now. we should be talking about response. how many people have been rescued, how many need to be rescued. how much resource do we give people and save their lives. everything is not about money. it is for trump, but it isn't for the rest of america. >> clint, elise, eddy, anita, thank you very much for joining us. that does it for this hour. i'm mike barnicle. mpt daily starts right now. chuck, how are you? >> mikie! >> i know you're a big baseball fan. i don't know about you. even i'm ready to root for the astros. >> absolutely. >> everybody should be rooting for them. >> if it's tuesday, the president faces a catastrophe at home and some crises abroad. >> president trump visits the storm zone in texas, as the path of devastation moves towards louisiana. >> you know what, it happened in texas, and texas can handle anything. plus, north korea tests the president's resolve. how will the u.s. respond to the

ballistic missiles launched over japan? >> we'll see. >> and catching up on the new developments in the russia probe. this is "mtb daily" and it starts right now. good evening, and welcome to "mpt daily" i'm chuck todd in washington. president trump is wrapping up his trip to texas at this hour while heavy rain and devastating flooding continue to pummel houston and the surrounding areas. we have spoken again and again about what will happen when president trump is really test and had is now in, guess what, as now he's facing crises on three fronts, and the training wheels are officially off. and these crises are not of his own making. first and foremost, harvey. it's up to the white house to not only monitor and assist in the ongoing disaster which seems likely to get worse before better, and president trump will face a legacy, a defining task, if you will, rebuilding

america's fourth-largest city, something he actually spoke about on the ground today. >> we won't say congratulations. we don't want to do that. we don't want to congratulate. we'll congratulate each other when we're all finished. >> i will tell you, this is historic, this is epic, it's happened, but you know what, it happened in texas, and texas can handle anything. thank you all, folks. thank you. >> there's never been anything so expensive in our country's history. there's never been anything so historic in terms of damage and in terms of ferocity. >> folks, don't forget. this is why being president is so hard. because it's not just texas on the president's plate. while the white house has been fittingly occupied with a natural disaster, there's also a man made disaster to deal with called north korea. who launched another missile test overnight. this one in the direction of japan, a key u.s. ally. the president said today in a statement that all options are on the table to deal with north korea. and, of course, there's also a crisis of the president's own making, and that's the russia

investigation. we've had multiple revelations on the russia front just in the past two days, including the trump's business associates in the midst of a presidential campaign were actively trying to make deals in moscow. we're going to dig deeper into both north korea and russia later in the show. but folks, these crises will define the weeks and months to come for this white house, and this presidency is going to get defined by rebuilding houston. for the time being. and rebuilding houston will now be a constant part of this president's agenda for the remainder of this term. the rain is still falling and not letting up any time soon. this tropical storm has now broken the record for the most rain of any storm in the continental united states. ever. 50 inches of rain have fallen through today. this storm is turning a huge diverse and sprawling city into one that looks more like a large body of muggy water, and a series of small islands. just look at these before and after pictures. nbc news has confirmed five deaths so far, including a

houston police officer who had been missing since early sunday morning. sergeant steve perez drown trying to get to work and his body was recovered this morning. >> once our dive team got there, it was too treacherous to go under and look for him, so we made a decision to leave officers there waiting until the morning, because as much as we wanted to recover him last night, we could not put more officers at risk. >> tough choices for first responders. two reservoirs built to protect downtown houston from catastrophic flooding like this have both overflowed. meantime, search and rescue missions continue at this hour. houston's mayor says officials are still trying to assess how many people are missing and houston police tell us more than 3,500 people have been rescued so far. >> this is a storm of historic proportions. not just to the city of houston. and not just to the harris county, but to the entire region. >> all the flooding i've seen in

all the years, this is the craziest thing i've ever seen. >> reporter: how difficult is this for you right now? >> devastating. i mean, it's really hard. i mean, you know, i -- i just was in such denial. i didn't put anything up. i didn't grab anything. >> i thought i was going to die. i felt like this was the last day i was going to live. the last day i was going to see my son. last day i was going to breathe. i felt like this was the end. >> as we got closer, we realized that it was a body. and instantly we thought it was just a floating body. but, you know, instinct set in. the other two guys jumped off the boat. grabbed her, pulled her up out of the current and started to resuscitate her as i'm in the boat. >> so many stories like this. houston's mayor says there are now more than 9,200 housed in the convention center there. the red cross says 17,000 are in shelters across the state of

