you've contributed to society, passed criminal background checks, you've demonstrated your ability to be beneficial to the country now and in the future. the only thing that stands between you and certainty in your life is the congress. that cannot be that reassuring. >> good morning. it's wednesday, september 6th, welcome to "morning joe." with us, we have senior -- >> we have with us mike barnicle. >> senior political analyst and msnbc's mark halperin and kasie hunt. a lot to talk about today. >> let's talk about some crazy baseball last night. >> were they cheating? >> no, they weren't cheating. 19 innings. >> yes, that was a long match. >> fake news.

>> good product placement for the apple watch. >> by the way, the yankees use swatches. that's how behind the times they are. they steal signals from boston. if that makes you feel better, go ahead. but you stayed up for 19 innings. >> yeah, i got hooked and i couldn't fall asleep. bottom of the ninth, took it home, 3-2. >> and the yankees lost. ing about -- big swing in the race. >> you got the yankees and the red sox. when the red sox win and the yankees lose, we'll be talking about it here on "morning joe." >> in an even tone. just the right amount of coverage. >> exactly, exactly. >> you talked so long what mathe trump's policy has changed

again. president trump appeared to signal change -- >> he was actually for it during the campaign. he brought dreamers in, you have changed my mind, you have warmed my heart i think you said in trump to you are and now i get it. >> he appeared to signal a change in his position last night after a day of shifting responsibility fornding the program to others. he began the day by tweeting congress, get ready to do your job daca. then he sent attorney general jeff sessions out to make the announcement. >> the nation must set and enforce the number of immigrants we accept every year. this does not mean they are bad

people or that our initial disrespects or demeans them in any way. it means we are properly enforcing our laws as congress has passed them. >> why did the president not come out and make this announcement himself today? >> it's a in large part a part of the legal process. this was deemed illegal by just about every expert you could find in the country. therefore it would be the department of justice to make a legal recommendation and that's what they did. >> senate minority leader chuck schumer hypothesized that sending sessions out to make the announcement instead of doing it himself said trump is ashamed of his decision. >> i don't thinks that fair. there are people inside the

white house that were saying he didn't understand the impact of his decision and they expected, mark halperin, over time that as things moved forward, his position would soften and change. little did they know it happened in a matter of hours. and it kept changing over and over again. by the end of the night, he put on barry white and was doing press conferences about dreamers. dreamer's a love story and he was saying if congress won't do it, golly darn then i'm going to have to revisit this myself. >> good reporting on the barry white stuff. >> she had carly rae jepsenton. it's barry white. >> immigration is a top emotional issue. i think the notion that congress is somehow going to grapple with this because the president feels

congress should grapple with it is silly. >> you have a president that does something extraordinary i recall unpopular, finds out 75% of his own people are against it. probably -- this is hard to say because he's done so many unpopular things over the past seven, eight month, this is easily the last popular thing donald trump has done. do you think he really didn't understand that until he got the feedback and that's why he did a 180 about five times? >> it's a great example of how the loudest voices on the national town square on the right and left can drown out and create a distortion for politicians. this is a policy that is complicated. it's become partisan. i think he'll have to rerevisit it.

i don't think any of the people given the status under president obama will be deported. >> if i wanted to do this, i would start my press conference by saying barack obama said in 2012. this not really the job of the president to do. this is a temporary fix. congress has to step up and make this the law of the land. >> do you really think he's thinking that much? >> yes. >> that seems like it would hurt. >> there a couple of big problems with what happened

yesterday. he sent out the attorney general of the united states to say daca was illegal. this is a law and or issue. if it's illegal, why are you then suggesting that you could come back and fibs it yourself in a way that you said was illegal using executive authority? >> as rich lowrie said after that bizarre tweet came out, well, you just undercut all leverage for yourself. >> that to me is the second part of it, which is the great art of the deal deal maker came out after going out and saying he was celebrated by his supporters, we're getting rid of this thing, daca is no good. watch the day of coverage, you can see the evolution. we'll play the sound bite where he says have i a lot of heart for these folks and love for the d.r.e.a.m erz. then he says actually i'm going to revisit this issue. >> this is all i am giving you. take it or leave it. >> yes.

>> he panicked. we saw the president of the united states pan uk in the middle of the day. >> this is what happens when you listen to people like steve bannon and the screamers on the far right, far, far extreme alt-right and they make all this noise, you start thinking that's what mrk is. no, no, this is why you have a 35% approval rating. >> why is this donald trump who

continually tells us how tough he is allows jeff sessions that he will not defend daca in court. he will not use the justice department to defend daca in court. then secondly to your point, joe, he doesn't understand his own strength with that fraction of his base that might be inclined to yell and scream and be upset about daca. he could have convinced them yesterday if he had come out himself on stage. >> and his deal maker who just blurts everything out. you could have quietly have gone behind closed doors and negotiated.

they've got to figure so many things out, mika. you can say, listen, i'm going to put this on you guys. we're going to take care of daca so we all win. we're going to pile it all together. >> i don't think he can finish a thought. >> he's a day trader and he's always been a day trader. >> that would be good news at this point. >> the president answered a question about his february promise to handle daca recipients with, quote, great heart. take a listen. >> i have a great heart for the folks we're talking about, a

great love for them. people think in terms of children but they're really young adults. i have a love for these people and hopefully now congress will be able to help them and do it properly. speaking to members of congress, they want to be able to do something and do it right. really we have no choice. we have to be able to do something and i think it's going to be able to work out very well and long term will be the right solution. >> he followed up with a tweet that said i look forward to working with these and ours for reform that puts our hard working citizens first. last night the president seemed to waiver saying congress now has six months to legalize daca.

if they can't, i will revisit this issue. there as late as one hour before the decision was to be announced, administration officials privately expressed concern that mr. trump might not fully grasp the details of the steps he was about to take and when he discovered their full impack, would change his mind. casey -- >> i think there's a lot of confusion about why he would do something like this. they didn't come out and say fix daca in six months. they said we want congress to do comprehensive immigration reform. that is ludicrous on its face. we were in a place where congress was actually starting to talk about getting along.

the president dropped a poisonous bomb in the middle of it. it's toxic. >> and this is why, kasie? >> he feels the need to push aggressively if he feels not in control of the news sykpsych approximatelpsych -- cycle. there is a lot of frustration among particularly the senate leadership on this, that they potentially are frankly sick of dealing with these issues they can't get through their own caucus. this makes it that much harder. >> is this a stability issue? some might argue when you see

him off prompter, he doesn't seem to really be there. >> what do you mean? >> so what's your question? >> i'm asking if this is a stability question. >> by the way, dr. halperin is only on doctor on tv. any advice he makes should not be used to -- >> i have a doctorate of psychology from trump university. the problem is whether he fully grasps it or not, he's torn. he realizes and people in his life realize the human dimension dwarfs all -- >> how did he realize that in the morning? >> i think they convinced him that by some chance congress would act. >> who is that? >> chief of staff and others -- >> do you think -- i find it

hard to believe that john kelly said, hey, let's go ahead and drop this bombshelbombshell of announcement. >> dunk what you actually have to lay groundwork first if you're going to go to congress with something this explosive. so when you drop the bomb, they don't go, what? which is like paul ryan and everybody else. >> the circuits are congress are so overloaded it becomes slightly less laughable to overload them more. they're not going to get any of these big things done already. why not symbolically throw it to them and hope this somehow breaks the -- >> this fall is tough enough. we're coming into this fall. this just makes it that much harder for congress. >> think about how wild it is after the day of debate we had

about daca, we're not clear where the president sits on it. if you watch the comment he gave to kristen welker, that ad libbed answer, there's nothing in there. it's classic trump space fillers. >> not connected with reality. >> i don't know about that but i just think. this is real life stuff. you better understand it before you make big decision it. >> how long is it before the fact that the president of the united states once again does not fully grasp of details of something, an issue, in this case daca, health care before this. how long is it before mcconnell and ryan finally explode in public about the fact that the president knows very little about what he's pushing? >> i think that one of the things with congress coming back into town there was a lot that happened in august to understate

the issue. including charlottesville. a lot of things are pushing republicans to the brink and i'm watching to see when they're going to fall over the edge. as far as the d.r.e.a.m erz are concerned, i this i that is something you can really feel in talking to republicans and democrats yesterday on capitol hill and i do think there is a sense that this is a major change for the president. dick durbin, this has been his issue. he's the number two democrat in the senate. he said he's had one conversation in his life with president trump, on the platform of the inauguration, he said i'm going to take care of those people. i think that was the message that people on both side and they are stunned by the reversal yesterday. >> i read someplace you once

served in congress. >> well, i don't like to talk about it. >> who and if i were mitch mcconnell and paul ryand and i cared about the people in my district and was being -- i'd call paul ryan and say we need to go up to the white house today and i'd sit down at the white house with the president and say, mr. president, we're taking over. we're going to take over the legislative agenda and we're going to try to pass all the things that you say you want passed but it going to require you to stay out of our way. now, we don't care whether you get in our way or not, we're going to do what we're going to

do and then we'll get you bills for you to sign and you can have pretty bill signing ceremonies and we'll comb over but you need to stay out of the way because you don't know what you're doing. you're kind of like a basketball player for the knicks going up to the 48th floor. well, knicks don't know how to play basketball but if the knicks were going up to the 48th floor while trump is building a 90 floor -- hey, let me take it from here. and paul ryan has got to start showing a spine. i don't know if he's scared of his voters in janesville. he can't sit there smiling and tweeting. it makes him look horrible. somebody tells him he looks horrible when he talks about how deeply stunned and saddened he is about actions like this and

pretends as if he's got no power. how many times can you be insulted if you're mch knl. i've are just stay out of our way, we've got the votes, we'll get it done with all dupris expect, they can't do on their own. >> you don't think they have the votes? >> nothing. >> on daca, you don't think they've got 51 votes? >> in the house they'd have to get a lot of democratic votes. >> they're going to get every democratic vote. >> democrats are going to ask for something in return. >> then you know what you do? >> give it to them. >> you give it to them. because that's how our founding

fathers saw the constitution of the united states. >> there's give and ak i can already name you four senators. you start with every member of nancy pelosi's caucus. this is not hard. for. >> for paul ryan and mitch mcconnell, they'd still rather be with the president than with nancy pelosi or kuk assume i'm with 75% of the american people, then they don't deserve to be in their position. they should go into a dark basement in janesville and tweet the rest of their life.

. this is not hard. i'm not with nancy pelosi, my friend of green bay, wisconsin. i love the wisconsin badgers and i love the american dream! how's that? it's not hard. seriously, you pick up points in your district when you act this way! you really do! and, yes, i do know this because i crossed my party time and time and time again whe she thinks for himself. paul ryan thinks for himself. this really is not hard. >> it's very insulting to the american people they're not given the option of being treated anything but really done by people like paul ryan.

