and go kumbaya, it's not all about forgiveness. i know that's not a popular trend, but the truth is we have differences and we'll be angry with each each other. let's not channel that into hate or violence or fear, but let's channel that difference, that anger, into righteous action. and that's how you're going to make my child's death worthwhile. i'd rather have my child, but by golly if i have to give her up, we're going to make it count. hi, everyone. it's 4:00. it turns out that there is a group of individuals who have a red line when it comes to donald trump and his toxic rhetoric on race. by taking steps to disband two of their own advisory councils according to reporting from "the new york times," america's business leaders made clear that they are not willing to simply

issue an outrage tweet and then return to shared priorities like tax reform. unlike republicans in congress, or any members of the president's cabinet or senior staff, corporate america has said enough. their move a direct response to donald trump's bluster filled performance yesterday at trump tower in which he drew an equivalence between white supremacists and those there to protest them. the president responding this afternoon via twitter, quote, rather than putting pressure on the business people of the manufacturing council and strategy and policy forum, i'm ending them both. thank you all. the defections began monday and accelerated throughout the morning today. "the wall street journal" writing of the defections quote, their decision to quit now and in such public fashion shows the growing political and cultural pressure that ceos and others in public life are under to distance themselves from mr. trump. we are joined by our reporters covering all the developments. hallie jackson, with the president in new jersey.

kimberly atkins, chief washington correspondent at the "boston herald." and a cofounder of axios. hallie, talk to me about this. it looked like he was about to get dumped but he said i'm breaking up with you. >> that's right. of political strategies from trump, i think he and his team saw the writing on the wall. they see the ceos already dropping out, rumblings that had been reported earlier in the day that in fact this council, a couple of the councils were considering disbanding altogether and decided i'm going to make it so i look like i'm coming out and being strong and decisive about it which is why the president tweeted he was disbanding the things. let me get into the pieces of the puzzle here, nicolle. from a policy perspective, from sort of a -- what the president wants to don the economy perspective, this is a big deal. he has always talked most about how he is the jobs president. the president who will fight for the american worker, the president who will bring back

the economy, it's the top talking point he mentions at nearly every public appearance. he's talked about leveraging the private sector to help make government run more smoothly. this is an example of him being unable to do that because of what he said, as you noted in the show open there over the last three to four days since the violence in charlottesville. the other part of this is how it will play from the political or optics perspective if you will. remember what he's done over the last 24 hours when first ceos started to drop out, ken frazier, for example. he said -- he said the leaders aren't getting it done, they should be embarrassed because they're sending jobs overseas. essentially turning the arguments that it's on the companies saying they weren't helping you to begin with. if the companies were not being helpful to the american worker to begin with, why were they advising the president on his advisory councils? bottom line it's a moot point now because the councils no

longer exist. >> kimberly, let me ask you if this is another chapter in the jilted president story. i mean, the rage he displays against the media day in and day out is because he viewed them as sort of a group that he used to be able to manipulate either by playing his own spokesperson or by courting favor with the new york city tabloids when he was -- i guess a quasi local tv celebrity. but now they cover him as real journalists would cover any president and businesses that i think he often viewed as being in his corner i think he branded himself to the voters as one of them, they have now dumped him. can you play this string forward and who he'll predict engaging them forward. he can't lose the american businesses when his plank is putting everybody to work. >> you're absolutely right. there's a part of the president's base who actually love when -- loves it when he

rails against the media. so when he does that he's sort of feeding meat to the tigers, right? but when it comes to these business leaders, president trump built himself up as the ceo president and so now all of these corporate ceos are walking away from him. not just walking away, but issuing very public statements condemning his words yesterday during that press conference and really making this a moral issue. so it's hard for him to push back against them. i mean he tried when he treated earlier -- he tweeted earlier for every ceo who walks away i have many to take their place, these ceos called his bluff and he lost that battle. >> jim, i wonder if you think general kelly and jared and ivanka have put him on double secret probation and put up

twitter and see a pretty measured response from a major rebuke from america's business leaders. >> trump is trump. he's not going to change. this isn't steve bannon. this isn't the alt-right. this is donald trump. he made the decision to respond to what happened in charlottesville. he carried out the decision on how to respond to what happened in charlottesville. and everybody who works for him knows it. they knew the bargain they were making when working for trump. i'm surprised by how surprised some people are by the last couple of days. if you have watched this presidency going back a year prepresidency it's one of the most predictable periods in politics ever. we knew there would be racial tension at some point, we knew he would defiantly stand up against condemnation when people lashed out against him and we knew his base would stand by him. and we knew that a lot of people who supported him would rationalize it. what's different and why today is an awful day for the presidency, an awful day, is

