water, i'm proud to stand with presidents for one america, one appeal. remember by this time next week, the cause will only be greater as we will no doubt be in the mid its of a massive relieve effort. good night from nbc news headquarters in new york. they are shutting down the nuclear plants now in florida in advance of the hurricane. turkey point and st. lucie are nuclear plants on the atlantic coast nuclear plants can be shut down safely but it's the sort of thing that has to be carefully planned and you need your backup generators to keep working even after you're shut down. you need lead time to be able to do it safely. florida power and light said

today they're not announcing exactly when they're setting these nuclear plants to go cold, but interestingly the energy department sort of let slip what the time line is going to be. the federal energy department let slip tonight that they think turkey point will be shut down tomorrow night and st. lucie 12 hours later. who knows when it's going to happen but they're planning a shutdown. for context, the turkey point nuclear plant was supposed to with stand 235-mile-per-hour winds according to its design. but one of the exhaust stacks at that nuclear plant actually cracked in half when hurricane andrew hit 25 years ago, even though andrew's winds were way below that 235 miles an hour threshold that that plant was supposed to safely take. that explains why there are some of the worries that people have about that particular part of the coastal infrastructure. as of tonight, irma is still a cat 5 hurricane. national hurricane center says

even though the max wind speeds may fluctuate up and down a little bit, you should expect irma to stay a category 4 or 5 storm for the next couple of days. the storm is now blamed for at least nine deaths across the caribbean. as well as the all but complete leveling of the island of barbuda, which the government says may no longer be habitable. as irma continues -- i mean the wind speed pictures of it are still just absolutely stunning. it's continuing its track toward densely populated south florida and starting to see over the course of today, local officials in florida basically searching for non four letter words that they can use to convey how strenuously they mean it when they say that people really need to get out now. the mayor of miami beach today told people that as far as he's concerned, he sees this as a nuclear hurricane. like nothing florida has seen

before. he's telling people who are resisting mandatory evacuation orders that the storm is big enough that even if the track changes, even if irma veers offshore, in his words it will still quote envelope us even if the track changes substantially. obviously officials are telling people in the path of the storm to get out, to get to higher ground. people are being told in no uncertain terms that they have to leave. but leaving right now is not necessarily easy depending on where you're starting from. gas shortages already. flights sold out. some roadways jammed. the logistical feasibility of moving yourself and your family out of harm's way is starting to become a real issue. there are worries a that that may become a serious factor in some increasingly large parts of florida. we're going to be covering this obviously throughout the course of the storm. tonight we're going to talk with

the mayor of ft. lauderdale. have a lit hit with the mayor in a moment. we're going to be getting live reports throughout the hour on the storm as it continues its churn through the caribbean. it's passing over turks and caicos right now. we're watching that tonight. in washington today the the big news was that the president's eldest son had too testify to congress about the trump-russia investigation and specifically about his own russia contact during the presidential campaign. don jr.'s discussions with the judiciary committee today lasted over five hours. it was held behind closed doors. we don't have footage to show you of him giving that testimony but we did get a copy of his formal opening statement so we know what he and his lawyers prepared for him to tell the committee before they started questioning him. we also know a few details of how it went. he was not asked to swear an oath before he testified.

but of course whether or not you're formally sworn in under oath you still have to tell the truth. we know a transcript was made of trump's testimony today but it will be up to the committee as to whether or not they ever release that transcript. hypothetically the transcript could also be released to the special counsel's office, to robert mueller's office depending on if he wanted to see it and depending on what could be worked out between the committee and robert mueller and donald trump jr.'s own lawyers. we also know that this might have been today the prelude to a second appearance by donald trump jr. at an open hearing, particularly if senators didn't like what they heard from him today. today donald trump jr. was questioned only by committee staff. senators on the committee were allowed to sit in and watch and listen but the senators themselves were not allowed to interrupt or ask their own questions. according to nbc news reporting today, these are the senators who bothered to sit in on donald trump jr.'s testimony today. richard blumenthal from connecticut, chris coons,

