hi, everyone. it's 4:00 and his third attempt, donald trump outed racism as evil and specifically condemned the kkk and neo-nazis as repugnant. it was a response more than 50 hours in the making and it followed two days of public remarks from the president and the white house that came up well short of what many members of his own party called for in response to violence incited in charlottesville, virginia. here's the president this afternoon at the white house. >> racism is evil. and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs. including the kkk, neo-nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as americans. we are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal.

we are equal in the eyes of our creator. we are equal under the law. >> today's comments were part of a two day clean-up effort to stem fallout created by donald trump's first comments around the same time that news outlets were reporting that violence there had taken a startling turn. the remarks we're about to show you make were made that a car had crashed into the counterprotesters and 20 minutes before it was publicly confirmed that haets -- heather heyer had lost her life there. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. on many sides. >> while those many sides remarks spurned a weekend of crushing condemnation and calls for the president to speak out against the racist elements within his own base of support, he didn't clean them up neatly

or efficiently. the white house released an anonymous statement to reporters yesterday, the president said very strongly in his statement saturday that he condemns all forms of violence, bigotry and hatred, of course that includes white supremacists, kkk, neo nat cyst and he called for national unity for bringing all americans together. and the clarification of the president's views on the kkk, neo-nazis and white supremacy came after a morning tweet storm targeting democrats and a member of his own american manufacture council, ken frazier. frazier resigned from the presidential council over donald trump's response to charlottesville. in his announcement, frazier writes as ceo of merck and as a matter of personal conscience, i feel i should take a stand. and trump's response to frazier's resignation came in less than an hour.

joining us today is kelly o'donnell who is at the white house. also joining us is national political reporter for politico, iliana johnson. and john heilman, national urban league president, mark morual. weekly standard founder, george -- bill kristol and georgetown president, michael eric dyson, an op-ed writer and author of "tears we can not stop." kelly o, let me start with you because i know the news has been breaking fast and furiously at the white house. take us through the day's events so far. >> well, of course coming back to the white house was something that none of us had expected because the president has made it clear that the president would have an opportunity here to try to take at swing at

addressing the issue. i don't mean to be flip -- take another opportunity to address the issue and by doing so, he could take a page from what was happening in the investigation. meet with the attorney general, meet with the new fbi director. get their knowledge about what has been transpired, use that as a way to as we heard him say update the nation. at the same time, there has been a lot of frustration among the trump advisers that there has been so much attention paid to what the president did not say and as they would argue he had said a lot of other things saturday and again today that have a more healing tone, that called for unity. those kinds of things, but the omission until today was so glaring. then you had his own daughter tweeting about it. and notably the president did not retweet his own daughter. that's something he frequently does. and so today they had to put in a new statement. he appeared to cling to the text much more carefully than he did on saturday where you could

visibly see him go from the page to riffing a bit, back to the page. he clearly knew he had to be more specific and to use the words that he did so he moved the ball forward today. he said more. addressed it more fully. but it will take some time to determine if this is the last thing he needs to say about it. or if this is an opportunity for him to clean up what was not done right the first time at a moment -- imagine what the reaction would be if the first time on saturday he had been much more fully acknowledging the pain and the riffs in this. how he would have enjoyed some positive reaction to that. >> what explanation have you been given for why he didn't do that? one theory it was a lethal combination of political crassness that he did indeed welcome all supporters, all voters including from this ugly fringe element, and the other

was that he didn't like being handled. he didn't like people telling him what he had to do very much like the reaction to the "access hollywood" tapes. >> i had more about the resistance to being told what he must do and then carrying that out. i think that's very clearly one of the threads we have seen in a lot of different examples with the president. where he doesn't have to be force to do something. in addition to that, a number of people in his orbit who have been unable to answer why it was so difficult. and many others who have had to sort of support him because of their proximity have been uncomfortable over these last 48 hours. this is not something -- this topic area is not something that an already struggling white house wants to be dealing with. even today to see him come out and talk about the economy, he started with the economy. which was not the point of this. >> right. before we lose you, i want to play something that i believe you witnessed. he also -- eli stokols calls its

