hi, everyone. it's 4:00. somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, and reached for his phone and tv remote and instead of heading to sunrise yoga. donald trump started his day by lashing out at clapper on twitter. he on tuesday night had donald trump's fitness for the office and expressed concern about trump possessing the nation's nuclear codes. the president also took to twitter to offer his own review of his erratic responses, ostensibly because of the media talked about the stark contrast in tone and he saved some of his harshest words for republican leaders in congress. just after 9:00 a.m., the president tweeted, quote, james clapper who famously got caught lying to congress is now an authority on donald trump. will he show you his beautiful letter to me? and he weighed in on the press

coverage of the week. the fake news is complaining about my different types of speeches. a back-to-back speeches. well, there was afghanistan, somber. the big rally, enthusiastic, dynamic and fun. and the american legion v.a., respectful and strong. too bad the democrats have no one who can change tones. end tweet. he re-upped his war of words against mitchell m and paul r. i requested that mitch m and paur r tie the debt ceiling into the bill so they didn't do it so we have a big deal with democrats holding them up. could have been so easy, now a mess. here's how white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders addressed the rift with members of the president's own party. specifically those recent comments from senator bob corker over the president's competence. >> i want to read the comment

from senator bob corker. i'm sure you have seen it over a week ago about the president saying that the president had not yet been able to demonstrate the stability nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate in order to be successful. and he said he's not sure that the president understands the character of this nation. do you have any response to that? from a republican senator? >> i think that's a ridiculous and outrageous claim and doesn't dignify a response from this podium. >> let's bring all after our reporters, peter alexander, philip rucker from "the washington post." robert costa, national political reporter at "the washington post." shannon pettypiece from bloomberg and philip bump from "the washington post." peter alexander, let me start with you. so bob corker wasn't the only republican who came into the cross hairs of sarah huckabee sanders today. it sounded like a bit of

brinksmanship from the president, a republican president against republican leaders over a few issues. namely funding for the wall. >> yeah, i think that's exactly right as we keep our eyes focused on texas right now and hurricane harvey i think you can rate this morning's tweet storm a category 2 as it were, kind of going back to familiar opponents in mitch mcconnell as well as paul ryan. senator corker obviously on that list today as well. i think what you would hear from this white house the bottom line is that they believe this sort of plays to the president's strengths, that he campaigned an an insur gent outsider that he's been attacking his critics the establishment. threatening to drain the swamp as it were. you might say these are chief crocodiles even though they're republicans and what it demonstrates is his fundamental lack of understanding about the way that washington works and that these are the same individuals that he's going to need to lean on to help support his agenda in the weeks and

months ahead. >> peter alexander, there's a lot of reporting out by this afternoon in the -- in politico, in "the new york times" earlier this the week that what sort of undergirds all of his grievances with leaders in congress is that they haven't had his back on russia. it reminds me of his grievances with jim comey who wasn't willing to protect mike flynn when it came to russia, his attorney general recusing himself from the russia investigation and then was the target of several angry trump tweets. this dynamic of the president expecting members of congress in either party frankly to have protected him from russia seems completely delusional. >> yeah, i think the bottom line is that the russia topic for this president is personal. certainly the way this investigation has gone, with the focus on jared kushner among others. don jr., his son being wrapped up into this. that's why on this topic in

particular the -- it threatens his ability to get anything done and threatens the trump name and what he believes he stands for. that's why from a personal position this is what makes him so upset which is why it's the item that he uses when he lashes out most aggressively at those members of congress, those republican senators behind closed doors and given the fact that the focus going to be renewed on russia in the days and weeks ahead as congress returns here and the investigations at least as they exist on capitol hill sort of ramp up yet again it doesn't seem like this is an item that he's going to be able to erase any time soon. >> peter alexander i know you have other duties, thank you so much for carving out some time for us. we appreciate it. philip rucker, let me get to you and your piece about whiplash, aptly named. just talk me through one, your piece, and two, what seemed like the president's response to your piece. >> yeah. well, look, i think we all noticed how different these three presentations were. monday night the serious and

sober speech about the afghanistan war strategy. tuesday night an entirely different president trump at the campaign rally where he was divisive and attacking any number of groups including the media. and then wednesday he was calling for unity and healing at the american legion. it seems like he's really in whiplash and what you see happening here is whenever he stays to the script and says what his advisers want him to say which is what he did monday night in afghanistan, he has these pentup grievances that he has to let out at some point. it felt like that tuesday night rally in phoenix was a release of all that pressure. let it all out. he said what he wanted to say. he played to his audience. you know, his crowds like him raw. they like him to show his emotion. they like him to speak extemporaneously and he thinks it works for him. he feels very confident in those performances. >> robert costa, you were live tweeting this rally and let me just read the reviews he gave himself. enthusiastic, dynamic and fun.