that he did have those business leaders who he needs. he's about to do tax reform. he's about to ask them to spend money, to spend political capital. spend time to go get tax reform time done and now he has a massive public rebuke in a way we have not seen at any point in the trump reign. no way for them to spin it. i think it gets worse. these ceos are under so much pressure internally at home, in their own household. you have the exact same thing playing out with staff. i don't think anyone resigns today. io will see a coup -- you will see a couple of people leave and they have had it. that's going to hurt the presidency because he has some talented people who are reluctantly working for him, who try to do the right thing. once you take them out it's just trump. >> yeah. hallie, can you pick up this thread? i talked to folks overnight and today who said of course we're going to have a national conversation about race because

donald trump ripped open the wounds and poured salt in them, but this is more akin to what jim is talking about, his reaction to the khan family. when he takes these radioactive stupid fights and he wages them until he's practically been bludgeoned to death and then says, well, my people like the fight. this source also told me that, you know, when he gets on the hill and it's the wrong hill no one can talk him down from it. and that those are the kinds of conversations going on in the white house. >> exactly. so the question is, that is also i think happening inside the west wing based on some conversations i have had today is if he's on that hill to use your analogy, how do you get him to make the argument that might be effective if you know he's not going to come down off that hill? to just belabor the analogy for a moment. i say that, because i think what you saw from the president over the last 18 hours or so was an attempt -- you and i talked about this this morning. an attempt to relitigate or explain from what folks are telling me from what he said on

saturday. he felt like people didn't understand the point he was trying to make and that he was right in the point he was trying to make. he came out on monday and this is kind of the explanation if you will, sort of the pulling back of the curtain that he was trying to attempt to do according to these folks and based on this reporting. the challenge is though, i have talked to some people today who said that there were other arguments that the president could have made, other things he could have pointed to in his own career and life, and show he wants a broader conversation about race and, you know, he's done a lot in their view to support the african-american community, for example in his business and other ways. >> those were not the kinds of arguments that he made. i know you have lots of demands on your time. so thank you for spending a little bit of time for us. everyone else is staying with us. i to bring in -- i want to bring in the panel. joining us is stephanie ruhle, pulitzer prize winning

columnist, and public policy and with us from washington, robert traynham, a former bush/cheney senior adviser. steph, since this news broke i have been dying to get your take on it. i have seen you throughout the day, but talk about this breakup. >> first of all, president trump's tweet today that he dismantled the council is a lie. we'll walk through the time line. he made the comments on saturday, the ceos were furious about it. by monday they had settled down because he restated, he warmed it up a little. they didn't like it, but they said. but last night they said enough is enough. not because they're calling him a nazi or a sympathizer, but they have companies to run. they don't want to deal with this nonsense. by last night, eight or nine had reached out to steve schwartz, they said we're out. 12 of them were on the call

today, they decided collectively we're going to dismantle this. at that point, they went back to their companies, they told their employees. he then reached out to the white house i believe jared kushner which is when the president starts the tweet -- >> i'm going to dump you first. >> which is nonsense. this is difficult for jared because it's jared kushner, chris what dell and roy cordish who pushed for the initiative. if you're jamie dimon, tax cuts, this can help your company to the tune of billions and they're walking away. >> do you think there's any question in any of the ceos' minds that he'll be punitive? of course he will. >> they thought that several months ago but at this point they look at him more and i don't want to use the word impotent, but they're like giddy-up, what are you going to do? >> i spoke to a source at walmart who said it's a different calculation for because a lot of our workforce and customers support president

trump. but wall martz -- >> this isn't about supporting walmart. >> but to your point, they had to make difficult calculations so doug mcmillon said as we watch the response of president trump over the weekend we felt he missed a critical opportunity to bring the country together by objecting the white supremacists and the remarks on monday were a step in the right direction. as we pull the thread on what he did yesterday, the damage that he did, it's so stunning to me that you go back to the occupy wall street era. we have corporate america leading the way in rebuking the president of the united states on a question of race. where are the republicans? where's the -- >> good leadership and capitalism to the way that unilever is the leader. they have to walk a fine line, but this isn't about politics but about humanity. and larry summers made a brilliant point.