a tell, under a lot of strain, a fresh swipe against the press. >> can you say why you didn't up condemn over the weekend? >> earn this condemned. >> you said on friday you'd have a press conference -- >> we had a press conference. we just had a press conference. >> can we ask you some more questions, sir? >> [ indiscernible ]. i like real news, you're fake news. >> do you regret -- >> kelly o, that was president donald trump sparring with cnn's jim acosta. a frequent sparring partner of the president's. what do you make of this on a day when they're trying to reset the tone, trying to tap into the nation's alarm over the events of the weekend and the president's response to them frankly throwing new fresh punches against a member of the media. >> the president did seem uncomfortable there and of course he was surrounded by some

business colleagues, if you will. so that is an awkward experience on saturday he had veterans there. i think that adds to the discomfort that is visible with the president. when he's being asked about these subjects where he has clearly had difficulty fully answering and he is in the company of people he respects. i think that is problematic for him. then sparring with the media is an automatic reflex. that's first thing he will go to. and he has told us repeatedly he would have a press conference today. this was not a press conference. there was no press conference. and so that question certainly was a legitimate one to ask. >> thank you, kelly o. thank you so much. come back in the hour if news breaks. it often does. thanks for spending some time with us. mark, let me start you. just first your thoughts on this third attempt at correctly addressing -- >> what struck me today was it took 45 minutes to attack ken frazier. attack him by name in a disparaging way -- >> the man who resigned as -- >> yeah, the merck ceo.

yet it took 45 hours to get your moral compass correct to make the statement that could have easily been made two days ago. and so i think this statement -- i'll give him the statement has now been made but other things need to happen. number one, gorka and bannon and miller what is their connection to these alt-right neo-nazi, confederate groups? if they're connected with them they have no place as advisers to the president of the united states and as public employees in the white house. number two, the president's budgetary blue print has made an assault on the civil rights enforcement mechanisms that have been build up over the last 40 to 50 years in the government. i would like to see him walk that back. this is the beginning, the hate groups apparently are now planning other marches. in richmond, i hear in texas, and other places around the nation. so one statement is one

statement. it isn't the end of a difficult, difficult chapter in american history. >> eric, weigh in on the first reaction and what it says about the president's reflexes. >> well, first of all, excuse me, i think that what president -- what president trump did on saturday and the aftermath of these heinous events was pretty reprehensible. it was as easy as pie to say, look, what happened, it was a white supremacist gesture and we reject this as the basis and logic of american democracy and i as a president have no truck with that. instead, he led with ambiguity. he led with false parallels and equivalen equivalencies, trying to draw a fast and hard parallel between black lives matter protesters and others who were against the display of violence on the bigoted right, and those who are

a part of the alt-right. so this kind of false equivalency and his inability to speak up honestly and forthrightly about what's going on means that this president, whether intentionally or not, has reinforced the basis of white supremacy in american. and emboldened them in a way. look at their websites and the internet and the extraordinary glee that met and greeted donald trump's initial response. this sounds like so much coercion. this is bowing down to and capitulating to the very thing that he claims he will never bow down to, the politically correct atmosphere in this country that happens of course to be the right win. that is to say we as americans will not have anything to do with this in any fashion. anybody who does this is subverting the rich traditions of american democracy. unfortunately, our president as mr. morual has indicated what is

mr. gorka, miller and bannon, what do their alt-right positions have to do with amplifying in the president's ear some of the most heinous and belligerent beliefs expressed on the streets in charlottesville. it's not simply he doesn't want to be told what's not to do. there's a tremendous relationship between certain elements of that administration and what we saw so ugly and horridly displayed in charlottesville last weekend. >> michael eric dyson, let me apologize for botching your name and ask you a quick follow-up. any personnel changes -- i mean, do you draw a neat line around gorka, miller and bannon? is there a line or do you think that they're simply speaking to something that goes higher up the chain of command? >> well, it's both. first of all, they should be gotten rid of as soon as possible and secondly, this president -- let's not forget

this is the man who amplified and echoed the birther movement against the first african-american president in the nation's history. well beyond logic or rationality he prosecuted the case against barack obama that was troubling on many sides. so the amplification of bigotry is nothing new to him. the echo of racist views have manifested themselves in donald trump. yes, it goes higher than the people who advise him. it may be indeed in the brain and in the breath and in the thinking of the very man who was the chief executive officer of the united states of america. >> bill kristol, i set that up for you. i followed you closely on twitter all weekend and your concerns go all the way to the top. >> yeah. i'm not really interested anymore in psycho analyzing trump or grading every little statement of his, moving up from failing to a d-plus or a "c" and what he has to do next to prove

