eastern. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. >> it's 4:00. at this point, who doesn't want trump impeached tweeted ann coulter. dinner and a deal with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer on the fate of the 800,000 d.r.e.a.m.ers currently living in the united states. in return, funding for massive border security was assured by the democratic leaders. notably the wall was not part of the deal, but trump scrambled to reassure his unhinged base that the wall would still be built just not as part of this pact. let's show you some of the dramatic developments. last night after dining on chinese food, nancy pelosi and chuck schumer released this joint statement. we had a very productive meeting at the white house with the president. the discussion focused on daca. we agreed to enshrine the protections of daca into law quickly and to work out a

package of border security excluding the wall that's acceptable to both sides. the president this morning essentially confirming his commitment to that agreement. >> well, we're working on a plan subject to getting massive border control. we're working on a plan for daca. people want to see that happen. you have 800,000 young people brought here, no fault of their own. so we're working on a plan. we'll see how it works out. the wall will come later. we're right now renovating large sections of wall, massive sections, making it brand-new. we're doing a lot of renovation. we're building four different samples of the wall to see which one we're going to choose, and the wall is going to be built. >> the president reiterated that very same message of reassuring his once very energized and powerful base on a flight on air force one back from his trip to

florida. but that did nothing to quell the primal scream from his conservative supporters. >> what would you call a republican who sounds like jeb bush now when it comes to immigration and daca? you would call them a republican in name only, right? a rino. well, the president of the united states is apparently a rino. >> imagine if he called out to the crowd, we're going to build samples of the wall! samples of the wall. and we're gonna make the american taxpayers pay for it. >> is trump -- i'm asking you, who voted for him -- is he this tone deaf? is he this ignorant? does he not know what got him elected? >> ashley parker is a white house reporter for "the washington post" and an msnbc political analyst. kimberly atkins is the chief washington correspondent for the boston herrals. eli stofel, and nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt is also with us.

and joining me on set is associated press white house reporter and msnbc analyst jonathan lamir. rolling out all the big guns for this big huge day in politics. ashley parker, quoting ann coulter. at this point, who doesn't want trump impeached? >> well, democrats, actually, right now might be willing to take a pass on that. >> good answer. >> but, look, democrats, too, i have to say are still a little wary. when i talk to them privately, they've admitted this past eight or nine days they've gotten just about everything they wanted right down to the chinese food that chuck schumer loves but they've had eight bad months before that. so they're happy to work with the president where he'll give them exactly what they want. i think the interesting question will be if there's an issue where both sides really have to sort of come to the center, how that would work. >> kimberly, let me bring you in on this because i feel we've talked day after day about the

different ways that donald trump has blown up all of the bridges back to any sort of establishment republicans by equivocating which he reportedly did again on the question of good people being on both sides of the violence in charlottesville that resulted in the death of a young woman. by hate tweeting. i don't know any other word for it mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. by undermining their efforts to health care reform. he's now blown up one of the pillars of his support with his base. is donald trump going to be feeling a little more lonely tomorrow? >> well, i think the strength of in in and the loudness of the voice of his base is going to be tested against poll numbers. if he sees his poll numbers, which have been dismal since he took office begin to increase as he talks more about bipartisanship, i think that's bad news for his base. i think up until now, he was trying not to offend them and not to turn them off because that's all he's got. if he sees a benefit to this,

and we've talked about this before. trump's loyalty lies mostly to himself and to the things that will increase his own popularity. if he thinks this is the way to do it, he may forsake his base for that. he certainly doesn't mind forsaking house speaker paul ryan or mitch mcconnell. >> eli, my friend steve schmidt, friend of the network and friend of the program said he saw a video of a rattlesnake biting a man on the face. he tried to kiss him and he said what does anyone think is going to happen? what did sean hannity and laura ingraham and rush limbaugh think was going to happen with this guy? >> that's a fair question. this is a guy who has always been incredibly malleable on policy. not all that deeply committed, it seems to anything or willing to at least change his mind or talk about both sides of the issue. and also a person who has been susceptible to persuasion, manipulation. this is a guy who listens to whatever was in his ear last. for whatever reason over the last week or two, those people,