if the walmart ceo can make a statement like that but doesn't leave the council that makes no sense. if you're the biggest private employer in the country, you should have access to everyone in government that you want. but if you need to be on the council to get that kind of access, are we living in a banana republic? >> are we, gene? >> some days i think we are, and there's one guy responsible for that. mine, it's all trump. it is all him. let's get back to the earlier point. why are we surprised at this, given what we have seen? go back further. given what we have seen over his career really. the voice of birtherism. the man who led what amounted to a sort of -- almost lynch mob media campaign against the central park 5. remember that? five young men, then young -- four african-americans, one

latino, they were later exonerated by dna of a rape. and donald trump said no, they're still guilty. he crusaded on this issue. there are -- there have been to my knowledge no african-americans or latinos in key positions of authority in the trump organization. now i could be wrong on that. but i kind of tried to look at the roster. it's not a very big organization. i think they would stick out and we haven't seen them. so, you know, what's surprising us? >> he said of that -- he settled that housing lawsuit. it's a no fault settlement, but you don't pay millions of dollars for nothing. >> jim, since we came back to your point, let me ask you to weigh in again on this idea that there's a pattern, not just on race, but on the president's temperament which is to me as big of a story as all that was revealed about his impulses and instincts on race. that he's just so temperamentally unsuited for the leadership aspects of the job.

>> yeah. i mean, i have gotten a lot of e-mails saying that the media is too harsh on president trump and i'm critical of the media. but in this case it's not. what i would tell anybody who's watching, it might not be in the constitution but we have a social compact that's gone through a continuum of presidents that you have an obligation to remove that stain of slavery. to everything you can that when there are moments of tension which are inevitable there's going tension, when they happen you have an obligation to try to heal those wounds. if you do anything to exasperate it, you're punishing the country. you're basically exasperating a sin, and that's where -- he has this moment to lead. he can't. this idea that kelly is going to control him or jared is going to control him, nobody will control donald trump. he's the same guy as he was one year ago. and now he's a man on an island. he's got his 35% of his base who are with him no matter what he does, whether it's saying

something nasty about grabbing women if their private parts, but he's losing everyone. he's lost business. on capitol hill none of those republicans like him, he has very few friends up there. now for first time you're seeing a couple of republicans come out and rebuke him. at some point they'll have the courage to actually put their name to it and say, listen, president trump, you -- >> until then we'll read about it in axios. >> you read about it, but it's the members of congress who say like racism is bad, but not saying it's the president who's doing it. they have to stand up. >> i agree with you. stephanie, let me give you the last word and a source said to me it's the mythology that he created. he basically ran a mom and pop shop, he was a tv star. >> 100%. the trump organization was never an institutional climate to any u.s. investment bank. he was not part of the business movers and shakers -- >> those were his peers. >> those were not his peers but

to the viewers at home who watch the apprentice, he seemed like that. but the question i asked you, did we not appreciate reince priebus? maybe reince was better at his job than we realized. >> maybe they misdiagnosed the problem. >> we thought kelly would tighten it up. >> thank you for spending time with us. tainted by trump, a staff now tainted by donald trump's galling comments yesterday in charlottesville is described as appalled, furious, stunned, disheartened. will any of that outrage be followed by resignations? and is president trump egging them on? there's a response to news that they liked what they heard from the president yesterday. and is he breaking the back of the republican party with those divisive comments on race and his refusal to get presidential? you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him.

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i think there's blame on both sides and i have no doubt about it and you don't have any doubt about it either. and -- and if you reported it accurately, you would see. >> just a small part of yesterday's press conference heard around the world. apparently unplanned and unsanctioned by trump's team of aides. aides appeared to be jumping at the chance to get their story on the record and place blame for trump's remarks on him alone. one top staffer texted politico yesterday, quote, my head is spinning. axios was told that gary cohn

was somewhere between appalled and furious and stunned an disheartened staffers told "the new york times" they never expected to hear such a voluble articulation of opinions that the president had expressed in private. that's what staffers were willing to say when the cameras were off and their identities are anonymous, but the talking points distributed to those on the hill told a different story. quote, say the president was entirely correct both sides of the violence in charlottesville acted inappropriately and bears some responsibility. yesterday, we asked on this show if any west wing staffers would resign. now, 24 hours later, no resignations but lots of explanations for why they stay, delivered off the record or on background in whispered conversations. jim, you were someone that i whispered sometimes on background and off the record in the white house you covered and the white house in which i worked. but never anything about the president. i can't imagine calling you and

