house. new white house statement says the president and national security team will have a meeting today. i'll be back at noon, but first a.m. joy right now. good morning and welcome to a.m. joy. today, we got our eye on the developments in -- in north korea. which is claimed to have tested a hydrogen bomb capable of rooeching the u.s. we'll have more on that this hour. but first we want to start with this week in russia gate. this moment jim comey's senate testimony in may. >> it makes me mildly nauseous to think we had impact on the election. >> among the millions of americans who tuned in in may was apparently donald trump. the according to the "new york times," on the weekend after the hearing trump was rained out of a golf outing in new jersey and stuck indoors stewing over

comey's slight against his election. reports are he poured all of his rage into unfettered thoughts. several sources described. they say while it doesn't dwell on russia it does express concern comey wouldn't say publicly trump wasn't under investigation. the letter wasn't sent. the angry meandering tone was probl problematic. that was all changed now because that letter is now in the hands of special counsel robert mueller. msnbc contributor, paul butler and richard painter. thank you all for being here. gener jenny fer i'll start with you.

there seems to be a gathering narrative that what set him off and down the path -- i guess he was already thinking about firing jim comey, but the idea comey was made nausious by in any way helping him get elected. >> i think it's significant for a few reasons. one, we are going to have some alternate evidence other than what was put ow publicly. so comparing that original screed and the one that was eventually drafted will be interesting. but more important will is who was involved in this? now you have the vice president, rod rosenstein, other people who are involved and what can be seen as a conspiracy to obstruct justice. so far we haven't seen the vice president pence or people like rod rosenstein involved in this level of discourse. so, i think that's problematic for them. if you remember, pence later went out, gave a false reason

for the firing of james come ja >> after donald trump wrote the screed in which he wanted to pour out owl this against jim comey, he winds up then getting rod rosenstein to write a letter that he then uses as a pretext to go ahead and fire jim comey. do you think that puts rosenstein in a po digs where he cannot be a supervisor of the mueller investigation? >> well i think he can continue to do what he's doing. he is not interfering in the investigation that we know of. he has not telling rob mueller what to investigate, what not to investigate. he may be managing other matters. removing rosenstein at this point would be a very bad idea because then president trump could have someone put in there who could turn around and fire

mueller. we need to find out what's in the letter. that's absolutely critical. find out what the letter says. and then the second question is going to be who wrote this letter, whether it is donald trump dictating or whether we have steven mueller writing some lines as well. steven -- he's an alt-right extremist who has been some what im balanced since high school. if he wrote the letter, then it's going to be hashd to attribute that content to donald trump. but if president trump dictated the letter it could be an admission of a motive to fire jams comey because of the russia investigation. by the way the president has already said just as much on tv anyway so i'm not sure the letter will add a lot to the discussion. >> that is an interesting point because the person who i believe it was in the washington post telling of the story describes miller as the scrivener which is an interesting way to describe him.

it was essentially donald trump pouring out his thoughts but it did seem the focus was donald trump is angry as several people. he's angry at comey for failing po publicly exonerate him. according to the post and "new york times," he's also angry at jeff sessions for not protecting him in the mueller probe. he expected the people in his government to marshal a defense of him against russia gate. does that constitute obstruction or a temperature mental president? >> if the president is concerned that comey wouldn't exonerate him publicly, the way that he had privately, and that's why he fired him, what that means is that the president has abused the power of his offers, but that's not a crime. if on the other hand, he fired comey to stop or impede the

investigation, then that's obstruction of justice. what robert -- what special counsel robert mueller will do is hall everybody into the grand jury who was part of this meeting where this letter was up. that's the vice president, kushner and miller. they'll claim executive privilege but trump has waved that with all the talk he's done. >> including telling lester holt. we'll go down the seminal trump interview. i did it because of russia. if that was supposed to be the get out of jail free card, what an interesting one to play. when we keep going down the road of the attempts that donald trump has made to deflect the russia gate probe, trying to entice comey to just drop the investigation against michael flynn, one of the other thing was he tried to accuse the other president of a felony, to say the reason this is happening is president barack obama

wiretapped him. they've now officially given the word that did not happen. what do you make of the fact that even that was deployed by donald trump, this attempt to smear the former president as wiretapping him illegally? >> we talk about the details of this investigation all the time. but certainly from the aspect of the u.s. intelligence community and investigators, who are in on this now, the key question is what is the base motivation for all of this activity? why does donald trump feel that he is frightened by this investigation, frightened by the information that is being leaked, that he feels that he has to actually engineer answers with his team in order to stop the investigation? that leads to some underlying cause that to a certain extent we saw earlier this week with the letter that came out between felix saider and his personal

counsel, mr. cohen, saying moscow was all in to get him elected. he is projecting a feeling that he is illegitimate as a president. the either he knows something that the american people doesn't know, and that he is desperate to cover up, and he is more than willing to bet his presidency against it. i think that's what we're having to deal with. >> that is the point. donald trump is either going to all of these great length because he's trying to keep something in his business life private or in his tax records. we know the irs is now involved. the businesses are being looked at. or he knows something about the russia gate conspiracy itself that he's trying to keep private. let's talk about that second possibility. julian assange, who we know was the conduit for the stolen dnc hacked e-mails to get to the public via wikileaks. a republican congressman from

california is a big fan of russia and has been for a long time, met with julian assange, went with this blger to meet with him. now he claims he wants to have a private meeting with donald trump to tell him of julian assange's self-defense claiming the information did not come from russia. what do you make of this talk that he is floating, that donald trump should pardon julian assange and get whatever information he has to offer? >> well, assange is a foreign national living in a foreign embassy who we haven't indicted for any crimes in the united states. what is he going to pardon him on? dana, as you heard from the republican party themself the is one who everybody thinkings in is in the pocket of russia. i've met him. he sounds like a nice guy. served the country well in the

time in the military. but for him to go to london and meet with julian assange, who mike pompeo, the director of the cia who referred to rickey ---we are now going down rabbit holes to where we may have an active campaign to cover up all the players in this game in a very happen hazard am mature fashion. this is only going to expand the scope of the investigation of the mueller team and just going to bring more pain to the white house. the white house needs to just fess up on this subject and whatever they're hiding, can can't be -- unless it's just espionage, it can't be as bad as they think it is, as it's going to be if they continue the cover-up. >> same question to you. this talk of attempting to either bring julian assange in as a defense witness, essentially, for donald trump on