texas. as we said, president trump visited texas today, and the governor of texas, greg abbott, strong supporter of the president, is praising the federal response. >> what i've learned is, we can count on the president of the united states and his staff for helping texas. >> governor abbott activated the full texas national guard, which means roughly 12,000 guardsmen and women are now helping to assist in search and rescue. let's go now to meteorologist steve sosna in our new york studio. two basic questions. one, when does the rain stop, and two, where is harvey going? >> those are good questions, chuck. normally you would expect after a day or so of a hurricane, this is now a four-day scenario unfolding. let's take a look at this tweet that the national weather service in houston posted. and this is just really hard to kind of wrap your mind around. 6 million texans were impacted by this 30 inches of rain or

more. think about that. 6 million people. and it's really the images. this is a wendy's sign and dr. marshal shepard from the weather channel tweeted this out. that water is up to the bottom of the wendy's sign, so it's really the images that help you comprehend the numbers we have been seeing. and i have new numbers for you. let's take a look at the radar for you right now. you asked when will the rain end. and i think the rain will be coming to an end here shortly in houston. but, again, the problems -- >> shortly. >> within the next couple hours. >> that's a big deal if that's shortly. >> we said it was going to be slow, chuck. but beaumont, you know, you still are probably in the rainfall through tonight. and, again, by tomorrow, we should see some drastic improvements. but the sky cover, the rivers and bayous are a different story. this is a whole new number for you, chuck. the new record rainfall amount. this came out with the 5:00 p.m. advisory from the hurricane center. 51.88 inches of rain. a lot of people didn't think 50 inches would happen.

there it is. it was measured in highlands, texas, at 3:00 this afternoon. and, again, in some places it's still raining. the previous record was 48 inches, and that was from a weak tropical storm, amelia, back in 1978. this was a category 4 as it came onshore. >> latest stats of harvey, we want to get rid of it, right? the winds up over 5 miles per hour. i don't think you need to worry about much more strengthening. its life span over water is going to be running out here very quickly as it moves over land, and that will be the eventual decay of harvey and we can finally put this storm -- >> is it actually going to move? >> yes! >> it's actually going to do what these hurricanes have done in the past, go on to land, make its way towards the east coast and dissipate? >> it's would goeling, like i said. it's more than a walk, not quite a jog. but eventually will accelerate. the rain you see in the northeast saturday night and sunday will be part of harvey's remains. now, you have to remember, we're getting into the peak of hurricane season here. it's 12 days away.

the noaa prediction upped to 14 to 19 storms. we're on storm number eight and we are tracking a couple in the atlantic here. we have one in the gulf of mexico potential early next week, we have to keep a close eye on that. and this system that will be tracking for the next ten days, with the hurricane center giving it a 90% probability development. and it's a problem down the road. but at least for now we have to deal with harvey. >> as an amateur hurricane meteorologist, as all of us south floridans are, i've been watching that one. that one scares me. steve, thank you very much. moments ago, the president toured the emergency operation center in austin, and spoke to the team working there. here's the tape. >> showing tremendous love and coordination and so many things are coming out in texas. and i will tell you, the whole country, the whole world, is really seeing and gaining such respect for everybody. and the job you have done is

incredible. what you've done is under circumstances -- i said before, the word epic and historic. these are words used to describe this monster known as harvey. but the job you've done is really special. >> let me bring in dan balz, chief correspondent for the "washington post." ms. contributor, and jennifer reuben, from the right turn blog. welcome to you all. dan, as i said at the start, now the training wheels are off. there's no -- we've been wondering, how is he going to handle his first crisis with this. and, you know -- this is going to define his presidency among -- i mean, this will be one of the tent poles of his presidency. managing the rebuilding of houston, texas. >> which is an enormously long and hard job. what he's done so far, i think people have said is very effective. he's done what a president ought -- >> in this case, cheer lead, people feel better. >> he's gone to the right place and not to the wrong place.

