where a terror investigation is under way after a van rammed into the crowd of pedestrians in las ramblas, a popular tourist district. at least 12 people are dead. as many as 80 are injured and spanish police have at least one in custody. let's get to kelly cobiella who has been tracking this story all day long. kelly, what's the latest? >> well, nicolle, first police have now confirmed that they have a second man in custody. they haven't given us any more details surrounding the circumstances of that arrest. where he was arrested. how he was detained but they do say that a second suspect is now in custody. the first suspect arrested probably a couple of hours ago now and there's been some video circulating on social media purporting to show that arrest. man in a t-shirt being taken into police vehicle in handcuffs and now this report of the second man in custody.

in addition to this, we are now hearing from three senior u.s. law enforcement officials briefed on the investigation that spanish police are circulating the photo of a third person, a third suspect in this. he's been identified by spanish authorities as -- oukabir. his picture has been thrown to europe and the united states but not clear yet if this is man who was actively involved in that attack today. or if he was simply the man who rented the van but he's being called a suspect. all of this started about four hours ago, this white van spotted on las ramblas in this very historic, densely populated tourist area. it was about 5:00 in the afternoon spanish time.

people were well after 5:00. it was the peak of the tourist season now in august. this was a very populated, crowded place. the van according to eyewitnesses jumped the curb on to the sidewalk and accelerated into these crowds of tourists. some reports unconfirmed by nbc news at this point that that van travelled several hundred feet, possibly as far as 1,000 feet or more, hitting people along the way. and you can see in this just horrific video the aftermath of this attack. just devastating damage that was done to so many people. people lying on the ground, people being treated by bystanders who witnessed all of this. police were on the scene within moments, witnesses said. and were trying to clear people

away in the panic. a lot of people ran into shops -- shop owners closed their shutters. essentially had people locked in, looking for a safe space for a good hour or so. within the past couple of hours police have been going through these store fronts. they have been clearing people out, escorting them out of the area. they say they have evacuated this area because of an ongoing police operation. and as i said, we now know that two people are in custody. it's not clear if this manhunt is over or if spanish police are looking for more than two. nicolle? >> kelly, it has such chilling echoes of the tactics used in the nice attacks and i wonder they were very quick to identify this as terrorism. i wonder if you have any reporting from spanish officials about specific networks or the investigation into whether this was connected to other plots inside spain or across europe. >> they're not talking about

that as yet. as a matter of fact, we're not getting a whole lot of information from spanish police in general. but you can bet that this is something that they'll be looking at. was this person connected to a wider network? were any of these three suspects that they're looking at now traveling in different parts of europe? were they talking to some sort of net work in france, in belgium where we have -- you know, we also had a terrorist attack. in germany. looking at all of those possible links across the continent to see if there's any sort of tie there. they haven't talked about that specifically yet. but surely that is something they'll be looking into. there's been an awful lot of reporting, nicolle, on different things that were found inside that car. none of it has been confirmed by nbc news. so we're sort of staying away from that at this point. but you can bet the police are

looking for identities of these guys and looking for links to other potential terrorist networks in other parts of europe. >> kelly, if you get anything else, please come back. thank you for spending some time with us. i know it's been a marathon for you. joining us, sean henry, former assistant director of the fbi and an msnbc contributor. joinings by phone, a senior analyst. juan, let me start with you quickly. there hasn't been a terror attack carried out in spain since the 2004 train attacks in madrid and i wonder if -- did they change their approach to terror investigations? did the terrorists move on and move out and were there flash points, was there chatter as we used to call it around 9/11 that maybe something had spiked and that maybe barcelona was a target? >> nicolle, spain has been dodging bullets from terrorist threats for a number of years.

