not every story is breaking news. some differences are about principle. it may be traumatic on confront a president violating our founding principle of equality but it is a trauma well worth tackling. the alternatives, accepting hate or living a national lie. those alternatives are unacceptable. thank you for watching. "hardball" starts now. unamerican. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let's talk nazis. we have a president of the united states talking about marching with nazi. and we have a movie, dunkirk, about fighting the nazis in world war ii they were closing

in on the units were executing the british soldiers who fought to the last round of ammunition to protect our fellow troops. those ss troops were the sail monsters that exterminated 6 million jews. we have a president now saluting the fine people descended in charlottesville last weekend torch lights amidst swastikas and nazi salutes. he is now on record and he hasn't taken a word of it back. >> you had people that were very fine people. on both sides. there were people in that rally. i looked the night before. if you look, there were people protesting very quietly. taking down the statue of robert e. lee. you had a lot of people that were there innocently -- >> what he doesn't understand is that a fine person wouldn't walk

along nazi shouts. fine people do not clues the engage in a torch light parade that echos the rallies held by the third reich in nuremberg. today we're seeing the outcry and indig nation over the president's comments. as the editorial board described it, tuesday was a great day for david duke and racists everywhere. the president of the united states all but declared he has their backs. the cover of the new york daily news reads, sympathy for the devils. trump defends very fine people at nazi ral yiflt even the usually pro trump new york post knocked president's own words saying they weren't all nazis. well, the sun labeled them first unamerican president saying there's no rectifying this with an apology or another state of he is clearly too cowardly to fight group that's americans will not tolerate. neo-nazis, the kkk and other white supremacists among they

will. that alone has made him the first unamerican president because this nation stands for fighting those hate groups. not coddling them. joining me, the director of the las vegas sun who had that editorial, steve schmidt, u.s. congressman karen bass, a democrat from california, and congressman leonard lance, a republican from new jersey. thank you all for joining. i want to go right now to mr. anderson. tell me, coming up in an editorial labelling the president of the united states unamerican. >> this was a pretty uncomplicated issue for us. americans have been fighting this for 70 years. there's nothing easier in america than saying no to this ideology. you have to wonder about somebody who is hedging on it. >> what do you think the president meant when he said fine people. fine people in the ranks amidst those swastikas, the nazi saluters and the nazi slogans.

what they were slinging out there. >> i am mystified. i think that for a person who, during campaign speeches, was often dropping names of world war ii generals, you know, it makes no sense to me. you have to think about this from the standpoint of, what if you're a holocaust survivor? what if you lost a family member in world war ii? one of the 400,000 plus servicemen and women who died fighting nazi ideology. what if you were one of the soldiers yourself. i'm just mystified by it. >> let me go to you. he is with in spirit, what he calls the fine people among ranks of the nazis. >> right, exactly. i think of my father who sing turning over in his grey right now who -- he is turning over in his grave. i am way more concerned about his policy that's are consistent

with that. if you think about his attack on affirmative action, rolling back -- >> wait a minute, wait a minute. are you saying opposition to affirmative action which is a statute in some cases, you're saying that's the sail as going along with people who are nazis? >> no. the racism that he displayed yesterday in his press conference, he has policy that's are consistent with that. that's what i am saying. so it is one thing to be upset about his words but i am far more concerned about the direction of his administration and the policies that he's putting forward. voter suppression, the commission that he has, essentially him saying that it is okay to be brutal to police. he is sending a signal to the white supremacists that it is to know attack demonstrators. he's been squint that. >> i think you disagree with that, steve.

