due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. me, too. we do talk sexually through the vents and stuff. vent sex, yes.

vent sex. all right. >> a young woman finds love in the jail's one co-ed housing unit. >> armed robbery just been something that always came nature. >> charged with a spree of armed robberies, an inmate comes under investigation inside the jail. >> rumor has it on the street that he's been putting out order to assault officers. >> i wouldn't say it's an assault. i would say more punishment. i was told you was up for murder. but you never know. a distraught father speaks for his son who, if found guilty, could face the death penalty. >> i know my dad knows in his heart that i ain't no killer. i know he knows that. [ laughter ] ♪

overlooking charleston harbor is ft. sumter. it's here that the first shots of the civil war were fired in april 1861. the fort is but one part of history that has been preserved in charleston, south carolina, a city that several travel publications describe as the most hospitable in the nation. outside downtown sits a modern day fortress. where strife and conflict often overshadow southern hospitality. >> it's crazy here. you get a little bit of everything. you have suicidal inmates. you have females. you get alcoholics from the street that come in, combative. >> i'm telling you! >> you've got segregation inmates. you've got a whole bunch that you've got the to deal with at one time. >> there are about 1,300 men and women incarcerated at the sheriff al cannon detention center's known as the charleston county jail.

while some have been convicted, most are only accused of crimes and are awaiting trial at the resolution of their cases. >> communication is the biggest thing, i feel, when you're dealing with a whole different variety of inmates. you got the to talk to them. the more i talk to find out what the problem is and learn how to deal with the problem, you get less resistance from them. no, you get into a fight, you hit one somebody who's got something, you don't know. >> officer skipper is a six-year veteran with the jail. most of that time has been in unit a1a, disciplinary segregation, where inmates with major rule violations are confined to single-person cells 23 hours a day. they lose most of their possessions and privileges, as well. >> they got to have us shackled because we in disciplinary. i been wearing these shackles so long it seems like sometimes it don't even be there. it's just that. it's a normal routine.

>> hey, mr. gathers. >> how you doing? >> did you have a bad day today? >> kind of. >> what happened? i been dealing with melvin now for maybe a little over two years. and he is one that you can't come at hard. you just got to listen to him and have patience with him because he flips like that. >> it's some people who i have zero tolerance for, and there's some people that i have about 10% tolerance for. >> i don't trust him when he has his hands cuffed in the front of him. and i was standing there talking to him and i was like, my hands were here because i don't trust him. >> he's unpredictable. you never know what he's going to do. he can be be smiling and be your best friend, then turn around and he's ready to swing. >> melvin gathers is in disciplinary segregation after an outburst at another segment.

he became agitated and grabbed a phone from the officer's desk and smashed it on the floor. >> i got upset. i asked to speak to the sarge. then it became the demand. the demand wasn't carried out. i took the phone and chucked it, and then it shattered. >> gathers was given 60 days in segregation, considered a long time for anyone. jail officials say it was because the phone incident came shortly after an even more serious violation. >> i've assaulted a c.o., a correctional officer. >> the officer had suspended 30 minutes of gathers' daily recreation time for refusing an order to return to his cell. >> he took 30 minutes of recreation of me. that's 30 minutes out of my day that i only can come out out of two hours. i feel like that's a big take. >> he was upset about it. he threw his cup full of juice on the officer. the officer backed away and hit his personal alarm. and inmate gathers hauled him behind the desk and physically started to assault the officer. >> it was really the wrong place, the wrong time for him. his actions disturbed me. i reacted.

>> gathers finally complied with orders as backup arrived at the unit. with a complex case ahead of him, gathers could face a long stretch in jail. he and a co-defendant face 13 charges including six for armed robbery. prosecutors say they held up three businesses during a four-day crime spree. gathers pled not guilty but has three prior robbery convictions. >> armed robbery just been something that always came natural as a first instinct. my first armed robbery was a mexican market. i went in there and demanded money, and i seen the power that i had when i looked into their eyes. >> gathers said he never physically harmed his robbery victims but acknowledges having scarred them in other ways. >> i understand that i did scar them probably for life because it will be a memory never forgotten. you can hear it in their voice. >> what? >> you can hear -- you can hear them pleading, you can hear them