saying that i was galled or disheartened or furious for the president at going off script and for painting us with the broad ugly paint of racial insensitivity at best and outright emboldening and embracing the pirations -- aspirations of white supremacists at worst. >> i can't imagine we'd see a white house like this. but you have the group of people who are rationalizing their work to donald trump and i feel sympathetic to them. listen, if we're not giving good advice or putting up some guardrails lord knows what he'll do when there's a real crisis and we have seen what he'll do in crisis. the problem that these people have, the reason they're so tortured, taking so much crap at home for working for him on the one hand and, two, he continues to do things they can't control. take general kelly. one of the strongest people you can possibly put in the job. somebody i think trump probably fears. he does have this a fear of

alpha male generals he's in there. he's a law and order guy. he's putting in discipline, he's doing everything he can. you can't tame trump. nobody can tame trump so i don't think anyone leaves today. i do know of several people that are likely to leave soon because they have had -- they had it before this. they just don't feel like they can make a difference. and the pressure is too intense, given they're not getting much on the outcome side. i think it's bad for the country. i think our government needs talent. our government needs sane leadership and if you just have a president going rogue without a talented staff during difficult times that's bad for the country. we haven't faced a massive global crisis, we will. we're vastly understaffed and we're not equipped to deal with it. >> robert traynham, how do you feel about the firing/resignations of reince priebus and sean spicer in light of the fact that after they were effectively purged from the white house for being

ineffective, the president has stepped in the deepest pile of his doo-doo in his presidency. >> i'm sure sean and reince are high fiving and saying that's not my problem anymore. i'm sure they're probably upset because -- i haven't spoken to sean in a while, but maybe if i was there i could have done something differently. >> is that as foolish as dating the guy that cheats on every girl and then when he's finally your boyfriend you're like i'll be the one that changes him? are they all -- are they all engaged in the fool's errand? are they involved in the fool's errand thinking they can change donald trump? >> yes. yes. here's why i think that. look, the conversations i have been having over the last year and half and quite frankly i was a part of the conversations oh my goodness, you know what, if gets the nomination he'll become serious. oh, my goodness if in fact he wins the presidency, the weight of the presidency will make him much more serious. oh, my goodness, you know, he's a manhattan liberal. he wants to be loved. he wants -- he'll work with democrats and republicans.

he has no political baggage so he's going to bring everyone together. every single rationale conversation that me and fellow republicans were having obviously had fallen on deaf ears and everyone's right. the president is an unhinged person and no one can control him, but there are some rationale people in the west wing who say, for the love of god if not me, who? i'm trying to save the presidency here. so good for them for at least trying but look it's one of the things that they're just shifting deck chairs here on the titanic. >> philip, let me bring you in. i want to ask you this question because this is -- i think jim and robert have articulated the defense. well, you know, if they're national security staff, they say well, you have no idea what i'm dealing with. you know, if you saw what i saw on fill in the blank, isis, north korea, afghanistan, you know i'm serving my country. fair enough. and thin you talk to the

economic policy people that say that donald trump, you know, doesn't know a tax reform from a -- you know, a hamburger order. i'm here because he couldn't reform the tax code, you know, with a magic wand. then you talk to, you know, other people on the staff that say, well, general kelly's job is just to reign in steve bannon. he's not in charge of donald trump and twitter. whose job is it to take care of the president? what bucket does the president fall under? >> well, i mean it's a great question. i think the assumption has been for months now that that bucket belongs to his children, to ivanka and to his son-in-law jared kushner. >> that's interesting, when children take care of their parents it's because something is going on. what's going on? >> the reason i say that, this is someone who everyone knows no one else has control over. he values the loyalty and friendships to the extent that people are loyal to him. that's why bannon was there in first place and why right now

things are shaky with bannon because donald trump has sort of fallen out of love with him. >> can i pause on bannon. what cares what bannon does. donald trump revealed his instincts on race. and -- >> i want to jump in on that. i think that steve bannon is the one person that president trump is legitimately afraid of and can be. he's shifted the media ecosystem and he comes at a vengeance with whoever he dislikes. look at the disinformation campaign going on against hr mcmaster and right now, the harvard berkman center released a report, a comprehensive look at the media landscape. it has shifted so that the polls used to be sort of left and right and now they're center left and far right. the center right is gone. the center right media is dead basically to america. breitbart had taken over. and if that man is spurned he will come after trump and

