president trump is on a crusade to kill regulations, but from consumer protection to flood damage, just this week we saw two big reasons why regulations exist. and companies can't find workers to take their new collar jobs, why is that? why community colleges and not four-year colleges may hold the answer to that problem. plus, a special guest host on this week's "velshi & ruhle." good afternoon, i'm ali velshi, stephanie is on assignment but we have a special

guest host this week. i'm so excited to be joined by katherine rampell, a columnist for "the washington post" who focuses on economics. she was formerly an economics reporter and editor at "the new york times." we've been on tv together but it's fun to have you here as a guest host this week. >> thanks for having me. >> we've got a lot to talk about and a lot of issues that you know particularly well. let's start with equifax. it's being called the biggest data breach in u.s. history and it affects all of us. that's why we want to start there. hackers grab the personal data of 143 million americans. that's more than half the adult population of the united states. stored on servers at equifax. that's a consumer credit rating firm, one of the three big ones. now, we're talking about everything, names, addresses, social security numbers, birth dates, driver's license numbers, all that a cyber thief needs to steal your identity and wreak havoc on your credit. at least three federal agencies and 40 states have opened probes into the breach. now congress is calling for

hearings. but before the hack, lawmakers had been getting ready to pass a bill, believe it or not, that protected credit bureaus by capping how much they could pay out in penalties for harming consumers. now, katherine, these credit bureaus are an interesting beast. we don't really have choices about using them. we don't choose them. they collect all of our information on a daily basis and they profit from it. >> yes, there's a totally fundamental asymmetry in power between these credit bureaus and consumers, right? you cannot opt out. you cannot decide that you don't want them to hold on to your social security number and your credit info and whether you've paid your bills. you can't -- it's often very difficult to get them to correct the record when they make mistakes and you can't vote with your feet and say i don't want to deal with you anymore. >> they have got the power, they have all the information they collect on us whether we like it or not, and their basic responsibility is to use that information to get help you get credit.

they make their money elsewhere. what's happened since this breach as occurred is we found out a number of things. one is they knew about it a long time ago. >> yes. >> key executives sold stock in the days right after this happened. now, there are reasons why someone might have sold stock. often company executives can sell stock on a regular scheduled basis. but it does bring up a lot of questions. did they know about this, why did they sell that stock. and if they didn't know about this breach two days later, it begs the question about what kind of company is this where they wouldn't have known. >> absolutely. the issue was there was this open source software that he were using that had identified this bug i think back in march an told users of the software that they needed to put in a patch. so whatever happened, it looks really bad for equifax. it looks like they did not do what they were supposed to do and now they're not exactly helping consumers who are having trouble getting ahold of them and putting freezes on their credit and whatnot.

>> i was mentioning this bill in congress that is there to limit the exposure that these credit reporting agencies have if they do something wrong. first of all, there are a lot of members of congress who are trying to do the right thing here. they're trying to get more information. they have asked the ceo and senior executives of the company to testify before congress. but check out these ten people. these are members of congress linked to big three credit bureaus who took campaign donations from them. they are all part of the group that is looking to pass this legislation to make it easier on credit bureaus as they move forward. i don't know where that bill is going to go now that this has happened, but this is an example of sometimes we have too much regulation, sometimes we have regulation that's unduly hard on businesses. but in financial services with your financial information, this is probably one of those areas where we want good, smart regulation and not less of it. >> absolutely. there's in view that there's too

little regulation or too much regulation. what you meant is regulation that passes the cost benefit test and i'm not sure that this does. >> we'll keep an eye on that. we have another interesting topic about the type of regulation that you want. in the wake of two category 4 hurricanes, florida and texas are rebuilding areas damaged by the storms. but two weeks before the storms hit a common sense regulation that should have guided future rebuilds was washed away by president trump. citing the need for a quicker approval process. >> we're going to get infrastructure built quickly, inexpensively relatively speaking and the permitting process will go very, very quickly no longer will we tolerate one job-killing delay after another. >> you may remember that press conference. that was the famous press conference in which the president talked about many sides and good people on both sides of the charlottesville event, which is why that particular comment didn't get the attention it deserved about

