♪ a dell advisor can help you choose the right products with powerful intel® core™ processors. ♪ hour on msnbc live. i'm alex witt. thank you so much for watching. i'll see you tomorrow morning at 9:00 eastern. >> good to be with you at home. hello, everybody. from msnbc headquarters in new york. demonstrations in d.c. message of america first in what organizers call the mother of all rallies. how protesters hope to push the president's agenda as some of the commander in chief's core supporters cry foul over his dinner with democrats. in st. louis, thousands have taken to the streets to protest the equacquittal of a white pol

officery shooting of a black man. u2 canceled their concert saying police couldn't provide security while dealing with those demonstrations. president trump quickly condemning terrorists hours after a bombing in london, even criticizing the investigators overseas. his response in stark contrast to the reaction following the deadly attack in charlottesville, virginia. we begin today with the protests in the streets of washington, d.c. our nation's capital. playing host to conversions of rallies this afternoon. supporters speaking out in the mother of all rallies aimed at boosting president trump's america first agenda. that's sparked outrage from far right supporters over the president's recent negotiations with democrats on the daca program and border wall. also the march on fans, fans of the hip-hop duo insane clown posse protest the fact they have been unfairly targeted by the fbi. it is for their support of the group whose lyrics feature

violent imagery. joining me live from washington, d.c., nbc's mike viqueira. mike, it looks peaceful so far. has it been? >> reporter: well, you're right. frances, when you talk about core supporters, they are definitely here for president trump. they're all stressing unity. i think that this is sort of a ba backlash among many of those conservative supporters against what happened in charlottesville. the very first person that took the stage today said there is no alt-right or alt-left here. they are stressing the dwes ivey of this crowd. they have very much in favor of president trump's agenda. the few people i've interviewed today, all feel as though they still support the president notwithstanding some of the criticism he's gotten from a lot of conservative pundits, particularly on the issue of daca. having said that, there are a smattering, relatively few, counterprotesters here, not as many as you might imagine. i am standing next to a

gentleman here who is making reference to charlottesville with his sign and an anti-trump t-shirt here as well. just a few minutes ago, there were a group of very young individuals with black bandanas around their faces. i spoke were them briefly on the fringes of this rally. >> they're not the ones who are getting -- there is this phenomenon where people post people's information online, their faces to publicly harass them. that doesn't really happen to them. it happens to us. antifa is just a tactic. it is not even a group of people. it is a mind set. we're not running down people with cars. the worst that's probably happened with antifa is probably drawing. >> i have to stress, frances, again the people here who organized this rally are going out of their way to emphasize that this -- has nothing to do with white supremacy as we saw in charlottesville. matter of fact, they've banned confederate flags.

they've shooed them off. foreign flags or communist flags are banned as well. there is a conscious effort to find those trump supporters without some of the ugliness we've seen at previous rallies. >> mike, thank you. want to bring in our panel now, raul reyes. geolina maxwell. rachel brevard, and msnbc contributor charlie savage, the washington correspondent at "the new york times." all of you, thanks for being with me. charlie, trump supporters showing outrage over the president teaming up, reaching out with the democratic leaders, nancy pelosi, chuck schumer, over this potential daca resolution here. you consider that move. does it bring about the possibility of alienating some of his base as some have suggested? or are they so die-hard trump that even this isn't going to faze them? >> that's the more interesting question in politics right now, is if we see president trump

making more deals with democrats, of course he is confronting and he's complained about it on twitter, the fact that the senate has a filibuster rule and that means that at least democrats are going to have to come along with any kind of ma i juror legislation that passes congress. if he has to work with democrats to get over that hurdle so he can get things done. he likes to get things done and make deals. that's going to pull him away from an ideologically pure position. if this isn't just a one-time birth but sort of a new pivot for him, it is going to be alienating to the more ideologically conservative base. the question is do the hard-core trump supporters -- the 38% of americans who give him positive job approval ratings come with him? is that a movement that's about trump as a person or if he starts to shift his views will they abandon him and that will have major repercussions over the next year or two in politics? >> you also have that's hard-cores who very much listen to donald trump's high-profile supporters. of course they listen to what they have to say.