us. we should care about what he does, he's the president of the united states. that's a serious matter but i have given up on looking for moral leadership from this president. i never thought he was capable of it, that's why i wasn't for him and he is who he is. with eshould argue about -- we should argue about what gorka should be on tv. so if we can get john kelly strength -- to remove gorka that's good for the country. but trump is not our moral leader. he's not going to be a national healer. there are many others who can do that. this is a large contract. the president is only one person. there are other elected officials. i think as a republican -- >> let me just stop you on that point. i'm going to let you finish, but is he the instigator? i mean, these are people that stood in the street brazenly. i mean, i take your point and i agree with you. he's not going to be a healer but i think the question to answer and the question for republicans to answer with more

than tweets is is he instigating? is there -- i mean, i know leaders in charlottesville think that's a string that can be drawn between the two. >> i think there's some connection -- there have been some connections. i don't mean to minimize. lack of leadership is very bad. the things he's done from the birther movement on are bad. and the damage -- the real damage has been done. what can we do? we can try to get jeff sessions the attorney general who's very conservative, but ultimately i think a decent man to make the kind of statement he made saturday night which went way above president trump. we can get others in government to do the right thing. we can urge senators and especially republicans obviously to step up. i think there's been some heartening evidence this was a step too far for them to keep quiet and keep on accommodating and rationalizing a president of their party. many other leaders in american civil society, synagogues and whoever can play a bigger role. i'm not minimizing the role of

the president. obviously i'm going to continue to monitor it. we need to monitor the administration, he's the president of the united states. but i think we need to monitor him as president and hold him totally accountable for what he and the white house and the administration do and say. but i don't think we should get ourselves -- if only he makes a better statement tomorrow he's restored to a position of moral leadership. >> that he never had it, john. >> yeah. one thing to look to the president this president for moral leadership. that's something that bill kristol and many others think is a fool's errand at this point. >> what do you think -- >> i think we can demand of the president and where he's fallen short so far is not to -- can't do moral leadership. not to make the situation worse. what we're going to see, what we saw over the weekend was neo-nazis, kkk members, claiming trump as their own in their written postings out loud. they say this is our guy. they say explicitly he's given us permission.

he has instigated. he has incited. he's created a climate. they say it. this isn't the liberal media. this is the members of these groups who are saying it. to me the only metric which we can john trump on is not does he suddenly become a moral leader because he's not going to be as bill kristol said. does he pour gasoline on the fire and do we see another vent like this and when it does, we need to dig deep into the groups. how they talk to themselves, how they spread their messages and are they citing the white house and donald trump? do they hear what he said today? or what he said on saturday? i think they hear what he said on saturday and what he didn't say on saturday. this will look to them like capitulati capitulation, political correctness on saturday. his true feelings wither on saturday and i predict they'll go out and sooner rather than later we'll have another incident like this and we can say that the president is in

some fundamental way responsible for this. he wasn't just a shining bright beacon but he did nothing to damp this done. >> can i add a word -- that's very well said. but it does emphasize to me the role of governors, mayors, other -- other officials but also civic leaders. they have to play because we don't -- we want to minimize the damage frankly that donald trump can do. if you're a governor especially a republican governor of state, especially a state that has some of the groups you really have to step up. if you're a mayor, if you're a priest or a minister or a rabbi or an imam, if you're a business leader, i think it puts more responsibility on the rest of the country to -- >> i agree with you. but -- but we're in month six, what are we doing for 3 1/2 years? >> i'm worried about that. that is very worry some. >> let me bring you into the conversation. this is general kelly -- two weeks on the job. how's it going? >> well, i think this can only

be viewed as a failure for him because it falls into an old familiar pattern for the president where he's backed up against the wall and asked to condemn or disavow the white supremacists or alt-right groups he does the same sort of thing. which is he goes mute or gives vague and equivocal answers and i think that's a nod to the white supremacists, a wink and a nod that he's with them and then he condemns them a couple of days later to tamp down the pressure he's getting and john knows this well, because you interviewed him about -- when david duke endorsed him. and for days and indeed i think it was three months between august and february of last year, he said i don't know who david duke is. did he endorse me, i don't know. finally he said, okay, i disavow him. >> what he said to me that day was if it will make you feel better. literally he said, if it will

