guests dealing with a difficult subject. as we like the say, we're all in this together. that's "the beat." thank you for watching. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. david duke says thank you, mr. president! let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. this afternoon, donald trump looked into the mirror and made a decision. should i be presidential? act and speak the way others want me to be? or should i be me? well, me won the battle. the man we saw this afternoon was the man elected last november, the man who is now our president. like him, trust him, hate him, fear him, that's your call. he is going to be 100% donald trump. issuing a fuselage against

critics saying he didn't do enough dense white supremacists. he defended his statement on part is both sides are responsible saying that the left bears responsibility in addition to the alt left he? do they have any semblance of guilt? what about the fact they came charging with clubs in their hands, clubs? do they have any problem? i think they do. you had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. and nobody wants to say that. but i'll say it right now. >> he sure did. here's what he the president went on to say when he was asked specifically if he draws a moral equivalence between the counterprotesters and the white supremacist demonstrators. >> are you calling what you call the alt left on the same plain?

>> what i'm saying, is you had a group on one side and a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and it was horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch. but there is another side. i think there's blame. i think there's blame on both sides. you look at both sides. i think there's blame on both sides. and i have no doubt about it. and you don't have any doubt about it either. and -- and if you reported it accurately, you would say that. >> well, he condemned the man now held responsible for the death of one counter protest or. he said they merely wanted to preserve monuments to the southern past. he said they were treated unfairly because many were there peacefully to frequent statue of robert e. lee. >> you had many people in that group other than neo-nazis and white nationalists zpflt press

has treated them absolutely unfairly. >> you were saying the press has treated the white nationalists unfairly. >> no, no. if you look, there were people protesting very quietly. the taking down of the statue of robert e. lee. but you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest. i don't know if you know. they had a permit. the other group didn't have a permit. so i only tell you this. there are two sides to a story. >> well, the president's press conference late today quick will he won him praise from white supremacist david duke, the former grand wizard of the kkk tweeted, thank you, president trump for your honesty and courage to tell the truth about shaltsville. members of the president's own team were stunned tonight by his actions in that press conference

is that remain so apparently. joining me now, hallie jackson, jonathan swan for axios, heidi, the senior reporter for usa today. and jason johnson is a political editor of the root and an msnbc contributor. hallie, you were there today. tell us about the circumstances and why you as a trump expert, you reported on so well so long. what was it? he said i'm tired of playing mr. president, i'll be mr. president in. >> so let me walk through. this i think it might give you some insight into how this went down. the president was supposed to talk about infrastructure. that was the os tenable reason for him coming down to the trump tower. he was flanked by his top advise orkss cab in it level people, like mnuchin, elaine chow, you

might have seen it. i think they played it live. the president talked about his infrastructure plan. and then brought up nick mulvany. there was a question, an anticipation among report here's were, i would say 25 feet back from the president upful will he take some questions? remember last week at bed be minster. er he called up his budget director and said, i would be happy to take some questions on infrastructure. the questions he answered were not on infrastructure. the questions he answered were as you just played, almost exclusively about how his words are impacting his agenda, what he said, how he plans to heal or try heal, as he talks about wanting to do racial divide in this country. and perhaps most explosively, what was an extraordinary back and forth, this idea that he blamed both sides for the violence. this was, listen, i've been in presidential, these interactions with president trump as a candidate, during transition,

during the administration. he was fired up. he has seemed in the last week or so like he has wanted to engage with members of the press more. his new chief of staff john kelly let him, even after his press secretary held up a stand that said last question, he went on for ten minutes. nobody was trying to hold up a sign because of how high, you could feel the moment. right? the president responding to these questions, making these remarks. and i would say this. john kelly stood off to the side. i did not see him because i was lasered in on the president. my producer and my cameraman who were there said you have to see these images and john kelly was standing there. at one point appearing to do almost a double take. lowering his head and folding his arms of the and i think that's indicative. you're right. this was never supposed to happen. the president answering the questions. he was not set to do this. and one senior white house official said he basically went

rogue. >> that's for sure. hold on there. jason, it seems the me that the president made an impossible argument. he said those people who were old southern spam thigsympathiz. somehow they were innocent. that's a hard argument to make. >> these weren't a bunch of ladies saying we don't want to get rid there was because we have our picnics here. i've been saying this for a year. you look at steve bannon, steven miller, you look at the president's relativism, the president is a sympathizer. he gives them a space in our spoet no previous president has ever done and it is a national security threat. and we need to make clear. >> did he point out, it was a murderer and a killer. >> and a terrorist. >> his choice of words.