supporters like ann coulter who put it out there, saying pretty much, tweeting at this point, who doesn't want trump impeached? then you have breitbart saying amnesty don. how do those play in to this sentiment there? i want to bring in rachel for that. >> you know, i think it just represents that the conservative movement is not monolitic. i think what you're saying based on the march on the mall today is that president trump remains popular with his base. a "wall street journal" poll just last week showed 98% of voters who voted for trump in the primary still support him. i think a lot of people see through kind of what's happening with the deals with democrats and they realize president trump likes to make a deal. he likes to get things done and the reality is, leadership in -- the republican leadership in congress cannot get their act together, cannot give him anything. so of course he is moving to democrats. give him a conversation solution and he'll take it. but republicans in congress need to get their act together. >> get their act together. speaking to that, here's house

speaker paul ryan during a radio interview yesterday. >> we will not, in good conscience, fix a symptom of a problem without dealing with the root cause of the problem. i think democrats get that. now they'll have to stomach the fact that, yes, this president will be successful in doing something that hasn't been done for years, which is advancing some immigration reform. if you're a politician and you're partisan and you don't want to see him be successful, that will be a tough pill to swallow. >> speaking to rachel and getting their act together, is that someone getting their act together? is there going to be a reaching from a paul ryan to the democrats? >> no. i don't anticipate that happening. but i also think it is quite rich to hear speaker ryan talk about immigration reform as if this hasn't been an issue since george w. bush was the president. and republicans used to be in support of comprehensive immigration reform. it is sort of the lurch towards the far right that's happened since george w. bush was president and during obama's

term when they ran away from comprehensive immigration reform. as you recall, the dream act came up for a vote during president obama's term and they voted it down. so i think that republicans do need to get their act together. i do agree with rachel on that but i think that -- i don't think there is any evidence that paul ryan is going to reach across the aisle and work with democrats. >> raul, what is the getting your act together? nbc news is saying, yes, they are working on working groups, to legislatively get something going when it comes to daca, when it comes to border security. at this point would you say of the party there is a fracture that it's not going to happen? >> it's very complicated right now because we're getting conflicting signals from the president, also from other lawmakers. but first of all we have to remember, this whole crisis is artificial, arbitrary and really manufactured by donald trump himself. though he has kicked the ball too congress, remember this was something he said he would decide. he caved in now so he himself is sort of pushing it off on congress. but this is the thing. when we talk about this move to come up with replace many for

daca, yes, the momentum may seem to be on the side of protecting these d.r.e.a.m.ers. but time is not. every day that passes we get closer to that six-month cut-off where daca will expire and democrats want to come up with a solution by, say, october 5th, because that's the last date to renew daca, where republicans say we have six months left. all of the really complicated work will be in what does the replacement for daca look like, will they get legal status, lawful presence or pathway to citizenship. what does border security mean. all the parties with stakes involved have a different idea of what's that going to mean. >> everybody has a different version of what it is going to mean. we're still trying to figure out if you have multtimulti-tier le of -- >> meantime these folks are living in fear. >> it is iconic seeing all these trump supporters out there, promoting this as something to defend traditional american culture, this large rally.

unless they're defending and promoting indigenous people or native americans, that in itself seems a little bit off the mark. >> rachel, since we are on the subject of daca here, do you see the president's position changing here when it comes to the dinner, what came out of the dinner on daca? where is it going to go? >> first, i totally disagree this is a manufactured crisis by president trump. we're here because president obama made an ill liam executive order and president trump's own department of justice couldn't defend it in court. these laws have to come from congress and trump was right to push it back to them and say, look, make this law. i think where conservatives come down on it is they say, we're compassionate and want to address these daca recipients, it is unreasonable to uproot someone's life and send them overseas. but conservatives have for a long time been the position of we want enhanced border security, we want to actually solve the problem, we want to stop these situations from happening in the first place. i think any solution is going to have to include those fundamental problem solving issues like border security before we can address anything else. >> here we are on a weekend,

going through the hurricanes, going through these meetings. then you have the democrats putting trump in kind of a different light here. you have axios calling it trump's new world in this article in which for the first time in his presidency he is enjoying positive media coverage and coherent reinforcement from his top aides. i'll throw in there positive being relative. i'm sure you can weigh in on that relativity. your thoughts on it. >> well, i think that we have to be a little bit careful as the media to not portray this as something more than it is yet. this is an early -- this is one meeting in which there is a deal maybe, but just an oral deal and people come out of it and they disagree even about what the deal was. nothing's gone through congress yet. the notion now we're seeing the new centrist president trump and everything's changed now and is the far right going to be betrayed by him, this is still a very conservative administration. it is still full of conservatives in places like the environmental protection agency and civil rights division,