he's not gotten in the way. he's done well. but we know from history of these storms that once the water recedes and people are back trying to rebuild and they are dealing with the bureaucracy and dealing with shortage of money and they are dealing with a government that may or may not be moving as quickly as they want, then the test comes as to how well the government can manage. now, the one advantage that they have is in comparison to katrina, where state and local governments were dysfunctional. and the president, president bush's response initially was inadequate. here you seem to have all three levels of government working reasonably well together. that's a big benefit for him. >> you've got to think, jennifer and maria, that everybody learned some lessons from katrina. because it feels -- i'll be honest. every one of these disasters has been better coordination, state, local and federal going down the road since katrina. >> absolutely. and what we also learned from katrina, we're seeing again here, is how events can change

the entire course of a presidency. a week ago, we were talking about tax cuts and the debt limit and building the wall. now we're talking about building an entire city. and that may actually be fortunate for the president, becau because he wasn't exactly on a roll before. and these are things that perhaps republicans, democrats can rally together. it's a lot easier to get support for a rebuilding than it is for that wall that was going to be trouble for him. >> it's interesting, maria. we were all bracing ourselves for a september to remember in a bad way, i think, for where congress was going to go. we may be over -- maybe we're being too -- maybe we're assuming too many things. but i think the power of all those texas members who are in the purse strings who control the purse strings in congress -- it's not just a large delegation. it's a large delegation with power. the chairman of the ways and means. chairman of budget. number two in the u.s. senate. they can get the money. this could mean a much smoother washington, for at least a month. >> it could almost mean that

mitch mcconnell is all of a sudden going to be the hero of the senate and being able to basically coordinate having a conversation -- >> now you're really -- >> no, really. coordinating this idea of not having to actually go toe-to-toe with the president on the debt ceiling, for example. actually having had conversations -- >> and we know where the debt ceiling is going to go, harvey money. >> exactly. this all of a sudden gives mitch mcconnell the opportunity to bring in republicans and make sure they are on the same side. you're going to have less discussion on spending cuts. less discussion on what historically would happen when it comes to republican party. >> it also gives the white house a chance to step down without getting embarrassed. trump has been fixated on still going back to doing health care, for goodness sakes. >> or that border wall fight. >> exactly. so now he has a graceful way out. >> okay. but dan, can he walk and chew gum on this one? and i thought about what happened with north korea last night, and you say to yourself, okay, now we're really going to test this guy. how is he going to handle the saber rattling over here while at the same time he's got to manage this crisis? >> well, it's two different kinds of crises, obviously.

and, you know, most of what he's done in north korea has been to, you know, rattle sabres and look for kind of a happy ending. the provocativeness of what they did yesterday with that missile puts it in, again, a different place. i don't know whether this will be able to change the course of what the administration is trying to do. but in one way or another, it puts him under the watchful eye of everybody while he's got to do the other. now, most administrations can do two or three or four things at once. there is some compartmentalization, even if there is criticism. but the lack of kind of -- the lack of attention span that this president has demonstrated raises some questions about whether he'll be able to really do that effectively. >> let's be realistic here. had it not been for harvey, there's no doubt in my mind the president is tweeting about the various russia stories that have broken in the last two days. >> yes.

>> and probably very aggressive tweeting. >> correct. >> in some form or another. obviously, he's not doing that now. so maybe it's having -- even if it has that kind of impact. >> exactly. now, in terms of north korea, he's also fortunate in that he now has essentially three generals surrounding him. he's got kelly, mcmaster and he's got mattis. so those are competent people who, frankly, i think are probably relieved that he's not also focused on north korea. that he is not coming out with fire and fury tweets and speaking, as well. so let the foreign policy professionals proceed. we hope they have a game plan in mind. but it's going to be a lot less dramatic, shall we say, without trump. so there are lots of ways in which i think his staff, is probably pleased. >> let me play devil's advocate. how many times have we thought this? this will be the time this changes this behavior, and maybe this does change everything. this is -- >> it's the fourth-largest city

of a state that he needs to care about. >> we don't have people alive in our families that remember something this devastating to a city, okay? i mean, we're talking like the johnstown floods type of thing. so maybe it could change everything. but we have been in these places before with him. >> but i think that what may be the difference here, he does like this idea of being the cheerleader. he does like this idea of being savior, and he's very comfortable much more on the domestic stage than on the international stage. >> he's a real estate developer. he should enjoy redeveloping a city. he will be into this. >> this is something that i think is up in his wheelhouse, that he understands, so he don't have to create diversion of stuff he doesn't understand, allowing tillerson to do his job and mattis to do his job and stop poking north korea and china at the same time, right? so i think this actually gives him a space. >> it does give him an opportunity, but i also think, given what he has done in the first months of his presidency, he has -- he has built up such divisions within the country that it is going to be hard to