a lot of the time have been chuck and nancy. he's clearly enjoying demonstrating to paul ryan and mitch mcconnell that they're in the dog house right now. he clearly does have a personal relationship with chuck schumer that goes back years to new york. and so he is enjoying, by all accounts, the conversation he has with them and this ability to send this message. it remains to be scene whether this is toxic for the base. for a long time, republican politics were defined by this litmus test over immigration. get anywhere near immigration reform and it's a third rail and you're finished. i don't know that's the litmus test anymore. trump himself may be the litmus test. he's certainly going to test it. you hear outrage from conservatives like steve king defined by their hard core position on immigration reform, opposition to illegal immigration. we don't know where we are right now. trump is going to need republican votes if they'll get something like the deal that they first outlined last night passed through the house.

going to need more than 100 republican votes. but i don't know where the litmus test or power is anymore in the republican party. we're finding that out every day. >> kasie hunt, eli referenced the steve king tweet. let me put that up. steve king, a hard liner on immigration. if ap is correct, trump base is blown up, destroyed, irreparable and disillusioned beyond repair. no promise is credible. let me ask you a -- a two-part question. one, how are republicans dealing with being blindsided two times in a week, not just the substance of what donald trump has done essentially side with the democratic proposal, but the process with which he did it by going straight to chuck schumer and nancy pelosi? and, two, how much of this is about what donald trump loves most? twisting and twisting and twisting the knife, not out of principle, not out of the

pursuit of a policy goal but out of revenge for those republicans who never quite yielded to his will on russia or on health care? >> or perhaps just because he can at this point. yeah, no, i think republicans are feeling a little left out and trying to insist at every turn that's not the case and it's actually perfectly fine. there was a difference in what happened here around daca when everybody was in a room talking about the spending deal. at least when they did that, everybody was at the table. the speaker was at the table. and then chuck and nancy were at the table and the president sided with them but it wasn't as though the republican leaders had no idea what was going on, which is essentially what happened. here you had these statements come out. no one on the republican side had talked to the president at that point. everyone is confused about exactly what this means. the president tweets in the

morning and then talks to the house speaker. now my sense is that the speaker's press conference today, he came out and said, look, i don't think the president cracked a deal. this is to open the discussion. they are trying to help the president get things done here because i do think there's an underlying reality around daca that is different from the spending deal. they hold the cards, ryan and mcconnell. and they are the ones that put legislation on the floor and to a certain extent, if they know their conferences aren't going to go for it, they can refuse and that's a big bargaining chip when you're talking to the president. the sense is for ryan, the president is on board. he may be able to paper over those divisions in his conference. i've got to tell you the level of noise from, you know, you walk through all those conservative figures, there was a kind of funny scene outside the capitol today that one of my colleagues witnessed where dave

bratt who, as you know, lost to eric canter over this very issue and was supported by all of these people like laura ingraham and ann coulter, largely overimmigration and now he's standing there being asked, are you going to vote for this thing that essentially let you win your seat? it's a very difficult spot. >> jonathan, you've been -- i have been following your twitter feed to hear about how the president has dealt with this throughout the day. the president very aware of the harsh criticism from really the most diehard elements of his base. what's your sense of where the president's head is on this. he's very comfortable dealing with nancy pelosi. >> there's a screaming headline on breitbart today is amnesty dawn. >> can we put that up if we have it? >> there is talk on twitter that obamacare is the law of the land, daca could be preserved. that's a great year one of the

hillary clinton administration. he is very mindful of his base. up until this point, the last two weeks or so, no bipartisan outreach because he's so mindful of trying to preserve the core supporters who got him into office and he is still telling people he believes those folks are still with him. let's remember his famous line. i could -- these people love me so much, i could go out on fifth avenue and shoot somebody and they'd still back me. this deal here is coming as close as we've seen to that moment where he may need -- it's a real test of that loyalty. he spent today in a number of sessions answering questions from reporters, far more than he does insisting, look, we're dealing with daca now. the wall is still happening. this will -- i am not letting you down. >> let me get you in on this because you are as good of a trump whisperer and a west wing whisperer as anyone. one, he returned to his all sides have good and bad people on them in his defense of his