justice department who have quite changed the way the government is enforcing the law. the judicial nominees president trump has put forward to congress are still very conservative lawyers and thinkers. and so one moment of one week looking like this for a president who likes to zig and zag and is not very predictable i think we still need to be calm here and wait and see how this develops before we pronounce this a new world. >> where is it going to take us this week? we have him -- u.n. security council as well talking. another week where we don't have the diversion of a hurricane. then daca, dot dot dot, hopefully. where do we go quickly? >> i don't know. depends what he tweets. depends what mood he's in when he wakes up. i think that's the danger of this president. what i'm afraid of is the inconsistency and the lack of the ability as the public to predict what he's going to do. >> right. i think a lot depends on basically the last person to speak with him. he is a little erratic but also keep in mind, these people who are coming out protesting a possible deal on daca, they are

loud but they are not a loud group of even trump voters because most trump voters according to polling, they favor some type of deal to allow these d.r.e.a.m.ers to stay. >> we'll watch that twitter feed and get the alerts. we all will. thank you. now to the uk. on alert -- why intelligence officials say there is still a significant threat after the arrest of an 18-year-old in an underground bombing that injured dozens. this as the prime minister responds to president trump's tweets about the ongoing investigation. we'll have a live report from london after the break. plus, no end in sight. protests in st. louis continue in the aftermath of the acquittal of a white police officer in the fatal shooting of a black man. how the city and the state is responding as demonstrations turned violent. ny will save liv. mr. stevens? this is your new name. this is your new house. and a perfectly inconspicuous suv. you must become invisible.

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it is a very significant arrest. but as i said, we are open-minded. if there are other people responsible, it is our job to find them. and that is part of the reason why we are remaining at critical at the moment. >> that was a spokesman for scotland yard just moments ago announcing the arrest of an 18-year-old man this morning in connection with the london subway attack. isis is claiming responsibility for the explosion that injured 29 people without providing any evidence for the claim. president trump denounced the terrorists as "losers" yesterday and he tweeted, "these are sick and demented people who are in the sights of scotland yard." the comment angered some british officials and it is not the first tweet to rile allies. earlier this year trump ignited a firestorm of controversy when he appeared to criticize london's mayor following a terror attack that killed seven. for more on this, we are joined by nbc's claudio lavanga.

>> we are getting more details about this ongoing investigation. we knew an 18-year-old man was arrested this morning, early this morning, but they gave us more interesting details like he was arrested that is perhaps a . they are investigating acts of terrorism. they also said they evacuated the port later on and found a number of unspecified items and they confirmed that later on they were searching a in surrey,

about an hour's drive from here and that is an ongoing investigation. as you heard from the sound bite you run, they still keeping the terror threat level to its highest, which is critical. i mean the authorities fear that an attack a imminent because they are keeping an open mind on the possibility that there are more people involved. talking about those tweets, frances, to say that the british authorities were not impressed by trump's allegation that the attackers were in the sight of scotland yard is really an understatement. now today britain's interior minister said it was too early to know whether the people behind the attack were known to the authorities, as the president suggested. and even more significantly, last night prime minister theresa may, who is rarely critical of donald trump, gave an interview in which she openly rebuked his claim. let's listen to what she had to say. >> i never think it is helpful for anyone to speculate on what is an ongoing investigation. as i have just said, the police and security services are

working to discover the full circumstances of this cowardly attack, and to identify all those responsible. >> after that tweet yesterday, trump called theresa may to offer his support but it is unclear whether they talked about the rowe he caused with it. it is unclear whether the claim of the president that the attackers were known to the police was based on intelligence he received? and in that case it was probably confidential. or if it was just an assumption. but as you mentioned, this is not the first time trump's tweets infuriate british authorities. in jaune following the attack o london bridge he openly criticized the mayor saying there was no reason to be alarmed. clearly doesn't seem to have deterred the president from causing yet another tweet storm, frances. >> we'll see if this latest one takes it further or where it goes from there. thank you. the russia probe widening. why the special counsel now focusing if on the son of one of trump's former advisors. keep it here on msnbc.

