you know? like all of that. all of that. >> you said this interview was almost over and you were right. kamala harris of the senator from california. >> you're welcome. thank you. the interview is over and so is our show. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. >> irma heading to florida. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we have big news on the russia investigation with donald trump jr. being interviewed before the senate judiciary committee. we have to begin that monster storm heading toward southern florida. residents are boarding up and getting out. the storm is expected to make landfall this weekend. and let me read to you the lead for the associated press. it puts it in perspective. they call at this time big one. a mythic massive murn would

obliterate the densely populated southeast coast. it has long been the stuff of florida's nightmares. i recalla, it appears, could be it. it has triggered real panic among 6 million people. currently, the category 5 storm with winds up to 175 miles an hour is barreling toward the florida peninsula. >> we are working very hard. the people of florida are like the people of texas, louisiana, you're seeing how the people of our country have reacted under this tremendous pressure and these horrible things that we call hurricanes. this is something that is probably bigger, not as much water but much more power than harvey. >> much more power than harvey. in its wake, irma left a path of

devastation. look at the destruction across the caribbean. killing at least ten people and leaving a million without power. earlier today, all of south florida came under hurricane warnings and governor scott had this dire warning. >> look at the size of this storm. it is wider than our entire state and could cause major life threatening impacts from coast to coast. do not ignore evacuation orders. you can rebuild your home and buy possessions but we can't rebud your life or your family. >> you know, i'm trying to figure out the tremor that's coming. is that the sense we're getting in these days before bits to hit florida? >> reporter: hey there, a lot of people are talking about this storm and referring to hurricane andrew. 25 years ago, the massive category 5 hurricane that hit florida with sustained winds up to 165 miles an hour.

irma is packing an even bigger punch. we're seeing growing lines for fuel. people are rushing to stock up and the fuel is selling out before supply trucks can get here. governor rick scott said some of these supply trucks are being escorted by police of they're really trying to resupply these gas stations. we're seeing a run on food and supplies, body water is flying off the shefs. it is not just florida. up and down the east coast. four states have states of emergency. florida, georgia and the carries. the national guard as far north as north carolina. nearly 700,000 people in florida are rushing to get out. some of the major highways, i-95, i-75, have seen gridlock and shelters are opening up in miami dade county. people are satisfying this very seriously. what makes this very different, this storm unlike andrew, which sliced through east to west,

this one, the projected path could go from south to north. basically engulfing the entire state so there's no way to get out. some people are hunkering down. others are rushing north, trying get out of irma's path. >> bill carnes is at the nbc weather center. i wonder about florida. not tonight, the conversation about climate change. but it is a fact, florida has very low ground level. very close to sea level. it wouldn't take much for a surge to sweep that peninsula of the. >> that's an excellent point. this is completely different than harvey. this devastation will be caused by the winds and the storm surge near where the lavell will be. there will be areas hit so hard that they'll be uninhabitable for weeks. that's how bad it will be. we don't know where it will occur. i know it is frustrating people.

we'll get a better idea in a couple days and maybe even 24 hours. our thoughts, our immediate thoughts are with the turks and caicos islands. as the sun sets, it was right over the top. they are in the middle of a cat 5 hurricane at this time. let's go to the wider view and see where we are with the storm. you can see florida to the left. cuba, 175-mile-an-hour winds. it is incredible we've had a storm this strong for almost two, two and a half days. it is almost unheard of. usually cat 5s for one or two days. the longest was only three and this could top that. movement west northwest. the hurricane center gives us the new koechb uncertainty every six hours. the next big update is at 11:00. saturday, two:00 p.m. look how close it is. there's miami. key largo here. it avoids the mountains.