own response to charlottesville today. do you think he's trying to telegraph something to, you know, those hard core elements of his base or does he just screw up again? >> i think when he's trying to sort of telegraph something to his base, that's, on this issue, he is in trouble over immigration, the wall. i think those are the statements you pointed to about saying the wall will get built. we won't do any deal without the wall. the other comment, part of it is that's what he truly believes. and i think there are moments where he is more or less restrained, but if we look at all these moments of controversy, they are often press conferences or unscripted moments where the president we sort of say he went off script but that's not really true. he just sort of goes to his own script and what he really thinks. >> that's exactly right. kimberly, i want to play for you the sound i just talked about where the president today, aboard air force one in the last couple of hours, reupping his

bad guys on both sides response to charlottesville. let's listen and talk on the other side. >> scott has been a friend of mine for a long time. i was one of his earlier supporters. i supported him when he ran. we had a great talk yesterday. i think especially in light of the advent of antifa if you look at what's going on there, you have some pretty bad dudes on the other side also and essentially that's what i said. now because of what's happened since then, with antifa, you look at, really, what's happened since charlottesville. a lot of people are saying -- a lot of people have written, gee, trump might have a point. i said you have some very bad people on the other side also, which is true. but we had a great -- >> what did he have to say? >> we had a great conversation. >> kimberly, this feels like deja vu all over again. >> it really does. >> really bad guys on the sides of the kkk and then there were

good people opposing the kkk. this is what tim scott went with him yesterday and one of the people on the sides of angels lost her life. help me understand what he did today and why? >> i think the president believes that he taught senator tim scott a little something about race today -- yesterday in his meeting. at least his world view on it. i was skeptical that senator scott, dispute his intentions, was going to get far with donald trump. look, donald trump's views about race have been clear long before charlottesville. it goes back to the central park five where he called for their execution and he refuses to apologize for that, even though they were cleared by dna evidence. and there's birtherism. there's miss housekeeping. i didn't think it was going to change the president's view and it seems more than anything it solidified them. that's unfortunate. >> eli, i quote you all the time when you aren't here about presidential tells.

and the white house has felt halfway decent about the last few weeks about a lessening of the leaks. glen thrush described the temperature in the briefing room as coming down with the removal of the scaramucci/spicer era. we'll talk about that later in the hour. but this -- this is a red-hot boo-boo from the president of the united states returning to the very language that got him in a week's worth of trouble, not just with democrats. not just with the media which seems to be the constituency trump worries about most, with republicans. i wonder if you can square a deal with the democrats to do something rather reasonable on d.r.e.a.m.ers with reupping his charlottesville response today. >> the jekyll and hyde aspect of this presidency and the schizophrenia you get from experiencing it in realtime continues. the president, from my reporting, feels pretty good

about the past couple of weeks. he feels good about his response to the storms. sort of which has put him on a more presidential footing. he feels good about the reaction and the media coverage of the deal, the government funding deal, and that continues him down this path of working with chuck and nancy and trying to strike more deals. clearly he's had a point he just wants to get things done. have wins to show up. and he doesn't really care if they come from working with democrats or republicans. if he gets credit for all of it, he's happy and he'll take that and sleep just fine at night. i think it is fascinate, though, what kimberly was talking about. this is who donald trump is on this sort of identity politics and the issues related to race that go back decades with him. his comments on antifa. he takes the meet with senator scott. the white house puts out a word salad about the president's commitment to civil rights and to those issues but what really -- what comes through when the president talks and speaks from his heart, from his gut, is this insistence on

