process, trampled, et cetera, in the process. one of the witnesses tells us he saw a lot of smoke. he says he saw burn injuries. it looks like brown burn injuries on the backs of passengers. one witness says they saw at least one woman with burn injuries, to her face being held away on a stretcher. now, officially met police are not saying what may have caused this fire. they're not exactly calling it an explosion at this point. there have been pictures on social media of what appears to be some sort of device. it's a while, pale bucket in a shopping bag with wires sticking out and you can see a flame in this picture. it's not clear at this point how seriously injured a lot of these people were. we know there were a number of injuries. this information coming from met police t. seriousness still unclear a. lot of them probably

are, trampling injuries from what we are hearing from witnesses. as can you hear, this is an ongoing situation here, you can hear helicopters overhead, there's a large police cordon around this area. we're being kept well back from the tube station, itself, and police are still actively investigating. how many people were involved, was it just one person? what was the intent here? what kind of device was this? we don't know those questions right now. those are things police are investigating as we speak. i will say, willie, there was a very targeted incident if it was, in fact, a terrorist attack, at the height of rush hour, in an area where lots of moms and kids and dads were on the train going to work, taking their kids to school. a lot of very, very fright everyoned people in this area this morning. willie. >> some of the accounts we have been hearing talk about children

being at the bottom of some of those stampedes, kids on their way to school. kelly kobiaya in london, we'll check back with you. thank you. >> good morning, everybody, it's friday, september 15th. mika is off this morning. along with willie, we have donny doing, casey hunt. we have the associated editor of commentary magazine noah rothman and the care of the department of african-american studies university and washington anchor of bbc world news america catty kay. after unfortunately an eventful spring of terrorist attacks across britain. a bit of a quiet summer. it looks like, here we go again. what -- how do the british face these attacks now? is this just something that they understand is going to happen and they physical out how to deal with it day in already day out? is there a heightened sense of anger towards the government.

>> there is a heightened sense of insecurity in the country. i think there is also a certain amount of we're going to get through this and we are going to carry on living our daily lives. we're not going to let the derail us. you were in london, joe, over the course of the summer, concerts were still well attended. people are still going about their daily lives. they're still going to gatherings and music festivals around the country. this is an area of london. i'm trying to think how to describe it the brooklyn of london, it's where families live. at that time of the morning they would have all been on the tub traveling with their kids, two bbc colleagues were at the station at the time. they reported seeing people with scratches. some facial injuries or some burning. but it doesn't seem like this was the massive attack we saw on the ground they called north some of the more dramatic ones we saw if london over the course of the summer. whether this means if the turns out to have been a terrorist attack, whether these lone

wolves are now trying other things, i can't remember an first-hand like this of a buck being left on a subway train, i may be wrong, but this teams e seems to be a first, it seems to be a diversion away from some of the other things we seen used over the course of the last year or so. but you know, for brits, the really sad reality is this is going to be something that europeans generally, these small lone wolf attacks of different scales, are something that has become a part of our lives. now we have to try to find a way to intercept as many as possible and to carry on living around them. >> you are right. this summer, certainly, the problem with london wasn't that the streets were empty. i would have to guess you said some sort of records for tourism based on some people that were jammed in the city, but it is, i mean, it is a city that is extraordinarily diverse. and it is a city that still invites people from all across

the world and it's far more than opened in a sense when it comes to immigration and say, the united states is. in part, it's been a part of the eu and because there is a free flow of immigrants all across europe and britain for now. >> yeah, i think also there is -- you know, there is a resilience among europeans in the face of terrorism. remember, we have been living with terrorist threats on our continent for decades. hey, john meacham should be here to take us back to the blitzes, his fate period. >> actually, he would start with a french-indian war and somehow that would go to the red army. >> somehow. >> i'm not sure how. go ahead. >> i think we saw in barcelona after the attacks in spain this summer, what was the message of the spaniards? we're going to carry on. we were going to carry on living our daily lives.

we will not let terrorism win by carrying on living. i think that's how europeans are feeling about this. if this is going to become a part of european life, we will do everything possible to cover these terrorist attacks. we will fought let terrorists win. that's what they want to do. >> we will, of course, continue with this story as new information comes in. but right now, willie, a lot of things are going on in washington, d.c. yesterday. a lot of charges, a lot of countercharges, there were actually people who were shocked yesterday that donald trump didn't do exactly what he told them they were going to do during the campaign and, i know you will appreciate this, people like sean hannity and up a coulter, and breitbart. but to hear them talk, it sounded an awful lot, it just sounded like numbers of the main stream media. >> but he's doing what?

he cannot do this. this is a shock. this is the most shocking thing i have ever sewn in my life. steve cane, trump's base will not stand for this. i'm like, yes, they l. because trump's base stands for everything and it seems to me and we'll read this story in a second here. we got noah, i will talk to him. it seems to me, what sean hannity, aun coulter, breitbart, everybody else is going to learn is what the formal main stream media learned and what people on the right and left learned, what jeb bush learned, what marco rubia -- donald trump's base is not aun coulter's base. it is fought sean hannity's base. it is not steve king's base. it is not cnn's base. it is fought jeb bush's base. you know where i am going with it. it is fought "morning joe's" base. donald trump's base is donald trump's base.

steve king and aun coulter and sean hannity are insulted because he's didn't something they don't like doesn't mean donald trump's base is going to leave donald trump, they're not. >> no, he's the only game if town. i have been pretty impressed about up a coulter who wrote a book how we should trust trump. literally, "in trump we trust." >> nobody does that. >> in purpose awesome. i didn't make that up. >> did she really say we should trust trump? >> that's the book t. book is about how trump is awesome. but she's not rationalizing away her disappointment like some are. if particular, donald trump's base and some members of the base sunk costs into this guy and are invested in his success. she is beside herself with it. more power to her. >> yesterday she said that donald trump's dead, he should be impeached and she wants mike

pence to ascend to the throne. >> she's not taking it well. >> but his supporters are taking a different tack. including sean hasn't they, he is saying it is actually republicans in congress who drove donald trump into the arms of the democrats because of their ineptitude, it's not donald trump's fault, it's mitch mcconal and paul ryan's fault. >> at the beginning of the day. he said it's over. >> he said that a couple nights ago, too. he says he is blaming congressional republicans. >> my point in the washington post. it's never over with donald trump. >> joe, you and i have known him a long team. this donald trump, frankly, over the last couple weeks, is actually the temperature i iced to know, who is a smart guy works can do math and can understand that 33% is in the a winning number. >> that can do math and understand he's had nothing but losses and can do math and say wait a second, if i take along a few democrats, that adds up. the three issues, when you take

daca, hurricane relief and raise the debt ceiling, those are 90 percenters. >> the overwhelming support, including the majority support in the party. >> even trump supporters like daca. you also, talking about his base. there is a difference between his base that is a breitbart leader versus somebody working in allentown, pennsylvania. >> yeah. >> and believes in a guy who says screw everything else, i'm outside the norm, screw politicians, they didn't vote on issues. they didn't vote for him on the wall. they voted for an attitude, i'm mad as hell. i'm not going to take it. you talked about the yesterday. they are donald trump period. we go back to his i can shoot somebody open fifth avenue -- and i only wonder why the did not happen sooner. >> casey, the thing that doesn't make sense to me is how donald trump, it's never made sense to me. donald trump can look at polls and see this is issuesque with

77% of americans were opposed to. >> right. >> horrified one after another after another. one thing after another, that pushed him to 34%. now the people who are complaining and screaming and bell lowing and making the loudest noise, again, we can't underline this fact enough. they are doing that in support of a 12% proposition. a proposition that 12 -- they are the 12%, they're not the 1%, my friends. they are the 12%. the other 88% think there is a good idea. so if you are going to say that donald trump is going to lose his base and locusts are going to descend from the hearns and eat the flesh from his bones. you are going to have to pick another issue to do it on that 80% of americans done support and the, i really can't think,

we swear to god, there is a question coming. but i really can't think, it's friday! it's rambling. >> rock 'n' roll last night. >> wait, can anybody here think of another issue that doesn't better typify this carnival barker approach towards politics? where you screech and yell and you say -- i am right, everybody else is wrong, and sigh leapt americans are on my side. yet. 12% of american, the other 88% says what's wrong with you, man? right. so they're trying to push trump over the cliff. over a 12% proposition. >> look, i think donny's right. if trump's base. >> i know that hurts to say. but go ahead. >> trump's base includes democrats. there are people that voted for barack obama that voted for president trump and who i think are going to stick with him, so

far not showing any signs of not sticking with him, so for the crowd, sean hannity, anne coulter, sure they have their own base, their base, it overlaps with the presidents, but it is not exactly the same. right. to a certain extent he will command his own loyalty. on daca, in particular, immigration is, yes the thing that will divide the republican party, the thing that animates aun coulter's base of people, but these kids, as you point out, are widely popular. people want to help these kids. it's a different question on the wall and all of this -- >> it's a different question on imgrachlths eddie, i know we disagree on immigration. i've always said, if the first thing you do when you come to america is something illegal, please don't tell me you get to the front of the line. because there are people in pakistan trying to get their mothers or their daughters or their sisters or brothers over

here five, six, seven years. they are dealing with bureaucracy. you don't get to the head of the line because you broke the law. that is your first act. i have been saying that since 1994. i still believe it. you want citizenship. then you get citizenship the way everybody else across the globe gets citizenship. liamization, that's another issue. in this case, i can't say that, because the 800,000 are really the 600,000 that are d.r.e.a.m.ers. their first act wasn't breaking the law. their parents broke the law. and in america, we do not throw kids in debtor prison because their parents can't pay a debt. >> it seems to me the poll data suggests a whole lot of people disagree with you. i want to push back. >> of course, you do. >> of course. >> by the way, we're talking benefit shapiro. oh, i can't wait on that one. >> i read your piece with great interest in the washington post and i was thinking about i think you are right about the

distinction between the base that is hannity, coulter and those folks and the trump base. but is it the case of or can it be the case the trump base is animated by the fact that trump is a cultural warrior, that he, in fact, carries forward the cull kour wars in very clear ways, bold ways, this bold, brash, fellow who is idea logically amorephous. about move alopgs, when he back steps, back tracks here, he is no longer the cultural warrior? >> no, he's still going to tweet about crooked hillary and when christmas comes, he's still going to go merry christmas, hey, they don't want us to say that, do they? everyone goes, yay. >> he went back to charlottesville, don't worry, i'm still that -- >> so he will throw that out. by the way, he'll throw that out

because that's who he is. he is as we've said from the very beginning, you know, he's an archie bunker billion fair. the big guy is from queens. he's a guy that like a lot of blue collar guys if queens, he was never blue collar, i'm saying, though -- >> that archie bunker was a bigot. >> they relate to it. >> archie bunker was a bigot. so to call him a archie bunker being ought billionaire. >> laverne and shirley work in a beer factory. what's your point? >> it's a fact. >> that stumped me. >> you didn't watch laverne and shirley? >> of course. >> we will talk about this. quickly, this is a potpourri. we're talking about the indians next. it looks like the berkeley police from everything i've seen did a fantastic job. they didn't bow down to violence. they didn't, i know in one event. they turned over a park to some violent agitators.

