trying to shift the to the media reaction instead of the content. >> when was the last time that peaceful protesters showed up in full body armor with shields and clubs to beat people? i don't remember dr. king doing that. these denials to keep going on and on, i'll quote the mayor of charlottesville, when you dance with the devil, the devil has an influence on you, not the other way around. >> do you believe those are the views of vice president pence? >> i don't. i think he's trying to thread a needle. i'm tired of it.

the attorney general could go out and hold his press conference and assert the president and be very aggressive about investigations, civil rights investigations into what happened in charlottesville. he could do himself a huge political favor. >> there is an investigation. >> i've been critical of jeff sessions. he was good on the clip we saw. pence got lied to about mike flynn. the president said he would have kept flynn, but he lied to pence. pence was told comey was because of a variety of things. he said that. the president came back and said it was all about russia. donald trump junior had a statement written by the president. the president said it didn't happen. he did what any father would do. pence has been lied to multiple times in this administration. i appreciate the first part of what said. it looks like he was running if something happened to this president in 2020. then he realized he had to be accepted back in the country so

he defended the president. thank you to governor mcauliffe for his strong words. general kelly, running the staff, but helping the staff manage this president, i hope his voice becomes more powerful and more prevalent in the coming days. >> you can see the pain on pence's face. you feel it. >> also to me, it shows a lack of a grasp of the significance of the president speaking when they say you're too fek fixated what the president said. we're focussed on who killed heather heyer, but it's critical the president be the leader that the country needs in a moment like that. our next guest says president trump is the ultimate expression of our political fantasy industrial complex. we'll let him explain next.

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author curt anderson, his upcoming book is "fantasy land, how america went haywire". curt writes this about president trump. he is pt barnum, his sister a federal judge told his

biographer in 2005. although the fantasy industrial complex had been annexing presidential politics far more than half a century. trump's campaign and presidency are its ultimate expression. let's take a step back. the thesis of this piece is that america has lost its mind. >> that in a word. >> is that fair? >> yeah. >> okay. and not to go through the spire 500 years, but how did we get here? >> let's just do the last 50 or so. there were strains of this for various reasons in our international bloodstream. we can believe whatever we want, a good thing. we can attempt possible things, good thing. all these things, but then, i argue in the late 60s, it got kind of out of control with the reality checks and balances with

dream the impossible dream. in the 60s from my quote, really starting with jfk but then ronald reagan and bill clinton as well, presidential politics did become a kind of subset of entertainment, and cable news didn't encourage that as well. and so once a reality show guy like donald trump is running for president and being president, he understood that he took it further. and made himself a character. now, there are all kinds of other arguments that i make about how the anti-establishment idea that was born in the 60s in a big way has become, again, kind of metastasized, out of control and become more consequential on the right than on the left. how the create your own reality, hey, everybody has a point. you know, there's violence on all sides. this statement that the president made this weekend.

it comes straight out of the 60s. oh, no, i can't condemn anything. everything has a point. what we used to call primitive, we can't call it primitive anymore. we've been getting here little by little, and then in the age of internet, i fear that we just went over the falls. >> what is the media splitup where you can find your own narrative and hear your views confirmed depending on what cable news channel you're on or what radio station or what website you read. the fact that you don't even have to entertain the other side, whether you're on the right or left, what has that done? >> it's a huge part of it. for all of the legitimate complaints about the mainstream media, there was only three networks, kau networks, well that establishment media operation and apparatus for the down sides and bigotries and everything

else, it kept the worst hogwash out of the stream. and, again, okay, it needed fixing, and then as so often happens when we fix things, the pendulum swung way over here and now we have basically the gate keeping function was either stolen from the decent reasonable establishment or mooted by, say, the internet. >> gene has a question for you. >> yeah. curt, my simple question is is there a way back to on the i have -- objective reality or are we stuck in fantasy land forever? >> that is the question, gene. i think we're stuck here. i think we can contain it. i don't think if we do our part we don't have to go further into it, but i don't think there's

much going back. i'm a believer in cycles and we go one way and move the other, and maybe we move back some, but i think given the kind of operating systems that were installed in our brains over the last 50 years and the internet and technologies in general, i don't think we are going back to the reality-based america of your and my youth. >> just off the article. you coined the term for trump short fingered as a rule gar yan. you covered him in the 80s. >> everything wrong. >> did you see a shift in him in his eyes and his demeanor? do you see -- i see a very different guy today. and you've chronicled him over the years. >> yes. and no. he's a 30 years older guy, but

no. he was clearly enjoying himself more 20 or 30 years ago. he clearly could keep a thought in his mind for more than a couple of sentences. yeah. no, whether it's illness or not, there is some kind of cognitive decline, and change for sure. but is he still a bully liar or blusterer guy desperate for media attention like a junkie is for drugs? was then. is now. >> we joked a minute ago. your description of him as this celebrity in the logical outcome of celebrity presidential culture. this phone call he had with the governor of guam where the conversation went you've been threatened with nuclear annihilation. congratulations, because you're more famous now. your tourism will go through the roof.