were those the words you'd use to describe the phoenix rally? >> i described the phoenix rally as a twitter feed come alive because we saw the president air his grievances and the president -- and president trump has always had a different view of his performance than most of the news media coverage. i know that sounds obvious, but this is something we have been following for over two years since he entered the national political arena as a candidate. he's someone who's always had a different perspective about the size of his crowds. about the -- his performance in general. >> you know, that's such a good point and i think that he's probably more in tune with and in touch with the way that 33% of the country that counts itself as solidly in his corner experiences the full 360 trump experience. but it's interesting that he seems to be in denial that when

he goes and calls for unity some of what he has to heal are divisions that he helped create. >> that's very true, nicolle. and we have seen the president throughout his career be able to separate all of these different comments. some days he'll be hot. some days he'll be cold. he's be with someone as a friend, the bitter enemy the next. we have to remember it's in the art of the deal, so many of his different remarks. he sees the unpredict kt as an asset. that disruption is power. that not being able to understand him is power in and of itself. as he kind of chaotically dominates situations and relationships. >> and philip bump, you write about this unity effort if you will. what are your thoughts sort of stacking the three speeches up against each other. it was your spectacular piece that brought me back to that phoenix rally and where it all

began and president trump did as you predicted wrapped himself in all of the themes that animated the first speech that was nationally televised on all cable networks and that really catapulted him to the top. you were the first one to write about how it was to be expected that he would do that at that rally. but to come out as robert costa is saying and try to cloak himself in a message of unity afterward seems, you know, at best delusional. >> well, i think that the thing to remember about donald trump when he uses the term unity he's not talking about unity in the sense of the grand union e pluribus -- and that americans will unite around him and respect him as a president. >> it means that we all get behind him. >> and if he was going to unite in the e pluribus unum since, he would make it part of his base

answer one of things we saw him do this week, monday, tuesday and wednesday he made the case of how the military is fighting for one cause, patriotism and the flag and then on thursday he undercuts it with the report in the "wall street journal" he's going to ban transgender people from the military. it reinforces the idea that the military has some divisions that there are -- that this needs to be worked through in the military. >> it suggests he has no idea at the chain of chain of command you aren't able to defy it -- >> i'm sure he'd happy to have it applied to all of it. >> including the press. let me ask you about the fight with clapper and sarah huckabee sanders's real rebuke for bob corker who has been as steadfast as an ally as this white house has in the republican circles. i mean, other than jeff sessions i can't think of anyone who

really tried to give president trump the benefit of the doubt on his weakest area which is foreign policy on the campaign. she called the questions about which -- we are heart felt. i don't think corker wanted to say what he said, but he questioned the president's competence and stability after that performance a week ago in tuesday in response to charlottesville. then the president is now in day two which seems to be sort of mid length for a public showdown that spans twitter and tv with former director of national intelligence james clapper. he tweeted about him this morning saying, you know, he talks about himself in the third person which may reinforce clapper's very point saying that what did he write? james clapper who famously got kautiond lying to congress is now an authority on donald trump. will he show you the beautiful letter? clapper said he wrote identical notes to candidates based on who had won so it wasn't anything trump specific. >> but of course he --

>> it's all about him, right. >> i think with the attacks on clapper and corker and mcconnell, everyone else, the president is someone looking for an enemy. he did really well in the primaries when he had enemies. >> 16. >> he would go through them, boom boom boom boom. take them on one by one and of course in the general election with hillary clinton he had the ultimate enemy he could go after. the democratic party doesn't have a strong enemy so he's picking them out in his own party. in his own administration. in his own intelligence community. he is someone who thrives on -- you know, this antagonistic relationship. that's where his strengths are. you know, he's weakest when he punches down when he goes after the enemy, a small person. not a small person -- >> a subordinate. when he fought with sessions he got killed. >> he's strongest when he's punching up. when he's going towards corporate america, going after a foreign enemy. that's a question, if you want an enemy, start taking on the big guys. you know, start going the -- >> how about russia?