make you feel better i disavow him. an extraordinary thing to say about david duke. >> for three days, he ran that play and then came out and gave, you know, an unequivocal disavowal of the groups and i think john is right. where david duke could see in that, you know -- >> i think it's striking, the president has made his mark on being a tough guy, a macho man. attacking people. attacking terrorists. this is a third instance where there's been an act of domestic racial violence. there was the mosque bombing, there was the incident in portland, and now this where there wasn't a forceful moral, unequivocal statement immediately by this president. so i think -- >> why do you think that is? >> well, i think the president is confused between quote his politics. i have to cater to my base and

his responsibility when he raised his hand and said i'm the president of the united states. when the election is over, you're president of everyone and the institution of the presidency -- go back and look at reagan, even reagan's words or kennedy's or johnson's words or obama's words in a moment of crisis. swift, immediate, healing and moral in tone. that's what we deserve from the president. >> let me tell the viewers what we're watching in the bottom of the screen. we are waiting for the charlottesville police, the virginia police to brief us on the investigation and the events over the weekend. when they start, and when that news takes place there we'll go right to it. but let me keep this going with you, michael. and ask you, just to pick up this thread about what a president does in the moments after a crisis and let me just put this out there. i worked for george w. bush. i obviously think a lot of the man, but he was judged for many years for his initial reaction on 9/11 when he stayed in that

classroom and continued to read a book for better or for worse, his side of the story was he didn't want to alarm school kids. but he'll be judged forever. that will be part of his legacy. i started by asking you about the president's reflexes and instincts. i want to stay there because these are no -- it's not a coincidence. every time there's a question about some the ugliest part of that trump base, he always equivocates or defers or says what he says to john heilman, if it will make you feel better i'll condemn them. where do we go in here? >> well, we have to be honest about it. i think that the disjuncture between kristol's conception of the moral presidency and heilman's argument about his behavior don't have to be in fatal contradiction. the reality is that the president has another authority, the bully pulpit. it has been used widely and broadly by presidents of the united states of america to articulate the moral center of

this country. the nerve center of our agreement with the fundamental principles of democracy. if reagan talked about slipping the surly bonds and the aftermath of the challenger disaster, if bill clinton spoke to us about the depth of race in this country and what we need to do about it through a commission, if barack obama tried to summon the better angels of our nature in deference to his own mentor, abraham lincoln then we have on both sides of the aisle whether we agree with them politically or ideologically the expression of a certain kind of home grown eloquence in the face of crisis that allows the amplification of who we are as a nation. this president has not only failed to do that, but we know that the presidency cannot remake you from the bottom up. it amplifies you from the top down. and what we see -- what we hear amplified in him is a deep consternation against political

correctness which translates into having a kind of contempt for mexicans, for muslims, for transgender and african-american and other people. we must tell the truth. we have a president who is not rooting for our best interests. in america. and guess what, even the white working class that voted for him, even the white brothers and sisters who felt that finally we have a voice piece and he'll articulate our beliefs he's not done them done well. martin luther king jr. in jail, approached by the white warden, dr. king, this integration is wrong and king said, no, it is. me said you need to be out here marching with us, we will gain together more by forging connections than by being divided. most other presidents have seen the necessity of that. even if we're critical of them and might i end by saying something that i thought i'd never say. must i write an apology letter

to george w. bush and say we thought you were the most inarticulate bum fumbling president we might have conjured in our scariest imagination and yet we have a president proud to be unmolested by enlightenment and untouched by the human empathies that should motivate all chief executives. this is a shame of our choice and we have to make a different decision soon. >> we'll hit a pause and take you to the police briefing in charlottesville. >> we will pursue charges against the driver of the vehicle that caused her death and are confident justice will prevail. the virginia state police lieutenant cullen and trooper bates were working this past weekend to protect our community. these men gave their lives in a line of duty. their loss is a loss for us all. and we mourn with their families and colleagues. we are working with the heyer

family to ensure that the safety of vigils and other memorials that are planned for this week are safe. we plan to keep the fourth street crossover closed until further notice as there are thousands of flowers lining the street. that's the location of the crash site. we are establishing a hotline for any victims or witnesses to contact local authorities and provide information that may not have been reported during the weekend. we understand it was a traumatic weekend for everyone. we are still receiving reports of assaults and additional crimes and we are working with the state and local partners to investigate thoroughly any criminal or civil rights violations that may have occurred this past weekend that have not yet been reported. throughout the entire weekend, virginia state police, charlottesville police department intervened to break up fight and altercations among