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. special counsel robert mueller's special investigation is widening. this week nbc news learned the son of former advisor mike flynn is under investigation in its connection to foreign governments. meantime for a former trump campaign chairman paul manafort testified for hours. adding to the inquiry, bloomberg reports mueller is taking a closer look into social media's role in russia's efforts to influence the 2016 election. prosecutors and fbi agents are looking at how russia spread fake information using facebook, twitter and other networks. want to bring in a former fbi double agent and author of "how to catch a russian spy."

and evelyn farkas, now senior fellow at the atlantic council. welcome to you both. starting with in investigation into michael flynn's son, we know how closely he worked with him, traveled extensively, including trips to moscow. what could mueller learn from talking to him? >> there is a couple of things. the first part here is it is important to know the context, that in fact the elder flynn at some point pushed for the younger flynn to get a security clearance which before jared kushner was unheard of. secondly, the younger flynn was also pushing this pizza gate, pushing these fake news conspiracy theories we saw floating out there. that's one part. the second part is the flynn intel group as a whole. michael flynn senior, there's a lot of allegations that he's had contact with foreign governments, he's taken money from turkey and a whole host of other people and subsequently has now registered as a foreign

agent. so there is that second part. where this crosses into the line of criminality is a big question. that being said to the other part of the story, the facebook part, is there potentially a connection between some of these visible public figures pushing these stories, and then we're seeing sort of potentially facebook and social media kind of reinforcing this narrative. >> it is interesting to see his role with the whole pizza gate, and even in this case. #nothingburger is i think what he was tweeting when it has to do with fake news. based on that, evelyn, i want to ask you about it, like the contact with foreign governments, money from turkey, acting as a foreign agent. when it comes to that and connections with it, what stands out to you the most? >> i am absolutely shocked that it looks like general flynn had meetings -- first of all, he had mightings he didn't declare on his form. he went -- he traveled to countries he didn't declare on his security form. that to me is somebody who worked 20 years in the government and you have to fill

out these forms regularly is agree just. it would have been grounds for immediate firing and of course taking away someone's security clearance. so first of all, that. second, it seems according to the reporting that we've seen now recently this week that he was also still pushing a deal to build 40 nuclear power plants across the middle east as part of a partnership with rosa borrone, which is the russian state defense entity which was under sanctions. so it is shocking to me that he could actually be sitting in the white house doing this kind of business which runs counter to our sanctions and the existing policy vis-a-vis russia. then of course, there is obviously a real red flag when it comes to his loyalty to the united states, et cetera. and misuse, of course, of office. >> we had the attention on elder and younger flynn. but also attention on manafort's spokesman who appeared in front of the grand jury just yesterday.

what's your take away from that as far as him showing up as a witness? >> i think there is an interesting thing. we also know that michael flynn is apparently refusing to testify in front of the congress. i think that we're starting to see progress being made in this. the question still is, where will the -- will there be criminal charges. look, you have this question of money laundering with be sort of these traditional sort of white-collar crimes. but do they intersect with russia? do they intersect with the 2016 election? at the end of the day, that's what the american public wants to know. there seems to be enough of a whiff of an odor here that there is criminal activity that occurred, but again, the question, does it connect to russia. that's really the $64,000 question. >> another $64,000 question over there is also this team that mueller's putting together. politico is reporting there is this other prosecutor who's been working on high-profile money laundering case for the justice department. he's being transferred to look into that. the other prosecutor is

described i tink hink who is kn for questioning when it comes to subjects that can turn on people. what does that tell you about where this investigation is going? >> i think it tells me that he's not just interested in the white-collar crimes. those are important. and he'll make sure that they're prosecuted. or, more importantly, he'll use them as leverage to get to the real nub of the issue, which is how did russia manage to interfere in our elections, and did russia do it with the active or unwitting assistance of american citizens, including the trump campaign. and this is something we need answered pretty urgently, actually, because we have elections coming up again in 2018. this is right around the corner. the russian elections are coming up. there is a lot internationally. we still don't have a set policy vis-a-vis russia. so i think the american people need these answers soon. >> you throw into that mix, adding to it, the whole social media aspect of it, too. you touched on it briefly. when it comes to that, what kind