i think we can argue about affirmative action where it is appropriate and where it's not. we can't argue about naziism. it is a principled question, not a political one. >> i think this is most important point in politics in my lifetime. an extraordinary moment. nazi i, this evil jeel, the most evil in all of humanity, killed 60 million people in europe. nearly annihilated the jews of europe. 400,000 americans died fighting it. the young men who were marching under torch light channelling those anti-semitic slogans, they convenient rate adolf hitler, they convenient rate the evil regime. and it requires not just a condemnation of naziism and white supremacy and extremism, but political leaders are

required to reprimand donald trump for legitimizing they will. these groups are celebrating tonight. they think they've been convenient rated by the president of the united states. that they've been given a license to operate. >> have they? objectively speaking -- the president given his blessing to them? >> yes, yes. he has inspired them. let's look at what they say and let's take what they say seriously. let's not try to interpret it. let's take it at face value in the english language. they are thrilled beyond words. so this issue for republican leaders in particular is an existential one. the public party cannot exist in a coalition with extremist groups, whether they're alt right, neo-nazis, ku klux klan. there's no place for this in

american politics. and the lack of republican leaders who are coming out and calling out the false equivalency is chilling. >> let me to go congressman lance. i remember trump rather or i hadly once said he could shoot someone on fifth avenue and his people would still be with him. it seems like he's getting close to that standard. he can say anything. whether what he said to billy bush on that bus or what he says now about naziism. a whole exponential difference about treatment of women. here he's saluting the people. marching i know what swastikas and some of them using the nazi salute and he's defending them in spirit. is this equivalent to shooting someone on fifth avenue? how far can you go with this guy? >> i was very critical yesterday in my tweet and there should be no place in america for

neo-nazis or anti-semites or white supremacists or members of the kmpkk. >> a leaked talking point memo suppose the white house is officially doubling down on the president's position. catch this. this is what they're told. the president was entirely correct, says the talking points. both sides of the violence in charlotte vilt acted inappropriately and bear some responsibility. politico reports, the president felt news conference went. better than his statement on monday. so he's happy with who he is now. and according the vice news, the president has yet to call the mayor of charlottesville. it seems like the president is happy with who he was yesterday. not happy when he was reading the lines written for him on monday. >> yeah. i can't explain. that it's another mystifying

element. i don't understand why there was any need to come back from the statement on monday which was strong, you know. you can argue that it was kind of woodenly delivered. i think it said the things that needed to be said and i don't understand except for maybe something having a bit of a lag of self-control and self-discipline, why you would come off that state. >> did he, didn't he? he broke out of that straight jacket. some republicans were ready to direct president about the participant in that rally. let's watch here. >> think about what you have seen as one. reporters said. reminiscent of what we saw in germany in the 1930s. the president has to totally condemn this. >> if you're showing up to a klan rally, you're probably a racist or a bigot. and saying that, saying anything, the images i saw were skin heads and neo-nazis beating up women and trying to poke

people with flag poles. >> very sensitive for me. i'm from virginia. as someone of the jewish faith. then when you go in and say there's blame on both sides, no. there's not equivalent blame. >> others issued very pointed rebukes twitter. mitt romney corrected the president saying, no, not the sail of one side is racist, bigoted, nazi. the other opposes racism and bigotry. morally different universes. steve said i don't know what is so hard about this. white supremacists and neo-nazis are even and shouldn't be defended. and lindsey graham said your words are dividing the nation. however,le including speaker paul ryan and mitch mcconnell took more muted approach and did not ad monday tish president

directly. he didn't say anything about trump. and speaker ryan said, we must be clear. white supremacy is repulsive. the bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. there can be no moral hambiguit. they're playing chicken. we're not arguing about nazis. we settled that years ago bust about the president's inability to separate himself from the spirit of what went on in charlottesville. it seems your republican colleagues have a real problem with saying, you're off base, mr. president. i can't stand with you on this one. >> well, i think that's absolutely right. i think they need on call him by name. but i think when we get back in session, that it is time for action. they need to act. they need to definitely push him on a number of various policies. and they should not shy away

from it at all. it looks very cowardly. >> yeah. let me to go congressman lance on that. do you expect anybody to come forward and going after the president? he was supposed to have an agenda this week. he was supposed to be doing things like tax reform. everybody agrees we can do something on tax reform. almost everybody i know on this planet believes in infrastructure. and yet he booted it and started talking about the nazis. >> i think we will have a very busy september. >> you'll have to. >> we can pass aappropriations bills and deal with the debt crisis, the debt ceiling. this will be a challenging and i hope productive time in september. when we get back. maybe we should pass new voting rights act. i think that would be a good thing to do. it would show we're working in a bipartisan capacity.

