now. >> k.t., thanks. have a great rett of your afternoon. good afternoon. i'm ali velshi. how is the president who believes in america first philosophy going to face off against the world? >> we must ensure that no one and no member state shoulders a disproportionate share of the burden. and that's militarily or financially. >> all right. the president delivering his first comments this morning at an event aimed at reforming the united nations, but will the president carry that same tone tomorrow which he addresses the 193-member organization, or is, will his temper -- is he tempering his america first remarks? and america needs help of others with not only the north korean crisis, but getting ready to meet with the french president

macron, the paris accord, the last time they met, a little awkward. begin with hallie jackson outside of trump tower. hallie, donald trump getting ready for a meeting with president macron. what's going on? >> reporter: yeah. listen, we know that the paris climate agreement is likely to come up. we've heard just this morning the president's top economic adviser reiterate that, yes, in fact, the united states did want to pull out of the paris agreement, unless, ali, this is where it gets crucial, right? unless the terms can be renegotiated that it is more in the administration the view fair to the united states. there's not a lot of quantification behind that, a lot of concrete numbers about what that actually means but i think it's notable this is coming up on day one of the united nations general assembly as the president heads into that meeting with emmanuel macron. his second, what we call bilateral, one-on-one discussion with a world leader. the first happened a couple hours ago meeting with the israeli president, benjamin netanyahu.

you might think middle east peace topic number one and as a matter of fact the president expressed need for negotiations between the israelis and palestinians but it is less of a focus here today than it has been for, for example, past administrations and instead the meeting between netanyahu and donald trump focused more on the iranian nuclear deal. here's what the prime minister had to say. >> i look forward to discussing with you how we can address together what you rightly call the terrible nuclear deal with iran, and how to roll back iran's growing aggression in the region, especially in syria. >> mr. president, do you plan to stay in the iran nuclear deal. >> you're out. let's go. right now. >> reporter: tricky at the end, but donald trump talked how he wants a decision very soon, will be announcing what he plans to do with the nuclear deal soon, deadline coming up, and playing into the gigantic topic hovering

over the united nations general assembly, threat of a nuclear north korea. in particular after think missile test most recently, after the test of what north korea claimed was a hydrogen bomb even after the president threatened fire and fury. and looking forward to tomorrow, a speech already written to see who exactly he, in the words of ambassador haley, slaps and hugs? slap north korea, hug israel. we'll watch to see how the rest fills out. >> talk to jane harmon, some people worry if the president is opening the iran nuclear deal dealing with a troubling north korean situation at the same time. you and i are in the same city. looking forward to seeing you several times this week in person. hallie jackson in front of the trump tower. you don't get the impression traffic is as bad as it is, but it is. 120 world leaders and top diplomats is of utmost concern

for the new york police department and getting help from other agencies like the fbi, secret service and home land security. stephanie gosk is just outside the united nations a few blocks from here. stephanie, every year one of the biggest concerns are protests. how are police handling all of this? >> reporter: it adds and extra layer of complication. you know here in new york city, since president trump became president, we've had a lot of protests. another one later on today in a couple of hours. rise and resist planning an anti-white supremacy march that begins at 5:00 at grand central, marching up to trump tower, adding mother layer of complication. already on to what is a remarkable security situation here and remarkable not just for the scale of this operation, also because, as you said, this happens every single year, and security in new york city is complicated as it is. add the 190-plus member states, and their delegations, add the protests, add president trump, and it gets even more

complicated. the nypd wrapped up a press conference earlier today, and they said that there are no credible threats against the united nations this week. they also added that they have increased their presence on the subways here in new york city, and that's in direct relation to that attack last week in london. that failed attack, really, in london that could have been far more serious. certainly something they're worried about here. you see the police presence in midtown today. if you've walked around, all over the place. whether the skies, on the streets. also here on the east river. the people not familiar with the geography of the united nations in new york city, the east river runs alongside it. you have high-speed patrol boats that are out on the river as well as scuba teams making sure there are no explosive devices put alongside the river banks. ali? >> stephanie, every year on this monday i feel like i can get around it and figure it out. not always as bad as it is and you head out and traffic, three minutes, realize, oh, yeah.

