doj regulations should kick in. but as this story shoulds, most of those conflicts do not rise to the level of anything under the rules. you are allowed to vote and allowed to make political contributions. thanks for watching our special. i'll see you back here tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" starts right now. "lord of the flies." let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. yes, they're dropping like flies. in only his first seven months in office, donald trump has shed almost all of his senior staff. the result, one of the most chaotic, unstable west wings in recent history. take a look at this incredible photo. it's of the men pictured in late january. the only ones that remain in that picture are president trump and vice president pence. constitutional office. then there was the firing of

james comey in may. the president himself said that the russian thing was on his mind. and of course, there was the spectacular implosion of the mooch, anthony scaramucci, his tenure was brief, of course, his downfall was unforgettable. what does it all mean for the trump white house? the hr, if you will? chaos paralleled, perhaps, the governing chaos we've seen. we've got an all-star panel to talk about that tonight. "the wall street journal's" ely stoeckel, "usa today's" heidi brez b przybyla, and jacob johnson. we begin with donald trump's first national security adviser, remember him? general michael flynn was a bombastic attack dog during the campaign. let's watch and listen. >> we do not need a reckless president who believes she is above the law. lock her up. that's right! [ chanting: lock her up ] that's right! lock her up! i'm going to tell you what. if i, a guy who knows this

business, if i did a tenth, a tenth of what she did, i would be in jail today. >> well, the irony must have been lost on him. anyway, hours after flynn was canned on february 13th, "the washington post" reported the acting attorney general informed the trump white house late last month that she believed michael flynn had misled senior administration officials about the nature of his communications with the russian ambassador to the united states and warned that the national security adviser was potentially vulnerable to russian blackmail. remarkably, president trump defended the man he fired a few days later. spinning his firing as though flynn had been the victim of the media. >> michael flynn, general flynn, is a wonderful man. i think he's been treated very, very unfairly by the media. as i call it, the fake media, in many cases. and i think it's really a sad thing that he was treated so badly. >> well, president trump also

said flynn didn't do anything wrong by reaching out to the russians, prior to the inauguration. let's watch. >> i just want to clarify -- yes? >> an important point, i think. >> sure. >> did you direct mike flynn to direct sanctions with the russian ambassador prior to your inauguration? >> no, i didn't. no, i didn't. >> and would you have fired me if the information hadn't had leaked out? >> excuse me. no, i fired him because of what he said to mike pence, very simple. mike was doing his job. he was calling countries and his counterparts. so it certainly would have been okay if he did it. i would have directed him to do it if i thought he wasn't doing it. i didn't direct him, but i would have directed him, because that's his job. >> why do you think flynn left? he was fired. >> he was fired. and there was a lot of discussion inside about, do we have to fire him? mike pence sort of laid the gauntlet down and said, this guy lied to me, wii want him out. and there were a lot of people who wanted him out, he was one

of the bannon guys, he was too close -- he was running the nfc. a lot of people in defense circles who were worried about mike flynn having that job in the first place. and one common thread throughout these firings, is that these are all born of a campaign that didn't expect to win, didn't expect to have a put a transition together. and suddenly they win and there's this hastily thrown together transition. so a lot of people weren't fully vetted the way normal i guess theres and incoming administrations are going to vet people. and that's why you've had so much turnover just in general in the first several months. but the flynn was an interesting case, because, you know, it's always a measure of like pressure on trump or pressure on the person, whether it comes -- most of the time it comes from the media reporting -- in this case, it all came out. pence took a stand and the president said, okay, i'll do it. and you could hear, days later, he was regretting he felt backed into a corner and forced to do this. >> what about the acting attorney general, sally yates coming out and saying, wait a minute, the guy is basically a hostage to the russians because they know -- they had talks with him about sanctions and he's out there denying it. >> and that's why all of this is

so unbelievable, that the administration didn't know these things. and this is why timing is so important, when you ask why, chris, let's point out, back up a little bit and point out this came after bombshell reporting about those talks that flynn was having and that they had to do with sanctions. there is -- it is highly unlikely that the administration did not know these things, which were supposedly the premise for flynn's firing, prior to the publishing of that news reporting. it was the news reporting which put sunlight on this and forced the administration into taking those steps. so, you know, we still don't know -- we saw the question to the wth presidepresident about directed these talks. okay, fine, he says he didn't direct them. did he know about them? that's something we'll find out hopefully as bob mueller's investigation goes on. >> jason, i think. we all have the same buzz world, we all live here in washington, maybe it's a little dull right now, but for months now, everyone has talked about this guy as a flipper. everybody thinks that the president keeps saying nice things about him because he's