although he calls himself a nationalist he's an alt-right nationalist. he uses the word kuk all the time and he's got a vengeance, and he's signaling. if trump lets go of bannon it's game on like we have never seen. >> let me ask you the question that i have been harassing philip about here. who's in charge of donald trump? >> well, donald trump is in charge of donald trump. that's no question there. nobody can reign him in. i don't like this idea that he went rogue. he can't go rogue. he's at the top. he's the president. he sets the policy and the tone. he sets it all. so people can try as they might. but at the same time, republicans that i have spoken to today to a person really don't want resignations from the white house. they really want these people to stay even if they are not effective at reining him in. they want somebody who knows what they're doing somewhere in the white house, a voice of

reason that can have the president's ear in time to time. there's a real concern outside of the white house about who will replace these people if they leave. they want gary cohn in there, they want hr mcmaster in there. and they want john kelly to remain in the positions that they're in. and they have been imploring them and letting them know that, so that will factor into whether you see people depart. an issue with bannon, a point on bannon is that he's not only someone to fear if he is cut loose. but his job in there is to remind the president who voted for him. and that's very important to donald trump as much as he may slap at him publicly a little bit when he's not happy with him. steve bannon is there to remind donald trump about his base and that's very important to him. so i don't think -- i don't think he'll be going out the door any time soon. >> let me give you a quick last word on bannon because i feel like it can break at axios at any moment. do you have any reporting on bannon? >> listen, the president is very worried that if steve bannon left that he would -- not

necessarily come after him. because i don't think that he would, but what he'd do is create bannon media, bannon tv. there's a huge segment of the republican party that loves the america first action. if you talk to bannon he'd be very loud and proud of what he thinks about immigration and thinking about this country being first, the muslim ban. if he's out there it would be hugely problematic for donald trump and donald trump is kind of a comfort blanket for him. comfort food. he might get sick of him and put him in the doghouse but he's one guy he can talk to who shares his mischievous ways. that's why he thinks about getting rid of him, but doesn't. >> all right. thank you so much for spending some time with us. still ahead, shock and awe. that's the best way to describe the current state of the gop. members take to twitter to express their outrage but never seem to have a follow-up move. does anything change when the president is pouring salt in some of our country's most tender wounds?

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gene, we came back on the air with a picture of newly minted white house chief of staff general kelly. how do you think he's doing? >> well, look, you have a sense of what his old job was like, right? every secretary of homeland security i ever met has lived in the constant pressure of threats coming in here and there. and they're always -- that must seem like just a walk in the park compared to what he has stepped into at the white house. i mean, you know, he's got an undoable job basically. he's got a job and people he can bring order to the -- to staffing. he can institute a system of access and paper flow and all that. in the end, it doesn't mean anything because, you know, donald trump is the president

and donald trump is who he is and he's going to operate the way he's always operated. and he's 71 years old, he's not going to change. so there's going to be chaos and he's going to do things like he did yesterday and just go completely, you know, off the ranch. and make a statement -- just take back any sort of progress he made the day before. and it's a constant cycle. >> talk about the cycle because you and i covered donald trump's attacks on the khan family together. we sat shoulder and shoulder and covered the attacks on judge curiel and every time we saw it, we said you don't attack a gold star family and he survived. you don't attack a judge, an american born judge for his heritage. this feels like another one in those kind of attacks. toxic -- >> yeah. he digs in. he gets defiant. he goes i think to his instincts

which are nativist and angry in a lot of ways. i think that's a lot of what's really inside of him, and it continues out in ways that are obviously in terms of our system totally inappropriate if not appalling. yet, he thinks it's fine because his 35% base is going to stick with him. and doesn't mind. and he doesn't suffer from it. right? now, this time -- >> is that true though? >> you know, the ceos left. that's a concrete thing. i mean, they just said, later for you. we can't sit next to you if this is what -- we didn't sign up for this, right? and that's really the first time we have seen that sort of mass statement in concrete. >> coming from ceos. but this is what's so stun. sorry, go ahead. >> yeah, coming from ceos, but half of the country has spoken out about donald trump. one of the reasons we're seeing ceos saying oh, my gosh, ceos is