dick durbin sheldon white house from rhode island. we're told that senator al franken of minnesota stepped in but only for three minutes. we're told that utah senator orrin hatch came by for about five minutes. if you're doing the partisan math, that means there was only one republican senator there today for a total of five minutes, while the president's son testified for over five hours. as for the senators who did show up, we don't know exactly what they heard but we do know how one of those democratic senators responded to donald trump jr.'s testimony today. very shortly, about an hour after trump's testimony wrapped up, the office of delaware senator chris coons sent out this memo. see two interested parties from the office of senator chris coons. re, donald trump jr. testimony today. then it says summary. below is a statute to keep in

mind in regards to donald trump jr.'s testimony today and then they posted the entire u.s. federal statute that makes it a crime to lie to congress. and then this is a lot of things but subtle is not one of them. we don't know what senator coons was hinting donald trump may have lied about today. we called the ask the senator today and we haven't yet heard back from his office. but here's the next big shoe that dropped on this story today. the ap and cnn both reported today that one of the things that donald trump jr. told the senate is that he he doesn't recall anything about the white house or the president himself being involved in crafting the first statement that was written about why donald jr. went to a meeting with a whole bunch of russians last june at trump tower along with jared kushner and paul manafort. quote, donald trump jr. told senate judiciary staffers today that he did not recall the details of white house involvement in the

public response to the meeting. in 2016 with a russian lawyer. he told the committee he did not know much about the air force one meeting that allegedly led to the production of his statement. now, that mysterious top level meeting between the top of the trump campaign and russians connected to russian intelligence, we first learned about that from press reports while the president and basically everybody who works at the white house was in europe for the g20 meeting. i remember reporting at the time of the g20 that there was nobody left to answer the phone at the white house because they took freakin' everybody on that trip to europe. and then the washington post reported on air force one on the way home from that g20 trip that's when the president personally wrote the statement that was released in his son's name about what happened at that trump tower meeting with all of the russians. this is the statement that said it was a short introductory meeting. i asked jared and paul to stop

by. we primarily discussed a program about the adoption of russian children that was active and popular with american families years ago and was since ended by the russian government. that was the statement that was reportedly drafted on air force one by the president on the way home from the g20 summit after the news broke about the trump tower meeting. now that statement was seriously seriously misleading, even on its face. there is no program about the adoption of russian children. there isn't that. that doesn't exist. quite the opposite. putin cut off the ability of american to adopt russian kids as payback for us putting sanctions on russia. that's as close as you can get to the program that was active and popular with american families. even just on its face it's misleading. the other reason that statement was misleading is because donald

jr. soon released the e-mails that led up to that trump tower meeting where the subject line over and over again said nothing about adoptions. this was the subject line. russia, clinton, private and confidential. and the purpose of that meeting was laid out in comically blunt terms. good morning, the crown prosecutor of russia met with his father this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the trump campaign with official documents and information that would incriminate hillary and dealings with russia and be useful to your father. this is high level sensitive information but it is part of russia and its government's support for mr. trump. help along by aris and emim. so that was the trump tower meeting. this statement saying that trump tower meeting was a meeting of, what was it, meeting about the program about the adoption of russian children, the statement was just bull. and that false statement was put out in the name of donald trump

jr. but the washington post later reported that the statement was dictated by the president himself. and then the white house confirmed the president's involvement in that statement saying, the president weighed in as any father would. well, now, here's the rub, before donald trump jr. was even done testifying to the senate today, cnn broke the news that the special counsel robert mueller is now seeking interviews with white house staff. white house staff specifically who were aboard air force one when the initial misleading statement about the trump tower meeting was crafted. mueller reportedly wants to know how the statement on board air force one was put together, whether information was intentionally left out and who was involved. mueller's questions could go to the issue of intent and possibly efforts to conceal information during an obstruction of justice investigation. mueller considers some of the aides on board air force one who helped craft the statement to be witnesses.