even though you haven't seen an attack of this sort or the type we saw in madrid in 2004. we have seen canaries in the coal mine in terms of a number of radicalized individuals and cells and new york that spanish authorities have rolled up and disrupted over the past several years and in fact just this summer a number of jihadi cells arrested and disrupted in spain. back in april there were a number of individuals and suspects arrested in barcelona with suspected ties to the brussels network and attack. and spanish authorities have been quite worried especially given barcelona where about a third of the radicals and networks that they're most worried about are located. so there's been a consistent concern coming out of north africa. certainly morocco being a hot bed. it's why spanish authorities work very closely with the

moroccans. a number of recruitment cells with ties to al qaeda, about three-quarters have ties to al qaeda, supplying men, materiel, to isis. and i think it helps explain why they haven't had attacks in recent years. but i think the volume has been of concern and i think the number of individuals who are radicalized has been a major concern for spanish officials. so unfortunately as we have talked about before, nicolle, this is not surprising on european streets. it's incredibly tragic. especially on one of the great boulevards in europe if not the world. >> it is. it's an exquisite spot. sean, i want to ask you about the manhunt under way. kelly cobiella had talked about arrests that had been made but i want you to take us inside the manhunt on foot and on the streets of barcelona. also the digital manhunt. what kinds of things will we learn once the named suspects or

the names of the people who have been arrested from the digital fingerprints if you will? >> well, you have a variety of things that are happening simultaneously, nicolle. on the scene you have people that are exploiting -- police officers exploiting the van, the vehicle looking for fingerprints, looking for any paper that may have been left behind or any type of documents and you have other officers who are talking to witnesses. trying to get verbal statements but also looking at cameras. any video that they may have. et cetera. when you get beyond that, when you start to identify who these individuals are, the global manhunt begins. you have intelligence services from around the globe that are all offering their assistance to the spanish authorities. the fbi has agents that are stationed in madrid. they certainly have been in contact with and may actually be in barcelona now actually on site. offering the full capabilities of the u.s. intelligence

community along with the cia and the nsa. when we talk about the digital footprint we're really talking about exploiting all of the devices that these individuals may have. once they get the identification, they'll be looking to go to residences where they may have stayed. perhaps getting credit card receipts if they have been in hotels, identifying telephones, cell phones they may have had. ipads, laptops. through those connections they'll be looking at social media trying to identify connectivity with other members of a potential cell or people they may have been in contact with. through that exploitation they're looking to see if this is a cell that is directed by a particular terrorist organization or are these individuals who are radicalized by being online, working through social media. are these people who were susceptible to the jihadi rhetoric if in fact this is tied back to jihadi terrorism and looking to see how they may have

been motivated and inspired, the type of funding or resources that they were provided in support of this horrendous event, nicolle. >> juan zarate, can you take us inside of what all the european capitals and what all of the intelligence services in europe are doing in concert with our intelligence services? you know, obviously, the paris attacks are something that you talked about dodging a bullet but obviously something that intelligence officials in spain watch closely. were there things that were done differently? i mean, you talked about canaries in the mine, dodging bullets. is it your feeling that it was only a matter of time before something like this, some small scale with a weapon that almost everybody has, a vehicle, that took place in barcelona or is it your sense that we are losing the battle against lone wolves? >> a lot of good questions, nicolle. i think the first problem is you have the demonstration effect of

this kind of attack that has taken hold. you now have nice, the berlin christmas market attack. you have london westminster bridge. you have charlottesville where people realize based on the demonstration of the effectiveness, the horror and the terror that ensues, not to mention the prompting by isis and al qaeda in the case of violent extremism this is a tactic that can and should be used against civilians. and the reality is, this can happen anywhere on european streets. unfortunately anywhere in the world. that is just a reality of the current counterterrorism environment. i think european authorities continue to try to grapple with these low tech, high impact events that are aimed right at the heart of symbolic civilian centers in places like barcelona. so that's a first dimension of this. the demonstration effect is very

real and this methodology has taken hold. the other problem here is the embedded cell structure of these networks. these networks have radicalized individuals both in physical contact, you know, in prisons, in criminal networks. through charismatic leaders, as well as online. and recent studies have shown that most of the individuals arrested in spain over the last few years have had physical contact with individuals who radicalized them. it's been a process of radicalization over time. the spanish are worried about those individuals in spain as well as those who have been traveling in to places like syria. approximately 130 spanish in syria. so when you're talk -- what you're tacking about is -- talking about is a methodology taking hold and with isis in some cases pulling the strings. that is of concern. not just in spain.