they think a little weakening. forecasted intensity is very different. this could easily be a cat 5 as it makes landfall or approaches florida. we've been in worst case for miami for about 24 hours. this forecast hasn't changed. this is 2:00 p.m. on sundays. inland, now worst over florida. still 130-mile-per-hour winds. then the hurricane center has that center line right up the coast. then somewhere in the carries, georgia, as far west as even approaching the areas. now let's get into the watches and warnings. lake okeechobee. right now, everyone that's not in the pan handle could see hurricane force gusts. now to the computer models. we still have 36 hours of

forecasting on this. you'll hear about the european forecasting versus the american forecasting. the usa model was off the coast. as we advance this in time, this is toward the lavell. 9:00 al sunday morning. this is excellent agreement with two models. not what we want for florida. we wanted it off the coast and to miss south florida. now both of them would have the eye wall into southeast florida come sundays morning at daybreak. you turn your tv on here on msnbc, you will see what a cat 4, possibly a cat 5 hurricane looks like hitting the and u.s. southern florida. there are still 48 hours. some could change. we hope it will. we pray it will. that it will go further east. a slow moving cat 4-5 devastating storm. this is as bad as you can ever forecast. i made the analogy, if i was teaching a meteorology class and i said give me a hurricane that

would be absolutely the worst, they would draw this. >> what are the authorities telling people had a live in exposed areas like key west and all the keys? and then on to miami beach and south beef. to me, 38 toechy exposed to the elements. >> if there's anyone who didn't do the mandatory evacuation that you just mentioned, if they see this and they're hearing it from all the meteorologists, you do not want to wait this one out. they're thinking the storm surge could be as high as 15 feet. this monitor here is only about seven feet. this would be double monitor. then you'll have the wave action. debris in the water hitting up again. even the houses 10 to 12 feet on stilts, those will still go down. >> there's no strong brick buildings in the keys. these are wooden buildings. maybe a couple floors high from what i remember. it seems nothing is built for this. >> most people can't afford to

build their thoems withstand a cat 4 or 5. they usually do it for a cat 2 or 3. the amount of money to survive a 155-mile-per-hour storm, most people can't pay that money. >> so what is it like? i've seen some pictures. can you head north and get out of harm's way? is it doable at this point? >> the biggest thing is gas. people are struggling to find gas. >> we're seeing it now. three or four-lane crunch heading north. slowly heading north on i guess 95. >> only two ways out of the the east highway on 95. or you can come up across alligator alley and go north. those are the only two escape routes. >> you're going to run out of gas in that kind of speed. you'll get out there on that highway of the. >> don't even try it without a full tank.

>> you see how florida is like this. the shape of it. it is only 140 miles wide. now that we've taken the forecast which was a little further east he and put it in the middle. a lot of people went from west palm to sarasota. they just had a warning for pinellas. now we have such a huge area of risk that everyone has to go to the middle of the state. i manning everyone is going on i-4 into the orlando and kissimmee areas. i'm sure those hotels are all booked up. and it could be 120-mile-an-hour winds. i lived there when hurricane charlie went through and we didn't have power for two weeks. there aren't many places that are safe in florida. if you can get to georgia or north georgia and you can get to alabama, mississippi, throws the only completely safe areas. >> he i hope people are missing. i remember when the governor of

new orleans years ago with katrina was saying we'll get 90% of the people out. that's pretty good unless you're the 10%. what about people who don't have cars? people this wheel chairs. we have to encourage what can be done from the authorities down. i hope rick scott has his act together. this one hell of a challenge for everyone. this is scariest weather report i think i've ever heard. let's bring in jacob from miami beach. i was thinking of south beach and all the fun lovers out there. the world of luxury and pleasure. there they are, totally exposed to god's work here. this is going to be nothing you can control except get out of the way. >> reporter: the only way i can describe is it it is absolutely eerie to be on one of the most famous beexs in the entire world and see virtually nobody. on a normal night you would see chairs. people out here.

music. people exercising, running up and down boardwalk. to hear you talk about the storm surge could be up to 15 feet, that's over the tops of these shacks here. part of the reason you see the forklifts picking things up, that's not the only preparation. all these hotels, condominiums, they're being board up. they're closing the windows. a lot of these people went through hurricane andrew and they know what to do. they're in the right target. one big group of people that is coming in here is the national guard. they're mobilizing 7,000 troop frss you a throughout the state. we were at the armory and these people who are just everyday floridians. some of them are sheriff's.