the u.n. is in town. stephanie, thanks. we'll be close to you. stephanie gosk a few blocks over at the united nations. a closer look at what this week is at the united states. biggest event on president trump's schedule is his address tomorrow. the general assembly speech. we expect as hallie said, talking about north korea, iran, fight against terror. wednesday there is a chance for nations to sign the treaty on prohibition of nuclear weapons. the president's also expected to meet with parties who negotiated the iran nuclear deal. i want to skip over to wednesday and where, who we'll hear from. rouhani, iranian president, already warned it would be very bad for the united states to get out of the nuclear deal. we don't know what "very bad" means. that's what he said. moon jae-in, south korean very new president in south korea will be here and japanese prime minister shinzo abe. these two gentlemen very involved what's going 0en in north korea now. notable absence, key allies,

germany, shing ping and vladimir putin and of course, kim jong-un not here. and counter terrorism, isis, other groups, the united nations reform is very big on this administration's agenda and humanitarian assistance particularly for refugees and the communities that host them. for more on all of this joined by jane harmon, president and ceo of the woodrow wilson center, expert on national security. not only as a member of the state debit foreign policy board and also a former california congresswoman serving on the armed services and homeland security committees and a great pleasure to have you, jane, with us right here in studio. >> in person. >> in person. i love it. first of all, the big issue here. donald trump's first u.n. and donald trump continues to be unpredictable when he makes

speeches relating to foreign policy. you got, hallie jackson saying the speech is written. what are you looking for donald trump to say and do? >> well, i'm hoping that he will explain as mike pence does, the vice president, that america first does not mean america alone. he's on a huge stage with people who will either work with him or work against him and stakes are enormously my on north korea, for example. let me just say north korea is a foreign minister failure for the last three administrations. clinton's deal didn't go far enough. bush repudiated the deal and obama focused elsewhere. he's the fourth president addressing this and made it the highest priority. i commend him for that. now he has to execute in a way that brings the world with him and doesn't split up the world. >> a surprise given the rhetoric of donald trump about the united nations during his campaign, that not only has he put a, a u.n. ambassador there who's been very, very engaged and involved, but he's not shying away from

him doing that thing calling them irrelevant. he's actually trying to use the u.n., i think, to his ends? >> give nikki haley -- she came here, learned fast. she was the governor of south carolina. i don't think this was her focus for most of her career but she's listened ltz ee eed the, respe. measures are tough, but that's the president she works for. >> they are engaged, within the construct of the united nations? >> very much within the construct and i think she probably play add role getting him to be in the same sandbox with others. this week, we'll see how it gets executed. today, for example, he met with some on u.n. reform and said other nations need to do more but not the u.s. is cutting its investment and going home and taking our little -- >> that's the important

distinction. a lot of people feel the u.n. could use reform but a line between reform and getting out of it. back to north korea a second. a lot of countries probably share america's concerns about north korea and would be likely to align with the president on some things but they must be concerned about his unorthodox way of doss thinking, tweeting, on-again/off-again stuff with china, discussions about a trade war with south korea. it welcomes very confusing? >> yes, it does. i'm guessing john kelly and others are telling him, stop the tweets. let us review the tweets and calling kim jong-un rocket man seems to be not helpful. >> he tweeted this out over the weekend, calling him rocket man. >> and the statements of our secretary of defense or tough and measured. and the people at the wilson center think containment. they're not giving up their nuclear weapon but we hope not