those in attendance at the rally site. this began on friday night and continued through sunday. the city trucked approximately 250 calls for service on saturday alone. and many of the conflicts, individuals would strike and then disappear back into the crowd. aid was rendered to 36 injured individuals on saturday including several of the traffic crash victims on water street. the early morning hours on saturday, virginia state police and charlottesville police who are positioned in and around and across the street from emancipation park to monitor the reaction of the crowds and respond as quickly as possible when emergencies arose. there were also state and local police on foot patrols and at road closures at various locations throughout the parks. so we could respond to

emergencies occurring beyond the immediate area of emancipation park. law enforcement were staged at mcintire park as well. you can see we had a large footprint during this entire endeavor. around 10:00 the unite the right attendees began arriving and entering the park. we had a plan to bring them in at the rear of the park. they had agreed to cooperate with the plan. unfortunately, they did not follow the plan. they began entering at different locations and in and around the park and we had to quickly alter our plans to help facilitate that process. other groups also began amassing along the street and in the park. gradually the crowd sizes increased along with aggressiveness and hostility of attendees towards one another. shortly before 1 1:00 a.m., individuals in the crowd began to throw things and spread

chemical agents in the crowd, and there was a declaration of emergency made. there was mutually engaged combatants with one-on-one attacks following. an unlawful assembly was declared and the state troopers moved individuals os of park and through -- individuals out of the park and through the streets. the charlottesville police were on site and we were again hoping that the members of the alt-right rally would cooperate with our safety plan. of ingres and egress. once the violence began to erupt we transitioned our officers into the protective equipment and we proceeded with an organized response to ensure we can safely restore order around the park. no tear gas was deployed on saturday by any law enforcement officers. there were a few instances where the state police deployed oc or pepper pray on those refusing to comply to leave emancipation

park. i would like to take a moment and open the floor to questions if you have any. >> why -- >> last month, you -- [ indiscernible ]. >> i'm not sure that information is credible, but yes, we have heard those rumors as well. no one has contacted us directly concerning other demonstrations in and around this state. >> [ indiscernible ]. >> fourth street -- 2:00 p.m. it was supposed -- >> i'm not sure whether or not the fourth street crossing was open. i don't have the action plan with me currently but i am certain that the action plan called for the street to be closed. >> [ indiscernible ].

>> you were here, you were there from the beginning, the middle of the rally, you had the two sides separate. >> well, this was a completely different event from the rally on july the 8th. the entire option -- action plan was different. we did make attempts to keep the two sides separate. however, we can't control which side someone enters the park. we had agreements and worked out a security plan to bring the groups in and separate entrances. again, they decided to change the plan and entered the park in different directions. >> [ indiscernible ]. >> chief, can you comment on reports that the police did not do enough to break up the fights? it was suggested they were intimidated by the firepower on the right. can you comment on this a? >> we were not intimidated by the firepower of the alt-right, however it was prudent to make sure that officers were equipped

to go out and deal directly with the violence at hand. originally we had officers out in their everyday uniform. we were hoping for a peaceful event. we urged leaders from both sides to engage in a nonviolent demonstration. once the violence erupted, once the plan was altered, we had to quickly transition our officers into the protectsive gear. once the unlawful assembly was declared we requested the state police mobile field force to deploy in their right gear and they went to guard the rear. >> [ indiscernible ]. >> i witnessed personally dozens of acts of violence, being peoples be assaulted. the police officers were on the site and watching. did you give any orders to the police officers? >> no. >> when it turned violent -- [ indiscernible ].

>> we did clear the park. and we had -- once the crowds were dispersed they went to many locations throughout the city. at that time, we had to -- actually send our forces to multiple locations to deal with the number of the disturbances in and around the downtown area. it took probably an hour to gain control of the streets. we had the groups that were moving constantly. we were following a number of groups and ensuring that they were being peaceful. but it was a challenge. it was certainly a challenge. we were spread thin once the groups dispersed. >> [ indiscernible ]. any point a thought process to say, this might not be a good idea to let these people continue to march around the streets knowing they were agitated at that point? >> yeah, we have to focus on

behavior and criminal activity. not just citizens walking in our streets. >> after the -- [ indiscernible ]. do you have any regrets? do you wish you would have come in more prepared? you knew what was coming. do you regret not having your officers better prepared and in the proper gear earlier so they could -- >> absolutely, i have regrets. >> [ indiscernible ]. >> we lost three lives this weekend. >> i'm talking about -- >> i have -- i certainly have regrets. we lost three lives this weekend. a local citizen and two fellow officers. we certainly have regrets. it was a tragic weekend. >> from your department, do you regret your action -- >> i explained what our regrets were. we regret in tragic day. we regret that we had a tragic outcome and we lost lives.

