>> programming on an electronic computer. >> well some day this new iphone x could seem as primitive as the old flip phones. that does it for our show. see you back tomorrow 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" starts now. the web titans, let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews. in washington there with new developments tonight in the russian investigation. but first anupdate on the devastation and cleanup of hurricane irma. the death toll in florida has climbed to 12. the devastation and the florida keys is not fully known as access to all but the closest islands remains closed. officials say a quarter of the

homes in the keys are destroyed. we'll have an update in a minute. now to the russian probe with and a body of evidence that's growing by the week, the investigation is going to cast a net over the president's advisers and associates. there's a new sign that the probe is honing in on the trump campaign for the search of potential evidence with russian. the daily beast reports today the trump campaign has began handing document over to bob mueller, a coop collusion that the probe may not be all that near. t it's still soon for mueller to reveal any findings, ann apple balm makes the case that substantial evidence with his campaign is already available and direct evidence is getting very very close. amid multiple new reports about the astounding reach of the russian campaign on social media, they raise cue questions that confront mueller.

how did the russians behind the fake american accounts know which americans would be most excited to read about conspiracy theories on facebook. how did trump use the same. there's new evidence that leaders in russia acknowledge and take pride in their campaign to subvert the election. a member of the russian parliament boasted on live tv that russian intelligence was more powerful than american intelligence in this case. according to the hill he said that intelligence missed it when russian intelligence stole the president of the united states. i'm joined now by congressman eric swalwell and anne apple balm, the columnist with the washington post and betsy woodruff, a reporter with the daily beast. take a couple of minutes. i'm impressed with your column because it connects a lot of

dots, al lot of points of light that puts it as an enveloping curtain that does skap chcaptur of the argument to show collusion between washington and moscow. >> yeah. well i think it's fair to say that we now can see what a lot of the motives were on both sides. we know that it wasn't just disruption in the u.s. there were groups of russian oligarchs, businessmen who wanted to see sanctions overturned in the united states and they sent a lawyer to discuss that. that was the lawyer who came to discuss with paul manafort and jared kushner and don jr. a few months ago. we know the motives to have trump campaign. we know that trump was actually negotiating to building a trump tower in moscow during the primaries and well into the campaign. and i think with the latest social media evidence that you

referred to, we now have much more concrete conversation of something that i saw last summer and found mystifying, which is why was the trump campaign using the same kinds of language and the same kinds of conspiracies, conspiracy theories that i could see on russian media. everything from obama founded isis to google search engine is helping hillary to hillary will start world war iii. these are the kinds of things you could see on russian media, on sputnik, on rt, a russian television station and you could see it on russian language media too. and now we know there were actually fake websites owned by or founded by russians which were propagating those ideas and which were also buying ads on facebook to promote them. there's an example that came up in some of the evidence that was revealed. for example, a website called

secured borders which was very focused on idaho, had 133,000 followers, trying to organize anti-imfrant protests in idaho. this was a russian website using american language trying to involve itself in american politics in a very concrete way. now the question is how did russians know to target idaho? how did they know which accounts to look for? and that's i think the question that the mueller campaign -- the mueller investigation needs to explore now. >> what about spotters? i mean i agree with you, it makes sense that they must have known how to embarrass the dnc by putting out all of that hacked material. they knew how to embarrass podesta and we know those interesting very little land mines that went off. they knew where to go to break up the land mine and ignite them. and the same thing with the ads. they knew where to run the ads

with the most impact. what always amazing me, how rt can hire some american to do something. there's a lot of free floating american people out there that will go to work with rt. and sputnik as well. how do we know that they're trump people that are the american spotters? >> we don't know that yet. but it is fascinating how info wars and breitbart and rt and sputnik were all saying many of the same things at the same time and trump was repeating them. >> let me go to right now -- what do you make of this now. >> it's an important development particularly on the front of what these russian actors were doing, not just to push information that was fake but actually to push americans to take action during the campaign. daily beast has reported extensively on this. >> the rallies. >> yes. >> did the supporters show up when they were told to? >> in idaho there was a rally

that americans attended that russian actors had been pushing on. that's an extraordinary fact. >> and they used facebook methodolo methodology? >> and facebook confirmed to us that secured borders paid for ads that they used for that campaign. facebook knows it happened and it's fascinating. >> congressman, i think this piece of information keep adding more and more information but i am impressed with what's going on with douma. when i heard recently that there was a high school over in communist poland, i said maybe they knew something about spotting that we weren't sure of. so in this case you've got them bragging about how they screwed with our election. are your republican colleagues as in the know as the russian douma members are, do nay know what's going on or are they still denying it? >> well first, we just need to