so we know because of the e-mails that donald trump jr. released about the trump tower meeting. we know that the meeting was intended to try to get dirt on hillary clinton from the russian government to use against her in the presidential campaign. that's what we know from the e-mails that set up the meeting. that was actually corroborated in the opening statement that donald trump jr. made to the senate today under pain of imprisonment if he lied. that was the purpose of the meeting, to get dirt on hillary clinton from the russian government. that is no longer a controversial assertion. that is a given. that's attested to. proven by the written documentation they put out and attested to by the statement that donald trump jr. made today made under pain of imprisonment. it was to get dirt on clinton from the russians. putting out a statement saying that the meeting was about something else entirely, well that's obviously mendacious, right, but is it criminal?

are you in trouble if you put out a statement saying that meeting was about something it totally wasn't about? i mean, it seems clear from the conceded facts that the president was personally involved in concocting a statement about that meeting that attempted to disguise the true nature and purpose of the trump tower meeting. to make it seem like something other than his campaign seeking russian government assistance for their efforts against hillary clinton in the presidential campaign. if that statement, that effort to cover up the purpose of that meeting is now the subject for the special counsel's inquiry, and he's going to interview white house staff who may have witnessed that act, a, that's really bad news for the president. and b, that means the special counsel has a verify itable papa platter if that's the stuff he's running to ground. if that's what he's investigating, efforts to

mislead the public about contacts with russians? there's a lot to choose from if that's what the special counsel is going to be running to ground. if there's potential criminality. for people who made these misstatements. there are a lot of misleading the public, creating a false pretex type statements that have been made about russia by members of the trump campaign and the trump administration. a lot of them. just take the people in the trump campaign and the trump administration who insisted publicly that there had been no contacts between the trump campaign and russians during the presidential contest. and we now know there were. i mean, paul manafort said that publicly. kellyanne conway said that publicly, hope hicks, donald trump junior said that publicly, attorney general jeff sessions said that publicly vice president mike pence said that publicly. i mean, you know what, just take pence alone here. mike pence did bluntly assert multiple times that there had

been no contacts between the trump campaign and russians during the campaign. that was false. mike pence blunt asserted that trump national security adviser mike flynn had never talked to the russians about sanctions. that was false. mike pence bluntly asserted that he had no idea mike flynn had foreign business ties, even though pence was running the transition when the transition was notified multiple times in writing and in person by flynn's lawyers that yeah, flynn had foreign business ties. mike pence bluntly asserted that the president fired fbi director james comey because the president got a recommendation to do so from the justice department. we now know that vice president pence received a letter from the president outlining exactly why he wanted to fire james comey a day before the justice department even wrote that recommendation. and that's literally just the stuff we know about the vice president in terms of the lies that we know he has told specifically about russia and that's just the ones i can come

up with off of the top of my head. give me a few days and i can give you quite a list. if the cnn report today is right -- i know there's a lot going on right now and the testimony of the president's son is itself just an incredible special it goes the speck call in the history of presidential scandal. and this is competing with a lot of other really important national news in the country right now. but this is potentially a very big deal. if this cnn report today is right and the special counsel who has the ability to prosecute crimes, right? if the special counsel is now investigating administration officials for making misleading statements about tie to russia, well, yeah, that donald trump sr. and junior statement lying about the purpose of the trump tour meeting with all the tower. russians that's a good place to start. but if the special counsel sees it fit to chase down people in the administration or come pain who created false pretext or who

lied about contexts with russia or told tall tale to the public to disguise or distract from behavior toward russians. if that's what he's investigating, that investigatory road is going to be a long one. and a lot of people in the administration up to and including the white house communication staff, the sr. adviser to the president and the vice president himself and the president's family members, they're all going to need good lawyers if robert mueller is going to start nailing people for that. and just to underscore the seriousness of this, let me close with one more point. to underscore of the seriousness of what they're facing right now. just keep this in mind. donald trump's eldest son and namesake, donald trump jr. still today was disclosing new contacts between the trump campaign and the russians that happened during the campaign. still today we got new stuff. today donald trump jr., according to the statement that he made to the judiciary