i said mr. president, i used his title, and i'm not afraid to criticize the president where i think he's wrong. but let's look in a bipartisan way, i'll willing to work my colleague, congresswoman bass. >> i hope you spend some time encouraging people to vote and not going after voters. anyway, trump also announce that had he is he expanding the two advisory councils. the president made the announcement in a tweet saying rather than putting pressure on the business people of the manufacturing council and strategy and policy forum, i am ending both. you're the political professional. he's basically amputated his relationship with the business community because he can't get them to go i know what what opened the social question, the values question about what happened in charlottesville. this is a real problem. if you believed in trumpism, if

not in trump, you believed there was a chance for the base, to do infrastructure. that seems to be something he's ready to get rid of. >> the business community has amputated trumpism. if you look at the policy issues, most of them. if they were to be interested. the reason that they got out of the council is because of the moral dimensions of the issue and the business community is far ahead of the political leadership. and of course, the political leadership has not reconciled itself to what their obligation fundamentally. is it is the duty of each generation to bear witness to the magnitude of nazi crimes.

which is were it is so important that this false equivalency be rejected for the generations who don't understand what naziism was because they haven't read history books or they didn't know grand parents who fought it. they must know through our testimony of what the magnitude of these crimes were. and the most horrible period of human suffering in the history of the world. so this is such a moral failure on the part of leaders in the house. and they should not be approaching this as an issue calculating about the mid-term. they should be dealing with this through prism of its effect on the fabric of america naziism is not just an affront to all of our american ideals and all the values of human dignity. it is an affront to the face of god. i would say to paul ryan in the words of john paul ii, be not afraid. do not be afraid. do the right thing here.

this is important for the institution of the republican party. this is moment in your career where you have been called to make a moral leadership decision. >> thank you so much. well said. thank you all. coming up, reaction from inside the white house. steve bannon is reportedly thrilled with what trump said yesterday. will any members resign? there are some people very sensitive about this nazi stuff. very sensitive and they don't like it one bit. plus, trump blames the so-called alt left. tonight, a closer look at those groups for who zmextremism expe. and when will enough be enough? that's our question of the night. it has been asked before in the trump era but this may well mark

a turning point. finally, let me finish tonight with trump watch. it's a doozy. this is "hardball." david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ so find a venus smooth that contours to curves, the smoother the skin, the more comfortable you are in it. flexes for comfort, and has a disposable made for you. skin smoothing venus razors. heri think i might burst..... totally immersed weekenders. whatever kind of weekender you are, there's a hilton for you.

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yesterday's combative and astounding time with reporters was pure unadultated donald trump. like a tiger freed from its cage, he lashed out at both sides for the violence in charlottesville. his aides who were present, look at this poor guy, stunned. most notable, there he is, general john kelly who was caught on yam hcamera with his down. public officials refused to address the comments. >> we're talking about infrastructure today. >> nazis. >> i'm talking about infrastructure. >> as sect chow said, we're here to take questions on infrastructure. >> privately, according to

politico, it left his aides started. and one was particularly displeased. today there is a distinctive feeling of a white house on edge. it deeply upset jewish members of president trump's administration remained largely silent. here's the vp. >> what happened in charlottesville was a tragedy. and the president has been clear on this tragedy and so have i. i spoke at length about this heart breaking situation on sunday night. in colombia. and i stand with the president and i stand by those words. >> inguess he has to. nobody has quit. for more, i'm joined by the

politica political reporter. you're good students of this president. we all try to be. i wonder about jewish people, i don't want to narrow anyone down. but they have to go back to their families and explain they work for this guy, their clubs, the people they spend their lives with. they have to explain why they stay loyal to a guy who a problem condemning naziism and people who like the consort with nazis. >> it is the question on many trump administration officials myself reporting backs up what you said. that mr. cohen is deeply frustrated with the president's remarks. also, frustrated that his initiatives on tax reform and infrastructure really weren't the focus of tuesday's event at trump tower. i think a lot of them are facing choices right now. they have seen internally for months a president who follows his own cues, who is very