president -- >> like nunez, i don't know what he's up to. he does the midnight ride of paul revere. shows up at the eisenhower building, grabs some stuff and shows up at dawn in the west wing saying i got some hot stuff. he got it from the same guy who sends a staff guy over to work on your committee. what are these characters working at the white house has been dumped on your majority staff there. what do you make of that? >> yeah. >> do you think that's fair ball? >> maybe because the russian government official said that the president will finally accept it. on our committee i have not seen the acceptance that russia interfered with our election and we have a responsibility to do something about it. and when you look at the eagerness and willingness of the trump campaign to work with the russians, we have more smoking guns than bonnie and clyde. we have the evidence that they were willing to work with the russians. the question is did it materialize to a working relationship. nothing sharpens the knives of

the russians more for a future attack than disunity among our investigation. nothing will strengthen our shield in a future attack than having a report that understands russia, identifies who was responsible and making reforms so it never happens again. we don't have that. >> are you confident that the house intelligence committee is going to break this case? >> it's like watching your favorite football team make a play and then you have a sack. that's what the destructive behavior is. we brought in a lot of witnesses in the last few weeks, a lot more this month. i hope we get there. we need more yards than we use and so far that means trump and the chairman stand out of the way. >> you make it sound like it's mistakes. i get the feeling that your chairman is hiring some trumpster from the white house to help quash this investigation. that's what it looks like. is that what's going on here?

nun nunez, is he working for the inside, for the defense here in this case? >> he's being okay struck tif. i don't know what his motives are. but it keeps us from being able to do our job. >> what do you think his motives are? >> he was on the transition team and i hope -- he left the transition team to lead the intelligence committee. and right now by having any staffer affiliated with the trump white house, that threatens our independence. i hope the staffer can separate was prior work with the white house. but our job is to report to the american people what we're doing to make sure that doesn't happen again. >> and what do you think it is, betsy? i don't think i see a lot of confidence. i see a lot of questions and hope that somehow these people who work for trump are now working for the committee and nunez working for trump is going to turn around and prosecute. >> there's obviously already significant squept schism about

nun nunez's committee. >> he's the conduction that we have. our hope lies in a trumpster to get trump? i mean that's a pretty thin hope. >> i would point out this is why bob mueller's special counsel probe is so important because there aren't any alumnis of the trump transition team are working on it. the white house claims that they're cooperating with muller's probe and thaf ear turning over documents in the process of producing more information for mueller. and it's so important that mueller has his own investigation. >> i agree with you on that. i have a lot more faith in mueller than i do on the hill. trump also praised wikileaks, the website that served as a con dunt for russian hacked material, discussing the substance of the material of collusion. hillary clinton said trump mentioned wikileaks 160 times just in october last year before the election. she asked why. why is he pumping up the

importance of wikileaks which is working with the russians. let's take a look at some of those examples. >> by the way, did you see another one, another one came in today. this wikileaks is like a treasure trove. this wikileaks is unbelievable. what we've learned about her and her people. we love wikileaks. bow th boy they are really -- wikileaks. boy that wikileaks has done a job on her, hasn't it? i tell you, this wikileaks stuff is unbelievable. it tells you the inner heart. you got to read it. now this just came out, this just came out, wikileaks, i love wikileaks. >> you know, i've got to go back to anne apple balm putting this together. you have a great ability as a columnist to do that. put together the fact that you have trump as a candidate basically trying to seduce wikileaks, just whooing them on

television, saying how great they are, helping with the hacking of the democratic national committee and all of the rest basically saying i wish somebody on the russian side would give me some of the hillary e-mail stuff. he was openly not just flirting but attempting to so deuce the russians into helping him as they were helping him. >> let's remember what wikileaks did. wikileaks leaked on enormous amount of information stolen by russian hackers. you mentioned a few minutes ago that russians bragging about this sort of stuff. actually putin has made a couple of references. he said something about well, there may have been some patriotic hackers who helped us out, wink wink. they've more of less conceded that these were russians who hacked it, who handed it to wikileaks and it was wikileaks who leaked it. yes, that was an open piece of clack rati collaboration. it's worth remembering that this is something that the russians knew about.