change minds of those people who have been offended by the way he's governed. so it's going to take a lot, even if he's -- >> no -- >> extremely successful with this piece -- >> i do hope he recognizes what america looks like. the fact that the leadership in houston is multiracial, coming to the aids of americans, that volunteers are saying i'm going to rescue you, regardless of who you are or what you may believe in. hopefully that's his take-away when he walks out -- >> i have to say, it is amazing. i feel like we're almost putting so much pressure on the folks in houston, because we're all going, isn't this great, people are working together. oh, my god, look, one person from this ethnic group helped this person. and that shouldn't be news. we are putting this pressure that houston is going to somehow bring us all together. >> nonetheless, it's been impressive. it has been remarkably impressive. >> and a reminder of what we can be. anyway. stick around, we're going to continue to monitor the situation out of texas. we'll bring you any new information as we get it. still ahead, how will the president respond to north

korea's newest provocation. we'll talk to the former ambassador to south korea, cris hill. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ you don't let anything lkeep you sidelined. come on! that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein, and 26 vitamins and minerals... for the strength and energy, to get back to doing what you love. ensure, always be you. rethink your allergy pills. flonase sensimist allergy relief helps block 6 key inflammatory substances with a gentle mist.

most allergy pills only block one. and 6 is greater than one. flonase sensimist.

welcome back. the pictures out of texas are tough to watch at times. some people have lost everything. floodwaters in and around the houston area continue to rise. thousands are displaced from their homes and in need of aid. and here are just a few organizations helping in the relief effort and how to get involved. there's feeding texas. they are helping a series of food banks in the area to get up to speed to meet the increased need after harvey. you can donate to them, feeding texas.org. the crowdsourcing website, global giving, halfway to their $2 million goal for funding first responders. the texas diaper bank is sending relief kits to babies, young kids, elderly and disabled. they set an original goal of $20,000 but after a massive boost on social media, they brought in more than $1 million.

and finally, if you have your phone handy and probably do, text harvey to 90999 to chip in $10 to the american red cross, helping to stock the storm shelters. there are obviously many more relief organizations worthy of your support. we have those organizations and contact sites at nbcnews.com. obviously, every bit helps. remember what houston did after katrina. that's all i want to keep in mind. not to say they wouldn't have done it otherwise. but think about that. this is a city of residents that gave and hosted when was needed during katrina. it's all our turn to help them in their time of need, as well. we'll be back with more on "mtp daily" after this.

it's unacceptable. they have violated every single u.n. security council resolution that we have had. and so i think something serious has to happen. enough is enough. >> what is that enough is enough, though. welcome back. tonight the white house is weighing its response to north korea's latest unprecedented

provocation, saying all options are on the table. late today, the defense department confirmed that north korea, the projectile they had that was launched while we were on the air yesterday was an intermediate range ballistic missile. flew over the territory of northern japan before hitting the pacific ocean. it's the same place u.s. marines and japanese forces had just wrapped up 18 days of joint exercises. so obviously, no coincidence. the japanese prime minister abe, and president trump spoke for 40 minutes by phone shortly after the launch, and south korea, which is currently conducting annual defensive military drills with the united states, flexed their retaliatory capability, as south korean fighter jets dropped bombs over a military field on their own eastern coast as a show of force. the government also released footage of their own missile tests from last week. so what is the potential responses necessary? cris hill joins me now. ambassador, we have been around and around and around on all of

this stuff. i think everybody is familiar with the challenges of north korea. and of the various sort of bad options that we have. but this was an escalation. this was an escalation after a u.s. warning. now what? >> well, this indeed was an escalation. i mean, we notice we got the scripted president trump, where it was a released statement. and he said things that, frankly, president obama, george w. bush, bill clinton, have all said. that this will increase their isolation, et cetera, et cetera. but the real question, what are we going to do about this. i mean, by flying this missile right over japan, this is obviously a test, not only of the flight path of the missile, but of the u.s./japan resolve. one of the big questions, of course, is if they thought it was better to fly over japan than guam, are they basically saying that the u.s. would react more vigorously to a fly-by of guam than of japan? so i think the president really needs some reassuring to give to

