>> good morning. it is monday, september 4th. happy labor day. did we have a good labor day weekend? >> of course. >> all kind of working here. >> i can't believe that thing happened. >> i know. crazy weekend. all right. with us we have hjohn meech um who spent the weekend reading old books. >> right now you're in 1787? >> yes. >> you're digging with madison's life? >> yes. >> chills. >> stop it. this is kind of like "dun kirk".

i had chills, but it's the sort of thing, you actually have to be read into it to understand. >> that's why he spends most of his time in a darkroom. >> with all my friends. >> i kind of felt your pain, john, because my daughter said did you like the movie? i go of course i liked the movie. it's all the things all the stories i bore you about at the dinner table about britain, 1940, saving western civilization. >> our moment of great, you're good for a couple of centuries. you saved western civilization. you saved the world from hitler. >> all right. >> and now they're teaching you end of empire. >> stop it. >> washington anchor for "world news america" katty kay. and big news coming up with katty. and from the london school of economics and author, brian clops is with us as well.

>> also a twins fan. >> indeed. >> as the house and the senate return from august recess, there is a daunting agenda awaiting them on capitol hill. and now you can add disaster relief from hurricane harvey into the mix. the top leaders of the house and senate are scheduled to meet with president trump this week at the white house. they'll likely have to address a preliminary plan that would slash disaster funding to help finance the president's bordered wall. clearly the di namices of change since the floods hit texas. ols on the to do list, passing a stopgap spending bill to avert a government shutdown, increasing the government's borrowing authority to prevent a default. and laying the rewrite of the nation's tax code. not a lot to do. not a lot to worry about. >> these are all defense. they want to repeal obamacare. they want to pass tax reform, but katty, let's talk about the

wall. when last week you had the head of the freedom caucus saying, wall scmall. they're saying we're not going to shut down the government to give donald trump money for the wall that nobody needs. >> right, and the president is saying yes, that's something he considers a possibility. everybody now seems to accept except from the white house officially that mexico is not going to pay for this wall. sara huckabee sanderings was asked about that. he said the president didn't say that mexico wasn't going to pay for the wall. they twisted themselves into this ridiculous situation where he spent all that time saying we're going to have the wall. we're going to get the mexicans to pay for it. the mexicans aren't paying for it and the republicans are saying we don't want to pay for this wall either. >> john, illegal immigration is down. >> yeah. >> mexicans -- >> they're going back. they're leaving. >> mexicans that came here and went across the border illegally are going home.

i mean, more are going home than coming here. this suspect the huge up surge we saw during the bush and obama administration, and they were starting to go back before donald trump ran for president. >> long before. >> are you suggesting that facts are dispositive for a trump platform? >> i don't want to go there quite yet. that said -- >> okay. i know we need a moment. >> that said, build that wall. >> based on alternative facts. >> it was just -- yeah, it was based on alternative facts, and even as general kelly said, a physical wall is not going to do the trick. >> it's all a scam. >> but the wall -- exactly. the wall prom and now the ensuing debate about the finances are a perfect metaphor for the entire drama of 2016/2017.

it's an effective communications political weapon. it's not particularly fact-based. it's probably never going to happen. and, yet, the 30 to 35% or so of hard core trump supporters are probably going to stick with him on it. >> it's also a question of how the president -- a reflection of how the president mismanaged his own party. in picking fights consistently with the republican party, when he needs them to do something that they don't want to do, and they watch his approval ratings sliding, they're less willing to help him on this one. >> he's got 52 senators, supposedly, on his side. and, yet, he lost three during the health care fight. he's now declared war on another, jeff flake who has absolutely no reason to ever stick his neck out for donald trump again, and he seems to be picking fights almost every day with mitch mcconnell.