they've done it before. they've used leaked material before to interrupt others election campaigns, they've used tapes. they like using secret information because they've understood something psychologically important. people will become fascinated by any secret information, any leaks. and let's face it most of the stuff that came from hillary clinton's campaign was ba null. it was garbage that anybody sends anybody during a campaign. but it was created into a million con searcy theories, spun into pizzagate. this is something the russians know how to do. >> i go to that pizza joint quite a bit with my family. that was one bogus story. congratulations on your awards and you deserve it again for tonight. as always, great to have you on. coming up, new reporting that trump's legal team debated whether or not the president's

son-in-law, you know, jared kushner, nepotism working here, should step down. they're wising up to the fact that he's a problem because his connections to russia made his legally vulnerable. they tried to get rid of him. trumpster says no, that's now nepotism works. plus, what happened, hillary clinton's book is out today. it's a question mark, "what happened" about why she lost the 2016 election and she wants to know why she's a lightning rod. this is the human question she's asking. why do these millions of people not like me. we're going to talk about that, what she wrote. . >> what do you make of the talk that president trump is pivoting from the republican to the democrats to announce something about coalition of some democrats and a lot of republicans on tax reform, tax cutting for the rich. he is going to keep playing the field? the hardball tackles that question. you're going to like this if you question trump.

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rick scott said it would be a road to recovery. even the city of jacksonville saw record flooding. the result of the storm surge and torrential rain. and in the caribbean the devastation is wide spread with the coast guard and the navy bringing much needed supplies to the virgin islands and the florida keys. for more on the storm i'm joined with gaddy schwartz.

>> reporter: it packed wind so strong that it lifted this mobile home up over the fence smashing it right here on the ground and neighbors around here talk of seeing tornadoes as the hurricane's eye passed. you can see hurricane irma's paths of destruction stretching all throughout the florida keys. tonight in some parts of the florida keys what was once a paradise now completely destroyed. >> i couldn't see 8 feet away. it was such a white out of water. >> reporter: in one family's home the clock stopped around 1:00, just hour after hurricane irma made landfall. >> every door is gone, the roof is gone. >> reporter: mobile homes tossed over fences and demolished. some homes ripped off of the foundation while other homes completely flattened. many of the neighbors are ghost towns while those who braved the storm are checking on the damage. so

some. >> we need water, food, we need gas. >> reporter: and in this area, broken boats litter the roads and the shores. >> it's not going to be any tourism down here for quite some time which is going to make life tough. no way to make a living. >> reporter: irma's impacts are cripples much of the southeast. in jacksonville it could take a week for the flood water to recede. today the mayor pleased first responders the for rescuing people from the rising waters. >> what i saw on the ground is nothing short of the definition of what humanity should be about. >> reporter: streets in charleston still flooded and in georgia at least two people were killed from falling trees. but there are some hopeful signs that normalcy is returning. the miami and ft. lauderdale airports reopened today. >> i got free flights and so whichever one is going to be on time and that's actually going to come through, i hope to be on. >> reporter: and in miami beach

bumper to bumper traffic as residents were allowed to return home for the first time. the road to recovery may be the longest here in the florida keys, but those who live here say they're ready to rebuild. >> we're going to come back strong. everybody that lives here in this community. we will survive. we will survive this. >> reporter: gaddy schwartz, nbc news. >> thank you. for more on the recovery i'm joined now by alice hill, former special assistant to president obama. once the water recedes, we've learned this from katrina and sandy, it's hell to pay. >> this is a long road to recovery. we have debris removal. we have people who need to find ways to get to work. we have homeless. we have very ill people who have lacked medical care. this will be a difficult task for everyone. it will require all of the community to pitch in. >> let's talk about housing. people have one house, most people, they live in the house and once the water goes back

they think can go back to their house. what happens? >> i think there will be nasty surprises prarly if the water enters the basement and goes above the first floor. the house may be a total loss. >> that's because of mold? >> mold and structural damage. and sometimes we ask people to fill in their basements and raise the structures. that's not usually very popular. so we see that there's just enormous amounts of damage. roofs are damages. not safe to live in and people will go home and there will be a tag on it saying they can't come in. >> now we have a bipartisan belief that states rights isn't going to answer this question. it's a federal and national problem. is it your experience that when people have disaster like this they're ready to take the money from washington? >> that's our experience. and unfortunately there's als often an expectation that there will be money from washington which means we don't see as much preparedness or mitigation of