this is great for you. >> and didn't have to spend any money to get it. >> it's insane. i'm working on a book in the voice of donald trump, and the problem with that, as i've written for the last several months is wrote that, made that up, and then the next week he doesn't. no, it's extraordinary. he really -- the fact that he's seriously, not vesarcastically said to this guy, like, no, it's good for you. tourism. it's going to be great. that wasn't a joke. >> he said your occupancy rates are going to be through the roof. >> you don't think the cycles are going to happen? i don't like differing with you, but eight years ago we looked at barack obama and the change that brought. i would not have thought eight years later we would have this kind of president in office. i hope this cycle could come back. >> it's not all about who gets elected president.

because, of course, donald trump only won by -- well, didn't win the popular vote. he only won marginally. if hillary clinton had won, which she could have, we'd all be saying america is great. we're out of fantasy land. a woman can be elected. which wouldn't have been true. the fact that this set of alternate facts has its infrastructure and will continue is not going to be changed even if we elect john kasich in 2020 or a democrat. >> curt anderson, as always, a must read. the back is fantasy land, how america went haywire. it hits shelves in september. you can get a preview in this month's "atlantic". >> coming up, chris coons and julia joffi. ♪

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>> welcome to you both, senator. start with you, senator. assuming you thought the president's comments on saturday were insufficient, what would you have liked the president of the united states to say in the wake of the events in charlottesville. the death of that young woman, the death of two state troopers for virginia and why is it important for any president to come out in a moment like that and speak strongly? unfolding crises, and in one he's been too belligerent and ahead of his team and in the other he's failed to step up and speak in a positive way about how we confront the evil that is

white nationalism. in confronting north korea's expanding and exgreszive nuclear program, in making it clear that all americans stand united in opposi opposing. we talked about the number of republican colleagues who said strong this mornings in the nature that donald trump isn't.

denouncing nazism over the weekend reminding all of us of that greatest generation when he said that his older brother didn't die fighting nazism in europe simply to have that ideology tolerated here at home. i do think this is going to make it harder for president trump within his own party and the congress going forward. >> julia, it's nick. back in 2016 the trolls on-line targeted you after you wrote a story about the president's wife, which was a fair story, by the way, and there are pictures of you and called you anti-semitic slurs. who are these people, and what

is their relationship to the president's movement, and why does he have this problem of not calling them out, which is the same problem he had back then? >> well, they didn't just harass me on-line. they also tried to order coffins and homicide clean-ups to my apartment. they continue to harass me and attack my younger sister, my mother. to me the march until charlottesville is nothing new, and i understood back in this was april 2016 that should donald trump win, this is who he is going to bring with him to the white house, and so he did. i would take issue with the previous question and the answer, we've been seeing this kind of -- these kinds of denunciations perhaps less forcefully. we saw them all through 2016 when trump went after a judge of mexican heritage. speaker paul ryan said this is the textbook definition of racism, but i'm still going to vote for him. when he went after a gold star

family and cast dispurgeons on their muslim faith, people denounced him, but then they odd stool behind him and tried to work with him because there was the possibility of repeeling obama care and tax reform. as long as you have these condemnations paired with these venal political motives, we're not going to see any difference. >> senator, good morning. it's rick tyler. earlier this morning you describe the democratic party can't be a secular party. can you describe faith in your own life and how it guides you as a legislator? >> i'm sorry. could you repeat the question? >> can you describe -- i'm keying off europe ed in "the atlantic" today. can you describe faith in your own life and how it guides you as a legislator? >> well, one of the things that i bring to legislating is a sense of humility, a sense of humility that is at the core of my faith and a sense of

commitment to caring for those on the margins of our society those who are either in need of economic health, those who are in need of medical help, and part of what motivates me to keep fighting for the affordable care act and part of what motivates me to keep fighting for economic opportunity is a personal belief motivated by my religious faith that those are the folks in our society we are called to tend to. >> all right. julia, stick with us, if you can. senator chris coons, we appreciate your time very much. still ahead, president trump is set to launch an investigation into china's trade practices today. we'll look to wall street amid fears of a trade war. plus, the reverend al sharpton and dnc chairman tom perez join our conversation. "morning joe" back in a moment. can i give it to you straight? that airline credit card you have... it could be better. it's time to shake things up. with the capital one venture card, you get double miles on everything you buy, not just airline purchases.