defining antifa, the counterprotesters, in negative terms. and so you get all of this all at once with this president. and it's hard to sort of definitively say he's having a good week. he's having a bad week. certainly i think new chief of staff john kelly has put some structures in place and has to be credited with maybe restraining this president a little bit in terms of the tweets and calming him down in terms of what we're used to. but it's still the same donald trump in the oval office, and you'll continue to hear the same views. >> we're grateful to all of you for your coverage of him. our thanks to kasie hunt as well as ashley parker, eli and kim atkins. when we come back, art of the steal. how did nancy pelosi and chuck schumer bring the president around not on one issue but two legislative priorities of the democratic caucus? and leave republicans bloo s bld for the second time. and bullying from the pulpit. how they've turned it into its

own fight club. what we're learning about a humiliated and emotional jeff sessions described as ashen and emotional the day he offered to resign after being blamed by the president for the appointment of special counsel bob mueller. stay with us. we get a gift for mom and dad. and every year, we split it equally. except for one of us. i write them a poem instead! and one for each of you too! that one's actually yours. that one. regardless, we're stuck with the bill. to many, words are the most valuable currency. last i checked, stores don't take "words." some do. not everyone can be the poetic voice of a generation. i know, right? such a burden. the bank of america mobile banking app. the fast, secure and simple way to send money. nitrites or artificial ham has preservatives.tes, now it's good for us all. like those who like. sweet those who prefer heat. sfx - a breath of air and those who just love meat. oscar mayer deli fresh. sweet!

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your voice is awesome. the x1 voice remote. xfinity. the future of awesome. i think something is going to have to reverse here with this president's policy or it will just blow up his base. this was a straight-up promise all the way through his campaign. the base will leave him. they won't be able to defend him anymore. >> that base will leave him.

that was congressman steve king, a one-time fierce trump defender with a warning to the president over his daca deal with chuck and nancy. joining us is a columnist with "the new york times," donny deutsch. they don't even try with a title for you anymore. >> just wordsmith. >> friend of the show. and michael steele, former rnc chairman and msnbc political analyst. michael steele, let me start with you. the base, they're going to leave him. >> yeah, not going anywhere. no, look. as long as trump is able to deflect this back on the senate and house leadership, they are going to hang with him. in fact, there are already rumblings that some folks believe that a lot of the inner workings inside the white house is what set this in motion. mitch mcconnell trying to create distance today going, no, this is your mess. you deal with it. but the reality is the base is

not going to go that far away from donald trump because there are some big stakes here. this is just a small piece of a bigger part of that puzzle on immigration for that base. symbolized by the wall. and so i think, you know, some will swallow hard. some have pushed back a little bit. but, nicolle. we've been in that room and on the ground. these folks are going to be solid as they were throughout the campaign and the first eight months of this presidency with trump until they see for themselves not just on this, but a series of other issues that there's a reason to leave him. >> i don't know about this. i think it's probably true that his connections are far more solid than, say, steve king can understand, but this is the largest betrayed promise since, read my lips, no new taxes. no one has after trump said he would not do this. he would not do amnesty. this is amnesty. if it's structured anything like schumer and pelosi say it is.

that's a very big deal. that's a promise, an absolutely unbreachable promise. the question is, does trump have enough of a connection to those people for them to accept him betraying this promise which was the key to his rise in 2015. the key to his rise is he went to the republican extreme. he took in the anti-immigration forces which were on the extreme and the center was totally divided and then he moved in on the center. he is moving away from the people who brought him into prominence and into that nomination. it may be a smart move. he now has 80% support among republicans and most republicans, a plurality of republicans support citizenship for d.r.e.a.m.ers. 46% -- 46%, a plurality of republicans say they support a path to citizenship for d.r.e.a.m.ers. it's not like he's making a stupid play on the numbers, but on the intensity and on his own people, it means something that

breitbart is calling amnesty. that's like calling him a child molester. >> i hate agreeing with michael steele, but i do. i love the man. donald trump got elected, yes. he used the metaphor of the wall. people voted for donald trump because they were as mad as hell and weren't going to take it anymore and didn't want any more politicians. and the base is not some yutz reading breitbart. it's a guy right now working in allentown, pennsylvania, who voted for a guy who talks like he does, who speaks to him and donald trump will say to that guy, you know what? we're going to have tougher immigration than we've ever had before. wall is coming. the wall is a mirage. and the guy will go, okay, boss, i got you. it's the smart move. he was playing a losing hand. playing a 33 to 35% poll number hand. he did the calculus. the donald trump i knew, the business guy, the pragmatist because he's not a member of the republican party or democrat. he's the donald trump party. the donald trump party is just as al davis says, just win,