it's a concern throughout europe. it's what authorities in london, paris and brussels are looking at again tonight. >> thank you so much, juan zarate and shawn for spending some time with us. we're grateful for your insights on a tragic day. nbc's kelly o'donnell is with the president in new jersey and he's getting updates as it unfolds in barcelona. >> this is one of the days when a president is in many ways a bystander and an observer just as the rest of us. he has the opportunity through his national security team and top advisers to get on the ground information from our partners in spain. but beyond that, it's hard to know what the president is learning or what he may be doing. there have been a couple of updates from the white house. initially what you would expect is what we heard that the chief of staff john kelly had informed the president, would be keeping him up to date. and then later it was the first lady who was the first among the top white house officials to send out via twitter her

thoughts and prayers with the #barcelona. then the president sent out two tweets. one -- the first one very much in the vein of what a president would do when there's a sad event like this, that very much is on the minds of people in the united states as well as around the world. and that tweet reads very straightforwardly. the united states condemns the terror attack in barcelona, spain, and we'll do whatever is necessary to help. be tough and strong and we love you with an exclamation point. especially in the last sentence that's the voice of the president, more than a staffer on his behalf. a curious follow-up tweet that was within the hour of that initial one that the president says, study what general pershing of the united states did to terrorists when caught. there was no more radical islamic terror for 35 years. that's echoing a story he would tell on the campaign trail, as candidate donald trump and now as commander in chief and

curiously, he repeated this anecdote which historians through politifact which does fact checking finds there isn't a historical basis for this. so it -- it appears that it is incorrect information being tweeted by the president at this time. the vice president who is traveling in south america is now in panama. at the end of his week long trip, he has spoken publicly there and has offered the prayers of the american people. said the things you would expect him to say, conveying the good wishes of the american people. and he will be with the president tomorrow at camp david for a security summit. they are holding there. nicolle? >> kelly o'donnell, thank you for spending some time with us. when we come back a big day in presidential politics, and more fallout from donald trump's controversial statements about charlottesville. one said that donald trump lacks the competence to be the

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for five days republican lawmakers have by in large privately languished over -- anguished over president trump's attack in charlottesville with few exceptions most expressed frustrations only in whispers to reporters or behind closed doors. even after trump's unhinged press conference on tuesday. but today, one prominent republican senator has come out of the shadows. i want to play for you bob corker's stunning rebuke of the president to reporters in his

home state today. >> you know, i think there needs to be some radical changes. the president has not yet -- has not yet been able to demonstrate the ability nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate in order to be successful. and we need for him to be successful. our nation needs for him to be successful. it doesn't matter what you're a republican or democrat. you need for our president -- the world needs our president to be successful. he also recently has not demonstrated that he understands the character of this nation. he has not demonstrated that

he's -- that he understands what has made this nation great and what it is today and he's got to demonstrate the characteristics of the president who understands that. and without the things that i just mentioned happening, our nation is going to go through great peril. >> let's get to our team of reporters. "washington post," msnbc analyst and moderator of washington week, robert costa. and from the associated press, julie pace. "wall street journal" white house reporter eli stokols and capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt joins us at the table. robert costa, let me start with you. stability and competence strike right at the heart of whether someone is fit to serve. what do you hear when you hear corker, not an antagonist of this president, not like lindsey graham, bob corker has tried to

go along with what this president has wanted him to do but talking about lacking the stability and competence i hear a question about whether or not donald trump is fit to serve. >> it's a revealing comment, nicolle. as you remember during the campaign, corker was in the running to be then candidate trump's pick for the vice presidential slot and he was considered a trump ally particularly on foreign policy, but you're seeing a fraying of the republican party. like chairman corker away from president trump because of the way that politics have become racialized and racial animus has been driven up in their view by president trump. >> julie pace, do you think these very almost painfully delivered remarks from senator corker, again, a man who has tried to align himself with donald trump on matters big and small calling in to question donald trump's stability and competence and saying that he