for one of the most amazing thins i see he is the unsung heroes in miami have come out before all of this happens. in the past two days about, a month's worth of trash has been picked up by the men and we will of the sanitation department of the county of miami-dade. it is hard to understand how important that is, the trash on people's front lawns, the discard mattresses and dressers, could become deadly debris in the event this becomes the hurricane as it is tracking to become and kill people. it is a very scary thing. these men and women have been out there every day. every single hour to make sure ultimately, if and when this hurricane comes, people are safe here in miami. >> i was thinking of being at the news cafe in good times. right now it's not where you

want to be. we will continue to follow hurricane irma throughout the hours. it moves closer and closer to florida. after a summer of shifting explanations, president trump's son, don junior, had another chance to explain what happened when he arranged the meeting in trump tower. plus, steve bannon is back and he is now working on outside, finding someone to replace house speaker paul ryan of he is causing trouble. is bannon more dangerous now that he's out than when he was in? and the deal with the democrats. we'll get the inside story on what happened there. it looks like trump changed partners and danced with the democrats finally, we'll get back to irma as it bears down on florida.

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we're coming right back with a big day on capitol hill today. donald trump jr. was questioned about his role in the meeting with the russians in trump tower. "hardball" returns after this. 'n security events every day. ddos campaigns, ransomware, malware attacks... actually, we just handled all the priority threats. you did that? we did that. really. we analyzed millions of articles and reports. we can identify threats 50% faster. you can do that? we can do that. then do that. can we do that? we can do that. he

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all your tv at home. the most on demand your entire dvr. top networks. and live sports on the go. included with xfinity tv. xfinity, the future of awesome. . after a host of evolving accounts and contradictory explanations, the president's eldest son had another chance to tell his side of the story of the staffers on the senate judiciary committee held a five-hour interview with donald trump jr. questioning him on all things russia. including the june 9th campaign meeting that he arranged with russia at trump tower last june. and he was recentive enough to the promise of kremlin dirt on hillary clinton that he proceeded with the meegd. saying to the extent they had

information concerning the fitness, character or qualifications of a presidential candidate, i believed i should at least hear them out. well, junior also told congressional investigators that he intended to seek legal advice on the matter but only after the meeting took place. quote, depending on what if any information they had, i could then consult with counsel to make an inforpd decision as to whether to give it further consideration. this guy has been lawyered up. according to the associated press, trump junior test senators that he did not collude with russians. but that's not true. we know days after he received that, donald trump boasted he would deliver damaging information with hillary clinton in the coming speech. let's watch him. >> i am going to give a major speech on probably monday of next week. and we're going to be discussing all of the things that have taken blas the clintons.

i think you will find it very informative and very, very interesting. >> well, six members of the judiciary committee were present for the interview with donald trump jr. following interview, the senator sent reporters a memo reminding they will that material false statements to congress are criminal. joining me, one of the committee members. richard blumenthal of connecticut, the new york types reporter in the interview today, and general rogers, a former federal prosecutor. did this guy, this son of the president, say anything today to dislodge us from the factual knowledge that he went into that room because of the promise of getting dirt on hillary clinton in. >> he left more questions unanswered than he answered. there were gaping holes which is why we need to have him come

back in public under oath in a hearing of the judiciary committee. he left nothing to dispel my impression that that june 9 meeting signaled to the russians, we're open for business. we're ready to deal. and he went to that meeting because he was promised in effect, dirt on hillary clinton. the word was incriminating. and his response was, love it. >> apparently his father loved it, too, because he went out and started bragging with the dirt on his opponent who looked at that moment like she would beat him of the. >> that's a good point. there are so many circumstantial facts here. that speech, the air force one statement, which came in effect from the president. and concealed the truth about that meeting, saying it was only about the adoption issue. so there is a lot of fact here. and ultimately, this investigation will be determined on the facts of the. >> i'm not sure the word dangle

