period, both in person and around the world. >> wow! that really soothes my fragile ego. i can understand why you would want one of these guys around. melissa mccarthy, everybody. give it up. >> okay. good morning. it's monday. >> nice moment there. >> september 18th, welcome to "morning joe." is it a nice moment? awkward moment. mike barnicle is with us. >> veteran. >> donny deutsch is with us. why? >> donnie deutsch -- >> why? >> donny deutsch instagram yesterday. >> make this fast. >> me with my children to make me seem like a good dad or me

working out? i combined them, elderly man with the bicepses and my sweet little girl. >> biceps and babies section of instagr instagram. >> there's something wrong with you. >> at least i'm honest about it. >> i don't know if you know this or not, but he rents children to take out into central park. >> msnbc's mark halperin is here. now msnbc political contributor, rick tyler. and from washington, associate editor for the washington post, david ig nasnatius is with us a ka kasie hunt. >> they didn't have kids. they rented kids out. >> we would go around with

people saying we'll do things with your candidate and the kid says dad we've never been fishing. we never spent so much time together before. >> why are you hugging me? >> exactly. >> we don't go to church. so, mark halperin, you know, everybody was saying, you know, maybe trump has made a turn. there's always a tweet 15 minutes away. >> general kelly took a nap. >> so, a number this weekend, of course, though the one that has garnered the most attention before we get into the news, don't you think -- >> golf. >> about the golf. do you have that? >> come on. what? >> that's the president of the united states who tweeted out this. >> oh, come on. >> and, mark -- >> i don't love that. i don't love it. >> i'm serious, general kelly took a nap. >> no more loops on that.

that's the president of the united states. >> image of a crisis with north korea. i don't get that tweet. >> mika, mika, here you have, again -- this is a guy who, again, should put the campaign behind him. he just can't do it. and, i don't know, i just -- i know it's considered to be a joke. it's a bad joke. when you have the president of the united states in that position talking about knocking over a woman, his former opponent. >> no, it's bad on so many levels, i couldn't think on one way in which anybody would be overreaching or getting over their skis saying this is just a abominable. going through old trump interviews as well as columns you wrote. in august of 2016, after then candidate trump suggested that

one way to keep a conservative supreme court after hillary clinton got elected would be to assassinate her or federal judges and joe wrote in "the washington post," trump and his supporters have been scrambling wildly all day to explain away the inexplicable. the gop nominee was clearly suggesting that some of the second amendment people among his supporters could kill his democratic opponent were she to be elected. a bloody line has been crossed that cannot be ignored. at long last donald trump has left the republican party few options but to act decisively and get this political train wreck off the tracks before something terrible happens. so, this is what you were saying then. i know people feel otherwise. >> no, no, that was -- donny, that was right after the rnc. >> i don't know how much more you can warn the republican party.

>> we've been warning them since december 2015. they're all in "the washington post" columns. donny, you have the republican party acting shocked, donald trump is talking to democrats. how could we have ever seen this coming? the fact is that there was warning after warning after warning after warning and then people yesterday, oh, i can't believe he did -- no. this was all clear. >> don't be surprised at anything. >> i'm sorry. i've got to say it. when paul ryan and other republicans quietly sat back, let this guy get the nomination, then we warned paul ryan the day that he endorsed donald trump. >> he couldn't find the words. >> the day he endorsed donald trump, we said you just made a terrible mistake. you should have demanded discipline. you're not giving him your support. they never d they can't be

surprised now with what they've got. >> like jeff sessions, i feel like an idiot. maybe there's some metamorphasis that happened. it's the mood. at the same time he's talking about rocket man, giving a glib name to this mad man running north korea. >> we're going to get to that. >> to have the cognitive disability to tweet, him hitting hillary on the head with a golf ball, you never let me diagnose, i understand, on this show, but he's not a well guy. there's no other -- you do the dance. and there is the presidential t turettes of -- >> tuning out donald trump's tweets. they don't care. it's how i feel about tweets

from anybody at this point. i don't care. unless you're my mother. then i'm wondering why you're on twitter. but the question is, what about north korea? what about germany? >> so bring it up. >> what about britain? what about our allies? what about our enemies? have they learned to tune out this childish gibberish or is north korea still focusing on these things? >> we don't know how north korea reads these tweets. that's one thing that worries people. certainly rocket man knows that he was on the other end of this most recent tweet from the president. this week, donald trump will go to new york, go to the institution he used to attack. >> look at this. >> and try to make it his own, giving a speech at the u.n. on tuesday, as important to him as the meeting he will have today, where he will talk about reforming the u.n. with 100 different countries. the white house will say, see,

the u.n. is listening to us. we made criticisms of how corrupt and inefficient it was. now everybody is on board. feeling very much excited by his new outreaches to democrats. some of that excitement in new york this week. behind all that, the speech he'll give, the meetings, looms this ever-more serious crisis with north korea. we have senior officials now saying very directly that if this last chance that's offered in the diplomacy that opens this week to try to bring china in, to pressure north korea, if that fails, that the united states intends to turn to military options, unspecified. so, it's a series -- a crisis as we've seen, i think, in several decades in terms of the potential use of nuclear weapons. president secretary rex tillerson keeps saying they want

a diplomatic solution but everybody finishes those statements saying if that doesn't work general mattis is standing by and we're ready to turn to general mattis. >> mark halperin, so what do you think about these tweet this is weekend? do we start ignoring them? do we push them to the side? why would a president, who is -- again, you can't logically explain it this way but why would a president coming off his best week of press, probably, in his presidency, end the week with a series of inflammatory tweets? >> there's no surprise, on one level, that this is how he's dealing with foreign policy. but when you've got mattis and kelly, in particular, and h.r. mcmaster trying to drive a policy, it's frustrating.

>> this is not surprising, rick, but could it be that he has been seen as somebody who is going too far left over the past week, so, hey, i'm going to finish the week by doing something that i know the press will be shocked by and that my strongest base is going to be gleeful about? that is a dumb video, retweet a dumb video? >> it's hard to explain why he would take the time to do that. i think it amuses him. like many politicians, he's an adrenaline junkie and is addicted to the adrenaline. that's what that is all about. i warned about donald trump, that he didn't have any governing philosophy and would cut deals with democrats. we shouldn't be surprised by it. it's okay to do that as long as they're undercutting to you.

but in this situation he's undercutting his republican leaders. >> i wish there was an intelligent analysis with this behavior but there isn't. there's no intelligent way to read this behavior at all. >> hold on. >> is donny going to give it a try? >> donny said he was bored but mike says no. what do you think? >> the danger in the tweets is that they really outline -- >> they lead us to war? >> no. they outline and define who he is and who he has always been, an independent operator and no one, general kelly, secretary mattis, no one is going to be able to finally, firmly influence what he does. >> but that's a separate -- i think that moment he was eating his frostie o's and, that's funny. in his mind he's a real estate did developer and can do that without any implications. >> hnc.r. mcmaster, trying to explain the tweet. >> have you heard that from the president before or is that a

new one? >> it's a new one for the president but it reminds me of a cover of "the economist" a few years ago, portraying him as the rocket man. we shouldn't laugh too much about, because they do represent a grave threat to all -- to everyone. >> yes, they do, actually. thank you very much. >> that's an understatement, isn't it, david? national security council has been concerned about a possible land war, ground war in korea, north and south korea now, for several months. >> rocket man is pointing his rockets at u.s. targets and has been demonstrating an ability to use both missile technology and to build an ever-more advanced nuclear weapons that has astonished u.s. intelligence.

to use a jocular term, he may want to tweet kim but nobody should be unclear about how serious this threat it. >> so, dafvid, let me ask you. it seems that the north koreans have surprised us at every turn over the past 18 months. where is a country that can't even keep its electricity on at night across the country, where are they getting this technology to move forward so quickly that suddenly many worry that they may have the ability to put a nuclear warhead in the middle of los angeles fairly soon. where is it coming from? are the chinese aiding them, russians, pakistan? where are they getting this nuclear technology? >> that's one of the mysteries that our intelligence agencies are looking at. north korea is a target that they, frankly, admit they have not cracked. they don't know enough about how north korea builds its weapons.

it is believed that there are some foreign scientists who assist the north koreans. the north koreans are demonstrated proliferators. they sell them to make money. they have a network of people who they work with, part of their supply chain. anybody who wants to dig into this mystery of north korea, last week's issue of "the new yorker," he spent a week in pyongyang, watching, listening, talking to people. that's a great place to start. >> what's the greatest danger, david, according to the intel agencies that you speak with, that north korea uses its nuclear technology to fire a nuclear weapon at seattle or portland or san francisco or los angeles, or they sell it to isis and it ends up in the form of dirty bomb in times square or a

mall in, you know charlottesville or charleston or wherever? >> i'm just drawing on the comments i hear from former officials. and i would say it's the latter. north koreans are still some months off from actually having that deliverable threat. marrying the rocket and the bomb still appears to be some months away. and even when it comes we're going to have a lot of defenses. one thing i would love to see the president do is announce a real crash program to have new ways of taking out these korean missiles when they're first launched, boost phase program. longer term danger is they have mastered this technology and they're going to sell it. this is a desperately poor country, on its back foot. think of all of the people who would love to have deadly weapons to use to attack the united states. they're going to be customers. and i think that is at the

center of concern, not just over the next few months but for the remainder of this presidency and into the next. >> great danger. we're going to keep talking about that through the show. also, do you see, mark halperin, that the trump team, legal team, is headed by lionel hites? little simpson's reference there. i cannot believe how bumbling and how stupid these guys are. they are the most indiscreet attorneys. i mean it. i ever heard in my life, sending out angry e-mails, shouting in popular washington steakhouses problems they have. >> in front of "new york times" reporters. >> in front of "new york times" reporters. >> a block away from "the new york times" washington bureau. full block. >> i was clerking in pensacola,

i remember walking with mr. manual to the courthouse, and we were two blocks down. nobody within 1,000 feet of us. and i brought up a client. i said hey, i hear that the firm represents -- and he turned to me very politely and was like, young man, we don't talk about our clients outside of the office. and i looked around. he goes, it doesn't matter whether anybody is around or not. it's something you just don't do. you know, i learned that as a 23-year-old kid. and these clowns are sending e-mails in the middle of the night. these jackasses. >> oh, that's the word i was going to use. >> the lack of discipline for these trump attorneys. i've said it before. are just -- it's so astounding. >> representing the president of the united states. incredible story, which we'll get to, too.