>> joining me, the form he white house gop committee counsel. and author of the book, empwhat you make of the president's dpefs some of the people in the protest group down will in charlottesville were in fact good guys, basically. that's what he was saying. they weren't all nazis or supremacists. >> for me as someone who has been a lifelong african-american my entire adult life, inspired by jack kemp to join the party in college, i can tell that you this is a very disappointing for me to see a republican president of the united states miss a major moment to bring this country together in the wake of what is unmistakably domestic terrorism, supremacy, naziism, and to hesitate to do all this

footsieism. i don't know what's going on with him but i think he's done a devastating thing to the country and the republican party. >> this looks like spartacus. >> the thing is, if the nazi slogans and chanting wasn't enough to convince you, they were carrying torches. might be the took a basic history class -- >> nuremberg. >> knows what torches represent in our country. >> two things. it treatments kkk and the night riders and it had demonstrates the nazis in the 19mcmxxxs. >> i think in shock and they'll have to come up with a way to respond. >> these people are embowdembol.

>> i said donald trump feels like he's in a straight jacket this morning. he hates being this guy who said what he said yesterday. he didn't believe he would be this perfect president. this politically correct president. he didn't want to stay hard right were the bad guys is the other people were the good guys. he woke up this morning and said i'm going to break out of this straight jacket and i'll be me again. why do you think he decided, i think he was never going to be happy pretending to be a regular president. that he was only happy being donald trump. he made his choice late this afternoon. your thoughts. >> my thoughts are these, chris. it's based on our reporting, that this day, these next couple days, were and have been supposed to focus on the president's agenda. when you talk on people inside the white house, and frankly, even people close to this administration who have frequent conversations with the president and list advisers, they all talk about wanting to get something done. something productive double. with the exception of perhaps the supreme court pick of neil

gorsuch, getting on the court, it is tough on point to a legislative accomplishment that president trump has. so remember what happened up in that room today. hours of discussion about tax reform, according to one person in the white house, and then hours, or some period of discussion about this infrastructure plan that he had rolled out. he wanted this week to be talking about veterans. he wanted to be talking about issues that he wants to move forward. here's what happened. and previously in this administration. what the president wants to do was overshadowed by what he said. that has been a pattern that has repeated itself over the last seven months. republicans on capitol hill, you saw the town hall this morning, they have stuck by him despite being disturbed or dismayed by some of the president's remarks. and remember, they get back to the capitol in two sgeeks they have a real heavy lift in september when it comes to

policy. >> that's important. trump's failed to do what he knows he has to do. stay on course and get something done bust the whole world what happened today. the whole world watched the president of the united states say there's an equivalence morally between people speaking in nazi slogans, giving the hitler salute with people who protested what they were doing. that takes us way back to square one on saturday when that was his gut instinct to do just that. >> i was just talking on a senior white house official who sympathizes with the, a bumt statues. they said this is not the time to make that argument. >> that's hard to say in the charlottesville city council meeting when they decide this stuff. >> this is trump's core, his gut. steve bannon and trump are completely aligned on this. and my reporting today is that steve bannon, he has been argui arguing. he is not with trump. >> trump says he hasn't been

talking with him. >> i hate to tell you, my reporting is that they have spoken by phone in the weekend. >> you can't blame this on bannon. this is trump. >> let me explain. i'm saying they are of one mind this and bannon's view is by coming back and saying these people are terrible and condemning them -- >> that's a big story today. he said we'll see what happens. the guy is already headed under the bus. the president defended his prior statements saying he didn't want to talk about it before he knew facts. so donald trump is saying that donald trump needed to get all the facts before he spoke. there's a remarkable statement. a lack of self-awareness. >> i had to see the facts unlike a lot of reporters. i didn't know david duke was there. i wanted to see the facts, and the facts as they started coming out were very well stated.