>> and i'm talking about the entire legislate of agenda. you go back and trace it. you can love donald trump. in fact, a lot of donald trump supporters say this, he's been his own worst enemy. he's been the reeb congress's own wore. >> this health care balance is moan john mc. you got three or four other people -- >> by the way, he wants to go to war real badly.

>> wasn't me the founder of cnn. i just love those stories, he'd walk he come down in his bathroom and get the braves' score. lead follower get out of the way. >> coming up, we'll speak exclusively zbrrk. >> that's right. in the wk ysh and now there's a new monster storm churning toward florida. will f. i don't understand. i saw some tweet. did russia limbaugh say was.

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disaster relief money by the end of the week, the house of representatives is scheduled to vote on the hurricane harvey and aid package.

the bill is expected to pass overwhelmingly but when it gets to the senate, gop leaders are expected to add legislation to increase the debt ceiling. >> fema literally is running out of funds at the end of this week. there will. >> but a growing number of conservatives have reservations about at that plan. texas senator ted cruz told reporters yesterday, quote, i think the best way to have a relief package move quickly is to have a clean package, not to have it tied to unrelated matters. and senator rand paul said he'll object to adding legislation to the harvey aide bill when fema's money will likely run out.

at this point the money needs to get to where it needs to go, kasie hunt, does it not? >> it does. the strags has made this argument. they isn't a letter up to the hill saying, basically there's not enough space until you hit the debt ceiling, you have to do these two things together. i think the cruz thing is a little bit surprisinghe refused to apes questions from sporters on whether he would actually vote no if it were tied to the debt ceiling. this is also a play on -- the reason we're going to have trouble doing something anyway, the house is going to revolt, this solves a lot of problems for real people and people in congress. this could throw the whole this

evening off. >> well, let me ask, what would tip o'neill do if one senator. >> it wouldn't have happened. s that lookan kent now every day with regard to things look fema, like the debt limit, you achi e achieve. >> this is one of those issues from the outall across texas because of what hit. get them the money they need. doesn't tie it up in politics. and there's another bigger one coming in and another within behind it, jose. get them the they need.

>> but they have to pass the debt ceiling. they've got to. so if rand paul wants to be the one person that holds out, it seems to me if you're the senate majority leader, you should give him his wish. say, okay, you want to hold up all this erelief while we're trying to get the government open and trying to keep the markets running, we're going to let do you that, rand. good luck. we're all voting for it, go. you know, they're trying to take advantage of the crisis politically by taking the. >> but it going to be a challenge and a and a half. right now nancy plonsy and-check

humor are going parki think their base to. >> and theyon it but if you attach the storm relief to it until it gets dones about. >> the numbers doesn't feel fear. the members of the senate doesn't really feel fear

specific and told him you were going to oppose the war because it was just untenable, the late columnist in the "new york harold tribune opinion that can. doesn't happen. >> you're going to have toing if well, because if you don't do that, you've got 100 senators going in a hundred different directions, 100 people thinking they're going to be president of

the united states states one day. they're not thinking about what's best for the country, they're thinking about their better sing u clear. why do you want them to have backgrounds like that pr they're tuck pb everybody as purchase. >> you're voting yes on this bill on f says o so what is the u.s. strategy to reign in the threat of nuclear war -- you're watching "morning joe."

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we can't continue to kick

this down the road. we have to make sure we're looking out for it. if you look at north korea now, the reasons we're pushing for so many sanctions, you know, do we think more sanctions are going to work on north korea? not necessarily. but what does it do? it cuts off the revenue that allows them to build ballistic missile. >> that's of course u.n. ambassador nikki haley speaking yesterday. joining us now a member of foreign relations and judiciary committees, chris coons, good to have you here. what options are on the table for the united states? we heard nikki haley say sanctions don't really work. there's a lot of truth there. a decade of sanctions haven't changed the path of north korea but nobody wants to go down the

other path, which is a military strike. >> i'm hoping to hear in more detail what the trump administration's strategy is. i do think even though there is some reasonable question whether or not sanctions will ultimately deter kim jong un of north korea, i think we have to try as hard as we can all diplomatic actions while strengthening the anti-missile defenses of our allies and preparing to deploy stronger and more effective anti-missile defenses and after today's but increased were increasingly credible of north korea. >> so what sanctions are left in what could you do to turn the

screws on north korea that hasn't been tried already? >> china hasn't applied the complete pressure have the pressure on economy that might compel them to tack action on next. this issing in buying oil from iran. we've got one major trading partner from north korea, and that's china. given complex web between china and the united states, we'd have to hesitate to really tighten

the cruz on china. >> is as someone who knows these issues well, how concerned are you right now that there could be a military conflict with north korea? more concerned than you've been in the snas. >> i am more concerned than i've been in the past. this is a moment for the the frum vags and the or with we've got hurricane irma bearing down on florida.

we got a dozen other issues in the senate. this -- and for all of us to be communicating in a measured and thoughtful way, we need our allies. this prn i'll remind you that president trump's budget prop e proposed a more than 30% cut to our state department. we'll have a vote on whether or not the senate will cut that deep, to the very department that's responsible for helping us bridge digits to senator, another issue, daca. yesterday there was a pro tebs on here is today and was

yesterday a member of the united states army. what happens to someone like him? >> that's exactly why this announcement by the president is to me so troubling. when you get to know individual d.r.e.a.m.ers as i have, i've had a chance to maem with d.r.e.a.m.ers who are hard working members of community or who have served in the american armed forces or, as this young man is, are currently serving. it changes your view, perhaps, i would hope for most, about these young americans brought here illegally by their parents but through no fault of their own. the vast majority of the american people would like to see them stay here and would like to see them have a path towards continuing to contributing to our economy, to our country, to our security. taken to its logical extreme, the president's position announced by attorney general

sessions yesterday would mean that that young man would face deportation and that he and his family would face the uncertainty that at any time he might lose his currently legal status here because of daca. this is a direct challenge to congress and it's my hope in a bipartisan and responsible way we will take this up and pass the d.r.e.a.m act promptly. >> casey has a question for you. >> senator coons, good to see you this morning. "the washington post" reports you are planning to attend a meeting with donald trump jr. on thursday. is that the case is and what is your top question for donald trump jr.? >> the committee has been very busy. they've conducted thousands of interviews. i'm not sure exactly what day will's going to be a staff interview. what i'm most looking forward to is the chance to ask questions

in an open hearing. i do expect that at some point this month the judiciary committee will have an open hearing where donald trump jr. and manafort will be testifying before us. that gives us the opportunity to have on-the-record questioning of these principles involved who claimed they were bringing information to a core group. >> stl ahead, he says he's opt ms ek plus the white house loses nor key adviser. we'll talk to the head of the president's chamber of commerce who just quit the president's

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>> i don't really understand why we're having him read this, mike. why is he reading this? >> it's important. >> they don't feel i should do sports. >> role models. >> because i'm a girl. >> the boston red sox have been accused of turning a high tech tactic to gain an edge. the "new york times" reports -- >> fake news. >> mlb investigators corroborated new york yankee claims of the red sox illegally using an apple watch to steal signs from the new york yankees. >> are they all on watches texting each other? >> dick tracy. >> the probe began after a complaint filed by brian cashman which put a video for a three-game series at fenway park of a boston trainer using a smartwatch in the dugout and relaying messages to red sox players. there's no rules in baseball against sign stealing but the use of electronic devices in the

dugout is prohibited. while the league's investigation of the red sox continues they filed a similar cheating against the yankees which they deny. >> wait a minute, are the players wearing the watches too and going like this? >> he can explain this. >> i'm a yankee fan as everyone knows. >> what is the allegation? >> the idea is that the replay booth in boston you can help me with this had access to the video they see the signs the catcher is putting down. the replay booth communicates to a watch of a trainer in the dugout who then tells the player in the dugout, dustin pedroia, flashes a sign to the hitter. >> no, to the guy on second. >> who says curveball's coming. >> the yankees have been accused of doing the same thing. >> no. >> the whole thing is dumb. >> using the yes cameras to steal signals and the yankees more low tech they have a guy in center field with this watch that will to that and reflect

this two times curveball. >> for it to work, the pitcher on the mound clearly has to take six minutes in between the time -- >> yeah. >> -- he delivers the ball and the hitter has to hit the ball. come on. all right, coming up -- >> #fakenews. >> it's a pattern in boston, spygate with the patriots. >> it's a big thing. >> i say the red sox do very well with runners on second. >> deflated footballs. coming up we'll talk with republican senator tom cotton who he thinks congress can come up with something to protect dreamers. >> i'm with tom. >> democratic congressman joaquin castro says if reports of the draft letter for the firing are true might be grounds for impeachment. and the atlantic's strongest hurricane ever. >> #realhurricane. >> is moving across the

caribbean at 185 miles an hour, oh my god. >> holy moly. >> officials in the florida keys are telling residents they must evacuate. >> get out. >> or as donald trump just put it in a tweet, "hurricane looks like the largest ever recorded in the atlantic!" exclamation point. >> he is right. that is factually correct. >> get ready to heel everybody, h-e-e-l. >> come on. i count on my dell small business advisor for tech advice. with one phone call, i get products that suit my needs