>> exactly. >> philip rucker, take me through the wisdom or pull out this string on setting himself up as an adversary of paul r and mitch m on funding for the wall. >> well, first of all, the issue of funding for the wall we have to remember he had campaigned with a promise that mexico would pay for the wall. but he knows mexico's not going to pay for the wall. there was a phone call between president trump and president nieto in mexico. and our colleague got the trap script and it's very clear that nieto said they weren't paying for the wall and he understands that. >> i remember you were on that day and i mean, he understands its but he wanted pena nieto, shh, not tell anybody that you're not going to pay for the wall. >> don't tell the press -- >> don't tell my press. >> it was kind of a joke.

but anyhow that's how we stand with the wall. then he's trying to make an enemy out of mcconnell and ryan, trying to distance himself from them. if things go south this fall if either there's a debt ceiling problem or the budget doesn't pass, or the wall funding is not there, or tax reform blows up, all of these potential failures trump wants to be as far away from that bomb as he can and be able to go around the country and say, it's your fault, paul ryan, it's your fault mitch mcconnell, you weren't able to get my agenda passed. >> robert costa, you're as well sourced as anybody inside the halls of trump landia, which spans the west wing and the halls of breitbart. i'm guessing that the president sees this as a zero risk strategy to go after mitch m and paul r. >> it's a way to stitch the base together because especially if they have to cut a deal at the white house to keep the government open, to push the wall funding negotiations to a fiscal year 2018. you're going to see this hot war of words from the white house with the republican leadership

as a way of almost reassuring the base i'm told. but at the same time, you've got to always separate the hot words public with the cooler talks behind the scenes. as much as the president's at war with the speaker and the senate majority leader, the white house staffers and senate and house staffers are in touch and trying to work through the issues. >> let me ask you, you know, mitch mcconnell and paul ryan are sort of like old fashioned stereotypical dads. which dad is going to have greater patience for the public humiliation that donald trump likes to impose on his enemies if you look at jeff sessions as an example and james comey as an example of the kind of public twitter wars he's had against people that he gets annoyed with. >> well, if we're going to stick with this dad analogy, they're both dads who aren't happenpy with -- happy with the son-in-law. they come from different cultures and environments. there's not an understanding but they're all forced to work

together at this point. >> right. >> and they're all part of the same family. >> they all married into it in a bizarre marriage analogy we can play out. >> you started it, nicolle. >> i did. i always start it. thank you so much for humoring me. thank you to phil rucker. about that dossier, it was the topic of ten hours of questioning earlier this week and now there are bipartisan rumblings about releasing the transcript to the public. we'll ask our resident expert what we learn if that testimony is released. also, is trump trolling the republican party to the brink of a government shutdown and is his frustration all over russia? we'll put it to our panel when we come back.

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trump is making a political decision here. to be presidential, listen to the generals and to go back to his base and fire them up, to put pressure on the senate and the house to do things he wants. he's not the first president to use the bully pulpit to try to push the country in a particular direction or to keep his base on board. so there's nothing unhinged about it. it's a political strategy that i'm not so sure is smart but it's a very thought out strategy. there's nothing crazy about it, it's a political strategy. >> really? a strategy, one that gets you a

33% approval rating, zero legislative accomplishments, a well staffed special counsel investigation into your campaign ties to russia. not a very good political strategy. let's bring in our panel. joining shannon and philip and me at the table, brett stevens and former undersecretary of state for public affairs, rick stengel, also an msnbc analyst and former time managing editor, columnist for "the washington post," gene robinson, also an msnbc analyst and my favorite tv husband. gene, let me start with you. all of this as a political strategy? what say you? >> not a very good one. not a great political strategy. the tweets that he keeps unleashing against republicans in the senate and the house, against the leaders of the republican party, republican majorities in the senate and the house, whom he needs to get

anything done, anything at all legislatively are -- they have to be qualified as i disagree with lindsey graham. i think they are crazy because what you get from insulting mitch mcconnell and insulting paul ryan? you don't get tax reform. you don't get money for the wall. you don't get what you said you're going to give to that base. you keep promising these accomplishments. so i just think it's a bad strategy and somebody ought to give him a better one. >> bret, i have a theory that lindsey graham hears these questions from corker and clapper now on whether the president is fit to serve. i think lindsey is a national security guy understands how terrifying that is to the majority of americans. i think he's trying to turn the heat down on crazy and ascribing a strategy -- >> he's turning the heat up on stupid and that's kind of a bad choice when you're thinking about the person -- >> is that where we are? >> is this a psychiatric