it was very important to me to get the facts out and correctly. because if i would have made a fast statement, and the first statement was made without knowing much other than what we were seeing. the second statement was made after, with knowledge. with great knowledge. there's still things -- excuse me, there are still things people don't know. >> so this president as we just heard now, late this afternoon, he said, i didn't have adequate knowledge to speak on saturday. that explainsy didn't condemn the nazis. the bad guys. but then when i did have all the information, i defended the nazis that they're morally equivalent. what good did the information do if he goes back to that? >> the torches and the nazi slogans were kind of enough evidence for most people, including his daughter, the vice president, and many gop senators to feel comfortable that they had the facts with what was going down there.

he when members come back to congress, this will be a difficult moment. we've talked all along about trump's economic he angst. this racial narrative is metastasizing and it is not going away. it is going on in boston, richmond. >> here's an example with david duke. it always pomps up in the worst moments in history. as the president said today, david duke, the former grand wizard of the kkk was in attendance alongside the neo-nazis. but when he was trying to get elected as governor . let's see when tim russert tried to hold him accountable for his past statements on "meet the press." >> what was about it this country, this society that you

chose to become a nazi? what did you find so offensive and so objection babble the united states of america that you found nazi germany to be preferable? >> first off, i was never a member of the nazi party or anything like that. >> do you still think adolf hitler is the greatest genius in the world? >> i never said that. >> as a candidate in february of last year, donald trump refused to promptly condemn david duke after he endorsed his candidacy. >> i don't know anything about david duke. i don't know what you're even talking about while supremacy or white supremacists. you wouldn't want me to condemn a group that i know nothing about. >> nothing about david duke. well, he clearly knew who he was back this 2000 when trump specifically condemned duke as a racist and a bigot. watch this. >> what do you see as the biggest problem with the reform party right now? >> well, you've got david duke

just joined. a bigot, a racist, a problem. this is not exactly the people you want in your party. >> this president seems to have a tactic, when he doesn't want to deal with the racial issues of a racist himself, david duke, he has a problem of memory. he did it before. i didn't know duke was there. i don't even know who he is. oh, yes, i did 17 years ago when i talked about the bigot in the race. this is a guy very uncomfortable with the situation he's in. >> well, more important to me is the failure of moral leadership. when george herbert walker bush was will president of the united states, he had no bones about condemning him. he wouldn't support him. he wouldn't endorse him. he said he didn't want him in the republican party. so donald trump does have selective memory on that. we agree. >> what about selective memory when it comes to willy horton ads in 1988?

you should remember that. should we all remember willy horton, don't say that herbert walker bush is immune to this problem. >> i don't argue a point with you on whether or not willy horton was appropriate. we agree. what i am saying that we're talking about donald trump is that this moment in history and what i think we ought to be focused on, no republican president in my recent memory, and i'm 50 years old, has done what i saw today. he said that white supremacists and nazis are the sail. we have a young woman dead, 20 people injured in charlottesville and this president of the united states has embarrassed all of us regardless of party. >> you're a young sgom i don't mind challenging out a couple points in history. ronald reagan will go down in history pretty well. but he was out there talking about welfare queens all the time. and we know what color they

were. they were african-american. welfare queens. he talked about young bucks, his word, waiting in line to use food stamps for gin. we know that game was played, it was playing race. it was a bugle out of american cavalry and everybody heard those calls. i didn't start with trump in terms of playing the race card. >> no, no, i've been in the republican party a long time. we can talk about the 20, 30, 50 op-eds i've written in this country with the gop, that it has been a party which has gone away from its roots. after the nixon party, you know the filmed parties. >> i can cite it to you line and verse. >> today is a very dark motel for the republican party. >> thank you. great to have you on. we'll be back with trump's angry defiant appearance today. we know that he said saturday is what he believes. he said it again today. both sides are to blame.