aggressive when it comes to these events and these kinds of controversies. so they've seen it up close. and they have on all decide now, do they stick with it? >> you know, i always tell young people, one of the pieces of advice i say, first, bring your values with you. you won't get they will here. number two, pick your boss. he picks you but make sure you fick right one. because it was once said, i'll always be known as the guy who worked for joe mccarthy. if you work for trump now, especially if you're jewish, or anyone with a conscience, you have to go, wait a minute? i can work for that guy the way he snauks. >> i think there's a calculation going on with people had now work for trump. i think you can see the effect already on trump having, the president having difficulty hiring new people. look at the communications director. >> who is knocking on the door? >> as an interim. that's clearly not her

particular wheel house. they've been unable to find a credible person to take that job. and i think the experience yesterday will make it harder to hire good people for all kinds of presidential appointments. >> what do you think trump is going through? he probably knows, he looked happy. and i know this sounds bizarre and even sickest looked unhappy monday when he was reading the script. the morally correct script. yesterday, lashing out at the press, he seemed happy. >> i've asked my sources about that and they say, one, he liked being at nome trump tower. he was going to be more unbridled because of that, and also, he was never comfortable with the state he was given as revised sframt mondayest wanted to say more. he's been digesting cable news. it's unsuppliesing rprise toggl

comfort dante that's he lashed out. >> i know people who can go to the white house, even if you have a big job at the white house, a friend of mine said, do you have any new friends? you can't really trust people when you get into the white house. especially as a president. everybody is sucking up to you. but trump is in a different world. people aren't sucking up. is trump able to recruit? to network and find people to fill all the positions in the government given the atmosphere? >> the short answer is no. in fact, he is become more of an isolated figure. you see corporate america moving away from his business councils. you see the republican party ratcheting up its rhetoric. he is turning on his inner circle. making her the communications adviser. he has an inner circle and a circle of friends on the phone but not many others. >> i've noticed when political

movements atrophy, when it is just the clique, they're dying. >> i think that he is less distressed by the criticism he's getting from republican office holders and more distressed by the flight of republican ceos. who won't even serve on an advisory capacity. >> well, steve young is lucky he dismantled them. >> you can't quit. i fired you. that's the approach. that he's a business guy who can bring in other ceos and we can get things done for the u.s. economy. now these corporate executives are not even willing to sit down with him. >> when labor was ready for a republican to come along and build, build, build. even in the key stone pipeline. build, rebuild penn station.

rebuild l.a.x. airport. all across the country, to put people to work in good hard jobs, high paying jobs. and now they have quit his council. the laebor guys. an stounling loss of what could have been a bright side of this administration. >> there was certainly an appetite among labor leaders to work they will. among wall street types to work this administration on tax reform. when i was talking to trump advisers today, they described an almost crippled atmosphere because of the injection of racism and talk of white nationalism and naziism into the political conversation. that draws almost to one to your political center. >> i blame it on sabotage. but the guy who committed the act was the guy at the top. up next, president trump argues that bothvised to blame. the so-called alt left bears

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prevagen. the name to remember. i think there's blame on both sides. and i have no doubt about it and you don't have any doubt about it either. and if you reported it accurately, you would say that.

>> that was president trump doubling down on his claim that both sides, that's his phrase, are to blame for t. the counterprotesters were equally to blame and he is talking about the alt left escalating the violence. >> what about the aumolt alt le that came charging? do they have any semblance of guilt? >> are you putting what you're call the alt white and white supremacists on the same moral plane? >> you had a group on one side and a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and it was a horrible thing to watch. there was a group on one side. you've just called them the left. that came violently attacking the other group. >> inthe term alt left, the