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>> that is the mother of heather heyer, who was killed saturday in charlottesville, virginia, when a car slammed into a crowd of demonstrators protesting a rally of white nationalists. that act of violence and the president's reluctance to condemn specifically white supremacists is marking a defining moment for the white house. good morning. it's monday, august 14th. joe and meeka have the morning off. with us we have political analyst and professor at the university of michigan public school of policy, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> good morning. >> donny deutsche is with us, former communications director for ted cruz's 2016 presidential campaign -- excuse me -- now an msnbc political contributor, rick tyler. frank brunhy, "new york times" columnist, and author of the book "world in disarray, richard haass." and in washington "new york times" reporter anish. let's start on the weekend's violence. at the white rally, the 20-year-old man accused of plowing a car into a group of protesters demonstrating against

the rallies and is expected to appear in court. james alex fields faces several charges, including hit-and-run and second degree murder for the death of 32-year-old heather heyer. at least 19 others were injured in the crash. the uva health system says nine have been discharged and ten are in good condition. this is video of fields driving away from the scene of the crash. the suspect lives in ohio and travelled to charlottesville for the rally. his high school history teacher tells the associated press fields sympathized with nazism and idolized adolph hitler. the other sad part of this story, the death of two virginia state troopers whose helicopter went down while monitoring the rally. pilot trooper burke bate and lieutenant h. jay cullen. there's no indication of foul play there. the ntsb is investigating. let's get into the white house's slow reaction. rick tyler, let me start with you. initial reaction to what you saw over the last 48 hours.

>> well, in charlottesville what happened is a disgusting and vial presentation of hate and bigotry and perpetrated by people who were very specific. they were not neo-nazis, white supremacists, and the president was slow to react. they were talking about donald trump to fulfill their agenda and wearing donald trump hats and t-shirts. when you are given an opportunity to knock down white supremacists and nazis, you take it.

>> it stands in stark contrast to his quick condemnation to other attacks. in the early afternoon on saturday, first lady melania trump reacted in a tweelt "our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate without hate in our hearts. no good comes from violence." hours later at a signing for veterans medical care at his club in new jersey, the president read a statement. let's listen. "we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. on many sides. it's been going on for a long time in our country. not donald trump. hatred, bigotry and violence from all sources and all sides. there was violence between protesters and counter

protesters today. according to the "new york times", trump consulted a broad range of advisers before speaking on saturday. most of whom told him to sharply criticize the white nationalist protesters. at the center of the discussion was homeland security adviser tom bosser who laid out the situation on the ground, including a description of provocations by both protesters and counter protesters, a white house official said. the official told the paper, senior staff member steve bannon and steven miller spoke with trump repeedly on saturday, although it was not clear if bannon had offered advice on comments. yesterday morning senior officials spoke out in the president's defense. what they found when they showed up were groups from outside that showed up on both sides looking for trouble, dressed in riot gear, prepared for violence. >> why didn't he single out the neo-nazis and the white

supremacists? >> when he condemn the bigotry and hatred on all sides, that includes white supremacists and neo-nazis, and i think it's clear. i know it's clear in his mind, and it ought to be clear to all americans. >> the white house e-mailed the statement to be attributed to an unnamed spokesperson and not to the president himself. it read, "the president said very strongly in his statement yesterday that he condemns all forms of violence, bigotry, and hatred, and, of course, that includes white supremacists, kkk, neo-nazis and all extremist groups.

a long way to make an unnamed statement. we still have not heard those words directly from the president of the united states. >> my prayers go out to heather h heyer's family. there was no john kelly on tv to make clear where the president said all of the leaders who spoke on his behalf, i saw the homeland security advisor, and obviously we know mr. mcmaster. for the president to not fieeel compelled to make the remarks more poignant, it reminded me over the weekend that the two groups that have defended and been coddled the most from the beginning of the campaign until now have been russians accused. our entire intelligence community believes that there was a part on the russian government to interfere. he has yet to accept those conclusions. video demonstrates pointedly and powerfully what white nationals and supremacists were trying to

get accomplished in charlottesville. finally, i think terry mcauliffe, because his voice was the only clear adult voice over the weekend making obvious lit clear to those of us around the country. the president and some of his people tried to make this a race thing. this is an america issue. governor mcauliffe stood up on behalf of virginians, but i think spoke on behalf of the country when he made clear that that kind of rhetoric and action was not welcome in virginia. not welcome in america. they should go home. i guess the question for me is where is their home in so many ways, but thankfully, we had a voice like governor mcauliffe over the weekend to be calming and reassuring not only to virginians, but those of us around the country. >> you know, there seems to be a pattern here. we go back to the campaign about a year and a half ago when then candidate donald trump was speaking on cnn and was asked about the support he had received from david duke, and he feigned this ignorance that he didn't know who david duke was or any endorsement. i don't know what's going on there were his words.

