could be lost in many ways nap's where we are at this point right now. >> very poignant way to end it. thank you guys for you time. that's "all in" for this evening. rachel maddow show starts right now. >> good evening. thank you. much appreciated. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. in 1924 the democratic party needed to pick a presidential nominee to run against calvin coolidge. they knew it was going to be hard. coolidge was fairly popular. he had become president when warren harding ki ining keeled died in office. as president coolidge was pretty widely liked, he was overseeing a pretty good economy, running basically as an incumbent to try to hold on to the seat. and the democrats knew that coolidge was going to be hard to beet in 1924. but the democrats head into their convention this year, in the hot summer of 1924 intending

to pick somebody to run against coolidge and they at least felt like they had a couple of good candidates to choose between. this is a time when they choose their nominees at the big meeting of the national par ty. when the democrats converged in the summer of 1924 they knew they had two front runnerrunner a democrat named al smith. governor of new york at the time. and william gibbs mcdue. he was originally from tennessee, ultimately became a senator from california in the woodrow wilson administration. he was secretary of the treasury and he pulled sauf toff the maj of marrying president wilson's daughter while wilson was president and mcdue was serving as the secretary of treasury.

they held the wedding at the white house. it was a big deal. mack ka due is the son-in-law of the former president, a former treasury secretary, a senator, very rich with tie to the west and the south, vase chairman of the democratic party. very very very well connected. and in fact the last time democrats needed to pick a presidential can date four years early in 1920, they very nearly picked domest picked mcdue. they might have done better with him in 1920 than the guy they ultimately picked and lost. al smith had a good shot of getting the nomination but william mack ka due was in good stead to. he had one ace in the hole. a secret weapon. which is that he also had the klan. this was 1924, ku klux klan was

absolutely asen decend ent in t 1920s. the film came out and swept the nation, helping to revilify the klan in the old days. the klan got more wind in their sails when they became one of major powers pushing for prohibition. looking back on prohibition, it seems like u one of the more unlikely things in american history we ever would have decided, to ban alcohol as a country, really, we decided that? but an unsung but important part of why that happened was the klan supporting prohibition. and by the time the democratic party was making this hard choice of who to pick to be their nominee for president in 1924, the klan thought it should have a say. the klan was big enough, confident enough, wide spread enough in terms of their reach

that they thought they should get to make the call for the democratic presidential nominee. and the two front runners were that guy william gibbs mcdue and al smith. and for the klan that was an easy pick was al smith was a catholic. and the klan was as anti-catholic as they were aant met tick and anti-black. the klan went all in for williams gibbs mcdue. and the klan was central to the fight for the presidential nomination that year. an anti-mcdue delegate from alabama of all places put forward a plank for the party platform that year that would have condemned the klan. the fight to approve the anti-klan plank for the party platform absolutely convulsed the convention that summer. they were literally fight in the aisles. they at one point called in a

thousand policemen to break up the brawling on the floor of the convention. ultimately the anti-klan plank and the party platform, it was voted down. it was voted down by one vote. politico.com did a retro report on this a little more than a year ago and resurfaced this headline, anti-klan plank loses by 541 and 3/20ths of a vote to 542 3/20ths of a vote. riotous scenes mark the roll call. bedlam over the klan. second poll is required to settle the question on the klan question. and in the chart there in the third column, it's the list of all of the people at the convention and who voted how on the klan plank. it was that big of a deal. failed by one vote. and when the anti-klan -- so the pro-klan side won, right?

when the anti-klan plank lost by that one vote, 20,000 masked hooded clansmen rallied across the hudson river in new jersey to mark the moment. they didn't think they would be able to rally in new york, not with their robes and mask. they crossed over to new jersey and showed force, 20,000 of them. they had an ef gi of new york governor al smith and they beat it up and tore it apart. but then the convention had to move on to picking its nominee, right? you got to pick the klan candidate, the candidate that was clearly favored by the klan and wouldn't denounce them or say a word against them at a convention that couldn't approve an anti-klan plank or are you going to pick the catholic guy, al submit. if that's the split in your party, how do you bridge that kind of split? for the democratic party that year in 1924 they couldn't bridge it.