doesn't understand the character of the nation. do you think that corker is questioning the fundamental fitness of donald trump to serve as our country's president? >> he's getting pretty close to that kind of statement right there. and he's reflecting things that we have been hearing from republicans privately behind the scenes for several months. almost since the election. and i think the fact that you're now starting to see some of those private comments become public is a real -- it's a real danger for the white house. they have been operating in this landscape where they know that the president doesn't have the full loyalty of the republican party that that is a tenuous situation there. but they have been able to at least in public keep things together and the idea that you would have senators breaking away in this public way and talking about the president in those terms at this point in the presidency, in this first year when republicans have control of congress and a republican in the white house is quite extraordinary.

>> eli stokols, i want you to tell me what you think is happening. my sense from listening to corker and watching that tape and you before the show pointed me toward the comments of south carolina senator tim scott questioning whether -- or remarking that donald trump lacked the moral authority to lead this country. are republicans finally saying out loud what republicans and democrats have been saying privately for many, many months now, that donald trump may lack the stability and the competence and the moral compass to be the president of this country? >> it sure seems that's the case. cory gardner over the weekend was one of the first republican voices criticizing this administration. coming out with some pointed comments after the comments about charlottesville from the president. and i think you're right. this is a turning point in a way for a lot of the things that have been worried about privately to be expressed publicly. corker's comments today are really stunning talking about

donald trump, the guy who put make america great again on his hats not understanding what makes the country actually great. really scathing comments but also you have to understand these senators are smart people. they know that donald trump did not run a campaign talking about the country's foundational ideals. taking about pluralism. they know he catered to people's tribal instincts, talked about nationalism. this is a point they can no longer sort of indulge in the magical thinking or the willful avoidance of what this president's message and true beliefs are after charlottesville and the comments that really brought the racial element of this out into the open and the president doubling and tripping down on those comments and its makes it hard for the republicans to sort of make excuses for the at upon -- for the president at this point. >> are we at the point that donald trump has forced republicans to decide whether they agree with him, there's an equivalence between white

supremists and the kkk and those who protest those movements or whether they see neo-nazis as worse than everybody? >> look, i do think that republicans are where you describe already. i'm not hearing any significant voices in the republican party saying there should be a moral equivalence. no, there's no moral equivalence, but the question has been are they willing to criticize the president by name, to call him out directly for it and ask him to do something different. that's what i think -- and i think the thing that stuck with me in the corker remarks, our nation is going to go through great peril. he is assigning -- he's the chairman of the foreign relations committee. don't forget this also is one of the first times we have heard from him since last week we were talking about potential nuclear war with north korea. all of the things that are showing the world that the united states is going through the turbulent time. it affects everything across the

board. i think that's what you heard from him. >> robert costa, i talked to a former gop official about as high ranking as one can be in the old republican party who said he's voting straight democratic in 2018 with the hopes that a change in the leadership in congress might hasten an impeachment proceeding for donald trump. i called six more operatives to say you have put half of the sitting members of the senate in office by running their campaigns, you have worked for house members, do you agree? about half of them would be inclined to vote for democrats to have a real check. i wonder if bob corker's comments today sort of give republicans more hope that the republican party might be finding its soul, even if it loses some of that trump base. >> nicolle, it's not just republican operatives. there are people inside the white house who privately tell me that they're unsettled by president trump to embrace the

existence and -- of confederate monuments and statues. they think it's an unseemly turn, but they say this is the president's instinct, the steve bannon direction away from the traditional dynamics and norms of politics but i don't see the party really willing to go there yet, because they know the president and bannon and breitbart have such a grip on the base. >> julie pace, i know you have spent a lot of time with this president. i know from the transcript of your great interview with him he offered you a diet coke in the middle which is to this day the most charming thing i read about him. i wonder, i mean, i have been told that he doesn't see himself as a racist. do you think anyone has gone into -- in to explain to him why some of us might? >> there are definitely advisers who have gone to the president to explain why the initial comments and then the secondary set of comments on the topic are so problematic.