hoping he can soften the reporting in his own interest what went on between him and the russians and what the president knew about what went on between him and the russians. >> i think that's highly likely. but i also think -- >> likely that he'll flip? >> i think it's likely that he'll flip. i think that what happened with paul manafort was a warning to people like michael flynn, like, we'll do this to you. we will send fbi guys in the vinyl jackets to your house to make you look bad. but i also think this. this was the beginning of what we've seen throughout this entire administration. yes, there were problems with flynn. yes, there were warnings. but it was also a panic move. and even though trump is regretting it now and he's saying, i think michael flynn is a nice guy and i want him to be covered, i think there were a lot of panic moves a to the beginning. i don't think they expected to win, i don't think they thought this was going to be a problem, i don't think they expected the press to investigate the way they have. and that's why michael flynn so gone. >> why did he wait to announce that there was this problem that he wasn't up-front with the vice president about? why did he wait, even when he found out about that, until -- well, you take -- why did he

wait until the prez reposs repo it? would he have kept flynn otherwise? >> probably. >> he has to protect himself. that's why you can't fire people. throw them to the wolves and they talk. >> what we now know is that flynn wasn't the only one. his son-in-law was also talking to the russians about his a back channel. so much more reporting has come out since the firing of flynn that shows that there were other people who did the same darned thing. >> well, flynn. >> -- forgot a hundred or so things on his fs-86. of all these people, jared kushner is still there zp. >> you know why. he's the wife of -- >> the gi've always comed them rom novemb romanoffs because they behave less like a political operation than a family. in may came the shocking news that trump was firing his fbi director.

the white house first said that trump went along with a recommendation by his then attorney general. his attorney general, still. and deputy attorney general fired him because of his handling of the clinton e-mail investigation. then a few days later, the president said he would have filed him no matter what and it was really all about the russian thing. those are the president's terms, the russian thing. then president trump proceeded to attack comey. >> he's a show boat, he's a grandstander. the fbi has been in turmoil. you know that. i know that. everybody knows that. director comey was very unpopular with most people. i actually thought when i made that decision, and i also got a very, very strong recommendation, as you know, from the deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein, but when i made that decision, i actually thought that it would be a bipartisan decision. >> you know, i love it the way lester holt gives you that poker face when he says, here's a guy -- donald trump is saying that guy's a show boat. excuse me?

anyway, what about this thing? this comey thing seems to have really god bad legs for this president. >> this is by far the most consequential of all the firings. and the reason why, this is what triggered the appointment of bob mueller to lead, you know, as a special counsel to lead -- >> explain that triggering mechanism. why did rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, the acting attorney general, in the case of -- anything to do with russia, because the other guy, because sessions has recused himself, why did he have to -- what was the reason he gave then for, we need a special counsel -- >> the moemo. the comey memo came out at that point where we learned that the president had tried to one on one, pressure comey to back off the investigation of flynn. and so, rosenstein was put in an impossible situation. he had no choice but to appoint that special prosecutor. given that -- given this raised real questions about -- >> explain that a little further. because the president wasn't trustworthy, he was really going to be the target of this

investigation. but why didn't they just name a new fbi director? >> this opened the president to new questions about obstruction of justice. naming a new fbi director, the fbi director would then be working for the president. this would take it outside that kind of chain of command that you needed to have a special counsel. >> there's also sort of the political c. you had members of the senate, members of the house, you had people concerned. as long as the russian investigation was being handled by comey, it was over there. it was handled by the fbi. if you have comey not there and you have him being fired because the president says, i want him off the russia thing, then it's on the backs of the senate. then the senate has to investigate. then the press expects them to be the most aggressive investigators of the situation. in some respects, it was a way of keeping this over on the side, as well as mueller is working in silence, not talking to the public on a regular basis, it's then not on the pockets and not in the sort of pants of -- >> it's still not in the president's interests that any of this go on. in any way, in june, the country watched comey testify

before the senate and excoriate president trump. >> i was honestly concerned that he might lie about the nature of our meeting. and so i thought it really important to document. >> yoquote, i hope -- this is t president speaking -- i hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting flynn go. he is a good guy. i hope you can let this go. >> i took it as a direction. this is the president of the united states with me alone saying, i hope this. i took it as, this is what he wants me to do. it's my judgment that i was fired because of the russia investigation. i was fired in some way to change or the endeavor was to change the way the russia investigation was being conducted. the administration then chose to defame me and more importantly the fbi, by saying that the organization was in disarray. those were lies, plain and simple. >> you know, heidi, every time i think about mueller, i think about a guy -- maybe not a bloodhound, but a pro. a real winner o f a guy.