>> okay. >> can you imagine what mattlock would say to these guys if he was in their firm? >> we'll have the full story come i coming up. bill? one of those seasons like '04 and '05, one after another. this is maria. if you weren't paying attention over the weekend, this became a hurricane, will head to the islands, and has its eye set on either virgin islands or puerto rico, maybe a little bit of both. the concern is that it will go through dominica and martinique as a category 3. puerto rico hasn't been hit by a category 4 or 5 hurricane since 1948. the population has doubled since then in puerto rico. right now is the time to prepare in puerto rico. anyone who can get out of there, all the tourists should be on any possible plane to get out of there.

guadalupe, st. kitts and puerto rico, dangerously close to puerto rico and the verirgin islands. the other final thing is this is irma and this is the path of maria. look how close. the virgin islands could almost get hit by both of those. the devastation there has already been done and then the misery on top of it with another storm is unimaginable. jose is still a hurricane but looks like a nor'easter. that's how it's going to act, minus the ice and snow. rain story along long island and cape cod. it does a little loop here and misses any direct impact. long island and cape cod, still a storm watch. any significant impact, gusty winds, minor power outages in long island and southern portions of massachusetts. compared to what maria will do in puerto rico and the virgin islands, jose is a glancing blow and nuisance in a couple of days. gusty winds and occasional rain over the next couple of days. i would not expect any major

impacts, just a couple of delays. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. can we at least analyze can we push the offer online? legacy technology can handcuff any company. but "yes" is here. the new app will go live monday? yeah. with hewlett-packard enterprise, we're transforming the way we work. with the right mix of hybrid it, everything computes. bp engineered a fleet of 32 brand new ships with advanced technology, so we can make sure oil and gas get where they need to go safely.

because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. you don't let anything lkeep you sidelined. come on! that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein, and 26 vitamins and minerals... for the strength and energy, to get back to doing what you love. ensure, always be you. i was playing golf a couple days ago... love golf. and my friend mentioned a tip a pro gave her. did it help? it completely ruined my game. that advice was never meant for you.

i like you. you want to show me your swing? it's too soon. get advice that's right for you with investment management services. the uncertainties of hep c. wondering, what if? i let go of all those feelings. because i am cured with harvoni. harvoni is a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. it's been prescribed to more than a quarter million people. and is proven to cure up to 99% of patients who have had no prior treatment with 12 weeks. certain patients can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. before starting harvoni, your doctor will test to see if you've ever had hepatitis b, which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after harvoni treatment. tell your doctor if you've ever had hepatitis b, a liver transplant, other liver or kidney problems, hiv or any other medical conditions and about all the medicines you take including herbal supplements. taking amiodarone with harvoni can cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. common side effects of harvoni

include tiredness, headache and weakness. ready to let go of hep c? ask your hep c specialist about harvoni.

all right. the president's legal team has had a series of mishaps of late. >> wow! >> first one of his attorneys erupted in a string of profanity-laced e-mails to a stranger. >> to a stranger. >> to someone completely -- >> what adult in the 21st century that's a public figure -- >> let me help you with this. >> -- sends e-mails to trolls? >> i think the president probably -- >> no. i'm just saying who does this? lawyers know. don't put it down in an e-mail. >> who does this? this is our president's attorney. good luck in court. >> they learn from that. >> they learn.

>> discipline than the rest of them. they learn from his mistakes. >> another of his lawyers forwarded an e-mail to journalists and government officials that echo ed secessionist civil war rhetoric. >> and then another attorney asked a journalist if he was o s drugs. >> you know if you put it in an e-mail it's going to end up in the papers, especially if you're attacking a journalist. >> with the trump admin -- he has not had good luck acquiring competent legal -- >> makes you wonder about the people he has hired. >> they probably want him to do things that competent lawyers

wouldn't do. >> right. they need to take the oath. >> except for the fact, kasie hunt, these lawyers, ty cobb, dowd, they are, i believe, from what i've heard, respected washington lawyers that should know better. look at their client list through the years, right? >> right. >> these guys didn't come into town and fall off a turnip truck. >> historically speaking, yes, joe, you're right. however, recent behavior patterns might indicate perhaps that is no longer the case as you were just outlining. one name we have not talked about yesterday on this program is don mcgann. he is the person who, in this "new york times" story, detailing this conversation, is cast as the villain. there's a suggestion oh, there's a spy for dan mcgann. i've known him for years. he is a very seasoned, very much cautious, very much behind the scenes, currently inside the white house as counsel.

that's what this clash here seems to be about. because these personal lawyers are essentially being asked to answer the question of whether or not the president is going to exert executive privilege or personal attorney client privilege in the course of the mueller investigation. >> wait, wait, wait. sorry, kasie. >> producers, do not show that. don't show him pulling up your pants, okay? >> kasie hunt is speaking. >> what goes around comes around, okay? don't do that to somebody. i'm sorry, kasie. go ahead and finish. >> thank you, both. i appreciate that. >> that is not cool at all. go ahead. >> makes it real. >> to pick up where we left off, mcgann is on the side of attempting to keep more information private. he wants to, according to this reporting, he wants to invoke this privilege.

it's a personal question for mcgann as well, potentially a witness and if the president exerts privilege, he may end up protected. an intense battle of the lawyers that, quite frankly, could come at the expense of the president. the president of the united states and his legal team is fighting in public. it's unprecedented. >> one might say this is a very bad sign for the president. can i detail the clash? then you is can have the table. >> this sets the table. >> let me set the table. >> i don't know. >> come on! >> we need to know who is sitting around the table. kasie just brought up don mcgann and very briefly, you've had issues with don mcgann as have others. i've heard a lot of things about don mcgann acting in ways that most white house legal counsel wouldn't act. >> white house counsel for any president is a tough job. he has been put under a lot of pressure even before all the investigation and independent

counsel. these new outside lawyers and inside lawyer, ty cobb, they've got their own agendas. it's complicated and it sets the table for a steak lunch. >> now the table is set, mama mika. go ahead and say grace. >> why did he have to jump? >> maybe -- i don't know. anyway, we apologize to don mcgann for that video. white house counsel don mcgann and ty cobb have reportedly argued. >> many requested e-mails and documents in hopes of ending the investigation. >> that's not going to happen. >> he has expressed worry about setting a precedent that would weaken the white house long after president trump's tenure is over. then this. cobb was overheard by a reporter of "the new york times" discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a

popular washington steakhouse. cobb was heard talking about white house lawyer he deemed "a mcgahn spy, saying mcgahn had a couple of documents locked in a safe that he seemed to suggest he wanted access to. >> he's saying this. >> cobb, while having a cobb salad, mention aid colleague whom he blame for the record some of these earlier leaks and who he said tried to push jared out, meaning jared kushner. after "the times" reached out about the overheard conversation, chief of staff john kelly, reprimanded cobb. what are we talking about here? >> as you said, mark -- >> these two people. >> two blocks from the white house. >> not quite two blocks. it's about a block. >> again the lack of discipline. i want to say the lack of any attorney that's practiced law for more than a week knows the

lack of discipline shown by this group is staggering. i don't know any other client that, in similar circumstances, they had something like this happen, they would fire these attorneys immediately. >> it's the highest profile case in america right now. they're sitting in public, talking about it to each other in voices loud enough to be heard. there's one other detail in that story that i think is important, which says that white house officials believe their colleagues might be wearing wires for the independent counsel and trying to obtain more evidence within the white house. >> that doesn't send a chill in the white house. >> no. >> the reason this is not surprising is the ceo sets a tone from a management point of view. donald trump's style seems no different with the attorneys, create chaos, pit one against the other. >> make people feel scared. >> i would be shocked if we saw precedent with these lawyers on other cases behaving this way.

>> donny, they wouldn't. the thing is, as i have said to other staff members, not only this white house but other white houses, i've reminded them that the president you're working for now will be gone. when you're gone you still have your reputation. these lawyers -- >> and others. >> this will not be their last case, but this will stay with them, that they lack -- what ceo will ever trust ty cobb or these other guys who are sending out -- or dowd? >> many other people who have touched the fire. >> the amazing thing about it is that both ty cobb and john dowd are not like bumpkins from iowa, looking up at the skyscrapers in new york. >> a boston snob. >> it's amazing they're sitting there in an open setting talking

about what they're talking about. >> look at these two. >> many people i know are from aimes, iowa. >> we love aimes, iowa. >> don mcgahn has lawyered up in the story. everybody has lawyered up in this. clearly don mcgahn knows more about what's going on, internally, with donald trump than do ty cobb and john dowd. >> if the white house lawyers don't have the same privilege with their clients. >> i want to know how michael cohn got scheduled to testify to a senate intelligence committee the same day that president trump is addressing the u.n. and that he didn't know whether it's public or private. >> suggesting? >> lawyers don't make good witnesses. >> what's the point? >> that will be a story today. and donald trump, from a communications perspective, would want all his focus on his

u.n. speech. >> that wasn't the setup. >> i have to say something there. the thing that i'm taken away with this entire segment is that aimes, iowa, is home to iowa state university. >> great place. >> leading center of technology, agriculture, veterinary medicine. >> nanotechnology. >> in 2020 none of us will be going to iowa with mike. >> not with mike. i will tell you, check out -- if you're at home, check out aimes, iowa and iowa state university. they really are, as you know, on the leading edge of -- >> cradle of civilization. >> some of the greatest people are aimes people. >> and then there are these elitists that i personally get offended by. i'm an aimes guy. >> we are all aimes. >> we are aimes. >> you all are so -- >> not as sophisticated as

watertown or south boston. >> that's true. watertown especially. >> all right. >> coming up, admiral james tsavrides says that the sanctions against north korea are too weak. former nato commander joins us. plus, robert costa joins us with new reporting. "morning joe" is coming right back.

you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends, three jobs... you're like nothing can replace brad. then liberty mutual calls... and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement™, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. you wof your daily routine, so why treat your mouth any differently? complete the job with listerine® help prevent plaque, early gum disease, bad breath and kill up to 99.9% of germs.

listerine® bring out the bold™

the president's been very clear that he views this threat of north korea as ever froeing. their program is advancing. it's advancing technologically and in its capabilities. we've said from the beginning we don't have a lot of time left. we don't have a runway left to land this plane on. we need china's assistance to bring them to the table. >> we pretty much have exhausted all the things we can do at the security council at this point. now, as i said yesterday i'm perfectly happy taking this over to general mattis.

he has plenty of military options. we wanted to be responsible and go through all diplomatic means to get their attention first. if that doesn't work, general mattis will take care of it. the united states has to defend itself or defend its allies in any way, north korea will be destroyed and we all know that. none of us want that. none of us want war. >> i'm not so sure about that, actually. joining us now, former nat oco, retired four-star army general james tsavrides, political analyst for msnbc news. admiral, i understand we have really strong generals in place, but i still wonder if -- i'm not sure how they can protect our country from this president, his tweets and his unhinged behavior as it pertains to potentially going to war. >> well, let's start by setting aside the goofy tweets and let's

hope that the marketplace is beginning to really discount tho those. as i travel internationally, i find more people are watching what the administration does not what the president tweets. we don't have an on and off switch between do nothing and accept a situation in north korea and all-out massive military strike. it's something i've been talking about lately, a naval blockade. now, this is a controversial option. i think there's an upside to it because it's a middle position between a big strike and simply doing nothing. >> what's the downside of the naval blockade? why is it controversial? >> the downside, joe, would be the potential for confrontation with chinese and russian ships. if you really look at number of merchant ships in the world well

over half of them are flagged to countries like the bahamas, marshall islands. the vast majority are allies, partners and friends of the united states. we have the logistic capability to do this. it would cut off the economic component, other than the chinese border, which we would have to continue to deal with china on. i think it's time to do something as opposed to -- >> right. >> -- kind of waving our hands at the problem. >> david ignatius, i'll let you ask the question but toss to you the concept i started with, which is it may be that president trump's tweets and stupid statements might be sort of losing their, whatever, gusto in the marketplace and people discounting him. i could see the leader of north korea, who is equally potentially, you know, imbalanced and hard to predict, reacting badly. >> he has been reacting pretty

badly. >> yeah. >> shooting off missiles. and the tweets, obviously, have the same effect as declaring a red line. they almost force you to take action. i want to ask admiral staviridis about the realm of real possibilities. i've heard your former colleagues saying recently that the president should announce a crash program to build a system that could stop north korean missiles in their boost phase, aerial vehicles that would be offshore, that would have new capabilities. do you think that's a good idea? do you think there are other new technologies that a year or two from now would make this problem look different? >> i don't think there's a silver bullet here, david. i do think an increased emphasis on boost phase does make sense. i'm not sure that i categorize it as a crash program but an extension of what we're doing now with our egis system would be a real advancement.