the japanese. but i think the basic calculation remains the same. it is very hard to launch any kind of preemptive strike without the south korean government being a part of it. and without essentially putting 20 million south koreans in bomb shelters. >> and so basically, steve bannon was right when he in the last days of his -- when he wrote -- where he said in an interview with the american prospect, until somebody solves part of the equation that shows me that 10 million people in seoul don't die, i don't know what you're talking about. there is no military solution here. they got us. is he right? >> well, you know, he's got a point. does he have to say that? i think he kind of lives his life with the idea he has to say things that are not helpful, and not well-received. so there you have it. i think n, in fact, we do have some options. i think it has to do with trying to sabotage their program. i think it has to do with a real deep dive with the chinese and

not this kind of notion that, gee, if you take care of this, we'll help you out on our bilateral trade account. i think it requires, you know, kind of close-in relationship with the south koreans, a lot more of this anti ballistic missile system. but really, frankly, we've got to be doing things to show the north koreans that we can come after them and come after them big-time. and ironically, it was the south koreans who just did that with bunker-busting bombs that were frankly right on target. >> yeah. i was -- explain to me, though -- it was interesting that the south koreans, because they have been more dovish. they have not been happy with the rhetoric, the new leadership. and it was i guess a bit surprising because it came from the new leadership. but they did bomb their own part of -- it was an interesting way to show force. explain that a little bit. >> well, i mean, they were demonstrating a capacity to use their f-15s. highly capable u.s.-made

aircraft. and using these 2,000-pound bombs that are able to go into cement. and, i mean, one of the big challenges any military person will talk about in north korea is that they have deep tunnels. i mean, can go under the subway system in pyongyang as i've done without a sense you're going three times deeper than dupont circle. so they are very serious about digging. so we need to show we are serious about going deep after them. so i think the south korean military has really wanted to show the north korean fos for a long time. they have a government not inclined in that direction. but frankly, i think the north koreans are ironically kind of unifying everybody, and everyone is kind of getting sick and tired of them. so let's see how this plays out, and i just hope our president can refrain from sounding like a north korean, in which case you create all kinds of problems as he did a couple of weeks ago. which is why our poor secretary of state had to get up there and

talk about, gee, i think now is the time for negotiation with north korea. when, frankly, it wasn't, but he had to reassure audiences and asia that we would keep the door open to negotiation. >> what is -- i understand there could be some logistical down side, but i know that it has been debated about one way to show the north koreans business is to shoot down one of their missiles when they test it. and i know it gets debated every now and then. and the decision always is, nah, better not to get involved. better not to do it. is there a moment where that becomes, no, let's show them how good our technology really is, to prove to them this is a waste of their time? >> well, you know, obviously, if we did it and it didn't work, that would be a huge moment. so i think that weighs on people's minds. but, you know, if we did it, and it worked, and we didn't think the north koreans were going to learn a lot from our test where they would monitor our anti

ballistic missile, you know, i think it's kind of time the north koreans understood that, you know, we can play this game too. so it may be one of those bad ideas whose time has come. but i would certainly want to make -- >> i've heard it -- >> make sure it works. >> in fairness, when i've talked to -- it is on their list of, well, here are the various bad options we have, and this is one of them. and you're not the first person that goes, well, maybe now is the time. >> yeah. i mean, they think they can just put these things up in the air whenever they feel like it, whether it's anniversary date or a mother's day resolution, whatever. there's -- in a sense, they're having fun. in another sense, it's a deadly serious thing they're trying to do, which is try to kind of decouple the u.s. from our allies there by showing everybody they can hit these allies in a moment's notice. and by the way, if the u.s. were to retaliate, they would hit us too. so they have a pretty serious

approach to this. and i think we may have to step up our game. i really think we have to have much more serious discussion with china besides the idea, gee, you help us out there and we'll help you out here and that kind of thing. >> all right. ambassador cris hill, former ambassador to south korea. appreciate you coming on. talking about this never-ending crisis, it feels like these days. thank you, sir. speaking of crises, another one facing our president, this one entirely of his own making. we'll get the latest developments on the russia probe that president trump obviously can't seem to shake. we'll be right back. your eyes work as hard as you do. but do they need help making more of their own tears? if you have chronic dry eye caused by reduced tear production due to inflammation, restasis multidose™ can help... with continued use twice a day, every day, one drop at a time. restasis multidose™

helps increase your eyes' natural ability to produce tears, which may be reduced by inflammation due to chronic dry eye. restasis multidose™ did not increase tear production in patients using anti-inflammatory eye drops or tear duct plugs. to help avoid eye injury and contamination, do not touch the bottle tip to your eye or other surfaces. wait 15 minutes after use before inserting contact lenses. the most common side effect is a temporary burning sensation. your eyes. your tears. ask your eye doctor about restasis multidose™.

