there's really no telling right now the extent of this damage. >> i've seen tornado-like damage with harvey and irma. now seeing the same thing here in puerto rico. >> you can see there are already trees that have come down right here. we're seeing debris here. >> this river has come out of its banks. this is on the south coast. water kills people in storms like this more than the wind does. >> i'm 64 years old and i have never seen such devastation. almost half of san juan is

flooded at this point. gas stations completely ripped off. people that are calling in now saying, you know, my home is flooding and we cannot get to them. until the hurricane subsides. what we are seeing is the annihilation of an entire country. >> rescue efforts happening right now in mexico after a powerful earthquake ripped through that country yesterday. >> one woman in particular says her 26-year-old son is trapped back there in a small pocket. he's communicating with rescue workers, but they have not been able to get back to him.

>> this is really a heart wrenching experience. hundreds of people came together to rescue children from an elementary and middle school that partially collapsed. >> a nearby school we're told the bodies of 20 children have been recovered. the death toll now officially stands at about 200. that number will rise. >> all right. thank you for staying with msnbc. we are in special coverage now because we've got two desperate breaking news situations. let me start with hurricane maria. as we speak, it is still a category 4 hurricane moving toward the northern coast of puerto rico. winds are now down to just 140 miles an hour. can you believe that? the storm is actually weakening. the capital of san juan is expected to keep getting pounded for another hour or so. now, this is the path that hurricane is taking, but right now it's still there in puerto rico. these are some of the images

that have been coming in for the last several hours. the storm isn't passed enough for us to get new images to see how bad it is. but we've seen the wind. "the new york times" is reporting that the governor says nearly all of puerto rico is now without power. the entire island. in some places, power could be out until some time next year. they've got a 43-year-old infrastructure for energy in puerto rico. in addition, the hurricane could dump more than two feet of rain leading to widespread flooding. the mayor of san juan said to us this morning half of her city is flooded. now, that's one story. let's take you to the other story for a moment. in mexico it is a race against time to find survivors of a devastating earthquake that shook central mexico yesterday. right now the number of dead stands at 225. rescuers are using their bare hands literally to search through the rubble of collapsed buildings. there are searches under way right now. among those killed, 21 children

who were killed when their school collapsed on top of them. hampering the rescue efforts, widespread power outages. mexico's president said 40% of mexico city, a city that actually had a larger population than new york city, has no electricity right now. all right. we're going to stay on both of these stories. we've got reporters in mexico city and in san juan puerto rico. i want to get back to the storm for a moment to see what's happening. this is it. it is massive and you can see it is above puerto rico and it's going to be over puerto rico for awhile. let's bring in bill karins who has been following this. >> a trickle of information. we're still in the blackout period. i'm amazed we got as many images out as we have. landfall was at 6:15 this morning. we've had a category 4 hurricane over puerto rico for five straight hours. when you think about naples and even the keys, they only had two or three hours. this is five hours over the top. the 11:00 a.m. advisory from the

hurricane center, it hasn't increased. we don't think it's going to get stronger than what it is. moving to the northwest at 12 and still only 25 miles due west of san juan. so san juan is located where my hand is here. so it's just west of there. here's a map of the path we've experienced with the storm as it made landfall. this is where some of the worst storm surge was. then south of the rain forest area near the mountains. did a little jog here. that brought the strongest storms through. now the winds have started coming down as the storm continues to push towards the west. for the western portions of puerto rico. now the hurricane force wind and wind gusts, this is the strongest they felt. there's still new damage being done especially anywhere here on the northern coast as the wind's coming off the water. very strong around isabella. that's some of the concerns we're dealing with. finally, here's some of the strongest wind gusts. again, a lot of our gauges

failed, unfortunately. so 137 was the strongest on st. croix. about 113 at san juan. as far as the wind field is going to go, it is still huge. tropical storm force winds extending back into areas of the dominican republic and the virgin islands. and the hurricane force winds in red encompass almost all of puerto rico. you know, this storm has played out unfortunately how we feared. and now as it pulls away this afternoon, we'll start getting these images trickling in. we'll see what the effects of a cat 4 for six to seven hours around them. walk us through the last 48 hours. we've not been in touch with anyone from dominica which we know was hit 36 hours ago. we know the virgin islands got hit again. how bad and where? we're not able to speak to anyone the those regions. >> i just saw nbc news an hour

ago tweeted some of the aerial footage of dominica. i think we showed you some of those pictures too. you saw some of the destruction. it looks like a lot of homes without the roofs, wall collapsed, then last night in st. croix just started to get some of the images. they didn't go right through the eye, but got it pretty bad. so i think st. croix is going to have extensive damage, but not catastrophic. and as far as what we're seeing already in puerto rico, we haven't even begun to see what the flooding has done nap will be, you know, if something is killing people right now, it's likely the flash flood emergencies and the flash floods we're going to watch. >> we've seen images of that that are worrying. let's go to gabe gutierrez live in san juan. gabe? >> reporter: hey there, ali.