there's always this beat, this pause, this wink where and he did it again on saturday where he says, well, it happens on many sides where he cannot specifically condemn white nationalists. he cannot specifically in this case condemn nazis. the kkk. explicitly and openly marching through the streets of charlottesville. why do you think that is? >> i mean, i think it's because the president understands that part of his base includes these people, and as a result, whether or not he agrees with their actual bheefs, he doesn't want to alienate them in the way that he might if he pointedly criticizes them. i'll say that i did a lot of reporting around the rnc and interviewed for the fifrrst tim in my own career white nationalists that were coming to the convention saying they were excited for the first time in decades about a president. that presidential candidate being donald trump. he has benefitted from white nationalists being excited about him, and i think in some ways he

understands that and is trying to play this idea that he doesn't want to support them, but he also doesn't want them to turn on the tv and say, well, my president doesn't actually have my back because as soon as after that press conference where everyone was wondering why he said on many sides, you had david duke tweeting out donald trump needs to remember that white people put him in the white house, so he -- so the people that are espousing these views are listening closely. there's a pattern. i think the other pattern that we see in our president is he is very pointed when he wants to be. he has called out the media and said that we're enemies. he has called out opponents. he has called hillary crooked hillary. he has always been very pointed when he wants to be. when he wanted jeff sessions to know that he thought he was weak, he said that he was weak. in this case you see that the president isn't being as pointed so i think that's why it's so remarkable that he is not being pointed at this time. >> you know, donny, if you look and read through some of the white nationalist web sites and the media and the propaganda

that they put out, they were very pleased of what donald trump did on saturday. they said, look, he didn't condemn us specifically. we understand why he had to go out and say something, but they viewed this as a victory for them. >> what a sniveling man our president is. it's easy to say nazis and ku klux klan. the ku klux klan for decades, they're built on lynching african-americans. the nazis are built on the followings of aid off hitler of exterminating jews. six million. no, we don't think jews should exist on this planet. we're going to exterminate. that's what world war ii was about. mr. president, can you not condemn those people? are you in support of that? is that what this is? it is so disgusting and repulsive. when you watched him speak, when you could see -- we've seen him speak passionately.

when the first part of it he was almost reading that text like he didn't want to, and then when he got animated is when he got to the many sides part. the many sides. you know, joe has asked me many times on this show, donny, he says racist things, but he is not really racist. no, he is a racist. he is a racist. can we say it once and for all when we look at his history? he has talked about reverse discrimination against bhiewhit the birther movement. we have a man that cannot stand up and condemn the ku klux klan and nazism is a racist. >> still ahead on "morning joe" the vice president goes further than the president in calling out saturday's violence, and he does not miss a chance to scold the media. later, there are big opportunities on the map for democrats in the midterm elections. the head of the dnc, tom perez, has his work cut out for him to rehab his party and to deliver a message. he joins us in just a moment. first, bill karins has a look at the forecast. >> well, good morning to you.

we are watching the tropics closer. we're getting to our peak part of the season where we can get the big ones even close to our shores. we do have a tropical storm just off the southeast coast. it's 475 miles west-southwest of bermuda. here's bermuda here, and the florida peninsula is here. it's safely tucked away from land right now. that forecast track is going to take it further up towards the north, and we're not going to have to deal about it here in the u.s. even in areas of nova scotia they won't have to deal with it too. as far as today's forecast is going to go, we are watching a lot of heavy rain this morning. dallas-fort worth has gotten hilt with thunderstorms this morning. those extend through arkansas and areas of mississippi. the southeast is the area where we have the stormy weather to deal with. beautiful conditions continue. 87 in st. louis. 84, chicago. not bad in the northeast. not as much sunshine as sunday. we'll take low 80s and upper 70s. not many problems in the west. as we take a sneak peek towards tomorrow, d.c. could deal with storms. still very hot in the middle of the country. look at san antonio to oklahoma city, and still coolish in the

great lakes. a pretty quiet start to our weather week, and nothing to worry about in the tropics here in the u.s. new york city is one of those spots that has a beautiful start to your monday morning. low humidity and temperatures very comfortable. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century. this august visit your local volvo dealer to receive sommar savings of up to $4,500. this august visit your local volvo dealer when this bell rings... ...it starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business,

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>> the vice president mike pence reacting to the violence in charlottesville. he did take issue with those holding "militant views on the opposing side and chiding the media." listen. >> we have no tolerance for hate and violence from white supremacists, the neo-nazis or the kkk. these dangerous fringe groups have no place in american public life and in the american debate,

and we condemn them in the strongest possible terms. >> the president also made clear that behavior by others of different militant perspectives are also unacceptable in our political debate. these groups need to be pushed out and -- >> there are almost two pieces to it. the first piece is vice president pence saying these

white nationalist groups, the kkk, the nazis, they're evil, bad. all the things that you should say. then saying but i have to turn and defend the president and say what about the other side? it's this weird what about-ism in this case. are there violent people in the counter protests? of course, there are. they've been at many rallies before. >> this is a country ravaged by terrorism for decades. what we saw the other day was terrorism. it was the intentional use of force against civilians for political purposes. when this woman was killed, the car mowed down people, that is domestic terrorism in the united states. what it shows is you can't separate who we are at home for what we project abroad.