baby. and he figured out, i'll take a piece of the republicans, democrats, you can all go home, all bite me. this is the winning formula. >> you can all bite me. do you think that is as close as donald trump comes to having any ideology? this is -- and here's how i feel. i know i'm a woman today. let me speak as a rom com fan. this sad show of the republicans and donald trump is you jump up and down with your hair on fire and say don't date this guy. paul ryan, stand up to someone bullying you. you say don't do it mitch mcconnell. a bunch of names about guys he'll appoint to the supreme court. it's not worth it. save your soul. they date the guy anymore. what does he do? week one, starts an affair. week two asks them to pick up the mistress' dry cleaning. >> where's the romance? >> they are these beaten, pathetic dogs, and if all his ideology is is bite me, what were the republicans thinking? >> she had to pick up the dry cleaning but she got gorsuch.

>> she got like a tesla out of it. that's the rom com parallel. >> no question that donald trump's number one ideology is himself. and he was -- >> but is it revenge? >> no. >> really? >> this isn't payback? >> no, i care about me. >> ryan and mcconnell would support this. he's done them a favor. he has taken this on himself with schumer and pelosi. >> that's my point. why not have them come over for chinese food? >> it's good they didn't come over for chinese food. they don't want their finger prints on it. let him do it. >> he humiliated them last week. this week did them a favor. >> you think they look good this week? >> it's not a question of good or bad. they have to deal with steve king. paul ryan has to deal with steve king. trump is like way over steve king. he doesn't have to deal with steve king. ryan can go, this is trump's thing. i'm out of this, buddy. >> bring us -- elevate us, please, out of our morass.

talk about how the democrats and republicans then, in fairness to your point, navigate a president that believes in nothing. >> they do it day-by-day, hour-by-hour, tweet by tweet. there's deep frustration from in the white house toward ryan and mcconnell. there's animosity. the president still blames them for most of the defeats this white house has taken. this is not a president who has much skill in personal responsibility in saying this was my fault. >> that's a very nice way to say it. you just relitigated charlottesville. >> this is what he is. and that was about being -- he is still angry about that because he feels he got pushed into that statement, the one he had to give at the white house which we did strike the right notes and denounce the kkk. he feels he was pushed into that. he thought he got it right the first time. he feels like there were problems on both sides. and he is here. he's like -- it's reactionary. he's looking out for himself. he's willing to make that deal

with schumer and pelosi, and he doesn't really care what ryan and mcconnell think. >> can i ask you a question? >> just -- >> john, i was talking. let me finish. >> i've been the first guy to always say he's crazy, he's crazy. what he's doing now -- >> you read a paper definition of a sociopath on this show. >> he's behaving so logically right now because he's looking at math and understanding this is the only path to get done what he wants and -- >> a week ago you were saying he doesn't know anything about math. in that news about attorney general jeff sessions. "the new york times" learning about the day he describes as the most humiliating experience in his decades of public life.

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today just as we were coming on the air, "the new york times" dropped this bombshell. the headlined reads, trump hu l humiliated jeff sessions after mueller appointment. the president blamed the

appointment of special counsel robert mueller on mr. sessions' decision to recuse himself from the justice department the russia investigation. a move mr. trump believes was the moment his administration effectively lost control over the inquiry. ashen and emotional, mr. sessions told the president he would quit and sent a resignation letter to the white house. according to four people who were told details of the meeting. mr. sessions would later tell associates that the demeaning way the president addressed him was the most humiliating experience in decades of public life. with us now is "the new york times" reporter who broke this story, michael schmidt, one of the reporters bylined on the story. jonathan is here with us as well as fbi special -- former fbi special agent clint watt and in washington, nbc news intel and national security reporter ken delanean. first to your piece. what do you think about -- you tied together both this extraordinarily dramatic scene