risk in advance of the event. if we did better at building higher, building more soundly, we could save ourselves so much money in terms of the recovery. but that's not the paradigm that we currently follow in the united states. >> people have histories with the places, like the ninth ward in new orleans. they like to live there. how do you get people to go -- some people live in trailer parks. you're not going to have a strong trailer park. these are mobile housing. >> well we actually can have strong mobile homes and we've learned from prior events that our mobile homes can collapse very easily. so we do require stricter, stronger mobile homes. but you're absolutely right. people want to rebuild exactly where they've lived, their families are there and that's a huge challenge when it's too dangerous to live there anymore. >> and the weather could be pretty nice in some of the more dangerous areas. we'll be back after this. helping keep shoppers safe.

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welcome back to "hardball" in an interview of susan paige with usa today, hillary clinton believes that trump associates help russia meddle in the 2016 election. clinton says there's no doubt in my mind that the trump campaign and other associates have worked really hard to hide their connections with russians. asked point blank whether she thinks trump's associates colluded with russia, clinton says i'm convinced of it. this comes as juared kushner comes under renewed scrutiny. "the wall street journal" reports that early this summer some of trump's legal team concluded that kushner should step down from his white house job, among their concerns was that mr. kushner was the adviser close to the president who had the most dealings with russian people during the campaign and transition, some of which are being currently examined. however "the wall street journal" notes that trump

attorney john dodd never agreed that cukushner should go. ty cobb called the story faels. in the meantime there are questions about kushner's role in the firing of former fbi director james comey. here's steve bannon. >> it's been reported that jared kushner was in favor of firing james comey. is that correct?? >> you guys have -- you will have to find that out through the media or the investigation. i don't know. >> for sure i'm joined by erica of "the wall street journal" who coauthored that reporting on jared kushner and susan paige. i want to start with susan. hillary clinton when you look deeply into her eyes like what was it, bush w. looked into putin's eyes, i'm just kidding, did you get a sense she real lie believes there was collusion. she's a ralawyer, a smart lawye >> she believes it was

collusion. she doesn't think the case is made that it's made to a legal standard but she says there are too many coincidences to believe that there wasn't collusion. and she said some of the evidence has come out since she wrote the book, since she had to send in the book to be printed. the tash geting of facebook, the weaponizing of e-mails. these are the things that indicate that there was coordination with trump associates. >> to me it goes beyond questions of logan act or taking a gift of kind from governments. to me it's about the declaration of independence. our founding department and our contusion, of course. if you get caught and found to have gotten the aid of a foreign government in winning an election in a significant way, which this could be, that gets to impeachment questions. it's not about breaking a law that anybody can break. only a presidential candidate can break that rule. you don't take assistance from a foreign government in an

independent country like ours that treasures or independence. we declared it. >> we may get to that point of course but there's a long way to go before we get there. >> you don't see russian involvement in picking trump? are you sure? they got a guy in parliament saying we did it. >> my point is that the mueller investigation is going to come -- presumably will come first and may come to you know some head before we get to the question. >> here's my question about jared kushner. okay. i don't like nepotism. we've all learned through centuries of history, including the papacy, you don't hire your kid, your don't hire your son-in-law because you can't fire him. it didn't hurt trump to fireman that fort from the white house because he wasn't kin. he doesn't want to fire his daughter's husband. >> well that particular factor didn't come up explicitly in your reporting but one of the

issues that some of the lawyers were concerned by was the concern that jared might speak to the president about the russia probe without the presence of a lawyer. >> how would that endanger the president? >> it's just something that would not be advisable for the president or for jared or for jared kushner. >> if he did something wrong, he did something wrong. if he tells somebody he did something wrong, how does it make that person he tells he did something wrong incriminated. >> it makes that person exposed to questions by the mueller team. >> you're able to report at "the wall street journal," the discussion of getting rid of him as a top staffer in the white house was really not so much because they thought he was tainted goods, may be going to jail, but because they're afraid he might spread a conversation throughout the white house that would require more witnessing? >> that was one of the concerns. there were other concerns

including at the time this was raised by some of the president's lawyers they -- there were two meetings that were being examined by the mueller team that concerned kushner and russian officials or russian operatives and there was a third that the attorneys were aware of that had not yet become public and that was the trump tower meeting. >> without giving into your sources or giving them away, although i always want to find them out, did you think there was a bias there by the people who didn't like the cut of that guy's jib, kushner. some lawyers wanted him out of there because they didn't like him. or were there those who rooted for him? >> our reporting didn't show any of that. i can't say for sure but this -- >> everything coming out of the white house seems to be bent in some direction by some group that either is a globalist or a trump nationalist and they fight it out between the bannon crowd and what was once the reince priebus crowd.