what happened the other day is not just domestic reality. it's also an expression of what the united states now is. when the president doesn't condemn this, it actually undermines our moral authority. it corrodes our ability to lead in the world. >> by him not condemning, it's no different than if you had osama bin laden followers marching with flags in his face supporting him. at the end of the day this is their boss, and true american heroes -- mcmaster, kelly, and mattis. this is not about health care. this is no longer about politics. this is humanity. this is sense of decency. these people work for this man. if you continue to work for him, you are endorsing that behavior, period. >> rick, we just reported that it was steve bannon and steven

miller with the president on saturday. he was crafting the statement he read there. it does raise the question where was general kelly? general kelly was the best hope, right? the last best hope as "time magazine" called him. the guy that was going to come in and exert his influence as a general. a guy that president trump might actually respect and listen to. where was he? >> i'm not sure. the bhowhite house pushed back. i think we've all discussed the president has -- is not to be controlled, but i want to pick up on what richard haass said. america has always been an ideal. it's been imperfectly executed. today we would say all men and women are created equal. the world looks at this, and when they see neo-nazis, kkk, and racists assemble in an american city and the president is unclear about what is right and what is wrong, the whole world can look at that and can say, see, it's not real.

it's not true. people can't live together like that. >> coming up on "morning joe" another missed opportunity for the president to put daylight between himself and white nationalists. just ahead, members of his own party call for him to set the record straight. "morning joe" is back right after this. >> he missed an opportunity to be explicit here. these groups seem to believe they have a friend in donald trump in the white house. i don't know why they believe that, but they don't see me as a friend in the snatd, and i would urge the president to dissuade these groups that he is their friend. knowing where you stand has never been easier.

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>> anybody that's experienced any level of -- it cannot be tolerated. >> it's not so hard. that was former white house communications director anthony scaramucci criticizing president trump yesterday. a number of high profile republicans were quick to put a name to the violence, and others expressed their frustration with the president. the leader much their party, for not being more forceful and specific in his condemnation. much of the 2016 presidential field fast to label it bigotry and white nationalism. senator ted cruz demanded a federal investigation into what

he called a grotesque act of -- very important for the nation to hear potus describe events for are what they are. a terror attack by white supremacists. mike hucka bee, typically a reliable supporter of the president, broke with him to say, "white supremacy crap is worst kind of racism. it's evil and per version of god's truth to ever think our creator values some above others." the most direct call came from senator cory gardener. he wrote "mr. president, we must call evil by its name. these were white supremacists, and this was domestic terrorism. >> this is not a time for vagueries. this is not a time for innuendo or to allow room to be read between the lines. this is a time to lay blame, to play lay blame on bigotry and to lay blame on white supremacists, and white nationals. >> why won't the president do that the way you just did? >> i encourage the president to

do that. this president has done so when people have driven trucks through crowds in europe. he has called it radical islamic terrorism. he should use this opportunity today to say this is terrorism, this is domestic terrorism, this is white nationalism, and it has to stop. >> some veteran members of congress put it into context wrrks senator orrin hatch saying, "we should call evil by its name. my brother didn't give his life fighting hitler for nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home." former democratic congressman john dingell was retweeted 257,000 times when he wrote, "i signed up to fight nazis 73 years ago, and i'll do it again if i have to." >> those last two men say it all, don't they? >> people who have actually been there. >> they gave their lives as opposed to trump who snivelingually hid. >> frank, you've got senators and congressmen who previously have been reluctant, let's say,

to criticize the president for going along with the leader of their party. many of them voted for president president trump and perhaps you can say, well, you kind of knew what you were getting when you supported and voted for the president of the united states, but is this going to be a crack, do you think, with republicans? is this at long last the red line for some people? >> i think it might be. donnie and i were talking about this before we went on air. this does feel to me like a moment different from others because it is very hard for all of these republicans to look at this president and see anything admiral there right now. donny brought up the good point. there are a lot of people in this administration who went in for patriotic reasons, who are good people, and their whole thinking was i know there's a lot wrong with donald trump, but i'm going to do more to manage that. i'm going to make more good for this country on the inside than the outside. i wonder if this is one of those moments where they have to say to themselves, i can't support this anymore because i'm soiled by it, and i'm not sure there's enough good to be extracted from it. i do think this could be a hinge moment. >> it could be, rick. it also could be that something happens this morning, that north

korea bubbles up again, and they're able to push this it the side in the name of national unity or whatever you want to call it. >> i don't think so. i think this is life or death of the republican party, and i don't -- it's not an overstatement. the party has to stand for something, and they elected -- we have nominated somebody who couldn't exert moral leadership, and that's what the president is supposed to do. they're supposed to exert moral leadership. the people understand where the country stands. when the president who i claimed all through the primary wasn't really a republican, but he is a republican, and he is the head of the party by virtue of being president because our party nominated him. when he cannot provide moral leadership, then the party has to decide what they're going to be, and the stain of racism is now splattering all across the party, and that's why you see people and thank god that people in the republican party are coming out and breaking away and providing some moral clarity, but it's incumbent upon the president to do that. >> coming up he at the height of the discord on sunday, the president's campaign came out with a divisive new ad and some