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over the next few months, eligible individuals who do not present a risk to national security or public safety will be able to request temporary relief from deportation proceedings and apply for work authorization. this is not amnesty. this is not immunity. this is not a path to citizenship. it's not a permanent fix. this is a temporary stop gap measure that lets us focus our resources wisely while giving a degree of relief and hope to talented, driven, patriotic young people. precisely because this is temporary, congress needs to act. >> that is how president obama described his executive order protecting so-called d.r.e.a.m.ers, when he rolled it out in 2012. welcome back to "morning joe." >> mark halperin, the president

of the united states back in 2012 said repeatedly this is a temporary fix. this is why congress needs to act. i didn't realize that until i saw jonathan carl tweeting out the exact quotes yesterday, so barack obama in 2012, just going to be fair, if everybody's running around calling the president a sociopath, a nazi and fascist for doing this, it seems to be fair to say barack obama never suggested this be a long-term fix. he said congress needed to act because this was a stop gap measure. we're five years past that point. >> obama and trump, two presidents on different sides of yesterday's decision, but both on the side of saying congress needs to act on this difficult issue, both frut rated by congress's inability. immigration reform is harder than tax reform. it's about the hardest thing to get congress to do major legislation on and president obama got frustrated that congress wouldn't act even though he knew then what is the case now, if there was a free and open vote in congress, and

both parties could vote their conscience you'd have comprehensive immigration reform. >> jeremy peters is with us, with the "new york times." jeremy, it's very interesting, the president because he couldn't get things through congress passed quite a number of executive orders where he was constantly pushing the boundaries on what an executive could do, and actually the supreme court rebuffed him on one or two of those measures. if you listen to what he said in 2012, this sounds like actually this is a problem with congress, not being able to get something this popular through the house and the senate. >> exactly. president obama back then said it's time for congress to act, and we know exactly what congress did. they passed in the senate a comprehensive immigration reform bill with 68 votes that had $700 billion in it for border

security, sorry, 700 mile border fence. >> right. >> tens of thousands of new border patrol agents, and it still couldn't get through the house of representatives. so this idea now all of a sudden congress is going to be able to tackle without rancor and disagreement a new immigration reform bill just to me seems like a legislative fantasy. i don't see how it could happen. you count adough it with a democratic controled senate and not with a republican controled senate and republican party that is animated by anti-immigration sentiment right now. >> mika, i don't understand, and i haven't understood for a very long time the basic math of this. you have so many democrats, you go with a clean d.r.e.a.m.ers bill. every democrat would be on board with that. >> um-hum. >> you'd have enough republicans on board with that to get it through. not picking on paul ryan but he happens to be the speaker of the house. if paul ryan believes that d.r.e.a.m.ers should not be kicked out of this country, then paul ryan should force his will

on his party and put it on the floor, and say you want to vote against it? vote against it, that's fine. this is 75%, this is an 80/20 issue, and if you have a problem in your district going with it, then vote against it. that's fine. but we need an up or down vote. maybe that's not what paul ryan's base wants. that's what america wants. putting country above party, and when you have a legislative process that chokes off the will of 80% of the american people, then you have a problem, and you're part of a system that is going down. >> and that's sort of why we are where we are today in a nutshell. let's take you through the news of what happened yesterday with the trump administration announcing an end to applications for the obama administration's 2012 program protecting 800,000 people brought into the country illegally as children from deportations. the president began the day by

tweeting "congress, get ready to do your job, daca!" then sent attorney general jeff sessions out to make the announcement. >> the nation must set and enforce a limit on how many immigrants we admit each year, and that means all cannot be accepted. this does not mean they are bad people or that our nation disrespects or demeans them in any way. it means we are properly enforcing our laws as congress has passed them. >> later in the afternoon, the president answered a question about his february promise to handle daca recipients with "great heart." >> mr. president, how is your daca decision? >> i have a great heart for the folks we're talking about, a great love for them, and people think in terms of children but they're really young adults. i have a love for these people, and hopefully now congress will

be able to help them and do it properly, and i can tell you in speaking to members of congress, they want to be able to do something and do it right, and really we have no choice. we have to be able to do something, and i think it's going to work out very well, and long-term it's going to be the right solution. >> so this is how the president's day, notice what he did there. he sends out a message in the morning to his hard base, anti-immigrant base, we're going to deport d.r.e.a.m.ers, right? he fills the pressure, so then he starts talking about how much he loves the d.r.e.a.m.ers in answering kristen welker's question later in the day, right? then he goes to the other side, which is i love the d.r.e.a.m.ers, and i really want congress to fix this in a way that is constitutionally valid. so now he switched sides again. now, let's see what he does after that. >> so he followed up with a tweet a few minutes later.

"i look forward to working with d's and r's in congress and address immigration reform in a way that puts hardworking citizens of our country first." >> okay so then if you're scoring at home, he has switched again and now he's taking a more nationalist tact. we are going to be tough on illegal immigration, and it's america first. so that was an america first message. this is really the third pivot of the day. >> i think but then last night there was more. >> well that's exactly, see, i'm setting this up and we're just going, mika, actually one step at a time. >> yes. >> so now, i have shown three twists, and at this point i take off my glasses and i say, did he do anything else that night, mika? >> are you okay? seemed to waiver a little bit later in the evening. >> how is that? >> he tweeted "congress now has six months to legalize daca, something the obama administration was unable to do.

if they can't, i will revisit this issue!" >> so the president, willie geist -- >> is not okay. >> -- shifts again. this is a fourth time he's shifted, and the last shift actually is i think the most remarkable because he says after berating congress all day saying it's up to you, he's now understanding that he is on the wrong side of an 80/20 issue and ends the day by going if congress doesn't iffix this, i will which says you gave up all your leverage. >> you come out and said the master of the "art of the deal" donald trump if it doesn't work out i'll revisit it and fix it myself. even though i've sent it to you to codify. it's like he was watching this play out yesterday with the rest of us. it's like he didn't anticipate what the reaction would be to it, despite all the polling, despite the fact when he was a candidate for president he said these are incredible kids these

d.r.e.a.m.ers, i have heart for them, we're going to take care of them. he said to dick durbin at one point a few months ago don't worry about those kids. i'm going to take care of them. but as he watched this play out yesterday you could watch as mika laid out you just watch the evolution of a president changing his position tacking one way because he thought it was the way the public wag feeling, tacking back another way, he had to appease people who supported him during the election. >> steve bannon probably called him, maybe jeff sessions. >> no, guys, he was watching tv all day, i'm sorry. he's not even, there's nobody talking to him, there's -- no, there's not bannon, not all these people. it's him. and we saw him yesterday. just like we saw him after charlottesville, when he went nuts in that press conference, okay? that's in his heart. he's either not thinking things out and not completely connecting the dots because he can't or he's got some things in his heart we've seen and like the people sitting next to him

when he spoke yesterday about this, paul ryan, mitch mcconnell, you guys need to understand that that's what you're dealing with. >> and the 800,000 or so people waiting to hear what the decision is deserve to know what the president really believes. does he want it rescinded, is it illegal as his attorney general sailed at the beginning of the day in that press conference or does he have great heart and hopes daca is codified by congress and if they don't do it, he will. >> that's thinking too much honestly. >> the problem is mike barnical that we have seen evidence over the last eight months he really doesn't care about policy in the least. >> or anything. >> if you look at health care reform, he really didn't care what was in the bill. this is the most significant piece of legislation he would sign over his four years in office, and yet he didn't care, and let them know, i just want to build, on immigration reform he doesn't care. again it's all transactional. get me something i can sign. >> well he's totally unfamiliar

with the details of legislation. he was totally unfamiliar with health care, totally unfamiliar with the impact of daca. what we do know and take it to the bank we know this about donald trump is the one thing that he really, really dislikes is negative publicity about him. thus you have jeff sessions out there. the problem with all of this is that hopefully prayerfully it will get done in the end. i don't know whether it will or not but that's what you'd want to happen but the problem is that the way they go about the process of this yesterday, the process of nearly everything, health care is, they steal little pieces of america every day the way they go about their business. >> exactly, yes. >> the president of the united states changing his mind by the hour yesterday, not grasping the concept that you have 800,000 people who we know as american you see them in state

universities and cities and hospitals and employed in all sorts of different places, you see them in the american armed forces. they are call d.r.e.a.m.ers and he steals a piece of their future by fear, and he steals a piece of america by definition as to what this country is all about. >> there are about seven major legislative projects that the president says he'd like congress to act on, and he's overloaded the sir cuts and i see no indication they're going to clarify it or an indication that ryan and mcconnell have a plan to get this done and i've said it before, we're going to get to halloween, thanksgiving, and it's possible they will have nothing accomplished. >> can i ask this question? i'll ask you then jeremy. how can ryan and mcconnell not have a plan? how can they not have a theory of the case at this point? it's seven, eight months in. how could -- i mean, are they going to keep operating on an ad ho hoc basis? they're dealing with somebody who i'm not saying it mentally unstable. i've got somebody on set that

will gladly say that any time they have the opportunity but he certainly is emotionally unstable. he is a day trader. he doesn't plan one hour ahead, let alone one month or one quarter ahead or one year ahead. >> or one minute. >> so mitch mcconnell and paul ryan, the question is, how do they not have a theory of the case by this point, on what they're going to do to pass legislation, protect their members, and make the country a better place. >> because on immigration, government shutdown, raising the debt ceiling, and a few of the other big things they need democratic votes. >> are they, too, inept to get democratic votes? i don't think they are. >> they could, but the politics of the republican party have nothing to do with donald trump or very little to do with donald trump i should say you cannot make a deal with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer of any sort. >> it is why trump is president.

and he can't even spellcheck a tweet so he day trades by the minute so you have no idea what's going to happen next with this president. that's what you've got. >> jeremy peters, i don't believe that republicans can't strike any deals with democrats. i don't believe that democrats can't strike any deals with republicans. is that really the mind-set on capitol hill -- >> yes. >> -- that it is impossible to strike a deal with democrats? >> yes, among the subset of conservatives who would almost certainly mount a challenge to paul ryan's leadership, absolutely. now, whether or not that challenge is successful, i don't know. it's obviously very hard to get rid of a speaker in the middle of a session, but mark used the, exactly correct word when he said overloaded. this system is, this legislative process right now is already

overloaded with major big ticket items. you have a debt ceiling that needs to be raised, a budget that needs to be agreed to, tax reform they're contemplating. oh yeah, we might go to war with north korea and have a troop surge in afghanistan, all of this stuff going on, and in the midst of that, donald trump injects the most politically volatile issue of them all, immigration reform, and says solve this in the next six months, and i think that the possibility for a real rupture within the republican party culminating around all of these issues and the divisions in the party before the end of the year is very real, and the number of times i have heard republicans say in the past few weeks, civil war and third party is really alarming and at a new high and for me at least in the years that i've covered this. >> listen, there is going to be no republican party if they don't start passing things. they need leaders that will take chances. mika, you've got an 80% issue here, an 80% issue that

republicans should be able to pass with the help of democrats. >> right. >> and every time i say that, mark halperin shakes his head. i understand that may be the reality that mitch mcconnell and paul ryan think they're living in but take a chance. if steve jobs was sitting around in 1999, going oh, i just don't think that, like this ipod thing may not work. >> right. democrats can do better, too, with this. >> of course. >> joining us now democratic congressman joaquin castro of texas. so first of all, let's just look, i understand that there's a lot of reaction to yesterday's events, but big picture, sir, democrats are standing alone in the minority leaderless at this point. we're on the brink of war, we're dealing with two hurricanes, racism is back in the forefront, supported by the president some would argue. how can democrats build trust so that republicans can work with

you again? you can resist and criticize but you need to work together. what is your job? >> we're absolutely willing to do that. >> how? >> the country is going through difficult times and if you take this issue of immigration for example we ex-tended a hand back in 2013-2014 in what was a comprehensive bill as you all mentioned got 68 votes in the u.s. senate and because of the hastert rule here in the house the speaker didn't put it up for a vote so we feel like on big issues we have come forward and often compromised. >> congressman, would you support a standalone bill that protected d.r.e.a.m.ers without comprehensive immigration reform, protect d.r.e.a.m.ers, up/down vote. >> can't speak for the entire caucus but i would support a d.r.e.a.m. act bill, what we saw in 2009, 2010. that failed in the senate five votes, some of those included democratic votes but yeah, i think that's something you would see wide support for.