in the oval office where donald trump let it rip on jeff sessions. >> yeah, the president really exploded on sessions. we know the president has done this before to other folks, but what was particular here is that they had just found out that mueller had been appointed. it was evidently clear to the president he had lost complete control of this. and he really had blamed sessions for some time. remember, sessions recused himself back in march. that was right after the president gave this really well-received speech in front of congress. but the next day it came out that sessions had not been forthcoming with congress about his meetings with the russian ambassador. he recuses himself. the president was caught by surprise and that sets in motion the chain of events that in may, they are in the oval office looking for a new fbi director because trump fired the fbi director and this is when they learn. >> and you write about something, i thought it was eerie, that you describe jeff sessions, a man who spent a lot of his career in public service,

as being the most humiliated of his career. a report over the labor day holiday that general kelly was also yelled at in a similar way. i want to ask you about presidential temperament and why this never went forward? what did you learn? i heard at the time that people outside of the white house who were in constant contact with the president were getting calls about who could we get? who could we get to replace him? can we recess appoint someone? this was a very active process of the president at least having the desire to replace jeff sessions. >> no, the president really wanted to get rid of him. and he -- but he was convinced by the folks around him that this would be a real disaster. at that point, the russia investigation is starting to engulf the white house. they've already fired an acting attorney general, fired an fbi director, national security adviser, to get rid of sessions in the middle of this investigation would have only created more problems for the

president. so they were able to talk him out of it. this is in the middle of may. and what happens is the president obsesses about the investigation and about sessions for many more months. in july he says he never would have appointed sessions had he known he was going to recuse himself. he attacks him on twitter and around that period of time, he wants to fire him again and dispatches his aides to do that. they're able to slow walk it and stop it and basically wait until trump's anger moved on. and sessions remained. sessions is obviously still there today but it remains to be seen what will happen. and as the russia investigation gains more headlines going forward, as mueller moves forward, the president is going to get, obviously, probably get upset about that. and he blames sessions for this. so it remains to be seen how he'll treat sessions going forward. >> and i started to ask you this question at the beginning and realized i was dying to talk about the beginning of the piece. but you end by bringing it up to today and how sessions has worked to get himself back in the president's gootd graces.

he stood there and made this announcement on ending daca and the president about every hour since then has undermined him on twitter or over chinese food with the democrats. >> yeah, and the thing that folks in the administration say why did sessions stay around? and one of the reasons was because of the immigration policy. sessions gave up a very safe seat as a senator to become the attorney general. he obviously doesn't want to lose his job but he believed he could really impact immigration policy. and the speech he gave about daca was real about the issue that is the closest, nearest, dearest to his heart. so to then see the president sort of walk away from that and undercut that has been frustrating to the attorney general. and obviously so. it makes sense why he'd probably be at his wit's end about this. it's been frustrating and difficult. >> thank you so much for jumping in front of a camera and talking about your great new piece. i don't want to breakior website but get online and read it right now.

clint, let me ask you what this says to you about the investigation and how afraid donald trump is of it. >> i think at this point hee's run out of people to fire. you look at it, who can he fire at this point? if he fires kelly, we'll all turn and be like, he's the guy that's there to babysit you so you don't screw this up. he can't fire sessions. he can't fire mattis and a lot of other people are almost openly refuting him. the president doesn't really command a whole lot at this point. he's burned through all his bridges. anyone that was a loyal supporter to him who he demanded loyalty from, he's burnt through them all and they're out of the white house. and so when you look at the investigation now, it seems to flip flop every week between two people. manafort and flynn are the two we hear about. >> and they are -- manafort's son-in-law and mike flynn's son now are also ensnared. >> donald trump jr. and flynn's son and kushner. >> manafort's son-in-law.

four offspring. >> this is why you don't put families in the white house. you get this bizarre arrangement where people have to choose between their country and their family essentially if things go wrong. in terms of the investigation, there's three parts. there's collusion, obstruction and then the influence of the russians. and we kind of forgot that in -- >> potentially financial? >> both financial in terms of social media influence and in terms of how they were trying to manipulate the electorate. we've heard a lot about manafort and flynn. most of these are criminal collections on the periphery of this. that -- the president would take on general flynn, who had connections with russia and money, turkey and money and maybe now the gulf in this power plant deal is crazy. and general flynn would even allow himself to be considered the national security adviser with those connections is also stunning. he used to head counterintelligence for the met. you'd think he'd know these are three pathways for influence very dangerous for the country. >> if he knew, what was he doing there with that knowledge.