is right, i've watched the americans enough times to know the russians have techniques. even in the post soviet days. is trump open to the idea, this candidate, he seems to be in trouble. maybe he's desperate enough to need our help. we'll test him with some dirt from this cut-out. this lawyer. >> it is a classic ploy. begin the overture, the prelude. have them come to the meeting. are they interested? what are the financial dealings here he? and that is equally important. we know now that donald trump, the president, was interested in a deal in russia. they followed through on it, at least to the point of the letter of intent. and follow the money is a classic investigative technique. the special counsel is obviously using it. he is interviewing white house staff as well as seeking records that would reflect. >> donald trump jr., his credibility. he began by saying nothing

happened with the russians. he then went on to say, something happened but hit to do with adoptions. good stuff like that. help with adoptions from russia. then it won't to, i was chaotic, i was confused, i was over my head. that sort of defense. i can't keep one this guy. and he said it had to do with fitness. i was being johnny citizen out there. i wanted to make sure no one who was unfit to be president would become president. he has changed his position so many times. even when he said i love it to this person who got into the meeting. he said that was just a colloquialism. doesn't mean anything. i love it means something. he doesn't seal to have a straight story in his brain. >> that's why a public hearing is so necessary. the american people deserve to hear what he said. the evolving accounts. and to judge in public under questioning from senators like

myself. i would welcome the opportunity as a former prosecutor to pose some of these questions and see where the consistent line of thought may be. if there is one. and ultimately, the president has to be held accountable. pause he is the one who is embroiled and involved in this issue. and the question is, what did he know and when did he know it in. >> he went through that whole bridgegate zming all these surrogates of his are going to jail but somehow he escaped it. it seems to me, although all stories are a bit different. here we have the president helping his son writing his explanation of the meeting. apparently drafting it for him. he benefits from the knowledge, his son would get some dirt. he went out and bragged about it. it seems one of these hand in glove. i won't be a christie case where he can say he didn't know. he knew about it from the moment he got proffer of the meeting.

his son shared with it him. and then he said i have to help the kid get out of and it i don't want my kid to go to jail. isn't it fair to say, the president is involved? >> that's why today's session was important. because it focused on the questions relating to the president. without going into what was the testimony, i think there's a need for fig in these gaps and information that were left today about going forward after the june 9 meeting. what kind of meetings may have taken place? what may have could that out of white house in the trump campaign. and these almost 20 meetings that occurred between trump campaign that's the and the russians. >> matt, give us a sense of this prosecutorial effort. what do they have? we know there was a meeting and it was basically organized to share some dirt.

we know that circumstantial evidence, the son shared that information with the father. the promise of getting some oppo on his point. we know that president helped write the explanation for what happened in the meeting. talk about both people and how exposed both of them are. the father and he the son. >> our understanding of donned jr.'s explanation for the clip you played with then candidate donald trump says eye give a speech. he says, i didn't tell him about the meeting. he didn't need me to give him that speech. that's just the way he talks. it is a little bit of a bravado, the showman. that's a recurring theme that we're hearing. we heard it with what he turned over the congress. oh, we'll embrace the russia

tie. that's just talk. overpuffiery or whatever. you are don't take it at face value. it is just talk. >> well, rod blagojevich is in prison for just talk. jennifer, give us a sense of the meeting today and what can you report? >> i think they were trying to do two things. of course they're trying to collect information and fill in the gaps. it sounds like that was only partially successful if it was successful at all. they're also now having a conversation, or taking testimony from donald j. for the first time which means he is, 1,0001 charges are a way to get a charge on someone if the underlying information doesn't pan out and doesn't lead to charges. so i think today was important. now they can use the statements