regulations. but with rising water levels affecting large parts of the country in inland rivers to coastal areas, it is not insensitive to ask how to better build structures that can withstand floods. so for fact sake, don't some regulations actually help? >> president trump has been quick to put u.s. regulations in the crosshairs. within days of taking office, he ordered federal agencies to kill two regulations for every new one they propose. and then he ordered agencies to evaluate and reform regulations already on their books. in august, just weeks before hurricanes harvey and irma hit, he nixed something called the federal flood risk management standard. the obama era rule ordered all federally funded infrastructure projects, including roads, bridges and hospitals, to adopt stricter standards for withstanding floods. but president trump says they're too costly and overly burdensome. yet mounting scientific evidence from the government itself

suggests that floods are becoming more frequent, more intense and more widespread. coastal flooding of the kind we saw in flooding and texas as well as less damaging nuisance events have shot up by as much as 900% since the 1960s. between 1980 and 2013, u.s. floods caused more than $260 billion in damage, more than any other kind of natural disaster. stricter flood standards come with additional construction costs. 1.25% more according to the obama administration. and building trade groups say those increased costs could be passed on to everyday americans. but a study by the national institute of building sciences suggests every dollar of upfront investment saves $4 in the long run. that's because it costs more to rebuild damaged roads and bridges after a flood event than to build them to withstand the damage to begin with. slashing the number of regulations out there shouldn't be an end unto itself. instead, we should focus on the policy objectives we want to

achieve with every new regulation we enact. building infrastructure that can withstand natural disasters should be one of them. this is about engineering, not about politics. >> yeah, i mean it's just bizarre. the government should not be building buildings under water or that will foreseeably be under water. >> there are some people who are still a little puzzled about what the role of climate change is, but nobody should be puzzled about being able to take a ruler over the side of the banks in new york city or in miami and realize that over the last 30 or 40 years, the water level has risen. there's a rate at which it's rising and it's going to rise more. >> yes. the maps that some of these building codes are based or are decades out of date. they're decades out of date. i think the real key here is that trump himself is a builder. he talked about this in the conference. the press conference. and he is sensitive to the fact that this puts more of a burden on builders if they're going to

adhere to these higher -- these stricter standards that are more flood proof. so we're socializing the costs of having lousy building or at least poorly planned building in order to basically subsidize these private donors. >> on the other end it's the public pushrse. new data shows that 2016 was a milestone year for u.s. households. median income rose to just over $59,000 a year. that means half made more than that, half made less than that. that's the highest number since 1999 adjusted for inflation. now, at the same time, the poverty rate fell slightly to 12.7% of the population. that's about where it was before the great recession hit. now, these numbers are really interesting to me when you put them into perspective. the stock market hit its prerecession high in october of 2007. two months later the stock

market fell along with u.s. wages. they hit a low point, the bottom of the market was march 2009. now, it took us until 2013 to get those stock markets to regain all of their recession losses. it's been climbing ever since march of 2009. for most americans they only recovered the economic ground they lost in wages. now, in 2015 and 2016 -- >> that's why there's a lot of frustration out there. >> it tells you how bad it was. so many people lost jobs that there was no way to soak up that excess capacity. so we're only now back on the road to recovery. >> we basically filled in the hole of the great recession, but we don't want to just be sort of treading water. we want to be better off than we were in 1999 and actually if you look at the numbers for individual workers, they look way worse. so it's not only a story about the great recession, why people