i think the other big zone of potential improvement, david, is cyber. so, alongside a naval blockade, i put offensive cyber capability. here is another advantage of cyber. you could use it selectively in ways that would under mine the confidence in north korea's ability to launch the missiles because part of what he's doing is salesmanship. he wants to be able to sell that technology abroad. i think there are real advantages to cyber alongside the missile defense and alongside a maritime option. >> let's go back to the naval blockade. who participates in the naval blockade besides the united states? given the problems that the navy has had over the past several months, how confident are you that the retraining going on now would help to make the blockade more effective? >> both great questions. i would say, mike, the first one is this is a big advantage of a

blockade. we could bring in japan, south korea, australia, new zealand, singapore from asia. i am quite confident nato members would come and participate in this. we need to get this conversation off the u.s. versus north korea and make it the world versus north korea, a maritime operation would be the way to do that. as to the second point i'm quite confident that the navy will get to the bottom of these two terrible collisions we've had and emerge stronger on the other si side. good thing about ships, mike, you know this as a former marine yourself, you can flow them. we can replace the ships we've lost with other egis destroyers even coming from the atlantic fleet. >> any indication you see that the chinese are being impacted by the current debate and situation or are they in their normal mode of not particularly interested in helping? >> this is the gut question. i feel like if it's dialed a

couple of degrees more toward cooperation. they see that they are getting, as secretary tillerson was saying, we're getting to the end of the runway here. i think the chinese are dialing. at the end of the day, they don't want to unify korean peninsula. they don't want war, refugees and break the global economy. i feel the dial moving but it's certainly not dramatic as of yesterday. >> admiral staviridis, let me ask you, what do you like most about ames, iowa? have you ever been to ames? >> just saying it's a great place. >> i've never been to ames. >> i bet you wish you had today. don't you? maybe we'll go there together. >> thank you so much for your insight. >> mike barnicle -- >> yes, sir. >> -- like a true yankee, has been insulting ames, iowa, this morning, admiral. >> shameful. >> great reseven place. >> the only downside is they

don't have a sea coast in ames, iowa. other than that, i bet it's a nice place. >> incredible place. look it up on the internet today. >> thank you so much for being on. >> we will be back in a moment. still ahead this morning, don't look now. senate republicans could be trying one last gasped attempt at repealing obamacare. good god, what's wrong with them? >> are you serious? >> seriously. >> halloween is coming up. every halloween night, the great pumpkin rises from the pumpkin patch and comes and brings toys to good boys and girls. >> i heard that. >> all over the globe. so maybe they're inspired by the great pumpkin. >> apparently this effort has some democrats nervous. i think they should be nervous about a lot more but, any how, "morning joe" is coming right back. a pilot like you shouldn't be flying buses.

welcome to miami. you should be serving your country. [ whispering ] i'm working for the c-i-a. that sounds made up, barry. this is going to be good for us. nice wheels. [ laughter ] ♪ that's for the damage. and your bike. you never saw me. [ bell rings ] american made. rated r. so, i was at mom and dad's ♪ and found this. cd's, baseball cards... your old magic set? and this wrestling ticket...

which you still owe me for. seriously? $25? i didn't even want to go. ahhh, your diary. "mom says it's totally natural..." $25 is nothing. abracadabra, bro. the bank of america mobile banking app. the fast, secure and simple way to send money. we are the tv doctors of america, and we may not know much about medicine, but we know a lot about drama. we also know that you can avoid drama by getting an annual check-up. so go, know, and take control of your health.

it could save your life. cigna. together, all the way.

and we all know the emmys

mean a lot to donald trump because he was nominated multiple times for "celebrity apprentice," but he never won. why didn't you give him an emmy? i tell you this, if he had won an emmy, i bet he wouldn't have run for president. so in a way, this is all your faults. and even during the campaign, trump would not let it go. this actually happened. this exchange actually happened in the debates. >> there was even a time when he didn't get an emmy for his tv program three years in a row and he started tweeting that the emmys were rigged. >> i should have gotten it. >> this -- >> but he didn't. because unlike the presidency, emmys go to the winner of the popular vote. >> and the emmy goes to -- alec baldwin for "saturday night live." >> i suppose i should say at long last, mr. president.

here is your emmy. >> that was pretty good, right? coming up, a preview of president trump's first speech before the u.n. general assembly. please don't embarrass us, right? confusion over whether the u.s. is sticking with the paris climate accord. yes. some top trump administrations trying to clear things up, and much more on how the president's a-list attorneys are more like a bunch of pea stone cops. we'll be right back. ♪ kevin, meet your father. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you.

with 33 individual vertebrae and 640 muscles in the human body no two of us are alike. life made more effortless through adaptability. the perfect position seat in the lincoln continental. ♪ you don't let anything lkeep you sidelined. come on! that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein, and 26 vitamins and minerals... for the strength and energy, to get back to doing what you love. ensure, always be you. 'saved money on motorcycle insurance with geico. goin' up the country. later, gary' i have a motorcycle! wonderful. ♪

♪ i'm goin' up the country, baby don't you wanna go? ♪ ♪ i'm goin' up the country, baby don't you wanna go? ♪ geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. it's my decision ito make beauty last. roc® retinol, started visibly reducing my fine lines and wrinkles in one week. and the longer i use it, the better it works. retinol correxion® from roc. methods, not miracles.™ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... ...isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,... ...with reduced redness,... ...thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has... ...no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting.

tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased... ...risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have... ...a history of depression... ...or suicidal thoughts,... ...or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla... ...reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper... ...respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take... ...and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. a nation's technology will determine its power. in its economy, in medicine, in science and in national security. one company designs and builds more supercomputers than any other. an american company. hewlett packard enterprise. leading the way to discover... to innovate... and to protect. hewlett packard enterprise. a national asset in supercomputing.

and welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, september 18th. >> this episode brought to you by ames, iowa. the great researchers out there. some of the best and brightest people i know actually. brilliant place. >> wow, but unlike that, donnie deutsche is still with us. >> i love ames. and they love me in ames. >> our senior political analyst is with us. also, rick tyler. >> i guarantee rick loves ames. >> god. so this after "the washington post," david ignatius. cas kasie hunt joins the conversation, and also, the moderator of "washington week" on pbs. >> we'll get to the news.

nuclear war and stuff like that in a little bit. >> problematic. >> before we do that, let's just talk about quickly, some tweets. and show a couple of the president's tweets from this weekend, guys. because obviously last week -- >> they are churning them up right now. >> this president maybe was thinking about being a bit more constructive, and yet he called -- first of all, he did this one. where he showed the president of the united states knocking his political opponent down. no more loops please, guys. and he called the guy rocket man who -- who may actually be the cause of either a ground war in asia or a possible nuclear confrontation. bob costa, any surprise inside the white house that the president has taken this lurch, or what are you hearing? >> for long-time trump watchers, this is not a surprise. when i started covering

president trump, i noticed his social media editor, his caddy at the golf club -- >> can you say that again? >> his former caddy. >> he is a former caddy, and works in the business operations, he is a confidant, and he has control over the twitter account, but they share a temperament in the sense of enjoying the memes they find online, and with the rocket man tweet, let's remember the president is known to be a fan of elton john, so i wasn't surprised to see that phrase used, rocket man, one of the elton john songs, to describe kim jong-un. we're looking at a president who is not under the control of general john kelly, the chief of staff. this is a president who operating with his own instincts scrolling through twitter, and making decisions. it's not the order of process we

hear about. >> you have democrats talking about possibly -- chuck schumer picked up on a hot mic telling the president he should work with democrats as well as republicans to box himself in. does this impact any of that calculus for democrats with the president moving forward or do they understand? they have been attacked themselves personally. i think everybody around here has been attacked personally. deal with it, right? >> they are compartmentalizing like the republicans now. somehow there's a protest, but as long as they are making good deals, i don't think they will mind the tweets because, like, the white house staff and the congressional republicans, this is the president for now, and you have to work with him regardless. i bet that tweet was not popular in chappaqua. >> we have become desensitized to these tweets and they are dangerous. if general kelly wants to, like, work on saving this country from the frailties of this

president's ability to process information and handle it like an adult and not lead us either marching into war or cause some sort of unrest, he needs to take his phone away from him, and if he does not hand over his phone, he needs to quit. >> it's interesting you were desensitized. my reaction when i saw it was -- i'm ashamed to say this because it's disgusting. i giggled for a second and said, that's silly. if a year ago i saw that or two years ago, we have become desensitized. that may be good news. take aside the madman with your hand on the button over in north korea, but to most logical thinking people, they are dismissed at this point. >> it's not the madmen with the hand on the button, but it's the guy with his finger on his iphone that can tweet. >> i wasn't even outraged. >> people become desensitized to it, but it has an impact.

you saw his interview on fox news with chris wallace -- >> he is embarrassed. >> he is supposed to have a serious tone and a serious, clear message about what our policy is with north korea, which i still don't really know what it is. >> and you remember -- >> he was embarrassed. >> he had to respond to this tweet coming from the president. >> if the junior of the house of representatives retweeted that video, they would be forced to apologize. >> of course, they would. this president has been held to a lower standard than any members of congress, any ceos, any anything. it would not -- it would not be acceptable under any terms. i want to ask david ignatius, the other tweet about, quote, rocket man in north korea, from your travels, is it safe to say that most of our allies have begun to discount what donald trump tweets and instead looks at what he does instead of what he says, and what can you tell us about our enemies?

about russia for those who think russia, iran, are our enemies? our heated rivals with russia and china and the north korean. >> joe, i think the world is getting to know our impulsive tweet-loving president and pay a little less attention to the, you know, off the cuff zingers. even so, they can be disruptive. you can be near an agreement, as with mexico, with terms which a wall would be built, and then a tweet from the president blows up the trip that the trip that the president of mexico was planning to take to washington. the president is about to go to the u.n. the white house is saying, you know, this is a great moment. it's a great day for the u.n. the u.n. has come around to a lot of our views. don't forget this president's

approval ratings overseas fell off a cliff after inauguration. just stunning declines from the 70s down to the 30s. pick your country. so this is a world that's still trying to figure out who is running the united states. what are his policies? does he mean it when he has these kind of impulsive statements? and they are watching president trump who are closer and closer toward the danger with north korea. this is a week when the world will really be focused. >> just to build on what david was saying right there, pay attention to this week not only to president trump, but my sources inside of the administration saying this is a huge week for a u.n. ambassador, nikki haley. she has a close relationship with the president. she has a close relationship with dina pal, and even the secretary of state. she will be a face for this government with world leaders on that stage.