>> we've never seen anything like this where there's been the party that controls the white house, the house and the senate be so ineffectual. we may have a lame duck president with three years left. how he legislates and signs it or don't. >> he's already issued a pardon. he's proved himself to be -- i would say, the harsher word is unhinged, but completely unpredictab unpredictable, and i would say most of his tweets and decisions lack forethought. i think it's way too generous as you said last week that he's actually working in tandem with mattis or tillerson. they're working despite him to try to run this country despite a completely unpredictable and at times unhinged bully as a president. >> opinions by mika brzezinski are not necessarily the opinions of our sponsors or management.

so katty, i want to follow up on what brian said about the republicans working around donald trump. if you are a republican -- yes, you can be upset at donald trump. you can besay he's been too reckless. it's not like the republicans in congress don't have the power to put together a health care bill. they've been bragging about it for years. t not like the heat's not on them as well. because they've been promising they're going to repeal obamacare for seven years. they don't need donald trump to do that. if they pass a bill, he'll sign it. >> look, it was to all purposes, the republican party that drew up the disastrous bill they couldn't get through. this was not a white house that was super engaged in policy and came to the republicans in congress and said here is our plan for a health care reform bill with detailed notes of how they wanted it implemented. that didn't happen over health care reform.

it probably won't happen over tax reform either. that bill belonged to the republican party, and as you say, they had seven years to try to come up with something they felt was good for the country and they could get through their members, that they could get support for and they failed to do so. >> while we're talking about campaign promises that were scams. we talked about donald trump and the wall. it's a gym immick. the other gimmick, the other scam which may be the most successful political promise that ended up being a scam in u.s. history was the promise of republicans that helped them gain 1,000 state legislative seats, 65 house seats, a dozen governorships, a dozen senate seats, and dominance in the american political system. and that is the repeal of

obamacare. they promised it in 2010. >> they promised it in 2012. >> they promised it in '14. they promised it in '16, and they promised it in every election inbetween. and they haven't been able to do it. despite the fact they have a monopoly of power in washington. >> uh-huh. i think we've sat around that morning and talked about how difficult it was going to be for obamacare to ever really be significantly taken on once john roberts ruled in favor of it. it's very difficult in american history once a program that benefits an extraordinary number of people gets into the bloodstream, it's very hard to reject it. and i think the, if you will, the intellectual pausety which may be a little nice about the republican alternative ideas on health care suggests that one wonders how really serious they

were about it. because it's, as you say, it's seven years. they had seven years to work on it. it was not a compelling piece of legislation when they finally consolidated power. and i think one of the ironies too and katty said trump is managing his party. point of fact, it's not his party. >> it's not. >> he's bucked it. he's hijacked it. >> and then he's not kept promises and even bullied some people in his own party. here's the question for the entire table. if you look at what happened with health care, what are the possibilities that anything will get done in -- after what we've seen in terms of the summer of trump and i'll try and encapsulate. i'm missing names. no more flynn, bannon, spicy, gorka, scaramucci came and went. you have ivanka, jared, miller, and kelly ann in there. that's your team with general kelly trying to bring order to

all of that. what's he bringing order to? who are these people, and you've got mueller looming. who's going to work with congress in the middle of that? >> where's the political person? >> mitch mcconnell is saying it, we're going to go it alone. >> and they should. every time trump weighs in on policy, he derails the debate. it's counterproductive. usually a president can crack the whip on their party. they'll say i'll work in a way that will be counter to your electoral interest. and that's scary. with trump it's not scary. he's the most unpopular president in this stage in his administration in u.s. history. as a result, people are starting to buck him openly. they know if he campaigns against them, it may work. >> he's also more popular. trump is still in several congressional districts democrats would like to take. it's not as easy as saying i can buck trump. we've seen people like jeff

flake, den heller, they've bucked trump and it's been disastrous. >> except we have so low -- the house race margin of victory was 37%. these people on the right are not that scared. they'll probably win against the democrat. in the middle they aren't scared of trump because they know there's a benefit. they know there's an interesting dynamic because of the polarization that's allowing people to come out against president trump that was impossible with popular presidents. >> john, you were talking about they really hadn't thought through the policy that much over the past seven years. the communication, the messaging is the worst that i've ever seen, the worst anybody has ever seen. donald trump just said give me a bill. >> right. >> there was no messaging out of the house. there was no mes samging out of the senate. the best messaging came from the

congressional budget office. and you just wait. 25 million without health care. 32 manage without health care. a lot of conservative commentators saying why are you repeating that. i say why isn't paul ryan or mitch mcconnell? why aren't the republicans in congress explaining that? >> right. >> in a way that americans will understand? they just couldn't. they didn't. >> it's an irrational market. one of the problems is that a lot of governor romney of massachusetts instituted something that's not unlike what we have now. the heritage foundation. i think i'm right about this, suggested individual mandate. 20 years ago. more than that now. so you have one problem which is john adams said yrvegs it, fact stubborn thing. health care an norm part of the

economy, and it's irrational because who's going to go to the doctor and say no, i don't want that. because you want to get well. it requires a remarkable level of political sophistication that right now i don't think our system is commensurate with that. >> all right. brian thank you very much. coming up our next guest says we already tried one of president trump's big tax ideas and it fell flat on its face. plus why she says the white house guys from goldman are likely making wall street very happy. that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪

