i'll see you at noon, but "am joy" starts right now. >> tonight i'm taking a knee for america. >> but not just one knee. i'm taking both knees. both knees in prayer for our planet, our future, our leaders of the world and our globe. amen. several members of the nfl, the nba and other celebrities and entertainers are uniting around a statement that has been a source of controversial for more than a year now. taking a knee during the national anthem to protest

police brutality. last night it was stevie wonder, and at this moment in london the baltimore ravens are facing off against the jacksonville jaguars. after several players took a knee, they are not alone. the oakland raiders, a team with an all-black offensive line plan to sit or kneel before their game in washington, d.c. tonight. and calls are still rolling in for other players to join in the protest which now has expanded beyond the playing field and all this was sparked by comments made by donald trump on friday night. >> wouldn't you love to see one of these nfl owners, when somebody disrespect our flag to say get that son of a bitch off the field right now, he's fired. he's fired! >> and trump took aim at nba champion steph curry on twitter

by attempting to disinvite him from the white house, which was an air ball. james said you can't disinvite him from something he didn't plan to do. but trump is still rage tweeting at black players this morning. essentially calling on fans to boycott the games if players refuse to stand for an anthem. william c rhoden, column northwest, and visiting caller at nyu, and mr. smith, political producer for nfl films. happy birthday to you. >> thank you. >> lebron james yesterday really

did, you know, up the anti- ante on things after donald trump went after stephen curry. he called the president a bum which i think broke twitter and the university, and this is lebron expounding on that a little more. this might have been from yesterday. it's cut three for my producers. sorry. we may not have it yet. what he's saying is after charlottesville, donald trump is a divider. >> one of the points lebron made is that now donald trump is bringing all of this chaos, all of this racial divide into the sports arena. you used to be able to watch sports and escape donald trump, for just three hours you could escape, and now he's bringing it

into the sports arena and i think it's going to be to his detriment. i think he is amplifying to what their message is. >> the message was about police brutality and donald trump made it about donald trump. let's listen to the lebron james sound bite. >> it's at a point where i am frustrated. we know what happened with charlottesville and the divide that that caused. now it's even hitting more home for me because he's now using sports as the platform to try and divide us. for him to use this platform to divide us even more, it's not something that i can stand for and it's not something i can be quiet about. >> you also had steph curry's team the golden state warriors come out and say the following, and this is a statement, while we intended to meet at the team as the first opportunity we have to discuss a potential visit to

the white house we accept that donald trump made it clear that we are not invited. we believe there's nothing more american than our citizens having the right to express themselves freely, and we we are december appointed. donald trump has gone to war with professional athletics. >> what do the people he's going after have in common conspicuously? is president trump merely an insecure tphai insecure tphaurs assist, or -- he's made it clear he is a white supremacist. he's using the platform of the

presidency. he's whipping many followers into a frenzy and targeting specific individuals. he's using the language of son of a bitch, where if you intended any of your history clauses, and it has an enormous loaded meaning in american history. this president is revealing, thankfully, in a way, who he is. >> and colin kaepernick's mom caught that meeting. and it is -- donald trump has a way of whipping his fans into a frenzy at his rallies saying get him out and having people target members of the media or protesters. we have seen in europe people throw bananas at black soccer playe

players. is donald trump creating a situation where one of his fans want to go after the athletes on the field. then what happens? >> that's the dangerous point. i was trying to think, who is this guy? and anybody who grows up in a black neighborhood, you talk about the dozens, and nobody does that better -- i spent almost 40 years in the business in locker rooms, and i write a column called locker room talk. you can't -- that's what these guys do in the locker room, they talk about each other and that's why he cannot win -- you cannot out signify -- >> no. >> and lebron already said, you bum. >> not even spelling out y-o-u, just u.

>> he said you may not be in the white house in february. so they recognize this. he's asking -- he's asking fans of athletes to do two things. he's asking fans and owners to do two things they know they can't do. jerry jones, he said i can't suspend the whole defense because they are not coming to see me, and every single owner that's why they signed off on goodell's statement, they said this is our product, and 80% of the league is black. you are doing something that is possible. and if the university of alabama doesn't show up for the game, they will declare a national day of mourning. it's all good to say all this stuff, but to your point, the owners know they can't do this and the fans want to see them. >> and he's also put his friends, white team owners in an

awkward position where they have to come out against their friend, donald trump. you have bob kraft coming out. this is roger goodell, and not the most popular cat out there. this is his statement. interesting that he did not say the words the president or donald trump in the statement, but that might not have been the bravest thing in the world. it's putting white athletes and team owners in an awkward position. >> it is. listening to it for the first time on friday night, joy, and those of us who care about our love sports are often uncomfortable with the language of owners given the racial divide between who are the owners and players, especially in the nfl. he never made that sub text so much text that they are the owners and they own these people and they can tell them what to do.