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a few isolated groups still hold perverted notions of what america is all about. recently in some places in the nation there's been a disturbing recurrence of bigotry and violence. to those individuals who persist in such hateful behavior, you are the ones who are out of step with our society. you are the ones who willfully violate the meaning of the dream that is america, and this country, because of what it stands for, will not stand for your conduct. [ applause ] >> if there's anyone who has

mistakenly attached themselves to our party in the belief that we are not open to citizens of every race and religion, then let me remind you, tonight this hall belongs to the party of lincoln and the exits which are clearly marked are for you to walk out of as i stand this ground without compromise. >> and our country must abandon all the habits of racism because we cannot carry the message of freedom and the baggage of bigotry at the same time. >> welcome back to "morning joe." donny deutsche, rick tyler, rick still with us, along with "the atlantic's" julia. and the host of politics nation and president of the national action network reverend al sharpton, usa today susan paige.

sofia nelson. she's author of the book "epluribus one." welcome, everybody. rev, let me go to you first. he with just saw a rundown of republican presidents or republican presidential candidates beginning with ronald reagan early in his first term going to bob dole of his nominating convention in 1996 and george w. bush in his second inaugural address condemning racism, condemning white nationalism, condemning the very things we have seen bubble up in a very public way again in american life under president donald trump. you have known donald trump for many, many, many years. do you believe he has it in him to condemn what we saw in charlottesville, and if so, why didn't he do it? >> i think that donald trump has demonstrated down through the years that he is not above whistle-blowing to those that have had feelings and real believes in bigotry. i mean, let's not forget the

first time we heard from him in a social political context in new york, he was buying ads calling for the death penalty of five young black and latino boys accused of a despicable act of rape. he still said he felt the city shouldn't -- >> the death penalty. >> this is the death penalty. we're not talking about bringing them to trial. we're talking about he called for the death penalty. all the way until the issue that he became one of the faces of, he has played on divisiveness. he has played on the fact -- he has nationalized that. to come as president, we have the right to expect our president to operate differently than those of us that have normalized that's donald trump. he is the president. >> but you are even dancing around it. we've done this for years where he plays to it versus saying he is.

don't you need to now come out. enough is enough. not just he plays to it. can you say he is a racist? can you say he is a racist? >> the reason why i think you trivialize is it -- >> imaui'm not -- >> i've been fighting this all night. don't tell me. >> i've beg fighting this a long time. they want us to make it just then we're going to debate on donald trump is he a racist? he is a proponent of racism. he has been one to sell that. i'm not trying to be his psychiatrist. >> what's the difference? >> the difference is i don't want to put him on a couch and deal with his psychological personal problems. i'm dealing with his public policies. i'm dealing with the fact that here's a man that will sit up and not call a domestic terrorist attack that has killed a young woman and he is the head of state. i'm dealing with the fact that here's a man that has not taken a position on people that are

going to rallies that are white spremist rallies with his name on their hats and with his slogan on their hats. to deal with it just as donald trump as an individual -- >> he is a president. >> that's what you must deal with. his presidency. i think -- >> you can't say the president is a racist -- you can't say that? >> i think that you minimize. >> i think you maximize. i disagree. >> i think you are trivializing it because you making donnie or al against donald. we're talking about the president and his policies. >> what did you see yesterday or over the weekend as you looked at charlottesville? what were we watching there? this is obviously white nationalism that has always been there. it was out in the open for many, many, many years in this country. then went a little subterranean for a while. there's something that has happened in this country recently where these people feel like they've been given some kind of cover to come out in the open. >> well, you know i wrote a piece on nbc black and nbc.com titled "this is us," and the fact of the matter is, willie,

this is us. the history, the founding of this country, we don't like to talk about the fact that this country was founded half slave and half free, and that racism was at the very core slavery through segregation. this country is founded on notions of racial bigotry, and for us to deny that and to keep denying that is part of the problem. part two, what i saw in charlottesville, and i live in leesburg, virginia, so i'm 40 miles away from charlottesville, was beyond disturbing because i want to know what makes young white men of 20 years of age want to follow nazis. i want to know why dillon roof goes into a church and kills nine african-americans in charleston and feels like this is something that they need to do. i think that we're not having the real discussion about what the under belly of the beast here is. absolutely, positively there has been code talk since the election. there's been a resurgence of racism and bigotry, and i think

the president missed a huge opportunity on saturday to call it what it is. >> susan paige, you're writing about trouble in trump land discussing the way some of his supporters have been feeling recently about donald trump. there is a core that will go with him, and i have heard even over the weekend some people say, of course, i don't love, and i have no respect for, and i have complete contempt and disdain for the kkk, and neo-nazis and everyone else who is marching through the streets of charlottesville, virginia, but i still like that he is standing up for who we are and helping us take piece of our america back. do you think that group of people, whatever that number is, 30%, 35%, will ever leave his side? >> you know, we found something interesting. we've gone back to a voter panel we set up of trump supporters. we've gone to talk to them four times this year first in the heady days of the inauguration in january and just recently in the past ten days or so. we heard something different this fourth time around. for the first time we heard