are frustrated about their incomes, if you look at median full-time year-round working men, they are earning about as much today or 2016 as they were in 1972 in inflation adjusted terms. >> this is incredible. look at that line. and if you went back before that, you'd see the continuation of the upward slope. in around 1972, when you adjust for inflation, it has been steady. median earnings, half of all men earn more and half earn less, for full-time males, look at that. that is the frustration so many americans feel. when we talk about stock market records and how well they're doing and unemployment under 5%. >> they're not feeling it. >> there are households who are saying it doesn't feel any different than it has for the last 30 or 40 years. that's incredible. >> absolutely. we're going to take a break and talk about the controversy around daca. some trump supporters are claiming deporting the

d.r.e.a.m.ers will boost job openings for americans. millions of jobs are waiting to be filled. a four-year college degree may not be enough to get one. if you stay tuned in, you get to see me in the flight deck of an aircraft. >> it's very impressive. i've seen it. ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams

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been trying to prepare for this day... and i'm still not ready.

the reason i'm telling you this is that there will be moments in your life that... you'll never be ready for. your little girl getting married being one of them. ♪ ♪ welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." president trump talked a big game about jobs during the campaign and now that we're eight months into his presidency, people are expecting him to deliver on those promises. labor leaders recently threatened to turn workers against the president if he doesn't make good on delivering jobs and renegotiating trade deals. but the fact is, there are millions of open jobs out there in america right now. they're just not the kind of jobs the president promised. there's a new sign on main street, "help wanted."

the labor department now reporting that a record 6.2 million jobs are open. that's the highest number of job openings ever. but across america, 7 million are unemployed, so what gives? blame the new digital world. you see trump promised to bring back factory jobs. >> everything is going to be based on bringing our jobs back, the good jobs, the real jobs. they have left and they're coming back. >> in this new technological economy, those factories and production plants are gone. replaced by computers. but someone has to program and run those computers. enter the new collar job. jobs that don't require a four-year college degree but do require some training, usually in coding or computing. and that's where you get what economists call the skills gap. many of those 6.2 million open jobs fall into this gap. so companies desperate to hire are launching job training

programs of their own. this year toyota, boeing, general motors and dow chemical all starting or expanding programs. and in michigan, delta airlines is looking for maintenance workers for its planes. >> being a mechanic who works on airplanes is not dissimilar to the way it has been over past decades, but there are some really big changes, including in the electronics and technology that go into airplanes. that means to be an aircraft mechanic, you need to not only need to know the stuff you used to need to know but you've got to be much more technically minded than you were. delta says it can't find enough of those people. >> if we don't do something differently in delta to produce those mechanics of the future, we'll be struggling to be able to succeed. >> so delta is partnering with a community college in lansing, michigan, working with them on curriculum to ensure it gets the workers it needs with the kind of training they need. >> they are out here in our facility on a regular basis evaluating our program, offering suggestions on how we can improve, evaluating our facility

in terms of safety compliance, regulatory compliance, all of the things that delta does in their operation, they expect us to do as well. >> your mechanics are sort of tech workers. >> they're tech workers. you've got to go from one extreme to the other. you've got to know what manuals i go into to find what's going on with the aircraft. how do i troubleshoot it. you've got to be able to do that from a very nontechnical aircraft all the way up to our latest a-350. >> today these students are enrolling in the lansing program. when they graduate, they are nearly guaranteed a job as an airline mechanic with a starting salary of $50,000 a year. >> there are students now looking at multiple job offers even before they graduate. >> job offers these students are hoping to accept soon. >> i'm in the program, so i'm learning exactly what they want me to learn at the same time. so i just -- i don't know, i think it's pretty astonishing. >> i have a brother-in-law that graduated from this program. he has a wonderful job now. i'm excited, i really am.