president created a moral equivalence. they were self-professed anti-fascists on saturday. some reportedly wielding clubs as the president noted. it was an alleged nazi admirer who is accused of killing one woman and injuring 19 others. >> i welcome my guests. educate us. >> when we're talking with the crowd, do they only go after fascists or do they go after anybody in the economic community they don't like? >> no. they are simple principled anti-fascis anti-fascists. what they see happening in the trump administration and in this country, they see the neo

fascism that we see. and they've taken a principled stand. i would like to point out that at charlottesville, they protected peaceful protesters. i don't know had a president trump was talking about. >> who are waving the clubs on that side? >> they were protecting themselves. >> there was one group jumping in and punching the nazi types. i've seen a lot of pictures like you and i've seen people reaching in and slugging they will. who were those people? >> they may have been part of it. it is not a nonviolent group. the law center promotes nonviolent protests. i do want to point pout there's no moral equivalency between white supremacists, white nationalists. >> i'm with you. >> i remember in grad school, i

first heard to someone refer to a fascist as anyone working in the administration at the time. anyone working in the government. any business person who was a fascist. >> they're very serious about it. do they mean he mussolini people is this anybody they don't like? >> i believe they're referring to anti-democracy. >> i thought they were opposed to globalization as well. >> i couldn't say. i'm not an expert. >> let me go, anti-fascist is a great word. is that what they mean? >> yes. i'm going to diverge here. i want to you explain who they are.

what is their method? their cause? antifa. >> there is no moral equivalency and the cause is standing up to the bigotry and fascism that they see from white nationalists and they're somewhat diverse. as someone who had his life at risk and protected a klansman, i can tell that you there is an offshoot that is violent and should be condemned. however, when we see these protests, most of the counter protests aren't peaceful. most of the antiffa people are peaceful. however, to be sure, there's a sliver that is violent and looking to bash heads and they should be condemned. there is no moral equivalency between nazis and nationalists and the protesters which clause sliver of violent people. >> let me say, they would not be

there if it weren't for the white supremacists. >> so antifa doesn't engage in occupy type behavior against business leaders. >> they were in charlottesville to stand against -- >> no. another example. >> that's not what we're talking about. >> i want to know who they are. >> how does information work into a false narrative? >> we gave you information with who they are and what they believe in. >> here's -- >> point of view. nazis are not equivalent to anyone else in terms of cause. they support racism and all the rest. is there a difference in their methods? >> sure. le of them are people of good will who are outraged at what they're seeing with the division

in our society. and the racial hatred in our society. i also faced some of these folks who are armed with wooden planks and metal rods and were going to murder somebody. i'm going to tell you something. the fault of this starts with candidate trump who lit a fire and is now complaining the bushes at his house got singed. so there's no moral equivalency with regard to nazis. this is an extremism and what's shaping these folks do not see them part of a democratic type of initiative. and they have to be separate from the more peaceful counterprotesters. >> comment what you just heard. >> i would like to keep the conversation to charlottesville. that i know they came to stand

it's against white supremacists. i heard they protected. i heard that from reverend blackman that they frequented clergy. some of they will did. >> i don't want the conversation to be antifa. >> i'll to ask the questions. that's the way the show works. >> i want to learn. i think we have to find out who are the violent people. of course, the nazis are the worst in terms of values and purpose. if this other group, they'll find trouble too. >> you're absolutely right. they do use violent tactics. they do. they do. >> thank you so much. we're going to find truth.

>> white supremacists look for these battles. they firestorm it. i don't want to condemn a whole broad range of people which are primarily peaceful. but i will tell you that these antifa people, we do have to look at the violent fringe and say this is not what it is about. and there is a thread in the social political movement that says, violent resistance is the way to go. and here in california, we had two dozen instances of violent public demonstrations, and in many of them, antifa was involved. that being said, there's a broad set of folks, many of whom are in fact peaceful. but we had an act of terrorism here. why rbaren't we talking about that? people armed with clubs is one thing. but isis and white national extremist who's represent the biggest streelist threat to the united states, it should be noted that this is a big deal.