of information can investigators retrieve from facebook, twitter and how much of these platforms and those social media venues will be reaching out to help them? >> well, this is an interesting question and very briefly, to sort of go back to what evelyn was saying, we all assume the russians were involved in meddling in our election. that seems to be the topic dujour. what we really need is concrete evidence and potentially -- potentially -- with social media, this can be traced back to an actual kremlin or russian operation, that would be sort of the missing link to sort of solidify and lay the concrete basis that in fact russia attempted to involve themselves in our election. i think with data perhaps there is a more less ambiguous way of being able to point that giant arrow back to russia than it would be to say perhaps cross examine or interview a witness. so hopefully there is some tangible evidence that can come from that. >> we are in a whole other world

when it comes to social media in that aspect. we're just "liking" back-to-school pictures here, guys. okay, thank you so much. protesters in st. louis target the mayor's home after a judge's decision to acquit a white police officer who shot and killed a black man during a high-speed chase. what the governor of missouri is saying about the continuing chaos in the city. and, espn at the center of a firestorm following one of its anchor's tweets about president trump. the network response is raising a whole lot of questions about how sports play into politics. oh, you brought butch. yeah! (butch growls at man) he's looking at me right now, isn't he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions. introducing the all-new crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek.

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welcome back. i'm frances rivera at msnbc world headquarters in new york. here's what we're monitoring. pro-trump supporters are hosting the mother of all rallies in the nation's capital aiming to boost the president's agenda. earlier in richmond, virginia, confederates marched.

a manhunt continues as london's terror threat has been raised to its highest level. yesterday an explosion injured nearly 30 people. north korea said today they would continue to develop their nuclear weapons program despite done demati condemnation and new sanctions from the international community. this comes just days after the rogue nation test fired a missile over japan before it landed into the pacific ocean. u2 canceled its concert scheduled for tonight in st. louis. the city's police department says it can't provide enough security amid concerns there will be more violent protests like these. this was the scene last night hours after a judge acquitted jason stockley, a white former police officer charged with murder in the shooting death of a black man. protesters damaged restaurants, a library and other businesses. they even targeted the mayor's house, breaking windows and throwing red paint. in all, 11 law enforcement officers were hurt in clashes last night. 32 people were arrested and

missouri's governor says police will continue to protect the public as well as peaceful protesters. >> we also made it very clear to people that if you riot, we're going to cuff you. you assault a law enforcement officer, we are going to arrest you. violence and vandalism is not protest, it is a crime. >> with us now, retired nypd detective and director of the black law enforcement alliance. also with me on set, glen martin, founder and president of just leadership susa. i appreciate both of you, your time. mark, you talk about st. louis. by these standards, we're prepared for protests. you had school postponing evening events last night. you had the missouri governor who held a news conference urging peace in the days before the decision. yet there was still violence. so, when we're rear-view mirroring something like this, you ask, could authorities have

done more to prevent what happened, at this point is it just a matter of being reactive to what happened? >> well, in reality, it's -- as painful as provocative as the verdict was and inciteful, in essence, it is quite predictable. time and time again there is a predictable pattern of outcome when it relates to cases that involve the individuals against law enforcement. although there is a lot of emotion on the streets, it was predictable. it was easy to plan for police. they've done it across the nation for several decades now. the protesters now have to find a new and innovative way in which to express themselves. we hope in a peaceful way. but there will be no peace without the justice. i think until it gets to a point people understand and recognize and respect the will of the general public in regards to police reform, overall criminal justice reform which is the forte of glen, these incidents

will continue and the response will continue, and we can expect the police presence and enforcement to continue. >> i want to take this into account with you, mark, in the same -- do you, glen, when we chat. when you say predictability, mark, this was a bench trial. do you think the outcome would have been any different if it had been a jury as well? or predictable on both sides? >> no, it is predictable. it is a predictable outcome. you have to look at the pattern over the years for decades, as i indicated, of cases that involve law enforcement who operate on the surface, by all appearances, even with video cameras, operate outside of the law, but somehow are given a consistent pass, whether it be juries or judges. there was a time at the nypd in new york that police officers who were on trial, or who were facing prosecution in the bronx, would never go with a jury trial. they would always go with a judge trial. and they found themselves getting off as often as we have seen over the past several