only not use it but not proliferate it. stakes for them are huge. why are they developing this weapon? i think it is for regime preservation. they want to preserve their regime. they can't use it. >> talk about iran. there are some people -- again, a lot of people who think it wasn't the world's best deal but achieved something in iran. two people talking this morning, benjamin netanyahu and donald trump, don't share that view at all. and are really hope to have a strong position from the united nations about pulling out of the iran deal. two questions here. one is, this wasn't just a u.s. deal. >> right. >> two is, we have another nuclear, possibly more real nuclear threat in north korea. so how to handle the iran versus north korea issue? >> well, people need to understand as rob of the wilson center has written this was a transaction, not a transformation. this deal didn't cover and sadly doesn't cover iran's other behavior in the region which is terrible. so we should increase sanctions against iran's use of proxies to

terrorize the region and not repudiate the deal. they're not violating the deal. intelligence agency said they're not violating the deal and p5+1, six countries including us to made the deal aren't walking away from it. you just said, ali, make things worse in the region and certainly make kim jong-un's after rint behavior be even more destabilized. >> one of the things rex tillerson said last week was iran may be living up to the letter of the agreement but not the spirit of it, because of its involvement with proxies, as you say, in yemen, in lebanon, in other parts of, in syria and other parts -- >> we hoped iran's behavior would change in the region's it hasn't. i still think the deal, although not perfect, was the right thing to do. at least it caps iran's nuclear capacity for 15-plus years and if you listen to people like ernie, the past secretary of energy, instrumental in selling the deal, caps it forever.

>> jane, good to see you in person. thanks so much for your analysis. jane harmon, president and ceo of the woodrow wilson center. form are congresswoman from california. two top executives at equifax, not the two, two top executives at equifax retire. whatever that means. alleviates few concerns as they work to recover from the worst date breach in history. guy got e in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

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equifax at the company continues to gravel with the biggest fwleech history exposing the personal identifying information of at least 143 million american, the company the chief information officer and chief security officer are out. these so-called retirements come after a storm of criticism over equifax's data loss and delay in norming the public. they're being investigated, the breach. and senators calling for hearing and asking the security exchange commission to investigate the other things going on. i want to hold on to that and go to the palace hotel here in new york where president trump and president macron are meeting and pick of you the eck if a faquif minute. >> -- an exciting evening that i watched every moment of it.

it was a very, very exciting time. he's doing a terrific job in france. he's doing what has to be done. he's respected by the french people, and i can tell you, he's respected by the people of the united states. so we have a lot of things to talk about. we'll be discussing -- many different elements. i'm not sure we should discuss all of it with the media, but they'll probably know before we know. i just want to thank you all for being here and i want to thank your representatives for being here, many of whom i know formally and we will have very productive meetings. san francisco a great country. it's a beautiful country. i won't soon forget our dinner on top of the eiffel tower where we really got to know one another and our families and thank very much. >> thank you, donald. thank you, everybody. i would say a few words -- to concur what was said. i will just say a few words in

french for the french people here. [ speaking in french ] [ speaking in french ] [ speaking in french ]

>> well, thank you very much, emmanuel. i do want to say i was your guest as ba steele bastille da. it was one. greatest parades i've ever seen. and tremendous for france and for the spirit of france, and people don't know what great warriors they are in france, but when you see that and you see all the victories, it was a tremendous day, and to a large extent because of what i witnessed, we may do something like that on july 4th in washington down pennsylvania avenue. i don't know. we're going to have to try and top it, but we have a lot of planes going over and a lot of military might, and it was really a beautiful thing to see, and representatives from different wars and different uniforms. it was really so well done, but i came back and one of my early

calls were, i think we have to start looking at that ourselves. so we're actually thinking about fourth of july, pennsylvania avenue, having a really great parade to show our military strength and we've, we're spending this year $700 billion more than we've ever spent on our military, which is a good thing for you, because we're friends. okay? and -- i think we really -- we're looking forward to doing that. i'm speaking with general kelly, and with all of the people involved and we'll see if we can do it this year, but we certainly will be beginning to do that. so i appreciate it, and, again, most importantly, i appreciate you being here. thank you. >> thank you. and i have to say just for american people, that our people in france were very proud to have you and your wife melania in france for bastille day.