look at his resume, heading towards anything we see in the media, any news that develops, as somewhat related to this russia thing because of that comey guy. i think it's not just friendship or professional respect, he knows he has to do a 100% job on this. mueller. >> yeah, he is one of the longest serving fbi directors. he was -- congress passed legislation to extend his term, because he is considered such a pro. he has impeccable credentials and is trusted by people on both sides of the aisle. and that's why you see so many members, now we're learning about mitch mcconnell, as well, having been pressured by the president pushing back, and trying to link arms and introduce legislation, right before they left town, to make sure that the president -- >> thom tillis -- >> while they were out of town to try to push mueller out. >> and the president is still putting his fingers in, trying to mess with that. still complaining to thom tillis of north carolina -- >> it's like --

>> -- why are you protecting mueller? to get rid of the guy. a little lighter moment. sean spicer was next to go. it seems like a long time to go. it was announced the day anthony scaramucci was joining the white house house. for months, the spicer show was must-see tv. >> this was the large ses audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe. you had a -- you know, as despicable as hitler who didn't even sink to the -- to using chemical weapons. >> he says it's a ban. >> he's using the words that the media is using. >> i understand your point -- >> it is extreme vetting. >> the president himself called it a ban. >> i understand. >> is he confused or are you confused? >> i'm not confused. i think the words that are being used to describe it are derived from what the media is calling this. he has been very clear that it is extreme vetting. >> does the president believe that millions voted illegally in this election? >> the president does believe that. he has stated that before. i think he's stated his concerns, voter fraud and people voting illegally during the campaign. and he continues to maintain

that belief based on studies and evidence that people have presented to him. >> what do you think of this guy professionally? he went in there -- and we can all imagine what goes on. the president, you tell those people, it was the biggest crowd in history. >> there are very few people in this administration i feel sorry for. sean spicer is one of them. i had worked with sean spicer before. he was a hard-working, legitimate, dedicated republican. and for him to have to go in and lie on a regular basis. you have the feeling that he would come home and whip himself in the mirror every single day, saying, why do i have to do this? you felt bad for him. but it set a precedent for what you have to do to be a part of this administration. your integrity is left at the door, you have to lie for this president, be dedicated for this president, and even when you eventually leaves out in the rain, you have to say, thank you, give me another. >> i've seen him since. he looks pretty happy. >> a big weight lifted off his shoulders now. that's definitely true of sean. but, you know, you can feel sorry for him if you want, but he chose to go every day. he chose the notoriety and the

infamy that came from his, what, six-month tenure on that job. and you know -- >> it's tough to quit the first week. >> it is. but his credibility was shot from day one. >> you know, he even got so befuddled about something -- the position up here, the highest position of our presidential spokesman, next nazis didn't use chemical weapons. well, they used it in battlefield situations. >> you have to wonder if there was just a level of stress underneath it all that would explain making a slip like that. you know the president was watching. >> they didn't like his looks. >> he didn't think he was protecting him -- >> you know what i'm betting on, what's her name? hope hicks is coming, eventually. although sarah's doing a great job, sarah huckabee sanders, i think she looks country, she's

very much, i think, at ease with that kind of presentation. i think she's probably better for this job. anyway, our panel -- the daughter of an arkansas governor. that's pretty country. our panel's sticking with us throughout this hour. coming up, mooch, vamoose! trump's former white house communications director anthony scaramucci thought he would last, as he put it, beautifully, longer than a carton of milk, but he didn't. not the only colorful figure that's been shown the door so far. let's not forget chief strategist, steve bannon. anyway, darth vader. and if you thought this summer was a busy one, trump is threatening to shut down the government if he doesn't get his wall. and let's not forget bob mueller's russia investigation. and can democrats take back the house and the senate next year? we're about to get a rough, a very rough electoral indicator about where things stand heading into 2018. finally, these two will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball," where the action is.

i'm milissa rehberger with your top stories. south korea's defense minister has called for the redeployment of tactical nuclear weapons in south korea as a deterrent against north korea. and two american states say they will sue president trump if he ends the daca program for immigrants, for immigrants brought to this country as young people. the states of washington and new york say they will take court action to block that decision. the administration is expected to announce tomorrow it is ending that program. back to "hardball" right after this. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations

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on behalf of the entire senior staff around you, mr. president, we thank you for the opportunity and the blessing that you've given us to serve your agenda and the american salespeople and we're continuing to work very hard every day to accomplish those goals. >> that was an embarrassing town. all around the cabinet, they did

those sort of engi genuflexions. priebus was a target of anthony scaramucci, alias, the mooch, who boasted about not reporting to priebus, but rather to the president directly. well, anthony scaramucci began his tenure with a similarly over-the-top love song to the president. let's watch. >> i think we're doing an amazing job. the president himself is always going to be the president. i think he's got some of the best political instincts in the world and perhaps in history. the president is financial with the press, okay? and he's a great communicator. he is an unbelievable politician. the president's a winner, okay? and what we're going to do is we're going to do a lot of winning. the president has really good karma, okay? and the world turns back to him. he's a genuinely a wonderful human being. he's the most competitive person i've ever met. i've seen this guy throw a dead

spiral through a tire. he sinks 3-foot putts. but i love the president and i'm very, very loyal to the president and i love the mission that the president has. i love the president. and i think a lot of you guys know in the media, i've been very, very loyal to him. here's what i will tell you, okay? i love the president. the president is a very, very effective communicator. >> jimmy, two times, three times, four times, how many time do you have to say, i love the guy? the spectacular downfall, the mooch's, came with this phone call to the new yorker's ryan lizza. >> reince is a [ bleep ] paranoid schizophrenic, pairafn ooiac, and let me see if i can [ bleep ] this way the way i blocked scaramucci for six months. he leaked stuff on me. you know my financial record has been leaked to politico, which is a felony. >> that call was made public on july 27th. he was fired four days later. he later joked, the mooch, did about this with stephen colbert.

>> when you take a job like that, stephen, you know that your expiration date is coming. i didn't think i was going to last too long, but i thought i would last longer than, like, a carton of milk. >> you can't beat the guy for metaphors. >> the unwith thing you can say about this presidency, the line between politics and entertainment are completely blurred. >> there's no on stephen colbert's coverage is almost like he's a news show now. >> here's the thing about scaramucci. he was brought in to take out priebus. that was where the animus was. he came in, he did his job, and yes, i think kushner -- >> didn't he also knock out -- >> -- did think he would last a little bit longer and he caught himself on fire by calling ryan lizza and going off like a volcano -- >> doesn't that tell you so much about how this white house functions, though? because prior to that call with ryan, he went on tv and ripped reince and the news reports at the time were that the president actually liked it. it tells you, you know, the blurring of that line. he likes the reality show. he likes this display, which all

of us take it in and a, oh, that's dysfunction. he likes it. he likes the drama and the reality show aspect to it. >> and the president didn't like that reince didn't fight back. there was this perception that ryan was kind of feckless, running to meetings, scampering around the west wing and didn't fight back. when mooch torched him on tv, ryan didn't say anything. mooch was much more in the president's personal style. >> i started saying about "lord of the flies," we've read that book with these kids stuck on a desert island, who's the king of the hill, who's got the conch, who's the got the voice? >> kill the pig, smash his head, right? who's the pig? the pig is whoever trump is not happy with in that particular read. and what's interesting, also, you heard about with the interview with mooch, ryan has been blocking me for a long time, it seems like he was waiting to get into this administration and felt like it was traditional republicans keeping him out. but he was still getting rid of -- >> i want psych babble, jason. why can't the president fire reince? why'd he need the mooch to do

it? >> because he's a coward. >> last but not least, alt-right firebrand steve bannon, he seemed to float in and out of favor with the president and landed on the cover of "time" magazine. always a mistake. trump dismissed him as an insignificant factor in his campaign and protest. watch him erase the guy from his history. >> i like mr. bannon. he's a friend of mine. but mr. bannon came on very late. you know that. i went through 17 senators, governors, and i won all the primaries. mr. bannon came on very much later than that. and i like him, he's a good man, he is not a rauscist. i can tell you that. he's a good person. >> the word "but" so far introduced the truth there. anyway, in an interview with "the wall street journal," he called bannon a guy who works for me. bannon clashed with the people whoa called the globalists in the white house. that included the president's daughter and son-in-law, the couple that bannon calls javanka