pleaing, and you can hear them wanting to cry out, but they don't want to seem sort of weak in too vulnerable in the situation they're going through. >> what about their eyes? >> their eyes? >> what did you see? >> their life. i could tell that they feel this could be a life-and-death situation. >> gathers says he always hides his identity during holdups. >> i choose to disguise myself to give the law a little bit more of a challenge to identify me. >> prosecutors say this security camera image shows gathers on the right and his co-defendant on the left. both in disguise at the scene of their latest robbery. >> you got to the explain this to me. >> well -- >> you have to explain this to me. >> they saying that could be me. but it's not for sure that they know that it's me. that's my statement. and that's what's going to court. coming up -- >> you actually put an order out

for someone to be punished from here. >> it was more so like a warning. >> melvin gathers plays a game of cat and mouse with dangerous implications. and -- >> i didn't do nothing. we got dirt roads and trouble. >> a young man from one of the nearby islands faces the worst trouble of his life. whoooo.

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on some of the rural island communities off the coast of charleston, south carolina, many african-americans identify as gullah or geechee. cultures that date back to their ancestors who lived here as slaves. they speak an english-based creole language that can still be heard throughout the region. and inside the sheriff al cannon's detention center. >> me being here all my life, i have to sit back and listen.

they talk fast. it's rumbling or mumbling, but it's just the language. and they speak deep. >> the the accent is sometimes mistaken for jamaican. >> they do kind of relate the language because they speak patois. we sound the same, i guess. but i'm from south carolina, i'm not from jamaica. >> these guys sound like from jamaica or something like that. >> carlton solomon jr. has lived his entire life on nearby john's island. >> you ain't got nothing, you got dirt roads and trouble. that's just really it. different roads and trouble. >> solomon? how you doing, buddy? >> good. >> you all right? >> now, solomon has plenty of trouble.

he is charged with murder, first-degree burglary, and other crimes related to a terrifying home invasion on john's island. solomon has pled not guilty and is awaiting trial. >> i know the old saying that everybody's innocent in jail, but in some cases, some of us really are. >> authorities say solomon and two other men kicked in the back door of a home in the middle of the night. they say the trio encountered a 25-year-old man, whom they pistol whipped, then took his 27-year-old sister outside where she was shot in the pelvis and later died at a local hospital. >> god knows what happened. god knows who killed that lady. god knows that i did not have anything to do with this crime. >> solomon was the only man arrested after the surviving victim picked him out of a photo lineup. >> the only thing i could think of is that whoever that dude saw in that house that night probably was a light skinned male, you know? i got a history of trouble. and since i'm light skinned, i guess he saw the pictures and pointed me out.

>> solomon's history of trouble includes prior charges in an unrelated case for allegedly attempting to stab a friend and stealing his car. he pled not guilty and was out on bond when the murder he is now accused of occurred. >> they got this on the news. this lady that got killed, she has two little children. little children will grow up hating me. little children will grow up hating me. because [ bleep ] had nothing to do with it, you know? >> if found guilty, solomon would be eligible for the death penalty. >> when i see these walls and i hear these people, i don't never thought any of this would ever happen, ever. >> carlton solomon is one of several inmates from john's island. most are familiar faces to officer greene who was born on

the island and still lives there. >> john's island is a rural community. everybody is close knit, everybody knows everybody. i see people from home in here all the time. so if i see them at home, at the grocery store, they're like, "i'm out. you won't see me in there again." the when i see them again, it's like, "let me tell you what happened." >> the melvin gathers, who is awaiting trial for alleged armed robberies is, also from john's island. >> what's up? you doing all right? i've known his family for some time because we've been in school together from middle school through high school. by knowing his family, it helped in being able to talk and engage in conversation. >> sergeant kitchings hopes that officer greene's relationship with gathers will provide insight into gathers' role with the game folk notion. >> a set of gangs under a common name, folk nation, black gangster disciples, manic, latin disciples. out of chicago, they fall under the umbrella of folk nation. we have documented cases of a leader of a gang sending out orders to members to assault other inmates. we've had some members get