>> so congressman, it's willie geist here. speaker ryan actually kind of shares your point of view on this, in his statement yesterday the reason he supported donald trump ending daca is because the way it came about under president obama was an executive authority is not the way it should have been done. laws are made in congress and now it's in the right place. do you believe that you can get together with republicans and get this done or is it wishful thinking for the president to kick the can over to you all? >> well, anything in this body is possible if there's the will. it's possible to do it in six months. joe you served in this body you can do it in a week if the folks are committed. what is the will here and will the american people if it's an 80/20 issue what about the american people do to show their support for daca, their outrage congress can't do anything. people need to mobilize to show the folks in this body they have to take action. >> sir, are you confident that it can get done? doesn't sound like it. >> i'm hopeful it could get done

but we saw what happened with the d.r.e.a.m. act in 2009-2010 and what happened with comprehensive immigration reform in 2014. i'm hopeful but i'm also a realist. >> congressman, what will the final bill do you think be for the disaster relief, and is the delegation working in a bipartisan way on this the way you normally would not. >> we absolutely are. both republicans and democrats i agreed with state officials in texas that it will be well over $100 billion and as i said before, i hope that there are no legislative games that are played here that the relief aid for texas is not tied to anything else, that forces either republicans or democrats to choose between one thing that they really want and one thing that they really hate. we ought to be able to offer relief for the people of texas without playing any games. >> all right, congressman joaquin castro, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you so much.

>> so jeremy what happens next? what is the next step on capitol hill as we move forward? >> they're going to have a fight over whether or not to tie the debt ceiling to hurricane harvey, as you guys were talking about before and that's going to be the first rupture, joe, when you talk about the unwillingness of certain republicans to vote or to accept a deal with democrats. that's the first test. and paul ryan looks like he's going to have to get democratic votes if he wants to pass the debt ceiling and hurricane harvey relief. that will immediately trigger calls from the right led by groups like you know, possibly freedom works, tea party patriots, some individual members of the freedom caucus i would guess, that paul ryan has broken his end of the bargain, that he has betrayed the conservatives in the conference. from then it spills over into this messy fight over the budget, and whether or not

donald trump gets his wall funding, and that's another point of rupture within the party and that gets kicked until december until you have this big fight there before the end of the year about whether or not to shut down the government over donald trump's wall funding, and in the midst of all of that, you have a congress that's supposed to be debating tax reform, possibly coming up with a fix to obamacare and addressing whether or not to deal with these d.r.e.a.m.ers. so all of these things coming together at once does not look like a pretty picture on capitol hill for the next several months. >> at some point you lead or you go home, mike. if paul ryan is unable to do what is best for the people of texas, at the same time he's protecting the entire republican party by not letting the government default on their obligations, and actually helps people's 401(k)s not crash, because he's actually not going to default on america's debt to the world, well, if paul ryan

goes down in flames, doing that, it was never going to be able to lead anyway. he's no better position than john boehner, you have to, and tip o'neill did this, everybody does this that's a leader, nancy pelosi's done it. at some point you turn and you think you can do a better job, you get up here and do it. >> this is a huge opportunity for the democrats as well as an opportunity for mark halperin to shake his head again. it's a huge opportunity for chuck schumer and nancy pelosi to have a press conference today to seize the moment and say here we are. we have a basket of democratic votes for a clean bill on the d.r.e.a.m.ers. we'll give you all of our votes, republican party. by the way, here we are. >> this would be a brilliant political move by the democrats. nancy pelosi, bring in mow manchin as well, heidi heidkamp,

chuck sumer, john lewis, bring in whomever and have them stand there and say, we have our hands extended. we know 80% of americans support keeping d.r.e.a.m.ers in america and not forcing them to leave, not deporting them, and we want our republican brothers and sisters to know we are here with extended hands and we're not going to play any legislative games. we will give you all the votes you need to keep this american dream alive. we are here, just call us. we'll help any way we can. boom. they leave. nobody talking about donald trump or steve bannon's takeover of washington, nobody like throwing fire. just say that. >> let's make government work. >> yes, let's make government work for america the way that our founding fathers and sisters dreamed that america would work for our country. >> they can work around the

president. >> they smile, they say thank you and go back to their offices and they stare at the phone and if the republicans don't call, the republicans lose in a massive way. >> if the phone don't ring, we know it's you. >> jeremy? >> there was one other thing i forgot to mention, joe, since you brought it up i'll bring it up, steve bannon, just waiting for an excuse to start drumming up, whipping up a frenzy over paul ryan and speakership challenge. >> let him do it. >> as you say, it's politically cynical, it's not good for democracy but if the democrats end up saving the day here on an issue like the debt ceiling that will happen from the right. >> for baseball fans the words kurt flood mean something and what it means is, that major league baseball, mike, was scared to death, right?

because he stood up and for years they didn't want to make that challenge because they were afraid what the courts would say. challenge steve bannon. challenge the hard 2%, and what you'll find is they don't have the power that they want you to think they have. i mean, this is what donald trump's been doing wrong all along. 80% of americans support d.r.e.a.m.ers. 20% oppose. and want them deported, and donald trump is siding with the 20%. so the some point it's just like kurt flood, free agency in major league baseball, at some point you call their bluff, and you find out there's no there there. it's what i'd do but what do i know? >> does he really support the 20% or does he want the 20% to think he supports the 20%? that's my question. >> don't think about it too much. >> he doesn't support the 20%. >> but he's signaling. >> but he is scared, is he

signaling. >> he's hopping a bus off the cliff and everyone is cleaning the windows instead of looking at the person who is driving. jeremy peters thank you. >> thank you. still ahead we'll talk to senator tom cotton, cosponsoring a plan to cut legal immigration but says congress may be able to help d.r.e.a.m.ers as well. president trump is set to take his push for a tax overhaul on the road today. we'll go live to the white house for the latest reporting. >> looking a little yellow down in washington. >> someone needs to clean the windows and tell you about the notable person set to fly with the person on air force one. >> is it bono? tom brokaw joins the table when "morning joe" comes right back.

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joining us now nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. kristen, president trump is headed to north dakota today. tell us about the trip. >> reporter: good morning, mika and joe. that's right, president trump will head to north dakota later

today to talk about tax reform, and the big headline is that he will be traveling with the democratic senator from that state, heidi hidecamp on air force one with him, because it reeffects the new strategy we're seeing coming out of the white house, targeting red state democrats. that was on display last week when president trump was in missouri, he took aim at senator claire mccaskill during that visit. i don't expect we'll see that today. instead i think he'll stress there is bipartisan support for getting tax reform accomplished and underscores the fact president trump at this point is planning to be more engaged in the push for tax reform that be he was in health care. apparently we'll see him on the road more. he was tweeting about it this morning. he tweeted "we'll be going to north dakota today to discuss tax reform and tax cuts. we are the highest taxed nation in the world. that will change." that's where this gets very difficult because here's the reality, based on my conversations there is no actual

tax reform plan yet. it's still being written on capitol hill in concert with a number of top officials here at the white house and i'm told there is still a number of sticking points including the corporate tax rate. the president talks about a 15% corporate tax rate. the reality, they're really discussing something much closer to 20%. mika? joe? >> nbc's kristen welker thank you very much. >> what they're talking about doing is taxing 401(k)s as you make the contribution which would stop people from contributing to 401(k)s, it would hurt savings. they're talking about taxing people or putting a larger tax burden on people that already live in states that have the highest tax burdens right now. they're talking about cutting home mortgage deductions for a corporate tax rate cut. good luck with that bill where

you're basically gutting the middle class and hurting people already taxed the most. that's your idea to get the money? no, doesn't work. >> joining us nbc news senior correspondent tom brokaw. good to have you on board this morning. >> good morning. >> daca, what do you think happened yesterday? >> well i think what happened is a continuation of the republican determination to cut out hispanic votes on their side for as long as we can see. this has been going on for a long time. this is a rejection on the part of the republican party that we have hispanic citizens in this country and other people who in many ways are inclined to share their values. the genius of ronald reagan's campaigns, he used to say we should have the hispanic vote in our corner. they are family oriented, they are faithful, they work hard, they've got all those values but for a long, long time the republican party has been declaring war on hispanics in this country. now, having said that, we really need to get our immigration

under control in this country. it does cry out for a comprehensive reform of some kind, not do it just on a case by case basis, daca one day and work programs the other day. we need a big one, because this is not going to go away, but the reason you see resistance on the hill is that the republicans there know that if they turn the hispanic voters against them in the southwest and now increasingly in the midwest, where they work in meat processing plants, scott walker, the governor of wisconsin says the dairy industry in northern wisconsin goes down if we lose all the workers that are up there. they're doing their jobs that a lot of americans just don't want to do anymore, in meat packing plants. not that they don't want to work hard. these are terrible jobs they're fulfilling. it's hard for me to see the big picture from a republican point of view, joe, going forward and just giving the back of your hand to people who have hispanic surnames. >> yep. willie? >> so tom, just the president's

performance yesterday, we followed this for eight months where he's been in the oval office, he seemed to declare one thing at the beginning of the day, another thing in the late morning, something else in the early afternoon and by last night he was saying i'll revisit this if congress is not able to codify this. so we couldn't decide whether he was for daca or against it over the course of about 12 hours. what do you make of his performance yesterday? >> well, i think that we were saying this on a pretty regular basis, but let me also share something with you. i've been living in the american west for the last couple of months, i've been in wyoming and montana and south dakota. i'll get a big reception my guess is in north dakota. they blame us not him, by the way and they look at these panels and they say i don't see anybody on those panels who looks like me. >> you've reported this before, and we've run your package. i certainly hear it from all of my friends in alabama, georgia, northwest florida. lot of people aren't happy with how donald trump conducts himself, but they're still on donald trump's side, and they

still like you said blame us. you're hearing the same thing out west, aren't you? >> well, i do see it out there and they look around and they say you guys are well paid, you show up in your coats and ties, you've got an answer for everything, you're critical of everything that goes on in this country, and we're just kind of tired of it. now if you bore down a little bit they'll say i wish he'd shut up. >> exactly. that's the second sentence, isn't it? >> but at the same time i was in wyoming at the county fair and went to a table and said i'm tom brokaw, i'm here to figure out whether you still like trump and a big rancher looked at me walked away didn't want to talk to me and others said i'd like to talk to you about it. we think he's doing okay. it's you guys that are the problem. we have to be aware of that, as well, and how everybody treats what is going on here. it cries out at this time i think deep into the trump administration for some

bipartisan group to say listen, it's gone on long enough, and when you see what's going on with john kasich, governor hickenlooper from colorado that, may be the beginning of some kind of a movement that we find a way to work across party lines. i think the country would welcome that. >> we need to work across the party lines. let's bring in republican senator tom cotton of arkansas. senator, always great to talk to you. obviously everybody's talking about daca. would you be willing to work with democrats to pass a clean bill to keep d.r.e.a.m.ers in the united states and not have them deported? >> joe i'm willing to work with democrats to solve the problem president obama's unlawful executive order created legal status temporarily for people who are in their 20s and 30s now. if we do that we're going to create some negative consequences.