question or just a question of mental competence. because the approach of simply trying to denigrate persistently and nastily members of your own party, the people you need to move your legislation through is kind of extraordinary. i think what it says is that trump is not fundamentally interested this being president. trump is -- >> what does that say? >> will he's more interested in being the central character in his own drama which is why you hear him providing his own tv reviews if you will. i'm sure there are lots of publications who said, step down and we'll give you a spot on our criticism desk. >> but what he is is he's the play-by-play announcer of his own presidency rather than the coach. >> here are his descriptions. okay. gntion. somber. the big rally, enthusiastic, and fun. and american legion, respectful

and strong. like a match.com ad. >> there's they want and there are two deucers and executive producers and he's talent. he doesn't understand -- >> i know. he doesn't understand -- i mean, so -- >> he performs and then reviews his own performance. >> more than a performance. there's some politico reporting that john kelly is trying to control the information he flows i guess as a first step to controlling the performance. politico reported that john kelly is instituting a system used by other administrations, they had normal presidents to make him the last word on what crosses his desk. to making -- without making him feel shackled or out of the loop. that doesn't seem like the paper flow, doesn't seem like he's awash in so many white papers he doesn't know which one to land on. it sounds like he's watching cable and twitter. >> in the steve bannon type of wing of outside type advisers we talk about the strategy and is this madness, how dumb is this

to attack your open -- own party there's the philosophy of burning down the establishment. i want to get these things done and if mitch mcconnell and paul ryan don't work with me i'll burn them down and i have a base solid behind me and i'll primary them one by one until there's nothing left of the republican party. there's this wing of outside -- outer circle advisers that's advocating for that. and i see that this is feeding into that. >> well, phil bump, that makes sense to me. and i thought that the party that i knew and worked for 20 years died in the room the night that he gave his convention speech. so i'm not sure that isn't a wise strategy for this president as the titular head of the republican party. but why not drop the ruse of wanting to pass tax reform? >> it's obvious why he wants tax reform. it's one thing he knows about how much he pays in taxes and how much he doesn't want -- >> so much he won't show us.

>> but i think to some extent though we're overthinking this. i think that lindsey graham is correct it's a strategy. it's a strategy that's powered his entire life which is everyone -- someone is mean to me i'm going to lash out at them. i think we're so used to applying the filters of here's how politics works and that's not how he works. >> it's mood as governing. he doesn't have a policy. he has internal, instinctual reactions. we should run from as fast as possible. >> the central metaphor of donald trump's business career he's a builder. the reality of trump's life is that he's a destroyer. people should read abraham lincoln's speech to the young man's lyceum when he was 29 years old. i think 1838 in which there are two types of american leaders, those who build and then the generation of those who tear down. he was speaking essentially in advance of the civil war. but there's something in trump's character that just likes to

tear down the house. he wants to burn the village but not in order to save it. >> well, while i have you, let me get you then on james clapper's response to that rally in phoenix that night. he watched it live and his immediate reaction was that he didn't think that the man he saw in phoenix was fit to possess the nation's nuclear codes. >> look, i think we have to walk on careful ground when assigning psychiatric -- you know? >> not one of us can diagnose him. >> there's a quality of demagoguery in that speech. the attack on the media as bad people which is -- i mean, i guess we're no longer shocked because we have been sort of swimming in this rhetoric for so long. but that's demagogic and i'm scared to say this but ultimately some journalist is going to be hurt by someone who listens to the president and that will fall on trump's shoulders. so the rhetoric is not only dangerous to the country but

dangerous to him. >> eugene robinson, john heilemann sat in bret's chair yesterday and said the same thing. >> yeah. and i actually was -- the bbc asked me to go on yesterday to talk about that issue, as chair of the pulitzer board. i mean, it is -- it is in a sense frightening. the rhetoric against -- >> are you afraid? >> you are -- you are dishonest. you are -- you are not loyal. you don't like america. you're not on the side of -- you're not on the right side. and you are enemies of the american people. that's just outrageous rhetoric and, you know, i think back to pizzagate to the comment -- the ping-pong pizza incident and you have to worry that that sort of thing could happen in a newsroom. >> gene, you're a leader in the industry. people look up to you, i know you mentor young people in the newsroom.

are you afraid? >> i am -- i'm concerned. i don't feel, you know, physically afraid. but i want this to stop. this is -- this is wrong. this is not -- this is a misrepresentation, against the news media who have always as thomas jefferson realized, as all the founders realize, played a vital role in this democracy. and it's our job to hold public officials accountable. that's why freedom of the press is in the first amendment and it is -- we have not heard this kind of rhetoric from a president before. and it should stop. it must stop. >> all right. i hope he's listening to you, gene. when we come back a key figure behind the new infamous dossier of unsubstantiated claims against president trump.