they started balloting, they started taking votes on who the delegates wanted to be their nominee and honestly they couldn't get there and they couldn't get there and they couldn't get there. that convention dragged on and on and on in the july heat in madison square garden. that thing went on for 16 days with thousands of people in there and no air conditioning and the fights and the cops and they kept going ballot after ballot after ballot. famously that one ultimately went to 103 ballots. a record. and in the end they couldn't decide. the democrats finally in the end, exhausted, they picked neither of their two candidates. they did not pick william mcdue nor did they pick al smith. they ended up throwing in the towel, picking some other guy named john davis who nobody knew and basically had no con sfich wh constituency. they were spent with their fight over the klan and with the klan

that summer in new york. they ran that guy josh davis, he got trounsed. coolidge won the election, sworn in in march of 1925 and the klan, having flexed its muscles that way in national politics in the lead up to the election, coolidge wasn't their guy. they wanted a democrat in there. but they decided that once coolidge was in there, it was time for them to make another show of political power. and this time they didn't want to make it within one political party, particularly a political party out of power. this time they wanted to flex their muscles on the national stage. this picture is from ag 1925, during the first year of calvin coolidges presidency after the election of 1924. michael beshlash tweeted this out today. those are klan robes, the ku klux klan march in full whithoo

and robes marching in pennsylvania in 1925. then a year later they decided to come back and do it again, this time, even big ir. in the fall of 1926, september of 1926 the ku klux klan held their national conclave in washington, d.c., second time they rallied thousands strong in d.c. in two straight years. when they turned up in 1926 they turned out 50,000 masked robed klansmen who marched in formation in washington, d.c. no matter how many times i've seen these pictures, no matter how many time i've gone through the pictures, i have a hard time believing that that show of klan force in washington, d.c., i still have a hard time believing it's real. but that was real. 1926. 50,000 klansmen march in washington, d.c. the following year in 1927 there

was a klan rally and march in new york city. it started off with a group of fascists, black shirts who clashed with new york city police and then that melee was joined by about, according to news coverage, by about a thousand klansmen who turned out in new york, in queens, to march against the police. the "the new york times" published at the time some of the texts of the handbills that the flyers that the klan was distributing at the time explaining why they were marching, why they were rallying. the headline on the flyer said americans assaulted by roman catholic police of new york city. that was the explanation for why they had to march against the police. so in may of 1927 a thois klansmen and some assorted fascists marched in queens in new york city and ultimately rioted and fought with police. nobody was killed. there was a lot of news coverage of it at the time, which

survives both from the "the new york times," from the brooklyn daily eagle, a few other papers. the police commissioner at the time made a point of telling the public that this was kind of a landmark moment for the klan in new york city. it's not that he didn't know that the klan was active in new york city, it's just that new york city had never before seen a thousand klansmen turn out in the streets in robes and masks like they did in may 1927. according to news reports at the time, there were seven men arrested at that klan march in new york, one of them was fred trump, the father of donald trump. donald trump has previously responded to reporting about this incident by saying it never happened, never happened. never happened. the whole thing is made up. but there is contemporaneous news coverage that both describes and shows pictures of that mass klan march, including klansmen marching in new york

city in hoods and robes and his father's name does show up as one of the arrestees from that march. and the sins of the father are not the sins of the son. for anybody. but that is not a reason to ignore history and pretend that everything that's happening in our lifetimes is happening for the first time. i mean we think of the klan now in terms of its role as a terrorist organization during reconstruction, during jim crowe, during the civil rights eras in the south. we think of the klan and their attendant modern white supremacist groups as a magnet for toothless losers and con artists and small-time violent thugs and some people who are legitimate freaking nuts. but it's not ancient history to recognize that the white supremacist movement in the united states that persists decade after decade their their goal is not to rest on the edge.