one of course we're going to encourage more illegal immigration with children in the future which is dangerous, and two, we're going to create a whole new category of people who can be granted legal status through unlimited family reunification, the parents of these people, the very people who brought them here illegally. >> can you not draft the bill tightly enough that it is, it pertains to the 600,000, i have heard 800,000, 600,000, i think it's closer to 600,000, but alex, check on that, but can't you draft some legislation that is tightly drafted just to apply to those 600,000 d.r.e.a.m.ers? >> joe, i think we can but we have to change the underlying law because if we do so as you say just applying to those 600,000 people under current immigration law, they can then get legal status ultimately for their parents, and their siblings and those people can get legal status of their spouses and so on and so forth. but if we pass something like my bill, the r.a.i.s.e. act which

stops family reunification spouses and unmarried minor children and reorients immigration toward high school immigration, and also we have enhanced enforcement like say more employment verification so business owners can't hire and abuse illegal immigrants, then we're not trying to do everything under the sun on immigration but we are addressing the problem immediately in front of us. >> right. >> and mitigating the negative consequences of that. i've discussed -- >> would your bill include the 600,000 d.r.e.a.m.ers, giving them permanent legal stat us? >> sir, my legislation doesn't include that now but what i'm proposing is that we could sit down and negotiate, include legal status for the 600,000 to 800,000 people who are covered by the daca program, and address the problems that that would create secondary effect, making sure that we're not opening up legal status for the people who violated the law in the first place and that we're not encouraging parents in the future to bring their children across our border which is a very dangerous thing to do, as we've seen in the news this summer with people asphyxiating

in box trucks in texas. i'm saying we shouldn't try to do the same thing that congress has failed to do three times in the last 11 years, which is solve every single problem we have. we should address the problem that's in front of us and mitigate the consequences of that action. that's what president trump wants to do. that's what we've discussed. that's what he said in his statement yesterday. >> senator cotton you started to answer my question there. what is your interpretation of the president's position on daca, and what was your interpretation of what attorney general sessions said yesterday, many people said he didn't really end daca. he ended president obama's program that was untenable, but then asked to the united states congress to take care of it and codify it and make it into a law. >> confusing. >> is that your read of it? >> willie, that's an important point because i don't think president trump and attorney general sessions could plausibly defend this matter in court, and by extending it for six months it gives congress the opportunity to take legislative action to resolve this problem. president trump said he wants to take care of these people.

i'm fine doing that as long as we mitigate the koconsequences, the r.a.i.s.e. act would stop the up limited chain migration legalizing the 600,000 to 800,000 people would do and more enforceme enforcement, workplace employment verification so businesses can't hire more illegal immigrants which is going to encourage more illegal immigration in the future. otherwise we'll be back here in three or four years talking about what to do with the next 200,000 young people brought in this country illegally from 2018 to 2023. >> senator tom cotton thank you very much. >> tom brokaw, ronald reagan famously granted amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants, and the idea was we are going to take care of it this one time and then after that, the problem will be fixed. actually conservatives and a lot of moderates argue that what ronald reagan did actually encouraged even more illegal

immigration. what's the real -- >> i think that's probably true. look, there is a certain fact of life here that we have this enormous population south of our borders, they're struggling with their own economy. i've often thought that we have not done enough about helping not just the mexican economy, but the central american economy and how it can be reformed to keep them in jobs. if you go down to el paso, texas, where i have been and you look across the border, there are lots of factories there, and they're all populated by hispanic workers. they've put in the chinese have got factories there, western companies have got factories there. it keeps them there and they work and they get a good wage and they get housing out of all that as well. >> you know, tom, the last time we had meaningful immigration reform in this country was probably in the early 1980s, with ena friend of ours, al simpson and congressman mazzoli from kentucky put together an immigration bill. if you talk to al simpson today

he will tell you today's republican party represent a political party in thoughts and ideology that are completely foreign to him. >> but he says is that these parties that are so polarized, i don't know how we stick them back together again. he did a reform on social security, for example, that should have worked very well, and it got blown up. i was curious about senator cotton, and who he talks to in the democratic side on a daily basis, who they are in touch with each other now, because we've known for some time that these two parties are going to separate corners every day, and not talking to one another. the country cries out for some kind of unity, some unification of ideals and being able to have a civil conversation without going to defcom one every time there's a controversial issue that comes up. we can't continue like this. it's got to get done. i'm not taking a side of the republicans or the democrats. i'm taking side of the american process. the process works best when they find common ground.

one quick story if i can, when i was covering watergate, i would go to the hill out of the white house about once every three weeks and i would go around to republicans and democratic senators and we would have very civil enlightened conversations about what they were thinking and they were in touch with each other. you don't find that anymore. >> nope. tom brokaw, thank you so much for coming on this morning. >> thank you, tom. >> thanks, tom. coming up, russian president vladimir putin calls for talks with north korea, saying sanctions are not a solution. does he have a point? we're going to talk about what options the u.s. has left, ahead on "morning joe. dental professionals recommend using an electric toothbrush. for an exceptionally fresh feeling choose philips sonicare diamondclean. hear the difference versus oral b. in a recently published clinical study, philips sonicare diamondclean outperforms oral-b 7000,

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five minutes, mika, with us now editor of "the financial times" lionel barber. thank you for waking up early. >> good to be here. i'm still adjusting, joe. >> it's like 11:00 in london right now. >> it's actually coming up to noon. >> well, that, too. look at you. it is coming up to noon. so let's talk about daca. we've talked about the human cost and we've had republican congressmen on here and senators talking about why they would oppose it. let's talk about the business

community and the sort of pressure that paul ryan and other republicans are going to hear from the business community on extending this program. >> well, joe, we heard earlier about the low paid jobs those jobs in places like iowa, the meat processing that are supposedly immigrants are taking american jobs. the interesting thing for me is the way in which silicon valley has spoken up, the likes of mark zuckerberg. >> right. >> bob eiger of disney. >> came out strong yesterday. >> accrual, by the way watch him politically. >> yes. >> but then lloyd blankfein saying it's not fair, the head of goldman sachs saying it's really, he questioned why somebody who only knows america should be thrown out. >> tim cook the ceo of microsoft basically saying the government will have to come through us to deport our d.r.e.a.m.ers. >> and these are skilled. you can't get much more skilled

than silicon valley. >> right. >> so i think this would be very interesting, whether they start putting pressure on the likes of paul ryan, the speaker, and others to say look, okay, we may not be able to get comprehensiv comprehensive immigration reform as you were saying earlier, that didn't happen, hasn't happened 30 years, but we need to protect the 700,000, 800,000 people. they haven't committed crimes. they're going to pay taxes. they only know america. they shouldn't go home. >> this may be the issue that actually shows the largest divide between the republican establishment, the republican business community, and the nationalist wing of the party, the populist wing of the party, right. you will have every business owner for the most part saying, pass legislation, do not deport the d.r.e.a.m.ers. >> you even had the u.s. chamber of commerce. >> right. >> talking about fundamental american values.

when was that the last time you heard that kind of thing. >> doesn't happen a lot. >> so this is -- watch this space. >> yeah. >> what about this space, lionel. great britain dealing with brexit, we're dealing in this country with donald trump and what he does today by the hour. north korea's on the front burner. there have been a series of proposals, verbalized, not made, to crack down even further on china as a way to get north korea to crede to the requests of the administration to curtail nuclears weapons. what happens to the global economy if we get even tougher with china and a few chinese banks than we already are? >> you can certainly withstand some targeted sanctions against chinese banks, but if you were to pursue what the president was suggesting in a tweet -- by the way, maybe don't take everything seriously that goes off by twitter, but still, to close down all trade with anyone who's

doing business with north korea that would be an economic shock. you would see the bond market go crazy, the stock market go down. i don't think that's going to happen. that's bluster. the real issue for me and i think what markets are looking for, sensible markets are saying, is there going to be a coherent diplomatic initiative involving china and the united states and maybe others in order to try to put targeted pressure on north korea to freeze this program. >> many people are skeptical that that will happen. it's been tried before, tried go through china and ask them to lean harder on north korea to some avail, but not enough, obviously. what more from your point of view can be done? we've asked this of a number of senators who come on in the last couple days, nobody wants a preemptive military strike, but it's in the conversation. senator cans addressed that earlier this morning. what more can be done to a regime who doesn't seem terribly worried about sanctioned. >> they will be worried if the

oil supply was cut off. but i think the key here is that when we've talked about an approach, it's been largely on american terms. let's be clear, you have a dictator who's hellbent on pursuing a nuclear weapon that has, if you like, city strike capability, meaning either on the west coast. this is the goal is. a firmer nuclear weapon. this would change all the strategic calculations in north asia. however, however, the key now is to try to talk to the chinese in a way to say look, we need to hear what your concerns are. would you be prepared to apply some pressure in return for this. rather than just saying, apply the sanctions. >> would investors around the world see the fundamental strength right now of the american economy? >> flexible economy. confidence. i mean, we talk a lot about politics on this show, but actually, the -- in terms of raw

economic the figures, the american economy is performing really rather well. so, too, europe, often written off, not least by the brits. it's, you know, things are doing quite well. there's a big uncertainty about interest rates and when that happens what impact that will have, but i think, you know, technological strength, immigration -- sorry innovation, if you get this right on daca, immigration will be one of the great strengths, enduring strengths, of the american economy. >> how is the british economy fairing right now in the middle of a debate? because it's so interesting, we were over in london for a few weeks this summer. >> i heard you had a nice time. >> i had a wonderful time. >> did you get to buckingham palace. >> the queen was business this time. next time. >> i ran around it. >> mika ran around it. i looked at pictures on the internet. the concern of buckingham palace, but the concern is, at least in london, that our

problems that we're having, are temporary. and they -- i heard this time and time again. said, you think your situation is bad. your situation involves one man. our situation involves a process that no longer works, a political system that no longer works. are we being a little pessimistic? >> our problem is that we have made a once in a generation decision, which is binary, to tear up the most important trading relationship -- and by the way political relationship -- that we have, and we don't know what comes next. we say we don't want to -- we have no obligations to pay the divorce bill, all this stuff. i think as a result of this, there is -- there has been a short-term hit on the british economy. sterling has fallen. >> right. >> growth has fallen slightly, but the big question for britain is, what comes next? what is the new relationship that we have with the european

union. >> what do you think comes next? >> do you know we're going to have to have a transition. we're going to have to have three years where we essentially live under the existing rules. >> editor of the "financial times" thank you for coming. >> still ahead his state on donald trump's diversity council in the wake of president trump's response to char slotsville, but ending daca is a bridge too far. the head of the hispanic chamber of commerce discusses his decision to leave the president's council. and long lines in south florida as residents gas up to get out of hurricane irma's way. this is a big one. with 185-mile-an-hour winds, it's now the atlantic's strongest hurricane ever. we'll have the latest path. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. middle of . hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely.