we are actually having a lot of trouble with communication out here, of course. so hopefully you guys can hear me. we had to switch up our transmission because many of the cell towers are down and it's just so difficult to communicate or put out a signal. for that reason, we can't really show you that much here on the camera. there's a wall here, a concrete wall blocking the worst of the winds right now. but this is as you've been discussing just devastating for san juan. the mayor saying half this si the is flooded. quite a dire assessment from the mayor. right now we're seeing strong winds. we've been feeling them throughout the morning. we do see the water rising in some parts of san juan. but it's been hard to route from our position here at the hilton. we were in a position a few hours ago. but that started taking on water, so we had to evacuate there and come down here. but i can tell you, this is something that this island is

just been devastated. the eye going to the south/southwest. we're in the northeast quadrant here in san juan. we've seen some of the winds and torrential rain. we hope to get some sort of an idea for the extent of the damage later on this afternoon. but right now, most of this island is still hunkered down. more than 10,000 people are in emergency shelters. but the governor saying that that's the number that's been reported. but the number of people in shelters is likely much higher than that. they had opened 500 shelters on this island with the capacity to handle more than 100,000 people. so one can only hope more people heeded the warnings. it's not just the storm surge but all those wooden structures and the rural communities outside of san juan. did those people make it out in time? and did those people seek shelter by the time they could? again, we are expecting several more hours of maria's wrath here in puerto rico. as you've been hearing from the mayor, the governor, other local officials and anyone riding out

this storm, this has been catastrophic already. it's just a question of just how bad it gets when we figure out and we have those assessments later on today and over the next couple of weeks. but the power grid is a major concern. and power could be out in some areas here for months. >> it's certainly a major concern for our next guest. gabe, thank you so much. let's bring in fema administrator brock long. this has been quite the last few weeks for you. as you look at these images, as you're in touch with people in puerto rico, we know fema has a tanker headed to san juan with tarps, with water. what else are you doing? >> well, we have great communication with the governors. let's not forget that st. croix also last night as the storm was passing to the south of st. croix, the wind field expanded and hit them pretty hard as well. so not only are we watching what's going on in puerto rico, but also with partners in the

virgin islands. stationed in the islands, ready to go. that's incident management teams and medical teams red i do go along with national guard assets. and then we also have multiple ships out at sea circling waiting to get in. so the goal is going to be life saving missions with search and rescue teams opening up air bridges and pathways. not only through air assets off the ships, but then also through our ports. and so we're ready to push a lot of commodities, a lot of food and water, hygiene kits, and whatever the governors need in there. >> one of the things -- and unfortunately brock, we've talked all too many times in the last few weeks. but whether it was texas or whether it was florida, there were images and discussions about line workers, electrical workers, trucks, tree trimmers, you know, things that were able to get in with police escort to the affected areas. obviously there's a major logistical issue we the u.s. virgin islands and with puerto rico in that you can't drive all

the stuff there. how do you prioritize the -- particularly the electrical rebuild? >> sure. so when it comes to the objectives, like you stated, the geographic nature of the islands makes it logistically difficult for us to immediately start work. so the goal is we have to get the ports open, the airports open. we have to do what's called first push debris. we've got to create pathways along the roadway networks. first to move are search and rescue teams. then eventually power trucks to establish emergency power to infrastructure such as hospitals. we want to start there. the rebuilding the power infrastructure is going to take many, many months over time. the power structure, they're pretty fragile as before the storm and replacing those and rebuilding those grids is going to take some time. it's a partnership between the federal government, the state, you know, puerto rico, the commonwealth of puerto rico as well as the private power

industry. >> who's going to pay for that and plan it? puerto rico didn't have the money beforehand. >> so the federal government through not only fema funds but other sources and through the federal government provides a large portion of the call share. everything is done by call share basis. in some cases, you know, like, we may pay for the first 100% of the first, you know, 30 days of emergency expenses depending on how the declaration comes up and what's approved. >> brock long, we're going to just go right to the school in mexico city where we are seeing a rescue under way. we appreciate you being with us. let's take a look at these live pictures now from mexico city. there are as we know up to 225 people who have been killed in mexico. but this is a school where rescuers are trying to find other students. this is where 21 children and four adults have been pulled out