as rescues continue in the floodwaters of texas, many are questioning if houston should have been evacuated before the storm. in this week's edition of 1947, "meet the press" podcast, i talk about the decision to shelter in place. my guest is bill king, and head of a study that investigated e fallout from hurricane rita. still ahead, big names are making a big impact. we had stocks closing higher as wall street shook off tensions with north korea. the dow gained 57 points. the s&p up 2. the nasdaq finished 19 points higher. u.s. home prices jumped in june. the standard & poor's kay shiller sent the home price

index rose 5.7% higher last month. crude prices fell again, and gasoline prices are surging as the gulf coast grapples with the aftermath of harvey. refineries forced to shut down, disrupting fuel production in the heart of america's oil country. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.

welcome back. we just learned that the senate judiciary committee and donald trump jr. have agreed to a date for him to be interviewed behind closed doors in connection with the russia investigation. we don't know what that date is yet, though. but we do know he's going to do this. this comes as nbc news reports special counsel robert mueller is looking into president trump made a knowingly false statement about that june 2016 trump tower meeting between russians and his son, donald trump jr. meanwhile, both the "new york times" and "washington post" report the trump organization was looking into a potential trump tower in moscow while donald trump was running for

president. felix solder, to trump lawyer michael cohen, in which he boasts about his ties to putin and played up the political benefits of making a deal in moscow. he wrote, quote, our boy can become president of the usa, and we can engineer it. i will get all of putin's team to buy in on this. i will manage this process. the "washington post" reported he sent an e-mail to his personal secretary asking for help to advance these stalled trump tower moscow project. cohen said it shouldn't be surprising the trump organization was trying to make international deals and he abandoned the russia deal after he lost confidence in the project. joining me now is national security reporter, kendell any. it felt like over the last five days, there's a lot of developments in various parts of the russia investigation. i want to start with the nbc news reporting first that the president -- we know he worked on some or part of the donald trump jr. statement, the original e-mail when he met with russians that claim that they

were going to be able to help. we don't know on what. there's a lot. but they claim to have damaging information, donald trump jr. took the meeting. president was on his way back from an overseas visit. "new york times" reported that day he basically helped through the statement. they have since backed off. this is now under investigation. explain under what context. >> so what my colleagues on the investigative team are reporting is that mueller is very interested in why donald trump took the time and the interest to dictate this statement on behalf of his son. it turned out to be misleading. he said that -- the statement said they discussed a program of russian adoptions. that really wasn't at all what they discussed. i mean, there's some tangential relationship to adoptions but it was really about sanctions. the russians were there to talk about lifting sanctions. and it's not a crime for the president of the understand to lie to the american public. but it does show to the mueller people, according to legal experts i've spoken to, potentially a consciousness of guilt. >> so does this -- so does this mean mueller is working on an

obstruction of justice charge and using this as evidence to support, like, look, while he didn't obstruct justice with this statement, the firing of comey, this is more evidence that there was an intent here to at least cover something up. >> that's possible. and it's also -- because he certainly is investigating the president for obstruction of justice. it's also possible it's not related to that, and it's related to what was it about this meeting that the president and other people wanted to cover up. because this meeting, after all, goes to the heart of the whole enterprise. as you said, it was taken with a promise of help from the russian government. and we know that the muellers seem very interested in what other meetings were taken. why were they so willing to meet with these russians. >> there are so many things that get conflated at times. now i want to separate trump/moscow. because the idea of a trump tower in moscow and satter and michael cohen. look, their statements make it seem as if there was collusion over here, these guys didn't seem to know it.