caught up with smuggling contraband to the facility. they have assaulted staff before. so they get -- it can be a real big problem. >> melvin gathers, he is a second lieutenant in folk nation. he is considered one of the higher ranks. when its come down to his gang affiliations here, his chest is out, he's out. >> mr. gathers refers to himself -- and i've heard other inmates refer to him as supreme. >> a lot of people call me supreme. supreme is the most high. i have a reputation that i must hold. >> officer last has observed gathers' influence over other inmates. >> if they're all yelling and screaming, he can stop them. if they're all quiet and he's mad, he can start them, as well. >> i can direct an inmate, a brother, a person, even a non-disciple. if i was to send word to the

street to handle anything that needs to be taken care of, it will get handled. >> several weeks earlier, an inmate tied to folk nation assaulted an officer in the jail. now sergeant kitchings wants to find out if gathers was involved. >> rumor has it on the street that he's been putting out orders to assault officers. hopefully we're able to confirm or deny that information today. >> good evening. how you doing, man? go on and have a seat, melvin. you're folk, right, gangster disciple? how long you been involved? >> yeah, since day one. >> day one? >> age 13. '99. >> how far up are you? >> how far am i? i'm not comfortable answering that question as far as rank instruction. i'm not comfortable answering that question. >> i've been hearing something kind of disturbing to me. i've been hearing that you've been putting orders out for officers to be assaulted. and this is coming from the street. it's not coming from this facility.

have you been doing that? >> i wouldn't say it's an assault. i'd say more of a punishment. >> a punishment? >> yeah. >> why? >> due to ways and actions. >> of an officer in here? >> yeah. you have to give respect to get it. >> i understand that. >> you can't treat people any kind of way and expect nothing to come. >> you actually put an order out for someone to be punished from here because of the way they treated you? >> it was more so like a warning. >> a warning? >> yeah. >> you're looking at some serious charges, all right, and more charge to that, that's a felony. >> there's about so much you can do to me right now. >> you that true. but you go to court with additional felony charges -- especially putting out order and hits like that even though you might not intend it to be that serious, they are serious. and that's going to go against you when you go to court. you feel like you have a glimmer of hope, you need to hold on to that hope. doing stuff like this, that hope can fade real quickly. you look perplexed.

what's wrong? trying to think of something? >> no. >> okay. >> a wise man always think before he speak. and dealing with people of your caliber and the person of my nation is, like playing chess. we're on two different sides of the table. >> that's right. >> as kitchings and greene press gathers, he begin to backtrack. >> it's not in my nature to do stuff like that. >> right. right. >> if anybody knows supreme, people would know i'm the more humble type with my authority. i'm guilty by association pretty much. mr. kitchings, guilty by association. >> well, i appreciate you talking to us, okay? but take my advice to heart and just chill out. you don't need any more charge before you go to court. all right, man. thank you. >> all right. >> take him back. >> you kind of flip-flopped. was some kind of hit put out on a specific officer? >> did i send it? no.

do everybody think that i've done it? yes. they think that supreme has his hands in a lot of things. >> i think he wants to project himself as being very powerful. if he is projected as pulling that much power to have inmates assault officers, the other inmates might respect him more. might project him to be more of a powerful individual. personally, i do not believe gathers ordered the assault. i don't think he pull that's much weight around here to have ordered that assault. >> what's the next step from here? >> just monitor his activity. >> so the game continues? >> that's all it is is a game. i have a simple philosophy -- they have 24 hours, seven days a week, 365 days a week to come up with games or to mess with our minds. we've got 12 hours to feed the game. >> all right -- coming up -- >> carlton solomon. any family members for the defendant?

>> yes, ma'am. i'm his father. >> carlton solomon stands before the judge and his father. and -- >> i love you. >> love you, too. >> a young woman finds love through an air vent. >> what you doing? now with 30% less carbs and sugars. glucerna.

inside the sheriff al cannon detention center, inmates often take creative steps to make jail feel a bit more like home. for samantha mcdonald, that means using just about anything to feel attractive. >> the the eye shadow is new. i just invented it.