thank you very much, mr. president. >> i was very proud to be there, and when emmanuel called me he said, it's the 100th year in terms of timing, first world war. 100 years. i said, wow. that's a very important period. so we went, and, really, i was very proud to say that we are very, very, very good friends with france. that was beautiful day and thank you very much. thank you. >> thank you, everybody. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> mr. president, what are your plans with regards to the paris climate acards? >> thank you all very much. thank you. >> mr. president, your paris climate -- >> all right. #buddi #buddingbromance. president trump and president macron telling each other how much they really like each other, dinners on top of the eiffel tower and bastille day parade.

just getting on in their meeting. opening comments during u.n. week. we'll be keeping track of a lot of these. we don't know if there will be news. remarkable expressions of love in this case between america and france and their leaders. back to the equifax conversation i had just before that. joining me, pennsylvania's attorney general josh shapiro among the 30-plus attorneys general investigating equifax. thank you for being with us. >> good to be with you. >> this is -- it's sort of hard to put these in perspective, because people feel they lose their information a lot. this has a different feel tore it for a couple reason. one, equifax is keeping your information. not an incident's hack of some or business that incidentally has your information and, two, the manner in which the company handled this has a lot of people scratching heads? >> exactly right. as opposed to the target breach, for example. >> right. >> in this case, these guys are suppose to protect your

information. what we know, they not only didn't protect your information, it was hacked. they waited six weeks to tell you about it, and as you have reported many times, their company executive sold stock and once they let it know, played it nearly impossible for the 143 million americans and 6 million pennsylvanians affected by this to freeze their credit, get answers to questions and the lovefest you see at the u.n., instead, a bunch of frustration by people across the country with equifax. >> a few different issues. how did it happen, did they do enough to protect the information of the people whose information it has? that's awkward to say, because i can't say its clients. it's not fair to call me an equifax client, because i had no choice in my relationship with them. >> you're forced. right. >> they had an obligates to people but it's not a two-way

street. i don't have any to force them or the credit agencies to behave a certain way? >> that's where i come in as an attorney general and my 22 attorney general colleagues work wig me on this investigation. we're going to get to the bottom of the breach and try to change corporate behave perp the behavior of equifax and the other two unions to up their game as well and be able to protect your information going forward. >> there are circumstances under which executives can sell stocks on a scheduled basis, where it doesn't tie in -- a lot of executives do this, to escape the idea that someone suggests they sold their stock in a wrong moment in time. what do we have to know about executives who sold stock in equifax two days after the breach? they said executives weren't aware of the breach at the time, leading to all sorts of other questions. how can a company whose job is information security not have its executives know about a massive breach? >> i find that hard to believe, but even if you accept that at face value, it's deeply, deeply troubling. this is the biggest breach, as

you've said, ever, in the h history of this country bringing federal and state law officials in to investigate it. the fact the executives claim they didn't know is shocking. that piece of the investigation is being handled by the fcc. we are focused on protecting citizens in our states, making sure will are answers and as they go through the process to freeze credit and get answers. it's not a frustrating costly process for them. >> let me finally ask you about the delay in reporting. we've heard this from other companies. find out about a breach and don't tell the public. as a person whose information was lost, i want to know as fast as possible, to do all things necessary. my credit ruined is really hard. >> there are 48 different state laws right now on when a state needs to be notified. typically the company does it when it's practical or reasonable. i think we need here is federal law that says, immediate response. so that people have an

opportunity to know exactly what happened, when it happened and take steps to protect themselves. look, our investigation will get to the bottom of this. we will hold equifax accountable and elevate corporate behavior but need our federal partners to go and pass you whats that actually make it harder for these breaches to occur and when they do, to know we can get answers quickly. >> unfortunately, one bill before congress is actually to weakenen penalties that credit reporting agencies v. long way to go. >> you and i will make a pledge to viewers we'll stay on this. the story is not going to blow away. this is real important. thank you for being here. >> you've been on top of it from day one. >> we'll stay that way. >> josh shapiro, attorney general of pennsylvania. breaking news from the pentagon on north korea. secretary of defense talking a be military options its considering. that after the break. you're watching msnbc. stay with us.