apparently, they did a great job last night. so conservatives at berkley could actually hear a conservative speaker without having windows smashed in. >> yeah, the city looked like it was on lock down. there were some dividers him people boarded up their windows. it was in a city paralyzed by ben shapiro, who is a verifies guy. he's fought really a bomb thrower. he wears a yamaka. and he's being attacked by people as a white supreme cyst. he was among the people worn first and post-viciously attacked by white supremacists who seemed for activated. >> the anti-differentpation leag-- ain't defamation league, says he was the most attacked journalist because he is a jew. these clowns in berkeley says he's a nazi. one person last fight said, hey, we should do exactly what people should have done when hitler was

rising. one person tweeted back, you are, you are harassing a jew and committing violence because a jew wants to talk. congratulations, you are doing what hitler did. >> i got eight lot, a lot less than ben did. but we received a tax on cartoon images of jews being shot in the head. people photo shopping your face in a gas chamber. to have that back at you as fewer ro white supremacists, we will suppress your right to speak. >> there is a term used as a catch-all for somebody i disagree w. ben shapiro as you said, he parted ways with donald trump. he left breitbart. he did all those things, he has been attacked releaptlessly, he says inflammatoriory things, he does, but the idea that she's a white supremacist cheapens, because there are white supremacists in our mitts. there are people we need to be focused on. you throw that term out and make

an umbrella term. it's not good for the society. you know cheapen the term to the extent, we don't know who is a white supremacist. >> all right. why don't we go to the news now in eddie's got it. hold on now. >> i just think we need the nuance to conversation. i think we need to think about ben shapiro as an example of a particular kind of conservative voice that's being invited to college campuses, that in some ways take advantage of the norms of openness. >> what do you mean? >> what i mean is there are some people you invite into your space who hold positions that call into question the very norms that allow the space to exist. >> like what examples? >> what i mean by that is this. i am talking generally about certain speakers. i want to be clear that thousands of conservative intellecttuals speak on college campuses across the country every day. these sorts of events happen around particular sources. so what i mean by this?

what is in spap ro's head that should cause violence. >> i'm making a general claim. i know we got to get to the news is this. >> no, we don't. >> part of the people -- part of what i'm trying to suggest here is what happens when a conservative speaker or a particular kind of speaker makes the claim that certain people don't belong in this intellectual space that we've sacrificed the norms or let me say we've sacrificed our admissions criteria, there are a particular group of people that should not have been admitted to our campus. i've seen this on princetop's campus, when someone came in to make a very, very volatile argument i thought around affirmative action and the students protested. now, it's certainly consistent with the norms of the university to allow for open dialogue, exchange. but what happens when someone takes advantage of those norms to call into question the very

ways in which that committee is cons stutd. >> is that a proposition that merits violence? >> of course not. >> what's your point? >> my point is this every institution has to grapple with the challenge of its values when it's values are being taken advantage to call that institution into question. let me be more concrete. so when the university allows for open and free inquiry and then people come in and then make arguments that challenge the very people who are in that community. >> but you can't be delicate about the arguments that are being paid. >> but there is precisely the case. so what i get -- what i'm faced with an argument, that i somehow am a beneficiary of affirmative action, which i am, by the way. by very chew of that fact, i shouldn't be there and i challenge the person in a very direct way. right? and then that becomes the basis for, i'm losing my train of

thought here, that becomes the basis, well,ianway sfwr do you think it's productive for people to interrupt a conservative speaker to walk up on the strategy to block his ability to give answer to the point where that person has to be let out by security? >> no, but in some instances, i think there are moments where i don't feel it necessary for me to have to endure argument that questions my presence to university. >> here's what i believe is the flaw in that thinking. i think it's one of the things that has made liberals less able to defend their arguments in the rough and tumble of politics is that if, let's say you take pro-life. >> okay. >> if i'm in a law school and i sa i to my class, that i'm pro-life. right? that's a position that about 50% of americans if you believe

gallup support. i will be booed. i will be harassed. people will say, i don't want to support women's right to choose, that i'm this, that i'm that. that you need to go back to the cave, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. isayi i'm saying this, vince shapiro was saying this last night. this comes to mind. if you get up and say you were pro choice, you were applauded, you were cleared, you don't face any of the abuse that i have faced, now, if that is your educational experience for 18 years and then for four years and undergrd and three years in law school, but i know, which i did know that every time i opened my mouth in certain quarters, i was going to get my head knocked off, which one of us do you think is going to be more prepared to tell people why i am pro-life or why i believe that the second amendment means

what the second amendment means or why we need to reform and save social security and medicare. because every time in my educational experience i get my head knocked off, i would argue, that if there is a student of princeton offended by someone coming in saying, the worst thing that's ever happened to america was affirmative action. and eddie should not have been a recipient of affirmative action, he shouldn't be where he is because of affirmative action. >> that is the first person you want to argue, they will hear it. if they're respectful and if they listen, it will get their minds working. they'll hear the best arguments. i always want to hear the other side's best argument. so i'm prepared. >> but this is the point. in universities and colleges, students are confronted or confronting or exposed to a wide range of ideological positions

every single day. >> right. >> there are particular issues that are vexing. >> like what. >> leak to the environment. affirmative action. >> who gets to decide who those are? >> what those issues typically revolve around. they have revolved around it since major universities have been integrated, since brack and brown people entered those schools and women entered these schools, typically this debate occurs around issues that revolve around issues that concern black folk, that involve issues around issues that involve women, around the cultural issues and they're called into question the very -- >> confront it. >> we do. i do it every day in my classes, part of what i'm trying to say is this doesn't happen right with the conservative interpreter of ar as to thele or the -- aristotle or the breitbart folks that want to use the value of the university to

put forward noxious dunes. >> that affirmative action is the debate around that, it's something that's universal and exclusive to the fringe o. republican party? because it's a misreading of the republican party. there is a real debate. to disengage from it is to say it doesn't exist. >> affirmative action in the context -- sorry. >> i want to go to catty kay and go back to eddie. we've done absolutely no news, i have got to say, i am more proud of this segment than any segment we've ever done. >> reporter: eddie, i will take objection to what you said. it will be the only time there are objections on people on campus for when they were genuinely were neo-nazis, alt right, antesubmitic. or women. look at 2014 when condoleeza rice and christine le guard had to withdraw themselves from giving speeches at rutgers and smith universities because one worked in the bush administration and because one was the head of the international monetary fund. that's how far it's gone on

american campuses. it's not just what we are seeing in berkeley. it starts when people like that feel they can't go and speak because there is somehow an objection from them because they come from a more conservative, economic or political position. >> well, obviously, i would take issue with not allowing condoleeza rice and others to -- >> reporter: that's what happened. >> but i think it's important that we understand that these are isolated moments. they're not generalizable to colleges and universities across the country. i think it's the case that, and particularly, and particularly powerful and controversial moments like the iraq war, issues around imf in terms of its policies vis-a-vis the developing world. it can generate passions and those passions a evidence -- >> reporter: it's not even a story. imagine if that can happen then with these two individuals, it

is no surprise that we're see whack we are seeing on universities. i think it's a real suggestion it's an intolerance level on american campuses. >> eddie, is there a difference between somebody purely spewing hatred, nazis stand up, equal rights versus a conservative unpopular view? by the way, we can have a five-hour debate about atirmtive action. very intelligent people can make an argument against it. i'm certainly not one of those, but they can. other than your absolute black and white, no pun intended, hate spewing. joe i think brings up, i hate to say this, a really smart point in that, that itself way you talk, we're going to grab young liberals who can't hear the other side, we're going to have very unaffected liberals going forward. >> this is the point i'm trying to make. i'm not making it very articulately. this is very unsettling for me, it's early in the morning. i think this is an ongoing

caricature of universities -- >> oh, it's not. >> yes, i think so. >> it's conservative, oh, c'mon. >> i think so. >> i think steven millers like you. >> conservative for a week over the past 40 years in american universities. oh my god. >> joe, if you look at what's happened to colleges and universities since the 1980s, if you look at the ways in which the universities have been over determined by administrations, that have grown exponentially. when you look at who runs departments, when are you inside faculty meetings. when you see how the culture -- >> what can you find? i guarantee you, you do not find republicans. c'mon. i got to tell you, i went to the university of alabama, one of the most conservative states in america. i couldn't name one professor -- and i loved all my professors, loved them. i really did.

it was an incredible four years. i learned so much. even though it may not show on tv every morning, i couldn't name one conservative professor over four years that taught me in political science and history and english. they just weren't there. i went on to law school. i would stake, cattily, established law and people would shuffle their feet at the university of florida in con-wall class. i would answer a question from a professor that 80% of americans would agree with, and that 80% of course would agree with and people would shuffle their feet. it didn't happen a lot. >> the professor? >> no the students in class. if i were a professor, i would take their heads off. but again, i was fine. i turned around most of the time. i'd laugh at them say, are you kidding me? but i'm saying this not for conservatives. i'm saying this for liberals.

they have been bubble wrapped and academia for 40 years and then they wonder why they wake up. see george w. bush has won two elections and see donald trump has been elected president of the united states, they get destroyed in 2016 and if 2017, they still don't have a message to tack to america. there's a reason why, and catty, i blame american colleges. >> reporter: you know, agree, if we think our students are too faraj i'm they can't even hear from the likes of christine le guard and condi rice, then we have a real problem in american education. we're not preparing them for active debate in the real world. >> ve have a break. everybody, can we get eddie some coffee? because he's really frustrated? he's saying it's not fair we started this debate at 6:00 a.m. it's unnatural. >> it is. >> it really is. >> you should have taken sam

kennyson's course. you would have had a conservative teacher. >> examine, that was good. we actually have news we have to get to. mounting tensions, north korea fires a ballistic missile prompting emergency alerts in japan. new details president trump berated jeff sessions in front of top officials after the appointment of a special counsel. we have michael schmidt here. "morning joe" returns. liberty mutual stood with me

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set a curfew, or two. make dinner-time device free. [ music stops ] [ music plays again ] a smarter way to wifi is awesome. introducing xfinity xfi. amazing speed, coverage and control. change the way you wifi. xfinity. the future of awesome. . >> this report in the "new york times" claimed the president berated jeff sessions in front of top officials after the russian probe. and the report says that donald trump immediately blamed sessions and called him an idiot. the report alleges trump also told sessions that choosing him to be attorney general was the worst decision he had ever made

and that he should resign immediately. emotional sessions offered his resignations letter, which the president did not accept. he called at this time most humiliating experience in his decades for public life. i would kind of like at that point i would say two words on television i can't bring out. michael i guess jeff sessions didn't didn't say the two word instructions to the presidents and walk out, instead, he sort of stuck it out. tell me about it. why did he say? who talked him into staying and are things patched up between the two? >> i think white house officials at the time realized the severity of this. the problem with this situation that if the attorney general resigned. you have to remember at that point he had fired comey. he had fired the acting attorney general and he had fired his national security adviser.

so the idea of dismissing the attorney general as mueller was moving in was seen by folks bilike pence as a very, very bad thing and they were able bring the president back from that. sessions the following day offers his resignation t. president holds onto it and returns to him by writing a handwritten note on it back to him. >> have they made up at this point, mike? >> you know, look the narrative from the white house is that they have made up and that everything is fine. but i find that sort of hard to believe. this was a relationship incredibly important to trump early on. sexes was one of the first national politicians to really embrace his campaign and basically, trump, as soon as sessions recused himself in march loits with session and was furious about this as we see time and time with donald trump, he is obsessed with who is

controlling this investigation. whether it was comey, whether it was sessions, whether it was mueller. and this pre occupation that we tried to understand, the events of may of 2017 are still ones where i don't think we have the whole picture and we have to continue to push to understand that. >> and for donald trump, if you are donald trump, you look at all of the problems that have happened in the investigation. all of the subpoenas, all of the bad head lines, all of the horrible cable news stories. in his mind, i guess, it all goes back to jeff sessions. he would say, not being tough enough to stare everybody down and say, i'm not going to recuse myself and that's just something that donald trump doesn't understand. right? you work for america's since you work for me, do you what i need you to do and you protect me. >> what he said to sessions was that sessions had been disloyal to him. so it comes back to the loyalty. the loyalty to trump being more important than having to recuse because of other issues or allowing the institutions like

the fbi and the department of just the is to move forward and follow the facts t. president was vicious with sessions. sessions is a guy who said that he had never experienced like this before. he hasn't been spoken to in such a way. he came out. he looked ashen. he looked disturbed. and it was very unnerving for him. it's still. you know, because it was incredibly a critical period of time. the department of justice is putting out a press release announcing this, sessions is writing his resignation. >> i would call jeff sessions, anybody that thinks that donald trump's loyalty is to anybody other than donald trump the an idiot. >> well, the thing is, though, jeff sessions has been in government service for a very long time. he's been a judge for a very long time. he understands, you know, in government, i always said to people, why did you do this or why did so and so -- the government, all the world is a stage. and everybody's a player that has their own part. and that's something that jeff sessions would understand,

because he's been in the judicial branch the legislative branch, that's something that most of the people that have government service would understand, that is not something that donald trump would understand. a guy that's been in a family-owned corporation his entire life and there have been no checks and balances. i suspect it's something he understands much better now in the fall of 2017 that he did in the spring of 2017. let's bring to the conversation the editor-in-chief of "atlantic imagination" the october jump presidency a. damage report. can you look at that cover and it's sort of like the question that was asked i think of benjamin franklin. somebody. is the sun rising or is it set something is that white house emerging from goop or is it sliding into goop? >> i think it's sinking in orange juice. >> that's tang.