already. the bodies, unfortunately, of 21 children and 4 adults. >> but there are 30 other children still unaccounted for. . and as our colleague steve patterson mentioned a few minutes ago, it wasn't at this school, but it is a place nearby where there was a mother saying she's in contact with her adult son who is in a pocket. he was safe. he hasn't been hurt. >> he could communicate. >> but they couldn't find him. the hope, the prayer right now is that that is the case at this school. you're seeing the school being surrounded by rescue workers right now who are also concerned about follow-up tremors. i want to bring sam champion in for a moment. we mentioned this earlier, but they're in a dangerous site right now. the fact that 7.1, 7.2 earthquake -- >> look at that right now. a guy going into a crawl space. >> something that doesn't look stable. and they're going to be digging by hand through this debris as well. you can't even move equipment if you believe there are people in unstable positions below and several what could be collapsed

stories below you. you have to do all of this by hand. so again, this is one of those areas with that. one of the things through the zone is where a lot of this damage is. some of the buildings were built in a dry river lake bed in some of these areas. the earth is not stability. the foundation has not been put into bedrock in some of these areas where these buildings just collapsed. so this is so incredibly brave. so unbelievably dangerous. what these men and women are doing in there, removing debris hand by hand, carrying it out. just trying to then listen to see if they can find someone who's trapped like you said. and imagine that mother what the anguish she's going through being able to communicate with her son. but no one else can find him. >> this school was a three-story

structure but after the earthquake became three pancake-like slabs. the report we got from the rescuers at this school, a doctor volunteered. rock by rock was pulling out the debris and sort of elbow crawling his way through the structure, you know, risking his own life. we see somebody with his hand up. we know that we learned from steve patterson who we're going to bring in in a moment, when the rescuers put two hands in the air, that is the signal there is someone they are trying to bring out. steve patterson, can you hear us right now? >> let's try again. steve, are you there? >> -- as you mentioned, yeah, i'm here. more on that school situation. we heard that that doctor not only pulled some of the debris off by hand, but he had to wriggle is way into one of the crevic crevices. compounded by the size of these people in these crevices trying

to pull by hand debris out while they're stuck inside there. it's an unbelievably brave thing. we heard that that led to the identification of a girl who may possibly have been alive. she has given a command if she is alive to start wriggling her hand. she does. and that leads to saving several more children inside that school. they described it as a ray of hope in a very grim night. that is much the situation that is happening here. you mentioned that mother with the son, 26 years old. he's in there trapped. i'm not sure if he's been rescued yet. she could well be on scene here still waiting for him to be rescued. the thing that you have to remember is this stuff takes time. i want to show you up there right now. take a look. you can see the crew members with a ladder very unstable going down trying to figure out, again, where more people may be lodged in that building. or maybe they know where those

people are and they just can't get to them at this time. and the thing that sam said is so true. because they have to dig by hand if they think somebody is alive inside there. and that's the situation with so much of this building. this is a six story building. may have housed hundreds of people. may have had people visitors coming in and out in a very populous time during the day here in mexico city. so the work that they're doing is incredibly intricate, incredibly delicate, heart breaking when they find a body. arduous because they have to do it by hand. and dangerous because "a," of any possible aftershocks that may come. and then "b," because that's simply an unstable structure. i want to actually -- can you pan back up there? you can see some of the military guys up there too. there's a huge collaboration between volunteers between the red cross who are bringing supplies and helping folks who

are pulled out of there. and between, you know, city, state, local official who is are coordinating all of this which is a massive undertaking to try to pull survivors from wreckage that looks like that. so that's work that again, we'll continue not only through today but you would imagine on through the next couple of days. one of the things those geological surveys say is they tell you the magnitude of an earthquake. 7.1 or 8.1. another thing they do is they predict the loss of life towards the end of it. and the survey that this brought was more than a thousand people dead. so you have to remember that as the days come on and these rescue operations continue, that 225 number could easily increase to something ballooning beyond what is even comprehendible. and so right now -- >> on the screen right now -- stay with us steve -- what you are watching is a very big gathering of these rescue workers. there's obviously some hope

there because they have sort of stopped and all gathered. you keep seeing people going to the crawl space, literally head first. you see their feet dangling outside. something is happening here where they have gathered in preparation of hopefully going in and seeing those two hands up. >> ali, according to the story that the ap put out, that doctor s sirano who steve mentioned who made his way crawling into the building was describing the situation while they were pulling the rubble out they found a pocket, an area where they did see a few people, students and possibly an adult who were not alive and couldn't get them out. but they had been hearing small signs of hope, small noises. one of the issues is they can't even tell if the noises are coming from above or below. but when those rescuers then asked for silence, they then heard silence. so there are some noises which is some sign of hope giving hope to those parent who is are