their goals and their expectations have always been that they should exert real mainstream political power. that they should get to pick the president. at least they should get to pick who runs. i mean what is unpredictable now is that we don't know what to expect from those groups going forward now that it's a modern president who appears to be picking them. >> when you say the alt-right, define alt-right to me. you define it. go ahead. define it for me. let's go. >> senator mccain defined them as the same groups -- >> excuse me. what about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt-right. do they have any semblance of guilt? not all of those people were

neosenatedies or white supremacists. those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of robert e. lee. excuse me. and you take a look at some of the groups and you see -- and you know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you are not. but many were there to protest the taking down of the statue of robert e. lee. i notice that stonewall jackson is coming down. is i george washington next week and thomas jefferson the week after? you really have to ask yourself where does it stop. but they were there to protest -- excuse me. you take a look at the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of robert e. lee. >> they showed up in charlottesville -- >> excuse me. you had some very bad people in that group. but you also had people that were very fine people on both

sides. you had people in that group -- excuse me. excuse me. i saw the same pictures adds you did. you had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down to them a very very important statue and the renaming of a park from robert e. lee to another name. you had many people in that group other than neo-nazis and white nationalists and the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. >> we're saying that the press treated white nationalists unfairly? >> no. there were people in that rally, if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of robert e. lee. you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest. >> after the president's remarks today praising the white supremacist gathering in charlottesville, virginia this weekend, this became another one

of those days where there was condemnation of the president from democrats and observeobser miemtd condemnation of the president from members of his own political party. it was an interesting thing that happened late this even, early this evening when some white house officials tried to distance themselves from the president's remarks as well, at least one senior official anonymously telling nbc news that members of the president's team, stunned by the president's words today. this one senior white house official telling reporters, telling nbc news that the president went rogue, that there was no expectation among the white house staff that the president was going to make remarks on this subject at all. and as much as some white house official might want us to believe that, it's clear that that account was not true. the associated press caught this high resolution shot of the president folding up notes clearly about the white supremacist rally and sticking them into his suit jacket pocket before he started taking questions on this.

the president was not there to talk about infrastructure. he was obviously intending as well to talk about this matter today. he had prepared to talk about this matter today. white house staff would say that this was completely shocking to them, that he went rogue, he wasn't supposed to touch the subject. those members of the white house staff are covering for themselves and inventing something that happened today that makes them look better that is not actually what happened. and this was a lot of things today. it was not apparently a mistake. it has to stop being treated as a surprise. this was not the president accidentally blirting into something that sounded like sympathy for people with unpopulated political views. this is on purpose. the president building up and trying to center up in american politics a long standing force in white american politics and culture that we have been trained to think of as a fringe thing. but it does have a very long

history and it does have real force. the president is not messing up here. he did not trip and accidentally praise white supremacists and ke neo-nazis who actually killed somebody that week. he is building up something that was a long standing force for political power and terror in this country for generations and he is now doing what he can to help them come back. and partisan affiliations come and gone, right? the party having the huge fight over the klan in 1924 was the party of the civil rights act. parties change, party affiliations change, ideological ie laneses come and go, candidates come and go to the point that we can't remember the names of most presidential candidates not too long down the road in history. whether you voted for trump or not, wh you have a partisan affiliation or not, whether your

own family has ever lived through the terror that is this violent racist element of american culture, this persistent violent racist almost in american poculture is a real thing that we've lived through before as a country. and it waxes and waynes but it has never really gone away. and now the president, working overtly as president is doing what he can to bring it back and build it up. and so far honestly it's working. head's up. this is not a mistake. he is not screwing this up. ♪

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when someone asserts that the holocaust never took place, then i don't believe that person ever deserves one iota of public trust. and when someone has so recently endorsed naziism, it is inconceivable that such a person can legitimately aspire to leadership in a leadership role in a free society. >> president george h.w. bush speak in 1981. he was weighing in on what was then the louisiana governor's race between democrat edwin edwards and a republican named david duke, the former grand whatever of the ku klux klan. david duke and edwin edwards were running neck in neck in that race. but the sitting president of the united states threw his weight

against david duke as the candidate of his own party, disowned him, denounced him, duke ended up losing that race in a landslide. and that's one way to do it. today we saw a very different approach. joining us now is presidential historian. i'm really glad you could be here. >> me too, rachel. >> as a historian, what was your reaction? how did you absorb these comments today from president trump and how important do you think they are given his past history on the subject in. >> i was completely horrified and i think it's a departure from what almost every other president of the united states has done. because, most presidents understand that, you know, it's not in the contusiostitution. the president has a job -- number one, this is a country that's hard to pull together. and every president has the job of trying to unify this country. from the day of his inauguration