russia gate, what do you make of it? because there's a certain news organization that's fallen yique in love with him. >> i have no idea. he's been leaking classified information. anybody who's dealing with him is not loyal to the united states. that's the main point here is that in order to accomplish political objectives, people have betrayed the united states to the russians. the now dealing with julian assange. these are people who are hostile to the united states. we are not democrats versus republicans on the issues of national security. we're americans and these people are betraying the united states to try to work these types of secret deals behind our country's back. >> jennifer ruben, you've seen little spurts of republicans

trying to defend the donald trump, turn it on to hillary clinton. at some point are we going to see unanimity we need to agree this was a hostile attack against the united states? >> i keep waiting for that moment. for months. and frankly, i think i've given up. i think many of them are hopeless. i think they have shown their true stripes, which is preference of party sanship over country. they've chosen to prankly look at the interest of a foreign power and the president rather than the interest of the country. i would also raise one other point. that is this week we learned how desperate the president's son in it law was for cash. that sends a whole other set of questions before us regarding his meeting with a russian banker. it may not be only donald trump that's in trouble but jared kushner if he was dealing on business matters with banks under sanctions at the time. >> particularly, paul butler as

we learned. efforts were much wider, voter rolls were gone after and it wasn't just donald trump that benefited from what the raugss did. there was a wide spread attack on democrats who were trying to get elect the more widely. i'm wondering how broad this goes. the if anyone for instance that was in congress was attempting to get in the way of donald trump being investigated, of the businesses of kushner and manafort et cetera being investigated, and they also derived benefit, how wide could mueller end up going? >> she's right the republican congress may not fulfill its constitutional responsibilities as the nation turns its only eyes to the special council. there's also a -- they start out by looking at collusion. they then look at the cover-up. that's going to be a very wide investigation. we see it's already getting into trump and cushion ner's final

dealings. certainly could include any member of congress who's participated in some kind of cover-up of this whole sordid mess. >> tick, tick, tick. i think i'm stealing that from somebody on twitter. jennifer ruben, mag comback later. thank you both pore being here. up next, north korea tests its first nuclear bomb of the trump era and trump responds exactly the way you think. stay with us. for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide.

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tensions between the u.s. and north korea have reached an alarming new level this morning. after north korea says it tested

a hydrogen bomb that could be placed on an intercontinental missile capable of reaching the u.s. this would be the sixth and largest test since 2006. and it would be the isolated country's first nuclear test since donald trump took office. the president was up early this morning going right to twitter to give his response. he called north korea's words and actions very hostile and dangerous to the united states. he also tweeted that north korea is quote a rogue nation which has become a great threat and embarrassment to china, which is trying to help but with little success. he finished off by calling out south korea saying its talk of appeasement will not work and they only understand one thing. joining me now is gordon chang. msnbc contributor malcolm nans and joe -- i'm going to start

with you on that last bit. they only understand one thing. that sounds like a threat of force against north korea. is that the kind of thing that works on north korea? >> well, force would work, but he also understand other things. for instance, since the end. fighting in the korean war, which is 1953, there has generally been deterrence. it has failed a number of times, but for the most part, deterrence has worked. it's obviously they understand something else which is overwhelming strength and restraint. i think that we can have -- that's sort of like the beginning of the solution to north korea. >> right. >> because there are a number of thing we can do short of the use of force. >> you wrote in your column which everyone i highly recommend reading, that this response you're seeing out of kim jong-un is in response to what the trump administration has been doing to them which is kind of praising them for restraint. but what they're also -- the

leverage that the united states could use would be to go after chinese banks. >> chinese banks, small and large ones, have been laundering money for the north koreans, that's a violation of the u.s. patriot act. and the united states can actually declare or designate a bank a primary money landering concern and essentially deny it access to dollars. in other words, that's a death sentence for many any bank especially chain into's big banks. the threat of that i think is enough to push china in the right direction. but i think that's a reason for doing it. >> what would china do? how could they constrain north korea? >> easily, first of all, cut off trade, stop the dim mat ic support. but most importantly they could signal to regime elements that they no longer support him and

the nuclear weapons program. i think you'd see a lot of generals and party officials head for the exits. china to actually disarm north korea if it wanted to. it doesn't want to but it does have the power. >> let's put up a map of the region. i always love to get people reor gented to the space and geography of this. because china is the very large neighbor just to the north of north korea and they're surrounded essential by south korea, our ally and japan right there. the mind set of the regime, can you talk about how much it is informed by the u.s. detonating a nuclear weapons in hiroshima. as you can see right there in japan. >> sure. the north koreans see themselves as isolated and surrounded by hostile powers. it was no coincidence for example that their last missile test, which overflew japan

happened on august 29, the anniversary of the japan korean annexation act, 107 years ago. japan used to occupy north korea. so they see japan, south korea, the united states, as putting a formidable military force on their borders and practicing drills to overthrow them. they believe that that that's why they need a nuclear weapon, that they need the nuclear weapon to sort of the police department side of gordon's argument, to deter the united states from attacking them. within that, you have the elements of a possible deal. if you -- if the u.s. fears the north korean attack, north korean fear the united states attack, you have the elm of negotiating with this to reduce tensions, provide security assurances, have each side pull back. but that requires some very defendant diplomacy it's not at

all this administration is up to the task. >> let's go through. the white house did issue a statement that said the national security team is monitoring this closely. the president and his national security team will have a meet to go discuss further later today. will provide updates as nes. that's from sarah huckabee sanders. i want to play before i get your grade on the white house response thus far, here is donald trump and the vearious ways he has talked about north korea starting june 30 and finishing august 22nd. >> the era of strategic patients with the north korean regime has failed. many years it's failed and frankly that patience is over. the north korea better not make anymore threats to the united states. they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. i can tell you what i said,

that's not strong enough. some people said it was too strong. it's not strong enough. but kim jong-un, i respect the fact that i believe he is starting to respect us. i respect that fact very much. respect that fact. and maybe, probably not, but maybe something positive can come about. >> malcolm, is that stance working? >> no. that stance is not working. i challenge everyone to actually play that clip back and imagine kim jong-un making every one of those statements. they play in both directions. donald trump is the perfect foil for north korea. north korea accelerates its atomic weapons program every time there's a as they view it, a prov vation comes from the united states. they has allowed them to use his

statements as stepping stones. now they have debt naded a thermonuclear bomb, a hydrogen bomb which is ten times more powerful than anything they had done before and they actually publicly displayed weaponized models of these devices. they're now on the international stage as a nuclear power and they know anything shy of negotiation or china pressuring them, they can ignore donald trump at this point. the ball's in their court. i think they're going to keep the ball. >> gordon, what do you also make of donald trump, the third part of his tweet to essentially go after south korea, call them appeasers. south korea issued a -- aggressive response against north korea's reckless provocation based on solid defense -- military must be totally ready for any additional -- why would donald trump attack them? >> there's a couple things going on. he wants to terminate the u.s.