>> let me ask you, bob. a lot of stories about just how isolated rex tillerson is inside the administration. it seems like fairly obvious tip of the hat to nikki haley has a replacement for rex tillerson as secretary of state. are any of your sources suggesting this might be coming up down the road? >> it's the story that never ends in washington about the frustrations of the secretary of state, a business executive who comes from exxonmobil, and never got to build with the president. he says that's not entirely true, and he talks to the president near daily, but til r tillerson is unhappy with the way this played out, and hasn't clicked with the president. he hasn't been able to navigate the thorny politics in a more effective way. >> you couldn't find somebody inside the administration that

has contradicted the president's statements more than nikki haley. nikki hal nikki haley has her foreign policy, and donald trump has his foreign policy, and never shall the two meet. >> except on north korea where nikki haley -- >> you know what i'm saying. you can find all the people in the administration, few or none have contradicted the president's policies more than nikki haley, and yet he seems to like her. >> she was a fervent opponent of his during the campaign in a way they were surprised he picked her to serve in the administration at all. it's interesting to see the way in which he has been able to finesse her where he has been able to work with her, and not rex tillerson. he doesn't come from this part of the world. >> you make a good point. he chooses by personality, and not by issues. if you look at gary cohen, versus tillerson. he is a mitch mcconnell, versus

a chuck schumer or nikki haley. he can go choosing along the way. he goes for the guys who is loosy goosy. >> it's personally. >> completely driven by personality. >> he also considers looks in it all. i swear to god i have seen that myself. kasie, jump in. >> nikki haley has been an antidote to the tweeting we have seen and been talking about. she is somebody who has been sort of steady, predictable and forceful in a way that seems deliberate, and i think that that is reassuring and potentially has been, and i know you are talking about our allies with david ignatius, but i want to raise the point again on the tweets and i think for members of congress, they are willing and maybe to their detriment, normalizing tweets like the one about hillary clinton. they are not on north korea, and part of it is, remember the last time the president tweeted something about the generals and the military, and it went dot

dot dot at the end and the pentagon said, what does this mean? are we striking syria? there's danger in the unpredictability there. >> let's strip this down. the more we talk about it, the more i think about it. the more that this was just australia exclamation point at the end of a week where he was accused of going soft. going with schumer and nancy pelosi. i don't think he just did it to do it. i think he did it to throw red meat, rick tiyler, at the base, and that's all they will talk about. that's all they talked about yesterday, and i can hear it already. people out on the golf course. did you see what trump tweeted? they weren't talking about intricacies of daca. >> two examples. president trump tweeted out with the policy, transgender and military policy. that never turned out to be a

policy, and everything he said about daca, and he gets to say he is going to do something without actually doing it, and saying he will give this money to charity, vis-a-vis the hurricanes, and nothing happened. >> none of his tweets mean anything, and they are banking on the fact -- we are banking on the hope that the world is discounting his tweets. >> joe is saying the opposite. he is giving him a very cognitive, strategic -- i think he was bored and went, boom. you give him credit. >> it's not that i give him credit. you always look -- if he is accused of going soft by steve bannon or by breitbart or ann coulter or somebody else, you watch. there's always red meat thrown and he uses twitter for it. >> fantastic. >> over a year. i'm sorry. i'm just telling you what

happened. >> i know. >> you don't have to like it, but it happens all the time. >> it scares the hell out of me actually. >> whenever there is bad news, the fbi shows up at manafort's house. he just throws out a transgender ban tweet that means absolutely nothing. >> his policies mean nothing. >> or he tells people he is going to alabama to support mitch mcconnell's ally, senator luther strange, and then comes the secretary clinton tweet. >> right. he is going to help big luther, and then just in time for somebody to get mad at him, he doesn't tweet that he knows, we'll suck up the oxygen in the room and talk about it. >> that's true, and it's important to remember too, though, that under this john kelly administration, controlling what news he has access to, and twitter plays an important role now for donald trump, and it used to be people dropped breitbart articles on his desk, and he sees them

through twitter. he is doing a lot of retweets we haven't seen in the past, and he is embracing twitter now -- >> i have to say, and i have always said and ronald reagan's people always said, and i'm not comparing him to ronald reagan. his people always said that reag reagan's greatest strength is being underestimated. i wonder if we don't underestimate him, people say, he is crazy. i think he is using twitter now as -- as again, something that gives him political space. i can work with chuck. i can work with nancy. i can work with luther strange. i'll just show this outrageous tweet that clinton haters in the tribe will get lathered up about. it's just pure tribalism. i'll feed their tribalism, and i have to get to mark, ignatius. go for it. >> just to bring it back to

knack i ca nikki haley, and why the president likes her. he likes people who control their brands, and who are popular, make things happen. project the image they want to project in nikki haley has a former governor understands how to do that much better than a lot of cabinet members. that's what he does. he controls his brand in ways that sometimes are broad, and sometimes narrow. look on twitter to the reaction to the tweet we all condemned. they like donald trump. >> they love it. and actually, david, hold on one second. i'm going to talk to you about tillerson and haley. let's finish up on feeding the base through twitter. >> just following up on your point, joe, what we're seeing is the president is testing this base. he is testing breitbart and right wing organizations and his whole base and saying, if i don't agree with you on ideology, i won't agree with you on endorsement, but wiif we sha

grievan grievance, thewill you work wit me? >> so testing or feeding right wing platforms with the power of the presidency. that's fantastic. that's not safe. i'm just telling you. just because you can figure it out doesn't mean it's okay. it's actually chilling. it's chilling. does anyone disagree? >> i'm going to david ignatius. it's not right wing. this is not about right wing. this is about tribalism, and grievance. he feeds the grievance and the tribalism and it gives him the space to work with democrats on daca, and bright bart and coulter, and hannity, and bannon will never be able to compete with that. with a tweet that, you know, in one second, donald trump can tweet something that completely eclipses every attack they all do over a long weekend. david ignatius, it seems that

bob costa may have given us a pretty good story to follow this week, and that is of course, rex tillerson and nikki haley in this u.n. week. a lot of talk about tillerson completely out of favor. isolated from the president. what are you hearing about the possibility of tillerson's departure and nikki haley descending the secretary of state? >> the idea that she would come in for tillerson is the rumor of the week in washington. i have asked people about it all over, and i just don't think that's likely to happen soon. tillerson remains firmly in control of the north korea diplomacy. >> explain that. >> so he was on tv making clear that the united states' strategy, whatever anybody says about, let's turn it over to

general mattis, is set to table for a diplomatic negotiation with north korea. he repeated again what he calls the four noes. no regime change. no quick reunification of the northern peninsula. they say, we understand your problems and won't do anything contrary to your fundamental interest. that's his policy, and he owns it. >> it's safe to say, david, that's in coordination with secretary mattis? >> tillerson and mattis talk about everything. early in this administration, i heard that those two do not go to the white house without having figured out a joint position. that's why they are each still fairly strong in all these policies, is they work things out beforehand. but i would note an interesting point about tillerson. he is such a poor communicator publicly.

he doesn't run the state department well, but he has been able to stand up to the president. he is one of the few people after the charlottesville comments by the president who said, he does not speak for the united states. he speaks for himself, which was pretty strong language he got away with it. >> he feeds into the rumors he might be leaving his job. >> but again, the people who would know whether the president is getting ready to chuck him say no. he isn't. >> whether you think tillerson is great or underrated, whatever you think, it's unambiguously true. he has not managed well. the president doesn't like to be surrounded by people who get bad press. >> it's really stunning because i'm thinking my reaction was, wow. he is just bored, but you're right. we would have started this show today with, so, trump spent his first week in office as a democrat last week. >> nobody is talking about trump the democrat. >> i could have written it for this show at this point.

i would be interested for you to leave tomorrow's show with the last ten times trump has done something normal. the daca thing, raising the debt ceiling and all the things we need. before everybody's hair goes on fire, it's out the window. >> i don't know if i would have put it that way, but kasie hunt, it's tribalism and grievance, and if paul goes home to jamesville, wisconsin, and he is talking to people in a town hall meeting or watching the packers play at lambeau field, they won't be talking about daca and the 12-step process to passing daca. they are going to go, hey. he is tweeting about hillary clinton. i mean, again, the tribe -- that's feeding the tribe, and it's pathetic that our politics that has gotten there. >> i think it's more than pathetic. >> lions can bark at the waves

if they want to, but -- you can say homer simpson. it's simpson-esque. >> i'm not sure he would have thought donnie's analogy was particularly polite, but this is dangerous for establishment republicans. the more this is encouraged and the president stokes this as you are seeing it played out, we haven't talked about the race going on in alabama, the senate race, but there's an all-out war going on right now between breitbart and steve bannon and the tribalism forces that could put a guy in mitchell mcconnell's midst who, you know, is ready to make, you know, grind the entire enterprise to a halt, and the more the president encourages those -- i'm talking about the judge who has shown a willingness to essentially blow up institutions, processes with the way things are done. mcconnell has spent millions to try to prevent that from happening, and i think it's an important example, but it's just one how this tribal instinct you're focusing on could

potentially threaten what is a very, very tenuous governing -- i wouldn't even call it majority. it's this -- they have kind of figured how to wind their way through things, and the more the president encourages that, i think the bigger the risk. >> yeah. >> yeah. you know, homer simpson works at a nuclear power plant pt. >> he saved it several times. >> bob costa, thank you. i wasn't joking. >> kasie, what are you working on today? >> today, we have -- well, the hill is a little bit slow starting out this week, but i will be focusing on the potential for this obamacare repeal legislation to go through. democrats are trying to kind of raise the flags of alarm again because they feel their base has started to ignore it. i'm not sure it's real yet. >> what are you working on today? >> a lot of these members are home for the week.

if you are senator bob corker, you're under pressure from the left coming to town halls and pressure from trump on the right. you're paying attention to alabama, and thinking about maybe retirement. i'm trying to hone in on those dynamics. who will retire? >> phillip, stay with us. ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i think this is a war between the split of this party, and you have donald trump on the side of the establishment with mitch mcconnell spending millions of dollars there to keep the appointed incumbent in place, and you have the judge who is liked like the conservatives and breitbart, and steve bannon who is not in the white house, and despite what people say, you don't have influence when you are out of the white house. steve doesn't have an opportunity if he is behind judge moore, and moore wins, this is an interesting exprofessie exposition. >> alabama played a pivotal role

in the shutdown in 2016. after the approval ratings dropped, you had people at the chamber, and other contributors saying, you know what? this party is not our party, and, you know, ted cruz can talk about how great the government shutdown he was all he wants to. it was a disaster. it was especially a disaster for tea party candidates in the primary process. the establishment completely cleaned up in those primaries in 2014. it started in 2001. it was bradley burn when he had a lot of established republicans say, enough. we're going to get engaged. this race, i think in the senate, will be the same thing, but right now, you just -- you have to -- >> chambers in this race? he has welcomed the war. >> i have to say though, judge roy moore in the state of alabama, in a special primary with low turnout, is going to be

a hard one for the establishment. >> with high cards. >> the judge holds high cards. >> he has lost two times in the past. >> still ahead to "morning joe,r at the white house with the assembly. plus bernie sanders' response to hillary clinton's criticism he didn't do enough to get his voters to support her in the general election. "morning joe" is coming right back. liberty mutual stood with me

when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. these are the specialists we're proud to call our own. experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. expert medicine works here. learn more at cancercenter.com

but their nutritional needs (vremain instinctual.d, that's why there's purina one true instinct. nutrient-dense, protein-rich, real meat number one. this is a different breed of natural nutrition. purina one, true instinct. has gotten to know our business so well that is feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. and when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my small business. ♪ a dell advisor can help you choose the right products with powerful intel® core™ processors. ♪ and life's beautiful moments.ns get between you flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. it helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. flonase changes everything.

dental professionals recommend using an electric toothbrush. for an exceptionally fresh feeling choose philips sonicare diamondclean. hear the difference versus oral b. in a recently published clinical study, philips sonicare diamondclean outperforms oral-b 7000, removing up to 82% more plaque and improving gum health up to 70% more. its sonic technology cleaning deep between teeth. from the most recommended sonic toothbrush brand by dental professionals. switch to philips sonicare today. philips sonicare. save when you buy now. did you hear pdirectv's latest deal?