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disappointed by congress. >> i will work with congress, but i hate congress. it's kind of what the message is sent. >> i'm going to bully them. >> also, i'm going to attack the most important person in congress, the most powerful person in mitch mcconnell. good luck. >> that was president trump unveiling his push for tax reform last week. joining us now, senior finance correspondent at business insider linnette lopez. also brad thor, he's out with "use of force". he's also been selected for this year's politico's 50 list. good to have you both here. brad, you are saying this fall with mag if i if i the president's weaknesses? >> i think you and mika have had two things right. joe you said in the beginning this stuff from trump was going to exhaust the nation. there's no way we can keep going with an outrage every day, and

mika repeatedly questioned and i think well, his personality and what flaws are there outside his character potentially up here. we heard people on the show last week talk about his narcissism, and i think that's a big issue here. i think as we get into the fall things are going to get more difficult, and i think as the stress ratchets up on the president, i think he's going to defer to his lesser angels. i think we're going to see as we get into the fall, north korea will be a bigger problem. they're going into winter. they're going to need fuel and food. i think the potential for a budget showdown is going to be a big problem for this president. and he's the only person who can't advance his own agenda, because he keeps attacking the people he needs most to get things done. >> one of the things he wants to pass is tax reform. he's talking about that right now. >> this is incredibly important. because this highlights another problem that trump is going to run into. that is the difference between his rhetoric and what he says to

his base and what is in the stuff that comes out of his white house. i mean, he has these two goldman guys writing the tax reform plan, reform which is a massive cut. they're a part of a gang of six remitting the white house. what they have in there things great for them and their people. a lot of economic research shows that when you give corporations a tax cut, that doesn't necessarily trickle down to workers. they don't necessarily hire. in fact, the top -- the lowest paying tax corporate taxpayers -- sorry -- they actually cut jobs. look at exxon mobil. rex tillerson paid 13% in tax much lower than 35 % they're trying to cut, and he had a massive, massive layoff, a third of his work force during his tenure. i mean, this is not about labor. this is not about the worker. this is not about his base. this is about giving a tax cut to corporations and also the rich.

>> so, ckatty kay, economics aside, whether the program would work or not, this is what donald trump promised. he promised he was going to stand up to goldman sachs. i saw it in the last commercial, that he was going to stand up to the powers that be. he was going to actually deliver help and relief to working class americans who had been shut out of a rigged system. and yet, lynnette is right, all of his policies come right out of the goldman sachs play book. >> i don't think any of us have seen a credible economic analysis of this tax plan that doesn't show that it helps the wealthiest in the country dis disproportionate disproportionately. >> the rich get richer. what about the health care? >> even health care. that's why they couldn't sign

on. it put too many middle class americans at a disadvantage. you talked earlier in the program about scams from the president. i think one of the biggest scams that president trump perpetuated during the kocourse of his campaign was politics are easy and he was going to get it done. >> but he believed it was easy. he thought everybody was stupid. i remember we would say on the program, he'd say i'm going to stand up to paul ryan and shut him down. i'm like you don't want to do that. it doesn't work this way. >> it's really difficult. >> and the mortal words of -- >> north korea or the middle east or health care or tax reform, there's a reason we haven't reformed the american tax code since reagan. it's not easy. >> you can't run it like a family grocery store. >> in the words of george w. bush in the first 2004 debate, it's hard. it's hard. and can i have more time? it's hard. and it is hard.