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good morning. it's wednesday, september 6th. welcome to "morning joe." with us, we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnacle. senior political -- please. >> do it again. >> we have with us mike barnacle. >> hey. >> you know what -- >> senior political analyst for msnbc mark halperin and in washington, nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt. yesterday, the trump administration announced an end to applications for the obama administration's 2012 program

protecting 800,000 people brought into the country illegally as children from deportations. but president trump appeared to -- >> no wait. he was actually for it during the campaign, he brought d.r.e.a.m.ers in. you've changed my mind. you have warmed my heart i think he said in trump tower and now i get it. >> well, he appeared to signal a change in his position last night after a day of shifting responsibility for ending the program to others. he began the day by tweeting, congress, get ready to do your job. daca! >> daca! >> and then he sent attorney general jeff sessions out to make the announcement. >> the nation must set and enforce a limit on how many immigrants we admit each year and that means all cannot be accepted. this does not mean they are bad people or that our nation disrespects or demeans them in any way. it means we are properly enforcing our laws as congress

has passed them. >> why did the president not come out and make this announcement himself today? why did he leave it to his attorney general? >> it's in large part a big part of the legal process. this was deemed illegal by, i think, just about every legal expert that you can find in the country including many of obama's own attorneys said this was not a lawful program and, therefore, it would be the department of justice to make a legal recommendation and that's what they did. >> senate minority leader chuck schumer hypothesized that sending sessions out to make the announcement instead of doing it himself showed trump is ashamed of his decision. >> well -- i don't think that's fair. i don't think he really understood his decision, i'm not being facetious. there are people inside the white house saying that he really didn't understand the

impact of his decision and they expected, mark halperin, over time, that, as things moved forward, his position would soften and change. little did they know that it happened in a matter of hours and it kept changing over and over again. i love -- by the end of the night, he put on barry white and was just like, you know, doing press conferences about d.r.e.a.m.ers. it was just a love story. d.r.e.a.m.ers are a love story and he was saying if congress won't do it, golly darn, then i'm going to have to revisits this myself. >> good reporting on the barry white stuff. >> very few people have it right now. maggie haberman is chasing barry white but she had carl carlton. no, it's barry white. >> yeah. immigration is a top emotional issue and this president has learned how difficult it is. i think the notion that congress is somehow going to grapple with this because the president feels congress should grapple with it is silly, and i predict that he

will have to revisit it. >> but let's talk about -- >> wait. >> and change policy again. >> what's going on here? you have a president that does something extraordinarily unpopular, it goes throughout the day, he finds out even 75% of his own people, according to a politico poll are against it, probably -- this is hard to say because he's done so many unpopular things over the past seven, eight months. this is easily the least popular thing donald trump has done. do you think he really didn't understand that until he got the feedback and that's why he did a 180 about five times? >> it's a great example of how the loudest voices on the national town square on the right and left can drown out and create a distortion for politicians. this is a policy that, again, is complicated, it's become partisan, but i think he will have to revisit it. i don't think any of the people who were given this status under president obama i don't think any will be kdeported. >> another thing i didn't under,

willie, how botched once again the communication rollout was. >> yep. >> if i wanted to do this, i would start my press conference by saying, barack obama said in 2012. this is not really the job of the president to do. this is a temporary fix and it can only be temporary. congress has to step up and make this the law of the land. you know, jonathan carl was pointing that out yesterday afternoon. barack obama said that in 2012. donald trump could have just led with that yesterday. but i guess he wanted to be attacked by the left because it helped him with his base. >> you really think he's thinking that way? >> yeah, yeah of course. >> it seems like white hurt. >> he wants to be seen as, you know, as the enemy to fake media, et cetera. >> there are a couple big problems with what happened yesterday. number one, he sent out the attorney general of the united states to say that it was illegal, that daca was illegal, we have to be a nation of laws.

this is a law and order issue that donald trump has said himself. if it's illegal why are you then asking -- why are you suggesting you could come back and fix it yourself in a way you said was illegal using executive authority. >> as rich lowry said last night after the bizarre tweet came out, well, you just undercut all leverage for yourself. >> right. >> and so to that to me is the second part which is the great of the art of the deal deal maker came out, going out being celebrated by his supporters with we're getting rid of this thing, daca is no good, he watched coverage, we'll play the sound bite, i have a lot of heart for these folks, a lot of love for these d.r.e.a.m.ers to bright a tweet at the -- write a tweet at the end of the night i'm going to revisit this issue because it may not turn out the way you would like. >> this is all i am giving you. take it or leave it. >> yes. i am going to give you a little bit more. here. i mean, mike, he panicked.

we saw the president of the united states panicking. >> he was watching too much television. >> panicking in the middle of the day. seeing polls. name the last thing that 75% of trump supporters opposed that donald trump did. they opposed this action. they opposed the deportation of d.r.e.a.m.ers. see, this is what happens -- try to explain it politely on air to the president. but when you listen to people like steve bannon and you listen to people -- the screamers on the far right, far, far extreme alt-right, not even conservatives, and they make all this noise you start thinking wow, that's where america is. no. that's where -- this is what you have a 33, 34, 35% approval rating. >> first of all, i mean how is it this big tough guy, donald trump, who continually tells us how tough he is, allows his attorney general, jeff sessions, to tell him publicly he will not

defend daca in court in texas. that he will not use the justice department to defend daca in court against jim paxton the texas attorney general who is under felony indictment for securities fraud, then secondly, to your point, joe, he doesn't understand clearly, apparently, his own strength with that fraction of his base that might be inclined to yell and scream and be upset about daca. he could have convinced them had he come out himself yesterday on stage, instead of jeff sessions, and by the way, maybe then he could have explained his great feel to the rule of law -- >> i don't know. >> this deal maker that blurts everything out, like you could have quietly gone behind closed doors and you could actually negotiated. >> yeah. >> there are so many moving parts right now as congress moves towards wanting to recess, you've got -- they've got to finish the budget, they've got to figure out how to take care of the debt ceiling, they've got to figure so many things out,

mika, it -- this would be such an easy deal to make. and you could say, listen, i'm going to put this on you guys, if you guys don't come up with a responsible plan, we can get partial funding for the wall so i win, you guys can take care of daca, so we all win, we can increase spending on military. you can pile it all together. >> it points to a bigger problem. >> well the bigger problem points to -- >> i don't think he can finish a thought. >> he's a day trader and always been a day trader. >> that would be good news at this point. kasie, as joe mentioned, later in the afternoon, yesterday, the president answered a question about his february promise to handle daca recipients with, quote, great heart. take a listen. >> mr. president, how much of the daca -- >> i have a great heart for the folks we're talking about. a great love for them. and people think in terms of children, but they're really young adults.

i have a love for these people and hopefully now congress will be able to help them and do it properly. i can tell you in speaking to members of congress, they want to be able to do something and do it right and really we have no choice. we have to be able to do something and i think it's going to work out very well and long it term it's going to be the right solution. >> so there you go. all he want is he wants it to pass -- >> he followed with a tweet, quote i look forward to working with ds and rs in congress to address immigration reform in a way that puts hardworking citizens of our country first. last night congress now has six months to legalize daca, something the obama administration was unable to do. if they can't, i will revisit this issue. that last tweet was perhaps predicted by "the new york times" which reported earlier yesterday, quote, as late as one hour before the decision was to be announced administration officials privately expressed concern that mr. trump might not

fully grasp the details of the steps he was about to take and when he discovered their full impact, would change his mind. kasie, i saw paul ryan sitting next to the president smiling. what are people saying? what are they really saying and why can't they just say it? >> look, i think that there's a lot of confusion among republicans -- >> how is this confusing? >> about what i he would do something like this. they didn't just come out and say, hey, fix daca in six months. sarah huckabee sanders stood at the podium and said we want congress to do comprehensive immigration reform and add daca to it. that's ludicrous if you've been paying attention to how congress has handled the issue before. we were in a place where members of congress were actually talking about getting along because they suddenly have to solve these bigger problems around all of these hurricane victims and then the president dropped a poisonous bomb into the middle of his own party. this issue is toxic. >> then he guesses on why,

kasie? >> i think it seems to be part of this pattern where, you know, he feels the need to push aggressively if he feels like he's not in control of the news cycle. this is something that clearly -- we talked about it for a week. this was brewing behind the scenes. we've talked about how steve bannon has more influence on the outside than inside, although take those reports as you will. there is a lot of frustration, i will say, among particularly the senate leadership on this, that they are potentially going to have to deal with something that they, frankly, i mean they're sick of dealing with these issues they cannot get through their own caucus and looking forward to actually doing a little bit of governing. this makes it so much harder. >> still ahead on "morning joe," business leaders are in open revolt over the president's daca announcement with microsoft and apple vowing to fight the head of hispanic chamber of commerce joins us live after quitting the head of the president's

diversity council in disgust. fema is nearly out of money. can congress get relief done and raise the debt ceiling at the same time? here's bonnie snyder with hurricane irma's track. >> we are looking at a power category 5 category with maximum sustained winds 185 miles per hour. let's take a closer look because the track shifted a little bit probably since overnight that maybe you last saw the advisories. a category 5, but watch what happens as the storm works its way to the north/northwest. eventually florida in that cone of uncertainty. but really it's the -- watching that turn to the north. when will it occur? it looks like in our latest runs that we're seeing it occur a little sooner and a little bit further east than what we saw earlier. so let's take a closer look at the spaghetti models. this shows you a lot of the consensus of the models more recently have been shifting further east. this is really a good point because we want to make sure everyone in the southeast is on alert for irma, including those in georgia, coastal areas across