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so i think the fact that the guys from fusion today gave this extensive testimony and are willing to have that put out there in the public record and turned over 40,000 pages of documents should absolutely terrify donald trump's attorneys and the sort of constellation of media who have been denying and denying that anything in the dossier is true. >> that was rick wilson on with our colleague rachel maddow last night, talking about the ten hour interview and the 40,000 pages worth of documents given to the man who helped to write the trump dossier simpson and chuck grassley will vote on whether it will be release and the attorney for simpson said he and his company are standing what is reported in the dossier.

just one more reason that people like adam schiff are starting to wonder how much longer we should be calling those claims unsubstantiated. >> the key thing from an investigative point of view is not trying to impeach the people who produce the report or commissioned the report but rather find out whether the facts are true in the report. and when you look at just what has become public, some of the public information is very much in line with what is reported in the dossier. the three core goals outlined in the dossier by that particular source do seem to be very well borne out. people put too much on the video, as if that's what the dossier is about. but that's the least significant part from my point of view. >> let's bring in ken dilanian. see, ken, i got all flustered because you shaped my thinking on this all week, you said ignore the sex, follow the money, but it seems we have

branded this dossier since january in a way that almost discredits it more than that it deserved. when i -- i know our network is overly cautious for many, many reasons, but unsubstantiated didn't mean the contents in the dossier were untrue. it meant that they hadn't all been investigated. so explain to me the meaning of a ten hour testimony from the -- from one of the people behind the dossier and the potential stakes for this white house if 10, 20, 30% of the contents of the dossier turn out to be true. >> well, you're absolutely right, nicolle. first of all, like the main -- one of the main claims of the dossier was that the russians were involved in a plot to hack the election on behalf of donald trump and that was written before the intelligence community in the united states had made that public. that has been borne out, at least if you accept the findings of the intelligence community. there are other parts of it we

call unverified because they make very serious allegations against the president of the united states and his campaign. it's the dossier flatly alleges that the russians were in a conspiracy of cooperation with the trump campaign. to influence the election. that has not been proven. that's not been verified. >> but it's being investigated, right? isn't that the essence of the mueller robe? >> absolutely. it forms the core of the mueller probe and in significance of glenn simpson, he testified in a than scribed interview that looks like it will be made public, well, i believe the fbi probably has very little to learn from mr. simpson's testimony at this point. they have got all of his information. because they were working with his partner christopher steele for many months the former british author, but the public doesn't have that information. who knows -- in ten hours of testimony what other allegations mr. simpson laid out and evidence to substantiate the

allegations that have not been made public in the dossier. for this document to become public will have a significant influence on how the whole investigation is viewed. >> let me ask you a quick last question. when the dossier itself went public in january, the president of the united states was justifiably irate and it set off a day's long war of words between the president, the white house and the media outlets that published it and even the ones that simply mentioned its existence. it came into the news because jim comey had stayed behind in the first briefing simply to tell the president of its existence and probably what you're talking about that the fbi had it in their hands and they have investigating it -- they were investigating it independently. talk about how red hot the contents of that dossier would be to this white house. >> it is remarkable. i mean, i can remember, you know, when it was first revealed and going on the air and talking about it.

we were so careful because it was so explosive and hard to believe frankly. we have come a long way really. i mean, in terms of -- you're getting used to the idea not that necessarily that these things are true. but that they are the subject of this active fbi investigation and congressional investigation and, you know, that -- and it's come to consume part of the trump presidency. and that is -- that may explain why donald trump reacted so viscerally the way he did at the time and, you know, it's certainly come to pass this is bedevilling his presidency. >> ken dilanian, thank you so much for carving out some time for us. up next, the recent developments about russia may be getting to the president. it's the driving force behind his anger with mitch mcconnell and other members of his own party.