today, whether they were omissionses that can prove he knew things he didn't tell or he made affirmatively false statements. they may have a charge on him for the first time based on what happened in the hearing. >> who would make that motion? would it be someone on your committee, we believe one of our witnesses perjured himself? >> it could be someone on our committee. and it could be the fbi or the u.s. attorney for the district of include. when the law is broken, people can make complaints and charges can be brought and jennifer is right. 18 united states code 1001. it is the bread and butter xlarnlg is brought when people lie to federal prosecutors. >> would that be within the domain of bob mueller? >> it could be. it could be within bob mueller's domain. and certainly, i would think, although i haven't talked to bob

mueller about it and we've made every effort in our investigation, on the judiciary committee to make any could not fwli , conflict he has a number of those charges. >> and he'll have the transcript of today. >> he have the transcript for sure. >> thank you. up next, steve bannon is back. he says he's a street fighter and is vowing to stick up for trump. is he more dangerous now he's outside the white house? u please take out the trash? (sigh) ( ♪ ) dad: molly! trash! ( ♪ ) whoo! ( ♪ )

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i think pretty accurate. i'm a street fighter. >> you're more than that. >> i think i'm a street fighter of the by the way, i think that's why donald trump and i get along. donald trump is a great counter puncher. he is a fighter. he'll be his wing man outside the entire time. >> president trump fired steve bannon in august, actually, august 20th. not long ago. but according to the "washington post," the president's relationship with the fire brand has not ended. quote, the president continues to call business friends and outside advisers including former chief strategist steve bannon. and bannon slammed the

president's economic adviser gary cohn who criticized that response. >> my problem, and i told general kelly this, when you side with a man, you side with him. i was proud to come out and try to defend president trump. >> no objections? >> you can tell him, maybe do it a better way. if you're going to break, then resign. if you're going to break, resign. the stuff that was leaked out that week by certain members of the white house was unacceptable. if you find it unacceptable -- >> who are you talking about? >> gary cohn and some other people. if you don't like what he's doing and you don't agree with it, resign. >> so gary cohn should have resigned of the. >> absolutely. >> well, michael steele is the former chair of the republican national committee. i think journalists and politicians kidiffer.

my political brain says be a man, be a woman, don't say i want the sxa the honor and responsibility of serving in the white house but the minute i get near a phone, i'll trash the guy. i think this is where mr. bannon has a strong point to make. what is yours? journalists can't live with that. if you're a reporter, you want everyone talking out the back window. >> my reporting test me this fight between cohn and bannon, it is deeper than the response to shartsville and the president's leadership. it is about who will control the president's party and the white house. cohn and bannon were part of the two blocks battling. it will be the nationalists or the wall street conservative vision coming out of the national economic council. >> is trump going to survive the back and forth? if trump is still president in say, 2017, it's 2017 now. 2018, 2019.

as the years and months roll ahead, will he be more like bannon or gary cohn? >> he is almost a politician at a political grocery store. he is testing out a lot of different ideologies right now. he drifted with bannon for a while. now he is going to the left. talking with chuck schumer and house democrats. he is trying to find a way to be popular. he is not driven by ideology. he does have the instincts of bannon but more importantly, he wants to be seen as a popular national figure. and whatever ideology at the time pushes him in that direction, he'll go with it. >> do you know what i like? i think the democrats have got their brains figured out how to use they will. instead of fighting over statues about, a 45-55 split, they said let's go after the nationals crap now. and they're passing resolutions that will go to trump's desk where he'll to have sign in a

way the democrats could force him to. it seems that will force him to say, am i with bannon or with the american people? what do you think he'll do? will he sign it? >> i think he will sign it. >> bannon wouldn't. >> bannon wouldn't but there are some things that trump will do that will keep him on that popular track. it will help him in that vein. >> why do you say that? >> in terms of how he sees the popularity. it is not measured the same way you and i look at it. >> still a notch on hillary clinton. >> to be honest, if we were holding a national honest, he would probably win it. so we need to understand where the president sees himself right now. more to the point, listen to what steve bannon said about him. he is a pugilist, a fighter, i'm

still going to be his wing man. there is a sense in the white house that this relationship between these two is a powerful one. >> it is always great to hear from you. up next, a shady russian company bought thousands of dollars in facebook ads. guess whose side they were on? and some are suggesting it is the tip of the iceberg. we'll talk about this russian meddling that's getting proven and proven again. so being cool comes naturally. hmm. i can't decide if this place is swag or bling. it's pretzels. word. ladies, you know when you switch, you get my bomb-diggity discounts automatically. ♪ no duh, right? [ chuckles ] sir, you forgot -- keep it. you're gonna need it when i make it precipitate. what, what? what?