when donald trump gave that divisive speech, he's gone the opposite way. today he went -- you know, that was exponentially increased. and the other thing is that most presidents feel, as franklin roosevelt once said, that the presidency is a place, he said, of moral leadership. roosevelt wasn't perfect himself but every president tries. what we saw today with donald trump was someone saying i want to give political power to these ugly hate groups. i don't care about the job of moral leadership. it came out of an ugly part of his soul. and i think i would say to all americans that we've got a problem because we've got a president who sent a big message today to hate groups, i'm going to make it easier for you. and he also sent a message which may be, you know, i am the oversere ove overseer of the justice department and the fbi. i may make it easy are for you in terms of what i ask my executive branch to do. >> i opened the show tonight with a little bit of a

discussion about the klan and what the klan used to be in this country. i was very struck by the tweet that you made showing the klan marching in formation. >> not by accident, as you noted. >> in washington, d.c. and the reason that i wanted to focus on that, the reason i'm so glad you put that out there, i feel like part of what people are contending with right now is trying to figure out if the president is playing with actual fire. if he's emboldening people that are are actually dangerous and conceivably could be moved to the in american politics or if they're now so inherently fringe that he's -- this is a throwaway thing, he's causing offense, he likes causing offense, it gets attention but he's ultimately not going to do much harm. >> we have to assume that these hate groups are dangerous. and what went seen all the way back to the 1920s as you said was a president licensing this by omission or comission. sending a message that was so

strong that david duke, whom you mentioned, tweeted today thank you for your honesty, president trump. he liked what trump said. >> michael learnbesh loesz. thank you for the help you give us here and thanks for being here tonight. >> thank you, rachel. be well. we've got much more tonight including one of the leaders of the congressional black caucus is here tonight. plus a real live republican. stay with us. i mean wish i had time to take care of my portfolio, but.. well, what are you doing tomorrow -10am?

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you know how people always say, oh, to be a fly on the wall. here's a meeting where i'm not sure i would have wanted to be a fly on the wall. because in this case i'm not sure my little fly art could have taken the tension. do flies have heart attacks? on march the 2nd, members of the congressional black caucus went and took a meeting at the white house with president trump. it took two months for the president to agree to meet with them. but once the members of the black caucus were there, he invited in the cameras and he said to them for the camera's benefit, quote, this means more to me than anyone would understand or know. mainstream politicians, elected officials are frankly reeling today after the president's comments on white nationalism. but imagine what it must must be like to be in the leadership of the congressional black caucus

today, trying not just how to decide how to handle this presidency on any given day on a day to day basis but how to deal with this today from this president. being an elected official is hard work. this is almost unimaginable in terms of what this challenge must be like. we're joined now by a member of the congressional black caucus, part of the leadership there. congresswoman congress bass. i really appreciate you being here. >> thanks for inviting me. >> let me ask your top line reaction, where you were when you heard the president's remarks today and what you thought. >> i was watching it on tv. but i have to thank you because you -- you know, prior to listening to your coverage right now, i did think that he had just come unhinged. but the fact that you laid out that this was actually deliberate is insightful and it's left me with a thought. you know, all of the things that he's done with russia, the corruption, et cetera, while all of that noise is happening, you

know, the real danger is in his administration and some of the policies. take one department, the department of justice. that actually have very clear racial implications. and what he did today was essentially give license to the racists to keep up their protests. i mean he gets a high five from david duke right after. so maybe part of what he's doing is his response to the united front resistance that has taken place all across this country. i mean even the demonstrations that happened over the weekend, many of the demonstrators were white, which i think is wonderful because it shows that racism is not just an issue that impacts people of color, it impacts our country as a whole. so it was pretty devastating to hear him essentially give approval to nazis and to the klan. but maybe we need to understand that this is now a new strategy

to essentially give a green light to the alt-right to go ahead and organize. and you have my full blessing a and the blessing of the department of justice to do that. i think that's the message from today. >> the green light where you just described as essentially him giving them license, i think the thing that i'm trying to wrap my head around is what they can do with that license, as you described it from the president, that they wouldn't otherwise do. that they couldn't otherwise do. how does that enable them, empower them, 'em bolden them, make them stronger. i don't know what to expect -- i mean i've been watching the american right for a long time as a student of history and over the course of my lifetime. and i've seen lots of different types of racists organizing and nazi skin head organizing up close and personal. i've grown up with it. the thing i don't know how to anticipate is what happens when a president gives that license,