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colleagues, bret stephens. what do you know about glenn who testified for ten hows and work on the dossier? >> i think the white house and the president should be terrified. glenn is a serious capable journalist, he's not partisan. i don't think he has -- if he has politics i'm not aware of them. but he's a very careful researcher and so whatever he has put together, and whatever he's testified to is going to be true. >> let's stitch this together for our viewers. you know him because glenn simpson the man who testified for ten hours -- >> he was a reporter at "the wall street journal" where i worked for many years. >> then he went into private practice. obviously as an investigator for clients. >> because the things you bring as a journalist can be brought -- >> as an journalist -- >> he's an excellent journalist. i don't me if he won a pulitzer

but you wouldn't be surprised to learn he has. he was a top flight investigative journalist at "the wall street journal." whatever he's testifying to this is not a fly by night operation that is impugning the president. this is something that should scare the white house and i'm repeating myself. >> i think you can kind of see that in the length of this testimony, ten hours to put it in context, jared kushner who was -- he testified in front of a different senate committee, but he was there for the morning. and the number of documents turned over. 40,000 documents. the trump campaign has turned over 20,000 documents. so this guy who wrote the dossier has turned over twice as many documents as the entire trump campaign with all the e-mails and schedules and related documents so that really got my antenna up. >> i'd be careful about it. he's an excellent journalist. we were discussing it during the break that the stuff in "the new york times" and washington

journal every day has a higher degree of reliability probably than this. but this unsubstantiated, raw intelligence. the fact he's there for ten hours has more to do with the guys asking him questions than what he has to say. i think having the american public look at the intelligence stuff that isn't vetted, you know, they should decide about what should be released. it shouldn't be released wholesale. >> well, i mean it -- listen, i think that ship has sailed. i think that's what -- why the white house was so upset. >> we have to make distinctions between what's journalism and what are intelligence products. there's never certainty. when most reputable newspapers put stuff in print there's always an extremely high level of certainty for all of the obvious libel risks and so on. so he's presenting -- he's an intelligence document, to say

something is unsubstantiated does not mean it's not try. >> and it might mean it doesn't have a high degree of reliability. it may have medium or low reliability. i don't know how regular people can suss out -- >> i guess the only thing here was that this was dismissed as untrue. i think bret's point it was never untrue, it wasn't corroborated to a point where -- and because it involved so many international figures, crime figures, people that trafficked in other sordid industries if you will. it was probably a product difficult to substantiate. i guess to me the tell is that an -- the judiciary committee spent ten hours with the man doing the investigating. >> yeah. that's true. so when does the president -- >> go ahead, gene. >> yeah, when does the president start tweeting at chuck grassley not to release the testimony? i mean, that should come any minute now i would imagine. >> tomorrow morning at 9:00. i told he skipped sunrise yoga, he doesn't calf anate fully and

he doesn't reach for his glasses, he starts tweeting. gene, weigh in on this for us. >> well, he was long a reputa e reputable, a highly respected journalist as bret says. so it's probably the -- you know, what he testified to, what he reported is probably pretty good. now again we don't know, we haven't seen the testimony. it's probably in much greater detail than what's in the dossier. maybe some of the backing up -- some of the backup information was discussed. and again it may not be true. but he's a good reporter. >> and then i cut you off, but philip bump what i want to know from you, put this under the umbrella of the entire russia investigation because it's what's pulling at these relationships on capitol hill. we know that the front page story in "the new york times" this week about the blowup with mitch mcconnell at its core what

peeved trump was that mitch mcconnell didn't have his back and what cost comey his job he didn't like the way he was investigating russia. and jeff sessions, what got his ire was russia. >> the number one thing that donald trump should want is a stack on his desk of completed reports from robert mueller and the house and the senate saying you're exonerated. that's not what he's getting and the great irony that only struck me this afternoon what is happening to donald trump on russia is what happened to hillary clinton on e-mails last year. every day was something new day after day. it's hard to escape the fact that it's sort of predictable. >> wow. i have never seen the two things tied together, hillary clinton and e-mails and donald trump on russia. the fight over keeping the government open that comes back to that wall. what ever happened to mexico paying for it?

so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open.