years. >> wow. >> this is a predictable pattern. and absent substantive, comprehensive criminal justice reform, which incorporates police reform, this is something that we can expect to see for decades to come. >> glen, you are nodding your head and saying predictability there. doesn't matter. bench trial, jury trial. >> total predictability. a lot of it has to do with how this information is presented to a jury. even if there were a jury. the fact of the matter here is that mark is absolutely right. ton of predictability. but it is hard to talk about the police without talking about our president. fact of the matter is we have a president who's not only given a wink and nod to white sprm supremacists in this country but has also essentially said to police officers it is okay to abuse suspects. here you have an officer who shows up with an ak-47, his own service revolver and allegedly a throw-away gun that ends up in the car with his dna on it. >> i want to bring you in as well, mark. when you look at the timeline and consider this

predictability, saying this has happened, we've seen it before, and all that's happened when it comes to racial tensions in community and policing and the strides made in trying to better that, look at the timeline. jason stockley was shot and killed. anthony lamar smith in december 2011. more than 2 1/2 years before police officers shot and killed michael brown in ferguson. why is this not getting the same attention we had with michael brown? i have glenn with me, mark. we'll get right to you. >> i think americans have become desensitized to this. i think a lot of americans don't realize that for some portion of americans, police officers are guardians. and for another portion of americans, police officers are warriors. essentially, i mean if you listen to even the judge's language in this case, the fact that he said that he's so surprised, it is an anomaly for an urban drug dealer to not have a gun. that's dog whistle language to suggest "urban" when what he

really means is black. >> urban heroin dealer not in possession of a firearm would be an anomaly. >> you have to read between the lines. essentially the judge is saying a black man in a car that allegedly just engaged in a drug deal must have a gun. >> mark, does it surprise you we are still at this point and why when it comes to the headlines when you hear these names and it doesn't have the same kind of familiarity as the others, to some? >> one, i think it is very clear at this point that there has been no substantive movement towards improving or correcting that which is wrong. and until the voices of the people, those people who are actually impacted directly by bad policing, bad criminal justice, bad prosecutions, until those voices are respected and listened to, and given the opportunity to have some input on changing the system, this will continue to happen time and time again. and regardless of the efforts that have been made -- and

they've been very subtle efforts made -- to really enforce a reform package that has been no substantive reform. as glenn pointed out, with this current administration, we're even in more dire circumstances with jeff sessions as the attorney general, which was unimaginable just a few years ago. but with jeff sessions as attorn attorney general and donald trump as president, there will be wholesale commitment to protecting, defending, giving the benefit of the doubt to, and really loosing the troops under the guise of public safety and it should not ever happen. and it is really a smack in the face of professional policing. >> to you both, we appreciate your time. you will both you watching what happens in st. louis tonight, as we will as well. thank you for your time and perspective. still to come, should tv personalities be punished for their personal views? there's definitely a precedent, but now one network is taking a stand after coming under fire.

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>> do you still stand by your

statement that it was a fireable offense. >> i do. >> that was white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders doubling down to fire gem elhill after had he called president trump a white supremacist on twitter this week. espn president sent a company wide e-mail to no one is told what view they must express. well, the memo came the same day president trump demanded an aapology from the sports network saying espn is paying a really big price for its politics and bad program. people are dumping it in bad numbers. apologize for untruth. brit any, right when i was reading that want only were you shaking your head you rolled right into this chuckle that you have right now. why is that? >> pause the om person who owes an apology here is donald trump

for his range of offensive views and the levels of snfrt and terror that he has used his position in the white house to do harm to our muslim citizens, our mexican sit dplens and certainly any -- >> you're just calling hypocrisy -- >> it's absolutely hypocrisy. she spoke the truth. and what we need is -- it's true that espn is a journalist outlook then journalists are supposed to help us get to the truth. >> we'll talk about that in a second. i want to bring up the initial tweet. she said donald trump is a white supremacist who is largely surrounded himself with other white supremacists. trump is the most ignorant offensive president of my lifetime. his rise is a direct result of white supremacy, period. so you heard from the white house that gem elhill's comments were a fireable offense. do you agree? >> no, no, they're chblt i've got to be honest, i teach at the school at morgan state university. we talk to you are on students all the time about journalist

integrity. we talk to them about honesty and prove ability everything that she said except for the fact that she says these are the worst president, these are all things that can be proven. none of this would be happening if it weren't for the fact that she's a woman, african-american, that she's speaking from a sports outlet. but the conversation that she's having and telling the world that donald trump is a white supremacist, that's something we talk about all the time because it's true. >> it's interesting you brought that up. do you think it would have been any different if she did not work for a sports network? people want to go and they want to see their headlines and scores and highlights and maybe that's not the reason they're watching cable news. >> the first problem is that sports has never been apolitical. and in this moment we're seeing sports teams taking sides colin kaepernick. this is the miami heat from a few years ago. this is even at the college level with the university of missouri football team in 2015, forcing the president out by