when the president says yes. how that changes the movement. do you have any sense of what's coming down the pike mehere? >> you know he start thd voter suppression commission which is what i call it, it has nothing to do with protecting the right or expanding the right to vote. you have a voter suppression commission. you have elections coming up. and when you have communities that organize against these policies, the next time there's a police shooting, for example, black lives matter goes out. i think the license that he's giving is you go ahead and you attack these demonstrators and you know what? you're not going to be prosecuted. we're not going to come after you. when i heard that the department of justice was going to do an investigation into the demonstration, boy uld bnt shocked for one minute if they came back and proposed charges against both sides because they equated it. and so i think that as we are organizing to resist this administration, we need to keep

a very careful watch on movements now that come from the right and whether or not they're going to get increasingly violent. that's the license i think he gave today, which was go right ahead, go at it. >> congresswoman karen bass, member of the leadership of the congressional black caucus, represents california in the house of representatives. nice to have you here tonight. thank you for your time. >> thank you for your work. all right. a member of another republican white house joins us in just a moment and you will definitely want to hear what he has to say. he has been quite remarkable in his response to the president today. that's next. stay with us.

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[dog barks] ♪safelite repair, safelite replace.♪ if you are a person who goes on tv specifically to appear on the fox news channel, your on air on fox musing about the president very rarely coming sounding like this. >> when he really lost me is where he was objecting saying there were fine people in that protest in charlottesville. they were chanting things like jews will not replace us. >> it's honestly crazy for me to have a comment about this right now because i'm still in the phase of where i'm wondering if it was real life. it was one of the biggest messes i've ever seen. i can't believe it happened. those are all bad people period. and the fact that that's controversial, i don't know if i should laugh.

i have too much eye makeup on to start crying right now. it's disgusting. >> i don't usually play highlight reels from cable news shows but that shows you little of the sense of how not normal today was. if that's what is happening on the fox news channel, you can guess how strong the criticism was from the democratic leadership in congress. this caught my eye, chris murphy made this statement this afternoon, just stopped on roadside to read president's remarks. i nearly through up. my god. that was kind of the flavor from the democratic side today. speaker of the house paul ryan did not call out the president by name in his statement today but said this, we must be clear white supremacy is repulsive. this bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. there can be no moral ambiguity.

jerry moran from kansas said this, no one, especially the president of the united states, should ever tolerate white supremacy, bigotry and racism. stronger. the republican leader in the senate mitch mcconnell has so far not said anything. steve schmitt worked in the burge w. bush administration, steve is not shy in general. he was particularly no shy to the president's remarks today. as soon as the president finished speaking steve posted this, quote, a completely unhinged performance by the most powerful man in the world. quote that performance will send shivers down the line of every allied leader. everyone sees the unfitness. joining us one steve schmitt. thank you for being ehere tonight. >> good to see you. >> you have been critical and

outspoken about this president a number of occasions in the past. reading your response today, i want to know if you see this as kind of a marginal advance in what you see as offensive behavior by the president or do you see this as something qualitatively different, a big leap? zbli would say qualitatively different. the moral obtusiity on display t that disgraceful news conference today are bone chilling. this is a moment in the history of the republican party. the statement by the speaker of the house are not sufficient to the moment. there can be no equivocation here. the moral failure is complete. it's almost irredeemable. the republican leaders have to condemn the president for this false e give kwags directly by name. they have to center him or they risk sliding into a moral abyss with him. hospital mystically i think

people of good faith in this country, whether they be liberal democrats or conservative republicans, i think the righteous anger of the american people over this incident, and watching in 2017 nazis, young men largely, many of them looking privileged, venerating the most evil regime and the most evil leader in the history of humanity that unleashed a level of human misery and suffering that in the words of general eisenhower upon seeing his first concentration camp described the images as beggaring the imagination. as we approach the end of a human lifetime for the last of the survivors of the people who were in those concentration camps, and the last of the men who stormed the beaches in normandy to crush nazi tyranny, what a disgrace. what a disgrace today.