this is my toothbrush. >> recently when mcdonald took another step to simulate her life at home, she got 30 days in disciplinary segregation. >> this time is because i was celebrating my birthday, and i made alcohol. and someone actually snitched on me. i was making it in a bottle with bread for yeast, fruit for like the acids and stuff, and then i used juice from the lunch which also has sugar and gives it a little taste. >> mcdonald is charged with petty larceny and burglary. she pled not guilty but admits to entering an unlocked home during a time when she was living on the streets and addicted to drugs. >> i went to the fridge to get something to eat. then i went from the fridge to

the bedroom to see if they had any change on their dresser, whatever. and when i opened the first drawer, there was $300 sitting in the drawer. so i took $300 and left. >> mcdonald has struggled with drug use, ranging from marijuana and ecstasy to crack and cocaine. she says she turned to drugs after a painful childhood. >> i talked to my therapist about that. he says that's because of your past. don't let it fuel anything. no feelings and stuff. and yeah. >> now mcdonald has new feelings to deal with. she's met a man here. >> when he comes out for rec for his hour, he comes to my window. i'm dara brown with breaking news out of north korea. there are reports of an explosion felt in north korea. the usgs has ruled out an earthquake. it happened in the same area where the country has the conducted nuclear tests and this news comes a few hours after the north korean state agency

reported the military developed a new advanced nuclear weapon. pictures surfaced of kim jong-un observing what is said to have been a hydrogen bomb and loading it into an icbm. the south korean president is expecting to convene a meeting of the national security council. an explosion in north korea but we have no confirmation of what type of explosion it might be and whether it is nuclear in nature. ron allen joins us now from seoul, south korea. what can you tell us about the situation there? >> it's widely expected that this will be a nuclear detonation under ground, a test. you know there is an ongoing back and forth shows of forth between north korea, the united states and south korea that launch of a missile over japan, the huge show of force by the

u.s. military here as part of military exercises and as you pointed out this morning in north korea and the north korean government released pictures showing their leader apparently inspecting what they claim is a new extremely powerful hydrogen bomb. that of course has not been confirmed but there have been expectations here they would conduct a nuclear test in the coming days. there is an anniversary of north korean holiday september 9th and it was expected that would be the next day they test a nuclear device. this happening now is not a big surprise but not confirmation. is it another big step by the north koreans to assert their authority, assert their power in this part of the world. they want to be seen and recognized as a nuclear power and as a player in this part of the world. we know during the past week there have been conflicting signals from the trump administration on how they would

handle this situation whether there would be dialogue or not. the president saying that talking is not an option but statements from the secretary of defense saying there is a possibility of dialogue here. but this is an act by the north koreans in defiance but the u.n. security council which stepped up sanctions and earlier, earlier last week to more sanctions and issue strong condemnation of north korea for that missile test over japan which was unprecedented. here in seoul, south korea, the government is about to meet. the national security council in an emergency session to determine a response to this. we have heard nothing from washington in terms of a response but it's we expect a strong condemnation on north korea and remains to be seen what the trump administration will do in terms of dialogue. many in this region are

adamantly opposed to a military response to north korea. the scenarios for a military strike and retaliation by the north koreans, they are catastrophic implication scenarios because there are tens of millions of people in south korea who live in the target zone within range of north korea's conventional weapons which line the border to the north. i'm in seoul which is 50 miles from the border. a delicate situation here, the tension ratcheting up as north korea apparently exploded a nuclear divide underground this morning. >> the north koreans have been doing these ballistic test missiles in february, march, more in april and may. they've all been ballistic missiles and air missiles. but this is potentially an underground explosion. why the difference and how often have they been going off in north korea?

>> this is the sixth we believe to be sixth nuclear test. it registers as an earthquake and is felt around the world. there by the united states geologic surveys. some indicate it registered as a 6.3 or so magnitude earthquake. that gives you an idea of the power of these blasts. the other tests happening here are missiles, ballistic missiles, long-range missiles. two tests in july and a week ago a flight over of a missile that flew from north korea over japan, the first time that had happened. a missile that flew some 17 mur miles. the missile that was fired earlier last week went to the

north but it has a range that could have hit guam, many experts believe. now this nuclear test if that is what it is, and many experts think happened is another round in the escalation between north korea, united states, south korea and japan. north korea wants to be seen as a player and recognized for their nuclear prowess. their nuclear capability as the ultimate weapon in their arsenal because they fear that the united states and south korea are trying to take over the korean peninsula. remember on the korean peninsula, the korean war from the 1950s is still ongoing. there is no peace treaty. there's a truce but over the past 50 years or so, there has been a back and forth between the north and the south about dominance in this particular region. and the north sees the nuclear