>> breakfast of astronauts. hey, jeffrey, before we get into this. i want to talk to you about north cre why. we had bob wootdwadward on here bob and richard haase and david ignacious. we were talking about whether we have a binary choice to north korea. either we're fine with north korea having nuclear weapons that can kill millions of peel on our west coast or we're going to have to take some sort of military action to stop them. bob woodward does not think it's a binary choice. he thinks we can still strike a deem. richard haase is not quite so sure. what is your take on north korea? what are our options? >> i mean you have to bring, it's a good question. it's the only, most important question in international affairs right now. i mean, you have to come at it with analytical humidity in the

sense that the mindset of the north korean leader and the people right around him. it's a bit of a black box. and we don't know what the calibrations are and we don't know what the tolerances are, in other words, can rhetoric lead to an escalatetory cycle that's impossible to escape? so this is the way i think. i mean, if we have a war with north korea, it might very well be because of a mistake, i've raised this issue before, i know you have, that we could have a war with north korea based on a misinterpreted tweet. and that's what's so dangerous about this. >> let's try to put something into that black box that we did and let's assume for a minute the leaders of north korea are irration irrational. they looked at the united states over 20 years and what happened with pakistan in '97, 'nation they got a nuclear weapon, we lad to treat them differently, what happened to mooammar gadhai

and we went in and killed him. an irrational thinker would say i have to rush to get a nuclear weapon as soon as possible, if i don't i'm more likely to get killed the united states of america. >> i totally agree with you, if you are the led oref a small despotic regime an adversary of the united states, i'm not saying you are, by the way. >> you have 40 acres of land if rural connecticut, you'll see i'm coming in two weeks. in two weeks, i got an announcement i'm make the main weeks. go ahead, jeffrey. >> obviously, it's in your interest to have a nuclear weapon. having a nuclear weapon anstetting yourself on a course that could lead to you use that nuke year weapon are two different thing. we have lived with a bun were of states that are not entirely stable that have nuclear

weapons. this is different. again i come back to this idea of the black box. he might be rational, the leader of the free. he might be rational if his own framework. in his own cultural and political framework. that's not rational by our standards. so i'm talking not having a war on purpose. i'm talking about leading to -- entering the cycle we can't escape within 24 hours. remember, this is not the old soviet union. there is no red zone. there is no communication. there is no embassies, the risk of this interpretation here of signals, of data, of tweets. >> right. >> it's profound. >> jeffrey, commentary magazine, in the issue, you raise the fact that there has been something of a reverse am of roles from this white house that the white house while it views itself as being a voice for the voiceless, this issue sees it as attacking the powerless, those who previously relied on institutions in washington to maintain tear

rights and help them. how -- expand on that, how do you see that? >> this issue has three different big pieces him i'm not sure which one you are referring to. go on a little bit more and help me understand what you are referring to. >> the use of state power to harass the powerless. to what extent do you sew that coming from the white house or this administration? >> which piece is that? help me out. i'm not sure, what are you talking about? >> i'm not sure actually who piece this is, i have not read the issue. it's in my notes. >> ohing okay. all right. i don't know exactly which piece are you referring to. >> jeffrey you haven't actually read the issue, have you? >> i read it 93 times, that itself problem. no, i think you're talking about. go on. >> no, let me step in here. and just we'll make it more general. have trump voters been aided or hurt over the past seven or eight months by the man that

they've voted for to actually lift them up in a way that the bush and clinton families did not over the past 30 years? >> i think on a rhetorical and emotional level, yes, they have been lifted up. i think are you referring to a piece written by our national correspondent ozzy coates in which he argues that the trump vet was basically a racist vote, a vote by people who have racial receptments and were feeling not legitimately, feeling they had no voice in washington. and obviously there are a bunch of people who feel that way. i think we're at a pivot moment obviously in this daca debate where you have a lot of trump people now questioning whether he's been cap cured by the swamp. but i mean in real terms, i think we talked about the before, joe, in real terms, we wonder when the coal miners an

excoal miners begin to realize that despite the rhetoric, despite donald trump's position as someone supporting the voiceless and the powerless, that those jobs aren't coming back, can you look at a number of different communities of people who have been made promises and those promises are not going to be kept. i think we are certainly at an interesting moment in that debate. >> certainly, casey, can you go back to 2004 and there have been some people in new york and washington asking what's the matter with kansas? because people in kansas seem to vote against their economic interests, but, perhaps it's good they feel the leaders in certain parties condescend. >> i think we saw an evolution as kind of this allture divide, it has been on the program all morning, jeffrey, i want to ask you as well. your magazine raises the sort of existential question about whether or not donald trump is damaging the presidency to a degree that it will never

report. what's your view of how resilient are our democratic institutions and where in the view of these pieces will the president potentially do damage that can't be repaired? >> right. that's a piece, up with of the pieces in this pack annual in atlanta by jack goldsmith, harvard law school, who obviously was a senior justice department official in the bush administration and his argument is actually mixed. he says that donald trump is doing, i have another piece in the article that says donald trump is doing tremendous damage to america's rep takes overseas, what jack goldmyth is arguing is that american institutions have been surprisingly resilient at the court have maintained their moral authority. their judicial authority in the face of some unprecedented attacks be i the executive. but what goldsmith is worrying about in this piece, it's the forms, not the laws so much, as the norms that govern presidential behavior, executive branch behavior have come under

duress in a way we have never seen before. and you know, he argues, somewhat o somewhat opt milkalimistically moderating his behavior, and we can have a snap back. this is what we won't know for another 3 1/2 or 7 1/2 years. whether the next president simply says i'm going to adhere to the norms that my predecessor did not adhere to. i think it's an open question. jack goldsmith believes the chances are good we'll have a snap back. >> katty kay? >> i've known jack goldsmith for years. he's fairly conservative. are you surprised at how critical he's been of this president? >> no. he's part of a large group of conservatives who i think are --

first of all, they're the most interesting group of people in america, the homeless conservative, i think. >> that's a great expression. >> i mean, they can all move to joe's 40 acres, right? >> how do you know they're not already there? >> they're all in your basement, for all i know. >> there are videos. >> yeah. they're in your training camp. yes, i understand. they're an interesting bunch. they're not a small bunch of people. it's not surprising at all, because i think we're going to find out as time goes on. i think some of us understand this already. trump is not a conservative. he's not a liberal. he's trump. he's a unique character interested in trump. and whatever policy works in his understanding of what work means, is the thing, and so if you're actually a conservative who is serious about conservative ideas, one of the ideas being restraint, not just judicial restraint, executive

branch rerestraint, but persona and behavioral restranlt, you're going to be somewhat concerned to horrified by the things that have happened over the past several months. >> speaking of personal restraint, donny deutsche is here. >> i am so on team joe this morning, and i'm not having fun unless i'm attacking you. >> i have 40 acres. >> i have my own. i got 50,000 guys with yamikas. >> jeffrey is somewhere. ask him. >> the point about north korea, i think it's so important that we keep calling this guy a madman. a madman would follow the gaddafi path. a logical thinker would go okay, i want to be pakistan. i want a seat at the table. we have to understand that. we sit in this wishful bliss that the other guy is out there, the goldfinger can't figure

anything out. he'll have a nuclear weapon, and they have been pakistan. there's no other play, and he's actually a very intelligent strategic thinker. >> he did assassinate one of his main rivals in an airport with poison carried by two women. >> my point is everything for him is about his survival and his power. if you go back to that -- >> jeffrey said it was a bold policy move. jeffrey, maybe you'll fit into my 40 acres after all. >> thank you. >> we're going to be reading the new issue of the atlantic, the product placement is incredible. you know the super hero movies where they show pepsi dispensers. here tang has sponsored this entire show. that's some of the most astute product placements i've seen. jeffrey, thank you for being with us. we hope you'll come back more often. >> i stand ready. we'll talk to congressman

adam schiff about the latest on the russian investigation and read jeffrey goldberg's editor's note right now to see where noah came up with question when we return. directv has been rated #1 in customer satisfaction over cable for 17 years running. but some people still like cable. just like some people like banging their head on a low ceiling. drinking spoiled milk. camping in poison ivy. getting a papercut. and having their arm trapped in a vending machine. but for everyone else, there's directv. for #1 rated customer satisfaction over cable

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we are following the breaking news out of london. police say the explosion was caused by the detonation of an improvised explosive device. they're treating it as a terror i said de incident. the images were posted on twitter of what is believed to be the source of the incident which purportically occurred inside a train car. the prime minister tweeted my thoughts are with those injured at parsons green and emergency services who are responding bravely. president trump weighed in tweeting another attack in london by a loser terrorist. these are sick and commepeople.

the internet is their main recruitment tool which we must cut off and use better. welcome back. mika has the morning off. donny deutsche is with us along with the chair of the department of african american studies at princeton, eddie glad junior. he wants you to know he's ready to go. kasie hunt is also with us, and noah rothman, and katty kay. also joining the conversation, julie pace. katty, let's go to you. we haven't learned a whole lot more over the past hour, but certainly this seems to be a much smaller scale attack than the type we saw in london in the spring. >> yeah.