south korea free trade agreement. people are saying it's probably going to happen this coming week? >> is that wise? >> it is never wise for a lot of reasons but certainly not wise at this particular time. trump has a point that this treaty has in the really helped the american economy has it should. south korea has been cheating on it. we do this not because we're going to get trade benefits. we do this because it maintains peace and stability in north asia which is one of the most voltal parts of the world. what trump is trying to do is highlight that the south korean president does want to giver a lot of money to the north koreans in circumstances that are probably not very good for the international community. trump, yeah, he's right technically, but the point is you shouldn't say it tib publicly. they should be having back door diplomacy because this is something to keep the alliance strong. >> last one. secretary of defense mattis on

wednesday, was asked by a reporter are we out of diplomatic collusions on north korea? he said no. americans are waking up worried this morning. is it in mattis we trust at this point for some sort of sane u turn in u.s. policy? >> very often the people most reluctant to go to wore are those who have gone to war. mattis understands the military equation in the northeast. i think you'll be very hard pressed to find any sitting military commander who would recommend a military option against north korea. yes, you can do this. yes, we practice this. you can do coordinated strikes to take out north korea's test site, take out the nuclear facilities. that's not the question. the question is what happens next? and then north korea -- it gets to the spy. north korea is not syria. the you hit north korea they're going to hit back and that could trigger, as mattis himself has

pointed out, the most horrendous war in living memory. you're talking about world war ii style of combat and casualties. that's why, while there may be military options, there are no military solutions to the crisis. >> wow. all right. that's unsettling. but on that unsettling note we're going to have to end this segment. thank you very much. we'll be back. up next, a decision trump is about to make that could tear nearly 1 million families apart.

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mr. president. a decision on daca? is. >> sometime today or over the weekend we'll have a decision. >> do dreamers be worried? >> we love the dreamers.

we love everybody. the thank you very much. >> donald trump says he lives the dreamers but on tuesday he may end the program known as daca which allows a million young people to live and work in this country without fear of deportation. joining me now, our attorney, and kerry sheffield and our colleague. thank you guys for being here. let's start with you. your thoughts on whether or not you think it's likely just based on the chatter you're hearing. you are an attorney. do you think it's likely that donald trump ends daca on tuesday? >> i think based on what we know about donald trump, i think if he keeps it, it will have very little to do with his supposed heart for these young people or any type of empathy because we've never seen that from him unless directly related to his own interest or his family. i think this weekend is giving him an idea of what the ferocious pushback might look like.

this whole deadline is arbitrary. it's just because texas and these other states threatened to sue a lawsuit. there's no deadline. a stunt, they are challengek donald trump and for some who came to power by telling the american people he was an expert businessman, it's es ston nishing that he feels to cave. >> we just put up texas, nebraska, tennessee was part of the lawsuit but the tennessee attorney general pulled out of the this potential lawsuit. it hasn't been filed yet. so kerry, you now have business leaders who have come out against the idea of ending daca. mark zuckerberg came out against it. you had 1800 publish officials come out and sign a letter saying don't do it. you've got a pretty full floated

pop zigs. why should he do it. >> i think there are serious legal questions about what daca is. the supreme court upheld an injunction against daca because this was a jurisdiction, that barack obama did not have jurisdiction to do something that congress could do. . the economics of it i can see why companies want to have cheap labor, the fact of the matter is these people are driving down blue collar wages for trump voters and african-americans. this is a failure of the democratic party to protect low-skilled high school dropouts or high school attainment african-american workers. this is a major problem. i think there are a lots of issues at stake. moodies has -- when you look at social security. we need to preserve it. >> wait -- >> sh -- 91% of paying into

social security so thr are shoring up. >> when you look at the effects of immigration on the states. i -- >> talking about immigration broadly or da drchlt a? >> illegal immigrants here here. the most low skilled. about 50% are high school dropouts or high school only. we need to be much more deliberate about who we let into the country. i am all for more immigrants. we need of all colors, black white, latino, poke ca dot, any race. i think like canada, there is a report from a canadian analyst looking at basically canada is so strict on who they let into the country yet they have more immigrants but they are both focussed on educational. 50 percent have a college. >> let me let -- you've put a lot there on the table. we have both a ca nade yants immigrant and someone who is a

financial analyst. >> i'm a double im grant. i immigranted as a baby to canada and then to the united states. let me tell you what happens in canada. they let reef eujies in as a much higher rate america does. my excellent friend never bring up canada. google, $121,000. and fwo and -- this isn't about cheap labor. issue number 3, united states has a negative worker relace imt rate which means we have to have immigrants. if you're looking at the basket of undocumented immigrants and focussed on the worst, this is the opposite side of that equation. the average age, 26, some as old as 36, came in at the age of 6, all speak english. 45% in school. most of them working, and if they commit a crime, we get to

track them because of this visa and they get thrown out of the country. there is possibly no better group of undocumented immigrants that you actually want in the country. so kerry you and i speak the same language from the perspective of economics and gth.dp growth which you talked about. we need more workers. we need them to be productive. one final thing. let's say i'm a daca person. 26 years old. i'm making money legally above the table this. is for me, this is for the government. this is probably for the government. all that deficit, this part a spend to make companies hire people. i'm good for the economy any way 0 you slice this. the ending daca doesn't make sense and to the final point, let congress do it, make it completely legal. throwing the pea people out is not the solution.