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currents while hurricane maria now a category 3 threatens to strike the same caribbean islands already devastated by irma. here with the latest forecast is "today" show's al roker. al, hard to imagine. i'm fine with rain up here on the northeast, but so hard to imagine maria going for puerto rico, maybe touching, affecting, the u.s. virgin islands? >> and that's the exact case, ali, because these places have just been devastated, and there is no place to hide, no place to shelter. from the lesser antilles into the virgin islands, into puerto rico's puerto rico hasn't had a direct hit since 1998, with georges, and this could be very much like hugo in 1989. so we have lee out here. that's a tropical depression breaking up and not a big deal, but we are watching jose that's -- not going to make landfall right now. doesn't look like it. look how big the sprawl from

this is? from cape hatteras up to boston and nantucket, looking at clouds and seeing a lot of action along the shorelines, southern-facing shorelines right now. category 1 hurricane. 265 miles east-southeast of cape hatteras. 75 mile-per-hour winds, north at 9. what this will do, basically run parallel to the coast with 70 to 75 mile-per-hour winds, but what it's doing is piling water in. wind in. and so we're going to see beach erosion over the next 72 hours. from ocean city all the way up into nantucket, with possible coastal flooding. and then it takes kind of a loop and kind of hangs out here. so once that happened, all bets are off. nothing really to kick that thing out. we're going to watch that. tropical storm watches basically from the delmarva peninsula to montauk and up into boston, almost, tropical storm warnings. watching this very closely.

this win, maria. this could be a potential monster. you've noticed in the last few frames you start to see an eye develop right there. that means this thing is intensifying and probably going to intensify rather rapidly. so here's the latest on maria. a category 3 storm as of 2:00. 45 miles east-northeast of martinique. here's the track. comes across the leeward islands late tonight into tomorrow. strengthening to a category 4. just before it hits puerto rico, winds could be at 150 miles per hour, ali, and you notice, again, the worst place to be for a hurricane is that northeastern quadrant. look where puerto rico is in relationship to that line. now, again, we tell people. you've got to pay attention to the cone of uncertainty. it could track a little south. could track a little north, but right now, this is what the national hurricane center is

putting out by wednesday morning at 8:00 a.m. cuts across espanola, makes its way towards the turks and caicos, friday morning, category 4 storm still. storm surge stretching from puerto rico up into the lesser antilles. i should say into the turks and caicos and the bahamas, we could be talking about a storm surge of anywhere from 5 to 12 feet on top of what's already there. anywhere from 8 to 16 inches of rain, and, again, those hurricane force winds continue, and then as we move into saturday morning, it starts to make a bit of a curve as a category 3 basically to the east of the bahamas, but this is still, that's five days out, ali. a lot can change between now and then and we can't rule out the southeastern united states, but right now, we're mostly concerned from the leeward islands in to the turks and caicos. >> al, thanks for your guidance. the "today" show's al roker on our show right now.

the u.s. virgin islands are getting ready for a second major hit, al just said, st. thomas, st. john, main focus for fema efforts after hurricane irma decimated the land and left both islands almost entirely without power. the congresswoman of the u.s. virgin islands delegates joins me now. congresswoman, thank you for keeping us close to you about the things you've been doing. you've been to the virgin islands twice in the last two weeks? >> i went down, was on all three of the islands. spent quite a bit of time on st. thomas and st. john, you saw, the ones most decimated, was able to be in touchky your colleague stephanie while down there and got to see her on the island of st. john. maria will be touching down, as you said, touching down in the virgin island in the next 24 hours. what we're really concerned with right now is that maria is a very strong hurricane and it's going to be passing south of the