>> chief, do you believe that one side was more responsible than the other for instigating the violence? >> this was an alt right rally. >> do you believe that they're the ones who instigated the fighting? >> we did have mutually combative individuals in the crowd. we try to be patient, we try to give the individuals in the crowd who wanted to leave, we wanded to make sure that they were able to leave safely. we facilitated that process, we had a number of individuals who chose to remain and cause violence. cause disturbances in our community. >> [ indiscernible ]. >> -- in other -- conducted your law enforcement, when the officers were instructed to make no arrests without the explicit approval of the charlottesville mayor. a law enforcement agent was outraged. did you instruct them not to

make arrests unless -- >> no, i want to know who that officer who made those remarks. that's not true. thank you for your time. >> can i ask one last question? what will you do differently next time, sir? >> we have been watching the police chief of charlottesville, virginia and i wonder what you think watching an african-american police chief defend the mission of protecting what he described as an alt-right rally that ended in a tragic way? >> well, everyone has the right to peacefully assemble. everyone has a right to have a peaceful march. where this crossed this line is with the provocation and the violence. mine, i would take -- i mean, i would take offense and fight granting a permit to any group marching with torches and shields and baseball bats because all of that taken together is nothing but

provocative behavior. and goes beyond i think the protective right to peacefully assemble. so the police have to protect the constitutional rights and keeping order. i think it's clear that one group came loaded for bear, looking for a confrontation, and unfortunately, the confrontation took place. and a person died. >> the police chief said this was an alt-right rally when asked if one side or the other deserved more blame. when we come back, crushing trump 140 characters at a time. republicans express outrage on twitter but is anything going to change? (vo) my name is bryan.

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prejudice. to those individuals who persist in such hateful behavior, if i were speaking to them instead of to you, i would say to them you are the ones who are out of step with our society. you are the ones who willfully violate the dream of america and this country because of what it stands for will not stand for your conduct. >> that was president ronald reagan addressing the naacp in 1981. that's how the leader of the republican party used to address racism. today, it takes three days to condemn white supremacists by name. joining us now, republican strategist and msnbc contributor steve schmidt and michael steele. michael schmidt, what's happening? >> well, what we saw on saturday is ku klux klan, neo-nazis, we saw armed paramilitary right

wing militia marching through a university town, one of the most historic in the country. we saw the instigation of violence. we saw the violence and murder. and we saw a profound moral failure on the part of the president of the united states to be able to identify this evil. to address it by name. and to communicate to the nation and that moral lapse will hang around him for all time. >> michael, let me read you something from my former bush white house colleague mike gerson. at one level this is the natural result of defining authenticity as spontaneity. trump and his people did not believe it was worthy of serious caught and he's confident that his lazy musings are equal to history. they are not. they are an embarrassment and a disservice to the country.

do you agree with michael grson -- gerson's assessment? >> i think that's fair assessment of where the president is coming from but i think it goes deeper than that. just many any dealings with -- my dealings with president trump over the years the one thing that struck me about the difference between what we saw taking three days and the immediate response to the ceo of merck mr. frazier was personal. this event wasn't personal. it wasn't an attack on him. he was agnostic about it in the internationals upon. it was kind of forced, i have to respond, okay. when you saw when frazier stepped down from the council because of this incident, his response was immediate, within two hours, well, maybe you can do something about your jacked up prices. that was personal. >> you know, michael steele, a great point. steve, let me bring you in on

this. i understand back to the campaign that getting donald trump to read anything they had to put -- they were only the stories about him that he would read. we're just talking about political news clips. i understand in his briefings at the white house from his policy teams, extending sadly into the national security folks they have to intersperse his name and where it applies to him. there's this affliction that if it isn't about -- he doesn't see himself as a leader of a country. he's a guy monitoring his twitter feed. >> a guy monitoring his twitter feed or leading a faction, his narcissism is well known. there's nobody who can say that we got a different president than the one that was elected. beginning with his desecration of the cia, clandestine service monument, where he talks about his crowd sizes. he talks about his election. he brags incorrectly about the dimensions in the historic nature of it. this is nothing new for this president. but what we now know for sure --