these trump supporters couching their support with some cavats. yes, i still support him, but i wish he could get something done through congress. yes, i support him, but i am worried by all this turmoil in the white house staff. some people volunteered that they did not like how attorney general sessions had been treated by the president. they didn't understand why the president did that. we're not seeing them say, oh, i regret my vote. i wish i had voted for hillary clinton, but we are seeing qualms emerging that we haven't seen before. these are issues that the president is going to have to address to hold these supporters, and i think that's one reason we're seeing things like this remarkable re-election campaign ad that started airing on tv this weekend. >> julia, question for you. that montage we showed at the beginning of the segment of republican presidents and candidates talking over the years. obviously, that's the story that conservatives tell themselves about the movement and what they believe in it. it's the high church of republican politics. trump obviously found that there was a strain and an audience for what he does on race and immigration. did he find something new? was it always there?

did he activate it? what is really going on with that movement and the people who are entranced and glad to see him and see his politics as linked that kind of politics? >> you have seen a lot of this kind of discussion on the right that actually the slave holders and the confederates were democrats and that they're the party of lincoln, completely ignoring nixon's southern strategy and the flip between democrats and republicans. now they're hiding behind that 19th century republican legacy, and mistaking the 20th century republican legacy. i think that this is -- this is a key part of his campaign. this is -- and his campaign and his presidency. it's a backlash to what they deride as identity politics and a backlash to, frankly, to the first african-american president. >> does anything change out of

this, out of this conversation that we've been having? does it change the dynamic in washington? does it change the dynamic in the country? >> i think it can. i think that when you see something as blatant as this, it can lead to change. we're having 1,000 ministers march on the anniversary of dr. king's speech two weeks from today. i've had more white moderate ministers to say we're marching with you, which is why i don't want to get into name-calling and give them a way out. donald trump would love to say al sharpton just called me a racist. i'm not excusing you. i'm saying your policies are racist. defend your policies. because people are hurting. people are unevenly and unequally employed, getting health care, getting education. that's what you want to debate about in this country. not about people's personal name-calling. i think that a lot of people are shifting now saying, wait a minute, if you can't denounce something as raw as this, let me look at your policies. i'm not going to get in the way

of that by how we display ourselves. we're putting the moral leaders, 1,000 ministers, to march from monument to king's monument. we're going to martin loouuther king's monument and show the america of today, not the america of confederacy. let mr. trump then for defend that his poefllicies don't represent that. we can always get in a private group and argue about how the bigot that i think he may be or that danny may they i may be. i'm going to keep calling you danny. let's not give him an escape route because what he wants is for us to act like him, and we are not going to bring ourselves to that. >> reverend around, let's agree to disagree. >> passive aggressive. danny, i like that. >> what's the best case scenario that comes out of this charlottesville? >> that we begin to actually talk to each other and hear each other. i think that charlottesville was a wake-up call, and as i say until we start telling the truth to one another and being honest

about as reverend al rightly said, there's economic despair, there's poverty, there's joblessness, and white working class america is feeling the pinch, but so is black and brown america, and i want my white brothers and sisters to know we hear you, we see you, we understand, but we're feeling the same thing. we're not enemies of each other, and we've got to stop fighting each other and start talking to each other and finding a way forward as reverend al said in talking about the issues that we need to focus on as a nation. that's the best outcome. >> well said. sofia nelson, thank you. sofia's piece is on nbc news.com. it's now time for business before the bell with cnbc's sarah eisen. big news. another high profile ceo leaving the president's council. who is it? >> yeah. this is ken frazier, the ceo of merck pharmaceuticals. we just got word that he is stepping off of president trump's manufacturing advisory council in response to the president's response on charlottesville. let me read you some of his

statements here. our country's strengths, as frazier, stems from its diversity and the contributions made by men and women of different faiths, races, sexual orientations, and political believes. america's leaders must honor our fundamental values by clearly rejecting expressions of hatred, bigotry, and group supremacy, which run counter to the american ideal that all people are created equal, and then he goes on to say, willie that as ceo of merck and as a matter of personal conscious, i feel a responsibility to take a stand against intolerance and extremism. this is the first time a ceo has stepped down from a council related to this specific issue. not the first time, though, a ceo has stepped down from one of president trump's councils. remember elan musk stepped down after president trump withdrew the u.s. from the paris climate accord. this will be an interesting thread for us to follow here because president trump has painted himself the ceo in chief, the business president. all of these ceos come to the white house. he does have business friendly policies like cutting taxes and

spending on infrastructure, but these social policies around his response to charlottesville, you have been discussing all morning. around climb change and other issues could be too much for some of these ceos. now we're starting to see fall-out, guys. >> eventually they fallout. >> eventually e they become business decisions. sara eisen, thank you very much. coming up next, president trump likely to address the violence in charlottesville again, but will he condemn supremacy, nazis and the kkk? we'll ask tom perez what he wants to hear from the president. and a new direction for the democratic party? and a new ad from the trump campaign. ♪ back in the 90's, when billy wanted to ask madeline out on a date, he would call her corded house telephone and get permission to speak to her. today is a lot different. billy just slides into madeline's dm and she'll respond with "oh hayyy! swing by 4 dinnr! smiley face heart emoji" even though courtship has become less strict,