>> there was dispute among the legal team of whether it should be recommended. >> they should have had a dispute way back when of whether to have a son-in-law work in the white house or a daughter. it's called nepotism. susan paige is going to stick with us. she had a wow interview with hillary clinton. he's going to share with us personally. the book is called "what happened." it's a well-published book. it looks like it's going to sell a lot. this is "hardball" where the action is. ...has grown into an enterprise. that's why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. now, i'm earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase i make. everything. which adds up to thousands of dollars back every year... ...and helps keep my passion growing... ...in every direction.

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that are easier to pass. do not give linzess to children less than six and it should not be given to children six to less than eighteen. it may harm them. don't take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include gas, stomach-area pain and swelling. talk to your doctor about managing your symptoms proactively with linzess. welcome back to hardball. hillary clinton's now tell all book "what happened" came out today. it's her take on what wrong and what she wishes she had done differently in the 2016 election. he writes, it's hafair to say there was a mismatch in how i

approach politics and what the country wanted to hear in 2016. i've learned that the best proposals can land on deaf ears when people are disillusions and disgusted with politicians. when people are angry and looking for someone to blame, they don't want to hear our ten-point plan to create jobs and wages. they want you to be angry too. she admits that millions and millions 0 people decided they didn't like me. imagine what has feels like. it hurts. it's a hard time to accept. no getting around it. sara huckabee sanders called the book sad. let's watch her. >> i think it's sad that after hillary clinton ran one of the most negative campaigns in history and lost and the last chapter of her public life is going to be now defined by propping up book sales with false and reckless attacks. >> said out of anger or what, sadness. anyway, i'm back with susan

paige who interviewed hillary clinton yesterday about the book. i find the book fascinating. i thit is authentic so far what i'm reading. the thing that gets to me is a couple of things. many times now she says i didn't follow my instinct, whether it was turning around to the lug behind her when trump was trolling after her like the phantom and she said maybe i should have turned around and confronted him and then saying maybe i should have confronted some other charges, like going after comey or whatever. why did she abandon instinct all of those times. is there an understanding of why she wasn't instinctive. >> she's always been a cautious politician and not a risk taking one. never been a john mccain or lindsey graham politician that felt confident enough to say what she thought and then deal with the consequences. she's cautious and calculating. and the difference in this book and her two previous memoirs, she is to a degree less calculating, more candid and

pretty wounded from the election. >> no matter what you saw in politics -- she got the most votes. won the popular as everybody will remember. is she at all angry -- i haven't read the book yet, just pieces. is she angry at the staff people in the end you pay these staff people couple hundred a year, a lot by the month and you expect them to give you the lay of the land, what's the mood out there, what's working. every since kennedy hired a pollster, they have pollsters. how come they didn't pick it up? >> she's mad at bernie sanders because she says his attacks on her in the primaries gave trump a way to attack her as crooked hillary and she blames comey and that october 28 statement with finding new e-mails with costing her the election. >> bernie is not retired. bernie sanders i think could well run.

i don't care how old he is. he's hitting all of the states, moving around. she's got his juice still. and she's now -- you think she is out of the running. you think he's basically decided i've tried it, it's over. >> she says, she told me i'm not going to run for office again. and this is not the book she would have written if he was going to run for office again. i believe she's not going to run for office again but i do think she wants to stay engaged in politics and she's going to be a critic of bernie sanders going guard. >> she's a moderate, too hawkish for me. but on other issues i'm sort of back and forth on free trade sometimes. but i think she's a free trader, a bit of a hawk, certainly a moderate like her husband, bill clinton. i think she was for nafta. a long record here, people work hard and play by the rules within the clinton sales pitch. i don't think she's a lefty. do you think she'll stay in the ring as an advocate for a moderate democrat candidate in 202. >> i think she's a pragmatist.

and she's also the dutiful student. she wants to have a ten-point program and she wants the budget numbers to add up and that is not the kind of campaign that tenz to catch fire and gets people charged up. it's not aspirational and i think that's one of the things that undid her when she was running against bernie sanders. that's not to say she's not a progressive. i think she is. >> that word is pretty widely used now. >> she's a liberal on issues that come to civil rights and women's rights and -- >> that's true. i'm talking about economics, you're right on the social issues like abortion rights, choice rights i think she is. great reporting as always. really nice human thing from you about her. up next, president trump reportedly raved about the great press he received after striking a deal with democrats. chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. will he continue to change partners and dance?