>> steve, what you're describe in terms of this being a seminole moment, a turning point for the republican party. can i ask you, when you talk to republicans, you spent a lifetime in republican politics. are these conversations happening behind closed doors? are they happening privately and it's just elected republicans feel like for the most part they can't speak their mind or are republicans who you know generally conflicted and don't know how much they should still support this president despite concerns they may have? >> most politicians have a finely tuned instinct for self preservation and truthfully most issues that we debate about whether they be the size of spending bills or the rate of taction reduction probably aren't worth lose yourg political career over. rarely does an issue of such moral clarity come along. so republicans who privately shiver, who say that he's unfit, who say he's erratic, who are deeply disturbed by the

rhetoric, who thinks that he lacks all of the qualities of character necessary to be command near chief are deeply worried about his capacities for judgment in the face of a nuclear crisis that we saw for example with north korea last week. what this issue does is force a moral reckoning. the republican party, the party of abraham lincoln, a party ththat has done much good and despite the southern strategy and the whistles and the dog whistles that have played out by too many republican campaigns over the last 40 years, this is something different. this requires a clear une give cabal repudiation of the president's moral failure. we can't book this as a country. you have neo-nazis marching doing violence, doing murder in broad daylight in an historic college town on a beautiful saturday afternoon. a torchlight parade reminiscent

of the as -- let's be clear. when we look at richard spencer, we should stop using the alt-right label. it needs to be repudiated by every single republican elected official by name. >> steve schmitt, always great to have you here. i craved your clarity today watching other people try to struggle to respond to this. >> thank you, rachel. still ahead, something totally different. stay with us. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps.

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about a decade ago the largest bank in kazakhstan was called btn bank. of that bank took off, fled the country and went to london. the government in kazakhstan international investigators discovered after he was gone that half of all of the loan book for that bank between $w8 l billion and $12 billion in loans had been made to entities controlled to that bank chairman. must be nice, right? you run the bank, make loans to yourself then flee the country. when he fled to london it became clear they weren't even loans at all. bank chairman was keeping all that money for himself, not planning on paying any of it back np. in england he lived well. in a 15,000 foot mansion, a hundred-acre estate in the countryside. when the british court sentenced him to prison for what he had

done the chairman got smart and flet that country too. went to france. in france he was ultimately arrested the following year at a villa on the french riviera by police who had disguised themselves as gardeners on the villa's grounds. i want too read that book. that ex bank chairman is now fighting extradition. that's bta bank. the largest bank in kazakhstan. half its loans going to the bank chairman's pockets in all the shell companies he controls. now here follow this money. because in 2005, that same bank, bta bank, agreed to loan several hundred million dollars to the nearby country of georgia to redevelopment a crumbling town that didn't much seem like it was ever going to house a luxurious estate. here is the funny thing, all of the hundreds of millions from bta bank went to a bunch of different subsidiaries.

one company that had never done any real estate deals. not in any dilapidated resort town or any town. no experience whatsoever. but this completely unqualified company took all of these hundreds of millions dof dollar and split it up between sub s subsidiaries. the money traveles it a company in georgia which further distributes the money to a bunch of even smaller companies. that are very untraceable.distrh of even smaller companies. that are very untraceable.in ge distributes the money to a bunch of even smaller companies. that are very untraceable. fast forward to 2012. donald trump licenses his name to brand this seaside resort development in georgia. the one that got all the loans. that would be the trump tower ba tomby, i guess. a big publicity for the deal. g's presiden georgia's presiden

use of his name, got paid a million dollars. no one appears to have asked where all of the money was coming from or why donald trump's new partner in this real estate deal had been able to secure all this money from bank that was literally all over the news at the time for being involved in this spectacular lurid fraud with its chairman republicaning off with half the bank's lone book, and living it up in london and being arrested by cops slash gardeners own on the riviera. trump tower bathume never got built. not clear if it was intended to be built. right after trump signed the licensing deal his new business partner and the company that got the money from the bank, they bought the tower. they paid $12 million to a company own ed by a company, owned bay. ca by a company, owned by them self. for this big real estate development, in the city of bthume, company that partnered

with donald trump was buying part f property from itself. which is a good way it move $12 million around just for that part of it. if you are able to keep your eye on the money in this three card monty, what you are seeing is tex book red flags for money-laundering. a bank engaged in massive fraud loans money to a company in another country which disperses that money among its subsidiaries then moving money back and forth between themselves in real estate deals that make no sense. money laundering is complex on purpose. that's the whole point of how you lose track of the money. when you involve overseas real estate deals, it becomes what hallmark and maybe it doesn't matter if anything gets built. but donald trump did make his million dollars. this is a news stories told by adam davidson. a remarkable piece of reporting.