>> the legal underpinning of daca is sound. grounded in statutory law. as recently as 2012 held in u.s. v arizona that it's constitution because the federal government has brought in powers and discretion over immigration enforcement. the fact we have the faith community, business, liberals republican lawmakers coming out against it, it really doesn't make sense we have all of these people on one side. but what's very troubling is one way of ending this does make sense if you look at it as part of a broader white nationalist zen a phobic strategy. the bannon influence, steven miller, that's really the only way it makes sense. there's something identify ron n -- and not to mention the fact that texas is a state with the second largest -- highest number of dreamers and houston the

number -- >> i hope we can have a conversation without accusing people are being. >> on-- >> caesar. >> you're mixes so many different things? >> i'm fonting. >> let's go -- >> documented -- >> he saw what they did to the legal immigrants. the it drives down the wages. >> one of the undocument the in the union who is not against illegal immigration. >> i saw what it did to the -- >> but ir ear -- wait. you've derailed the conversation. we're not going to take about caesar. on the point that is were made, let's go back to ally's first point. in terms of the productivity, talking about 91% of whom are employed, 45% in school. this is not loskill immigration. you mix those together. separate out just daca.

people employed, who have to pay the government in order to be in the program so actually giving money. the working, meaning they're paying into social security. the in what way are they hurting the economy. >> when you look at huffington post, only 15% of these are enrolled in college. >>er this' working. >> but they're working in low-skill -- >> no. the da kr. a are working as first responders, law enforcement in communities where the police need spanish speakers. they're in medical school. young people, they are the most among the most constrikative and productive people in this country. we shouldn't even think of them as who we're letting into the country. they're here. the they are among us. aet he not as though we're setting up a gateway to the enentry. what donald trump will do to these young people is put them immediately at risk for detings immigration prison and removal from the country. we know that because so far immigration arrests of

non-criminals are up 150%. that's what donald trump will do to these young people. >> let me ask a specific question to kerry. the question here is not legalization. this is the federal government making decisions on who they prioritize deportation for. right? and in the case of daca they're simply saying we're not going to prioritize you if it you came into the country as a child. if you meet all of these criteria, we're not going to prioritize you. >> i think it's leveling the playing field because we need a system based on accomplishment and merit not based on the fact that your parents came into the country illegally the merit is a high school graduate lonely. >> that's the minimum. >> the "new york times" also reported these daca applications are spraining the system.

what's happening is you have a high school student or high school only attain. basically clogging the system so a high school ph.d. student super-india won'tk in our system. >> let me-- >> if i could say about canada too. there is an essay by jonathan tupperman where he calls the system ruthlessly smart. only 50% of canadian immigrants -- i'm saying 50% of canadian immigrants have -- stop. stop many stop. stop stop stop. every needs to stop talking. we're going to take a break. i'm going to come back. comfortable you are in it.

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based merit based system as kerry describes. the difference is because they have implemented what america would think of as immigration reform, what it has done is permit canada to continue a long standing habit of taking entirely untrained refugees in this. when we're talking about high school education or higher, chaends has been taking in 25,000 refugees a year without any regard to their skills or training and double thad number to 5,000 and has continued to increase that number. the canada sees its merit based reform as an avenue to take in a whole lot more people who it needs. they have one fundamental reization. is that like america existing canadian citizens don't have enough children. things like social security and the tacks that young workers pay to benefit old workers is going to run out over time if not taken care of by bringing more

workers in. that is what daca achieves. you said only a few of them are in college but 45% of them are in school. some are as old as old, they're. if you had to cherry pick. if canada were to say let's get rid of these daca people, wore could they possibly go, i bet canada would say we'll take them. they're productive members of society. when you think about gdp growth which this president likes to talk about, the bottom line is that is a combination of labor and productivity. what you have in daca workers is labor and productivity and for purposes of undocumented immigrants, if that's of massive concern from safety and legality perspective, daca people are tracked. if they commit a felony, they're out of the country, have to renew the permit every two years. i am having trouble finding from economic perspective only the bad part about this. >> carrie, let's focus on daca, not on undocumented immigrants

broadly. if you go through, 91% of employed. of those employed, 56% were not part of daca. 45% are in school. many that are not in college or employed are in high school, they're kids. 65% who are in school attain those opportunities after daca. 72% pursue at least a bachelor's degree. to your point we need higher skilled immigrants, they fit that bill. >> they don't in terms of the threshold is to have high school degree only. >> minimal. >> this is my problem. we both agree that canada is -- >> we established those in school -- >> those that are not in school. they're average 25 years old. >> 91% are employed. we are not talking low skilled employment. 72% pursuing a degree pursue bachelor's are higher.

statistics are against you in this. >> again, i don't think having immigration policy based on whether your parents entered the country illegally or not is rationale. it should be based as outlined in canada, color blind, merit based system. that's what we need. that's not what daca is. this is based on your parents entering illegally. i shouldn't get his treasure because he was an illegal bank robber. >> it is not based on your parents, it is based on the idea that you did not enter the country illegally, you were brought here. for all of the talk about canada and all the talk about ruthlessly efficient immigration system per saw, let's put that aside and say i for one don't want a ruthlessly efficient system or however you describe canada, i want a system that's humane, constructive for the country and economy, i want a system that's compassionate. so do 75% of trump voters who support continuing daca. these republicans, state

attorneys general leading this potential lawsuit don't even have backing of conservatives in their own state. remember the lawsuits that went forward against the affordable care act? you have 26 states, all republican states against you because there wasn't that type of -- it was a real issue to them. this potential lawsuit against daca, we must stop about it like either we have daca or congress acts. we can have both. >> we are out of time. i want to ask carrie, in the end do you think we should simply go forward and have comprehensive immigration reform very quickly? >> i would love to see something like that, love it to be merit based. >> we agree on comprehensive immigration reform. thank you very much. ali will be back. stay with us. more after the break. wondering, what if? i let go of all those feelings.

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donald trump's second trip to texas has some in the media

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gillette. the best a man can get. could this month be the moment where he pivots and unifies the nation during its time of crisis. >> only if he goes into trump tower, locks himself in, sends out a different person that isn't donald trump, maybe his name is donald trump but who is a completely different person, then maybe that person can pivot and become the president we need. he is this guy. and he isn't going to become presidential. he's donald trump. >> welcome back to "am joy." donald and melania trump got a second chance to make a first

impression, offering presidential comfort to texas and louisiana saturday. even taking selfies with some of the victims of hurricane harvey. for trump, the focus was lesson death toll of 42 and the long road to recovery, but on whether he could pass the presidential empathy test, a test many thought he failed first time around. again, had to give it a second try. you normally don't have to give it a second try. the second time must be the charm. trump's jolly comforter in chief act this time around caused the media to swoon. yes, there he is, engaging with real life americans at the massive center in houston, military men in uniform, distressed parents, and babies, babies, babies. joining me, conservative commentator kristin hag land, dean ogadala, and jennifer rubin of "the washington post."