why the reaction was so critical. and that did force the president to eventually try to recalibrate on it. but clearly he didn't internalize it. that's the dynamic that we see so often with the president and his advisers. itself not always as though he's hearing people around him say, you know, great job, mr. president. that went really well. he does get people who try to advise him, who try to give h him -- >> who julie, who are those folks? >> well, look, it has happened at the senior levels of the white house. jared kushner and ivanka trump have tried to tell the president, this is why something this is playing this way, this is why this reaction is this way. he has members of the house and the senate tell him the same. no matter what he's hearing from his advisers he goes with his gut. even if he say has to say

something that's diametricry opposed to what he said the day before. >> thank you so much for spending some time with us. coming up do senator bob corker's comments open the floodgates of questions that have long been whispered about trump's stability and competence? our panel weighs in when we come back. ♪ sailin' away on the crest of a wave, it's like magic ♪ ♪ rollin' and ridin' and slippin' and slidin' ♪ ♪ it's magic introducing the all new volkswagen tiguan. ♪ higher and higher, baby the new king of the concrete jungle. chances are, the last time yoyou got robbed.an, i know-- i got a loan 20 years ago, and i got robbed. that's why i started lendingtree-- the only place you can compare up to 5 real offers

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we are back and we want to bring in our panel. joining us at the table, associated press jonathan what mere who is deep inside every beat of the last several days and we have from the root and nbc contributor, jason jason and rich stengel and kasie is still with us at the table. you have been on pool duty since when? >> since last wednesday. >> okay. so you have been inside the room for all of these statements. talk about -- put what you have

seen the president -- you have been in the room for all of these avails and then put bob corker's reaction to what he has seen in context. >> well, i think we're seeing it's the roller coaster effect. it started -- i was in the pool last week in bedminster where the president couldn't get enough of the media. he had -- >> does everyone know what the pool is? so the press corps doesn't always fit into every room so there's a reduced group. >> like 13 of us. and the a.p. is a permanent part -- >> but the point being -- >> we travel wherever he goes. first he couldn't get enough of us that he was talking about north korea. he fielded 50 questions over two days. at some point, literally going reporter to reporter. come on, ask me something else. ask me something else. and then we get to saturday when charlottesville happens. he came into the clubhouse of his golf club. and gave -- delivered a statement about on many sides and walked out. as we shouted questions to him. do -- >> what did his staff do when he talked about many sides in the

ra race -- >> well, there was a dramatic statement to the one at trump tower. this is when he said that the staff walked out quickly with him. he ignored shouted questions. then we saw monday at the white house. where he delivered the reverent -- he read from the teleprompter and delivered the more traditional statement you expect from a president, condemning the white supremacists and then comes on tuesday, he signed off the plan from aides. i'm going to deliver a statement on infrastructure and then leave. instead, immediately he reverted back and then some to his statement on saturday. blaming members of the alt left as he put it. and suggesting that the far right, the ku klux klan included, did not deserve the entire blame. as this was happening his sta staff -- sort of already famous photo of john kelly with his arms crossed staring at his

shoes. sarah huckabee sanders was frantically trying to make eye contact with the aides and one had his mouth drop as it happened. this is not the plan. they have seen -- the president careen into yet another crisis. that's what we're seeing from senator corker. >> so let's put up some of the magazine covers. america's magazines weighing in with some of the most stunning covers i have seen since i've worked in politics. that's the new yorker. i'm going to hand these off to the magazine editor, rick stengel. the economist with a not too subtle image there and "time" magazine with the president making a startling -- startling images. >> yes, i guess president trump has been good for art directors. that's probably the one group -- very powerful covers. when you think about it, magazines tend to be conservative and these are strong statements and they kind of align with what corker was saying which is that this -- there's something really close to being unfit about this