committee, today he revealed three new previously undisclosed comments that he had with emin. he is described in the e-mails setting up the meeting as one of two people who are helping along russia and its government support for mr. trump in his presidential campaign against hillary clinton. you had three phone calls with him that you never disclosed before today? even today this key figure from the the trump campaign, trump's eldest son is disclosing three new calls with that person who he knew and was told explicitly was helping out the russian government in their efforts to help trump win the election. today we're still getting those new disclosures. what else have they still not given if they're still disclosing new contacts with the russian government today? as for trump jr., he told the judiciary committee today he doesn't recall the content of any of those calls but they will find them in his phone records.

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this was august 23rd, 1992. >> more than a million people from the key to west palm beach have been told to evacuate the florida coast. many people moved quickly. but accidents and the sheer number of those on the road clogged some highways and bridges early in the day. gasoline lines are long. >> constant steadily flow. lines around the corner. >> that was 1992, nightly news right before hurricane andrew hit florida as a category 5 storm. again 25 years ago. people got gridlocked as they tried to get out before the storm hit. now another even bigger storm is baring down on florida. florida's governor is warning the storm off of the coast right you, hurricane irma is bigger, faster and stronger than andrew

ever was. irma is still a cat 5 storm on its current track, miami landfall is looking like early sunday morning. florida has now ordered all schools close. they're expanding evacuation orders. but the decision to evacuate and the logistics about evacuating can be complicated. right before huck harvey the local officials in texas decided not to evacuate houston and that stranded people in a city known to susceptible to flooding in a case that ended up being 40 and 50 inches of rain. houston's decision not to order evacuations had serious consequences and it was criticized but it was an informed decision. it was informed 12 years early when hurricane rita hit in 2005 in this case officials did order evacuations and that was its own chaos. there was a 24-hour long traffic jam. more than 100 people died

evacuating. houston ahead of hurricane rita. almost as many people died trying to get out as in the storm itself. these are hard decisions. tonight florida is trying to find its own way through the various dangers posed by this gigantic storm florida officials have been blunt in in ordering people out and to higher ground. but getting to where you want to go is not necessarily a picnic. in the florida keys there's only one way out, route 1. the lane taking you off of the island has been gridlocked. the major inter states and i-95, i-75, at times they've resembled parking lots the glowing red means those are places where cars aren't going anywhere. you can't leave if you can't fill your tank. this is a map of the gas stations around miami up to boca raton. ever black dot is a gas station that has no power. every red dot is a gas station that has no gas.

can't fill up the tank if gas station has no gas. to help alleviate that particular part of the problem, florida has been issuing police escorts for gas truck to whisk them through traffic getting them to the gas station to get the gas in so the residents can fuel up and get out. it's tough at the airports where people have been looking to fly out. flocking to the airports trying to get a ticket to anywhere, whether they've got a ticket in their hand to go anywhere at all or not, whether there's anyone to sell them once they get there. joining us now were jack sieler the march of fort lauderdale florida thanks for joining us tonight. >> thank you very having me. >> can you tell us how are you looking ahead to the next 48 to 72 hours in terms of the challenges faced by keeping people safe and also thinking about the logistical complications of evacuation plans? >> well, first of all, the evacuation issue, we have issued

evacuation orders, broward county issued evacuation orders for u.s. 1 east which is a lot of the barrier island, a lot of our low lying areas. soon evacuation order has been issued for eastern broward county, u.s. 1 and then toward the ocean. so we are trying to make sure people comply with that. we're encouraging people to comply with that. and even tonight i was out driving around. we're trying to keep people off of the barrier island. we have the police patrolling, reminding people that they shouldn't be on the barrier island and they need to make arrangements to be elsewhere. that's the first priority. secondly in terms of preparing the community, we started three, four days ago. you've been covering this storm. you've been talking about it. this is one massive storm. i've been in florida all of my life. my kids are six generation floridians and i don't recall a storm ever having this size, this magnitude, just, it's just one of the biggest baddest