>> we have shown that picture over and over again of that terrible person ramming the car and driving it backwards to kill people. that i know and you're right. >> we live in an era -- >> we do. we want to learn all the players. thank you. you're great. alicia, please come back again. >> thank you. up next, when the "access hollywood" tape turned up, many thought the republicans would turn against donald trump en mas masse. what about this time? so you miss the big city? i don't miss much... definitely not the traffic. excuse me, doctor... the genomic data came in. thank you. you can do that kind of analysis? yeah, watson. i can quickly analyze millions of clinical and scientific reports to help you tailor treatment options for the patient's genomic profile. you can do that? even way out here? yes. even way out here.

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welcome back. many republican leaders have come out against trump's position including paul ryan and mitch mcconnell have denounced white nationalist groups without criticizing the president, or even naming him.

let's bring in the roundtable. howard fineman, alicia from reuters. president trump has always been confident that his base will not abandon him no matter what he does. no matter what he does. remember this big line. >> could i stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't looss any voters. okay? it's incredible. >> is this the test? is that what he's talking about? is this where people say, if you're still with him, you're never going to lose him. >> i think what he said was stupid. >> he should have -- he had a good statement on monday. he should have left it alone. >> he said he needed information. he had all the information on tuesday and said what he thought. >> we now know what is on the

president's mind. the bad news is what is on his mind. i think that the republican establishment by and large has said, this is wrong. if you were in the middle of where the republican base is, he still has a popularity of 79%. for trump, you know, he has a lot of cards to play and a lot of capital with republicans. >> will that base stick with him with this neo-nazi element? >> i think so. and i think donald trump definitely thinks so. his whole theory of politics is not about attempt. it is divide and focus. that's how he won in the electoral college. >> but he had hillary. >> he has other female run against. guess who?

us. >> the media. republican leaders. anybody. when he went down to the lobby of his tower yesterday, his goal was to troll the press. to inflame the national press corps. far from being outraged by the coverage that he got yesterday, he was delighted by the coverage. >> the world is miserable but he seals to be wallowing in it. he feels like he got his statement out. he wasn't happy about being told you have to say this. he felt lying he was justified in what he said earlier. >> was anybody around him saying you're kissing goodbye to a full presidential term in. >> i'll sure there are people who are trying rein him in. i think that people cannot be happy in the white house about having to deal with this when they wanted to deal with infrastructure, tax reform, all

the other things. the roundtable is sticking with us. this is "hardball" where the action is. you always pay your insurance on time. tap one little bumper and up go your rates. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance.

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back ground or his religion.cci of the president with the children. bloop

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with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. . he's being attacked from the right in his own state. kentucky. the governor of the state who is a tea party guy is no fan of mitch mcconnell. >> okay. >> so the trump administration has called on a program that they got from the obama administration that allowed central american minors to come to the u.s. legally and leaving 2,700 minors basically on the hook. they were waiting for approval. so their immigration strategy is going ahead. >> those are the people that face physical threat at home.

>> the house ways and means chairman gave a speech at the reagan desk where he signed the 1986 tax reform bill. tax reform is not dead. >> well, i like that' 86 bill. thank you. when we return, let me finish with trump watch. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah.

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trump watch. politics if you take it seriously is about principle, not career. those who run for office have a duty to honor their core beliefs. well, opposition to naziism is one such belief. those who march with hitler are our foes. how do we account for the silence from republicans. they were ready to criticize the neo-nazis but not toward criticize trump's defense of those he called the fine people who marched with they will. by our count, only a hasn'tful of 52 have even named trump. in their comments since yesterday. only a handful. less than one in ten have stood up. one could say a disgusting defense of so read lent of

nuremberg. if you can't stand up for core american beliefs, if you can't walk away from naziism, why do you have feet? that's "hardball" for now. thank you for being with us. "all in" starts right now. not all of those people were nazis. >> no regrets from the president. >> pathetic, isn't it? >> as confederate monuments come down, the white house defense goes up. >> i stand with the president. >> and ceos run away en masse. >> his spirited defense of racism and bigotry. that's an unamerican value. >> tonight, inside the halls of power and inside his own party. who is standing by trump and why? >> we're talking about infrastructure today. >> nazis. >>