standing outside those school gat gates. the question is if there are survivors in there, how are they going to get to them? >> let me add one more thing. because let me just again tell you more complication to what you're seeing in that sandwiched building. when a building like that collapses, the water lines break, the power lines break. so there's live power lines. water pouring. gas lines break. so what pictures won't show you, you will be able to smell and feel and know if you're, like you said, elbow by elbow crawling through what's unstable around you and you have all of that going on around you at the same time. so there are so many concerns here in how to reach people and what you can safely get to. >> and they are not -- many of these people are not professional rescuers. people have come out from all corners as we've seen in the hurricanes, by the way. people going out to rescue other people. but this is devastating. the idea that 21 kids and 4

adults were crushed in that school you're looking at right now. they're looking for 30 more people in there right now. that's why you're seeing this big gathering of rescuers. because they want to see when they can get in there. and they'll do everything they can to get these people out. >> but to sam's point, the doctor who we're talking about who is part of these efforts, this is a 29-year-old doctor, pedro sirano who is volunteering. crawled into this building, pulling things out rock by rock. and the fact they're not professional rescuers, they're putting their own lives at risk in an extraordinary way. but just imagine, there are still 30 children unaccounted for inside of that school. >> they are not giving up hope. steve patterson, tell me more about what the power and the communication system is in mexico city. about 40% of the city is without power at the moment? >> reporter: yeah. they've slowly been coming back online. that is something they've been working on. so many of the resources.

and as the president said yesterday, the focus is not on, you know, fixing things as far as convenience in getting everything together as far as operating the city. it's rescuing people. so you have so many people, again, if we can pan up. just focusing on trying to pull people out of the rubble. and so i imagine that that has been slow coming back. i will say that a large part of the city is fine. i mean, you can drive around to much of mexico city and you would have no idea that an earthquake even occurred. but in these pockets where it's bad, it's very bad. and any sort of power outage only compounds the hazardous situation that the workers are in and that the people are trapped back in rubble like that are in and continue to be in. and keep in mind, too, that when you find somebody -- i want to say this. when you find somebody, it does not mean that that is an automatic rescue. they could be lodged and trapped back in there for a long, long

time. maybe even, you know, another 24 hours. when it comes to people who are victims of something like this. and so it's a very delicate process. it takes a lot of time and care. >> all right. we just want to make sure our viewers are aware. the images on the right, the video which is the rubble in mexico city, that's taped. that's from several hours ago. while we're hearing cheering and seeing some rescuers with two hands in the air which is a signal that they have found someone, unfortunately that video is not taken right now. >> all right. we will stay on top of the story of the rescues under way in mexico city and their recovery there. we're going to take a break. when we get back, we'll bring you an update on hurricane maria still over puerto rico. you're watching "velshi & rhule" live on msnbc. i'll have the langoustine lobster ravioli. for you, sir?

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welcome back. you are watching special coverage of "velshi & rhule" as we cover two natural disasters. the earthquake that took place in mexico yesterday and today hurricane maria as it ravages puerto rico. let's bring back our nbc colleague gadi schwartz in san juan. give us an update. there you are still in the coliseum just downstairs from you we saw those people seeking

refuge trying to get rest as the winds and rain come ripping through the area. >> ye >> reporter: yeah, that's right stephanie. no one comes in and no one goes out. the reason why is because this area is surrounded by what looks like flooding. we're seeing peaks. it's difficult for us to get vantage points because the winds are howling so strong. but if we take a look, i'm going to take you down these stories just a little while ago where the people are we heard a man with a bull horn. he was alerting them to the latest on what was going on. and he was saying it was possibly going to be another ten hours inside of this structure. this structure is a massive structure. it's made out of concrete and reinforced steel rebar. this is where people have been hunkering down. there are several hundred that were inside the coliseum proper. there's a floor there that they had all spread their cots out

on. but things started to fall from the ceiling during the worst of this storm. and so it started to leak. there was debris falling from the roof so they moved everybody over here. if you take a look down this hallway, you can see this is where a lot of people are now. they're trying to get a little bit of sleep. last night was not a night they could get much sleep. let me swivel you around here. they're exposed to the elements. check this out over here. this was a plexiglas window. about two or three hours ago, that plexiglas window blew out. you can see that side is there, that's just exposed to the winds. and that is a door that has been ripped off of its frame. so that is just some of the devastation we're seeing inside. a lot of people that are in these hallways, they've been talking about their homes. they fear they may be under water. they are terrified of the destruction they may see when they go outside. it might be six, seven, possibly even ten hours before these