behind their backse. he was fired august 28th. that day bannon said he was headed back to breitbart and told "the weekly standard," the trump presidency that we fought for and won is over. we still have a huge movement and will make something of this trump presidency, but that presidency is over. it will be something else. you know, ely, how does a guy who's the ultimate nationalist go to the "weekly standard," which is globalist and neocon, and say, this is my departure speech? >> or "the american prospect" a couple of days earlier, a democratic magazine. >> why was he going to the enemy press to make his good-bye remarks? >> i think he was bored. he was sitting in the white house while everybody else was up in bedminster. he knew he had been left behind and his days were numbered. i don't know if it was strategic or cabin fever, but he felt the need to push his narrative. the interesting thing about steve bannon, there will be some tension between the nationalist base that bannon represents sort of keeping an eye on this white house that steve bannon says now you look up and see generals and democrats in charge.

but one of steve bannon's goals was the destruction of the administrative state. and i'll say, you know, in sort of looking at all of this palace intrigue and all of these firings and the fact that scaramucci and reince priebus are household names across america, people know who's in and who's out of the president's favor at the white house, and this has been an effective smoke screen for what the administration has done. >> there's no state department. >> no hud, no state department. >> everybody is watching the reality drama at 1600. >> the nationalism says no more stupid wars. that's sort of the bannon doctrine, a day after he -- or the day he left, the president comes out and escalates the battle in afghanistan. >> well, i mean, that's one of the results is surrounding yourself with generals and having kelly come in and be your new chief of staff. so it's a logical outcome. and we've seen previous presidents who have wanted to extract themselves, obama, and gotten further enmeshed. so i think it's just a logical result in something that we could have expected going into

this. >> they blamed the generals, jason, but i think the question that goes into this situation from the president is always, how do i lose a war and still look good? and the answer is, you can't. >> you can't. look, everybody has been increasing the troops in afghanistan. we're probably not going to be able to figure out a way to get out of that. and that's the kind of thing that trump ran on. >> would bernie take us out of afghanistan? >> bernie was saying he was going to in the exact same situation. he wouldn't pull us out. >> i used it in an extreme case, he was so doctorly against this war and i wondered if even he could face the generals. >> i'll take the loss in the next election. they can blame me for losing afghanistan. we never really had it. i'm not kidding myself. up next, the white house turmoil has been a boon to the late-night comics. we'll take a look at their greatest hits, which are all at the expense of trump, obviously. this is "hardball," where the action is.

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the governors of puerto rico and florida have declared states of emergency ahead of the storm's expected arrival. and congress will vote this week on financial relief for those affected by hurricane harvey. house majority leader kevin mccarthy says the chamber will vote wednesday on the first relief package. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." the various late-night hosts have had fun covering the comings and goings, a lot of goings, actually, of the trump administration. here's what they had to say about all of the people who have been ousted, fired, if you will, off the island, if you will, under trump. let's watch. >> after months of will he or will he speculation, sean spicer has finally stepped down as press secretary. i'm guessing so he can spend more time with the bushes outside the white house. >> just this afternoon, i was shocked by this breaking nooch. >> the mooch is out.

>> anthony scaramucci gone after just a week and change on the job. >> the mooch is toast. >> yes, the mooch is toast! the front stabber has been back stabbed! he said he was going to fire everybody and i got to admit, he delivered. >> this is like -- this is like, you know, the song of the summer. scaramucci came into our lives, made everyone obsessed with him for like a week but left us with nothing but memories and a bunch of weird moves. like, ♪ macarena ♪ hey, anthony scaramucci! >> think about that, scaramucci got priebus fired and then got fired two days later. that's like telling someone, see you in hell, and literally showing up in hell the next day. >> yes, yes, steve bannon is gone. he leaves behind a legacy called by quasi constitutional xenophobia and a definitive answer to the question, with what would happen if martin

sheen ate nothing but sea salt for a thousand years. >> we're back with eli, heidi, skbro and jason. there is no red line twine satire and late-night and what we talk about in politics. >> you had -- like jon stewart would talk about this beforehand, that we thought trump would kill comedy, because how can you make fun of someone who's so ridiculous? but his administration has made tons of comedy. it's impossible to do late-night television and not talk about politics. >> you have a better thought, go ahead. >> i think it's a way of national self-soothing, in a way, because when you think about the numbers of people who didn't vote or who didn't vote for trump, it's many, many millions more people. and i think people have also been activated and awakened and many of the people who didn't vote. there's nothing you can do at this point, other than organize and self-soothe and at least find some humor in it. >> but the entertainment value