morally, whatever about, the violence in charlottesville. plus, he said at the confederate leaders' statues are coming down and tomorrow it will be washington and jefferson. let's talk about that. as trump went on the attack today, you might have missed the reaction from his new chief of staff general john kelly. he was hanging his head in embarrassment, at times grimacing knowing no one can control, not even a general with many stars, donald j. trump. finally, trump watch. i'm so frustrated. i just want to find a used car without getting ripped off. you could start your search at the all-new carfax.com that might help. show me the carfax. now the car you want and the history you need are easy to find. show me used trucks with one owner. pretty cool. [laughs]

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speakers. here's what he told vice in a chilling interview just after the events saturday. the video appeared to show someone striking the video and he saw no way to get away from them except to hit the gas. and sadly our rivals are a bunch of animals other don't pay attention, they couldn't get away from his car and some people got hurt. >> so you think it was justified. >> i think it was more than justified. i think a lot more people will die here before we're done, frankly. >> why? >> because people die every day. >> not a heart attack or violent death? >> people die violent deaths all the time. this is part of the reasons we want an etho state. the blacks are killing each other in staggering numbers across the states. we don't want a part of that anymore. the fact they resist us when we

say we want a homeland is not shocking to me. they want violence and the right is just meeting market demand. >> you saw those pictures and i think you watched them like everybody all weekend. what did you make of what happened when that woman was killed? >> it is my first time seeing that video clip. i'm very concern that had young black men are being radicalized. i think that we really need to take a hard look, chris, what's going on in america that there is this rise of white supremacy, kkk is back with the hoods off. i'm concerned. there's a faction in our country

that feels disaffected, disconnected, disenfranchised and they're angry and violent. and i think we have a serious problem on our hands. >> whose fault is it? >> i think it is a lot of people's fault. it is the culture's fault. if you're looking for the obvious answer, yes, i think the occupant of 1,600 pennsylvania avenue has stoked this up in some subtle ways and some not so subtle ways. today he said who he really is. i don't think there's a question anymore. >> first off, for all the statements that guy wanted to make with people getting out of the way. what about deandre harris? beaten by five people in a tunnel in charlottesville who we interviewed. people were about it on facebook. the president didn't call him. the president isn't concerned about him. we're not talking about bigots, we're not talking about i don't want them in my school or my neighborhood. we're not talking about white

supremacists. we're talking about white nationalists. that's different. these are people say this country is only for christian white people. and we want the removal of all of they will. that's when it becomes problematic. to the degree that anybody in this administration doesn't realize. isis will kill white people, jews, catholics, they will kill anybody they need to kill until they accomplish their goal. >> heidi, you're a straight reporter and you're looking at the scenes. who are the aggressors? >> we're not there for every single skirmish. there may have been instances where the people who they were trying on incite were successfully incited and they charged first. but the goal of this entire episode was to incite. >> i heard that. people were yelling using the n word, going after jewish people, anything to get to the people to cross them. >> can i say something?

>> i want to respond to jason. i don't know la he means by sophia deflates. this sophia has been unequivocal in her language. if you are asking about what i mean by white males being radicalized, that's a national problem. in charlottesville, yes, the white supremacists did it. er please don't put words in my mouth. thank you. >> can i say one more thing? >> can we do away with this economic anxious narrative? they're trying to recruit educated young white males. one of them is the head of the college republicans. these are educated men. >> they're not exactly home grown. they were using the nazi salute, they were using slogans blood and soil. everything from goose zpepg the

torches. everything was nazi germany. we fought nazi germany. why are they claiming loyalty to that? >> without admitting it is just pure race. pure race. it's not american culture or anything like that. >> the most chilling part for me is that they don't wear hoods anymore. >> they're out in the open. >> and they're proud for their faces to be out there. that's the most chilling thing. >> that guy kimes with the reporter. by the way, congratulations to vice. that was real good for transparency. that guy was frighteningly happy. he looked like a happy guy. thank you. >> as always, i know it's been a tough interview for you and you've been great. thank you for coming. on this is tough for republican people to defend. and in fact, to deal with this