president in terms of both his ideology and temperament. a good measurement for a president, he has a third rate temperament and a third rate mind that's dangerous. you look at the covers -- >> does he have sound mind? when i hear he lacks the stability and competence, i wonder if corker -- then he ties it to the peril and the grave danger we're in around the world do you think corker is worried about his mental fitness? >> i suspect he is. if i had any advice for any person, man or woman, who became president is to get over yourself. make sure you don't react quickly. and you don't personalize things. >> that's all that he does. >> that's all that he does and he reacts in a childish, petulant way. >> i asked this question at the beginning of the week over the reverting back to the many sides argument. will anyone resign. i'll ask that question again. you work for a man who has brought these images back into

american life. are any of you going to resign? how do they work for him? >> because either they privately agree with him or because they think they can still manage him enough to accomplish policy goals. look, i have always viewed this -- i don't care if donald trump is a racist. there's lots of racist people in this country. we have had tons of racist presidents. but white nationalists belief in the ethno-national state. they believe that no one in america who is not a white christian has a role in government, media, education and they want everyone who is not white and christian to go. for him to make a moral equivalency they're a danger to the existence of a pluralist state. and he said i'm playing footsy with the people. you're in agreement with a president who coddles people who have terrorism tendencies and that's dangerous. >> those are strong words. i would push back if i hadn't heard from the journalists from vice who is embedded with them

who said she had heard via text messages from the white supremacists themselves that they were heartened and that they felt a little bit of wind at their back by his comments. kasie hunt, how long is it sustainable if you have republicans speaking openly about real legitimate questions about the stability and competence of the leader of the free world and suggesting that he does not understand the character of this nation. >> i think that character remark is extraordinarily strong and one that will reverberate. and one thing i will say too, you have to remember and i'm interested to see how this shifts over the next two weeks. the senators they're back in their home states. sometimes they're more comfortable talking to their local reporters or willing to say things -- because they remember what the old media environment was like. i'm not saying they promise one thing at home and something different in washington but the comments are immediate lie in this national conversation that we are having and that means the president is seeing them. and i think that, you know, bob

corker is somebody who has spent time with president trump. he knows that this is the case with president trump. and if he's making those comments in front of a television camera, i think that's a significant -- i think it's meant to send a message because, you know, none of these republicans get in front of the camera and think that eventually they're -- their message is not going to reach the president of the united states. but my question is still what do they do in the wake of this? there have been some calls to censure the president in congress, calls to remove statues of confederates in statutory hall and the capitol complex. if you're republicans what do you do? again, i think the bind for these staffers, right, is do you -- it's the same one as they had originally, do you go into the administration if you're not sure of this president for the good of the country? >> can i answer you as someone -- no. eli stokols --

>> what should they do instead? >> they have to live with their complicated decision making. if i can put the magazine covers up. these are the times we're living in. this is america in 2017, thank you, donald trump. eli stokols, you're the king of presidential tells. what are you watching for on his twitter feed today? >> i think we saw it -- >> you know pershing? >> yeah. we saw how fast he reacted here when he believed it was radical islamic terrorist and it was much easier for him to respond and allegheso responding with f news the folklore about general pershing a story about him dipping bullets in the pigs blood to kill the muslims. it was totally debunked. a very dubious story. that what's he goes to hours

after a terror attack. that's what he's going to. this is a president who is making it clear that he wants to stoke the culture wars. you can file that tweet under the same umbrella of white identity politics and since his reaction on saturday and his meltdown press conference on tuesday, he's speaking from his own gut. based on my reporting, he's resentful of the people in the white house who told him that you've got to go out monday. you have to make another statement. you have to condemn the kkk and nazis by name because he thinks it made him look weak and he's less concerned with looking like a racist than he is with looking weak and with keeping that base intact and solid. >> all right. everyone at our table is bursting. eli is on fire. we are just hitting pause. no one is going anywhere and we'll pick it back up after this break. (vo) my name is bryan.