it's cheap and gets you all the big games. it starts at sixty bucks a month, but jumps to over 100 after 3 months. cool i think? and jumps again to over 150 after a year. noooo... and ends up costing over 3500 bucks over 2 years. you're cleaning that up. don't get caught off guard by directv. touchdown. get the best with xfinity. joining us now from outside trump tower here in new york city, nbc news national correspondent, peter alexandre p alexander. what is ahead for. president this week? >> reporter: the president waking up back home at trump tower this morning. this will be a big week when the public will be watching and

listening. they will focus on how this president will balance his america first vision with the u.n. world first philosophy. after his election, he was complaining about the united nations saying they don't solve problems. they create kroproblems, and hen take those complaints to the body, and the meeting will be tomorrow. the meetings kick off in earnest today. just shy of 10:00, in fact, he will be hosting a gathering on united nations reform. a point he has focused on in the past. still unclear among other things is, in fact, the u.s. will commit to the financing of the united nations, but of course, the overriding topic front and center here will be north korea. the president sort of gearing up for this event by tweeting that mocking tweet of the erratic north korean leader. he will be meeting at a lunch with the leaders of japan and

south korea. their countries and the united states participating in drills over the skies of the peninsula on sunday. >> appreciate it. >> thank you. joining us from washington, national political reporter, jonathan swann. >> we have been talking about rex tillerson, and you reported he finds himself conspicuously short on allies. tell us about that. >> reporter: it's one of the most challenging exercises to do at the moment journalistically is to find someone in washington that will enthusiastically endorse rex tillerson. the president was saying privately rex just doesn't get it and he is totally establishment, and he has been thinking of trashing rex to various aides, but after that, i tried to prove the counterfactual, and talked to people on the hill, inside the state department and inside the white house, and it's hard to

find people to defend him. >> why is that? why don't people on the hill like him? >> there's two reasons, and a former bush official summed it up best. rex tillerson's constituency would be people who see him and mattis as moderates and influence on donald trump. as david ignatius pointed out, they work well together, but because of what he has done manageri managerially, he has lost them for those reasons, but he has never had an ideological dlans on the right. he is not hawkish on russia, so all these things that, you know, conservative republicans are used to seeing in a top diplomat, they don't get from rex tillerson, and then the other constituency of course is the media and the public image and he has just completely ignored and neglected that, and he is taking blatant attempts to

talk to people, but it might be too late. >> david ignatius, i want you to ask him a question, but first, talk about really just how he is rowing -- has had to row against the tide from the very beginning. because his job was to do what the president wanted and what everybody around the president wanted their secretary of state to do, and that is to basically put state on starvation diet. they didn't trust state more than the intel communities even before they got into the white house. >> i think you put your finger on it that this is an insurgent president. he represented a base that regarded with the state department with deep suspicion. rex tillerson comes to washington from texas, from a corporation that is regarded the state department as a nuisance, an obstacle to doing what exxonmobil wants, and i think

the situation was right for exactly what we have seen,s and a secretary of state who doesn't want any of the usual washington treats. he could care less what people in the washington scene think about him. he doesn't want to make speeches when he is gone or write a memoir. i have read about him that his view of this job is basically the country music song. take this and shove it. how long is the white house going to put up with such a diffident secretary of state? i have heard he isn't getting it right, and how long do you think this can last? >> ultimately, that comes down to the president, and so it's unknowable, but find me somebody -- please. i would love to meet them. find me someone in the white house who is an enthusiastic endorser of rex tillerson. i would love to know who they

are, and that's an unsustainable position. i cannot find that person. >> when you do, come back to "morning joe." >> i will! let me know. let me know. i would love to talk to them. i'm not being glib. i'm being sincere. >> we're going to put a 1-8 hundred up tnumber on the botto the screen -- >> i don't think he took the oath. >> we can find somebody. >> he is very upset. >> it's real. it's a real question. >> jonathan, thank you so much. we appreciate it. it is a real question because, david, think about all the people that rex tillerson offends by carrying out what the president wants done. we have talked about on the left. of course, the left is going to be upset about it, but you can't discount all the people on the right. the so-called neo-cons and former cold war warriors who

have seen, and also actually people who are educated and don't understand that everything you do touches the work of diplomats across the globe. >> tillerson had a lot of enemies. he had one crucial friend, and that person was named jared kushner. jared kushner has seen himself as running interference for tillerson, advocating tillerson's positions. the white house inside supporter and the question to ask is whether he has run out of rope on that one, and whether kushner and the family, the inner family have begun to see him as a liability. >> or i mean -- i think there's credibility issues. >> "the new york times" -- takes us inside the story. see how i did that? how russia is ramping up its information war against the west. i'm joined by jim and mika, who

there's a cauldron there. >> we figured out the issue. we'll be right back. when you have something you love,

you want to protect it. at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. at ally, we're doing digital financial services right. but if that's not enough, we have 7500 allys looking out for one thing, you. call in the next ten minutes to save on... and if that's not enough, we'll look after your every dollar.

put down the phone. and if that's not enough, we'll look after your every cent. grab your wallet. access denied. and if that's still not enough to help you save... ooo i need these! we'll just bring out the snowplow. you don't need those! we'll do anything, seriously anything, to help our customers. thanks. ally. do it right.

i was arguing with my supporters at the denver convention in 2008, about why

they had to quit complaining that i didn't win and get out and support barack obama, and i didn't get that respect. >> i worked as hard as i could after endorsing hillary clinton. i went all over this country, and i would remind people -- people say, not everybody who voted for bernie ended up voting for hillary. no kidding. that's what happens in politics. if my memory is correct in 2008, people who voted for hillary clinton voted for john mccain. that's the nature of politics. most people, you know, not rigidly democrats or republicans, they vote where they want. >> what do you think? >> i think the party did unfair things to bernie sanders along the way, and i think that -- >> when you say that the process was rigged against bernie? >> possibly, yes. >> i understand why a lot of people who voted for bernie voted for trump.

it's all visceral. hillary clinton, the politician. and trump and sanders were a lot more alike than people realized. >> stylistically, yeah. i don't think -- i don't understand how hillary clinton thinks she is going to win this fight. >> what is the fight? >> she has got a lot of merit to the argument she is making. >> there is merit to the argument. >> i don't get what she hopes the outcome of this might be. like bernie sanders will apologize or his supporters will suddenly like her? >> every time she is out there, she helps -- >> she helps the republican party. >> and bernie was exactly right. there were a lot of hillary supporters that were never going to vote for barack obama. that was ugly, you know, the obama team basically accused bill and hillary clinton of being racists after south carolina. the scars were deep. still very deep with president clinton towards barack obama.

so this is politics. this is especially primary politics. she shouldn't ask like she is the first person that has had trouble converting 100% of her opponent. it happens. >> it's worth pointing out there is always this myth that bernie sanders controlled his base. his base enjoyed what bernie sanders stood for and what he said, but they were never supporting hip because he was bernie sanders. they were supporting him because he was the finger in the eye of the establishment. >> he represented a message, a pretty clear one, too. >> she is right. he was not specific about what he would do and how he would pay for it, and she is right that the vitriol directed at her from many of his supporters was quite something. >> well, the vitriol from his supporters to just about everybody that wasn't on bernie's team was intense. >> i heard more negative, intensely things about her from

bernie supporters than trump supporters. >> and bernie not being specific. you get this for free and that for free. you like that building? i give it to you for free! that was a great message. again, everybody out there -- >> sounds like trump. >> that's a challenge for 2020, but why is hillary? she can write about it. >> she did a huge favor saying, i don't want to talk about your speeches. he could have gone to town on that issue. >> he didn't want to talk about her e-mails. he did talk about her speeches. >> not as much. honestly during the debates, he could have gone to town on both of those issues in a way that nobody else could have on a moral level, and he did not. i think he was restrained. >> he did some of that. >> some, but not -- >> there was a moment in the debate where he says, we don't want to talk about your damn e-mai e-mails. you remember that? >> that was actually a mistake. >> total.

a gift. >> she turned it against him and it got dropped. i don't know if that's -- >> well, they actually afterwards, the staff said, oops. he screwed up. he was supposed to go after the e-mails and talk about how her e-mails -- >> david ignatius, it seems for me that the democratic party that the tragedy is too strong of a word, but the misopportunity. the democratic party still after losing 1,000 legislative state seats, there's no governorships. i could go to. losing, 62, 64 house states since 1928. they don't have a governing philosophy or ideas that people can grab hold to. hillary clinton, her strength, her talent, the thing that everybody that's worked with her in the senate said she did better than anybody else was

policy. what a missed opportunity this is to be replaying a campaign in the past instead of helping democrats win in the future. she could do it. >> maybe she could do it. we're still in the season of recrimination, not in the season of building any new base for the democrats. it will be very interesting to see what chuck schumer and nancy pelosi do with this outstretched hand from donald trump. he is accepting that. a suicide move for democrats as they think about the future. it just -- it's so striking that the first really excited democratic party discussion has been about hillary's look back on a race that she dollars for all her abilities to talk about policy, she didn't get done. >> with the lessons to the

democratic party, it's not about policy. find the next transformative figure. that's what happened with ronald reagan and bill clinton. it has to be a face we haven't seen before. they vote on the person. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, phillip. up next, is there anything the u.s. and its allies can do to stop the kremlin's new weapons of war? new information from sources like r.t. and sputnik. our friend from the new york sometimes joins us next.

what's the story behind green mountain coffee and fair trade? let's take a flight to colombia. this is boris calvo. boris grows mind-blowing coffee. and because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm and invest in his community to make even better coffee. all for a smoother tasting cup. green mountain coffee. kevin, meet yourkeviner. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you.

a nation's technology will determine its power. in its economy, in medicine, in science and in national security. one company designs and builds more supercomputers than any other. an american company. hewlett packard enterprise. leading the way to discover... to innovate... and to protect. hewlett packard enterprise. a national asset in supercomputing.