it's pretty unusual for the police to come out this quickly and say they'll treat this as a terrorist incident, this investigation. they're in the process of asking bystanders for any video for any photographs that they may have taken, a couple of bbc colleagues of mine have said they saw people with burns and with cuts on their faces. but you're right that the damage and the casualties as far as we can see do seem to be lower suddenly than the westminster attack and the other attack in london over the course of the summer. this is something britain and europe are seeing more and more of. they're almost impossible to eliminate in totality, the so-called lone wolf attacks. this does seem to be different, this one. we'd seen a spate of attacks with vans in london and in europe over the last year. i can't remember one where a -- what seems to have been a bucket

was left inside a shopping bag on a tube station. i can't remember seeing that. this is a new form of that. and whether this explosive device was now the police are analyzing the photographs, but from what i'm hearing from our security correspondents, the question is going to be how sophisticated this device was, who made it, how much training did they have in making it and did the device fully explode. there's some questions about whether it didn't explode as much as it could have. >> this looks a lot more like the ariana grande concert. >> it looks like somebody who had a certain amount of training perhaps online, but was not as sophisticated and perhaps wasn't working with other people and didn't, frankly, get it quite right this time. but one thing you know, joe, you were in london over the summer. this is not going to stop londoners from going about their daily business. this took place in a residential

part of london. lots of my friends live there. i've taken tubes from that station many times with my kids. this is not going to stop londoners from going about their daily business. it didn't stop people in spain and barcelona after the attacks this summer, and there's a sense of resistance, i think, growing among europeans. if we're having the attacks on a more frequent basis, we're going to carry on doing the things we would normally do, going to concerts, taking our kids to school. we're not going to let this stop up. >> every time you say wow, maybe the president is getting it right, what he did this morning, when something terrible happens in the world instead of being presidential and waiting for the fact, he shoots first. we don't know anything about who the terrorist is. we know all the terrorist attacks in this country have been home grown here. so it takes a horrific situation, exploits it with no

knowledge of the facts. >> we were talking about how is president as he moves to the center on some issues and does what eighty percent of people want, he feeds his base on twitter. if you're talking about fighting against terrorists and calling them losers, i would guess that's something his base would eat up. now an issue that can't be handled with a tweet, and apparently can't be handled with scores and scores and scores of diplomats over decades and decades of american diplomatic life, north korea. they had another ballistic missile launch. officials say the launch oh occurred early this morning local time from the area of sunan international airport and flew for approximately 2 minutes over japanese air space before landing. roughly 1,240 miles off the

coast of cape ermo. people were warned to take shelter inside or to go underground. they tracked the launch and believes the missile was of intermediate range. it is the longest flight distance for a north korean ballistic missile. it's also only the second time a north korean missile has been fired into japanese air space including the most recent late august launch. all the other recent tests by north korea landed in or around the sea of japan. and in a televised address post launch, japan's chief cabinet secretary said they can't accept these acts. it's days after the united nations security council unanimous sli voted in favor of hard sanctions against north korea. let's bring in gordan chang. gordan, these provacative acts,

we can't put up with them. they're shocked and stunned and deeply saddened. north korea -- i mean, again, i hate to sound like a broken record, but we've sounded like a broken record diplomatically and our allies have for the past 40 years. these are people, this is a regime, as politico reminded us, that in 1976 chopped two american servicemen to pieces with axes. and this is a regime also that brutalized and beat to death an american student just this past year. they are not going to respond to word. what are they going to respond to? >> i think they're going to respond to direct threats backed up by action. we're passing the point where words have any effect. secretary tillerson who has been talking about a pathway to dialogue last month now is challenging the chinese and russians to take direct action.

it really means if they don't take direct action, and they won't, it means the united states will. so this crisis is probably going to come to a head fairly soon, because i believe there's a sense that words right now aren't going to do it. and the united states is going to have to act in some fashion. >> gordan, how concerned are you that some of the things that the president has said or tweeted might have given the north koreans a perception at least that there is now a rift between south korea and the united states and one of the most important things we should be doing at this time of accelerating peril in the region is making sure the allies are locked firm, united? >> yes, well, obviously we need to keep our allies on board. the fire and fury and locked and loaded comments probe didn't help, but this is not an issue about us or trump. this is an issue about the north korean regime and it trajectory. everyone says that kim jong-un, the leader of north korea wants security. he wants to preserve his regime,

and that's true. we also have to remember that the core goal is to take over south korea, and i'm afraid that when kim jong-un gets confident in his arsenal, he's going to use it to blackmail the united states and others into getting our troops off the peninsula and then trying to intimidate south korea into submission. so this is the problem for us, and that this is not just some pakistan or india or whatever. this is a different type of regime that also, by the way, sells this stuff around the world. because the iranians are reported to pay the north koreans somewhere between 2 and $3 billion a year for their various forms of cooperation. and it's not just missiles or nukes. it's also chemical weapons in all probability. >> gordan, now that we're getting close to a point of breaksmanship where we're talking about trying to force china to become more proactive, there's more resignation to the prospect of japanese

nuclearization. what are the risks associated with that? multipolarity in this region involving others all engaged in this brinkmanship? talk about that? >> i don't think the japanese will go nuke because of what they call the nuclear allergy. there are some people in japan who want to nuke up. they have enough plutonium for about 4,000 warheads. our agreement with russia only allows us 1,550 operational warheads. the risk you point out, and i think it's an important one for us to discuss is south korea. we stopped the south koreans twice tr from their covert nuclear weapons program. south korea wants the world's most destructive weapon because they're concerned about the north koreans. and so that's where i think the risk of proliferation starts? >> gordan, the rhetoric really has been ratcheted up from u.s. officials in the last 48 hours

pointing toward less inclination to diplomacy, more potential for action. at this point is there anything that russia and china could do that would pull us a little bit farther back from that brink? >> yeah. i think for instance, i'm not sure about the russians, but the chinese have overwhelming research over the north koreans. it's not just their diplomatic support. the chinese have been providing semi processed material for their nuclear weapons program. also crucial equipment and undoubtededly north korea's most advanced missiles come from china. the chinese can push them back, but they're not going to do that. what the chinese want to see is the north koreans continue on the path. it's going to be up to the united states to do something. i think one thing we can do is at this emergency meeting of the security council is to reintroduce the proposal that we wanted a few weeks ago, and basically tell the russians and

the chinese we're not going to water it down. we're not going to delay, and if you don't do this, we will enforce this blockade, and we will board north korean ships because we will not allow the north koreans to sell missiles and chemical weapons around the world. >> all right. gordan, thank you so much. appreciate you being here. now to politics in signs of president trump's sign to strike an immigration deal with democrats is moving forward. yesterday the president and house speaker paul ryan emphasized to reporters the republican congressional majority was not being left out of the dinner time deal with chuck and nancy. >> with paul ryan on board. everybody is on board. they want to do something. we're not talking about amnesty. we're talking about -- we're talking about taking care of people. >> the president wasn't negotiating a deal last night. the president was talking with democratic leader to get their perspectives in. >> if they do --

>> i think the president understands he's going to have to work with the majoritys? >> we all agreed on a framework to pass additional border security measures. we agreed the president would support enshrining the daca protections into law. >> julie pace, fun times on the hill for republican leaders. talk about the back and forth between capitol hill and the trump white house yesterday. >> there was so much back and forth yesterday. is there a deal? is there not a deal? i think where we ended up is that there definitely is consensus between the white house and democratic leaders about the outlines on immigration. moving forward with some type of program to allow the daca recipients to stay in the country legally, whether it's citizenship or not is a question, and to do something on border security that would not include the wall. it's significant the president would back off the wall.

again, he continues to talk about wanting to build the wall with no plan. and he puts paul ryan in a bind. the reality is the outlines the democrats and trump agree on here is something that you could get majority support for in the house and the senate. whether you could get majority support among republicans in the house, i think is a really big question. and paul ryan has made that promise to his caucus that on immigration he would only put something on the floor if it had majority of republicans. this is the president backing him into a corner and saying we could win. we could get a deal, but it goes against what ryan who is in a tenuous position with his own caucus, it puts him in a position to break his promise to his members. >> that's a so-called rule you have the majority of the republicans before you put something on the floor, and what that does is -- that's exactly why donald trump is going to the democrats now. because you're going to have the majority of republicans that

might push paul ryan into a corner to support a 12 % proposition instead of an 80% proposition. and donald trump to going to look at it and go why am i dealing with the clowns when they want me to hole their hand and jump off a cliff with them because they are the 12% against what'ven 75% of my own supporters are for. >> we always talk about donald trump being the source of the division of the country. but we see it clearly particularly in the republican party. if that move is made, the freedom caucus is going to hold it hostage. there's no way the freedom caucus is going to sign onto a deal that donald trump makes with nancy and chuck. >> donald trump then, will then say fine. there are, i got about 40 republicans that are in fairly moderate seats, about 25, 30 in seats that clinton clohillary c. i'll get the democrats and then get the republicans and anybody that wants to vote against an 80% proposition on the floor and

say they want to kick out d.r.e.a.m.ers, make my day. >> he does the math. and what is so brilliant about this move is he gets to look like he's kind of snubbing the establishment and being bold, but yet, he's taking the most safe bet, an 8 0% bet. he gets to enhance his bet. the other thing i want -- >> that is the best case scenario for a politician. there were so many times when i was in congress where the republican party would do stupid things and i would go on tv and i would criticize the republican party and people would be like you're so brave. i'd go yes, i'm so brave for supporting what 90% of americans support. and 100% of my district, but people in congress are too stupid to realize that they are banging their head against a wall. that's a perfect fposition. they will let donald trump be in

that position if they say you must do it this way. so be with us. >> he's finally figured out especially when it's an issue where basically 90%. the other thing is communication, the wall. donald trump created this -- it's an imagery that sticks in your brain. it's never going to be, it never was a real thing. >> it's not going to be beautiful? >> even when people go hair on fire, his base. he'll turn to his base and go i enacted the toughest immigration we've ever had and the wall is coming. that stays in your brain. there will never be a wall and nobody is walking away from him because there is no wall. >> nobody is walking away from him ever, because there is no wall. that was basically the part of the concert where he goes thank you, cleveland, you're the best. i mean, that was -- it was a rhetorical device. every time things got a little

boring, trump would say and we're going to build that wall. and everybody -- everybody would go crazy. it's like ac/dc. it was a rhetorical device. even -- >> it originated so he would remember to talk about immigration in his campaign speeches. >> even saying at the freedom caucus, we're not paying for that crap. >> look, the republicans, paul ryan essentially punted on this question yesterday. he said look, the president is for this, then i am not going to be bound by my promise to make sure there's a majority of republicans. i think that says it all. but the other telling thing from yesterday on this was chuck schumer was caught on a hot mike, talking to we think mitch mcconnell saying the president likes us or at least he likes me. and i think that explains everything about this. because the president sure does not feel that way about mitch mcconnell. >> julie pace, we have said here

repeatedly since the day that donald trump got elected that donald trump is a new yorker, and he has been a democrat, and even if he's a republican now, he is more comfortable culturally with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi than he will ever be with mitch mcconnell or paul ryan. he doesn't get them. he doesn't understand them. they might as well be from mars. he gets schumer. schumer is a tough guy. schumer makes deals. he gets nancy. nancy is tough. a tough speaker. in fact, i love the story from the other night when everybody was talking, and she goes, are women allowed to talk around here? i guarantee trump was thinking nancy, she's tough. he gets these people. >> in some ways it's not surprising he's reaching out to chuck and nancy. these are more his people than mitch and paul ryan. i mean, mitch mcconnell and the

president have no real kinship going on. this has not been a productive relationship. the bigger surprise is trump didn't do it earlier. there certainly was, there are friends of trump who have been pushing him to do this early on. i think this is his comfort zone. i don't think it means he is suddenly a democrat. i don't think it means he's suddenly going to be lining up behind chuck and nancy on everything. he'll still be lining up with republicans on plenty of issues, but it creates an opening for the president to take positions that tend to be a little more popular with more americans, and it puts his own party in this uncomfortable position, and he kind of likes that. he doesn't like the idea that ryan and mcconnell saw him as just this vessel to sign their legislation. that he would just take the win. that bothered him. >> which they did. and they openly told people that he doesn't care about legislation. we're going to pass it.

he's going to sign it. >> and this has been basically the way that republican leaders have tried to keep some of their members who are more skeptical of the president on board by saying look, it's better to have him in the white house than it would have been to have hillary clinton or another democrat. at least he'll sign our legislation. we've been toiling in the minority for eight years under obama. we've never been able to get anything through when we've passed it. this is finally our opportunity. if that goes away, if you now have a president in the white house who is a republican but isn't signing onto republican legislation, then that leaves mitch and paul with a much weaker hand to play with their members. >> right, and trump is finally eight months in, could become the disrupter that people thought he was going to be where he will work with democrats and also say things that offend democrats every day. he will work with republicans at times, but will offend republicans every day.