that's what he's doing. whoever gets him what he wants, we'll get some clues about that. what' he up to now. he's no longer tied to the republican party it looks like. you're watching "hardball." having moderate to severe plaque psoriasis is not always easy. it's a long-distance run. and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for nearly 10 years. humira works inside the body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults taking humira were clear or almost clear and many saw 75% and even 90% clearance

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welcome back to hardball. president trump is continuing his outreach. eager to keep the positive reviews coming in, president trump is hosting a handful of democrats from states he won at the white house for a dinner to discuss tax reform. this includes senator heidi hide camp, joe manchin of west virginia. according to bloomberg news, the taunt is part of a larger white house strategy to get the president back on the offense. bloomberg reports that the white house will target 13 states over the next few weeks a.

he's going to travel to 13 states. i'm joined by the hardball round table tonight. thank you all for joining us. right down the line here. is trump showing -- tell me what it shows you about trump's flexibility. he's dancing with chuck and nancy, he gets the three-month extension without a lot of crap about debt ceiling, gets help for harvey, makes mitch mcconnell angry and paul ryan angry. and now he's going to try to get a tax bill with the help of democrats. >> i think it's important to know that donald trump has not been a republican his whole life. i don't think he feels necessarily any sort of you know really fierce partisan loyalty. i think he's willing to make deals with democrat to get something done that he wants to get done. and the fact of the matter is that on the hill he has not been able to get a lot done.

anybody who can help him get a win at this point he's willing to work with. >> he looks at mitch mcconnell and says you had your shot. you blew it. >> he may be trying to throw stuff at the wall and see what comes as a win. this is a president that knows that people voted for him. they didn't necessarily vote for the person who was just the republican party nominee. and he knows that his base sees him as sometimes kind of separate fra the senate majority leader, from the house speaker and sometimes they don't like those people and they thought they were stand in the way of the president getting his agenda done. so in that respect he has the ability to be flexible. >> why did he blow his first wad if you will by going after obamacare. all he did is some tackling dummy for the democrats because the republicans say we've got to get rid of obamacare without an idea of how to replace it or repeal it. he played their game. >> he did. >> he ran on trade and immigration and stupid wars. the thing about obamacare was on

the side. >> he suggested that would be something he would do. there's deep frustration in the white house about paul ryan and mitch mcconnell that they started with hemt care. the president told people close to him that he blames ryan, suggesting this would have been an easy win. and when the first house bill went down, the trump feels that's about him. trump is about winning. the campaign slogan is we're going to win so much you're going to be tired of it. right out of the gate he was handed a significant loss. >> of all of the complicated issues in life, war and peace, sost and abortion rights, it's the hardest. everybody has health, everybody worries about it, everybody has family, everybody thinking they're getting screws and everybody wants an edge. and therefore look at what happened to hillary and bill clinton. >> there's regret in the white house that they didn't tackle infrastructure first where they feel like they could have landed some bipartisan support. >> how could we have known that

and trump didn't know that. infrastructure is a seller. unions want the jobs. >> there was a fear among the democrats that he would come in and start with ingra structure and be a transformative president. he came in with a series of controversial divisive issues that emboldened the democrat party to stand against him. it's important that we don't go too far. we have to see what the tax reform ends up being. if he comes out with a plan that is still the tax cuts that not a large scale, that goes against what he was say in the campaign and -- >> can't just be a rich man's deal. >> yeah, i think that's a really good point. i think that we shouldn't take this necessarily at face value that they're going to get this big win on tax reform until we see what it's going to look like and who signs on. >> i'm hopeful that we can have a government that operates. i like to see a tax bill that cleans up the system, makes it easy for you to pay your taxes if you're honest. up next these three will tell me