it's very cute. >> we're talking about chickens and roosters. >> i personally know. >> joining us now, "new york times" media columnist --

seriously reconsidering. >> are they edible? >> if you call it chicken, i'll eat it. >> his latest article is the latest cover of the magazine titled -- "r.t., sputnik and russia's new theory of war", and he writes, in part, this. over the last several years, r.t. has come to support the hub of a new state media operation. one that travels through the same online channels, chasing the viral hits and memes as the rest of twitter and facebook age media in the process, russia has built the most effective propaganda operation of the 21st century. so far, one that thrives in the feverish political climates that have descended on many republics. tell us more about what you learned. >> to me, this was an interesting story because we're talking about the subterranean

part of this network. it's what they told us about, and here's our sputnik, and this is what i focused on. they are out in the open, and that's what the intelligence community says, vast network we talking about now on facebook and twitter. they are very open about their aims of rt as they deny everything else. >> how sophisticated were the people you dealt with. one of the big arguments that democrats make is there had to be collusion because there's no way the russians on their own did things they needed to do. are these sophisticated people. >> i think they're plenty sophisticated. who knows if the television will find out anything. is it really hard to figure out. >> how did you find out or what did you find out about apparently the fact that the russians are more forthcoming about how they used our social media than facebook about what the russians did through

facebook. >> i mean, i am still astounded that facebook has now said we found these russian ads, but woour n we're not going to tell you much about this. can you imagine, we spent so much time any shadowy add on investigation could consume journalism. now it's like maybe that happened. it's like i'm shocked how little information we still have about that campaign. >> donny, you know, this is not -- by saying this, i am not endorsing what they are doing. in fact, i'm frightened by what they're doing. i was just going to say that. this is brilliant. you you're a state trying to project power. one eighth of the economy of the united states and one eighth of the economy of china. you're almost boxed into a

corner by talk about getting the biggest bang for your buck. it seems fairly poignant to me in terms of an operation. what putin understands is russia is a brand. countries or corporations and the same way we act shocked they were trying to metal our election. of course they would. it's coke and pepsi. it is for limited -- it's gorilla communications at finest. also understanding how people consume today. this is the way people consume. and to g the scary thing is if i want to do a commercial for laundry detergent on abc, what i have to go through versus anything on facebook, which has the multiple hundred time reach and there is none of that. we have to figure out at least in this kocountry. >> there is a weakness in our

system, jim, and the russians are exploiting it. what's the statistic now. 50% of americans get their news from facebook. >> it's huge. i think that number goes up. >> this would be like russia being able to control walter cronkite's broadcast in the late 60s, early 70s. >> without social media we would not be talking about r the and sputnik. they're ratings on their own are fine. give them a social media lift and. >> their turn on investment on this is incredible. they spend some amount of money, but the amount of influence they've been able to have, leveraging social media is extraordinary. >> you have a question for jim. >> jim, i'm just wondering if you see any significant negatives for the russians in terms of the exposure of these activities. this is a covert action that is now anything, but covert.

their techniques are exposed. cuto cutouts, the people they use to distribute information is exposed. do you think that's going to hurt them in the long run. >> we saw in france that it wasn't automatic. the strategy they appeared to use again. it's not just rt and these other online actors on that and around facebook. they didn't succeed in france. germany there's evidence of merkel heading in that direction, don't see the same level of activity. there's also no indication this is going to stop. the strategy worked so far. >> i'm glad jim brought up france. i'm wondering whether that has backfired in any way. they're very open. putin made an enemy of macron the final week of that campaign and seems like, you know, you shoot at the king, you better kill him. if you don't, you've made an enemy for lifer.

>> i disagree slightly. there has been below back as they say in the intelligence world from the exposure of things and anti-bodies in the system are now much more vigorous to see and fend off russian influence. >> jim, so you finally get this piece behind you. what do you wanted to work on next. >> i'm very interested still in facebook and its continuing story. i think it's a huge. it's our democracy. there's so much we don't know. >> and if we're the only three old enough to answer this question, if the russians had figured out a way to influence the cbs news with walter cronkite, you know, facebook actually has a greater reese than com kite had. i'm saying over 50% of americans get their news from facebook.

tell me, at what point does a better government step in and say you start handling yourself responsibly or we are going step in. >> or we're in trouble. that's a simple answer. the analogy you used. cbs news versus facebook. cbs would tell you what's going on. facebook hasn't. >> you can read jim's piece online. still ahead, this weekend the president saved his typical saturday morning tweets for sunday instead. retweeting inin ining a meme de violence against hillary clinton. plus, no to the president's lawyers. if you're going to talk about the russian investigation, don't do it at a restaurant near the washington bureau of the "new york times." don't do it loudly. and don't talk about -- >> please do do it. do it loudly. >> more on that when morning joe

comes back. needing others. then we are told it's braver to go it alone. ♪ that independence is the way to accomplish. ♪ but there is another way to live. ♪ a way that sees the only path to fulfillment- is through others. ♪ that our time here can be deep beyond measure. ♪ no one who chose interdependence ever found despair. ♪ because what the world taught as weakness, is in fact our greatest virtue. ♪

will people know it means they'll get the lowest price guaranteed on our rooms by booking direct on choicehotels.com? hey! badda book. badda boom! mr. badda book. badda boom! book now at choicehotels.com bring you more ways to helps reduce calories from sugar. with more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all, smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels, and signs reminding everyone to think balance before choosing their beverages. we know you care about reducing the sugar in your family's diet,

and we're working to support your efforts. more beverage choices. smaller portions. less sugar. balanceus.org. another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works in just one week. with the fastest retinol formula to visibly reduce wrinkles. neutrogena®. ♪i'm living that yacht life, life, life top speed fifty knots life on the caribbean seas it's a champagne and models potpourri on my yacht made of cuban mahogany, gany, gany, gany♪ ♪watch this don't get mad (bell mnemonic) get e*trade and get invested

stay with me, mr. parker. when a critical patient is far from the hospital, the hospital must come to the patient. stay with me, mr. parker. the at&t network is helping first responders connect with medical teams in near real time... stay with me, mr. parker. ...saving time when it matters most. stay with me, mrs. parker. that's the power of and. welcome back to morning joe. it's monday, september 18. donny is with us. senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc news, mark. republican strategist is with us. david and nbc news capitol hill correspondent casey hunt. >> so, everybody was saying,

well, maybe trump's made a turn. we didn't hear. you said, there's always a tweet 15 minutes away. there is always a tweet. >> general kelly took a nap. >> there were a number this weekend, of course. the one that has garnered the most attention. what did you think about the golf one. let's jab that. come on. what. >> that's the president of the united states who tweeted out this. mark? >> i don't love that. i don't love it. >> i'm serious. general kelly took a nap. >> no more loops on that. stop. >> that's the president of the united states. the midst of a crisis with north korea. i don't know how to get that tweet. problematic. >> you have again, mika, a guy who again should put the campaign behind him.

he just can't do it. i don't know. it's a bad joke. you have the president of the united states talking about knocking over a woman, his former opponent. >> it's bad on so many levels. i can't think of one way someone would be overreaching or getting up and saying this is abonnable. rude behavior that is beyond unpresidential. i was actually book writing all weekend, going through old trump interviews as well as columns that you wrote. you wrote august of 2016 when candidate trump suggested one way to keep a conservative supreme court would be to assassinate her or federal judges. joe wrote in the "washington post," trump and his supporters have been scrambling wildly all day to explain away the

inexplicable, but they can stop wasting their time. the gop nominee was clearly suggesting that some of the second amendment people, among his supporters, could kill his democratic opponent when she -- were she to be elected. a bloody line has been crossed that cannot be ignored. at long last, donald trump has left the republican party. few options, but to act decisively and get this political train wreck off the tracks before something terrible happens. so this is what you were saying then. i know people feel otherwise. that was following right after the rnc. >> i don't know how much you can warn the republican nominee. >> we've been warning since december 2015 all over the new york -- "the washington post" columns, but, donny, you got the republican party this past week acting shocked. oh, donald trump is talking to democrats. donald trump is -- how could we

have ever seen this coming. the fact is there was warning after warning after warning. and people yesterday saying i can't believe he did that. this was all clear. >> don't be surprise d on anything. >> other republicans quietly sat back, let this guy get the nomination and then find. we warned paul ryan the day that he endorsed donald trump. the day he endorsed donald trump, we said, you just made a terrible mistake. you should have demanded discipline. or not given him your support. and they never did. they can't be surprised now with what they've got. >> like jeff sessions, i feel like an idiot. maybe there was something that happened. >> don't ever say that. being clever and the democrats did all the math. in the reality this weekend. there's no there, there, there for anything. it is the mood.

at the same time, he's talking about rocket man. giving a name to a madman running north korea and to have the cognitive disability to tweet him hitting hillary on the head with a golf ball. you never let me diagnose. i understand on the show. he's not a well guy. you do the dance. it is there is the presidential terre rets. most people have dimmed out donald trump's tweets. they have. they don't care. it's how i feel about tweets at this point from anybody, i don't care. unless you're like my mother. then i'm wondering why you're on twitter. the question is, what about north korea. what about german. what about britain. what about allies. what about enemies.

have they learned to tune out this childish gibberish. or is north korea still focusing on these things. we don't know how north korea reads these tweets. that's one thing that worries people. certainly rocket man knows that he was on the other end of this most recent tweet from the president. this week, donald trump will go to new york, go to institution that he used to attack. and will try to make it his own. he'll give a speech at the u.n. on tuesday. as important to him as the meeting he'll have today. talk about reforming the u.n. with 100 different countries. the whouite house will say the u.n. is listening to us. we made criticisms of corrupt andinefficient ones. trump feels very much excited by, you know, his new outreach

to democrats. i think some of that excitement in new york this week. behind all of that, behind the speech he'll give, meetings, looms this ever more serious crisis with north korea. we have senior officials now saying very directly if this last chance that's offered in the diplomacy opens this week to try to bring china into pressure. if that fails, that the united states sboenintends to turn to military options unspecified. it's a serious a crisis we've seen. in terms of potential use of nuclear weapon. they want a diplomatic solution. everybody finishing they're statement by saying if it doesn't work, general mattis is standing by and we're ready to turn to general mattis.

>> have you heard that from the president before or is that a new one. >> a new one for the president. it reminds me of a cover of the economist a few years ago. portraying him as rocket man. of course that's where the rockets are coming from. rockets that we ought to not laugh much about. they represent a grave threat to everyone. >> yes, they do. thank you very much. >> that's an understatement. this is national security council has been concerned about a possible land war ground war. rocket man is pointing his rockets at u.s. targets and has been demonstrating an ability to use both missile technology and to build an ever more advanced nuclear weapons. may make the president good to

use this jocular terms. he may want to kind of tweak. snoeb should be unclear about how serious this threat is. >> let me ask. it seems the north koreans have surprised us at every turn. we're the country that can't keep electricity on at night. where are they getting this technology to move forward so quickly that suddenly many worry that they may have the ability to put nuclear war head in middle of los angeles fairly soon. where is it coming from? are the chinese aiding them? the russians. pakistan? where are they getting this technology. >> that's one of the mysteries our intelligence agency is looking at. north korea is a target they

have not cracked. they don't know enough about how north korea builds the weapons. it's believed there's some foreign scientists that insist the north koreans are demonstrating plif raters when they master technologies they sell them to make money. they have a network of people that they work with who are part of their supply chain. anybody who wants to dig into this mystery of north korea i would commend. an outstanding journalist spent a week in pyongyang. watching, listening, talking to people. if you want to know more, that's a great place to start. >> what's the biggest danger. according to the intel agencies that you speak with. is it greater danger that north korea uses nuclear technology to fire a nuclear weapon at seattle or portland or san francisco or los angeles or they sell it to isis and it ends up in the form of dirty bomb in time square or

a mall in charlottesville or charleston or wherever. >> i'm just drawing on the comments i hear off former officials. i'd say it's the latter. north koreans are still some months off from actually having that deliverable threat. the rocket and the bomb, it's still appears to be some months away. even when it comes, we're going to have a lot of defenses. one thing i would love to see president do is announce a real crash program to have new ways of taking out these korean missiles when they're first launched. the longer terms danger is they have mastered this technology. they're going to sell it. it's a desperately poor company on back foot. think of all the people who would love to have deadly weapons to use to attack the united states.

they're going to be customers. that is the center of concern, nots just over the next few months, but for the remainder of this presidency and next. still ahead on morning joe. another misstep from one of the president's lawyers. this time caught by a reporter discussing the russia probe. inside a popular washington steak house which is steps away from "new york times." steps, right? >> steps. baby steps. >> we'll talk about the overheard conversation. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> doesn't look good, mika. unfortunately tracking another very strong hurricane. got the latest update from the hurricane center. maria is now strong category two. almost category three already. still has 48 hours to grow stronger before it gets to puerto rico. now is the time in puerto rico. make your final preparations because this could be one of the worst storms in your country's history. yes, history. last time they were hit by a major hurricane was 89.