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president trump today defended those who gather in the charlottesville to quote, innocently protest, closed quote, the removal of a statue of robert e. lee. >> this week it's robert e. lee. i noticed that stonewall jackson is coming down. i wonder, is it george washington next week and thomas jefferson the week after? george washington was a slave owner. was george washington a slave owner? so will george washington now lose his status? are we going to take down -- excuse me. are we going to take down statues to george washington? how about thomas jefferson? what do you think of thomas jefferson? do you like him? okay, good. are we going to take down the statue? he was a major slave owner. are we going to take down his statue? it's fine. you're changing history, you're changing culture. >> trump also said the removal of the lee statue should be a

local issue. joining us, republican strategist from pittsburgh, what is your reaction to that? removing there pun celebration statues of our ancestors? >> i have no idea what the president is talking about. >> you know what he's talking about. he's saying -- are we going to take washington off our dollar bill? get rid of jefferson off our $2 bill? our first six presidents had slaves. >> i live in the south. as far as i can remember, february, 1865, when general sherman, none of the men the president is talking about, these confederate statues were ever leaders of the united states of america.

the csa, the confederate states of america end in the 1865. i will say this. we know the history of this great country. it is an imperfect union. it had the original sin of not just slavery but disenfranchise of women as well. we have evolved over two drots become what i believe the greatest democratic nation in the history of the world. it is the moral prerogative of the president to build a future. not to try to fight battles from 200 years ago, or 150 years ago. it is the moral responsibility of every leader to bring peace and mercy and bring people together. not try to sow seeds of division and hate. people ask me about the president's tweets all the time of the i block donald trump on twitter well over a year ago. i always gets his tweets

secondhand. people saw the direction this president was going in well over a year ago. many condoned it. it is crystal clear that he has no desire to bring the people of america together. >> what do you make of his argument that there are good people who want to see those statues remain? >> well, i'm an american, i'm in a red, deep red state. sometimes we might be called a blue island in a red state. our people here have a diversity of pinl as to what to do with these monuments and statues. >> what's yours? >> i believe there are some statues in our state capital that i find wholly offensive. some have to do with the civil war, some are post reconstruction, in which there were reigns of terror.

the most offensive wasn't a soldier. it was jay marion simms, considered to be the father of modern obstetrics and gynecology who tortured slave women and children for years as he developed his treatments for gynecology. there's a statue in new york city that should come down. the focus of the president, the focus of our governors, our local leaders and mayors across this country, all to be bringing people together. my city has 90 different languages. we are a microcosm of a society, we are better, greater than the sum total of our parts. and we need a leader who will speak to that. if he can't do that, he ought not to be the president of the united states. >> i'm a big fan. thank you so much. and i think you made the case

better than anybody could have done. i think you're a peace guy, too. and this is a problem for the republican party, isn't it? >> well, first, let me say this. we should put republican and democrat aside right now and stand up as americans with a very loud and clear voice that says, collectively, we're unified and repudiating the kkk and the neo-nazis. that needs to be said -- >> why didn't he say that on saturday? >> personally, i think it should have been. i also marvel at now anybody would put on that press conference today and think that they were going to walk out of there talking about infrastructure without this being addressed. it should have been addressed right up front. words matter so much. your party is not with you. we had speaker boehner a couple years ago. he was asked, why don't you tell the president to stop pushing this birther thing, the president of the united states at that time, is not a foreign here snuck into the country.

he said as follows. i'm not going to tell people what to think. isn't that the goal of leadership, to tell people what to think? why don't they say, trump is wrong. it seems to me, they should be standing and saying, whatever trump thinks personally, we're the party of lincoln and we don't stand for this and nobody is doing it. >> speaker ryan put out a very strong comment. mike pence put out a very strong statement. the president false into this terrible trap of talking about things like monuments and statues. the purpose is clarity of message. and it is disappointing they even put him in that position. a lot of people say he's playing to the base.

that's a very judgmental statement as well about the base. the base is a lot of democrats too. i think it is disappointing that we're not all united. >> you're not happy about it. two people are happy. one is donald trump, the president of the united states. and the other one is david duke. last word to the mayor. mayor, go ahead. >> hopefully a message of hopeful we've been here before. we've been here several times in the history of our country and people of good will have come together to move us forward. i reach out to my friends. come together and repudiate this nonsense and let's walk arm in arm into a future that i believe the united states of america could and should have. >> please come back. i want to thank as always.