storms i've ever seen and we're making sure our neighbors, our citizens understand the damage it can do. >> in terms of the vulnerability of your city of ft. lauderdale, you think about the potential threats here when you think about obviously the rainfall totals projected, the wind possibilities, the storm surge that's been projected. what is the thing that you think is capable of doing the most damage? what is worrying you the most? >> well, rachel, that's a great question. you talk about the rain. we just went through this with texas and that's been a huge rain factor, tremendous tragedy out in texas and our hearts are with them. but i'm more concerned about the storm surge here. i'm concerned about the fact that we are a low lying area, a coastal community, and the storm surge could be significant. you know, you're looking at an east wind which will push water combined with potentially a high tide, combined with the huge amount of water that's just moving ahead of the storm.

that is what scares me the most as the mayor of ft. lauderdale, the potential to have a storm surge that is going to overwhelm these low lying area that's going to create a flood situation. i don't think we'll have the long term drainage issues that you've seen in texas but the moving water can cause a lot of damage and that causes me to lose a little bit of sleep at night because we've dealing with seasonal high tides, rising sea level and climate change. ft. lauderdale has been a leading city on that nationally. but there's not much we can do when it's pushed ahead of a huge storm like that. >> what whether you can do about it is get people to safer ground with all of the challenges that entails. mayor of ft. lauderdale, florida, the whole country is pulling for you. the next few days is critical in terms of saving lives. good luck, sir. >> thank you for keeping this issue on the forefront. appreciate you having me on tonight. >> stay in touch with us over

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the chancellor of germany is afraid of dogs. angela merkel was bitten once decades ago and she's afraid of dogs. naturally when it came time for her to meet the leader of russia, vladimir putin did some personal research on her and decided he would bring a friend to their meeting.

putin literally unleashed his very large black lab to meet angela merkel when she went to russia in 2007. the dog walked up to chancellor merkel, gave her a big sniff. you can see by the look on her face that this display was having the desired effect on her as far as putin was concerned. he sat there and watched the whole thing happened, twirl his cartoon mustache. this is putin's thing, right. this is kind of the level of which he like to operate with other countries. likes to rattle them. lets them though he knows what you're afraid of. after the whole dog thing, she told the press he thinks putin does things like that to prof he's a man. which seems insightful. but today we learned that hillary clinton agrees with angela merkel on that. we've just got this excerpt from the audio of hillary clinton's

new book, exclusive to us, this is the first time it's been out there. check this out. >> president obama once compared vladimir putin to a bored kid at the back of the classroom. he's got that kind of slouch, obama said. when i sat with putin in meetings, he looked more like one of those guys on the subway who imperiously spreads their legs wide encroaching on everyone else's space, as if to say i take what i want and i have so little respect for you that i'm going to act as if i'm lounging at home in my bathrobe. they call it man spreading. that was putin. putin has emerged in the popular imagination as an archvillain straight out of a james bond movie. yet he's also perennially misunderstood and underestimated. george w. bush famously said

that after looking putin in the eye he found him very straightforward and trustworthy and was able to get a sense of his soul. my somewhat tongue and cheek response was he was a kgb agent. by definition, he doesn't have a soul. i don't think vladimir appreciated that one. our relationship has been sour for a long time. putin doesn't respect women and despises anyone who stands up to him. so i'm a double problem. after i criticized one of his policies, he told the press, it's better not to argue with women. but went on to call me weak. maybe weakness is not the worst quality for a woman, he joked. hilarious. >> an excerpt from hillary clinton's new book due out next week that's driving everybody crazy. it's called "what happened." we got that clip from her audio book exclusively tonight. you can head over to maddow.com

maddow blog.com and take another listen. we're creeping up on one year since the presidential election. we haven't heard much from hillary clinton since the election besides what's trickling out from this new book that as i said is driving everybody nuts. next week we're going to get a chance to get some of at least my questions answered because hillary clinton is going to be here live on the show a week from tonight. secretary clinton decided to do one of her first interviews with us live in the studio thursday of next week. i'm already studying. we'll be right back.