this is something the president is committed to. he's committed to protecting american lives and doing that through the border wall is something that's important. it's a priority and we're moving forward with it. >> but he's not saying that mexico is going to pay for it. >> he hasn't said they're not either. >> he hasn't said they're not, but i mean, but mexico has said they're not, brett. >> mexico -- look, what's amazing to me, though, is the

president of the united states is threatening his own party with a shut down of government? i mean, i'm almost tempted to say that paul ryan and mitch mcconnell should say, yeah, let's do that. we'll shut down the government and by the way, we won't send out social security checks on time and see who benefits from that one politically. >> he thinks that ryan and mcconnell will lose. that's the gamble. that's what his advisers are telling them. >> eugene, should ryan and mcconnell -- it just cracks me up. my brain fast enough. should they call his bluff as brett suggests? >> probably not because they will get hurt. they will. i mean, he'll get hurt too, but they'll get hurt. >> should everyone put aside their political prerogatives and try to do right by the policy and by the country? i mean, might that get the president's attention. fine, we'll go down, we'll go out, but we're not going to let

you play these games. this seems like an abuse cycle. >> i think they should do what you say. they should pass -- they should pass funding bills. they should pass a debt ceiling increase. they should do what they have to do. and if he doesn't want to sign it, then fine. but they should do the peoples' business. i think that's what in their interest. >> what are the odds? game this out for me. you've now got the white house press secretary doing her best sort of seinfeldesque, you know, mexico is not going to pay, yeah, but they might. if they don't. i don't even know what she's saying. >> what do you think? >> well, i think the meanest thing a cable host can do is ask someone what donald trump will do. all of this aside, do i think a shutdown is possible, sure. this is a really unpopular thick. fox news polled on this in may. 30% of americans wanted him to build this wall.

30% of republicans thought he shouldn't do it. i don't know why he's doing it. >> you know what he's doing? he's practicing kind of negative triangulation. remember bill clinton, i'm going to -- he's triangulating against his own party. >> he's triangulating against himself. >> against himself -- >> well, let's diagram that. listen, he's got fox -- >> there's like a triangle. kim was in between left and right -- >> the base wants that wall. >> and the triangle is the breitbart. >> security. they think that that is a long-term solution to security. that base wants that wall. and so it's just another play to the base. is that smart long-term playing to the base? well, i mean, we're three years out from an election, so. >> it's -- >> i'm sorry. go ahead, gene. >> the wall is part of his brand. >> that's right. >> what has donald trump been good at in his career? early in his career he was -- he built trump tower. that was an achievement. but as a real estate developer

his atlantic city adventure was a fee as co. it almost went bust and he got bailed out. but what he's really good at is branding. and he became turn the trump organization into a branding company. and this is part of his brand. he thinks he really knows how to do this, and so he won't give it up. >> brett, do you think he could just put his name on the wall? because there is a wall across most of the border. >> you know what gene said is so right. and also, this is a guy who you sense is most alive when he is kmung with his crowds as he was in arizona the other night. and for them, the wall is literally toe tanic. and he senses that he's sort of most alive at those moments. so he is going to come back to these troeps. what i would wish to see a paul ryan or a mitch mcconnell say is we're not going to build a wall and here is why. it would be amazing to see the republican party adopt some of the courage that we've seen in a

handful of people like jeff flake. >> right. >> and say this wall is a really stupid idea on many many levels -- >> it's like the american president, the crime bill. right, and it's a border wall that has no chance of ending illegal immigration. >> i'm going to make a prediction now. it just occurred to me this may be his repeal and replace. he's fine with not having passed so that he can hammer everyone on it over the next four years about how the wall didn't get built. >> we're going to sneak in one more break. we'll be right back. muscles, a. highly digestible, and a taste he loves, all in one. purina one smartblend is expertly blended... with 100% nutrition, 0% fillers, always real meat #1. lifelong smart nutrition. it's all in one. purina one.

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(gasp) (singsong) budget meeting! sweet. if you compare last quarter to this quarter... various: mmm. it's no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with fresh milk and real cream. we are looking at a live radar picture of hurricane

harvey. brett stevens, hurricanes and presidents. >> hurricanes and republicans, i should say. hurricane andrew, devastating to george h.w. bush because of the perception of the bad botched response. hurricane katrina in 20005 ship wrecked bush's second term and don't forget sandy and mitt romney. so trump ought to watch out. >> and obviously the politics of distance. our thoughts and prayers for safety to everybody in the zone. my thanks to everyone. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. >> hi, nicolle. and if it is thursday, new threats from the president against the gop. tonight, the president versus his own party. >> i think the relationships are fine. certainly there are going to be some policy differences. >> who would america blame if the government shuts down. >> it's really important that the president succeeds because it he