it is triangulation at hyper speed. >> and part of that is throwing red meat to his base regularly. i think schumer and pelosi has to walk this carefully. their base is they see -- they're already under fire. and if they work too closely with trump, there's going to be all out revolution in the democratic party. >> no. people care about how life affects them. it's on both sides. if i am somebody who feels strongly about daca or feels about -- at the end of the day. >> but daca comes with the draconian immigration policy. >> there's a reason why chuck schumer didn't say publicly, the president likes me. >> i think if i'm chuck schumer, if i'm getting things done and i stand -- i got to do a deal with the devil, but i care about the voter, that's what people care about. >> our next guest will tell us this. at the end of the day you can talk about ideology all you want

to. you can talk about party labels all you want to. americans want to get things done. washington hasn't worked for years. they want to start working. julie pace, thank you. great incites. it's always good to see you. and now in the wake of hurricane irma, at least 3 million people across florida are still without power and parts of caribbean are in worse shape. we have andrew cuomo who later will travel to the u.s. virgin islands and survey the damage done by hurricane irma. governor, we were talking about americans want to see things goat done, and certainly that pertains especially when hurricanes and other natural disasters come their way. tell us about what you're doing today. >> well, good morning. thank you for having me. i think you're right. americans like to see things getting done, especially in times of an emergency. right? put the politics aside.

people are in need. and that's what you're seeing in florida and texas, southern states, and the u.s. virgin islands has really been devastated. i don't know that the tv coverage, frankly, has adequately conveyed the level of damage in the u.s. virgin islands partially because the power was out, but governor mapp who is the governor of the u.s. virgin islands happens to be from brooklyn, new york, originally was an nypd officer. he called and asked for help. the u.s. virgin islands doesn't have the same depth of local government that states do in the united states. so he needs help on the assessment, the liaison with the federal government. he needs security assistance. so i said i would come down, we'll do an assessment. we're bringing an assessment team. we'll find out exactly how best to help, what personnel, what

equipment, and then we'll send resources forth with, but it's been devastating for the virgin islands. >> governor, good to talk to you. looking very buff, i might say. >> stop it, donny. >> those guns are looking strong. >> donny. >> let me ask you a question. what you're doing right now is what a leader does, a very presidential and democratic party beholds there. nobody running the show there. if i was talking to you off camera, i would say governor, after you get done with this, there's a big opening for somebody to take control of the democratic party. any thoughts about a presidential run? >> that's what you would say if we were off camera, donny, but we're on camera. >> i get confused by the red light. >> oh, my god. >> a little difference. oh little difference. >> i'm sorry, so once again, there's a real opening there, my friend.

>> well, look, i am -- i love what i'm doing. i love what i'm doing. i'm focusing on being the best governor in the state. i have a reelection next year, donny, and as you know, i'm a linear guy. i focus on one thing at a time. i want to do the best job i can between now and reelection, run for reelection, and i'm not planning any strategy or tactics beyond that. i have my hands full. identify dream job. and my mentality is simple. do what you're doing, do it well and stay focussed. you get into trouble in life when the lens gets too wide, at least for me. i like to focus on what i'm doing, and i'm out here working. while you guys are sitting around talking and drinking coffee, i'm working. >> i know, and we haven't even gotten to the indian's winning streak. we have head of african american

studies here. he has a connection with the virgin islands, excited about how going down there, helping out. >> right. i lived -- i have an apartment in mahogany run. i'm thinking about the small business owners, governor, who the storm just simply wiped them out, and we know that the power grid has been damaged tremendously. what do you think about -- what can we do? we know the tourists, the height of the tourist season is coming up. what can we do to help to bring attention to the island under these devastating circumstances? >> yeah. that is the question. that is the question. and your concern is right. that's why i'm going down. the question is what is the level of damage? the assessment is everything. unfortunately, i've been through this too many times both here in new york and before joe remembers i was the hud secretary under bill clinton. we did the emergency response

not just in this country but internationally. and you have to start with the assessment. if the grid is damaged, then you have a long-term real problem. if it's just a question of getting the grid back up, that's a different situation. so we don't really know what we're looking at yet, because you actually need a level of sophistication and professionalism to do the assessment. i'm bringing an assessment team today. we'll get a general sense of the physical need personnel equipment, et cetera, and then what to ask the federal government for. if it's just an economic need for small businesses, the federal government has small business relief programs. i'm afraid there may be some infrastructure damage that's going to take time. >> all right. governor andrew cuomo, thank you for being with us and thank you for bringing attention to the virgin islands and other areas that have been badly impacted by

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we're learning details about the deaths of eight senior citizens at a nursing home. with us in florida, gabe gutierrez. gabe, right after hurricane irma passed i was talking to bill karins, and i said the thing people never see on television is you're waiting for the storm and waiting for the storm. it finally passes, and then it clears up, and for some reason, maybe it's because all the clouds are gone, the heat, it's almost -- it's indescribably

sweltering. i don't know how many hurricanes i've been through, but it seems like the day after, it's always one of the hottest days i've ever experienced, and unfortunately there were tragic consequences for that in hollywood. >> reporter: sthaert. the heat here is stifling. it has been for several days. there are many fatalities in the aftermath more so than during the storm. millions of people are without power in florida. for the loved ones of those who died at this facility, it is not the storm that has them most upset. th this morning in the wake of hurricane irma, growing outrage over the death of eight patients in a nursing home and the evacuation of 145 others. some had body temperatures of 106 degrees, says the state senator. >> that tells us the temperatures were likely in excess of 100 degrees inside the facility. >> reporter: authorities

revealing one of the eight died on tuesday so nobody at the facility called 9-1-1 because they had a do not resuscitate. 78-year-old carolyn etherly is among the dead. >> i wish i had said i should go check on her, make sure she's okay. when you put something into professional people's hands, you think everything is going to be okay. >> reporter: the administration maintaining the hurricane knocked out a transformer that powered the ac system and the staff continually checked on the patient's well being. the administrator saying we're cooperating with authorities as questions about the incident linger. >> the facility had some power. however, the building's air-conditioning system was not fully functional. >> reporter: much of florida still reeling from hurricane irma's impact almost a week after the storm more than 2 million homes and businesses are still without power. >> there's still a lot of work

to do. and we're not going to stop until every customer is back on. >> reporter: chunks of big city miami are in the dark. so is rural glades county where hurricane irma knocked out electricity to 90% of customers. >> i am strong, but it just gets overwhelming. >> reporter: in the keys, a navigational challenge for the coast guard. surngen vessels blocking ships loaded with relief supplies. a navy master diver using nothing but goggles and a knife to help free one of the boats. on florida's hard hit west coast, president trump meeting survivors and praising recovery efforts. >> the job ha everybody has done in terms of first responder and everybody has been incredible. >> reporter: the president is expected to tour puerto rico and the u.s. virgin islands to visit hurricane irma relief efforts here in hollywood, an active

criminal investigation is underway as police execute search warrants. >> all right. thank you so much. nbc's gabe gutierrez. still to come, a new report explores why donald trump didn't build anything in russia. it wasn't for lack of trying. those details next on "morning joe." it can detect a threat using ai, and respond 60 times faster. it lets you know where your data lives, down to the very server. it keeps your insights from prying eyes, so they're used by no one else but you. it is... the cloud. the ibm cloud. the cloud that's built for your business. designed for your data. secure to the core. the ibm cloud is the cloud for enterprise. yours. the ibm cloud is the cloud for enterprise. (upbeat dance music)

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with us now, the ranking member of the house select committee on intelligence, democratic congressman adam schiff of california. also with us staff writer at the atlantic, julia loffe, i want to talk facebook. i want to talk internet. adam, you're a great person to talk to, but julia, we were talking about ben shapiro earlier being one of the more bullied people on social media and twitter in the 2016 campaign. it seems to me you were right up there. >> um, yeah, that was fun. >> yeah, that was fun? okay. julia, thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me.

>> why does twitter allow all the russian boots to in and completely shape a debate online? why does facebook, is facebook coming forward with the information that you need to make sure that doesn't happen again? is twitter cooperating? google? are they cooperating? is everybody cooperating? in a way they need to to make sure that foreign countries, foreign adversaries don't try to impact our elections. >> they are cooperating, but there's a lot more information we need. we don't have a full picture of what the russianss did on social media. even what we do know is profoundly disturbing. just in the last couple weeks the public reports about not only the paid advertising of the russians on facebook but the fact they used organizing tools to try to organize protests they had a web page in texas bigger than the republican party in texas. in terms of popularity. this confirms separate and apart

from their desire to help donald trump or hurt hillary clinton, they wanted to hurt america. they wanted to play on these internal divisions with the country, aggravate them, grow the divisions wider. and this is why so much of their advertising, their organizing was centered around these divisive issues, these sort of antiimmigrant, anti-muslim issues designed to enflame the american public. >> julia you talked about vladimir putin's strategy, russia's strategy, it's actually fairly astute. if you can project power by creating a couple of million bots with basic programming that might bend the debate in one direction or another, that's a pretty good use of your resources if you're russia, right? >> well, there's a reason they call it asymmetric war fair. it's cheap.

for little resources you get a big bang for your buck. the other thing is as people smarter than i have pointed out, this is -- we've been seeing this since 2014. this is basically vladimir putin taking methods that he honed at home working against internal opponents, independent journalists, activists, and exporting it first to europe, then to the u.s. these bots, hacks, hacking dumps, we saw that all in russia over the years. so, actually, i've been subjected to the same stuff in russia, and then i came here and thought i'm free and clear, and here we are again. >> yeah. adam, let me ask you about whether this is actually what we should focus on the most. obviously you've got a job to do. the committees have a job to do. mueller has a job to do regarding collusion and obstruction issues and whatever flows from that. for the long-term good of this

constitutional republic, isn't this what we really need to focus on in the long run and make sure we protect ourselves from disaster? >> you're absolutely right. we need to get to the bottom if there was any coordination, but we need to understand what the russians were doing to try to destroy our country. >> are we aggressively doing that? we're trying. >> wee ha have more work to do. republicans are working with us. we have our differences and you get to see a lot of those played out in public, but by and large, all patriotic americans, democrats and republicans, need to recognize, and i think many do recognize in congress as well as outside of congress that this was an attack on our country. as yujulia said this is a play book kind of attack. sew division from within. there's always a level of deniability. the russians can always say it

wasn't us. they're never going to want to show the full proof of how we know the russians were doing this. >> congressman, do the tech companies get that? from what i can tell based on covering your investigation and watching what else they're doing on capitol hill, they seem reluctant to testify or admit it's happening. are you getting what they need from him? are they acting in the security interest? >> we need more from the technology companies. i think they were slow to realize how their platforms were being used, and i think we don't have the complete answers. in part, i think they were slow to realize it because it was a difficult thing to identify, and in part it may be it's against their economic interest to be advertising problems about how a foreign government exploited their platforms. >> how do you address it? >> we need to compel the companies to give us good answers, and what makes this so difficult is it's not as if we

can simply ask them to send us their data and analyze it ourselves. we need their own expertise. we need their own willingness to devote considerable resources on what happened to their own systems and rely on the information they provide us. >> you have a great piece in the atlantic. we all know trump tried to build in russia. your piece talks about why it didn't happen. >> and donny -- to beny we'll now ask the question why didn't it happen? >> i did. >> you left it hanging out there. as far as you didn't ask the question. >> i like your jacket. >> why didn't it happen? thank you. >> that is a brilliant, inciteful question julia will answer now. >> thank you j sir. >> the reason it didn't happen is first of all, you need a good russian partner on the ground because it's a very corrupt. the world of moscow real estate is a very corrupt world. you need a lot of papers and permits and permissions, et cetera, to get a building out of

the ground, and you need a good russian partner with good political connections which donald trump never did. he had guys running around that were even too sketchy for the russians. they were like we don't know about this guy. >> if you're too sketchy for the russians, that should say something about your partnership. julia, at the bottom -- >> the other thing -- >> quickly, this does reveal when we're all talking about collusion and he's with putin, we're finding out his hapless lawyer is sending e-mails to a general account, joe@msnbc.com. like it seemed like they didn't have any contacts that would suggest collusion. >> they certainly bragged about it. that's kind of the problem. there's a lot of bragging, a lot of building themselves up to be bigger than they were.