winds let up enough so people can go back outside. >> then they have to evaluate how they can get out. how serious the flooding is and what the condition of their homes. are these shelters the kind of thing that are prepared to stay open for days and maybe weeks while people figure this out? >> reporter: yes, they are. and that's a big concern. i'm not sure if we can see what's going on over here. but this area is supported by some generators. the power is out here, but they're running some emergency power. watch your step here. but they're watching some emergency power. and then it's hard to see, but down below on some of these grates, there are generators that are set up. then there are also fuel tankers they brought in. we believe that those are possibly for supplies. they also got some stores and some of the wings that are also armed security all around. it looks like they are prepared to be here for the long haul.

>> we will continue with our coverage. this is remarkable. he's in a concrete structure and that's how windy it was. >> gadi, if you're still with us, we know there's shelter there. is there food distribution where you are? >> reporter: yeah, so we're seeing different people go through. it's not clear what organizations they are. some of them look like they were with the city of san juan. and they're handing out little bags of milk. and then they're handing out sandwiches. for now it seems like most people here are getting food. but as we've heard the mayor here say and as we've heard the governor talk about, they're going to be in short supply of water, bottled water, those type of necessities. especially if the type of devastation they are fearing is outside and people go back to their homes and realize that there's nothing left, those are going to become in great demand very shortly. >> all right. thanks very much. we'll get back to you very shortly. and what gadi is talking about, that flooding is now happening. we spoke to the mayor who said at least half of san juan was flooded. that was an hour and a half ago. >> an hour and a half ago. sam champion, give us the

weather history. why is this happening? i mean, two weeks of devastation. >> yeah. so right now what you've got is the eye of this storm moving right across the island. the worst winds. and of course the rain are carried along with that eye that are now fanning out. we have no way to show you where the heaviest rain bands are. bill is going to walk you through all this later. the color enhancement, you want to look for the deepest shades of red. the deepest shades of red will show you where the intense rainfall is coming in with the higher cloud tops right there. so we now have flooding. and we're going to see more of it over the next couple of hours. again, what you see with this is you get the storm surge. you get the worst wind damage. and the hurricane center has not come off this 25 inch rainfall total. so we still believe there will be some areas that will get about 25 inches of rain and for the most part in many of these islands, the rain doesn't come out.

it's just going to flood. >> right. and that was very instructive. the jacksonville flooding happened after the storm passed by. >> right. this will continue. if the winds continue to come in from the south as they are and they try to block those communities, they're going see a lot of flooding in the low lying areas in the southern areas of puerto rico. because the mountains run right through the middle. it's like a stripe right through the middle. then the north shore and the south shore of puerto rico are all very low lying. you'll see a lot of flooding in those areas. you'll also see these rivers ripping through these mountain towns. because you've got elevation of about 4,000 feet. you're going to have rain and mudslides. the one thing i want to tell you about gadi's live shot he was mentioning, when you see a big span structure like that, the reason they moved people into that tight construction of the hallways surrounding it, the big span is not safe in high winds. tight cement construction is

your friend from winds. now elevation will become your friend from flooding. >> remember the flood slooimuds. it's so dangerous. >> we city l stay on top of this. let's go to a veteran hurricane hunter. he's about to goup in the air into hurricane maria to collect data. richard, where are you right now and where are you headed? >> well, hello. we are actually getting ready to brief our mission as a crew we are in barbados. we're set to take off around 1:00 this afternoon. we are going to be flying across of hurricane irma as it's over puerto rico dropping a pattern of what we call dropsons which are by parachute from 35,000 feet into the storm.

then even more importantly, then going to fly north of the storm in a pattern across the bahamas and the atlantic north of puerto rico to sample the environment out ahead of the storm which is critical in determining the future track of it. >> we've been talking with sam champion all morning. what is the hope you come -- go up with and come down with that you can better -- send this all in and they can better predict the storm and the intensity of it. >> that is exactly what the primary mission of our aircraft is. again, we fly at a high altitude. we can sample pretty much the entire lower portion of the atmosphere where 45,000 feet all the way down to the surface.

and we provide critical data pressure, temperature, humidity, wind data that gets fed directly into the computer models we've come to know so much now. and it greatly increases the accuracy of those models. and so right now we want to reduce any uncertainty over the next few days that may exist in the future track of maria as it pushes off the coast of puerto rico and heads northward. >> and we are so grateful that you do that. this changes the whole concept. 25 years ago, this was still -- it was great science, but it was still much more of a guess than it is now. that's thanks to you people. >> why do u yo feel safe? because as we look at these images, they look devastating.