thank you guys. you were forced to watch me two times, my team insisted putting me on the top of this block. i guess the point is, dean, there is a tick that's in my profession, in the media, where people really, really want donald trump to fit into the box of normal president. so whenever he does anything that looks like it is in the normal president box, there's a rush to say ah, this is the moment he has finally become president, look, he is comfo comforting people. what do you think that tick is about, and do you think donald trump will ever fulfill this need in the media? >> donald trump is the queen sur see of american politics. everything is calculated, even when he is ee moating human empathy, this is what human people do, donald trump. when he went there earlier in the work, what a great crowd. talking about congratulations.

this is donald trump. i know the media, not you, the big collective you, why the media is fixated getting donald trump to be presidential. it does not matter. i speak to progressives on my show every night, we will never forgive him for racism, bigotry. in that vacuum, that's a nice moment, this is president 101, going to a place of disaster, showing empathy, had to go back a second time. this is a man to us, there's nothing that's going to change it. i don't know what the media doesn't get the deep feelings of so many americans, why his disapproving numbers are high. there's not one instance that will change it. he will always be the donald trump we saw. i won't forget it. most of us will never forgive him for it. >> there was a thing that happened on the right, you had sebastian gorka, dr. sebastian g gorka with pictures of donald trump with a black child, this thrown out, i got a few tweets

on my time line, you liberals never accept when he shows empathy. if you took the pictures and added audio, the things he was saying as he is picking up the black child, doing the pictures, giving you the presidential pictures people want for the ap is things like they're happy in houston. listen to donald trump on saturday. >> really i think people appreciate what's been done, it has been done very evfficiently. they're happy with what's going on. it has been something that's been well received, even by you guys it has been well received. >> so the focus there again is on hey, it's been really well received, people are happy, like it is a show about donald trump rather than a tragedy that has befallen people. couple more quotes. have a good time, everybody, he says to reporters touring houston shelter, housing people that lost their homes, cars, livelihoods, have a good time,

everybody. he said i hear the coast guard saved almost 11,000 people by going into when the media wouldn't. >> he is the marketer in chief. if you look at his lifetime, his career and what he spent doing, it's been driving controversy, creating scandal. that's what's gotten him in papers, helped his brand. can be difficult for someone in a lifetime of doing that to totally switch. the difficult thing purely objectively is that this is kind of a lose-lose situation. president obama in trying to stay away, make sure he wasn't taking away from the rescue efforts in hurricane katrina, he was criticized for being cool and aloof. same with george w. bush. and george w. bush was criticized for the way he handled katrina when he was president as you mention, but presidents in the past were criticized on both accounts. people on either side find ways to criticize trump here.

but the fact remains that he needed to show true empathy, focusing on lives lost, focusing on highlighting the incredible number of heroes that went out, not just at first responders but average, everyday people that went there to help their fellow friends, neighbors, pets survive. that should have been the focus. i think he missed an opportunity to go beyond his comfort zone and focus on others. >> barbara bush, former first lady who was otherwise popular as a first lady, she got dinged in 2005 for saying when she went towards the astro dome where people had been evacuated away from hurricane katrina, many people were underprivileged anyway, so this is helping them. those things stick to you. george w. bush's response to katrina stuck to him. i wonder if, i don't know, i wonder if conservative media, breitbart world will try to rehabilitate donald trump based

on just pictures without the sound of what they were able to get out of his second time to texas and whether you think that will help him in some way. >> i think you saw yesterday in some coverage in the conservative media where breitbart had home page, front page pictures of donald trump comforting those in houston. so there's certainly an effort to promote that image, not necessarily as you pointed out the words. the reality, he is expected to announce decision whether he will keep or dump the daca program. the situation unfolding with north korea. i think on some level usually when you have a storm of the magnitude of what happened in houston, that would be the only story we would be talking about. in this presidency there are three, four, five things simultaneously unfolding that are very important, that warrant that type of attention that will play a larger role in how conservative media and how the american people evaluate this

president. when i think about donald trump in houston, it's almost like an out of touch person going to a museum, viewing people almost as an exhibit, he is so far removed from what they're going through, has such a fundamental not able to connect and understand and comprehend the suffering that's going on. so when he walks through these type of places, i feel like i am watching someone at a museum watching people as an exhibit. >> i think i have the same sort of gut reaction to it, jennifer. but you also saw the staffing at work, they traded melania trump's flotus hat for a texas hat. donald trump had hats he has for sale in his hand when he got on air force one, but at least when he got there, he took the hat off, took selfies with people. they're handing already made meals, not like they were putting food on plates, the food was already made, just passed from the hands of melania to hands of donald trump to the

hands of a person. they weren't actually helping, it is just they got the optics of looking like they handed someone food. i don't know. maybe it is just that i am made cynical by the way washington works, but why does that kind of obvious optics work so well on the media? >> i have no idea. i think it is ridiculous. what struck me about this is that these are people that never volunteer, they never do charity, don't spend their own money. this is a completely new experience for them. in the past when we have seen people like michelle obama, we've seen people like both bushes, they empathize, cry with them. donald trump is happy happy. you know why? he thinks it is helping his presidency. he makes a remark during this episode where he says this is just wonderful. no, it's not wonderful. it's horrible. but he's happy because it's all about him. i think his personality is a

narcissistic one, leave it to others to say whether it is a political condition or not, but he is incapable of receiving from the scene, putting other people first and feeling human emotion. his emotional outlook, what he was demonstrating to us was at odds with his surroundings. these are people that are suffering, lost everything. he is grinning ear to ear? >> one of my brilliant producers dean said if you think about donald trump, his ethical basis, good for trump, good. bad for trump, bad. kind of shakes down that way. maybe because if you look at the pictures of joplin, missouri, when president obama went to joplin, there's like sort of a -- i don't know, maybe because he has younger children, he is a father, maybe because he grew up in difficult circumstance, he can relate to want, i don't know what it is. there was something sort of demonstratively different, even about george w. bush, very

privileged. there's some crumb of humanity there. >> i think it is lack of humanity. when president obama came after superstorm sandy, and hugged people, emotion he had, everyone felt it. it was real. besides the optics, what i wish they would call on is his hypocrisy of the budget in may, cut $700 million for grants for the next city to be repaired. he brings ben carson there, ben carson is here, head of hud, we are going to rebuild places, $3 billion in grants for that. in his budget he cuts every penny for low income housing to be rebuilt after disaster. there's not just optics, there are policies donald trump is advocating that show the hypocrisy of this big smile while he hurts the next place to be effected. >> and you have for the republican party a moment of truth. you've had highlighted the deregulation that republicans have done in texas which made