of this president, i mean, it's a presidency. it's about the country and yet, it is being consumed as if it is nothing different than a tv show. it's huge ratings. not just for these shows, but for our business, for our newspapers. and, you know, so a presidency that is, by most accounts, not a real successful presidency so far, approval rating in the 30s, is a smash hit on tv, and the issue is, when you step back from it, people are eating all this stuff up every night on tv and they can't seem to get enough of it. are people comprehending the gravity of this? sometimes you don't sense that the president comprehends the gravi gravity. when he says offensive things, the next day the response is, he's joking. >> charlie chapman made fun of hitler -- not that he's hitler, but charlie chapman made fun of that dictator, and it was funny, but then we realized how hitler wasn't just a pain in the butt, he was horrible. so humor didn't cut it. victor borga, he made a living making fun of the nazis before

he had to escape europe. so satire only goes so far, and are you suggesting that somehow we're covering up our own fears or our legitimate fears or else we're denying them? >> i don't know. you can tell that there is just this sort of -- everyone's feeding the beast all the time. nobody can seem to get enough of stories and coverage about this administration. perhaps that's because everybody is kind of on edge about it. but the entertainment value of this is undeniable. and i don't know what -- >> there is a very serious moment -- >> -- in washington or anywhere in the northeast is the same. now, i know i run in that circle, progressive to moderate whatever. and -- but everybody seems to say -- i know the conversation's different in texas or in alabama. we know it is. is it different -- are they watching "snl"? are they watching colbert in those parts of the country? are they? >> there are people who still find, even conservative people, who still find some humor in some of the antics. they can still laugh at sean spicer. they may be laughing for different reasons than liberal

people do. they can still laugh at scaramucci's antics. this is catharsis for a country that's desperately waiting for the 2018 mid-term elections. they can't vote him out, they can't say, i feel sorry enough, they've got to laugh until they have an opportunity to really express how they feel about this presidency next year. >> whistling past the graveyard. >> yes. >> and chris, it's not just geographic, it's generational. even before trump came into office, we know that millennials and younger people, a disproportionate number of them are getting their news from late-night comedians. i think there is actually a civic sense among some of these comedians, as well, that they're getting their jabs in. and they're getting the message across, too, through their comedy. and yes, they've even had some serious moments after some of the worst stuff that's happened, like charlottesville. and it's a way to, i think, broadcast that to a younger generation, that, i'm sorry, but fewer of them are watching us, they're watching the kme ing ti. >> speak for yourself. up next, president trump maintains there's been no collusion with russia. so why is he obsessed with the

russian investigation? why is he telling senators to protect his right to get rid of mueller? and why is he so upset with the gop to not do more to quote -- i'm sorry, to protect him. that's what he seems to be worried about. this investigation. and i'll bet he should be. you're watching "hardball." out to bring you even more incredible shrimp and new flavors like new nashville hot shrimp drizzled with sweet amber honey, and new grilled mediterranean shrimp finished with a savory blend of green onions, tomatoes, and herbs. feeling hungry yet? good, cuz there's plenty more where these came from. like garlic shrimp scampi, and other classics you love. as much as you want, however you want 'em. but hurry, endless shrimp won't be here long. you for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends, three jobs... you're like nothing can replace brad. then liberty mutual calls...

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ends monday! thousanow, the obstructioni democrats would like us not to do it, but believe me, we have to close down our government, we're building that wall. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump, of course, threatening to hold the u.s. government hostage in a shutdown, until congress funds his border wall with mexico. and that's not the only crisis the president will have to confront this fall. he's still denying the legitimacy of the investigation into the trump campaign's possible collusion with russia. let's watch. >> we have a situation which is very unusual. everybody said there's no collusion. you look at the councils that come in, we have a senate

hearing, we have judiciary, we have intelligence, and we have a house hearing. and everything walks out, even the enemies. i say, no, there's no collusion, there's no collusion. so they're investigating something that never happened. there was no collusion between us and russia. >> russia has consumed the president's mind over the past few months and has strained his relationship with republican leaders, especially senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell. "the new york times" reports that trump was even more animated about what he intimated was the senate leader's refusal to protect himself from investigations of russian interference in the 2016 election. we're back with eli, heidi, and jason. if i were trump and i had any kind of conversations, either through my son-in-law or my son or my daughter with the russians, that nobody knows about, yes, i would be worried. >> and he's acted like he's worried. and he also betrays this kninaie thinking that people will be loyal to him. he came in as an outsider and