because half the country is gone -- >> yeah. 67% of the country, right. >> i think that the thing that's fascinating to watch at this white house and with kelly and with others there is take sean spicer. he and i butt heads a lot of times but he had a line, that line was cross and he quit that day. and the points are taken you don't abandon trump to do what he wants to do. i think part of the challenge with what happened yesterday was we saw from donald trump a specific moral and ethical line that's different from the hiring of scaramucci. this is a particular thing a line that's crossed -- >> racism. >> racism. we don't -- >> it's crossed all the time. i won't annotate. i'll let you finish. >> but my point is if that's not a line that people think is too far and they're going to stay in the white house -- at what point are you becoming complicit? >> people cross the racial line all the time, but they do it in quick darts. so you for example, candidates like clinton who's a democrat.

bill with the sister soulja speech. people tag the little race thing. trump went from, you know, dog whistle to full on frontal but i think that we in the media have to do some housekeeping because during the election particularly in television there was a lot of wall-to-wall coverage of donald trump without enough analysis of his speeches. and when -- >> don't look at me and gene. we sat here -- >> we sure did. go go ahead. >> america is a country where a lot of people have latent racial believes that can be activated and so there's a researcher at princeton named pavel hanes that some people value neutral statements like make america great again and that can incite the xenophobia. we have to look at the speeches we ran during the campaign. >> we know we came up short. when we come back, the reporter

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jews will not replace us! jews will not replace us! blood and soil. blood and soil. whose streets? our streets. >> that was the chilling rallying cry of the white nationalists who gathered just days ago in the streets of charlottesville. ellie reeve of vice news tonight had up close and personal access to the group. as the clashes in charlottesville unfolded. the doc is incredible. i want to show you one more clip from it though because i want to ask you about this gentleman on the other side. >> i think that a lot of people are going to die before we're dying here. i carry a pistol before i go to the gym all the time.

i'm trying to make myself more capable of violence. i'm trying to talk in the hopes that somebody more capable will come along and do that. somebody like donald trump who does not give his daughter to a jew. >> so donald trump, but more racist? >> a lot more racist than donald trump. i don't think you can feel about race the way i do and watch that kushner bastard walk around with that beautiful girl. >> i loved your question, donald trump, but more racist? but i'm terrified by the answer. i wonder what you heard and what else you heard about what they like about donald trump and if you were back in touch with any of them after his response to the violence yesterday and over the weekend? >> yes, one alt-right organizer said god bless this man, he truly has our backs. they took it as a statement of support for them. they're pleasantly surprised by the things that the president says about them. >> and do -- i mean, he talked

about going to the gym and being ready to create more violence, to act violently to anyone that stands in his way. do you have any sense that donald trump's words -- i mean, they're obviously already bold so i don't want to assign emboldenment to donald trump, but can you talk about what the effects his words will have on their plans for the future weeks and months. >> yes, i have talked to them a little bit about their plans. they want to avoid pr disasters like killing a person. but they also want to focus on aesthetics. that means getting rid of swastikas because they call that a dead ideology. they want to cut out as they call it white trash. they want to look like a whittle class move -- like a middle class movement with clean white men and that people will join them. >> do they show any remorse for the death of a counterprotester? >> some people i talked to did.

the man i interviewed on camera though did not. he said this was justified. something that took my breath away. i wasn't prepared for him to say that, i thought he'd make excuses or something. you can hear me stumbling in the interview. i had no idea he was going to say something like that. >> the most chilling thing about the interview for me is that they all show their faces. i mean, when you look at investigative journalism, they cover their faces. if you look back at the neo-nazi movements in europe and here, they protect their identities or interview someone from al qaeda they cover their face. in america, neo-nazis and white supremacists talk to you on camera. can you talk about that experience and how open they are? >> they feel emboldened by the last year of political events. but they also have the internet. that means they can fund raise from their supporters.

there's a site called researcher that can raise money for an alt-right cause about $100,000 overnight. they don't have to worried about getting fired for their vile believes. >> you used the word alt-right. they seem intent on rebranding. is alt-right, is that all part of their branding? any distinction between the alt-right and white supremacy? >> only in tactics and the audience they're looking for. they are not burning crosses. they are using social media. they're using jokes and memes. they want to portray themselves as witty, as intellectuals and appealing to those that you wouldn't associate with the racist movements of the past. >> i encourage everyone to watch the whole thing and thank you for spending some time with us, stay safe. we'll talk to you soon. we'll get our panels' reaction on the other side of the break.