and bill kristol is exactly right about this. we have a president of the united states who lacks any -- any moral authority. domestically, internationally and i would argue that absence of moral authority on the part of a president of the united states coarsens our country. makes the country a worst place to live and abroad makes it more dangerous. >> michael steele, quickly, then i'm going to bring the rest of the table in here. republicans were quick to get to twitter, express their outrage in the 140 character increments but they don't ever do anything. do you think they'll do anything now? >> no. >> that's its? >> no. they're not. look this is a box now check that the president has said what he said and you're going to see that the great exhale on this by a lot of republicans around this town. including leadership.

they don't want to have the deal with the prickly issue of race. they don't want to have to deal with it in the context of the republican party so this president in terms of doing what he did today and saying what he said has given them a little bit more cover to go back and say, yeah, well, he could have said -- you know, he did press the issue. you know, he did call it out. well, to steve's point, with very, very little, you know, moral authority to do so at this point. and how do you recover that? this is a brand now on the party. he's the titular head, we have to carry this to into 2018. candidates have to talk about where were you on this, are you with the president, are you with the alt-right? or are you some place where the republican party used to be? >> ileana, why don't his poll numbers inspire different behavior? he likes to win, he's vain. why doesn't being at 33% inspire some sort of change in his own behavior? if for nothing else to make his poll numbers go up and his press

get peter. >> because he won the election in november where he defied all the polls and he defied so much conventional wisdom it's easy for him to do dis -- to dismiss the polls and believe he can pull off something extraordinary again. but make no mistake, i mean, the people around the president are giving him different advice and telling him to behave differently and are deeply embarrassed by the way that he's responded to this. that's in part why he came out and gave a different sort of statement today. i have to disagree a little bit with steve and what michael said. i think you're seeing a gradual distancing between the president and the republican party. but i think it began with john mccain's no vote on health care. and was exasperated by the president's attacks on mitch mcconnell. and then you had senator cory gardner who's the executive director of the national republican senatorial committee responsible for getting republican senators elected an re-elected in 2018 come out and

slam the president over the weekend. i think that's where you can see republicans political calculations come into play. getting out of the realm of -- you know, the president's moral leadership. but into practical politics and i think that's where the mind of republican lawmakers is right now. that this guy is bad for re-election prospects in 2018. >> quick last word. >> look, i think she's right about this for sure. the fact that there's legislation moving to protect mueller's independence, they set it up so he couldn't do recess appointments, they passed overwhelmingly the russian sanctions, these are all thumbs in the eye. the president does not believe the polls. these hes the polls are fake. >> he has good reason not to believe them. >> you can argue about that. but i'll tell you who thinks the polls is not fake is those republicans on capitol hill. when they see -- steve schmidt talked about the moral leadership question in america and abroad. the overall -- the grinding failure of leadership starts to

wear down your poll numbers and at some point the math for and these members on capitol hill when it gets do unto 31, 32, 29, 28 they'll start to do something. >> depressing it's never about substance, but about political fate. we're hitting pause. thank you so much for being so patient and staying with us through the press conference. up next the general versus the man lampooned as the grim reaper.

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can you and steve bannon still work together in this white house or not? >> i get to work together with a broad range of talented people and it is a privilege every day to enable the national security team. >> you didn't answer can you and steve bannon still work in that same white house. >> i am ready to work with anybody who will help advance the president's agenda and advance the security, pros spirit of the american people. >> do you believe steve bannon does that? >> i believe that everyone who works in the white house, who has the great privilege every day of serving their nation should be motivated by that goal. >> i'm not good at math but i counted three times he feels asked by our chuck todd if he and steve bannon can work together and each time he refused to answer. all of it come down to what axios reports is an anti-mcmaster campaign that's

about to get ug leeier. my panel is back and along with me our friend mark jacobson, also a professor at georgetown university. let me go straight to you just about having to defend this country from threats abroad from foreign countries with designs on attacking us here at home and having to fend off someone like steve bannon? >> well, look, i was laughing watching the chuck todd piece because h h.r. mcmaster as my good friend said is in an impossible situation, but h.r. has learned the washington game. he answered the question to all of us by not answering the question and he's going to do what he can to support the president. he's a professional. he's not scared of people like bannon. i don't agree with him when he says it's all noise. it's noise, but it's going to basketball hisability to do his job. the most important thing is he's not alone. he has general john kelly up there and the two of them, frankly, bannon is no match for them. >> what do you think? i mean, bannon seems to be this