adam makes two other points briefly noted about this story. first after the bta bank chairman fled account untry, the kazzic government took country of the bake bank. the government has all of that banks files and transactions and archives and they know everything about the deal. the kazzic government does. they collect dossiers on every transaction in that country and are known to share everything we've got with russian intelligence. bta bank is currently controlled bit son-in-law of the kazakhstan's dictator, the son-in-law is on the board of the russian state gas company which is vladimir putin's pet energy company. whatever willful blindness on the trump organization there might be on the deals, the russian government probably has that. if they ever wanted to blackmail someone because of their dubious financial dealings, this might be a candidate. second thing to know about the story is what donald trump's

lawyer told adam davidson when adam contacted him for the story. jay told davidson on the record that if special council robert mueller started looking into the deal, the specific bathume deal, that might cause the white house to warn bob mueller's office it is exceeding its mandate and if the special council persisted into looking into the deal the president'ses so associates, rod rosenstein, and threatening that if this investigated by mueller the president's lawyers might see that as cause to fire special counsel. makes you wonder why they are so worried about this particular deal. joining us is adam davidson. adam, thank you for being here. >> thank one rachel. >> i wanted to have you here yesterday to talk about this but the president keeps talking about nazis so it's been awkward. >> it is important to talk about too. >> yeah.

. let me ask you, first of all, if i got anything wrong in describing this. you have written about a lot of complex deals in writing about the president. in this case it seems very clear that bank he was dealing with be with money he was dealing with, was provusly problematic. >> yeah. what the president's folks say is they did not know that bta bank had any involvement until i told them a few weeks ago. that that was the first they learned of it even though it was a fairly easy thing to find out for example using google. >> and at the time the deal was happening, bta bank was huge, as you said, huge, new jersey news story. i found that, just very, very confusing that they would say that. now, every involved said we can't say for sure, bta money went t.o. directly to trump but what we can say is bta's primary partner in dwa were the people who gave the money to trump.tdw who gave the money to trump.hdwe

who gave the money to trump.atd people who gave the money to trump. were the people who gave the money to trump. they were part of the scheme. they said they were never found guilty but others would say they were never found guilty because the kazzics agreed to a settlement and agreed to drop all criminal charges. >> is part of the add van tack in kazakhstan, georgia aej other places, that laws there aren't necessarily going to ever catch you toing this. what is it as an american company? >> it is against american law for an american company to facilitate money larnding tied to bank fraud in another country. if that's what happened here, that's against the u.s. law. if there is foreign officials and an american company was part of that scream that would be against the foreign practices corruption act. there is enormous risk in legal terms but it is very unlikely ever to be discovered.

that is why i think they are. they are helping, spending months and months and months into this paperwork. no one would have done that to just a developer. >> right and the russian government if they do have access to this information because there may be clear violations of u.s. law implicated here if all this bears out that could be a source of what they call, a way to pressure donald trump because they have these records. they have this information. >> the russians and kazzics have a long history of amaziamassing dossiers of so many people, to use it for blackmail for political purpose possess. and what experts told me, even if they had no thought of being american president, they would have known everything about this

deal. they would have it all. and they would find ways to communicate to him or his staff that they know bad thing about him. >> good even to keep really really really good files. you never no who will end up being president of the large western country. adam davidson, reporter for the new yorker. piece is called no questions asked. we are posting a link to adam's article at maddowblog.com. if you haven't tread yet, you should. thank pup see you again tomorrow. now time for last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening. >> good evening, rachel. boy am i glad i've never done business in russia. doesn't that all sound obvious when you hear it that of course it would work that way. >> well and the fact -- the thing i have learned from adam davidson's reporting at the new yorker is you don't have to be perfect but you do have to look to see if you are really