if anybody can smell a con man a mile away, it's the russians in fact they smelled one here. donald trump doesn't invest in the properties that are developed with his nail on it. he just takes money out for his name. the russians were like i'm sorry, who are you? why are we paying 30 % extra for this? this is not a recognizable brand, and especially not that they were willing to pay extra for, which is kind of funny. >> the conflict in ukraine has to be the hottest frozen conflict on the planet, 10,000 dead, almost 30,000 wounded. mccain is in ukraine this morning. i'll summarize something he said. russian behavior today stems from the niepts at a time when russia needed financial assistance, which it did receive. do you agree with that statement, and if so, does that mean that we should not be

pursuing lethal aid to western kiev and ukraine? >> i think we should. we should have been giving defensive arms to ukraine from the beginning. we gave a commitment to them if they gave up their nukes in 1994 we would ensure their territorial integrity. certainly the fact that so many of their neighbors were moving in a western direction, they were joining nato. they were joining the european union stoked russian fears, but frankly, these countries get to choose their own destiny, and i think we should support that. i they that was the right decision zigs. notwithstanding the fact that it might raise russian fears. every country has the right of its own self-determination. i think they chose to merge with economies and chose to be part of a better international system. i think it was right for them and right for us to encourage. >> julia, what's the current

state of russian/u.s. relations based on your reporting? what direction are we going in? >> still bad. still very bad. i have to say this is -- >> and tomorrow will get worse? yes. >> that's right. yeah. so the thing is we talk about vladimir putin as if he's 12 feet tall and he's a perfect chess playing strategic genius. he's not. he didn't expect donald trump to get elected. i guess he was kind of pleased but now his hands are tied. that's the russian narrative that trump's hands are tied and he can't deliver on what he would like to deliver in terms of the relationship with russia. so the russians are really unhappy right now. this is not -- this is not turning out well for them. and they certainly, i think celebrated a little too soon. >> all right. thank you so much, julia. greatly appreciated.

congressman adam schiff, thank you. great to have you on the set. >> great to be with you. >> still ahead, the treasury secretary, he's the guy who decided when there was a total eclipse of the sun he was going as i'm sure he said, to the top of ft. knox, stand on a lot of gold and watch the total eclipse of the sun. >> what was she wearing that day? >> i think gucci, some valentino. anyway, he asked the government for a plane to take him on his honeymoon. that follows the report about that whole flying the government plane to watch the eclipse in kentucky where they keep 140 million ounces of gold. we're going to get his explanation coming up next. as we go to break, here's a "morning joe" artist's renditioning of the secretary's trip to ft. knox. i can't wait to see this. >> one million, two million, three million, four!

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you attacked a cook? >> i don't recall. >> on my show? >> apparently. sorry. >> so once in a while there's just a tweet that comes along that really speaks to all of us. for me it was ben pershing yesterday because fox business reports, sbarro to open new pizza outlets in russia. ben's response? finally we hit back. i like it. i also like very much the lego -- i love his -- whatever. >> what are you talking about? >> i love his little avatar thing. i'm just going to talk right now. it's friday and i'm tired. treasury secretary steve mnuchin says it was all about national security -- wrong answer -- when he requested to take a government plane on his honeymoon. speaking with politico yesterday, mnuchin responded to the intense criticism fueled by

the request saying he ultimately withdrew it. >> my staff wanted to make sure that i was constantly had access to secure communication and secure information. this was one of the things we explored, so they put in a request to consider the use of an aircraft. not so much just for flying, but effectively it was a portable office so that i could be available. and ultimate we withdrew the request. we found a way of dealing with other secure communication and we worked through. >> it little known fact, if there's a nuclear attack and steve mnuchin will be deciding where the missiles fly. >> i felt much better after hearing his explanation. >> okay. still ahead, we're going to go to london where officials are investigating a terror attack on the tube, an explosion that an ied. and house intelligence committee members are investigating russia.

we have eric swalwell from california. and ken burns with his latest project talking about vietnam. "morning joe" coming right back. ♪ ♪ wow! nice outfit. when i grow up, i'm going to mars. we're working on that. some people know how far they want to go. a personalized financial strategy can help you get them there. see how access to j.p. morgan investment expertise can help you. chase. make more of what's yours.

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you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. you know win control? be this guy. check it out! self-appendectomy! oh, that's really attached. that's why i rent from national. where i get the control to choose any car in the aisle i want, not some car they choose for me. which makes me one smooth operator. ah! still a little tender. (vo) go national. go like a pro. welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. we're following breaking news out of london. police now say that explosion at parsons green tube station was caused by the detonation of an improvised explosive device. earlier this morning metropolitan police announced

that they are treating this as a terrorist attack. with us now from london, we have nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella. kelly, what's the latest? >> reporter: joe, good morning. you can hear the helicopters above me still. the station is about a quarter of a mile away from here, just on the other side of this park here in southwest london. police very much involved in an active investigation right now. even as we get more details of what happened this morning on this tube train. it was the height of the morning rush hour, about 8:20 in the morning, when witnesses say they heard a loud bang. the train was pulling into parsons green station. it was full of morning commuters, of parents and kids heading to school in the morning. one witness said she heard the bang, she was inside the car where this fire broke out. she said she saw a fire ball heading for her head. she said if the doors hadn't opened, all of the people inside the car would have been burned. the doors did open and then

there was a panic, according to witnesses. people rushing to get out, climbing over each other, people falling in a stampede. another witness told us he saw a young boy in a school uniform fall to the ground and hit his head. in the end we're talking about 22 people injured in hospitals. the london ambulance service saying that those injuries are not serious or life threatening. met police describing many of those injuries as flash burns from that fire. both the london mayor and the british prime minister have commented saying we will not be threatened or intimidated by this kind of activity. the prime minister saying that her thoughts were with those injured and with the people responding to this. of course it is now up to the counterterrorism unit in the met police to find out who did this, how they did it and whether they had any help.

joe. >> nbc's kelly cobiella, thank you so much. >> katty, after unfortunately an eventful spring as it came to terror attacks across britain, a bit of a quiet summer, but it looks like here we go again. how do the british face these attacks now? is this just something that they understand is going to happen and they figure out how to deal with it day in, day out? or is there a heightened sense of anger toward the government? >> there's a heightened sense of insecurity in the country and i think there's also a kind of certain amount of we're going to get through this and we are going to carry on living our daily lives and we're not going to let this derail us. you were in london, joe, over the course of the summer. concerts were still well attended. people are still going about their daily lives, still going to big gatherings, still going to music festivals around the country. this is an area of london, i'm

trying to think how to describe it. it's the brooklyn of london, it's where families live. that time of morning they would have all been on the tube traveling with their kids. two bbc colleagues of mine were at the station at the time. they reported seeing people with scratches and some facial injuries, some burning, but it doesn't seem like this was the kind of massive attack that we saw in manchester at the ariana grande concert or some of the dramatic ones we saw in london during the course of the summer. whether this turns out to have been a terrorist attack, whether these lone wolves are trying other things, i can't remember an incident of this of a bucket being left on a subway train, i may be wrong. but this seems to be a first. it seems to be a diversion away from some of the other things we've seen used over the course of the last year or so. but for brits, the really sad reality is that this is going to be something that europeans generally, these small lone wolf

attacks of different scales are something that has become part of our lives and now we have to find a way to try and intercept of course as many as possible and to carry on living around them. >> and you're right, this summer certainly the problem with london wasn't that the streets were empty. i mean i would have to guess you set some sort of records for terrorism based on just the people that were jammed in the city. but it is -- i mean it is a city that is extraordinarily diverse and it is a city that still invites people from all across the world and is far more open in a sense when it comes to immigration than, say, the united states is. in part it's because it's been part of the eu and because there is a free flow of immigrants all across -- all across europe and britain for now. >> yeah, and i think also there's a resilience amongst europeans in the face of terrorism. remember, we've been living with terrorist threats on our

continent for decades. jon meacham should be here to take us back to the blitz, it's his favorite period. >> actually he would start with the french-indian war and somehow get to the red army. meacham is just fine where he is, but go ahead. >> so i think we saw in barcelona after the attacks in spain this summer that what was the message of the spaniards? we are going to carry on. we're going to carry on our daily lives. we will not let terrorism win by making us afraid to get out onto the streets and to carry on living. i think that's how europeans are feeling about this. if this is going to become part of european life, we want everything done possible to stop these attacks but we're not going to let terror win by stopping our lives, because that's what they want to do. >> willie, a lot of -- a lot of things going on in washington, d.c., yesterday, a lot of charges, a lot of countercharges.

they were actually people that were shocked yesterday that donald trump didn't do exactly what he told them they were going to do during the campaign. i know you'll appreciate this. people like sean hannity and ann coulter and breitbart. but to hear them talk, it sounded an awful lot -- it just sounded like -- they sounded like members of the mainstream media. like he's doing what? he cannot do this, this is a shock! this is the most shocking thing i have ever seen in my life! steve king was like trump's base will not stand for that. i'm like yes, they will. because trump's base stands for everything. and it seems to me, and we'll read the story in a second here, but i've got noah right here, it seems to me that sean hannity, ann coulter, breitbart, everybody else is going to learn is what the flummoxed mainstream

media learn, what people on the right and left learned, what jeb bush learned, what marco rubio learned, donald trump' base is not sean hannity's base, it is not cnn's base, it is not jeb bush's base. you know where i am going with this. it is not "morning joe's" base. donald trump's base is donald trump's base. just because steve king and ann coulter and sean hannity are insulted now because he's done something they don't like doesn't mean donald trump's base is going to leave donald trump, because they're just not. >> no, he's the only game in town. i've actually been pretty impressed by ann coulter who wrote a book about how we should trust donald trump. it's literally "in trump we trust." >> she actually wrote a book saying -- >> it's the title of the book. >> no, it's not. >> e pluribus awesome. i didn't make that up.