weapon as the ultimate weapon that it can have to defend itself. the united states of course is very concerned about the unpredictable leader, kim jong-un having this sort of weapon. but many experts will tell you that the option that the united states has to try and stop this escalation, to stop this development are limited. north korea has been under sanctions now for the better part of a decade yet it is still able to acquire materials to continue this development. during the reign of kim jong-un they have fired off some 80 missiles during the past number of years which is a huge escalation and the missiles are of ever increasing sophistication and there was partly yet another nuclear test. the claim by the north koreans this morning is they had a hydrogen bomb which is more powerful than a nuclear weapon. they also claim that this

device, this hydrogen bomb can be put into a long-range missile. they have made these claims in the past. and most experts thought they were not there yet but moving in that direction. so again, a very, very serious situation here. and it's unclear what the north koreans have done and what capacity they have. but again it's accounts of a 6.3 magnitude earthquake in that part of the world come to be dr true that would be the most powerful nuclear test they have done yet. >> we have seen in the past how the north koreans have used these ballistic test and done this posturing around specific dates. kim jong-un has been doing this in terms of military parades when we saw the reveal of the larger missiles as they came down the avenue in north korea. you mentioned september 9th as another potential date for north

koreans. has anyone in south korea been paying attention to this and that there would be another ceremonial date for kim jong-un to be focusing on? >> south korean have been warning all last week that in fact the north was ready and prepared to conduct another nuclear test at any moment. there was a statement from the government just yesterday emphasizing that, warning that this could happen. so yes, the south koreans are very aware of the increasing capability that the north side has and they have been warning about it. the south koreans have been emphasizing dialogue and reconciliation. there is a new president in this country and he came to power on a platform and policy saying there should be dialogue and reconciliation with the north which is counter from what we are hearing from the trump administration which is at times the president himself sounded like there were military options he wanted to consider, some sort

of first strike to destroy the -- or to destroy the north's missile capability. south koreans are adamantly opposed to that because they fear the consequences could be catastrophic. seoul sits 50 miles from one of the most fortified boarders in the world and the congress jone consequences are unspeakable in many analysts' eyes. that is the tension between the south korean government and the united states government and the japanese government as well, which is clearly in the firing line. japan just lies not far from here. that missile that flew over japan arrived there in a matter of minutes. so they feel vulnerable to north korea's missile program. but this nuclear issue is somewhat separate and apart but

it's a huge, huge issue because, again, no one doubts the north koreans have nuclear capability. the question is what will they do? the question is will they ever use that? most analysts tell you they would have to know if they ever did anything that showed they are about to launch a nuclear missile that the country would be obliterated. but again, it's a very unpredictable regime that feels unsiege and under attack threatened by the south koreans and the united states. what they might do is very unpredictable. and the united states is very, very concerned about this. to some extent, this test is not a big surprise. it's essentially the date of the north korean's regime sees as its founding day in the 1950s toward the end or the armistice in the korean war.

but again, the north koreans have this capability and are displaying it and saying to the world, look, we can do this. we're a powerful nation, take us seriously. it's a very big concern, a very big threat to peace in this part of the world. >> right now we're going to bring in our pentagon correspondent who has been following this as well. i want to ask you, ron mentioned that south korea is convening to discuss this. and obviously japan is concerned as well. what has been going on with any conversations on china to put pressure on the north to stop these tests and sit down and have a discussion? >> there has been a lot of diplomacy trying to get the chinese on board to put pressure on north korea. china being one of the major allies and players who might be able to do something to influence north korea to stop their ballistic missile program, to stop this continued testing.

this isn't of course the first time we have seen them conduct a nuclear test not even in the last couple years. the one difference here, and of course everything is very early is, this appears to be -- if in fact this is some sort of a nuclear test, north korean nuclear test, the earthquake, the magnitude of what we saw here is larger than what we've seen from north korea in the past. and what's particularly troublesome at this early stage, again is, that in the past when they have tested a nuclear weapon, it's always been more of an atomic weapon. they have just recently just in the past 24 hours, north korea has said they have been able to perfect some type of hydrogen bomb technology. so of course as i keep saying, this is all very early. we don't have an assessment from the u.s. government yet on what exactly this could have been. but the larger size of the magnitude of what we saw here,