it will be a blast. >> giving americans looking for work a new way to soar. >> it's an interesting concept. instead of training the people yourself, find the programs where people are enrolling where you know that you can call and help them develop their training programs. they'll come work for you. >> it's a great example of a public-private partnership. i do think it's interesting, though, that the training is going on outside of the company, right? like a few decades ago, a couple of generations ago, the companies would have been investing and training that talent themselves. i looked up some numbers on this. in 1979 young workers got an average of two and a half weeks of training per year. around 1995, various surveys found that the average amount of training workers got per year was under 11 hours. so two and a half weeks to under 11 hours and it was mostly about safety, not about investing in skills. and then by 2011, about a fifth

of employees -- only a fifth of employees reported getting any training. >> i was tempted to get into that program. they said after five years the salary is over $100,000 and all the travel you can have as an employee, so it was kind of an interesting program. >> yeah. we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we're going to talk about the d.r.e.a.m.ers. some say the president's decision to rescind daca will boost job openings for americans. are they right? we're going to fact check that. and health care slogans versus real policy change. you've probably all heard about medicare for all, but is that just an empty promise like repeal and replace? we'll talk about that next. ps se diamondclean. hear the difference versus oral b. in a recently published clinical study, philips sonicare diamondclean outperforms oral-b 7000, removing up to 82% more plaque and improving gum health up to 70% more. its sonic technology cleaning deep between teeth. from the most recommended sonic toothbrush brand by dental professionals. switch to philips sonicare today.

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welcome back. it looks like health care is back on the agenda again in washington after attempts to undo obamacare stalled badly this summer. now there are two very different bills competing for attention in congress. there are actually a few more, but these are the two that you need to know about. the first one is the

cassidy/graham/heller/johnson plan. this has to come up before the end of september in order to pass with 50 votes. it gives money to states in bloc grants to create whatever health care system they want. on the other side we've got the bernie sanders medicare for all plan. it would create a federally run single payer health care system to cover all health care costs. it would phase in over four years. it would be paid for through income-based premiums and significant changes to the tax code, primarily higher taxes on the wealthy. this bill has zero chance of passing a republican congress. it does have a surprising amount of democratic support. >> especially relative to the last time. >> what do you think of it? >> well, we don't actually know how it would be paid for. it doesn't say in the bill and i think that's my biggest problem

with it and many other critics' problems with it which is that there's no courage in saying everybody deserves health care. everybody agrees with that. the courage is in staking out a plan to pay for it. right now this to me is a signaling exercise to say, hey, the left, we're with you and we want to prove our progressive bona fides. >> is there a possibility there's something in between those two could work? >> absolutely. there are a lot of incremental changes you could make that would help get more health care to the public. of course incremental changes to the health care system doesn't sound quite as sexy. >> not as good a campaign slogan. despite president trump's back and forth on daca this week, the program may be in jeopardy. one of the prominent talking points coming out of the white house about daca and the larger immigration issue is that american jobs are at risk. in an article this week breitbart made a similar argument saying they hold upward

of 700,000 u.s. jobs. it would result in a 700,000 job stimulus for american workers. this would amount to nearly 30,000 new u.s. job openings for american workers every month once the program is officially phased out. it reads well, katherine, but the economy is a very dynamic thing. that's not really a good reflection of how jobs work in america. >> not at all. they refer to this as the lump of labor fallacy. the idea there's a fixed amount of work and you can spread it over fewer people or more people. no, when you have more workers, they create economic activity in a sense. >> they make money, they spend money, they create demand. >> exactly. beyond that, the united states has major demographic challenge, not quite as bad as japan but we have demographic challenges that suggest that we want more working age people coming here, i.e. immigrants. so sending all these people home will not help with that problem. >> great to have you here. thank you for spending this half an hour with us on "velshi &

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the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. hey there, everyone, i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is 1:00 in the east, 10:00 a.m. out west and here's what's happening. unrest in st. louis the day after. concerns over safety force a global super band to cancel tonight's major concert. sign of the times, protesters on each end of the political spectrum going face to face. >> you have become the swamp and either drain the swamp or you will never make america great again. your move. >> feeling burned. ignited anger among trump supporters over the president's party and police nab