>> did she really say we should trust trump? >> that's the book. the book is about how trump is awesome. but she's not rationalizing away her disappointment like some are, in particular donald trump's base and some members of the media. >> yesterday she said donald trump is dead. he should be impeached. and she wants mike pence to ascend to the throne. >> she's not taking it well. >> but his supporters are taking a different tack. sean hannity is saying it's the republicans in congress who drove donald trump into the arms of the democrats because of their ineptitude. it's not donald trump's fault, it's mitch mcconnell and paul ryan's fault. >> at the end of the day he was saying it's over! it's over! >> he's blaming congressional republicans, and i think that's where his supporters are too. >> because my point in "the washington post," it's never

over with donald trump. >> joe, you and i have known him a long time. this donald trump, frankly, over the last couple of weeks, the last week or so is actually the trump i used to know who was a smart guy, who can do math and can understand that 33% is not a winning number, that can do math and understand he's had nothing but losses, and can do math and go, wait a second, if i take along a few republicans and all democrats, that adds up. and the three issues, when you take daca, hurricane relief and raising the debt ceiling, those are all about 90%ers. >> including majority positions inside the republican party. >> and two-thirds of trump supporters like daca. talking about his base, there's a difference between a base that is a breitbart reader versus somebody who is working in allentown, pennsylvania, and believes in a guy who just says screw everything else, i'm outside the norm. screw politicians. they didn't vote for him on issues, they didn't even vote

for him on the wall. they voted for an attitude. i'm mad as hell, i'm not going to take it. they are donald trump, period. still ahead on "morning joe," on the campaign trail donald trump called jeff sessions his closest advisor. in the white house he called him an idiot. "the new york times" reporter michael schmidt has new details on that ever-changing relationship. straight ahead. i'm also going to ask him how that relationship is standing right now. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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so there's this report in the niem"the new york times" th claims the president berated jeff sessions and the report says that donald trump immediately blamed sessions and called him an idiot. the report alleges trump also told sessions that choosing him to be attorney general was one of the worst decisions he had

ever made and that he should resign immediately. an emotional sessions offered his resignation letter, which the president did not accept. he called it the most humiliating experience in his decades of public life. i would just kind of like at that point, i would actually say two words, which i can't say on television, and walk out. let's bring in the reporter that broke that story in "the new york times," michael schmidt. i guess jeff sessions didn't give the two words, the two-word instruction to the president and walk out, instead he sort of stuck it out. tell me about it, why did he stay? who talked him into staying? and are things patched up now between the two? >> i think the white house officials at the time realized the severity of this, the problem with this situation, that if the attorney general resigned. you have to remember at that point he had fired comey, he had fired the acting attorney general, and he had fired his national security advisor.

so the idea of dismissing the attorney general as mueller was moving in was seen by folks like pence as a very, very bad thing and they were able to bring the president back from that. sessions does send a letter over to the white house the following day offiering his resignation. the president holds on to it and returns it to him by writing a handwritten note on it back to him. >> have they made up at this point, michael? >> you know, look, the narrative from the white house is that they have made up and that everything is fine, but i find that sort of hard to believe. this is a relationship that was incredibly important to trump early on. sessions was one of the first national politicians to really embrace his campaign. and basically trump, as soon as sessions recused himself in march, basically lost it with sessions and was furious about this. as we've seen time and time again with donald trump, he's obsessed with who is controlling this investigation, whether it

was comey, whether it was sessions, whether it was mueller. and this preoccupation that we've tried to understand, the events of may of 2017 are still ones where i don't think we have the whole picture and we have to continue to push to understand that. >> if you're donald trump, you look at all of the problems that have happened in the investigation, all of the subpoenas, all of the bad headlines, all of the horrible cable news stories, in his mind, i guess, it all goes back to jeff sessions, he would say, not being tough enough to stare everybody down and say i'm not going to recuse myself. that's just something that donald trump doesn't understand, right? you work for me. since you work for me, you do what i need you to do and you protect me. >> what he said to sessions was that sessions had been disloyal to him. so it comes back to the loyalty. the loyalty to trump being more important than having to recuse because of other issues or allowing the institutions like the fbi and the department of

justice to move forward and follow the facts. the president was vicious with sessions. sessions is a guy who said that he had never experienced anything like this before. he hadn't been spoken to in such a way. he came out, he looked ashen, he looked disturbed, and it was very unnerving for him. and it's still -- it was incredibly critical period of time, as the department of justice is putting out a press release announcing this, sessions is writing his resignation. >> michael schmidt, thank you so much. first he tackled the civil war. now ken burns is turning to vietnam. the acclaimed filmmaker is here with his new documentary and a historical take on what's happening in today's washington. also ahead, a member. house intel committee, congressman eric swalwell, joins the conversation. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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well, we love the people of florida, and they went through something that i guess the likes of which we can say nobody has ever seen before. they have never seen a category like this coming because it came in really at a 5. all you have to do is look at what happened in the keys. but we love these people and we're going to be back and we're going to help. and the job that everybody has

done in terms of first responder and everybody has been incredible. i just want to tell you, we are there for you 100%. i'll be back here numerous times. this is a state that i know very well, as you understand. she these are special, special people and we love them. >> that was president trump in naples, florida, as he surveyed some of the storage damage and met with some of the victims of hurricane irma. they estimate 2 million people still don't have power and the heat index is 100 to 105. so you have to feel for those people. so what's next? the forecast for jose continues to get a little bit worse every day it seems. still only a tropical storm. here's the new advisory from the 5:00 advisory from the hurricane center. that cone of uncertainty includes ocean city, maryland, all of the jersey shore, long island and southern new england. we would like to get that out to sea. still a chance it does, but there's also still a chance that it has a significant impact on areas of southern new england.

these are our spaghetti lines and some of them are too close for our friends in cape cod. as we watch our two models, they're in pretty good agreement until about tuesday. the european model is a little slower, the american model is a little bit faster. both of them are threatening more towards cape cod than new york city and long island. but again, we've still got five days to watch this. the average forecast at this point about five days out is about 250 miles. so there's plenty of time for things to change. you've got to feel for people that got nailed by irma. we've got a chance for tropical storm lee in about five days that could be heading through the same islands that irma devastated about a week ago. we're still at the peak of hurricane season and this is where things stay very active, one after the other. it seems like we're in one of those summers. up next, ken burns joins the table with his critically acclaimed project. "morning joe" back in a moment. kevin, meet your father.

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he likes us. he likes me anyway. look, what we said is exactly what happened. here's what i told him. i said, mr. president, you're much better if you can sometimes step right and sometimes step left. if you have to step just in one direction, you're boxed. he gets that. it's going to work out and it will make us feel productive too. >> i wonder if that was on purpose, by the way. >> i love hot mics. >> hii wouldn't have minded anyf those words to come out. maybe he knew his mic was on. >> caught in a hot mic moment

relishing his blossoming working relationship with mr. trump. this is sort of reunited and it feels so good. reunit reunited. because these two, obviously, have been friends. >> we're dating ourselves. >> we are dating ourselves. peaches and -- what was that? >> peaches and cream. >> peaches and cream. >> okay. >> captain and tenille. >> we're back with noah rothman, donny deutsch, kasie hunt and katty kay. with us from chicago, member of the house committee for intelligence, eric swalwell of california. congressman, thank you so much for being with us. peace appears to be breaking out on the senate floor and perhaps coming to a house chamber near you soon. what you've seen the last two weeks, donald trump talking to democrats, working with democrats, is that good to the country? >> it's good for the country. it's our job, joe. if we can strike a deal that

helps d.r.e.a.m.ers, we should do that regardless of who we're doing it for. right now we've got leverage behind us and the energy of the american people. i see us right now as we're america's bouncer. we're going to let the good ideas in and we have the votes in congress to keep the bad ones out. we should relish that role. >> kasie hunt. >> congressman, nice to see you this morning. you, of course, serve on the house intelligence committee and have been paying very close attention to the ongoing investigation. i know the end of the month will be very busy for you. roger stone coming out and saying he's going to talk to your committee. what do you hope to learn from him and where does the investigation stand now? >> from roger stone we hope to learn the same thing we learned from paul manafort, carter page, don junior and others who were particularly active in their dealings with russians during the summer of 2016. i'd throw michael cohen in there as well. it's really the months of june, july and august where the most activity took place.

you have don junior in that clinton/russia meeting. you have michael cohen who's talking to felix sader saying we can engineer this and carter page going to moscow and culminating with roger stone saying john podesta is going to spend his time in the barrel. no one has any idea what he was talking about when he sent that tweet. a couple of months later, we see john podesta's e-mails are hacked. are these just coincidences or russia's interference? >> katty kay. >> congressman, let me go back to the lovefest and play pollyanna. let's assume that this new bromance lasts. i wonder if there are questions within your party about how ironic it would be if it was the democrats that gave president trump a certain amount of success and perhaps boosted his chance of being re-elected next time around? >> if the success is for people who are looking for work and we can extend opportunity to them, we should do that. if the success is infrastructure

that puts good union jobs across the country and moves people around, we should do that. if the success means that immigrants who don't have a pathway to citizenship right now can find one, we should do that. >> so no political calculations going on then? >> i think the political calculation is that we would be in the wilderness for a very long time if all we did was obstruct. we should resist any time he wants to hurt people. but if he's coming over to us and wants to help lift people up, we've got to take that. >> congressman, noah rothman with commentary magazine. so is it your belief then that democrats should work to make donald trump a successful president and members of your base who believe him to be somebody you should not normalize are wrong? >> if a successful president means that he expands the affordable care act, then sure, we want to be a part of that. but he's coming to us because he doesn't have republicans to go to and the democrats right now have the energy and the base

behind us in the country. that's just how it is. so we're in a very strong bargaining position and we should relish that. >> all right. congressman eric swalwell, thank you so much, greatly appreciate you being with us. >> my pleasure. >> all right. be careful with the hot mikes on the house floor. let's bring in filmmaker ken burns. we'll get to his sweeping new documentary project in just a moment. but, ken, you obviously are working and about to release the vietnam war, which is the most sweeping thing you've done. it was a time where everything was brought into sharp relief. >> exactly. >> what it meant to be an american, what it meant to protest, all of these things, fundamental re-examined time and time again. i've heard people say well, maybe this time, maybe post-9/11 might have been a time, but doesn't it seem that we are now

in the moment, the first moment since, let's say, 1968, where this entire country is re-examining what the american project is? >> so turn it on its head and mark twain is famous for saying history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes. think about the rhymes of today. mass demonstrations taking place all across the country against the current administration. about a white house obsessed with leaks, in total disarray, about a president is certain the news media is lying about him and making up stories about huge document drops of stolen classified material into the public sphere that destabilizes the conventional wisdom, about asymmetrical warfare confounding the mighty might of the military and ak saviccusations that a pol campaign reached out to a foreign power to alter that campaign. all of those things were true when we began work on this project ten years ago, but they

are resonating with more kind of urgency now that we are in the present situation. and it tells you, again, how central the vietnam war story is to our present moment. it's the most important event in the united states since the second world war. if we don't know happened then, we can't get to the heart of the hyperpartisanship of today. >> so let's look at -- this is "the boston globe." american tragedy, american epic. it talks about this being your most ambitious and darkest series yet. why is it your darkest series yet? >> i'm not sure it is. obviously unlike the civil war or world war ii, the films that my co-director and i have tackled before, those are obvious redeeming features. you end slavery, you reunite the country, you end fascism, but this one doesn't have an obvious redeeming factor. we interviewed a north vietnamese soldier who said when he was in the north vietnamese army he saw the protests that

they used as propaganda to instill morale, as a sign of our weakness. he said seeing the film now i realize that was a sign of your strength. i wasn't allowed to protest. i had to accept the party line or be in a re-education camp or worse. so this may be a time the american people rose up and said this is not working for us, we need to change things, and they elected officials who did just that. >> you know, it's fascinating, you said something about this documentary about vietnam. if meacham were here, he'd say we can't understand who we are today without understanding the french-indian war first. i'm joking, john. >> he's right, though. >> when you say that about vietnam, some people may roll their eyes. when i first started running for public office, i was 29 years old. i knocked on 10,000 doors. but after the first day, somebody asked me, they said, you know, basically what did you learn out there today? because it's something knocking on doors all day.

i said i learned that it is not 1994, it is actually 1968. and i also learned you are either on john wayne's side or you are on jane fonda's side. i said that in 1994. it was no great insight of mine. i saw that by knocking on maybe 50 doors in one day. >> it's still now. >> it all went back to the vietnam war. you're either john wayne or jane fonda. that's still the case today. >> and the thing is that we have had 42 plus years since the fall of saigon of extraordinary new scholarship that has upended was. by 1959, hard liners were calling the shots who designed the ted offensive in '68 and an offensive in '64 and johnson didn't even hear his name, let alone understand his centrality until '66.