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with fema set to run out of disaster relief money by the end of the week the house of representatives is scheduled to vote on the hurricane harvey and aid package today. the $7.8 billion relief bill is expected to pass overwhelmingly. but when it gets to the senate gop leaders are expected to add

legislation to increase the debt ceiling. >> fema literally is running out of funds at the end of this week. unless we raise the debt ceiling, there will not be any way that congress can actually appropriate that emergency funding and get it to the federal emergency management agency to help those in so much need. >> but a growing number of conservatives have reservations about that plan. texas senator ted cruz told reporters yesterday, quote, i think the best way to have a relief package move quickly is for it to be a clean package, not to have it tied to unrelated matters. and senator rand paul has said he will object to adding debt ceiling legislation to the harvey aid bill which could seriously delay the legislation potentially passed friday when fema's money will likely run out. kasie hunt, i mean, at this point, the money needs to get where it needs to go, does it

not? >> it does. and i think that there is an incredible amount of pressure around this and congress. the administration has made this argument. they sent a letter up to the hill saying look, basically there's not enough space until we hit the debt ceiling you have to do these two things together if you want to spend these additional billions on harvey aid. i think the cruz thing is a little bit surprising. he refused to answer questions from reporters about whether he would actually vote no on harvey aid if it were tied to the debt ceiling, but -- >> of course he did. >> right. and look, i think this is also a play on the part of gop leaders to avoid another war within the conference and the caucus. i mean raising the debt ceiling is something they were going to have trouble doing anyway. the house in particular will revolt. this solves a lot of problems for real people and for republicans in congress. rand paul could throw the whole thing off. >> mike, this is the sort of thing, let me ask, what would tip o'neill do if one senator

was going to stop relief aid? object to it and delay it? >> well, it wouldn't have happened. >> well -- >> that's like ancient history. tip o'neill and bob michael, great friends, republican leader, tip o'neill and gerald ford in the house, best of friends. it was an entirely different age and era in terms of legislating. now, every single day with regard to things like fema and the appropriations for fema with the debt limit, i mean you achieve new heights of hypocrisy by the hour. >> coming up, sanctions haven't seemed to slow north korea's developments. what's left in the toolbox for the world community? we're going to speak to senator chris coons. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. what started as a passion

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we can't continue to kick this down the road. we have to make sure we're looking out for it. if you look at north korea now, the reasons we're pushing for so many sanctions, you know, do we think more sanctions are going to work on north korea? not necessarily. but what does it do? it cuts off the revenue that allows them to build ballistic

missiles. that's u.n. ambassador nikki haley speaking yesterday. joining us a member of both the foreign relations and judiciary committees, democratic senator chris coons of della war. always good to have you here. let's talk first about north korea. what options, in your mind, as someone who studies foreign policy very closely r on the table right now for the united states? we just heard nikki haley say sanctions don't really work and, you know, there's a lot of truth to what you say there, a decade or so of sanctions that haven't changed the path towards a now, weapon of north korea. no one wants to go down the other path which is a preemptive military strike. what is the best option on the table. >> later today we will get a briefing for all senators from the secretaries of defense and state and the director of national sbemintelligence, and hoping to hear what the trump administration's strategy is. i think even though there is reasonable question whether or not sanctions will ultimately deter kim jong-un of north korea, i think we have to

continue to try as hard as we can all diplomatic options while at the same time strengthening the anti-missile defenses of our allies south korea and japan and preparing to deploy stronger and more effective anti-missile defenses for the united states, for guam and the homeland, and frankly, after today's consultation, i think congress and the administration need to prepare for what would happen if we were required by increased threats that were increasingly credible from north korea to prepare for conflict. >> what sanctions are left? that's the question a lot of people have. what could you do to turn the screws on north korea that hasn't been tried already and frankly hasn't worked already? >> china really hasn't applied the complete economic pressure against north korea that it could. and the challenge for us is to decide whether or not we want to provide the sort of pressure on the chinese economy that might compell them to take actions

against north korea. i'll remind you, this is the sort of work that the obama administration did to finally isolate iran and bring them to the table to negotiate about their nuclear weapons program. not just indirect sanctions, not just u.n. sanctions or eu sanctions but secondly sanctions that blocked access to the american financial system for any country selling -- buying oil excuse me from iran. we've got one major trading partner for north korea, a very isolated country, and that's china. and given the complex web of economic ties between china and the united states, we'd have to hesitate to really tighten the screws on china because it would have consequences for us but china's not yet fully pulling everything that they could to affect north korea. >> senator chris coons, we appreciate you coming by as always, thank you. >> coming up on "morning joe," immigration is just the latest for some evangelicals with the

presidentp. high-profile pastors are trying to keep the faith despite disagreement with the commander in chief. did they not see this coming? >> i don't know. >> we will have "the washington post's" latest reporting in just a few minutes when "morning joe" continues. hey, i've got the trend analysis. hey. hi. hi. you guys going to the company picnic this weekend? picnics are delightful. oh, wish we could. but we're stuck here catching up on claims. but we just compared historical claims to coverages. but we have those new audits.

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will you remain on the president's national diversity council after what you heard over the last several days? >> i will be staying on the council as of right now. you know, this is not about serving a president. this is about serving the 4.2 million hispanic-owned firms. our job is" knot done yet. if i walk away and give up in frustration the only people who win are the steve bannons and the steve millers of this world. they would love to have one less hispanic with free access to the white house to the president to ivanka trump and several of the secretaries. >> that was javier palomarez. >> what does the steve miller band have to do with this? >> steve bannon is not there. steve miller.

the president and ceo of the u.s. hispanic chamber of commerce after charlottesville explained his decision to stay on the president's national diversity coalition. yesterday he resigned from that coalition. javier joins us now. javier, good morning. let's start right there. what was it about yesterday that had you step down that didn't have you step down last month? >> well good morning, willie, thank you for having me. you know, as you know, there are some 800,000 d.r.e.a.m.ers in this country right now. we all know that they've had to undergo rigorous background checks. none of them receive any kind of welfare assistance or government subsidies of any kind. 65,000 of them graduate from high school every year. 10,000 graduate from college every year. these are exactly the kind of driven, dedicated young people we need in our country. our proverbial line in the sand

was the d.r.e.a.m.ers. when i agreed to offer advice and counsel when called upon by this administration, i made it clear that this was what we were working toward. you know, we knew that immigration was going to be a contentious issue, it was going to be something very important to this administration. among all the things that were being considered around this issue of immigration and its broadest context, chief among them, were the people, were the actual individuals whose lives were in the balance. >> so javier -- >> above all were the young people, these d.r.e.a.m.ers. that was the one issue we were working toward and when that line was crossed, it was time for us to leave. >> so javier, were you led to believe over the course of the last seven months or maybe longer by the president, that he was on the side of the d.r.e.a.m.ers, that he would, indeed, support daca? he called them incredible kids during the campaign. yesterday he said i have a lot of heart and a lot of love for the d.r.e.a.m.ers. did he lead you to believe he was going to protect them?

were you surprised yesterday? >> he led several of us to believe that he would protect them. as you just recounted four months ago, he was talking about dealing with them, you know, with a lot of heart. he told them rest easy, we are going to focus our efforts on hardened criminal, not on the d.r.e.a.m.ers. and literally through the weekend, up until the very last minute, we did not know exactly where he was going to land. and so when the decision finally came out, you know, we had been very clear once that line got crossed, i would step off of the council and that's exactly what happened. >> do you feel, i know the national diversity coalition actually never formally met, do you feel like you were used as a prominent latino man in america for president trump to say yes, i am listening to the concerns of latinos in this country? >> you know, this is less about my feelings than it is doing the right thing. i was called upon to help.

it is my responsibility as an american to do everything i can to help this administration or any administration for that matter move our country forward. this was an important issue. you know, if you look at this thing from an economic perspective -- and that's the argument that i was making -- if you look at d.r.e.a.m.ers from an economic perspective, they pay over $2 billion a year in taxes, they don't receive any kind of government benefits or subsidies of any kind, it would cost the american people over $60 billion to remove them from this country, and over a ten-year period of time we would lose over $280 billion of economic contribution because we've removed these 800,000 people. it's less about me than doing the right thing by these people and all the american people. >> killing their dreams. >> he's put the ball in congress's court. javier palomarez stepping aside now from the national diversity council, one that never formally met in the first place.

javier, thanks so much for being with us this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> to the conversation, republican political strategist and msnbc political contributor rick tyler and author columnist and msnbc contributor mike lupica. we want to play for you guys what ohio governor john kasic said earlier this morning. >> think about this. this is the united states of america. and we're putting kids, young people, who are contributors in jeopardy. this is not the america that we all love. this is a melting pot. by the way, if the d.r.e.a.m.ers want to go somewhere and live, come to ohio. we want all the immigrants to come to ohio because we know how much they contribute to america. >> all right. so mike lupica, you've known donald trump for a long time. explain, we're trying to figure out yesterday, hes comes out and sends a message to his base that he's going to be tough on immigration, sort of america first position. then he changes later on and

talk about how much he loves d.r.e.a.m.ers, i love them, i love them, i love them. and then he goes and tweets immediately another america first tweet. we got to worry about american workers first. and then he follows that up with, i love them, i love them, i love them. if congress won't do this -- >> little incoherent. >> there were four flips yesterday, flips and flops. explain what -- what was going on in donald trump's head there? >> this is why and what it is like having a category 5 presidency. this is a presidency that could only properly be evaluated by the weather channel and people like that. >> right. >> you said it yesterday on twitter. dude, pick a lane. just pick a lane and -- i think you said this, stay with it for more than four hours. >> he can't. >> four hours seems to be -- >> a tweet is different. but go ahead. >> and watch him. >> consult a doctor if you can't stay with it more than four

hours. >> watching his immigrant hating attorney general make that statement yesterday. >> right. >> that smirking constitutional expert we have in the attorney general's office, you know, all i kept thinking was, what kind of a country do we want to be? what is the rest of the world thinking when they watch a clown show like this? >> so, the thing is, for you looking at this, professionals looking at this, you sit there and go it didn't have to be that way. the president could have easily said, you know, five years ago, president obama said we're going to have a temporary stop-gap measure, but it's only temporary. >> that is what he said. >> i know. i'm saying this what is the president could have -- >> an argument here. >> the president could have said why ed. and said because it is a stop gap measure and i don't believe it will pass constitutional measure, because it was intended as a stop gap measure, we need congress to step forward and act responsibly and either end it or

mend it or however you want to put it. he could have done that. instead, he just blustered his way through the entire day. >> yeah. yesterday was pretty remarkable. >> watching tv all day. >> it seemed that jeff sessions had a reasonable legal argument, in fact the states led by texas, would challenge daca. the problem is, everybody seems to be on the wrong side for the right reasons. because if it did go to court and the administration prevailed, which is meaning that the president obama's daca was correct, then you would accord that new power to the presidency which you would actually give it to donald trump which the left and people who support d.r.e.a.m.ers don't want. >> right. >> so it gets remarkably confusing. so i do like mike's model. i think we should get the national weather service to do predicative analysis of where this administration is going. >> good luck.