this matter worse. talk about hud, it is being disman teld under ben carson. how does the republican show itself as the compassionate, they're in charge of everything. >> the political capital is changing the winds, forcing people to look at each other and say we need to work together to find common sense solutions to things, we need to increase bipartisanship, because this isn't helping anyone, as well as climate change. it increases stronger, warmer storms and more devastating hurricanes from an economic perspective. the thing is, he wants to keep the focus on him and knows he is slipping. general approval ratings are down. in the past week dropped 7% among conservatives, nine points among whites without a college degree, his base. this he is hoping will lift him up. >> and curt, the big change that donald trump was supposed to have brought to republican politics was this quote, unquote

populism, how do you square that, if he is going to deregulate, cut taxes for the wealthy, is the base of the republican party, the new base that's open to getting government services be like wait a minute, we need populism here, meaning money for people who are struggling? >> i think they're going to realize they have been sold a bill of goods here. donald trump may talk like a quote, unquote pop list, but his policies only benefit the elite, privileged people like him. there's such a disconnect between what he talks about and what the substance of policies end up being. what happened in houston is a great example. the epa, person running it is put there to destroy it, cut the budget by more than 25%. we have now a situation where the epa is important. there's a chemical situation where wia plant exploded and th epa is not on the ground. why is that. there are human consequences to policy and funding decisions that trump is making that hurts

the people he is posing for pictures with. >> indeed. we will watch it unfold. thank you guys. great panel. coming up, ali velshi versus art lapper on trump's tax plan. get a cup of coffee real quick. you don't want to miss a second of that. ♪ hey grandpa. hey, kid. really good to see you. you too. you tell grandma you were going fishing again? maybe. (vo) the best things in life keep going. that's why i got a subaru, too. introducing the all-new crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek. and the wolf huffed like you do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe.

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reform in springfield, missouri, birthplace of route 66, commonly referred to as main street of america. offering a populous pitch he says will slash the tax rate for companies and be a boom for lower and middle class americans. we haven't seen specifics of who would get those besides the very rich, how much they would be, and how to pay for it all. instead, all we have seen on trump's plan is a bare bones, one page outline that leaves it to lawmakers to fill in the blanks. back with me, ali velshi, and arthur lapper, former economic adviser to president ronald reagan. thank you for being here. looking forward to this debate all morning. >> that i think, joy. >> art lapper, i am going to you first on the plan. here it is, you probably can't see it in the monitor, but it is a one page plan. its goals are grow the economy, simplify the tax code, provide tax relief to american families, especially low income families,

and lower the tax rate from one of the highest to one of the lowest. do you see how that gets done? >> yes, i do. first of all, i don't want to be against ali velshi. i have been on a number of shows with ali, i think he is wonderful. i think we all sought the truth, beauty and the american way all the time. so yes, one thing that's really important, joy, is cut the corporate tax rate. what he says specifically time and time again is from 35% to 15%. that to me is enough specifics for the president to put forth to create jobs, output employment and production, the whole goal we all have, the best form of welfare is still a good high paying job. america needs economic growth badly as ali said in the last segment, and i think he's right, and i think this is the way to go. cut corporate tax rate to 15%, let the congress deal with all the other stuff. >> ali velshi, your witness. >> so the flattery gets art everywhere, he is fantastic and i love him, too. >> thank you. >> i have a goal to get from 195

pounds to 180 pounds. i had this goal several years, but it remains a goal and an aspiration. there isn't a plan, it is not as easy to get there as i hoped and it will cost me to get to that point. that's what this looks like to me. the only difference between my plan and donald trump's plan, i am honest about weighing 195 pounds. there's not many companies in america paying 35%. depending how you measure it, it is 27 or 28%. i don't disagree with art it would be even better to lower tax rates, everybody wants to pay lower taxes, businesses and individuals. let me say it this way. companies so profitable in america and have so much money that generally speaking, particularly large companies can't expand if they wanted to. they have the ability to access credit or cash to build another plant, employ more people. there are reasons why they don't do that, and they're complicated reasons, it is not a given by reducing taxes they will suddenly do that. what you may end up with is a

hole. collect less in tax money and it doesn't stimulate the economy the way the president and art hope it would. >> art, let me ask you that question. if i am a corporation and you lower my tax rate, why wouldn't i just pocket the money or use it to pay more dividends to the ceo, who is paid mostly in stock? >> let me respond to ali's first comment about the effective tax rate, which he is completely correct, he overestimates the effective tax rate. they have it down to about 13 plus% as the effective tax rate. >> why do they need to lower it? >> they use loopholes, shelters, tax evasion, different corporate forms, keep money abroad. when you lower the tax rate, shelters become less attractive, they decide to pay their taxes. the numbers are very clear if you look at the academic literature, if you cut the tax rate, shelters go down and revenues go up as do jobs. >> that's the part we're missing, the sudden where you

make that connection to suddenly they'll use that to hire more people. isn't the experience in the economy, give the corporations more money, they simply pocket the money. they don't hire more, they pocket the money. >> in 1986, we cut the highest rate from 46% to 34%. >> can you compare that to marginal tax? let me let ali answer that. >> go ahead, ali. >> why don't they just pocket the money? >> one of the great examples i love to use with art, he is so smart, been around a long time, the idea is it would take tax rates down and create jobs. former governor sam brownback said it would be four years, they would see 100,000 jobs. they lowered taxes on art's advice specifically and a state of about 3 million people created just 28,000 jobs between january of 2014 and the same time in 2017. we are a year short but way

below that. over in nebraska which has a yet smaller population of 2 million people, didn't cut taxes, job growth in the same period was 35,000. i don't know, there's no evidence if you cut corporate taxes that it results in job growth at this level. art very wisely cites 1986 and much bigger cut. that's not actually what we are talking about. i want to point out, art, we are old friends, i don't know why you didn't take issue with how fat i was. i appreciate you not discussing that. >> what can i say, a chubby ali is a very nice ali. >> he looks great. i want you to answer his question. if you look at the experience of kansas, they did what you said, they cut the corporate tax rate and it did not result in job creation. what happened? >> kansas is an example of itself, they have a lot of other things, it was a small cut. but i don't want to do that. if you look at all the states, stop doing just anecdotes, look at all of the states, states with the lowest tax rates have