saying there's a hard liner as mcnamara tells him in one of the taped telephone calls is like saying that water is wet. so this goes -- we didn't even know who our enemy was. we didn't know the culture of the people we were fighting and more importantly we didn't know the culture of the people we were supposedly defending. >> let's play a clip from the 18-hour documentary on the vietnam war. >> on september 2nd, 1945, the same day the japanese formally surrendered, hundreds of thousands of vietnamese streamed into hanoi to see for the first time the mysterious leader of the vietnam and hear him proclaim vietnam's independence. with an oss officer standing nearby, ho chi minh began with the words of thomas jefferson. all men are created equal.

they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. >> extraordinary. katty kay is in d.c. and has a question. katty. >> ken, i was in vietnam a year ago and was standing in hanoi and looking at these store fronts and there was louis vitton and gucci and i was thinking what would american gis have thought if they knew north vietnam would become a temple of capitalism and a commitment to all of the things that americans hold dear. and it's just the irony of it is so extraordinary. >> it is exquisite and painful at the same time. i remember as a kid growing up hearing at age 15 that if we'd given every vietnamese $600,000, which would have been a good stake at becoming a junior

capitalist, we would have spent less money than what we spent in vietnam not succeeding and converting them to our brand of things. but you know what, we have great relations with them. they're incredibly dedicated to us. we love to go back there. it's an amazing thing. but what's going on is that we're still conflicted about the war. it's unfinished business for us. most of us are in our hardened silos with certain opinions, more or less arguments that just don't work out. gee, if we'd only taken our pitcher out in the sixth inning instead of the seventh we would have won that game. maybe, but that's not the way you talk about this war. but they're conflicted too. they haven't reconciled with the people in the south as much. the losers of that war, the people who lost a country. and they're beginning to wonder whether the cost of it was worth it. they lost 3 million people because they said their leader said we will not count the costs, and so they sent their whole generation to the slaughter and they're wondering now, as we are wondering about

it, could we have done something different. so it's funny that we've reconciled between the two countries and they are, katty, very entrepreneurial. you know, 75% of the population was born after 1975 in the fall of saigon, but they're curious about what happened. >> when we think about the presidents, we link about lbj and nixon, but jfk, where is jfk in all of this? >> he starts off as a young congressman who's opposed to any intervention but then grav taits as his own ambitions go. and you begin to see that all the major decisions about vietnam are based on domestic political considerations, which is a polite way of saying will i be re-elected. by the time he's assassinated in dallas, there's 17,000 advisers and his foreign policy apparatus marz over into the johnson administration and plows us into the boots on the ground and even

further involvement. he starts off against it. by the time he's a senator with greater ambitions, he like the vice president of the united states, richard nixon, like the great leader of the senate, lyndon johnson, they are for it. >> speaking about nixon, also talk about history rhyming, that little anecdote about nixon and the war as part of the collusion. >> we're talking about whether the trump campaign consciously worked with russia to influence this election. richard nixon on the eve of the 1968 election, when humphrey was beginning to come up and perhaps overtake him and johnson had announced that there was positive progress in the peace talks reached out to the south vietnamese government and said, hey listen, even though he and kissinger knew that they had to get out, you'll get a better deal from us than you will from humphrey, so south vietnam, johnson found out about this, called up dirksen and said this is treason. dirksen says yes, it is.

nixon calls in for johnson and says i would never do anything like that. he said okay, that's good, dick, but he was lying, johnson knew it. the word never got out and he lost by 0.7 of a percentage point. >> it was 1968 that you're talking about, which is such a pivotal year in american politics and the shaping of the conscience of the country. you didn't know 1968 was 1968 until much later. to that extent, you see a lot of parallels between this time and then. is this a 1968? and will we know it in 20 years? >> they thinking about even the bombing in london today, there were hundreds of bombings in the united states, hundreds during this vietnam period. i would argue that as someone who lived through ''68 and was very much aware, by the time you had mccarthy challenging johnson, by the time johnson pulls out, by the time martin luther king is assassinated, by the time bobby kennedy is assassinated, by the time the

soviets invade czech -- you realize the world might be ending. i'm talking about mostly the united states but it's happening in paris. this is the world -- our episode is called things call apart from the william butler poem that bobby kennedy cites in "the new york times" editorial, the center cannot hold. at the time, donny, you know, and we felt like, wow, i don't know if this american system is going to survive. >> anybody that's too young to remember, i'd strongly recommend just look at the wikipedia entry for 1968. look at the things -- >> ted white's book is good as well. >> look at all the things that happened in 1968. >> that's right. >> i remember one of my first memories was in june of '68. i would have been 5 years old at the time. i remember my grandmom, we were from atlanta, georgia, we

weren't huge kennedy fans, but i remember my grandmother staring, still remember it, at the tv set after bobby kennedy was assassinated. and the look on her face was like no look i had ever seen before. and i still remember to this day, it still gives me chills today. it was horrifying because there was something about bobby kennedy's assassination after that six-month run of chaos. and that's even before chicago. that was even before chicago. >> this is episode 6 and 7. that will be a week from sunday and a week from monday. things fall apart and the veneer of civilization, these two episodes are essentially the year '68. as filmmakers, we were a tiger by the tail. we just had to hang on and just be pulled into this maelstrom. >> the yates poem is overused. i was going to use it today and

ruth marcus said, oh, it's so overused. it applies to 1968. read yates' poem. it applies so much to 1968. >> and bobby kennedy cited it in a "new york times" editorial and that gave us the license to do it. >> to the extent the cultural divisions that were made, it seems like they're driving cultural divisions we have today. >> exactly. i have a gi that says vietnam drove a stake through the heart of america and we've never recovered. i've got a pilot who went on to become the head of the air force during the first gulf war but he's a crack fighter pilot. he said all these things were coming together. you had the anti-war protest, the civil rights, the women's movement, the environmental movement and you had the best rock 'n' roll ever produced ever and our soundtrack is "to die for," beatles, the whole thing, and he said i just turned the volume up on this. he saw this, what he was fighting for even, as the

expression of the ability of an american republic to tall rate these divisions and to move forward just as those of us who see the present moment as a glass half full, see the opportunity to test the institutions that matter. the congress -- i was talking to congressman schiff, or all the various things, the judiciary, the intelligence, you know, the media has stepped up in the last year or so and said, look, we're not going to be bullied. >> you know, ken, this actually is -- you're so right. and i'm sick and tired and have been sick and tired, and i've written about it before, people on the left, when there's a republican president saying this is the worst ever. our constitution will not survive it. then when barack obama is present, all my relatives say this is the worst thing ever, america will not survive it. i've spent my entire adult life telling people, it's going to be okay. america is strong. and if you don't believe that, watch this and look what happened in 1968.

and we came through it strong. >> i got supporters from the left and the right and everything in between. we had an enlightened corporation bank of america who said, sure, dive into this controversial subject. that's what americans do. we're not afraid of ideas.ideas. why are we now so afraid of ideas that we can't just discuss '68 and now? >> that's what we were talking about this morning, we shouldn't be scared of ideas. we should, again, debate them. anyway, the vietnam war. a ten-part documentary from film makers ken burns and len novak, prior s premieres this sunday o cbs. and go sox. >> and indians. >> coming up next, from kennedy to watergate, journalist salaly quinn has seen a lot in washington. first, we're going to go live to the white house where nbc's peter alexander tells us what to watch for today in washington. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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yeah, i got some financialbody guidance a while ago. how'd that go? he kept spelling my name with an 'i' but it's bryan with a 'y.' yeah, since birth. that drives me crazy. yes. it's on all your email. yes. they should know this? yeah. the guy was my brother-in-law. that's ridiculous. well, i happen to know some people. do they listen? what? they're amazing listeners. nice. guidance from professionals who take their time to get to know you. bp developed new, industry-leading software to monitor drilling operations in real-time, so our engineers can solve problems with the most precise data at their fingertips. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.

that's why a cutting edgeworld. university counts on centurylink to keep their global campus connected. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. let's go to the white house now. peter alexander. what's going on today? love and happiness again between republicans and democrats? >> every friday, you can count on love and happiness here at the white house. he heads up to his property up in new jersey this friday ahead

of the united nations general assembly next week. he's got a series of items on his schedule. he'll get his daily intelligence briefing today. he'll learn more details about that london terror attack he's been tweeting about already this morning. has a couple of meetings scheduled. another with bob corker that's notable. it's the first time the two will meet face-to-face since that sort of public spat. corker basically questioning the president's stability and competence in terms of his ability to lead. but he's been more kind to the president in recent days. the president, remember, pushed back on twitter, saying that tennessee was not happy with its senator. he'll also hold a conference call with some jewish leaders today in advance of the jewish high holy day. some groups have already said they'll boycott that call. and the president when he heads to joint base andrews today, joe, is also going to be there to see an air demonstration by the air fleet as he celebrates the 70th anniversary of the air force. he'll meet with some military

families as well. a full day as he prepares to end the week, back to you. >> nbc's peter alexander. we greatly appreciate it. with us now, "washington post" columnist sally quinn. her latest book is entitled "finding magic, a spiritual memoir." first, i want to talk about your really moving column about ben, ben bradley. and, you know, i've got a mom that has dementia. you do see them slowly, slowly slip away and stop being the person that you grew up with and knew for so long. in your case, though, it's much harder to deal with a public figure when people look at him. they still call him. they still expect him to be the great man that he was his entire life. and you're walking on eggshells. day and night. >> you know, he was diagnosed eight years before he died. we were together 43 years.

and i didn't tell anybody because -- and neither did he because i just knew that it would be -- it would change our lives. finally, it became so clear he was talking to a group of executives, ceos in new york, john mechum, i'm so sorry he's not here because my book is dedicated to john. he was interviewing ben and ben couldn't remember any of the answers. even when he took over the editorship of "the washington post." and halfway through, he looked down at me in the audience and said, sally, help me. i realized then that we couldn't hide it any more. and so for the last two years of his life, we were really out there and it was -- i have to say that i was really lucky that ben always knew who i was. >> that is great. >> and he didn't lose his ben-ness, you know? i mean, he was still feisty and still giving people the finger up until the last few days of his life. >> that's a good thing.

>> that was a good thing. >> so -- >> but that time, even though it was horrible and sad, it was a time when we were probably happier then we've ever been together and i was more in love with him the day he died then i was the day -- >> we're going to make a management decision. i want to keep talking about ben and this column and we'll play this on monday, this part of the interview on monday. so you say you're more in love with him on the day he died than any other time, tell us about that. >> well, you know, you don't expect this to happen. but there was a moment, well, when we first -- when he first started changing, he became hostile toward me and angry as i later learned is the case with people with dementia. and i was the person he loveled t loved the most. we went to a shrink. ben would say, i never said those things to her. i love her.

why would i talk to her that way? i thought he was gaslighting me because he had said them. well, of course, it turned out he didn't remember saying any of that stuff. and so toward the end, he turned just completely the other way. loving. he was dependent. i mean, ben was the alpha male and the idea of being dependent on anyone, particularly a woman, particularly his wife, was just an anathima. he gave into it and let me take care of him. toward the end, i had to shower him and get him dressed. he didn't know how to brush his teeth anymore. but he let me do it and he let me do it with humor and with love. and so when he allowed me to do that for him, i realized that -- you want to talk about the meaning of life and i had to figure out the meaning of life in the last two months before the book came out because i was on deadline. but the meaning of life was what could be more meaningful than taking care of someone you love.

>> yes. sally, thank you so much for being with us today. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and sharing that. which is helpful i think for so many people who are going through what you went through and what our family's been going through. that does it for us this morning. all ali velshi picks up the coverage. >> good morning, i'm ali velshi in for stephanie ruehl. breaking news, a terrorist incident right at the height of this morning's rush hour. this picture of the device planted on a train was just obtained by nbc's investigations unit. i've got a great team with me to help break this all down. i want to start though in london with nbc's kelly cobia. what's latest? >> good morning. you can still hear the helicopters overhead and there's a very wide police presence around this tube station in london