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the president went back to his comfort zone. in that moment. let's watch part of today's presser. >> what about -- >> what about the alt molest came charging at the all tt rig? i have no doubt about it. >> if you reported it accurately. >> let's bring in the roundtable today. clarence page, columnist, start

with jeremy, coming back here. i think trump is really happy because he got to be trump in a way that fonloffends the world. >> there are people in the west wing, not exactly the jarrod, wing. the base loves this. >> david duke agreed with them. >> they do, too. he was speaking the right, the

alt left. it is a misinterpretation of the term alt right. and it is this false equivalency that somehow the violent left fringe is just as vicious and hateful as the far right fringe kkk nazi element. >> the liberals, the moderns, the anti-racists, didn't come with battle gear and semi-automatic rifles. they were outgunned literally. >> you can say that's symbolic of our politics lately. the part of base that trump appeals to. they just love to see him sticking it to the media, to the establishment. it doesn't matter what he says. even if he sympathizes with nazis. >> that's why i can't believe these statements. the anonymous white house officials staying president went rogue and this wasn't the plan. general kelly's, the new white

house chief. >> what did they think would happen? surely president trump was privately venting these frustrations before he went out there today. it was very clear, he was raring to go. he wanted to fight with the media. he wanted to get this off his chest. that he was right saturday. >> he looked like best to be sentenced. >> we'll be right back. next, these three tell me something i don't know. just like the people who own them, every business is different. but every one of those businesses will need legal help as they age and grow. whether it be help starting your business, vendor contracts or employment agreements. legalzoom's network of attorneys can help you every step of the way so you can focus on what you do. we'll handle the legal stuff that comes up along the way. legalzoom. legal help is here. ♪ ♪

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tell me something i don't know. >> there's been a lot of talk about the southern statues. the vast majority were constructed during the rise of jim crow. >> so they weren't monuments to the civil war no. they were a part of the rewriting of history. >> i remember. fans of the old mclaughlin group of which you and i are both veterans will be happy to know there's some important news coming up. i can't tell you exactly it is

what but it is not all over for the show. >> if john comes back. it will be unbelievable. i miss him. >> so steve jobs appears for now, you can never say anything with certainty. >> so it is a cliffhanger. there were words like that, my friend steve. >> he said nice things about flynn when he dumped him. thank you. here's to the safety first...

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trump watch 2016. it was one of those moments when you couldn't take your eyes off him. trump the street fighter, trump as trump. it was trump this afternoon. the inner trump that carries the primitive in him, before a nano second, to employ a metaphor, his conscience. they were good people marching.

they were good people concerned with the lost cause of lee and stonewall jackson. really? would you? no matter what your sentiments about all those who fought in the civil war, would you march with people dressed up with swastikas and other nazi insign insignia? all that was missing it was goose stepping. i don't think the re-enactors and those who paid tribute to the soldiers in the 1860s would march with those doing nazi salutes all in homage. i believe it is possible to celebrate courage without endorsing the cause. but there's some behavior in the past weekend that you can't separate. as winston churchill said, anyone who marches with hitler is my enemy. he said something else that you need to repeat before every press conference. i refuse to be impartial between

the fire brigade and the fire. as the leader of our country, there was and is forever to be seen as no time to be impartial. that's "hardball" for now. thank you for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. i think there's blame on both sides. i think there's blame on both sides. >> the president off script and off the rails. >> what about the alt left that came charging as you say at the alt right? do they have any semblance of guilt? >> defending the rally in charlottesville. >> you had many people other than neo-nazis and white nationalists. >> standing up for the rallygoers. >> you had some very bad people in that group. but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> blaming protest theors. >> you had a group on the other