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has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate in order to be successful. and we need for him to be successful. our nation needs for him to be successful. it doesn't matter if you're a republican or democrat, we need for our president and the world needs our president to be successful. >> that was gop senator bob corker of tennessee in remarks made today after a speech he gave there. it comes on the heels of some reporting this morning from "the new york times" that says president trump found himself increasingly isolated in a racial crisis of his own making on wednesday. abandoned by the nation's top business executives, contradicted by military leaders and shunned by republicans outraged by his defense of white nationalist protests in charlottesville, virginia. jonathan, i read through all of the statements from military

leaders and cannot remember a time in our history when the military has had to sort of assert that its values are not racist because of comments made by the country's commander in chief. >> yeah. this is an extraordinary moment. i think senator corker should probably pay attention to the twitter mentions as the president will be coming at him at any time. >> what is he going to say about him, that he's not loyal, that he was loyal, he led the charge for sanctions -- i mean he's sort of an unimpeachable critic. >> right. he was up for a cabinet position. this is -- what we have seen for a few days, lots and lo ats -- lots of growing discontent from behind the scenes about this president. finally people are putting their name to it. senator sullivan said it today. he suggested that the president failed by not calling out the white supremacist groups by name. tim scott has questioned his

ability to lead. we are seeing finally some republicans step up and say, this is not okay, mr. president. perhaps out of concern with what he's doing to the party and the country. >> we started our show yesterday talking about how america's titans of business were more outraged and more able to sort of summon the courage to break with the president than republican members of congress over the comments about charlottesville. what -- i know you have talked about social responsibility being sort of an evolution of business but it wasn't so long ago that occupy wall street dominated the political conversation about businesses. so how did they end up getting ahead of republicans in congress in terms of being able to break up with this president? >> it's a really good question. i think one of the things that we have seen and we have all agreed is that donald trump's head is in the 1980s. his idea of business is 1980s. >> 1980s or the '20s? >> or the '70s.

all the guys running corporations they understand that to hire millennials, to hire people you have to show -- >> you have to sell stuff to millennial. don't be a racist. >> donald trump doesn't know what that phrase social responsibility means. i would go back -- for someone who dealt a lot with bob corker when i was in -- in the state department, he's the most -- he's an a reasonable, pragmatic guy. for him to say something that goes to the heart of this man's competence and character is really astonishing and it really can start the fissure that ends with him being out of office. >> maybe the base is with him, but the reality is these white supremacists are a tiny minority of this country. and the president is letting them speak for all of us. >> right. it is important to say that not all of president trump's supporters sympathize with the

white supremacists but almost all the supremacists are on the side of donald trump. we have to take a quick break. steve bannon on line two. on the receiving end of a phone call from the president's chief strategist. when he thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes! we got a yes! what does that mean for purchasing? purchase. let's do this. got it. book the flights! hai! si! si! ya! ya! ya! what does that mean for us? we can get stuff. what's it mean for shipping? ship the goods.

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well, let's see. look, look, i like mr. bannon. eels a friend of mine, but mr.

bannon came on very late. you know that. i went through 17 senators, governors, and i won all the primaries. mr. bannon came on very much later than that, and i like him. he's a good man. he is not a racist,ic tell you that. he's a good person. he actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. but we'll see what happens with mr. bannon. >> it's hard to believe that was only 48 hours ago. plut decidedly not going to the mat for top strategist steve bannon. well, it appears bannon decided he would defend himself. steve bannon called robert cut ner, cofounder and coeditor of the progressive publication american prospect. let loose on policies and enemies in and outside the white house. you might think from recent press accounts that steve bannon is on the ropes and therefore behaving prudently in the aftermath of events in charlottesville, he's widely blamed for his boss's continuing