island of st. croix. st. croix has really been the base camp now for a lot of the relief efforts, because it had not been hit previously, and a hit to st. croix with those north bands, as al roker was talking, is really going to be very, very difficult for ow islands to recover from. >> i want to talk to you, congresswoman, about the effect and recovery. tourism is a, a very major part of the economy in the virgin islands and, in fact, stephanie pointed out, there may be a percentage one might ascribe to tour pit tourism. many businesses are dependent on tourism because they serve the people working because there is a tourist industry. what is the best way to bring recovery back to the virgin islands? >> thanks so much. we are going to miss that season of tourism. some of it will be absorbed by the island of st. croix, depending on how its hit, but

that's going to be a huge hit to our economy. we lost our largest employer several years ago which was an oil refinery, and we've become deeply dependent on tourism. my concern, why i'm back here in washington right now is what is the relief package going to look like? is there going to be infrastructure for the virgin islands? is there going to be the discussion of the maintenance of our economies? particularly in light of the that can't if a congress has up until now been very negligent of the territories and their treatment of them. the disparity in how we receive funding is something that i'm really concerned with in how we, they are disbursing monies for recovery as well. >> and good to talk to you. thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> congresswoman representing the u.s. virgin islands. we'll stay in close touch throughout the upcoming hurricane maria. and talking about james mattis talking possible military options regarding north korea. we have breaking details in the

pentagon. hans, what's this about? >> reporter: secretary mattis stopped by outside of our office and struck a somber tone talking about potential military options on north korea. asked if there are military options that would not put seoul at risk, and he said, there are options. i don't want to go to the details right now. at another point, he said, ambassador haley a direct quote, ambassador hayley is correi hal. many military options -- he paused, with our allies's he discussed with a defense minister from south korea, here at the pentagon last week, that they discussed the possibility of putting tactical nuclear weapons back into south korea. he confirmed that earlier. there was a report out from the south korean side and we have confirmation from secretary mattis tactical nukes are being considered to put back into that country and then also when asked on why they didn't shoot down -- why the u.s. or japanese or south koreans shoot down that

last missile that flew over on september 14th, the one lofted over hokkaido, he says they assessed it not a threat. if they assess it a threat they're going to go ahead and shoot it down. so we just had a lot of news from secretary mattis. i know a lot is happening up in new york, at the united nations up in your end woods, ali, and he confirmed the number of additional troop s were going t afghanistan. he said over 3,000. said ton the record. we basically know around 3,500. hawkish stance from the secretary of defense. >> and playing into the fact that president trump is going to address this at the united nations. hans, thanks, hans nichols as the pentagon for us. coming up, businesses in st. louis are boarding up in anticipation of another night of protests after a white former police officer was acquitted in the deadly shooting of a black man. we'll take you to st. louis, next. is instinctive.

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more than 80 people arrested last night after protests in st. louis, mostly peaceful earlier in the day and turned violent. windows broken and some property destroyed as demonstrators took to the streets to protest the

acquittal of former police officer jason stockily, charged with murdering anthony lamar smith, a black driver. it i want to bring in scott cohn, on the scene in st. louis. scott, what's the situation jie see boarded up windows behind you. no violence right now, but business owner are wary? >> yeah. let me set the scene for you, ali. this is a neighborhood called del mar loop. we were here over the weekend. you can see the painted windows over here, those were windows boarded up after protests over the weekend. this year, this is new. this is something within the last hour or so they've put up. preemptively, because what is expected here about three or four hours from now is another demonstration, and we've had this, this pattern for the last three nights, where there have been peaceful protests during the day. soon after night falls, when the peaceful protesters go away, that's when the violence breaks out. look at the scene from here in the del mar loop on saturday night about two dozen businesses damaged. five police cars damaged.