does that make sense? i'm reading this sater story and thinking, okay, these guys certainly wanted a deal. >> yeah. >> if there was collusion, why didn't they get the deal? so i don't -- like, in a way, is their failure to get the deal at least proof of at least michael cohen's innocence or something like that? do you see where i'm going here? >> i absolutely do. but it feels like there is a lot we don't know about why that deal didn't go through. first of all, it's just -- in any other situation, for any major party candidate to be doing a deal with the adversary of the u.s. and in mouscow. >> that in itself certainly could be -- maybe not a technical legal violation, but certainly an offense that maybe our politics couldn't handle. >> exactly. just inconceivable. and so was there time where trump suddenly realized he was competitive and this was not tenable any more? just the idea of this going on, while donald trump is saying he had no deals with russia, no potential, no actual, and who we're talking about here, this guy felix sater, is a convicted

criminal, you know, who was involved in a stock swindle and cooped with the justice department for years. cooperated -- >> can i just say, if you read felix sater's resume, if you will, unofficial resume, he comes across like a guy in, like -- "get shorty." you know, some he will more leonard character who is always on like shady deals here, shady deals there. >> yeah, you can't make this stuff up. and don't forget, donald trump said i wouldn't know him if he walked in the room. and michael cohen's statements implicated the president in knowledge of this deal. >> i guess it's part of the same pattern which is there is always -- when it comes to russia, we never know the full story the first time. there is always -- you always have to pull more out of them. >> and that is very telling. because, you know, unlike the clint team and their scandals, where lanny davis said let's get it all out, release everything, the trump team clearly is not taking that approach. where every week we're learning new details about new meetings, new involvement with russia. >> but think they would put all

of these russian meetings out. like when they decided to do the donald trump e-mails. >> yes. >> get it all out, because when you let it drip, it looks even worse. >> it absolutely does. and that's what mueller is looking at. >> interesting. it's hard to keep track of all of that. but i appreciate you trying. >> thanks, chuck. >> thanks for coming on. coming up next hour, there's a special investigative report. could president trump use pardons to end the prosecution of all crimes related to russia's election meddling? the answer could surprise you. i can't give it away here. you've got to wait until 6:02. we'll be right back. ♪ when heartburn hits fight back fast with tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum tums chewy bites.

welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with helping and giving. every little bit helps in a tragedy like this. but to be totally honest, the big bits can always help even more and faster. so some well-known folks have been pitching in. george w. bush and first lady laura bush say they're donating to relief organizations on the ground in texas and asking others to join them. apple's ceo donating to the red cross. walgreens $200,000 to the red cross and food and medical items. beyonce says she is working with her team to help as many people as possible. i guess you could see a relief concert. the kardashians donating half a million dollars to the red cross and salvation army. the houston astros will donate $4 million. and the texas rangers are donating ralph proceeds from this weekend's games to the red

cross. houston texans' star jj watt has already pledged $100,000 and asked others to donate, as well. his campaign has already raised more than $1 million. kevin hart is also calling on fellow celebrities to match his $25,000 donation. duane the rock, ellen degeneres, cher, you name t. an exhaustive list of people who are giving. we just wanted to make sure this is just the beginning, and that people, both famous and not, who can afford to donate donate. donate, donate. there's some wealthy folks in government these days. many of them from texas. i think kevin hart said it best. >> let's all donate. let's help. let's really, really try to save some lives. e wildcats 'til we die weekenders. the watch me let if fly. this i gotta try weekenders. then we've got the bendy... ... spendy weekenders. the tranquility awaits. hanging with our mates weekenders and the it's been quite a day... ...so glad we got away weekenders.

whatever kind of weekender you are, there's a hilton for you. book your weekend break direct at hilton.com and join the weekenders. you don't let anything lkeep you sidelined. come on! that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein, and 26 vitamins and minerals... for the strength and energy, to get back to doing what you love. ensure, always be you.

welcome back. time for "the lid." dan balz, theresa kumar and jennif jennifer reuben. we were talking before the break, and obviously i didn't get to a third of the russia

stories that have all sort of -- different things. i think the felix sater, michael cohen thing feels like it's in one category. it undermines some of the president's rhetoric. it doesn't feel central. this >> yes. i think he is looking at two things simultaneously. he is looking at obstruction, which is the easy one. whi why did he fire comey? why did he make certain statements? why did he come up with an excuse for firing comey? that only makes sense if he was trying to cover up something. you're seeing his efforts to impedes or divert or stop the investigation. i think he's going to go down these two tracks simultaneously. at the end we'll see what he's got. >> it does seem as though that the president, you hear this,