the best economic growth. >> california and new york. california and new york have phenomenal economic growth. >> look at california and new york. look at also florida. look at nevada. look at tennessee. let's look at all of the states together. >> did you know florida has a better economy than california or new york? i don't think it does. >> of course it does, has much better growth. so does nevada and tennessee. tennessee compared to tennessee. i did a book called the wealth of states that looks at all 50 states in the last 50 years. if you look at it, it is unambiguous, states that lowered tax rates are doing better, those that adopted the income tax have done worse. >> ali? >> so art is good at this. he lives in tennessee, he is from california. he likes to make the comparisons. let's go back, i used to point out that mozambique has the best growth in the world. 17%. right? but mozambique is a tiny country with tiny gdp. when you take new york and

california and add in florida and nevada. >> texas. >> you said kansas, you don't like that example because there are other things going on, this isn't necessarily apples to apples. >> yes, it is, you can do apples to apples, ali, please, if you go to my book, it is 400 pages, i try to across the board look at the last 50 years. it is clear. yes, there are examples go one way or the other. look at illinois, connecticut, wisconsin, michigan. >> but before we go, it is a wash. >> it is not. >> i don't see the evidence of it. i want to get to quickly one quick thing we have to talk about, too, the other thing donald trump is talking about is getting rid of the estate tax, would definitely benefit the trump family. you see that benefit the super rich. how do you justify the idea of cutting that kind of tax on 400,000 very rich people, including the president himself? >> because you get him to stop using tax shelters and pay their

taxes and not stop working. i am 77 years old, joy. as of a couple days ago. i work for my grandchildren and great grandchildren. that's why i work. you take away that ability of me to give money to my grandchildren, i'll just quit and you lose a lot of revenues, well, not a lot. >> i don't think i will live to see the day art quits. when the president made a speech, one of the first thing he said i am going to enact laws that hurt me, help other people but will hurt me, it is clear getting rid of the estate tax is very beneficial to the trump family. >> i am going to rule from the chair that both ali velshi and art laffer look marvelous. i appreciate you both being here. great debate. thank you very much. we will bring you back. watch ali velshi on weekends, 24 hours a day on msnbc, but specifically at 11:00 a.m. and

3:00 p.m., you must watch. that's at 12:30. every day here on msnbc. today on msnbc. coming up, donald trump declares this a national day of prayer. but some religious leaders might need to brush up on their scriptures. it's sunday. that's next. how do you chase what you love with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis? do what i did. ask your doctor about humira.

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i just want to thank you all for being with us today because we're going to be signing a day of prayer and that will be on sunday. that will be a very special day.

i don't know when this was done last, but it has been a long time ago. is that a correct statement? >> that's correct. >> we know. following his proclamation, many churches are likely united in prayer as we speak for those effected by the storm. the victims of this hurricane need money and housing. several local faith leaders answered that call, opening up houses of worship, including local mosques to shelter victims. one houston pastor waded out to check submerged vehicles to make sure no one was trapped inside. but wealthy megachurch pastor joel osteen came under fire this week for giving various excuses for keeping doors to his church which could hold more than 16,000 people closed. he only opened to evacuees after initially not offering anything but prayers by his twitter account. joining me, frank schaefer, author of why i am an atheist

who believes in god. and mark burns, pastor at harvest praise and worship center, member of donald trump's evangelical council. i want to start by asking the idea that donald trump feels like he innovated national day of prayer, that's not true i take it? >> that's not true, it started under president eisenhower with billy graham, that started in 19 1950 or '51. >> happens every year, annual day of prayer may 4th, that's the day there's national day of prayer. my great team, president barack obama named memorial day 2016 as national day of prayer. so it happens all the time. donald trump didn't make that up. one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you, you wrote a piece in response to the joel osteen kerfuffle in which he did not open the astro dome. 16,000 people it can fit. until he was dragged on social

media and in the media for not opening his church. wrote the cheap prosperity gospel of trump and osteen. their brands are rooted in success, not scripture. hurricanes and floods do not providing winning narrative crucial to keep adherence chained to prosperity gospel thinking. that's why it is easy for both men to issue platitudes instead of empathy. they lack compassion for people that are not prosperous because they didn't follow the rules. why link donald trump to prosperity goes well with osteen? >> it is important to say what that is so listeners understand. it is a belief rooted in capitalism that uses scriptures to say you can become rich if you follow god's word basically. the reason you add donald trump to prosperity gospel, most of those people are prosperity

gospel people. paula white, other followers behind him that are prosperity goes wegospel. the ones he calls for prayer are prosperity gospel people. if we remember during the election, joel osteen said he was a wonderful man but didn't endorse him. i thought it was important to put the two of them together because they have similar backgrounds, both inherited their father's businesses, both of them are the 1%. both of them actually sell themselves as a way to show to be successful, you must do what i do. i think it is important at this particular time to think about the people of houston, think about what they need and what their needs are because i am a house tonian, i am worried about what it did to the city i love. i was appalled at joel osteen and the way donald trump said yesterday not empathetically,

looks like everybody is joyful and having fun. how are you having fun sleeping on the couch and everything you own is underwater. yeah, this is about empathy. >> mark burns, i think what a lot of people look at donald trump but his evangelical circle around him, paula whites, joel osteens, franklin graham, there's a sense that when you read the plain word of jesus, it is about loving the poor, about welcoming the stranger, about tending to the needy, the widow and the orphan, but on the other side you've got these evangelicals for donald trump that seem to be much more about sofling the wealthy, criticizing people that are poor being their fault. how do you square that as a pastor that is for donald trump. >> joy, i can tell you i agree with you wholeheartedly, jesus did speak about feeding the poor, jesus did speak about loving those that are

unfortunate and for me again i'm no prosperity preacher. i hate that term that's been coined. i preach the gospel of jesus christ, that includes feeding the poor, helping the disenfranchised, also includes the same word jesus said. jesus said i've come that you might have life and have it more abundantly, that there is principles of jesus that if we follow the blessings of god are conditional. the love of god is unconditional. there's a responsibility for those of us who preach the whole gospel, meaning including hell and sin. >> wait. did you just say if you follow the word of god, there are financial remunicipaler agency that come, financial blegsings come from that? >> it is important to understand that i think it is important to understand it is not just about a financial reward because god