refusing to ply. so we're in a moment where sports is deeply political and espn should be driving that conversation rather than feeling like it's keeping it from doing its job. but, look, i think the sort of other point here is that -- like my problem is that why is the white house using its power to say that journalists and private citizens can't disagree with the president? that's really dangerous. it's want something that we should accept. i mean, it's clear vlgsz of the first amendment here. but it's an attempt to -- so it's also part of a larger attack that this white house has had on black women. so this didn't begin with gem elhill. this is also how they treated april ryan earlier this year. this is the treatment of their administration of maximum even waters. black women have been on the forefront of saying there's a problem with had this administration. and because of that they have really been the biggest victims of its push to repress any sort of dissent. >> it's also interesting how espn has gone about this as well especially with ha statement. jason, i want to bring you into

this. she said her views expressed were her personal beliefs and that she grets painting espn in an unfair light. they've accepted her apology. at this point why is it important forest peen to stand up for her? is it because of exactly what we're talking about right now, that they might be, you know, a bull's eye of a target if they don't? >> yeah. espn is a business and as a business they have to be concerned. but you also have to protect your employees. i actually thought that what she said was what else peen should have said from the beginning. thernd have said, hey, look, this is her personal opinion. we have to remember, this was something that gem yell hill said on her twitter hand that she had before she came to he is peep. if she said that in the middle of a michigan ohio state game, then we might say what does this have to do with ohio state. but she didn't. she was talking about it in the context of saying that shelves saying to twitter so that's what we have to remember. >> and let's bring in espn's statement here when it comes to that and further this discussion you have the president john skipper saying this.

we have issues of significant debate in our country at this time. given this reality we have social media policies which require people to understand that policy platforms are public and their comment of them will reflect espn at a minimum comments should not be inflammatory tore personal. we had a violation of these standards in recent days and our handling of this is in a private matter. i see you wanting -- >> this is the problem. why is calling out racism at the level of the presidency the inflammatory thing. our president inflames everyone. >> right. >> ininsights everyone. that is his mo and although some point -- loorks, we're not going to solve the problems of racism in this country if no one can say the truth because there becomes this sort of liberal belly aching that says we're offending the president, we're not respecting standards of -- >> here is the thing and i also have to say this. a lot of this also had to do with espn and i think a lot of businesses right now are

misinterpreting sports fan domestic. not only did hillary clinton win the popular vote, donald sterling lost his team two years ago just for saying something racist. ster typing the kind of people who watch football, baseball. this country is much more diverse in its sports appreciation than i think some of these networks are aware. colin kaepernick had the highest selling jersey in the nfl last year. there are lots of people who agree with what she said as opposed to immediately assuming that assaulting president trump or telling the truth about him that you're going to lose ratings. >> do you think there's a social media part of it here too that there's that fine line if you said that on the air condition while you're calling scores, but yet in a tweet it's a little bit more -- i could say, oh, i have the best ice cream in the world at this place, but then i said say something when it comes to my personal preference about somebody else -- >> yeah, look. we have a president who governs by twitter so it's absolutely

appropriate for us to -- if the president space has moved to twitter, then this is the place that we need to have these debates. >> jason, last word. >> they promoted michael and gem elto the 6th. and they should relax and defend their employees. >> great conversation and people are still having it at home with themselves or the person income to them. to booet of you, great conversation. thanks. and we'll be right back. hey grandpa. hey, kid. really good to see you. you too. you tell grandma you were going fishing again? maybe. (vo) the best things in life keep going. that's why i got a subaru, too. introducing the all-new crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek. with the pole, and i had to make a claim and all that? is that whole thing still draggin' on? no, i took some pics with the app and filed a claim, but, you know how they send you money to cover repairs and - -they took forever to pay you, right?

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good to be with you. live from msnbc headquarters in new york. right now protesters are converging on the nation's capitol. protrump supporters are demonstrating with the goal of boosting president trump's america first agenda. it comes after outrage over negotiations with top democratic leaders. the commander in chief meeting with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi over a possible daca deal. also, protests taking place at the lincoln memorial as part of the march on