guy that survivals every crisis and somehow emerges with his main line to the president intact. >> i'm not going to predict -- it's possible both of those guys -- we've seen white houses going way back where unhappy coexist ens reins and people find their corners and they find their places and they stay out of eachary's hair. it's no doubt that the bannon wing is waging this. it's no doubt that mcmaster is fighting back. and the importance that donald trump puts on what happened last year when he won the presidency. >> winning and the notion in the way in which he neels in some visceral way that steve bannon is a connection to the base, that he values more than almost anything else, i would never count on the notion that steve bannon will be out of that white house anytime soon no matter how -- there's no doubt trump gets mad at him sometimes, he's in the doghouse sometimes, but i would never bet steve bannon is

going anywhere. >> i think there's a long history of presidents not liking their political advisers. but understanding them as necessary. and this is not a president that appreciates the nuances and the sbik kaesz of foreign policies. do you think your friend h.r. mcmaster is safe. >> i'm going to handicap this a bit. he also has the military on his side. >> he's got john mccain who just put out a tweet in the last hour. >> exactly. he has congress on his side and especially the senate that's incredibly important. but also, the military is difficult a revered institution in this country. and there are ideals such as duty, honor, country, and i think -- >> do you think donald trump understands those? >> no, i don't think so donald trump understands those in the least. but mcmaster understands that and i think that's going to give him some of the political mour. granted he's a political novice in the field where steve bannon is an expert, but i still think there's something that even bannon despite his year or to of military service just never

understood about selflessness. >> but there's an asymmetry and steve bannon is sort of on that -- >> i mean, obviously mcmaster has a reputation intact, but donald trump has -- he anil lighted 16 primary opponents with his asymmetrical ways. >> mcmaster did something on sunday as well in addition to the comments that he made regarding bannon. two things, one, north korea, even though i think he's wrong that we can't deter north korea. mcmaster still made an argument in support of the president. i think president trump will respect that. the second thing was his statements on charlottesville were necessary. some argue he broke a little bit with the president by saying it was a form of terrorism. but i still think he didn't throw the president under the bus. >> he was well served by mcmast r. >> and that's what the president needs. >> i want to say this. all this pafls intrigue is quite interesting, but for an administration, it's disabling. it's disabling when it's a

constant battle between people who are supposed to be working as a team. if i as a chief executive found out nip working for me was orchestrating a campaign against a colleague, they'd be shown the door that day immediately. there's something not right, there's something really bad about this. it's interesting to talk about, but what it does is it distracts from the business of the country. and so to some extent i wonder if this is an indication why having a president who has never been in government, nep never been in politics before, unfamiliar with the complexity and the necessities of the enterprise of the white house, may not fully understand it and therefore one palace story after another. >> talk about the paralysis inside this west wing. >> well, it's pretty paralytic, i think.

look, the question is how much effect -- zbloor in the con tiks of the weekend's events. this is not a well tuned machine. >> it wasn't except that if donald trump had done the right thing on saturday and i know that's saying if my dog could do higher math, the rest of the administration was kind of in the right place. they had to scramble to get behind him when he said what he said on saturday, but nobody criticizing what jeff sessions -- >> they were kind of in the right place. we were on the brink with a income stand off -- >> are we talking north korea or charlottesville right now? >> i thought you were talking about the charlottesville situation. >> i was. just but just in the context they just ka reason from one calamity to another. >> there is not not going to be chaos in the white house. look, i'm not going to say that it's not a chaotic -- chaos and paralysis both coexist inside this white house. it's a very messy situation.

in all of these matters decisions will get made. what is going to happen in north korea, who will trump stand with, are we going to stay in afghanistan and under what circumstances. who is going to win that battle of substance. that is what matters more than anything, more than all of this. >> we are all out of time. you have to come back tomorrow and pick that up. will you do it? is it a date. that's it for us. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" starts right now with katy terr. >> hi there, nicole. and if it's monday, president trump reviesz his message on the tragic events in charlottesville. good evening and welcome to "mtp daily." i'm katy terr in new york in for chuck todd. president trump has been in office for almost eight months, and all along we've wonder erred how will this president respond to the first real crisis.