>> whether it's in our p-3 aircraft that slides down at altitude right into the eye wall or the high altitude aircraft that flies across the top of the storm. in both cases the pilots are extremely well trained to handle the situation. some of the best pilots in the world. >> can you imagine flying through that? >> no. >> we understand the risk, but it's critical data that has to get into computer models to help give people as much of a heads up as possible in case it does become a threat to the east coast of the u.s. >> it's critical data, but it's extraordinarily risky. richard, we thank you for what you're doing. let's bring into this conversation astrophysicist neil degrasse tyson. give me the science prpt i. what is going on here? >> earth is pissed off. sorry.

i don't know how else to put it. >> see, i do understand science. >> these are shots across the bow at this point. we are reminded how susceptible coastal cities are to flooding under the extreme weather circumstances. most of civilization, in fact, are -- was built on cities on waterways for transportation for commerce. >> of course. that's why we have built cities. >> so while -- this could just simply be an unlucky year to have so many intense storms. by the way, how many people are reminded that tropical depressions are named alphabetically. we're up to "m." often they don't make it to hurricane status. you see hurricanes in sequence that are not consecutive in the alphabet. >> because there are tropical depressions -- >> may have been a tropical storm and petered away.

consider that when you warm the planet, the capacity of the air to retain moisture goes up. >> the records in climate change. >> yes. generally when we think of weather, we don't think of clear blue skies. we think of what water is doing in the atmosphere. when we think of weather, that's what we think of. so when you store that much more moisture in the atmosphere, we are that much more susceptible to the extremes of weather. so a storm would be more intense. drought areas would be more intense. and so these are shots across our bow. and to have people still saying i choose not to follow what the consensus of observations and experiments gives us, regarding -- >> let's talk about sea level, right? that's not anything to do with weath whether you accept climate change. it's whether you can read a ruler. so this is not -- what you're talking about, we know that the

earth is warming. we know the water is warming, and we know these storms that get their energy from warming waters do feed off of. >> yes. and there's another important fact. the ocean is a huge repository of heat energy. as well as carbon dioxide. so even if we stopped taking carbon out of the ground, burning it, and entering it as a greenhouse gas, if we stop that tomorrow, there's still the lag time the ocean would be generating influencing the climate or the atmosphere until that levels off. >> then from your perspective, we know we're in a first responders moment with puerto rico and the virgin islands. let's go a month from now when they're replanning the rebuild. from your perspective, what are the most important elements to be considered? >> well, first, anyone who wants to base policy on what might be research papers that are not in the consensus of what other observations have shown, that is

risky. that is -- no, it's irresponsible. to say here's this one research paper. that's the truth because it fulfills my philosophies. >> why do we have -- why are we having this debate? it is not a global phenomenon. it's uniquely american and to the uk that we have argument. >> ever would have considered the religion or philosophy would be a road block to mis. >> or economics or whatever it is. people cherry picking science in the fringes of what is otherwise the emerging consensus of observation and experiment. so that's disturbing to me. and i feel something happened. i turn back to the electorate and say what happened in your school system that you don't understand and recognize the meaning and impact and significance of what a scientific result is, how you arrive at them. i had a tweet a couple of weeks ago that went viral for reasons i did not expect. it was a week before the eclipse. i said next week's total solar

eclipse, odd that there are no deniers about this eclipse because like climate change the methods and tools of science predict it. and somehow that went viral. >> i remember the tweet, yeah. >> people resonated with that. and i just -- it's odd that you've got your cell phone and you're using all the science and technology that you want to be happy with -- >> but this one we're not happy with. >> this one comes up, cherry pick that. >> but it goes beyond denying science. it's about good long-term decision making and climate change -- >> here's an example. >> people making long-term decisions whether you're talking about business or science. >> so if you build infrastructure to withstand rising sea levels, it costs you $1. if you repair that infrastructure after a flood, it's $4. but the difference is the $1 on the front end is private money. the $4 on the back end is taxpayer money. >> not only that, if you prevent it from happening in the future, then it's nobody's money. on that level. >> yes.