ten people arrested, and then as you mentioned last night in downtown st. louis, after a day of peaceful protests, all day long, a splitter group broke off and went into the downtown area. smashing windows. turning over flower planters and the like. 80 people arrested in that. and a very sizable police presence. today more peaceful protests in downtown st. louis. a silent march up market street. the main drag heading west from the gateway arch. just to kind of keep this, this message going. and we didn't know going in to the week, the workweek, whether this would continue while the protesting has continued, peaceful during the day and again, they expect peaceful towards evening, but then the question is, what happens then? will we see yet another, a fourth night in a row of violence? ali? >> scott, keep we'll in close touch with you. you're tweeting about the stuff you're seeing in st. louis.

scott cohn in st. louis, the nation continues to struggle with police violence and accountability. bring in host and managing editor of news one now. roland, let me ask you, i saw the "washington post" is reporting that journalists on the ground heard st. louis police appropriating the language of the protesters saying they were chanting as they were disbursing protests instructions, "who's streets? our streets" what do you make of this? people very frustrated as the shooting of anthony lamar smith, five bullets and doing what scott cohen is reporting about? >> we keep hearing about good cops and only a few bad apples. when will the good cops stand up and hold the bad cops accountable? a call for the jury to convict jason stockily. now they want to go after the head of the black police union, a black woman, because she dared

challenge this officer. i mean, look at the facts of this case. it is an abomination what this judge did. saying, when this guy said we're going to kill this mf, you got to judge this win the context and the moment of the heat, you can't say his actions afterwards, where he really meant that. really? look at the facts of the case. literally, you see the dashcam video, you see him ruffling through a bag and all of a sudden a gun is produced and on that very weapon only stockily's dna is on it? come on. this is the problem why people can't trust the system. even when you have a case like this, when you have overwhelming evidence a cop still gets off, because a judge wants to find technicalities. people don't trust this system and that's why you have protests and black lives matter. >> how do you distinguish between the peaceful protests during the day and the other protests we see at night,

windows broken and people in masks? a distinction that you make? >> look, the own distinction is the one you just said. bottom line, people are angry, frustrated, upset. and here's what i want to hear. i would love to hear police officers in st. louis say, this guy should have been convicted. this guy was carrying an unauthorized ak-47. this is not how we do business. okay. they don't do that, ali, because they protect each other, and so the problem which you have here is that police want to say, oh, you should condemn the protesters. and people who are committing acts of violence should be condemned but i'm also condemning the same cops committing acts of violence but the good cops, ever worry about them? the answer is no. >> and roland, a quick turn on to a different topic. that is education secretary betsy devos had a summit this morning. at a summit. historically black colleges and universities. lynn to what she had to say.

>> the racist environment that forces the founding of hbcus is a regrettable chapter in american history. a stain on our national student had no other option except for an hbcu and for too long before that, they had no option at all. now as washed up elements of bigoted beliefs seem to grow louder in american public life, together we must confront problems head-on. >> what do you think, roland? >> she is absolutely correct. she screwed up earlier this year when she said hbcus were about school choice, they had no choice. but this is where the federal government should be saying how do you correct those wrongs. unfortunately too many of these hbcus have been drastically underfunded. especially predominantly black public institutions. right now a lot of media folks have not been covering it. we have on tv one.

and in maryland, the hbcus are suing the state there because they were creating programs that were attracting nonblack opportunities and white institutions, predominantly white schools created the exact same program and were puling those students away. a judge deciding that decision right now. we also understand this here. if you understand where your black ph.d.s are coming from, they are from hbcu because predominantly white institutions are putting up barriers that are keeping folks out. we have to deal with our elementary schools, middle schools and high schools because since 1954 it's been -- all this time we still are dealing with problems with race in this country and we still have resegregation in america and mainstream media should be standing up to cover this. it's a fundamental problem. >> roland, always appreciate your commentary. roland martin is a host from tv one in washington, d.c. amidst the congressional and