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roughly $100,000 in ads targeting voters with divisive political messages. last month, there was open speculation about the role

facebook played in spreading false news in the 2016 election. >> so the ability to manipulate these search engines and some of the social media platt forms is real and out there and we need information from the copies as well as we need to look into the activities of some of the trump digital campaign activities. >> well, for more, i'm joined by angus. lay this out for the average person. what went wrong here? what were the russians involved in putting ads in facebook to create trouble politically? apparently for the democrats? >> two paths being used that we know of. one is a good old ad. you get your facebook page that comes up and styles it says buy boots there ll bean. in this case, an ad came up and said hillary clinton wants to read your e-mails. something. we don't blank the content. facebook hasn't said that. but they have said that they were highly provocative, to sort

of get people upset in the early parts of the 2016 -- >> on the gender and sexual issues that do stir people's emotions. but then, even more insidious is the creation, we know these folks, in russia, they're getting good at this. create a fake identity so you have a comment from what suth a real person that says, hey, check out the d.c. leaks website and you will see some amazing stuff about hillary. with, d.c. leaks was set up by russia. and it was a source of a lot of the leaked e-mails. so this is a very insidious manipulation using social media like facebook and twitter. and i think what we've seen this week is probably just the beginning. >> how can someone, the president included, stay russians weren't involved in trying to mess with our elections sf. >> they were of the you can't say that. the evidence is absolutely

overwhelmi overwhelming. now whether or not the trump campaign cooperated or worked with the russians, we don't know that. house intelligence, mr. mueller, they're all looking at that. the underlying question which i think is really important that people are missing to some extent is the russians really tried to screw up our election. not only things like leaked e-mails, fake news and that kind of thing. but also by getting into state election systems. voter registrations. what worries me is this once a one off. they'll be back in 20 scene a18 2020. >> so you think there will be mass chaos. >> they can in this one of two directions or both at the same time. i think in 2016 they started out wanting to sow distrust. they wanted to undermine the system and they did a pretty good job of it.

>> then all the intelligence is that they decide in the some point, in 2016, they would help donald trump get elected. whether they liked him or did not like hillary. >> they were ahead of us. >> what we have to focus on is how do we prevent this from happening again? >> angus king is working on this. up next, a day after president trump left republicans gone smacked by striking a deal with democrats, he issued a tweet at the request of nancy pelosi. is trump willing to work democrats? plus, hurricane irma moves closer to florida. ut? ut? sure, just sign up online. then we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky websites. wow. that's cool. how much is it? oh, it's free if you have a discover card. i like free! yeah, we just want you to be in the know. ooh. hey! sushi. ugh. i smell it! you're making me...

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it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ let's deep dye into the forecast. these lines are spaghetti lines. these are our forecast models of the storm. this is saturday afternoon. the critical moment with that north wards turn. if it happens earlier, maybe we can get the miss. as of now, there's excellent agreement as we go throughout saturday morning, this is at 8:00 a.m. in the morning. each of these lines represents

where the center of the storm would be. look at miami. that's the highly populated corridor. then from there we take the storm possibly to the north. this can shift. as we go through time, we can get a little wiggle. we're still 48 hours away. this gets very in the weeds here. but this takes the storm. this is center line. straight up the corridor of florida. this white line is the american model. each of these gold lines, we tweak to it see what would happen. there's a chance we could miss. you notice most of these have a direct impact in florida and then send it north wards. and finally, our last weather map, we can see it as early as 8:00 a.m. in the keys. and through the upcoming

weekend, the landfall of hurricane irma.