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live claritin clear. so it's pretty well trod ground, even before this week, that russia used social media to help influence the presidential election last year. now we've got a big new announcement from facebook yesterday saying they now admit that yes, they did sell thousands of dollars of political ads to what they now acknowledge was fake accounts of russian origin during the campaign. and a couple of questions arise from this new admission by facebook. one, why did they insist for a months month that this wasn't true. facebook insisted for months that there was no evidence that any russian sources had been buying ads on facebook to try to influence the campaign, facebook now admits that yeah, that was happening. but why did they give those months of false denials. so that remains interesting, particularly if facebook is going to be an important place that we need to sort of examine

as a potential crime scene for russian collusion with the trump campaign in terms of that attack. why didn't facebook come clean about this sooner. wouldn't have been the hardest thing in the world for them to figure out particularly since they were ready to make such insistent denials when the denials turned out to be false. so the facebook question arises out of the new admission. so the -- the other question is how the investigation proceeds. it's illegal to send foreign money to affect a foreign election. now facebook is admitting there is money being used. how does that change the investigation in terms of the russia attack on our election and the collusion by american to help them with it. how does that change the investigation into that as potentially a criminal matter. those two questions, the facebook issue, the criminal investigation issue, those are now newly on our pa plate because of what facebook just admitted.

but then there's the broader thing. in terms of just us americans understanding what happened to our country during the last presidential election. and what we've learned at the broad level about that is just a whole lot more insight that we didn't have before into what the russians did and how they did it, what they needed to happen in order to succeed, in order to successfully impact the results of the election. well today the "the new york times" added to that understanding significantly. a fascinating report from the "the new york times" about how suspected russian operators used twitter and facebook not only to promote anti--clinton stuff but to disseminate the material that russians had hacked from the clinton campaign and the democratic party. how the russians managed to point people to the hacked material on these obscure websites, using social media accounts that they invented and then manipulated just for that

purpose. "the new york times" for example tracked down one facebook account from a user that appeared to be named melvin riddic of pennsylvania. harrisburg. a friendly looking american with a backward baseball cap and a young daughter who in june posted on facebook a link to a brand-new web side called dc leaks. what he posted was these guys show hidden truth about hillary clinton. visit d.c. leaks website. it's really interesting. this supposed person was one of the very very first people to post anything online about this hacked material in d.c. leaks that until that point nobody knew anything about. what's amazing about his presence on the importance of the d.c. leaks stuff is he doesn't appear to be a real person at all. the reddic profile lists indiana university of pennsylvania, neither has a record of his appearance. his posts were never personal,

just news articles reflecting a pro-russian world view. no melvin red dip his photos seem to be borrowed from an unsuspecting bra zale brazilian. these accounts were found by facebook to be fake and removed from facebook but not before they played this very seeable traceable role in inflicting damage on hillary clinton's presidential chances. and now that we can sort of, i guess, sort of disentangle that, now that you can go back and follow that trail, it makes tons of sense when you see it now all lined up months after the election. the crazy thing is that there were people who saw it happening way way way before anybody ever voted and that story is magic. that's next. a fire truck. even a marching band. and if i can get comfortable talking about this kiester, then you can get comfortable using preparation h.