>> a hurricane -- went and visited the hurricane channel. >> it is the weather channel. you're so right. >> column list in for new york for years, known trump for years, what's going on in there? >> joe, you guys talk about this every single day and to me it is the great mystery, and maybe you guys have a theory, who is he listening to? is he actually listening to the young roy chon, stephen miller. who told him this was a good position? something that even his base hates. you've been talking about that all morning. >> 75% of his base is against this. 80% of americans is against this. that fact should have been known to a white house yesterday morning. >> no. >> he doesn't spell czech h-che tweets. why would he know anything. >> he wants to punt to congress which might have been a good strategy that congress will act. congress hasn't acted since '86. >> let's say, as conservatives

we think it's a good idea to actually pass laws. >> yeah. >> the way james madison and hamilton thought you were supposed to pass laws. >> this is the problem. >> and if a president says an executive order is temporary, make it permanent or get it off the books. on substance, we understand. >> congress was complicit. >> he bungled this horribly. >> like many things, declaring war and things, congress doesn't want to make that decision. give it to the president and let him do that, we'll be against it but won't do anything about it. trump put it back in their court. but then he seemed to reverse himself -- >> four times. >> because -- >> he's got to turn the tv off. >> as if he didn't know what the implications of the decision would mean. it's important to understand, giving d.r.e.a.m.ers legal status permanently is not amnesty. the reason i say that, d.r.e.a.m.ers didn't break the

law. and amnesty applies to people who readily broke the law. d.r.e.a.m.ers did not break the law, cannot be amnesty. >> that's right. my god. up next, why are so many evangelical leaders are standing by the president's side, despite one controversial decision after another. keep it right here on "morning joe." symptoms. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before or during treatment, always tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems.

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several corporate leaders stepped down from the white house advisory board in reaction to some of the president's controversial moves. but as "the washington post" points out, most evangelical leaders aren't going anywhere, and it all comes down to access. one board member says they've got the most direct line to the white house in decades. many of those faith leaders were known to president trump on their past appearances on tv. while several say they unsuccessfully lobbied the president against rescinding daca they're claiming credit for winning a six-month delay. joining us now is the writer of that "washington post" piece senior writer frances seller. good to have you back on the show. >> good morning, mika. great to be back. >> it sounds so transactional for a faith leader? >> that is a word i used in the piece. i think there is definitely a notion here they have access. they called the nomination a home run for evangelicals and they have their minds set on

these big issues, united against abortion, united against gay marriage, and now what's so surprising in some ways to us, to discover how many of them have been lobbying the president since they joined this board last june in favor of the d.r.e.a.m.ers. >> and are they -- are they getting everything that they want and is there not any moral compass to base their decisions on, given some of the things we've seen in terms of the actions of this president? >> we have seen -- we have seen just two members of this group -- and the group is an unofficial group, they tell me it's evolved since last june when it was formed, but only two members leave. one was last october following the release of the notorious "access hollywood" tape one then labeled the president worthless and this time after charlottesville, ar bernard who runs the church in brooklyn stepped away. he said if you start putting

your faith in a political figure, instead of in god, as a religious leader, you could be guilty of political idolatry. strong words from him. the other group has stayed has with him including some hispanic leaders and they feel vindicated. we learned about this extraordinary meeting in the oval office on friday when several of them, a handful of them, went before the president and made the case for d.r.e.a.m.ers and spoke in a very personal way. this isn't just the hispanic leaders. if you think about where these megachurches are, they have enormously diverse congregations. one man, one pastor, jenson franklin, told me he went before the president and said i'm speaking to you as a father and these are kids i know. i shake their hands every day. they're good, young people. they're good, young people. we need to do something for him. and he said to the president, i know you love your children. think about these children too. it was a very powerful personal message. now, the result has been, as you

rightly pointed out earlier on in the show, a complicated political issue now. but they claim credit, these hispanics pastors, for that six-month delay that's been built in. >> so do you -- any criticism yesterday after the decision he made from these evangelical leaders? >> i think samuel rodriguez, who's head of the national hispanic christian leadership council made a statement, six months is too long. so clear disappointment, but i think at the moment they recognize their access is useful to them on these broader issues and they're not stepping away yet. we'll see. there could be political consequences, which is something rodriguez pointed out before. as i said, the world has changed. we know that 81% of white evangelicals voted for the president. these pastors now represent vastly diverse churches. >> wow. great piece. "the washington post" frances

sellers, thank you very much for sharing. so rick -- >> we're going to you, rick. donald trump being a champion of evangelicals is something that no one foresaw in the fall of 2015. nobody could. this is a guy who was pro-choice, pro gun control, pro gay marriage. he even bragged during the south carolina primary about his support for planned parenthood. he said planned parenthood did great things. and you go through his life and the decisions made. i mean a lot of these pastors have kicked people out of their churches for doing 1/100 of what they now sit by and justify. >> and support. >> i think it is remarkable. having worked in the evangelical political circles for a long time, you would have thought they would have got on board with ted cruz wholeheartedly.

they did get on board locally with mike huckabee in iowa and he won iowa. ted cruz also won iowa. while donald trump won evangelicals, ted cruz actually won evangelicals who we verified actually attended church every sunday. so just because -- >> we actually saw this. there was a big split between people who identified themselves as evangelicals who didn't go to church and people who identified themselves as evangelicals who actually went to church. donald trump didn't do as well with evangelicals who actually attended church services. >> there are millions of catholics where you would say what are you, people say catholic. when was the last time you went to church? >> christmas. >> christmas. same in the evangelical community. they were brought up in the church but they don't attend every sunday. the question you ask, do you go to church every sunday? yes. did you go last sunday? that's a very difficult question. people will say, well, that's not -- that wasn't a cruz voter. that was a trump voter. >> meanwhile, the pastor of a

north carolina church has quit his post after backlash to a speech he delivered at the mtv video music awards in the wake of the charlottesville violence where he started by simply introducing himself. >> my name is robert lee iv. i'm a descendant of robert e. lee, the civil war general whose statue was at the center of violence in charlottesville. we have made my ancestor an idol of white supremacy, racism and hate. as a pastor, it is my moral duty to speak out against racism, america's original sin. >> reverend lee iv joins us now. he has since left his post as pastor after what he calls a deeply hurtful reaction to his speech. thank you so much for being with us, reverend. you know, i better not call him

a friend because it will get him in trouble, but russell moore got in trouble with the southern baptist church for actually saying some pretty obvious things about donald trump during the campaign. i was shocked by that. i think i'm even more shocked that you got in trouble for calling out white supremacy. what can you tell us? what happened? >> well, i can ultimately say that it detracts from the message that we're trying to communicate with, which is that black lives do matter and that there are black and brown bodies in our streets and people are being disproportionately treated unfairly by the hurricane response teams simply because of the color of their skin and all of this is just detracting from the message. but ultimately when you speak up and when you speak out about issues of justice, sometimes the cost is great and ultimately i found out for me the cost would indeed be great. by losing my job over there. >> did you have deacons come to you telling you to leave the church, what happened? >> what was said? >> there was a small faction of

the church that had a loud enough voice that was saying i should not be speaking up about these issues. they were not comfortable with me speaking about and uplifting these movements and they were not comfortable with the media attention they were receiving about it. i just felt that with a vote coming on my tenure there, i could no longer simply sit by and allow that to happen. so instead i chose to resign. >> reverend, where have hurricane victims been treated differently because of the color of their skin, as you just indicated? >> well, i mean it's obvious that the disproportionate number of black people that are being treated unfairly and not cared for because they live in poor communities, the response has been just unfortunate. you know, we see that we are caring for -- joel osteen not opening up his doors for people. that's not good for christians.

that's not responding to persons of color who are white allies. i think we have to speak up and speak out about these issues and name them for what they are. >> reverend, it's willie geist. back to the issue of your church and your decision to resign there, was the specific criticism not that you stood up against white supremacy, i'd like to believe everyone in your congregation supported that, was it about your uplifting of plaq black lives matter in particular? i'm not sure i understand what their specific complaint was with you. >> i think in rural america, some people view some of these movements differently than, say, i view them or you might view them or your viewers might view them. i think it's a dangerous narrative that is being told in that portion of the united states that there is a situation where these black lives matter are militant and terrorists. i don't consider them to be that but there are obviously some people who do. >> mike lupica.

>> you know, listening to the reverend talk, it's clear that he is a man of principle and faith. what you started this whole conversation about, mika, is sometimes i worry that evangelicals in this country and evangelical leaders are acting like lobbyists, and they shouldn't. >> well, that is the fear. >> reverend, thank you so much for being with us. reverend robert lee iv, greatly appreciate it. again, we're talking about access for a lot of these pastors who are, a lot of them tv -- televangelists. >> christians are like everybody else, right, they self identify as sinners. they have their faults. some indeed do want access. actually very few people in the room there actually have politically a stick to swing. like show me -- yes, we can show the voters, but show me how you, pastor, turned out these people for donald trump an i think very

few of them could actually say that they could turn out voters. >> listen, i think, again, it's hard really right now, mike, to look at the high number of evangelicals. 81%, hillary clinton 16%. i don't know how different those would be today if those were the two choices. if it's donald trump against, you know, somebody else in the republican party, ben sasse, that may be completely different. >> i think the result would be exactly the same today as it was during the election for largely the reason is that the democratic party, democrats in general on a national scale, have very little understanding of the depth of feeling about faith and religion. they're afraid to talk about it, they're afraid to mention it in political discourse. they regard every minister that's on tv rolling around on the stage yelling and screaming,

they think that's what faith is. it's not. and they don't address it an they lose votes because of it. >> listen, there is a massive disconnect, you are exactly right, between people of faith and at least democratic leadership. if that's not the case, that certainly has been the perception among most evangelical and conservative catholic voters now for a very, very long time. orthodox jews, for a very, very long time. >> we're going to have to leave it right there. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, much to cover, starting with the eye of the storm. that image right there, that is irma, the category 5 hitting florida or at least having florida in its sights and puerto rico directly in its path. >> we have no idea what's in store. we'll have to pray for the best. >> and it's your