the earthquake, is somewhat troubling. >> and they are saying this was caused by an artificial earthquake was the original report. other than being a nuclear missile what could have happened in north korea to create a 6.3 magnitude quake? >> you know, a mining explosion is always some kind of an option here. i'm not an expert on that. but this seems very large for something. you know, more than a 6 magnitude earthquake, i don't know what a mining explosion would be. but i don't know if you recall, but there have been two smaller, in the 2.1, 2.3 magnitude earthquakes in north korea. any time there is any geologic activity there, we make sure there wasn't some sort of a test. and we're often told early on when it's something smaller like

that, the u.s. government doesn't believe it was any kind of a test. in this case, immediately when i got the alert this happened i started making phone calls and everyone is telling me we just don't know. it's very early in this process here. the pentagon is aware and working on this. and working on assessment. the u.s. government is very well aware about this. a lot of people were woken up about to this evening. >> president trump had warned that north korea would be met with fire, fury, and frankly, the power the likes this world has never seen before if it continued to threaten the united states. those were words that came from the president in august. and since then there have been trying to get those peace negotiations going. sort to have a dialogue going on with north korea. what does something like this potentially do to any kind of talks if this was a nuclear explosion, an underground nuclear explosion.

how does the pentagon address that now? >> any kind of diplomacy wouldn't have to do with the pentagon as much as the state department. and secretary tillerson just last month said that north korea seemed to be abiding by and seemed to be behaving better. and within days of that we saw a ballistic missile test by them. so that's something that of course the state department is going to have to take the lead on as opposed to the pentagon. we just heard secretary mattis say there is always still room for diplomacy. but i think you know, you'll continue to hear secretary mattis and u.s. military leaders say while diplomacy is the preferred method here all u.s. military options are always on the table. the u.s. military has a tremendous capability in that region always at all times. we saw them exercise some of that a couple days ago in response to north korea's

ballistic missile test that flew over japan, over hokkaido. the u.s. military and south korea and japan all conducted a joint military exercise where they flew together several types of aircraft and dropped a couple of bombs in south korea. so the u.s. military and south korea and japan have a very strong trilateral alliance, military and diplomatic alliance and a tremendous military capability in the region. but i would say every time you talk to secretary mattis about this and about the chairman of the joint chiefs they always maintain that diplomacy is the preferred method here because of the tremendously catastrophic nature of what a military conflict would look like with north korea. >> what does this do to the other nations? south korea will convene and have a meeting. but japan had a missile fly over it. and you also had the potential

attacks on guam. this puts these areas in a high-tension, higher alert status. have you heard anything about these countries going into any sort of military mode or high alert status over there because of this explosion? >> nothing yet. they live in a constant high state of readiness, you know, guam, south korea and japan, they are always in a constant state of readiness. one thing that was particularly striking about the north korea test was that japan issued an alert to its residents because the missile was flying over northern japan, over hokkaido. that's not common. that was unusual. and it got everyone here in the u.s. in the military i was in the pentagon at the time when it happened. and that was something that certainly got a lot of people's attention when japan issued that warning. but they live in a constant state of readiness there.

north korea is a constant threat. while tensions have been particularly high this summer they have been heightened since april when there was a lot of speculation that north korea may test a nuclear weapon in conjunction with one of their national days and they didn't. there was a u.s. military buildup at the time. the u.s. brought an aircraft carrier off the coast and made it known they had that there. but in the meantime with these additional tests with two intercontinental ballistic missile tests this summer in july, the u.s. military has not brought in additional assets since then. there has been more offensive and kinetic testing and shows of force by the military. they have fired off ground based missile systems that are right in south korea. they've flown many b-1 bombers and f-35s just a couple days ago

over south korea and within range of north korea. so one thing to keep in mind is the u.s. military mission there, their motto is fight tonight. they're always ready, they always stand ready to fight. >> courtney, if you could stay with us. ron, it seems we have had confirmation from a south korean military official saying this is a suspected nuclear test. is that what you're hearing there in south korea? >> yes. again, suspected as a nuclear test. i don't think yet we have reached the point where they have confirmed that is what happened. but there seems to be little doubt that that's likely what happened given where this explosion happened and given where the measurement of it, 6.3 on the richter scale and that north korea threatened to do this and given the fact that the past two weeks or so has been a