>> well, we have not misunderestimated trump. >> we're running out of time. we're seeing a massive gap between the rich and the poor and the middle class drives the u.s. economy. and if we don't get a growing middle class in this country, we're going to run out of gas. the entire world is starting to slow down a little bit. the federal reserve is starting to make money less easy for americans. we're coming into a transitional period for the economy when we really need strong leadership out of the white house. we're not getting it. >> there's a ton of money sitting offshore. there should be easy to repatriate the money, shore up social security, look at a bill out of hurricane harvey. there's things the president could do and work across the aisle, but if they don't get their acts together, it's going to hurt trump the most. if he gets to the end of the year with no legislative accomplishments, gorsuch isn't enough to count as a point on the board. >> where do you live?

remind me? >> down the street from you in nashville, tennessee. >> what are you hearing from people who voted for trump at this point? >> die hard trumpers? >> i'm getting what joe is getting from people in pensacola, friends saying you're being too hard, give him a chance. the honeymoon period is over. i'm hearing from friends in mine that voted for him not because they didn't like hillary but they believed in what he could do for the nation. they're frustrated. they want him to pivot. he's 71. he's not going to pivot. you're seeing it in the base where they want him to stop tweeting, act presidential, stop attacking the media, stop making it about him. he is the most selfish president i have ever seen. >> and wall street is over it too. wall street is over it. they don't think tax reform is coming. they're getting worried about this president, and if he's

effe effe effectu effectual. they don't think his agenda is going to pass. everything is getting pushed farther into 2018. when i a new yorker go to washington, i have a reaction like what are you guys doing down here? >> definitely a case of presidential dysfunction. business insiders lynn et lopez, thank you so much. brad, thank you as well. >> thank you. >> we'll be looking for your latest book "use of force". thank you. >> our wide ranging conversation with governor christie. he joined us onset to talk about his support for president trump. plus why he's taking on ted cruz by name over the funding for storm relief. his stand next on "morning joe."

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i and a number of others enthusiastically and emphatically supported hurricane relief for sandy, hurricane relief and disaster relief has been a vital federal role for a long, long time, and it should continue. the problem with that particular bill is it became a $50 billion bill that was filled with unrelated pork. two-thirds of that bill had

nothing to do with sandy and what i said then and still believe now is that it's not right for politicians to exploit a disaster and people are hurting to pay for their own political wish list. >> that was senator ted cruz stand big his 2013 vote against a super storm sandy relief bill for the new york, new jersey area. that doesn't sit well with governor chris christie. he joined us onset and began with one word, a one word response to his former rival for the white house. >> word association game. ted cruz. >> crap. by the way, that was -- he talks about playing politics. that's what he did with people's lives. he was playing politics to make himself look like a conservative g guy. >> he told us two-thirds of the spending had nothing to do with sandy. >> dead wrong. "the washington post" did a fact check and the fact of the matter

is that there was a senate version of the bill that never passed that had a lot more spending. it got stripped out, and almost all of the spending in the $50 billion bill was for new york and new jersey and some of the other areas affected for hurricane relief. he knows it. the worst thing about it is statements like that. he should stand up now and say i was wrong. i was wrong in 2012. it was the wrong thing to do. and now i hope that the people of new jersey and new york are willing to let by gones by by gones and vote for relief to texas. >> so "the washington post" did have a fact check. nicole, you went through the bill yourself and saw there wasn't really -- >> there was a very small amount of money that could have been put into a different pot than a long-term relief, but it was almost all for projects intended to mitigate damage. it was not all emergency direct

aid, and what's troublesome here is the characterization of pork applied to stuff like fixing roads and community centers and actually doing real fixes on damage. i think what he's saying, the governor j that it's not a fair label to call it pork. it's a way of posturing. >> and two-thirds. where do you get that number? >> he made it up. ted's particularly good at that. he just made it up. you know it and i know it. he made it up because it sounded good. >> i never said that. by the way, i would never be critical of ted cruz. >> i know. the disgraceful part is he's not telling the truth standing in a recovery center where people are suffering. >> but governor, let's expand this beyond ted cruz. i don't think it's fair to just talk about ted cruz -- >> you brought him up. >> i know -- >> good point. >> let's expand. i'm ready. >> you could say that about a lot of people in the texas