wants your mind first before he ever blesses you with money. god wants your heart first. he wants to make sure those who do follow the rules and plans of the holy scriptures, that your heart be sold out to jesus first so when you are in a place of authority, when you are in a place of blessing that you don't just push others down, but you're in position to turn around and help people out. >> do you think he was right to keep it closed until he was forced to open it? do you think he was wrong to keep his church closed? >> i think the critics of joel osteen, i am appalled tikrit imcompetents of joel os steteen. the critics of joel osteen didn't show up to help the flood until they first saw water. joel osteen and his family has been in houston, helping families for decades. they didn't start showing up when the water showed up, they have been in that community,

helping people for years. let me say this. he doesn't pack up that dome with 20, 30,000 people because he is hurting people. he packs it out because he has been helping people, and that's a testimony by itself that he obviously has been a major player in blessing the poor, blessing the needy, helping people that are disenfranchised. you put any critic against the record of joel osteen's record in reference to helping people, i'll take joel osteen's record any day. >> let me let frank schaefer into this. you come from this background, this world that your father was very much involved in in terms of this sort of prosperity ministry, this kind of evangelicalism. what do you make of the joel osteen affair here? >> it's interesting you bring up my dad, the theologian, francis schaefer. i grew up with my parents in a small mission, back before he became a religious right leader,

before he got famous, before mom started hanging out with the presidential families, the bush family, jack kemp, who was a vice presidential candidate and so forth. long before that, we were in a small mission. one of my dad's big points was we don't ask for money and people that think god only blesses you if you're good or if you follow him or if you give money to certain ministry, dad had a word for that, that was her he is ee. their bottom line is success in the capitalistic material terms. old fashioned evangelicals like my father, god bless him who i agree with much of his religious right stuff these days and moved beyond it, harsh critic of the evangelical movement, here's a guy without a secretary. worked on the edge of his bed in a rocking chair saying the money we bring in has to go back into the lord's work to help people. joel osteen lives in a 10 to $15 million house. he is one of these con artists

like so many in the evangelical world, all about send me money, god will bless you. when they talk about themselves, look how god blessed me, the trouble with houston or all catastrophes, it doesn't fit in with the osteen trumpian view of look at me, look how successful i am. you can be like me if you go to trump university in terms of trump's con game, if you come to my church in terms of joel osteen and other evangelical guys. i am missing church with my grandchildren, i am not religious, i am not evangelical any more, but osteen and these people in terms of the old time evangelical gospel are heretics. they preach of jesus that hasn't come to minister to the poor, did not say blessed are the poor and the meek.

osteen and trump come from the capitalist american idea of success. their gospel is the gospel of blessed are those that triumph other others and get rich. this is not what jesus preached. i am no longer evangelical. if my dad were here, he disagrees with a lot of what i say these days, he is dead, but if he was here, he would be totally on board with what i'm saying here, so would any evangelical who comes out of a past that was about actually minimum sterg to people and not raising money from them, not conning them into this success idea of what life is supposed to be about. >> i wish we had more time for this panel. i am going to remain for us, we want you guys to come back. thank you for being here. appreciate everybody. coming up at the top of the hour, this morning donald trump was asked by reporters if he was going to attack north korea. his response, we'll see.

alex witt will have more on that. next on "am joy," the potential danger in the air unleash by harvey. stay with us.

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non toxic -- they're noxious certainly. you mean the smoke? i don't know the competition of the smoak but it's certainly noxious. >> are you going to say -- yes or no. i think it's a pretty important -- >> the smoke is noxious, its

toxicity is a relative thing. >> so just how tox iks is the smack smoke released into the air after flooding triggered explosions in the arkema chemical plant? with more explosions expected at the plant, crosby residents are left in the dark. arkema is refusing to disclose the amount of chemicals on the site or kcomposition or locatio or how stored. of companies are legally allowed to keep that information from the public. joining me tnow. thank you. arkema is not telling reporters even though they promised though would, they're now claiming terrorism is the reason they won't say it. what we do 0 know that the

damage can be caused, can irrita irritate skin, larger amounts can cause liver damage. the company is claiming issues of combustion event not a chemical release. do you believe that the people that live near there are in danger? i. >> i deaf yachtly do. also our first responders many in instances get very nervous moving in to these situations. >> we also know toxic waste sites from flooded in the houston area. metro area is home to more than a dozen superfund sites. many of them are now blooded. that's an additional risk. is there any way for people to know what the dangers are there when they -- >> well there's going to be have to be analysis done and unfortunately the administration has been cutting the budgets so it's going to make it much more

difficult. >> if you're got an administration that's cutting the budgets, de laying. a state that says that the companies can have whatever they want, what is it that protect as homeowner within 10 miles? >> that's why we have to make sure they're opening up the doors. this administration has been trying to close those opportunities. that's a very dangerous situation to be in. folks into ed to know. what's happening inside of their communities and what they can be exposed to. >> i think what people need to understand is texas has become sort of a chemical mecca. one of the largest corridors for chemical storage and production in the company. who tends to live mere the places? >> communities of color, low income and even indigenous populations. the manchester community in houston you can go into those backyards and touch the plants

and piping that's right there. its amazing. if most folks now that excisioned this would be dism dismayed and very disenheartened at our country. >> is part of the issue that developers are not created from creating housing literally on top of these plants? >> exactly. the zoning issues are huge. planning issues are huge. unfortunately with more storms coming, folks are going to be in dangerous situations, and they usually place low income housing in the flood planar ya because it is cheaper. >> we saw ben carson accompany donald trump for that photo op. the hud isn't exactly getting a lot of money from this administration. nor is the epa is that combination something we should be concerned about for low income community? >> it's an extremely lel cat situation they're placing folks in. >> community development block

grants. >> all these huge cuts are going to create a situation where our most vulnerable communities are going to get double and triple. >> we now see communities in houston without water. are you concerned this administration won't do much? >> they've cut many programs water related. both drinking water and other folks may have contaminated wells. we've got some serious situations. i hope this is an opportunity that the president now takes that he's paying to attention to the folks on the ground. may attention pot folks in the manchester and port arthur. make sure the water and air are protected. >> i think we're out of time. but can we get you to tell us for our facebook community and on line where people can go for information if if they can't go to the government. >> definitely. thank you very much. that is our show fortoday. aim joy will be back next

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