continuing escalating back and forth between the united states, north korea, south korea with the north insisting and being defiant and saying they are going to continue to test missiles and nuclear devices because they see this, again as their ultimate self-defense against invasion by the so south and the united states. so we also believe that the south korean government is meeting its national security council is meeting in an emergency session. we're waiting to get confirmation of that and see what the response is. and again, i'm sure that the south koreans and the united states and the japanese military and security apparatus are all trying to figure out how to respond. there is a lot of analysis to determine what the force in this explosion was, what exactly was tested, whether this was something new and as the north koreans try to purport this

morning that they had achieved the creation of a hydrogen bomb which would be unprecedented and a huge dangerous step forward. we don't have confirmation of that. but we have fast moving developments in seoul, south korea where the government is trying to determine what the north koreans have done, what they have -- what they have set off. and the united states is trying to analyze exactly what exactly is new or different in this arsenal. but again it's a very concerning time. it's a very worrying time because the north koreans are so unpredictable. but this is yet another step and act of defiance in a couple weeks of escalating back and forth between the united states and north korea. words by president trump, words by the north korean leader, missiles launched by the north korean side over japan. more missiles set off by the

north koreans. a huge show of force by the u.s. military. military exercises going on for the past couple weeks. exercises that happen twice a year in this part of the world. and the united states, south korea, and japan were in the process of winding down two weeks of exercises that always happen that infuriate north korea and that is the trigger that pushes north koreans now. they are always very, very agitated by these u.s. military exercises and they called for the u.s. and south koreans to back down a little bit on this. but the united states of course says they're not going to do this because they see these exercises which involve tens of thousands of south korean and japanese troops as well as essential to the defense posture in this part of the world. the exercises went on and concluded with a massive flyover by the b-1 b bombers that came

up from guam which is the place that the north koreans have said they are targeting and they had said that the missiles they -- that they launched over japan they called that a prelude to the curtain razor to more missiles, to more consolidation of the pacific and the area around guam. guam is the headquarters, the base for major u.s. military operations there. and the north koreans see that as a threat. so again, where this goes from here is very unclear. you know, with a little perspective we know that these tests have been happening far couple years but the back and forth has been going on for a long time. there is that perspective that this has been going on for some time and not like today is going to be the day where something calamitous is going to happen. but this test, based on what we're hearing, seems to be the most powerful test the north koreans have ever done. it's the sixth test and they

have been warned repeatedly not do this. but the sanctions regimes and condemnation from the international community have little effect on the north koreans. they keep moving forward in the last number of recent years they have made significant advances with their weapons program and perhaps now with their nuclear program. they keep moving forward despite attempts to rein them in. the north koreans see all of this, the missiles, the nuclear capability as essential to their very exist. >> ron, thank you and please hold the line. we want to bring in gordon chang who is an expert on north korea and authored a book on north korea. we have spoken before on this topic of north korea firing missiles, but this is potentially something different. this is an underground nuclear test, which takes it to a whole different level. what can you tell us about what is happening in north korea and south korea now and how they're going to adjust to this.

>> this device was buried at least as early as the first part of march of this year and they completed all the preparations for this. all they were waiting for was a political decision by kim jong-un to set this thing off. we always worry about them setting off devices or launching missiles on their holidays. what they're doing now is timing them for our holidays when we're least able to respond to them, this is a three-day weekend. and trump had declared a day of remembrance for the houston and texas victims. this is really disrespecting the united states. indeed, i believe that trump has to make the north koreans pay for this otherwise we're going to see an accelerated pace of other tests and exercises and things which are going to destabilize the international community. >> and gordon, you bring up

interesting points here. you say it's the political decision is on kim jong-un on as to when he does this and possibly it's because of things going on in houston and politics are looking a different way than north korea. but why would kim jong-un suddenly make this decision to ratchet up to such a degree here? why now? >> i think it's largely because he looks a it the united states and believes it is in chaos and therefore he is trying to take advantage of what he believes is a time when the united states won't respond or won't respond adequately. also, you have in china xi jinping, the chinese ruler at a sensitive period in the run up to the 19 party congress slated for october 18th. he's got this perfect storm of the two countries that matter most to him are not in a position to respond in an adequate fashion. so i think that what he's