torched d.c. and the establishment and the swamp. but relationships matter in this town. so when you're looking at the fall and you're rooking at an investigation that you're trying to stave off. when you're looking at congress and trying to come up with something that is a win, he doesn't have anybody really who knows him and has a deep relationship with him here. very few people, maybe david perdue and a few others on the hill. but just not enough. and then he's out there on twitter every morning, scratching the itch. and he's alienating them more. >> you know you're -- eli really understands this city. because i know how that works. because if you have a question mark about somebody and you don't like 'em, you go after 'em. if there's a question mark about somebody you do like, you say, let's see if there's more on that. if there's more on it, i'll move. but that's not enough for me to move right now. it's called prosecutorial discretion. but in a legislative context, it's always there. do i give this prosecutor more muscle? do i give them more protection from being fired? or just a little. and it's all nuance. and it's up to these relationships. >> well, look, i think the other

problem is that trump has not been able to demonstrate thus far that he can protect you, either. we start at the beginning, look at all the different people that he's fired. even if i am a trump loyalist. even if i think that russia is absolutely flimsy nonsense and createddy bsh -- >> hence the pardon talk. >> he's got to be able to provide some more support for the people who are willing to take bullets for him and right now he's not that good a shield. >> his entire life, he's a 72-year-old man, the way he's actually gotten things done is by stomping his foot, kicking down, making people cower, because he's the chief executive, he's the sole proprietor of essentially a family-owned business and you work for him, so you do what he says. then he comes to washington and he tries doing that to mark meadows. he tries doing that to paul ryan, tries doing that to mitch mcconnell. well, hello, mr. trump, there are people here in washington who have equally as big egos and they don't work for you. congress doesn't work for you.

it's a fundamental, also, revealing of kind of a civic misunderstanding of the separation of powers here in washington. and how you get things done. very different from, you know, being the sole proprietor of a family-owned business. >> the transaction is totally different. in his business, he's buying. he can say, i'm not buying. okay, we won't do the deal, you're going to be poor. now he's asking people to do stuff for him. it's a totally different transaction, jason? >> and here's the thing. he doesn't have the power, he doesn't have the knowledge of the city yet to even cower people into control the way he used to. when senators walked into george bush's office and said, you're going to listen to me, what'd he do to trent lott? just knocked him out. he demonstrated his like, look, if you don't get along with my program, if you don't like me, i can demonstrate some political savvy and power. trump hasn't been able to do that yet. >> if he knox off jeff flake next year. >> exactly, if he can knock out somebody in a primary. but until then, he's -- >> and he does it in often is public way of bullying these people, such that the news reports get out or he does it

over twitter. it's not that we haven't had presidents before who have been intimidating and maybe even bullying like lbj, but they did it in private, not public. >> the more i hear about jeff flake's primary opponent, the more i like jeff flake. >> people on both sides of the aisle like jeff flake, because they have a relationship with him and he's a decent guy. it's never thinking more than one play ahead with president trump himself, and so, who cares? maybe he takes out flake in a primary. but does she win that race or do they give up the seat? and even if she wins the seat -- if she wins the seat, what is the cost to the relationships with mitch mcconnell and the republican caucus? >> you know how you play pool? it's about placement of the ball after you make the shot. not just about making the shot. when we come back, a big test for president coming up this november. you're watching "hardball." most anything. even a swing set standoff.

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now's the time for a better moment of proof. ask your doctor about victoza®. welcome back to "hardball." september's a pivotal month for the president's legislative agenda, but november's gubernatorial elections in new jersey and virginia will be taken by some as the first test to president trump's political prowess. the outcomes of these races are taken by some as the first clues about the national mood a year after a president's election. in this case, trump's, and a year before the midterm 2018 elections this time. and for democrats, it's their first opportunity to prove to voters they're more than just the resistance. we're back with eli, heidi, and jason. let's just -- i'm just going to say it. new jersey looks good for the democrats. this guy, paul murphy, is probably going to win. chris christie has just left a bathtub ring around the

governor's office -- >> his approval ratings are worse than trump's. >> it's not going to be good for anything. let's talk about virginia, which is fascinating. a purple state. ed gillespie lost a race, a good candidate, almost knocked off mark warner. now he's behind about six points, but it's a good race. the monuments issue. i've just looked at this poll. virginia's virginia. it's not new jersey or philadelphia. 52% of voters polled think the monument is part of southern heritage. 25% believe the statues a symbols of racism pure and simple. that's not just minorities, some liberal whites, too. but i have a sense that that's gillespie's only chance to make this a referendum on, do we betray our heritage. >> you've had people who have actually attacked nor eed north already and called him a race traitor for this polaarticular issue. i think when we see a debate