indulgence of white supremacists. allies of national security advisor h.r. mcmaster hold bannon responsible for a campaign by breitbart news which bannon once led to vilify the security chief. but bannon was in high spirits when he phoned me tuesday afternoon to discuss the politics of taking a harder line with china and minimumsed no words describing his efforts to neutralize his rivals at the departments of defense, state and treasury. they're wetting themselves, he said, proceeding to detail how he would oust some of his opponents at state and defense. joining us now is the man who was on the other end of that phone call on vacation no less. cofounder and coeditor of the american prospect magazine. thank you so much for spending some time with us. >> pleasure to be with you. >> so i'm dying to know how this went down, but i'm so stunned by his comments on north korea. for a man who has been kicked off the national security council, he obviously still has very strong feelings about the

direction this president takes on foreign policy. and i wonder if you -- instead of me reading it, just talk about that part of the interview about north korean policy. >> well, you know, the president had threatened to unleash god knows what on north korea. >> fire and fury. >> fire and fury. and i think bannon is right on this. bannon pointed out that if any armed conflict were actually to break out, 10 million south koreans in greater seoul would die in the first 30 minutes from conventional weapons that north korea could let loose on them. and he simply said the idea of that sort of armed exchange was just out of the question. which i think is correct. and it just happens to completely contradict his boss. so that was a little surprising. >> do you think that's why you called you, because you agreed with him on that policy? >> no.

i think -- look, what happened was i wrote an article pointing out that because we have been so passive in our trade policy towards china, china has a ton of leverage with us right now in the korean crisis because we need them to try and restrain the north koreans and that means we have to take a much softer line on trade than might be wise. and certainly than people like steve bannon think we ought to take. so bannon read this column and he asked his assistant to get in touch with me, set up a conversation, because he thought he saw a soul mate. and i think bannon made it clear that he's got this grand design that he can assemble liberal critics, conservative critics of china policy and maybe change the policy. what's really weird, if you think about it, just imagine steve bannon in the white house with representatives of the national security council and treasury and state and

trade-offs saying, hey, you'll never guess what i got. i got bob cut ner back in my position. that doesn't exactly enhance his p credibility in the trump administration. so i think there's a grand osty here. there's a very smart guy who is a little too full of himself, a little too reckless, and this happens to a lot of people. it kind of reminds me of somebody named donald trump. and the other thing that happened was that about two minutes into the conversation i realized that he hadn't said this is off the record. and as you know in the news business, if a reporter is contacted by a government official and the government official doesn't say we're talking on background, the default setting is that you're on the record. and so the whole conversation was on the record, and he may or may not have been fully conscious of that. and what's really weird is that the day this broke his original story was, oh, i didn't know we were on the record and then a day later he gave an interview to the daily mail, british

newspaper of all places and he said well, actually, i did it deliberately in order to divert the media's attention from their obsession with charlottesville. so this is guy who kind of makes it up as he goes along. that reminds of somebody else as well. very interesting, complicated guy. and i came away thinking that the only reason he could possibly be so reckless is that he believes that as long as trump is continuing down this road of getting into bed with white supremacists, he needs bannon because bannon is the architect of that strategy. >> it's a fascinating piece. everybody should read it. we are so grateful that you spent a little bit of time with us. the thank you so much for your patients. rick stang el, does steve bannon survive this? it seems like he and the president are so insink ideologically. >> by the way, i never want to be a person who is praised as a good person by president trump. that usually means you're out. >> on your way out. but what do you think? >> i don't know. i've never been into this inside

white house stuff, so i just don't know. >> i don't think it matters. i think people ascribe bannon as being the one that influences trump. i don't think trump needs bannon to be influenced in a bad way. all right. my thanks to our panel. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" starts right now. hi, chuck. >> i'll answer your question. >> tell me. >> i just think -- i think steve bannon has made it very difficult for john kelly to fire him and i'll just leave it at that. >> i agree with you. >> thank you. see you tomorrow. good evening and welcome to "mtp daily." it's a time for choosesing in the republican party. president trump slammed his charlottesville critics again today, cheered one of their primary challengers and joined the protests against removing confederate monuments as dp op critics fired back. one suggested he's incompetent. and we're going to dive into all of that in a few minutes. but we're going to begin tonight with breaking news in barcelona, spain.