decided to do is make hay while he could and he thinks he can get away with it. >> you say that the united states does have to respond in an adequate way. what would be considered an adequate response to kim jong-un? >> if i were president of the united states what i would be doing is saying to china and russia we are going to response a resolution for an embargo of north korea also no transfers of oil to north korea, complete isolation. and i'd say to china and russia, if you don't agree with this, that's your prerogative. but we will then impose severe costs on both of you for supporting north korea because we don't have very much choice. we know the north korean when they are confident in their arsenal are going to use it to blackmail the united states to get troops off the peninsula so kim jong-un can achieve the ultimate goal of the north

korean regime which is the destruction of the south korean state and kim jong-un has been talking to his generals recently about final victory. this is a point where the united states has no room for margin. we don't have much time to figure this out and we got to move very quickly. >> gordon, in the past everyone has been saying we have been having words and possibly trying to have a peace treaty and taking diplomatic steps in order to resolve this issue. you know the north korean mindset here. is there any way to really solve this diplomatly? >> yes, there is. but, talking right now would be the wrong strategy because it's at a time when kim jong-un thinks he has the upper hand. you talk to kim jong-un when he believes he has no choice but to disarm, when he has no choice but to do what we tell him to. and we can maneuver him into that position but we need time

to do it and certainly now is not the point where the administration is i think organized to put together an effective response. so, yeah, we should talk to him. but much later down the road. >> tell me more about the pressure that could be applied to china. obviously china is one of north korea's largest backers financially and with everything else. what other sanctions could be taken and embargoes for china to really put the pressure on north korea to stop this? >> all we have to do is enforce u.s. law. bank of china, one of china's so-called big four banks was named in a 2016 u.n. report for devising and operating a money laundering scheme for the north koreans. that is a violation of under section 3-11 of the patriot act, they could no longer do business in dollars which means it would be out of business in most

places around the world. it's essentially a death sentence and we have been warning the chinese about money laundering for the north koreans far back as november of last year. the chinese have not been willing to take the hint. so right now, we've run out of time for signals. if the chinese don't help us in the security council we need to start putting chinese banks out of business. that's going to throw the chinese financial system into turmoil which could tank the chinese economy and end the reign of the communist party. xi jinping knows that and knows that the united states doesn't have the political will to do it. but something like this should get the administration to the point where they are willing to move effectively against china. we have the tools to do it. we just have not been willing to. i think right now we should be willing to do this.

>> and willing, obviously means that we have to be able to put pressure on china and you mentioned russia. what could russia contribute to this to get north korea to back down on these missile tests. >> the worry we have about russia is it will back fill as ambassador haleys could come in and take their place. the russian economy is quite weak right now. we have had a policy for years of worrying more about a weak russia than a strong one. so we have not applied effective sanctions against the russians. that's got to change as well. i think the trump administration needs to signal to beijing and moscow that we place north korea at the top of the list and we will not allow them to undermine

our efforts to disarm north korea. >> it's no surprise they are been doing this and building this and in the past few months have ratcheted up the missile tests, the ballistic missiles and now this possible hydrogen bomb which takes the threat to a completely different level. with china putting pressure on north korea. we're looking at a map right now. you can see how close it is to south korea, japan and all those neighboring country which are militarily always on the ready but with north korea making so much noise about these missiles and testing these missiles, can china, can russia, can they really put the pressure on to stop them or is kim jong-un just this wild child who doesn't care? >> i'm sure that kim jong-un doesn't care that but the chinese do have the means to disarm north korea, about 90% or

more than 90% of north korea's two-way trade is accounted for with china. china supplies more than 90% of north korea's oil. much of it on concessionary terms. the list goes on and on. but the most important thing that beijing supplies is not material support or diplomatic support but it provides confidence to regime members in pyongyang they are safe from south korea and the united states. if beijing were to signal it no longer supported north korea's weapons programs i'm sure a number of generals and admirals and senior officials in the korean workers party would back away from kim jong-un. you know, china has been signaling support for the north korean missile and nuclear programs by supporting them with equipment, technology, come moments, all the rest of it.

therefore the north koreans feel no pressure to give them up. but if china were to change its attitude then there would be a completely different calculus and beijing could then go in and probably get the regime elements to back away from from kim jong weapons program and even maybe back away from kim jong-un himself. >> always great to you and have your insight into this country. i appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> right now, we are going to go kier simmons. what is the reaction from china. it is right there. it is right next to north korea. so how is the affect in china? >> reporter: well, there isn't a reaction yet from the