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when someone has so recently endorsed naziism it is inconceivable that such a person can legitimately aspire to leadership in a leadership role in a free society. >> and our country must abandon all the habits of racism, because we cannot carry the message of freedom and the baggage of bigotry at the same

time. >> former prsz bush 41 and 43 there didn't smins words when it came to denouncing racism when they were in office. even today outside the white house grounds father and son had no problem releasing this statement. america must always reject racial bigotry and antisemiticism and hatred in all forms. as we pray for charlottesville we're reminded of the fundamental truths recorded by that city's most prominent citizen in the declaration of independence. we are all greeted equal and endowed by our create or with unaleable rights. we know these troourts to be everlasting because we have seen the decency and greatness of our country. joining me now, john mee chum. i wonder playing bush clips on msnbc to prove a point about how good the old days were ties my brain in a knot. but i wonder if you can talk a little bit about the damage being done to the republican

party that in my view may be irreparable. >> we've talked about this before. the republican party what happened in the primaries last year is one of the few recorded indicates of where a hijacker got on a plane and the passenger sided with the hijacker. and i think that's still going on with trump and the party. you know, the bushes, president reagan, senator dole, senator mccain, governor romney all represent a different kind of republican. and i think that it's interesting, you're right, the sudden sent mentality for folks whom a lot of people on the left had great disdain for many years is striking. but it is one sign of how far trump has moved the goalposts of a civilized society. >> someone who knows donald trump today said that in the two decades that he and his family have known him they've never seen him carry a book or talk about history or read anything. and i know during the campaign, no one on the campaign staff could get him to read anything.

i sent over a wreeding list once. i suggested the looming tower, road to da mass cass, the lynn lad ens. what are the dangers of -- >> probably all for the best. >> he wouldn't have read them any way of being governed by someone with no knowledge of american or world history? >> well, it's fundamentally dangerous because history is not a gps. you know this. you've been inside. you can't just type into policy computer and say, all right, how did fdr win world war ii and here are the three ways -- therefore, we're going to beat isis. history is not like that, but it is a diagnose nosic guide. it gives you a sense of what symptoms recur, what situations recur and what habits of mind and of heart have mattered for leaders. great leaders and the bushes are among them in this, are like john kennedy. they learn from their mistakes. they're able to look at their own history and not only the

history of the country. we would not have had the success arguably of the cuban missile crisis, the successful resolution of that in 1962 if kennedy had not failed in april of 61 with the bay of pigs and learned the lessons. you have to have an ability to look within, admit that when you are wrong, which is the hardest thing to do in human life. i hate doing it. i suspect you do too. somebody gets to be president and it's really hard. bt the great ones are able to do it and so his disdain for history is both limiting and in fact he's unilaterally disarming in terms of knowing what to do in policy, but he's also in many ways a kind of curbed person himself in that he can't learn from his own mistakes. >> can you quickly, i know this is a bad one to short solicit, but how do we go from our first african-american president to the president who created the birther movement? >> henry adams said that

washington from -- disproved dar win. i think we're in the midst of that. i think there's a connection. in moments of great economic cultural stress, movements like the neo nazi movement, movements like the klan have fresh energy. that's part of what's going on right now. people who feel alienated, they feel the global economy is not rewarding them, they feel they are falling behind. they need to blame someone, and so they blame immigrants. they blame african americans, they blame barak obama. >> thanks so much. it's a treat having you join us. we'll be right back. ♪ and suddenly make it all seem worthwhile? ♪ ♪ well it's you girl, and you should know it. ♪ with each glance and every little movement you show it. ♪ you're gonna make it after all. ♪ it takes a long time to get to the top... you're gonna make it after all. ♪ but with america's best you're gonna make it after all. ♪ bumper-to-bumper limited you're gonna make it after all. ♪ warranty, the all-new volkswagen tiguan

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he's still president. he is not fit to be president, but he is still president. and how does this get better and how does it not get worse? and that's kind of, i think, on all of us maybe, on all the people around him, but mostly on him. >> wise final words. my thanks to you. that does it for our hour. i'm nicole wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. >> hi, nicole. thanks fork making me swallow a little bit harder, gene, with that final comment. true words for sure. if it's wednesday, the republican party has a choice to make. tonight, the search for moral authority. after the president's two sides conflagration, will republicans continue to allow the president to define their party? >> i stand with the president, and i stand by t