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what's in your wallet? nbc news confirming this afternoon that presidential confidante, unofficial adviser and close ally roger stone will testify before the house intelligence committee on september 26th. clint watts, ken and jonathan are with me. ken, let me start with you. what's the significance of roger stone going before house intel? >> roger stone said on a number of occasions back in the summer of 2016 and going forward he had a back channel to wikileaks. that he was in touch with julian asaunge and hinted that bad things were coming for the clinton campaign. he had access to the deleted clint opon e-mails he later sai and in touch with an entity that turned out to to be a russian

propaganda outlet. he said he had no advance knowledge of the hack of john podesta's e-mails and he wasn't -- he was not collude with the russians, simply had a back channel to assange. what did he know, when did he know it? who was he in touch with and why was he hinting along the way that there were these -- this information was going to come out on hillary clinton. >> ken, we were talking about the news you broke yesterday about michael flynn, the son of mike flynn, the national security adviser being a subject of the russia investigation. and i want to ask you the question that i put to clint about four offspring. you've got the president's son-in-law, president's son, manafort's son-in-law and mike flynn's son all ensnared in a criminal investigation. >> that's right. i was intrigued to hear you bring that up. i never really thought about it but it puts more pressure on the principals. the people that we presume bob

mueller is trying to get to flip and to talk about what they may or may not know about potential collusion with russia. mike flynn appears to be facing legal jeopardy. so does paul manafort. the fact that family members are also ensnared in this. having to pay potentially legal bills and answer questions from the grand jury and the fbi and facing jeopardy is going to add to the leverage that mueller may have over these men to cooperate and tell what they know. we don't know what's happening but every legal expert thinks that's where it's heading. >> as a former fbi agent, do you think that's what happening? >> when you see this sort of set-up it puts a weird twist on it. the president will pretty much turn on anyone that's not a family member or a general he admeyers. you are talking about money relationships. they could even have money relationships inside the family that are twisted up. if you want to drive an investigation or turn witnesses or gather evidence, this is a

great lane to drive in. it's much easier than a standard investigation. >> and roger stone also plays very fascinating, intrinsic role in trump's life. sort of his unofficial early political adviser before this presidential run. he's known trump for years. stone, of course, has ties to the nixon campaign, later, of course -- >> you couldn't make it up. >> if we wrote this in a screen play, people would say get out of my office. >> there's a very good documentary out about roger stone. the role in the 2001 recount. he embraces, brags about the dirty tricks he has employed in politics. a ta toof richard nuxon on his back. he is someone trump has always trusted and he's sort of the original. that altruism that you're never really gone from trump world. trump fired stone last year. they parted ways, depending on who you ask. but he has always stayed in touch. he's been in the president's orbit for a long time and remains in it now.

>> thank you so much. we'll be calling on you early and often in the coming days. when life imitates art. >> when i say rocky start, i mean it in the sense of "rocky" the movie because i came out here to punch you in the face and also because i don't talk so good. now i want to begin today by apologizing on behalf of you to me. >> but maybe it's only funny when melissa mccarthy does it. thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes! we got a yes!