delegation. >> 20 of them. >> a lot of people across the region did the same thing. >> but you know people from new jersey. we don't hold a grudge. we're happy to be helpful now. because we know what this suffering is like. >> one person who knows what the suffering is like, not to this degree, but you were talking about how it didn't hit you until about three weeks later that -- >> right. i was in a garden level unit in jersey city. wet and dark, but not like the folks on the shore. when i was thinking about it, everybody thinking about the long term months out and the near term immediate lives lost. but that period where we were dark, the week after, two weeks after, we really start to get a scale and understanding of the scale of the disaster, what needs to be done in that interim to restore power, to get air-conditioning back on? that sort of stuff? >> our plan right off the bat was four steps to return to some

kind of normalcy. get your power back on. get the roads cleared, get gas available for generators and cars and gets in school. if you can do those four things as quickly as possible -- >> were you able to? >> we were. everybody in new jersey had their power back within two weeks. i got on the phone with governors in every state i could before the storms to say if this is as bad, will you send workers? will you send workers? we got commitments up front from states as far away as tennessee and louisiana who started to drive up to new jersey. that's the only way to do it. there are not enough resources in any one region to deal with this. >> and that was -- when hurricane ivan hit pensacola, it wiped so much of the place out. but that night mississippi power trucks up and down, alabama power trucks, up and down our blocks, and they were working

literally 24 hours a day. and that's who we are. >> that's what you're supposed to do in storms. as you know, you've lived through it and presided over it. people have covered it. we've covered things like this, not anything as epic as this. there's the reaction, the rescue aspect which is ongoing now in texas, and then there's the recovery. you're still going through the recovery process in new jersey and the cost of it. in the middle of it, the reaction to it, you have a president arriving in texas. you have a president arriving in new jersey. and there's an infamous picture you paid a political price for of you and barack obama. tell us about barack obama arriving in new jersey and dealing with the people of new jersey. >> let's remember the context which you implied in your question which is that we were eight days away from a national election when hurricane sandy hit, and i was if not the top surrogate for mitt romney, at

least one of them. and so when the storm hit, the day after the president called me and he said i want to come to new jersey, but if that's going to be awkward for you, we should talk about it. i said mr. president, you're the president of the united states, we want you to come to new jersey. he came two days after. and you're showing some of the pictures now. we walked around to the affected areas. i showed him so he could see for himself both in the air and on the ground the effect of what was happening, the devastation. and i think that it set the pace for his attention to this going forward, and it also set the pace between my cabinet and his and the relationship you need. there are going to be a lot of bumpy moments no administration what administration or party to get the recovery done. it makes a difference to have the president there and see it for himself. >> and looking at this disaster from a good distance, comparing it to new jersey disaster, how important is it to have regio l

regionaled a min traitives, sba, hud, epa on the ground dealing with things in conjunction with the governor's office. the governor's office has been hallowed out. >> it's essential. it has to sort first into the governor and the president can speak at any time. that day when president obama came, he handed me a piece of paper with a private number and said you call this any time day or night and you'll get me. >> you still have it? >> no. he changed it on me after he got reelected. the fact of the matter is i used it. and he made the instruction to his cabinet members in front of me, he said if the governor or any of his people call, it is unacceptable for that call not to be returned within 30 minutes. >> country above politics. >> that's what it was. and we both understood, even though i was on the campaign trail beating him on behalf of mitt romney right up until the saturday before the storm.

but we both understood that we had a job to do and that's why the picture that you have of me shaking his hand when he got off the plane, that became such a big political deal that was character rised as a hug. the fact of the matter is i'd do it again. if it was today, i'd do it again, because that's what you're paid to do. and this other stuff is not what you're paid to do. the stuff cruz was going, you're not paid to do that. >> and governor christie addresses his sinking pole numbers. and we ask point-blank is president trump fit for office. his answer is straight ahead on "morning joe." kevin, meet your father.

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here chris christie breaks with the question over charlottesville and the pardon of joe arpaio but explains why he's still supporting the

commander in chief. first speculation about the governor's own political future. >> there's a chance perhaps an outside chance of vacancy in the u.s. senate. i'm curious. you said i don't see it happening that you would be the replacement yourself. i'm looking for a statement here. is it within the realm of possibility? >> i don't give those types of statements. i've said pretty clearly a number of types over the years there are executive personalities and legislative personalities. i think i'm an executive personality. i don't know being 1 of 100 if i'd be invited to lunch all the time. governor christie has a better ring to it to me. we'll see what happens in the trial. we don't know if there's going to be a vacancy and or if i'll be governor to replace it. i'll do the same thing i did when we had a senator pass away. i'll pick the person i think is