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so it was a three-pronged attack. there was the attack on our election infrastructure, voting databases and systems. we don't know what happened there, what those hacking attacks were all about. second prong was the hacking of the democratic party and the clinton campaign, stealing their e-mails and documents and posting them all over the internet. before the election the third prong was the russians targeting us, the american public opinion. there was immediate operations rt and sputnik spreading false hoods and negative hillary clinton stuff. but it was also social media. the russians formed a greek

chorus online that existed to amplify negative information about hillary clinton and in particular to amplify and direct people to that stolen information, the hacked stuff that russia obtained in the second prong of their attack when they went after the dnc and the clinton campaign they invented fake personalities to drive interest in the hacked material so people would see the stolen stuff. a reporting about that effort including from the "the new york times" today, we have a better understanding of how the russians needed a big labor intensive covert operation on social media basically in order to sell the stolen hacked materials from the democratic party and the clinton campaign to get people interested in it, to weaponize that hacked material by spreading it around and turning it back to the americans as a way to try to affect the election. well the "the new york times" today reports on the work of researchers at a cybersecurity firm named fire eye.

when fire eye looked at what was happening on social media they quote discovered long lists of accounts that sent out identical messages within seconds or minutes of one another, firing in alphabetical

and i would check in it once in a while still. a lot of them have turned into conservative accounts, like conservatives. they're all like tweeting about donald trump and stuff. >> like american conservatives. >> yeah. >> who's paying for that. >> i don't know. i feel like maybe it's some kind of really opaque strategy of, like, electing donald trump to undermine the u.s. or something. >> wouldn't that be hilarious? josh marshal at talking points memo surfaced that podcast. december 2015, that reporter was noticing and reporting that the same trolls who had been hired

to given slurs had turned into american conservatives that were supporting donald trump. weird, right? so this great new reporting we have about how russia did what it did, the way it matches up with the earlier reporting, we see how russia developed the social media capacity. how do we find out if they had help? what can we use from that analysis to figure out not just the capacity that russia developed, but whether or not they needed american help to harness it to do what they did to us last year. how can we tell? where do we look? from the cybersecurity firm fire eye who had a team examining these. thank you for joining us. >> is it fair to say that the russian capacity in this regard did develop not just for this eelection but over a period of years in a way that was

observable for people that were looking for it. >> absolutely we've been monitoring this for a long time. really the u.s. elections were one episode of this type of behavior that we've seen targeting all sorts of political areas around the world. certainly what we've seen is that this seems to be a lot of experimentation and development of the kpap iblts. they seem to be getting better, as well. >> when they get better, does that mean they get more invisible because they seem more real, they seem less foreign and less mechanic andized? >> exactly. one of the biggest difficults in this work is trying to identify whether a particular account is a american citizen, for example, engaging in protected political speech, or a foreign impossible ter that is attempting to manipulate audiences. and they are becoming tougher and tougher to actually

identify. >> given what you and your firm have done to study these groups, how you've seen them evolve and they're effectiveness, what do you think about the prospects for the effort of trying to figure out if they had help f-they had american con fed writs who either opened the gate for them or directed them in some way that would help maximize the effect that had would have on trump's election prospects, what do you think of the prospects of figuring that out. >> i'm not sure. i'm a cyber thread intelligence, i'm on how this stuff is or orchestrated. we have evidence that these attempts are being made. >> what do you mean. >> to target audiences in different ways, promote divisions and discord, in the case of the election it was the

elect tore it. >> does it help to have con fed writs? >> it could do. definitely what we've been seeing lot of russia's attempts appear to be trying to seed particular material into receptive audiences that might again organically disseminate it and amplify it. >> key point. thank you for joining us tonight. i really appreciate you taking the time to be here. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. re a pilot like you should be serving your country. re you're c.i.a.? based on an incredible true story... we're sending you to columbia. of the c.i.a.'s biggest secret. i have helped build the biggest drug cartel this world has ever seen. tom cruise. all this is legal? if you're doin' it for the good guys. [ police sirens ] no mas. no mas. [ laughter ] [ gun shot ] woo! we recognize the dangers involved here. no you don't. shoot the gringo. american made. rated r. if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's,

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