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if that's so, joe scarborough on that campaign. mika was in there as americans were waiting for a response from the president about nazis and the kkk they instead got a new trump campaign ad rolled out yesterday.

chairman of the democratic national committee, tom perez. good to see you. >> always pleasure. >> let me ask you a question a lot of democrats have been asking as their temperatures have risen as they of watched donald trump. what is the plan to defeat him in four years? democrats are getting a little worried, getting a little antsy, they don't know who the person is, who the candidate is, and they don't quite know what the message is. so what is it? >> we lead with our values, we say, for instance, this weekend, this was an act of domestic terrorism. this was a hate crime and the people who committed it should be held to justice, we'll throw the book at them. that's what we should be saying. on the economy, we're always fighting for good jobs, for better futures, for opportunity for everyone in every zip code. donald trump is a divider. we are uniters. we believe that zip codes should never determine destiny and i couldn't help but laugh at the ad they just saw because you know what, the pace of job growth has actually slowed under donald trump.

you recall a year ago when we were in the 75th or 76th month in a row of private sector job growth, he said the unemployment rate was 40%, which was, of course, a lie. and so you saw what the president inherited, the worst resgs of our lifetime. you saw what we were able to accomplish, saving a million jobs in the auto industry and the rest that was accomplished. there's a heck of a lot more work do. what democrats are fighting for in the months and years ahead is economic opportunity for everyone and inclusion and opportunity. >> respectfully, those are things that president barack obama did over eight years. he's not walking through that door tomorrow, to borrow a phrase from rick pitino. who's the candidate? who can carry us to the finish loon and defeat donald trump? >> i think there are a number of candidates that will be out there. you know, back in 199 7, george herbert walker bush won again, people said who's going to be our candidate? you know what, there was a robust process.

we've got elections in new jersey in 2017 starting to look like 2005. the last time the democrats took the governorships in new jersey and we took the house. >> susan page of "usa today" has a question for you. >> mr. chairman, hillary clinton's big book comes out next month, what happens, you didn't mention her naum in your litany of people to be carrying the flag for the party. what kind of role do you think she should play or do you want her to play? i think that will be up to

secretary clinton. she's done a lot for the party and for nation. only she will decide what her role is to be. i appreciate everything she's done both for the party and the nation. >> mr. chairman, respectfully, i'm going to push back on that ad. unfortunately, i did that most of my life, that's a very effective ad actually, and the problem is why it's effective, you want to talk about nuances but the headline is look how great things are. if the democrats merely run on he's a bad guy, he's divisive, that didn't work. unfortunately, it's a sad state of affairs of our moral compass if you run on, okay, jobs are coming back, economy is better than ever, with e oar goie're g doing it, yes, he's jerk and bigot, you need a different message on the democratic side. you can't say pants on fire, he's bad guy. you need something on the economic side to conflict that. >> i agree. we don't simply talk about the bad things donald trump has done.

we talk about the things democrats have done and will continue to d. we of always been fighting for economic opportunity. the affordable care act debate, we believe that health care is a right for all, not a privilege for a few and we'll continue to fight for universal health care. we've always been fighting to make sure people who work a full-time job earn a middle-class wachbl. we've always been fighting for retirement security and the other side has been fighting independence it. now that donald trump will be running for re-election presumably, he'll have a record to run on. and we can compare empty rhetoric with the reality. we can also talk about what we stand for and what we will do as democrats, building a better deal and brighter future, better tomorrows for everyone. and, you know, my parents taught me that, you know, if you blow out your neighbor's candle, it doesn't make your candle shine any brighter. he lives in a zero-sum world where you can have something but only at the expense of someone else. that's not who we are as americans.

we can have shared prosperity for everyone in every zip code if we work together. >> thank you, tom perez. >> good to be with you. >> what should the democrats' message be? >> they should go to our base and say this is our vision, this is how we equalize america and bring everyone to an equal opportunity and equal protection under the law. they need to stop running from their base, chasing people that never will be with them. >> all right, reverend sharpton, thank you. thank you all. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up our coverage right now. >> thanks so much, willie. good morning. what a day we are facing. during a press conference with the president of colombia, vice president pence reacted to the violent rally in charlottesvi e charlottesville. e hi there. i'm rustephanie ruhle. this morning, what a weekend to