federal russia investigation, it's no surprise that president trump has armed himself with a top-notch legal team. "the new york times" reports two of the president's lawyers are clashing over how to cooperate with the russia investigations. and it was on full display just a few days ago at a popular washington steakhouse with a "new york times" reporter sitting at a nearby table who overheard the conversation. on your right you see ty cobb, the attorney to the -- reportedly telling another trump lawyer that he suspects a colleague named don mcgahn as a couple of documents locked in his safe. he also speculates another white house lawyer could be a mcgahn spy. for more on this, senior fellow at the foreign policy research institute joins me. there's a million places to go with this. first of all, one has to be careful these days. there are people around all the time and the public discourse is very public. but that said, there do seem to be two approaches to how the

trump administration or trump's lawyers and associates want to handle the investigation. ty cobb saying put everything out there for scrutiny and don mcgahn thinking otherwise. >> what we're seeing here is the problem when you have too many lawyers in one room. and you have them from different time periods, with different roles. mcgahn has a host of different things to deal with inside the white house. on any given day. and when trump is your borss, yu have most than any other white house counsel. at the same time, people coming in from the outside at different times in this investigation. now lawyers with lawyers and people brought into the white house with lawyers, and you're looking at a lawyer for everyone person in the white house. >> whose interests are not necessarily aligned. ty cobb's logic seems good. >> yeah. so cobb is interesting because he's basically saying, i have no fear about what is going to come to this investigation. and just open up the books and let's get this done and push through it. that's a significant point for all of us to look at.

he's saying let's be open with the mueller team. i think where it gets complicated is everybody's interests along the way. are they in it for trump or to protect themselves over the long run. >> arguably let's say this represents 100% of the information that needs to be looked at. if you are the fbi and assuming there's stuff on this page if you are the fbi, you're robert mueller, do you not have the ability to get everything on this page? aren't we going to get to ty cobb's point where everything robert mueller needs, he's going to get. >> if he senses he's not going to get it he's going to pursue another route. what's interesting is the different strategies about how much to fight this. and if you remember in the beginning, it was to fight everything. comey. it was to push back on everything. and now you have a new lawyer in there. it's like just roll everything over and produce it. and i think you got a culture shift between those that started out in this fight and those that are going to end it. >> is ty cobb's strategy, whether it's legal or in the light of an investigation, it also helps if that were to be

they ethos, we get a lot of people to back off and saying they are showing us everything, there must be nothing to hide. >> why the fixation on russia and why if there's nothing there do you continue to folk ous it? cobb is trying to reset that agenda and if there's nothing there then zuft push through this as fast as possible. if he doesn't push through this quickly it will drag down his entire term. mueller is moving very quickly on this. they go on for a long time. he doesn't want his entire tenure to be about this. >> clint watts, thank you. former fbi special agent. for more on this, ken vogel, the reporter who broke "the new york times" story is going to join nicolle wallace next hour here on msnbc. we'll be back after a quick break with a check of the markets as the trading day nears its close. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith.

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take a look at the stock market right now. looks like another record high for the dow and for the s&p 500. the dow up 62 points. general electric is a big gainer today. more than 2% higher. and equifax is gaining about 2%. the stock is off 30%. someone thinks there's a future for equifax and that we'll not keep worrying about this silly little breach that it had. that often happens when a stock craters. people buy in. i suspect we'll be worrying about this little breach for a long time. that's it.

closing out this busy hour for me. see you back here 11:00 a.m. tomorrow with stephanie ruhle and at 3:00 p.m. eastern. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00. thank god for lawyers who lunch and the host that plays intrepid reporters and take notes and photos and discover that the white house lawyer is suspected of hiding some super secret stuff in a safe. we'll talk to the reporter with the scoop of the day. but first, here's the picture of the president's two legal point men on the russia probe. washington lawyers john dowd and ty cobb. at issue, growing tensions between these two men and white house counsel don mcgahn over how much to share with special counsel bob mueller. ty cobb complained to dowd at the steakhouse, quote, the white house counsel's office is being very conservative with this stuff. mr. cobb told mr. dowd. our view is we'