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a pilot like you showelcome to miami.buses. you should be serving your country. [ whispering ] i'm working for the c-i-a. that sounds made up, barry. this is going to be good for us. nice wheels. [ laughter ] ♪ that's for the damage. and your bike. you never saw me. [ bell rings ] american made. rated r. we're back with "hardball" round table. tell me something i don't know. >> you referred earlier to the show to the story i wrote yesterday about a former se official who is joining the staff of the devin nunez and something you might not knee about that sh e's previously worked for nunez in the past. >> is he on trump's side of the investigation, fighting for the

truth or trying to keep us from it. >> it's unclear. >> isn't he the guy that sent nunez on the midnight ride? o i'm sorry. >> i was talking to a trump biographer a couple of months agoago unprompted told him, i don't respect people because most people are not worthy of respect. >> cute. >> tim scott of south carolina is the only african-american republican senator. he was sharply credit careful the president's response to charlottesville, suggested that if the president couldn't be counted on to lead against the kkk, how could he lead this nation against our woes to the overseas? tomorrow a one-on-one meeting with the president, charlottesville sure to come up. >> thank you, panel. up next, senator rand paul says congress had abdicated its role when it comes to authorizing wars. what does he plan to do about that? we'll ask him, authorize or not these wars rather this is "hardba "hardball" where the action is.

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i rise today to oppose unauthorized, undeclared, and unconstitutional war. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was republican senator rand paul of kentucky arguing for a vote on his amendment to end authorizations for the ongoing wars in iraq and afghanistan. last night he staged a protest on the floor. vowing to do everything in his power to prevent the senate from moving forward on their defense bill if they refuse to vote on reauthorizing these wars. i'm joined by senator paul. why are you so alone out there, senator? >> you know, i don't know. i actually think there's going to be a coming-together of right and left on this. i'm excited tonight to tell you and your viewers that i am going to get the vote. i sat quietly last night because the rules say i could only speak for an hour, but i could sit quietly as long as i wanted. in sitting quietly i was delaying them from their bill. so we've negotiated a vote. and so tomorrow morning, for the first time in 15 years, we're

going to vote on whether we should be at war and where we should be at war. now i don't believe i will win, but i think you will see the right and the left coming together on this. and saying, we should sunset the current authorizations, which most of us think don't apply to any of the seven wars that we're currently involved in, and have a new vote. and this is a big deal. because the senate and congress has been ignoring this for 15 years now. >> how do the neo cons and their allies continue to say this is like keeping american gis in germany, keeping our gis on the 38th parallel in korea, when there's no action there? nobody was killed in germany i think since 1945. the 38th parallel is a border we're protect. it's not a hot war. yet they keep saying it's just like that. but this is a hot war in afghanistan. a hot war in iraq. they keep making that dishonest comparison. >> you got it exactly right, it's intellectually dishonest to

say that when we voted to go to war against those who attacked us in 9/11, that that has anything too did with the war in yemen, somalia, libya, syria, iraq, afghanistan. none of the seven wars that we're involved with now have anything to do with 9/11. they have nothing to do with saddam hussein. so it's just intellectually dishonest. it's even worse than that. if you'll talk to the hardcore neo conservatives, if we were to vote to get rid of the use of force, you know what they would tell you? they'd say the president has inherent powers under article ii of the constitution to commit war any 97 where, any time he or she wishes. that i have a real problem with. so there's a great divide in our country. i'm with the founding fathers who really wanted to circumscribe the ability to go to war and they wanted to make it difficult to go to war. >> i think you're the real conservative. thank you so much, senator rand paul of kentucky. when we return, "trump watch." you're watching "hardball."

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"trump watch." tuesday, september 12th, 2017. did trump's huge cadre of lawyers see the net now enveloping their clients, nug client number one? do they see the multiplying points of light showing the route between moscow and washington and back again? do they see the ways in which the russians tried to screw our leaks toward trump and trump and his motley crew had their hands and mouths ready to blow kisses to the kremlin? or here's another possibility, each regiment of lawyers, one for the campaign, one for the transition, another for president presidency, trump for trump himself, one defending jared, another for donald jr., not to mention the teams of attorneys looking out for the moscow-prone paul manafort, michael flynn action roger stone, carter page, vice president mike pence. that these hundred of lawyers are each seeing only their client's spot on the battlefield

that they don't see the forest because they're so busy protecting their own tree, that they don't see how the whole matrix screams togetherness and the helping hand reaching out from the kremlin wall, the receiving hand grabbing whatever is being offered from trump tower. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> when i decided to just do it i said to myself, i said, you know -- this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story. >> new reporting that robert mueller is "going for the kill." as the white house toys with an investigation of james comey. >> i think that's something that certainly should be looked at. >> tonight the latest on the russia investigation, including new reporting on what vladimir putin wanted from trump. plus as the clinton book