between these candidates, it may be the most explosive things we've seen in a gubernatorial race in years. i don't know what the right answer is. i don't think anyone know was the political right answer is. it's not just about heritage or hate, it's also about a terrorist attack. and what kind of terminology you use to discuss -- >> in charlottesville? >> in charlottesville. >> here's what i think could happen. right now things were looking very good for northrupp. he's ahead in the polls. trump's approval ratings are lower than average. the democrats are doing a good job of tying gillespie to trump. but if this issue depending on how it plays out energizes the right in the way democrats feel energized -- >> the southern part of the state. >> in the southern part of the state, right now they're depending very much on the democrats in northern virginia, who are hot to trot, want to get out there in the midterms and vote. but if this issue energizes the right, them i think, you know, this race is a lot closer than we think. and it's also going to be very bad for democrats, because many analysts no longer consider virginia even a purple state.

democrats have taken it at the democratic level, nine out of the last ten. if a republican wins, and this is win of the only elections, the only major election that we have this year, rolling into the midterms, i think that's going to be a significant scalping for the republican party. >> this is a very interesting test case. heidi's right. virginia, colorado, states we used to consider purple states twhaish more blue now than some of these rust belt states. at least with the politics of our country the way they are today. >> what about with the monuments? >> i think there's a reason that donald trump decided to pivot from the both sides screwup in the aftermath charlottesville to, with i'm defending the monuments. i think it's a better applying issue. and the democrats who latch on are misplaying -- >> there's a nice little statue on the main street of washington state in old town virginia. it's not about a big general riding on a horse, i won this battle, it's not about slavery. it's a poor white, i guess white, southern soldier, a

grunt, it's about failure, it's about defeat. it's about a region that lost. they go after that one, they're making a mistake. that's my hunch. if the progressives think that's something that has something to do with slavery, i think they lose on that one. >> we still have time, but i also say this. if there's ever a canary in a mine, look at jeffrey fairfax. you have a an african-american male who's running for lieutenant governor in the state and this has not affected his numbers at all. he has come out and said, he has threaded that needle, we need to look at this on a kicase-by-cas basis. communities have a right to say -- >> northam has moved slightly left to a place he might be in a good place on this. he said, these monuments should stay and be put in historical context. >> in museums? i'm not sure it will win. anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. his "hardball," where the action is. haven't you ever wanted something more barry?

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enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp. and provided by unitedhealthcare insurance company, which has over 30 years of experience behind it. apply for a medicare supplement insurance plan any time you want. so don't wait. call unitedhealthcare now to request your free decision guide. welcome back to "hardball." eli, you're first. tell me something i don't know. >> we're six to seven months into this presidency. he's already had political rallies run by his re-election campaign, but aye talked to people in the last few weeks who are close to the president and speak with him regularly. there's a lot of chatter that he's not even going to be running for re-election in 2020. people close to the president think this has taken too much of a toll and they don't know he's going to last four years, but they're cold on the idea that he's going to run again. >> i hear that. >> we talk a lot on this show and other shows about how the president -- >> -- insight. >> people pretty close to this

president. >> sorry. >> we've talked a lot about how this president isn't getting anything done and there's an important distinction. he's not getting anything done in congress, but there are plenty of things that are getting done and one of the top ones is energy. it's not just clearing the way for xl pipeline, there's many regulatory reforms he's putting in place and we're now getting the numbers in that last year coal production is up by about 15%. we can't prove the causacausali. >> i think he wants to get another supreme court justice in there. >> "new york times" has a piece out talking about after 35 years, affirmative action has done nothing to improve the number of african-americans at leap schools. the numbers are pretty much the same from 1980. but they've only got half the story. what you may not know, over the last three years, there's been a massive increase in minority students to historically black

campuses, in part because many students feel that going to an elite undergrad institution is not going to improve their chances in the economy. >> eli stoeblckoles, heidi przybyla, and jason johnson. tonight on "all in." >> i got the white supremacist, the neo-nazi, i got them all. >> what the president did this summer. >> kkk, we got kkk. i got 'em all. >> response to charlottesville. >> very fine people on both sides. >> the response in north korea. >> they will be met with fire and fury the response to ht hurricane. >> the intensifying russia investigation. >> my son is a wonderful young man. he took a meeting with a russian lawyer. >> the fights with his own