best to represent new jersey's interest in the u.s. senate. if i get the chance to do it, but let's remember something else. bob menendez, he deserves the presumption of innocence. he's an american citizen who deserves the presumption of innocence. and having been a prosecuter, it's our job as the government when i was the u.s. attorney to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. >> is this a political witch hunt? >> i don't know. i don't know enough about the case to really know. we're going to find out. >> i think would be a good time to ask you about the pardon of joe arpaio. the transgender tweet in the middle of the hurricane. can i get your take on them in terms of how the president is doing? >> i think the pardon power is an extraordinary power for any executive both a governor, and i've used it, and president. my understanding has been one of the prerequisites to look at is contrition for what you were convicted of. i didn't see a that in sheriff

arpaio. you need acknowledgment of guilt. it's required for a pardon, and i -- have always been told you need to look for a sense of contriti contrition. >> you wouldn't have given it? >> i wouldn't have done this one. when you're a president or governor, you have the right to do this. the president or a governor has a right to pardon for any reason. this is not one i would do because of the person not seeming contrite for what he was convicted of. i know the president disagrees what he did was unconstitutional, but a court found that, and so my concern about this is for us in these executive positions, you need to use this power sparingly and for people who are truly deserving. i know he absolutely believes that arpaio was wrongfully convicted. believes what he was doing was constitutional and he was doing

something right and just. everybody has their own read and can agree or disagree. but they can't do anything about it. the presidential power is absolute. >> we've done a number of interviews in the past couple of weeks. i'll ask this question to you. do you think president trump is fit for the office? >> i do. i do. >> how so? >> listen, i think this discussion of fitness was determined in the election by the american people. and he -- listen, i think there's a hyper partisan attitude in the country. i never thought that president obama was born outside the united states. yet, we had years of discussion of that. >> donald trump did. >> of course. >> our president is one of the leaders of that movement? >> which was, i said from the beginning, was a ridiculous conversation. and i believe this conversation about trump's fitness for office is a ridiculous conversation. >> but do you think someone who is actually a leader in the birther movement is fit to be president of the united states? >> i think people are allowed to

be wrong and the american people can pick the leader they want. they voted for donald trump and i did too knowing he'd done that. i think he was wrong. >> i don't think he thinks he was wrong. >> i know. i talked to him about it. here's the bottom line. we're allowed to disagree with our leaders. i disagreed with what he said after charlottesville and i said so publicly and privately that i thought it was wrong. and i thought it was a mistake, but show me the flawless leader. we have not had one in my lifetime. you've got to make a judgment. everyone will make theirs. you'll make your judgment about fitness for office. i'll make mine. i can answer the question directly. i believe the president is fit for office. and my hope is as he continues to go through his learning curve in this office, that he grows into it even more. that's my hope as an american and as a friend of his for the last 15 years and last my hope as a republican. >> what's your biggest disappointment in president

trump? >> we haven't gotten things done. the only touchdown we've put in the end zone is justice gorsuch and the big things we've been talking about as republicans for eight years, obamacare, things like tax reform, are things that should be done with a republican congress and republican president. and we've been distracted by other things. and we need to get focussed on getting that done. >> we've had you here when your approval ratings were low. >> like today. >> you don't care. >> i don't. >> when you came back, your approval ratings for higher. you had the same attitude to us. and we've said this clearly on the air before. but now they are very low. >> right. >> does that bother you? do you care? what would you have done differently that may have gotten your approval ratings higher? >> you asked a couple questions.

does it bother me? of course it does. nobody likes to have low approval ratings. do i care? no. i know i've done the best job i can and made a huge positive different for the people >> what was your biggest mistake as governor? >> hiring the people who focused s shenanigan at the bridge. >> what about having more control? do you regret that? >> listen, that's -- it's an independent agency port authority. it's supposed to be independent. i hired one of those people, just one, and i sent them over there trusting them to do the job. >> you don't think they were doing that for you? >> oh, i think they thought they might have been doing it for me, but they weren't doing what i wanted. when you look at, joe, at that time as you'll recall, we had