hu hugo. last time hit by category four or five was 1928. here we go, 110-mile-per-hour winds. now 85 miles east of marten eke. head towards dominica and guadeloupe. then we take a dangerously close to the virgin islands. the red line is where the center line. not to focus on that. could go left or right on that. is going to bring a lot of wind and rain to coastal areas. a lot of huge waves. beach erosion. with this path like this do not have significant impact. as far as the wind go, the strongest wind are expected as we go throughout wednesday morning. there's 8:00 a.m. if you get to the purple, you could lose some power. that's really only areas towards the cape. they're used to the big storms

anyways. jose, inconvenience, maria, possibly another catastrophic hurricane during this incredible season. harvey, irma, maria just at bay for puerto rico and virgin islan islands. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. liberty mutual stood with me when i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. i just snapped a photo and got an estimate in 24 hours.

my insurance company definitely doesn't have that... you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. a mihappy birthday, sweetie! oh, millies. trick or treat! we're so glad to have you here. ♪ what if we treated great female scientists like they were stars? ♪ yasss queen! what if millie dresselhaus, the first woman to win the national medal of science in engineering, were as famous as any celebrity? [millie dresselhaus was seen having lunch today...] ♪ [...rumors of the new discovery...] what if we lived in a world like that? (crowd applauding) ♪

we know a place that's already working on it. ♪ can we at least analyze can we push the offer online? legacy technology can handcuff any company. but "yes" is here. the new app will go live monday? yeah. with hewlett-packard enterprise, we're transforming the way we work. with the right mix of hybrid it, everything computes. every year we take a girl's trip. remember nashville?

kimchi bbq. kimchi bbq. amazing honky tonk?? i can't believe you got us tickets. i did. i didn't pay for anything. you never do. send me what i owe. i've got it. i mean, you did find money to buy those boots. are you serious? is that why you don't like them? those boots could make a unicorn cry. yeah, tears of joy. the bank of america mobile banking app. the fast, secure and simple way to send money.

the president's legal team has had a series of mishaps of late. first, one of the attorneys erupted in a string of profanity laced e-mails to a stranger. >> to a stranger. >> to someone completely unbeknownst to him. >> let me ask you, what adult in the 21st century that's a public figure. >> let me help you with this. >> sends e-mails to trolls. >> i would say the president

does that. >> who does this? like lawyers know. don't put it down in an e-mail. >> this is or president's attorney. good luck. they learn from that. >> in court. another of his lawyer forwarded e-mails. that's bad. when the subject line is the war of northern regression. not going to go in the direction you want. >> cobb asked a journalist if she was on drugs for asking about the firing on james comey. >> why would you do that rick tyler. you know i know, the american people know, any lawyer knows. anybody on the campaign knows. anybody doing work for a political figure knows, if you put it down in an e-mail, it's going to end up in the papers, especially if you're attacking a

journ journalist. >> trump has not had good luck with acquiring shall we say confident legal counsel. makes you wonder about the people he's hired. he likes to do things competent lawyer is willing to do. >> except for the facts. casey, these lawyering tie cobb, they are i believe from what i've heard. respected washington lawyers that should know better. look at their client list through the years. right. these guys didn't just come into town and fall off a turnip struck. >> historically speaking, yes, joe, you're right. however, recent behavior patterns might indicate that perhaps that is no longer the case. as you were just outlining, the one name we have not talked about yet on this program is don mcgahn this morning. he is the person in this "new

york times" story detailing this conversation is cast as theville villain. villen. villain. he's inside the white house adds counsel. that's what the clash seems to be out. these personal lawyers are essentially being asked to answer the question of whether or not the president is going to exert executive privilege or personal attorney-client privilege in the course of the mueller investigation. >> come on. hold on. wait, hold on casey. producers. come on. do not show that. we don't want to see him pulling up his pants. what goes around, comes around. okay. okay. don't do that to somebody. i'm sorry. what's wrong with you. casey. please. >> i appreciate that.

>> that is not cool. >> go ahead. >> mcgahn is on the side of attempting to keep more information private. he wants to invoke the passenger. honestly it's a personal question for mcgahn as well. he's potentially a witness. if the president exerts executive passenger, he may end up more protected. i think what you're seeing is an intense battle between the lawyers. quite frankly, could come at the expense of the president. >> white house counsel don mcgahn and cobb have repo reportically disagreed over the cooperation with the mueller probe. reportedly disagreed over the cooperation with the mueller probe. >> in hopes of ending the investigation. expressed worry about setting a precedent that would weaken the white house after the tenure is

over. cobb was overheard by a reporter for the "new york times" discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a popular washington steak house. cob was heard talking about all white house lawyer. mcgahn had a couple of documents locked in a safe. that he seemed to suggest he wanted to have access to. >> he's saying this. cobb while having a cobb salad, mentioned add colleague whom he blamed for some of these earlier leaks and who he said tried to push jared out. meaning jared kushner. after the times reached out about the overheard conversations, sources tell the paper that chief of staff john kelly. work out differences professionally. the white house, it's about a

block. the lack of discipline. i want to say the lack of any attorney that's practiced law for more than a week knows the lack of discipline shown by this screw staggering. i don't know any other client that and similar circumstances that had something like this happen. they would fire these attorneys immediately. >> it's highest profile case in america right now and they're sitting in public talking about it to each other and voices loud enough to be heard. there's one other detail in that story that i think is important. it says white house officials believe their colleagues might be wearing wires for the independent counsel. just ahead. more on this story with one of the reporters who broke it. "new york times" ken mogul. also maid, sends a message to north korea. new and live fire drills overnight. talk to admiral james. our options in dealing with kim jong-un. morning joe is coming right back. ♪

oh, look... another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® works in just one week. with the fastest retinol formula available.

it's clinically proven to work on fine lines and wrinkles. one week? that definitely works! rapid wrinkle repair®. and for dark spots, rapid tone repair. neutrogena®. see what's possible. ♪ can i get some help. watch his head. ♪

i'm so happy. ♪ whatever they went through, they went through together. welcome guys. life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you.

joining us now, former ally

commander. retired four star navy admiral. he is chief international security diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. admiral, i understand that we have really strong generals in place, but still wonder if -- i'm not sure how they can protect our country from this president, his sweets and his unhinged behavior as it pertains to potentially going to war. well, let's start by setting aside the goofy tweets and let's hope that the marketplace is beginning to really discount those. i find as i travel internationally. more and more people are adopting the position of hey, let's watch what the administration does, not what the president tweets. break, break, we ought to be thinking about here, is that we don't have an on and off switch between do nothing and just sort of accept a situation in north

korea. all out massive military strike. something i'm talking about lately is enable blo kad. this is controversial option. the downside would be the potential for confrontation with chinese and russian ships. if you really look at the number of merchant ships in the world, well over half of them are flagged to countries like the bahamas, marbvast majority are partners and friends of the united states. we have the logistic capability to do this. cutoff the economic component, other than the chinese border. have to continue to deal with china on. i think it's time to do something as opposed to kind of

waiving our hands. >> with respect to the admiral, david, i'll let you ask a question. just tell us the concept they started with which is it may be that president trump's tweets and stupid statements might be sort of losing their whatever, gusto in the marketplace. luring our place in the world and people discounting him. i could see the leader of north korea who is equally potentially imbalanced and hard to predict. reacting badly. >> well, he's been reacting pretty badly. he's been shooting off missiles. and the tweets obviously have the same effect of declaring a red line. they almost force you to take action. i want to ask about the realm of real military alternatives. admiral, i've heard some of your former colleagues saying recently that the president really should announce a crash program to build a system that

could stop north korean missiles in their boost phase. aerial vehicles that would be offshore and have capabilities. do you think that's a good idea? do you think there are other technologies that a year or two from now would make this problem look different. >> i don't think there's a silver bullet here. i do think an increased emphasis on boost face does make sense. i'm not sure i categorized it as a crash program. in extension of the aegis system would be a real advancement. i think the other big zone of potential improvement, david, is cyber. so alongside a naval block aida. you could use it selectively in ways that would undermine the confidence in north korea's ability to launch the missiles because a part of what he is

doing is salesman ship. he wants to be able to sell that technology abroad. i think there are real advantages of cyber alongside the missile defense and merry time option. coming up, much more on the wrestling among the president's legal team on how to handle the russia investigation in public. plus, the threat of big tech. takes on what he's calling the fake populism of silicone valley. he's great. he joins the table next.

marie callender knows that a homemade turkey dinner can make anyone slow down and pull up a seat to the table. that's why she takes the time to season her turkey to perfection, and make stuffing from scratch. so that you can spend time on what really matters. marie callender's. it's time to savor. ♪ stare with me into the abyss ( ♪ )

♪ stare with me into the abyss we are ordering you to land immediately. alright boys, let's land. what is he? [ car horn honks ] that's for your bike. you never saw me. [ bell rings ] i was working for the c.i.a. and pablo escobar. who thought that was gonna be a problem? [ upbeat music playing ] there are bills blowin' around the backyard. i'll rake it up in the mornin'. shoot the gringo! it gets crazy from here. american made. rated r. it's ok that everybody ignoit's fine.n i drive. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. and i don't share it with mom! right, mom?! righhht. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it. you don't let anything lkeep you sidelined. come on! that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein, and 26 vitamins and minerals... for the strength and energy, to get back to doing what you love. ensure, always be you.

i move for a bad court thing. >> you mean a mistrial. >> yes. that's why you're the judge and i'm the law talking guy. >> the lawyer. >> right. >> >> tseems two members of

president trump's legal team may have recently taken a page out of the playbook. we were discussing earlier in the hour, cobb and dowd caught discussing details of the russian investigation. only one table away from them, joining us now is times reporter who witnessed the lunch date and will have no problem getting expense account approved. ken vogel, also with us, white house correspondent for the washington examine. staff writer. we'll get to frank's new book in a moment. ken, let me ask you something. first of all, what did you have for lunch and how astounded were you that these two were speaking as loudly about something as sensitive as they were talking about. >> well, i had to the tuna

salad. i highly recommend. right next to the times bureau i should add a few doors down. it's perhaps doubly astounding they would have this conversation at this restaurant where a number of power players are known to lunch. also reporters are known to lunch and times reporters in particular. it was -- i'm surprised that they were going into such detail about the russia investigation. i was actually meeting a source there. had a lunch with the source. i bid the source adieu. i said i'm going to hang out here for a minute and kind of took notes on my iphone as they went into detail about very critical issues, including this question of executive privilege and how much -- how sort of you know aggressive to be and either invoking privilege or in producing documents without invoking privilege to bob

muler's team, special counsel's team. would that jeopardize ability to invoke privilege later either in this investigation, in any subsequent dealings or my understanding is don mcgahn, the white house counsel believes that producing documents that might otherwise be able to have a privilege claim put on them could jeopardize the ability of future presidents to a certain passenger. >> you wrote the story. i have 103 questions, but i'm only going to ask three of them. were they talking in a controversial voice, two, what happened when you confronted the white house with what you had heard and talk about what you write in the story, white house officials believe colleagues might be wearing wires for bob mueller. >> the cko conversional tone wa