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audience to ever witness an inauguration, period. >> actually, i want to say i am shocked at your statement that you think that only people from great britain and australia would know english. it's actually -- it reveals your cosmopolitan bias to a shocking degree. >> that is one of the most outrageous, insulting, ignorant and foolish things you've ever said. >> i'm not sure if he's aware, but one of the more outrageous comments anyone could make and something that is a fireable offense by espn. >> for those of you keeping track at home, the white house using the press secretary's podium to, one, lie about crowd numbers in the first official briefing to take place under the trump presidency. two, verbally abuse a member of the press in public and, three, call on espn to fire one of their own employees. we are in uncharted territory

with, with the white house using the press podium in a way never seen before. our panel is back with us. jonathan? >> certainly this is not what the podium has traditionally been used for. certainly mistakes made from behind the podium but seen usually as a relatively neutral, communicating to the american pup lick, communicating policy, these are our ideas but not for attacks like this. i was in the room for a few of those. the spicer one on january 21 1 set the tone everything since then. came there in his questionable suit and said we were lying. we were wrong. misrepresented facts suggesting crowd size and set is template that put in place the orwellian, don't believe what's right in front of your nose. everyone staring at pictures sean pointed to saying this was bigger and it was smaller. >> a couple things changed.

mr. bannon isn't there, mr. kelly is there. mr. spicer is not there. yes, a pugilistic president, but the demeanor, decorum, has shifted. as we all know that can change at any moment in time. interesting sidebar on the espn thing that came up with the espn person saying. >> jemele hill. >> and we've blurred entertainment, sports and politics and if every network executive is on the firing line for either side when somebody starts to go a bit over the line aren't representing the network. they're people in the world. >> go ahead. >> i don't like the fact, the white house is calling on a private institution to fire anybody. having said that, you are doing their job for them by going all crazy about this. this is what they want. they want to create -- >> i'm not crazy, but i spoke on behalf of the white house, and what it mean, the world is

watching. and don't act like a jerk. >> no, no. trump -- >> let me just -- i don't want to jump off jemele hill. he enjoys the support and has a hard time, recently as two hours ago, picking sides in a debate between one -- that the white supremacists are on and what the white supremacists are not on. michael steele, on the question of gentlem jamel hill. >> when the institutions call on the white house to fire one of their own, there is a bright line there when it comes to these things, but i think that -- you know, i agree with john. we kind of are getting past the point here. this is all media opportunity for this presidency. there's no serious thought behind this request that she be

fired. i mean, can we be real here? there's just no serious thought here. >> but does that make it better or worse? >> donald trump isn't losing an inch of sleep over what was said on espn about his connection to white supremacy. but affords him and in his talking pieces, and this is where the use of that podium is offensive, to go out and just ratchet up the noise. to create another rabbit hole for people to spend umptee ump moments are time on as opposed to staying focused on a broader series of questions to this administration about what they need to be doing. >> we in the media love talking about us in the media. our favorite thing. it is a terrible policy mistake to fall into this tar patch, because it is what trump wants. trump wants to create, set up, a rivalry between himself and the press. the press are his villains. he's here. it keeps his base with him.

it keeps republicans on his side. and we fall into it every time we possibly can, because it's like -- oh, you can't say that about so and so! how dare you. they're a great reporter. like nobody cares about us, except us. >> we know that he's used the press before. to that last point. i think the average viewers, average consumer, voter, is a lot hipper to this stuff than we realize. i don't think either side is falling off their chairs when a sports reporter or a talk show radio host -- these are it is just noise. period. beginning and end of story. that's it. >> last word to the reporter who has to stand in that room or cover that room? >> certainly there is a strategy, in some ways from the white house making the media the story. every time they can hit us, or reporting, perhaps undermines bad news storys for the white house. say, we don't believe this. their biased. maybe they won't believe the next russia probe story. >> from espn.

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sunday, sunday. we will broadcast what happens on the set in between. in the break. and our thanks to have awe and the fabulous michael steele in d.c. for us nap does it for our hour. i'm nicolle, "mtp daily" starts right now. >> thanks for that. if it's thursday, deal or no deal? tonight, mixed messages over the art of the deal. >> it wasn't a deal. they didn't say they had a deal. >> first off, there's no agreement. and it was a discussion. not an agreement or negotiation. >> we all agreed on a framework. pass daca protections and additional border security measures excluding the wall. >> a day of twists and turns over a possible plan to allow hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants to stay in the country.