but people aren't necessarily add i adding thoughtfulness to their calculation. thoughtfulness isn't what shareholders look for or voters look for. >> that is an unraveling of an informed doctoemocracy. if you have people deciding on fringe information and making policy on, yes, it is the unraveling of an informed democracy and i fear for the future of this country and leader of the world rl, that's the country i grew up in. we led the world. >> by the way, you can tweet neil degrasse and you should. >> tyson. >> i'm sorry. one of the things people will say is is this the moment in which to have this conversation about climate science? >> it should happen ten years ago, but sure now is fine. >> now when there's a zass ser there something wrong with having this discussion?

i feel the focus is on these topics right now. >> any reason should be a good reason especially category 4 and 5 hurricanes laying waste to some of our most cherished cities and monuments. by the way, by the way, when we talk about sea levels rising -- let me benchmark this for you. if we lose the ice sheets on greenland and antarctica, just know what the limit of this is. the sea level will rise that of the statue of liberty's left elbow. okay? that's what we're working in here. between where it is now and where that could be if we lose all the ice sheets and anything in between is in between. fact number one. fact number two, the rising sea levels, it doesn't happen like gradually like there's the water level. no. it happens at storm surges. the storm is like an inch higher than the wall you previously built. and that inch is connected to an unlimited amount of water in the ocean and it fills up your city. you say, oh, that's just an exception. well, that one in a hundred year

storm becomes one in a ten year storm. one in a five year storm. all of a sudden you have a new coastline. you start building your homes further and further inland. and eventually your entire city is 20 miles in because you've lost everything on the coastline. >> well, this is important though. because as we are developing, you know, the heating of the earth is going to leave -- we think about the refugee crisis right now. it's going to be much bigger. >> you know who is paying attention to the scientists? insurance companies. because it's going to cost them money if they're listening to the deniers. and the military. because the stability of nations around the world when you have these low lying countries especially in polynesia where you have these islands that are low lying, rising sea level. it will displace huge populations and you would have a refugee problem like the world has never seen. >> think about some of those african countries where people simply can't survive anymore. they can't farm, they can't live.

they're moving for that reason. it's not entirely politics why we're getting a refugee crisis. >> exactly. and if you destabilize national borders, that affects not only economies but also the security and the safety of people. so i'm here as an educator, as a scientist, just trying to get people to understand what it means to think about and recognize what a scientific objective truth is. and how and why it should be heeded otherwise what kind of country do you have? >> you've got to follow neil degrasse tyson on twitter. >> and you've got to watch his show. the new season of "star talk" premieres october 1st on nat geo. >> the show we talk to celebrities and describe what role science has played in their lives. you come for the celebrity and stay nor the science. >> science and art are intertwined. science and art have always been

trying to help what ails the human condition. >> wonder why people say you've raised that to an art. or it's down to science. >> some things are art. some things are science. some things are both. >> my recent book is, like, number one now on "the new york times" best seller. which is completely crazy. >> fits in your pocket. >> for people in a hurry. it's crazy because we celebrate any time anybody's science book lands anywhere on a best seller list. it's always the pundit books and the celebrity tell alls. it's a science book. whoa! so maybe people care again. i don't know. >> neil, thanks a million. great to see you. >> thank you. stick around, everyone. we are getting new video from mexico city. you know where yesterday a 7.1 earthquake -- oh, my goodness -- struck 80 miles south of mexico city. what you're looking at right now is a school. a school that was a three story school that collapsed. now pancaked. already we know that 21 children

lost their lives. 30 are still being searched for. the search and rescue efforts continue. stay with us. you're watching this special edition of "velshi & rhule" live right here on msnbc. kevin, meet your father. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you.

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welcome back. we continue to get new video like that disturbing one in our newsroom from yesterday's earthquake 80 miles south of mexico city. in just a short time ago, we learned the death toll from that magnitude 7.1 quake has gone up again. it now stands at a total of 225 people. as thousands of rescuers, some volunteer, who are really risking their own lives continue searching desperately for survivors. among those killed, 21 young children who lost their lives when their school, a three-story building, simply collapsed. hampering the rescue efforts, power outages, mexico's president says 40% of mexico city, which is basically the same size as new york, has no electric right now.