pretty loud. i heard cobb. it was able to cut through the sounds of the sidewalk. on the sidewalk seating. cars going by. people walking by. wasn't just me. anyone who recognized these guys and add cobb is a pretty recognizable guy, would be able to potentially eves drop as well. as to what the white house said, once we let it be known that we were asking questions about the substance of the conversation, once we let it be known how we were aware of the substance of the conversation, that precipitated a conversation in which don mcgahn and john kelly the chief of staff expressed their displeasure with cobb for this indiscretion. >> talking a about colleagues might be wearing wires. >> there's deep distrust on this legal team. it started back with previous t

iteration of the legal team. believed to be leaking to the press. he was believed to have been or some of the lawyers on the team were believed to have tried to force jared kushner to step down because they thought that having him continuing in the white house would potentially compromise their ability to defend him and the president at the same time, different lawyers defending them and you have different competing prerogatives here. or rather imperatives here among these lawyers who while they're all sort of on the same page, that is lawyers for kushner and manafort and trump and flynn, they're defending against the counsel. there are efforts. if you listen to people who have followed this to potentially put pressure on some of these people to turn on other people so the lawyers themselves are ware of each other and it's understandable that they are. you see the potential problems as the lack of trust of someone

if it's believed that one of the lawyers is leaking or one of the lawyers in this case is just unable to handle sensitive information in a way that can be trusted and doesn't wind up on the front page of the "new york times times times.". >> thank you for dropping by for dessert for us. appreciate it. you have a piece in the washington examiner. not that the legal profession needs a growth spurt, but everybody seems in the white house needs to be lawyered up. >> exactly. more than a dozen people have had to go out and get one lawyer to help them navigate. not just the special council probe. the multiple investigations going on on capitol hill. particularly for former aids no longer benefitting for affiliation, still had to hire lawyers. it's been difficult. they're having trouble finding jobs and making money. they're also saddled with five or six figure legal bills. for those folks, it's personally

insulting on another level. president trump is so wealthy himself and had no offer of help either from the trump organization, from the family, from the rnc, the white house. it's difficult for them to navigate this. i talked to one man who had to liquidate his child's college fund for work he performed months ago. >> every day there are surprises in the trump administration. one of the things we don't pay a lot of attention to is this could be financially catastrophic to a lot of people working in the white house. >> and reputationly catastrophic. so it's easy to tabulate the cost to somebody right now in the immediate terms when they're paying lawyer bills. will these people who are lawyers and partners at firms and go to work in the white house get taken back by their firms. will the ceos at fortune 500 companies want to hire people who are alumni of the

administration. that question of the cost of working in the administration will become all become apparent in the short-term. it will reduce the talent. they weren't able to hire the best and brightest to begin with in a lot of cases. that will only get worse as things go on. >> speaking of the best and brightest, your new book, frank's new book. the world without mind. you write i hope this book doesn't come across as fuelled by anger. i don't want to deny my anger either. the deck companies are destroy something precious, the possibility of contemplation. they have created a world in which we're constantly watched and always distracted. that is so interesting. one of the things that i think many people wonder about. especially if you're a parent. not to pick on just google. what is google doing to curiosity. to young people's curiosity.

they google everything. the parenting question is crucial. we all have this sensation. we can see how we're distracted. we check our phones 200 times a day. that's not an compassionexagger it's what it is. we get these notifications and we're not able to sustain thought. we understand we're being manipulated. we know this is just a prologue. we're in the middle of technical revolution that's incredible, but really we're at the early stage. my book is about we've always had tools. we've always had technology. those have been incredibkrebcres of human ingenuity. right now we're crossing thresholds. they' they shape the way we process reality.

we're going to be inhabiting virtual realities they create. merging with machines. not just merging with machines. we're merging with machines that are operated by corporations that have a certain set of values and want to keep us addicted to these. >> here's the dark underbelly as a parent. there's a study that since smartphones came around. not phones, the year 2012. incidences of teenage depression is up 50%. 40% less teenagers are working. 40% are doing less physical activity. you just go wow. it's scary. when you have children, the stress level, they're constantly being graded, how many likes do they have. constantly seeing what they're not a part of. dinner, my last night dinner with my kids is every ten minutes put the phone down. i have a tick. dad you're on your phone. it's frightening. it's really, really scary. >> we're guinea pigs in this incredible experiment. these have vast amount of data

evidence. they know the inside of our mind better than us. they create these products in order to addict us. facebook is the classic example. so facebook is this giant feedback. they basically want to give you what you want in order to keep your clicking. you get all this information. politics it's clear enough they contribute to this filter bubble where we're getting stuff we agree with and getting sent further and further into our own corner when it comes to politics. even when it comes to health and other things, they're exploiting our emotions. they're giving us stuff designed to terrify us and create. >> i get vie ag ra ads all the time. should i be concerned about that. >> is there anything you hard wire the brain differently. >> my book is not about the science of the companies. it's about what happens when we

become dependent on the companies and how that i recall values end up becoming our values in ways that we can't necessarily perceptively see. in journalism, it's clear. we all rely on facebook for traffic and revenue. we end up constantly adapting to appease facebook. facebook says they want more video, if you're a news site. you say how much video can we give you. >> facebook, google, silicon valley. what's the factor. >> what makes these companies interesting is their idealistic. they want to change the future of the world. we need to take their ideas seriously because these guys want to change the course of human evolution. they want to change the way that we interact with one another. >> why is that the answer of henry ford. >> sara, what are you working on this week. >> looking at president trump an

the u.n. going to be really fascinating to see how he brings this america first, american alone sometimes ideology to what is the belly of the beast as one analyst put it in terms of globalism at the u.n. >> sara, thank you very much. frank's boom is the world without mind, the existential threat of big tech. thanks for being here. up next, is what's happening now in washington with the trump administration carrier than it was during watergate? we'll speak with a journalist who perhaps knows better than anyone about washington then versus washington now. wait, what, what happened? i was having a good round, and then my friend, sheila, right as i was stepping into the tee box mentioned a tip a pro gave her. no. yep. did it help? it completely ruined my game. well, the truth is, that advice was never meant for you. i like you. you want to show me your swing? it's too soon. get advice that's right for you. investment management services from td ameritrade.

you're more than just a bathroom disease.. you're a life of unpredictable symptoms. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before or during treatment, always tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare,

potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. we're fed up with your unpredictability. remission can start with stelara®. talk to your doctor today. janssen wants to help you explore cost support options for stelara®. tap one little bumper and up go your rates. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance. [fbi agent] you're a brave man, your testimony will save lives. mr. stevens? this is your new name. this is your new house. and a perfectly inconspicuous suv. you must become invisible. [hero] i'll take my chances.

what's the story behind green mountain coffee and fair trade? let's take a flight to colombia. this is boris calvo. boris grows mind-blowing coffee. and because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm and invest in his community to make even better coffee. all for a smoother tasting cup. green mountain coffee. at bp's cooper river plant, employees take safety personally - down to each piece of equipment, so they can protect their teammates and the surrounding wetlands, too. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. a nation's technology will determine its power. in its economy, in medicine, in science and in national security. one company designs and builds more supercomputers than any other. an american company. hewlett packard enterprise. leading the way to discover... to innovate... and to protect. hewlett packard enterprise. a national asset in supercomputing.

on friday's show, we had "washington post" columnist sally quinn join us at the table. we ended up focusing on the incredibly moving piece she wrote about her late husband. so we kept the cameras rolling after the show to dig into sally's great new book "finding magic." as well as how today's political climate stacks up when she and ben witnessed watergate. >> the day that nixon resigned, ben went around the newsroom and he said no gloating. this is a sad day. and i actually was on the white house lawn that day when nixon got on the helicopter and drove away and i cried. i cried. and i was not a nixon supporter. but he said this is not a great day for this country. that night, we had nothing to do and day graham didn't either and

she said, can we go out to dinner? we went to a little hamburger joint in georgetown, the three of us, and we just said we don't want anybody seeing us drinking champagne tonight because this is not a happy day for this country. >> casey. >> at the risk of asking the obvious, what parallels do you see between those kind of attacks you were just talking about on the paper, the tv stations and ways gois what's g now with the president of the united states? >> well, it's similar. i really think what's going on now is worse than watergate. the one thing you can say about nixon is he was brilliant, he was experienced. he had been in the senate and he had been vice president and he was a foreign policy expert. he wasn't a crazy person. but he was a crook. i mean, he was dishonest. and that's what brought him down. but i think what's happening today in washington is far scarier. because for one thing, the whole

russian part of this administration, whether it's collusion or not. i mean, then you're walking into an area where you can call it treason if there was any collusion with the russians so i think that is a really serious part of it. but i also think during the nixon administration there was a cover-up but there was not this kind of chaos. and the people around him were -- the close circle of people around him were not good people but he had a lot of good people working in his administration. but in this situation, it is complete chaos and there's no direction and there's a lack of decency and a lack of honesty that i have never seen before. i mean, somebody asked me the other day about washington. i said it's like breathing in carbon monoxide and you can't see it and you can't smell it but you know it's killing you. and that's the atmosphere of washington right now. it is really toxic.

it is -- washington is a spiritual hardship post. >> the advent of twitter has allowed us to see the process by which journalists approach a story in a way we didn't see it a while back. you see debates and discussions unfiltered by editors about how to address stories, emotionally, committed, human interest story, politics, is this horse race? did those debates occur? to what extent were they shaping the news when you were working with ben and in the newsroom? or is that something sort of novel and -- >> i have to say ben was a completely undeo li, uni deo logical person. his idea was let's go get the story, get it first but get it right. and that is what he cared about. and that's what people ask me now what would ben think about what was going on in washington and with the trump

administration. and he would be conflicted because he would say this is a great story, let's get it first and get it right, but he would also be extremely upset and concerned about what was happening to our country. but ben was a patriot. and so that was -- that was what drove him. the first amendment was his religion. and i think that his sense of patriotism would have carried the day. and i'm very -- i'm like you, i'm very optimistic about this country. i think that we have to go through this period. it's a difficult period for us. washington is really horrible place to live right now. but i think that the american people are decent, honest, kind, generous people. i do not think what's happening now is representative of who we are as a country. and i think, like vietnam, and i have a whole chapter in my book which was a turning point for me in my life and i was in the mild

of the '60s all the way. but i think we're going through a similar period now and we're going to come out better and stronger. >> our conversation with "the washington post" sally quinn. you can watch the full interview at our website at joe/msnbc.com. we want to remind everybody that tomorrow morning it's our special show. marking ten years of "morning joe." yes, friends, you, your children and loved ones can relive the biggest stories and the biggest moments from the past ten years. if you're the 13th caller, you'll get rice a ronni, the san francisco treat. all the faces you've come to know and we'll be joined by some big guests like new york city's mayor, also mayor michael bloomberg, new jersey governor chris christie, all from historic studio 8-h here at rockefeller center before a live studio audience. >> stephanie ruhle picks up the

coverage right now. see you tomorrow. >> thanks so much. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover today. starting with a show of force. the u.s. and its asian allies flying bombers over the korean peninsula. as president trump arrives in new york for the u.n. general assembly. with the world on edge of a possible war. >> if the united states has to defend itself or defend its allies in any way, north korea will be destroyed and none of us want that. >> violence in the show me state. protests turn ugly in st. louis after a white police officer is acquitted in the shooting death of a black man and more protests expected today. >> the people who did this are not protesters. they're vandals. today, they're in jail. >> this one breaks my heart. triple threat. three massive storms swirling right now in the atlantic. hurricane maria taking direct aim at caribbean islands which have already been