over 100 elected democrats who were endorsing re-election. why did they do that? they did it because we had worked with democrats over four years, a democratic hedlegislat, to pass things like that. the idea that i would ever want something like that done is ridiculous. it was done by a group of folks who, you know, clearly were on their own agenda. if that were systemic, there would be more than one instance. people have to be held responsible for their conduct, and a jury determined that they now have a right to appeal. if the appeal changes it, i beli believe in our justice system. i was the u.s. attorney for seven years. i believe in that system, and i support that system, but do i feel sympathy for people? how can you not feel sympathy for a woman who is a single mother with four children who

will have to go to prison? i wouldn't want to see that happen to anyone. i will also tell you that i am to this day still incensed at people who would use public power, public authority that was given to them by someone who was elected by the people to conduct themt themselves in that way. >> given p your respect for the law and your experience in it, what do you think about the president's comments about the judiciary? some say it appears he is trying to even undermine the judiciary. >> i don't believe the judiciary can be undermined. >> what do you believe -- >> i'm not deflecting. >> my friends -- >> it's concerning to people. >> most of my friends in my hometown that i have grown up with, they still support trump, and they ask me what disturbs you the most? i said what disturbs me the most is he didn't seoesn't seem to ud checks and balances, and he goes after federal judges. that disturbs me the most. does that disturb you? does it disturb you?

>> i'll answer that in this way. i think we're allowed to be critical of people in public life, and i think if we think a judge has made a mistake, we're allowed to say. >> of course. >> wait. where it strayed into the unanticipate softbau unacceptable is when it becomes personal. >> what about when you question the judge's authority? >> i think you can question the authority as long as what you say i'm going to take an appeal to the next level, and i think what the president has done, to be fair, is he has respected those orders. where you would undermine the judiciary is if a judge puts an order into effect and he said to general kelly, homeland security at the time, to hell with it. keep doing what i told you to do. if you say i think that's wrong, i think they're dead wrong on it, and i use the judicial process to go up as he did, i think that's showing respect for the system.

where think the president strays is when it gets personal. i counselled him at the time. you can disagree with the way the judge has managed or zoided the case, but you shouldn't say that they're doing so for personal reasons unless you have absolute evidence of that, and i don't think that we did. you can be critical of anyone in public life. do it on the facts. >> parsing. you are parsing. >> i'm not parsing. by the way, i'm sorry -- i am so sorry that i've come on to television and given an intelligent nuanced answer. this is nearly a federal offense to not give a one-word answer. >> please answer the question this way. >> i'm going to parse everything. >> let's go to -- >> how dare you? >> parse. let's talk sports. >> i'm sorry. yankees or the red sox, who do you think will win the east? >> red sox. >> why? >> i think their pitching is better. >> what about it is yankees?

>> they've done a lot better than i thought they would. as a mets fan it pands me. nonetheless, they've done a lot better. the young players have performed. they've stayed predominantly healthy, and they've had a good year. in the end my view, yankees do not have enough pitching to compete in the postseason. >> when is the last time you've seen a baseball team as dominant as a los angeles dodgers? >> the 1986 new york mets. >> oh, shut up. >> baby. the 1986 mets. >> i still -- i still remember that. >> mike. >> i don't mean to do that. >> what's the most dominant team going back? >> come on, mike. >> dodgers. >> the tory yankee teams of the late 1990s were pretty dominant. 1997, 1998. >> that team was pretty dominant. >> all right, governor christie -- >> how are the cowboys going to be this year?

>> i'm looking at 11-5. >> giants. >> giants 10-6. >> jets. >> jets. 11-16. >> oh, lord. governor chris christie -- >> because they got to win one. do we have to go? was that less parsy for you? >> that was less parsy. we should have started with that question. >> that's the only way you can get by an interview about trump is to parse. >> if you want nuance and intellect, invite me. if you want a vocal instrument, have cruz on. >> that's it for us this morning on "morning joe." keep it here for continuing live news coverage on msnbc right after a quick break, and we will be back with you tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. have a happy labor day. see you tomorrow. while some push commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions

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ready to launch? the u.n. security council will hold an emergency meeting to discuss north korea just two hours from now. a day after pyongyang claims it successfully tested its most powerful bomb ever. this morning new reports that the north could be preparing to conduct even more missile tests in the coming days. future in it limbo. trump set to announce tomorrow whether he will terminate a program that's allowed 800,000 young undocumented immigrants to remain in this country legally. and t