we're going to monitor this situation at that school where they are hoping to find the 30 children still unaccounted for. but now let's turn back to our coverage of hurricane maria and we have al roker along with ali. >> this storm made landfall six or seven hours ago, about 7:00 eastern time. we've been covering it for three hours and it's still not done with puerto rico. al, i just reminded people that every storm you covered, every one hit for a couple hours. this storm is moving slowly. >> it is starting to pick up speed, but we talked about this yesterday. it took the path we didn't really want it to. it was the worst possible path and now making its way. so we're looking at it. it's currently still a category 4 storm. it's 25 miles west of san juan, 140-mile-per-hour winds. it's moving now northwest at 12 miles per hour. here's what we're looking for as

this goes forward. the dominican republic tomorrow, still 75-mile-per-hour winds generally, 4 to 6-foot storm surge. 4 to 8 inches of rain or more over the dominican republic. the next big place we're going to see real devastation again, ali, is going to be the turks and caicos. still a category 4 storm, 120-mile-an-hour winds, but the storm surge anywhere from 10 to 15 feet. if it's high tide, you could add three or four or five feet to that and upwards of more rain, so that's going to be bad. then it could hit the atlantic on sunday morning between the coastal states and bermuda. it's not done with puerto rico just yet. we look at the winds. wind gusts will be, again, up to 125, 150 miles per hour. these are current wind gusts right now. we're talking about complete roof failure and structure failure for a lot of these

places. storm surge where the most damage and most deaths occur. we're talking six to nine feet. we're talking extreme damage to buildings, marinas and roadways. and then the flooding. with all this rain upwards of 25 inches. high flooding, river flooding, mudslides because, of course, we've got those mountains in the north and those are going to force that water down and into the urban areas and the rivers. right now we do still have hurricane warnings for puerto rico, the northern shore of the dominican republic and all of the turks and caicos. we put together these models. we call them the spaghetti. you can see most of them keep it offshore but there are a few outlyers who bring it into the del mar peninsula, into parts of new england. we still have to watch this. we're talking about that tuesday or maybe wednesday. over the weekend we get a little bit of a breather, but those folks down in the caribbean are really going to be suffering. this is going to be a long-term

event where we're going to be talking about this into next week. that was the same thing we had with irma and with harvey. these were weeks-long events. >> remember in florida, the jacksonville flooding we were talking about, we thought we were done. this was the next day, for all intents and purposes. so the idea of these combining with storm surges, water that's trying to get out. people in puerto rico are dealing with the wind but they're really scared about the flooding. >> we won't know the damage in puerto rico for at least another 12 hours, most likely, and then they'll start to go out and assess. i'm really, really afraid of that and for the turks and caicos coming up, this could be, again, another devastating barbuda kind of event. >> al, thanks so much for your coverage on this. al roker from the "today" show. we have to look at the situation in mexico again. it's really, really tragic. we're seeing rescuers trying to get people out of a collapsed school in which 21 children and four adults were killed. this has been something they've been watching for the last hour.

something is going on here. >> remember, 225 people is the current death toll. that number could go up. we know there are already around 50 to 60 rescues that took place yesterday and today, but this earthquake, a 7.2 magnitude, 44 buildings collapsed, one school clams collapsed. this is the biggest earthquake mexico has seen since 1925 and that earthquake killed 25 people. that was a magnitude 8. the parents of these children, according to the associated press article, some parents had said they received a couple "what's up" messages from young girls inside. that hasn't yet been verified, and one doctor, a 29-year-old volunteer, who had worked with the rescuers crawling in said they heard some sounds of small voices. they didn't know if they were coming from above or below, but this is an ongoing critical,

critical situation taking place at this moment. >> it is tragic. it is also hopeful because they are hearing voices. ordinary mexicans are going out to help the effort. they've got the military, they've got professional rescue rescuers, they've got the red cross. they are trying to keep that death toll as low as possible, but that kind of damage and structural failure is cause for a lot of concern. >> 3400 soldiers have already been deployed to the region, the region that is currently without power. so think about water lines breaking. it's a live situation because of the power lines. it's extraordinarily dangerous, and we appreciate every person there trying to help this situation. >> our hearts are with the folks there and in puerto rico and in the virgin islands and across the caribbean this morning. thank you for watching this morning's special breaking coverage of two major natural disasters. we have been following for you hurricane maria and that devastating earthquake in mexico. our kovrcoverage will continue. join us again tomorrow for "velshi & ruhle" at its normal

time tomorrow. i'm ali velshi. >> and i'm stephanie ruhle. now it's time for "andrea mitchell report." we're tracking breaking news on two natural disasters. first, hurricane maria across puerto rico with winds at 150 miles an hour, driving rain causing millions to seek shelter. and the strongest earthquake to hit mexico in 33 years. already killed 225 people and forcing thousands from their homes. students and teachers found dead in a collapsed school. rescuers are digging through debris looking for people potentially trapped in a devastating earthquake that so far has killed more than 200 people. it's collapsed a dozen buildings, including that school where at least 21 children were killed. it's the second quake to strike