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president trump campaigned as master of the art of deal. the president abandoned his own republican leaders to cut a deal with democrats to cut hurricane relief. republican leaders are said to be fuming and today trump softened his threat on the daca program. he said you have nothing to worry about. no action. he tweeted about it this morning. >> he called this morning and i said thanks for calling. this is what the people really need a reassurance from you, mr. president. and boom, boom, boom, the tweet appeared. >> let's bring in the roundtable.

let me talk about trump's moves here. was this a change-up in pitching where you throw a different pitch after throwing a bunch of fastballs? all of a sudden, he says, nancy, i'm doing it with you guys. >> i think she got with it the boom, boom, boom. >> donald trump, as a person close to him said, he lives life in 15-minute increments. with his back against the wall, the response to the daca rollback was really, really negative. he got a little love when he went to the gulf. he got a little positive feedback. with steve bannon out of the white house, why not do the one political move that he hasn't tried. he's basically stayed, everything that has happened to the guy, he's moved farther and farther to the right.

his base is shrinking. this was guy, in terms of cutting deals with people like pelosi and schumer. >> you think he was trying to smack his republican so-called colleagues a little bit there? >> of course he was. you're angry at your husband and say guess who called me, my ex-boyfriend. >> how did you get the female perspective on that? that's really -- probably true. but you can role play very well. >> very quickly. i've learned. but that's basically what it was. look who i can make friends. with you aren't supporting me. you don't treat me right. >> he lives in the moment. he needs get things moving. we're about to face irma and all kinds of damage. no one wants a fight going on. >> he has had a lot of struggles. he knows he needs wins and that's what this is. a good old-fashioned win. you say i solved a problem, we

brought people together and we got it. >> are we through with debt ceiling discussions? >> they're going to have to come back and have them again. could it fall apart. they have to vote and bills to have pass. >> now or december some. >> at both times. that may be the hardest lesson he would get in legislative office. >> how do you get reelected -- i assume that's still trump, in the back of his mind. i want a second term. that's how you win. you lose, you lost. how does he get reelected, he's one party, i want to dance occasion when i the democrats but i hate democrats. >> he doesn't have much of anybody except maybe the democratic party. if they're foolish enough -- >> they wouldn't do it to help him. they would do it fulfill their ideological -- >> there's still a decent

chance. they'll get a bad candidate. here's the thing. i don't think trump has still fully understood how politics works. i think he has the feel for crowds but not politics. i don't think he knows how to run as an incumbent. it is easy to run as an outsider. when you've been in for a year hour, do you prove you're different? >> is this just erratic behavior again? >> you can look at this. this accelerating train wreck that we've seen over the past seven and a half months as all negative. there's an alternative theory that is emerging. maybe it is in my own head. john kelly, the new chief of staff, they've torn everything down. it seems the president is intent on reinventing the wheel. maybe he is the guy learning. serving improvisational. he is doing in it plain sight. >> inning plain sight. apparently he picks up his

private phone and cause steve bannon. >> he sneaks into the side room. his little room over there and makes phone cause? >> like obama smoking a cigarette of the. >> i stand on the argument that it is ridiculous. we'll be back after this. haven't you ever wanted something more barry? watch your step. a pilot like you should be flying for the c.i.a. holy- shh... you are an airline pilot. that's how you support this family. this is gonna be good for us. based on an incredible true story... we need you to deliver stuff for us. just don't get caught. of c.i.a.'s biggest secret.

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we just got the word. a moderate republican from pennsylvania is quitting.

they're real compromisers, someone willing to work across the aisle. >> that's the key area of pennsylvania. this is fascinating. that's "hardball" for now. thank you for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight -- >> the largest hurricane they've ever seen coming out of atlantic of the. >> as the president waits for hi hurricane irma. >> what we've learned from donald trump's interview in the senate today. and what we know about his changing story. >> i don't think my sirens went up, or the antennas went up. >> then