he's more comfortable with the power he has on some of these things. i don't think mueller will get fired but a lot of people might get pardons. >> it's almost as if he was sending a message to the broader folks. if you sit tight and you're right by me, not necessarily right by the law, we'll issue pardons your behalf. >> there's no piece of the news in russia the last three days that's been excapultory to this president. it looks worse not better. >> that's mostly been the case with revelations. revelations come and disappear for a while and then something else happens and it disappears. it's still hard. every time it's one of those we say mueller is intensifying the investigation. i think that's not necessarily the way to think about it. this is an intensive investigation. occasionally we get greater

glimpse of what he may know but we still don't know hold up he pieces it all together and the degree to which there is real evidence of the main allegations that started this. >> what's maiamazing here, ther a lot of washington being dragged into this. paul manafort, that aspect of the probe, there's a lot of democratic names in there. john podesta's broether who deserves a separate firm. et se it adds to the intrigue and give trump supporters something to hang their hat on. >> there's a lot of business that goes on during campaigns below the surface. someone running for the residency is trying to get a deal gone with a geopolitical foe of the united states and his guy is imploring the secretary to vladmir putin.

>> the amount of sketchy financial ideas that come from russia or kun trcountries that o be part of the soviet republic. you see other countries will invite. i think there's a lot of people in this down that have been corrupted by eastern european money. >> i think that's the challenge. the fact that donald trump junior was saying the meeting was all about the orphans and whether or not they were going to lift that. what it really was the act we put together saying you're not playing right by the law and we're going to put pressure on putin to ensure that you cannot pay off your cronies. that was the essence of that conversation from what we understand and the act they were trying to go against it. the issue is that, russia, is highly corrupt. the momentum we feel government officials are tasting that corruption in the united states, we have prided ourselves on

making sure we do not do. that's when our institutions are at risk. >> dan, there's a lot of people in this town that make a lot of money off of some renegade, shady people. >> there are lots of people who do a quite reputable jobs on domestic politics and attracted by money overseas. >> if there's one part of this probe that correctly shining a light on this practice. >> absolutely. it's not just in america. britain has this problem. they passed something we're going to have to look at which was a requirement that you can't use shell companies to purchase real. they are beginning to pierce these corporate fails because they know russians are buying up london. >> it's our political establishment. the way we run our exports.

we sent it out. >> it's like one part is about the president but there's a whole other aspect coming here. >> you were talking about trying to build a moscow at the same time when running for president. >> thank you all after the break. fake news meets hurricane harvey. we'll have the bit right after this. rethink what's possible. rethink your allergy pills.

flonase sensimist allergy relief helps block 6 key inflammatory substances with a gentle mist. most allergy pills only block one. and 6 is greater than one. flonase sensimist. ♪

you don't let anything lkeep you sidelined. come on! that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein, and 26 vitamins and minerals... for the strength and energy, to get back to doing what you love. ensure, always be you.

entertaining us, getting us back on track, and finding us dates. phones really have changed. so why hasn't the way we pay for them? introducing xfinity mobile. you only pay for data and can easily switch between pay per gig and unlimited. no one else lets you do that. see how much you can save. choose by the gig or unlimited. xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. call, visit or go to xfinitymobile.com.

in case you missed it, there are some dangerous creatures in the flood waters in texas. the homeowner found a couple of alligators in her backyard near houston. snakes and fire ants, yes those fire ants, and dangers you can't see like bacteria are all real concerns. in case you missed it, you do not be worried about running into this, a shark. despite this tweet circling around the internet saying this is a shark on the freeway in houston, there is not a shark swimming the flood waters there or anywhere around houston. it's fake image that appears to have been circulated as far back as 2011. jason michael agrees. he says he didn't intend for it to be anything other than amazing meme. he wrote this tweet which i wish

i had never tweeted is instructive. i at not attempting to teach the world a los slesson. it's teaching me something about the power of fake news. just be careful especially on those twitters. that's all we have for tonight. we'll be back but the beat with ari melber starts now. the pardon powers, i told people you would reveal the answer at 6:02. >> truth in advertising, slightly later in the show but we have a significant report on what happens if there are mass russia pardons. >> fair enough. it's worth sticking around for. definitely for this one. >> appreciate you. robert mueller is closing in. this russia investigation now officially reaching president trump and his inner circle. investigative pressure has