it was the hair stood up on my arms when he said it. i don't ever want to disagree with you because i always agree with you and i learned so much from you, and one thing i know you will agree on me is they listened to donald trump because colin kaepernick is sitting -- he's not even on the sidelines. they fired him. he has been fired. >> yep. >> he was black balled. >> since november, i know so many people who ask this question all the time, what can we do? we are living in a dark time, what can we do? i think the players, in addition to it being about sports, they showed us something that applied to everybody, and it's we all have power within our domain, and they found the power they have, and they may not have the power to move votes in november

before an election, and the ceos need to find their power, and they are showing if you leverage your power for the higher good, you can move a nation. >> to your point about the white athletes, in team sports, in team sports, it's about the team. in the locker room, there can be a lot of noise, but at some point the confederate guys, the nazis and they all come together and say wait a minute, time-out, and we have a championship to win. he pushed everybody into unity. the white players, the black players, and even the owners, because it's pragmatic. we cannot function without these guys. >> lebron does bring up the point, and i think we all made this point, the nfl and nba cannot exist without the star black athlete. for the fan who may be on donald

trump's side ideologically, if you are a lebron james fan, you have something on the other side of the cultural divide for you. >> i wonder how many fans back home in cleveland -- that's my hometown -- who didn't like what hill had to say who are all of a sudden, what lebron has to say is okay. she's saying the same thing, and it's brought the same message. these players, they know sports is their window to make a difference. and these sports in particular know that anthem is when their faces are on camera and there's a still moment and you are talking about the country. that's your window to make a statement. >> the question is, too, this is not something that goes back all the way to the beginning, and the nfl has existed longer than the national -- than that song has been the national anthem. it has been a national anthem

since 1931 and there's been an nfl since 1920. they are on display to do this anthem, and that doesn't go back to the beginning of the nfl. this is sort of tkbg john mccain complained about paid patriotism relating to the nfl. >> that's such a great point. if you -- the moment you play the national anthem you politicize this event. stop playing it. i am a jazz guy. any concert you go to, they don't start with the national anthem. if you want to depoliticize this, stop playing the national anthem and stop flying the jets overhead. >> stop promoting the military. >> why is the military spending dollars to promote the military

with the nfl. and you are talking about a member of donald trump's administration weighed in and told professional athletes what they ought to be doing. we will be back with that. up next, we will talk about steve mnuchin and then we have that up next. labels, and signs g everyone to think balance before choosing their beverages. we know you care about reducing the sugar in your family's diet, and we're working to support your efforts. more beverage choices. smaller portions. less sugar. balanceus.org. and life's beautiful moments.ns get between you

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the nfl has all different types of rules. you can't have stickers on your helmet and your jerseys must be tucked in, and i think what

donald trump is saying, this is not about democrats or republicans or race, or free speech. they can do free speech on their own time. you now have a member, not just the president of the united states, essentially ordering nfl team owners to fire members of the team if they are not standing for the national anthem. your thoughts? >> it's ridiculous. steve mnuchin doesn't understand the protection of rights, and to

indicate players have to do what they are told no matter if they have an opinion about something important going on is absolutely ridiculous. i suppose, you know, he probably was appointed, atphoeupbtd by the president, and come out and take those kinds of statements, and that's what trump demands, those around him support him whatever he does. i don't think anybody is going to take mnuchin seriously. people that know his background don't take him seriously anyway. don't forget, he's the foreclosure king. >> you said they speak truth to power. trump is a disgrace and it's never too early to get ready for impeachment. the thing about this president,

and i misspoke in the last segment and i said in 1931 it was woodrow wilson made this the national anthem, in 1931 herbert hoover signed into law, so it's not as if the founding country made this the song, but in your view is it ironic, woodrow wilson established this thing, and we have donald trump who is channeling wilson in a lot of things about being explicit in promoting a racial divide. have you seen a president in the modern era -- i will let you finish my thought. >> you are right on point. i said all along that i really believe that this is the most deplorable person that i have ever met, seen or witnessed, let alone run for and become

president of the united states of america. it is absolutely outrageous and dangerous what he's doing. he started dog whistling to that constituency, doing the campaign and started his division. don't forget, bannon said when it's about race we win because they frighten people and play into racism, they do whatever other president either has attempted not to do or at least showed some signs of, you know, trying to bring people together or not divide, but he is about division. he is about signaling to that core group of his that this country that he wants to make great again is all about making it white, and it's all about saying to them that your troubles, your problems are caused by those people. i am going to put a travel ban

on people who we won't let into the united states of america because they are the ones who are undermining your efforts to do well. he's pointing now to the nfl. we know that the majority of these players are african-americans and we know what he is doing. we are not tricked or fooled by him in any shape, form or fashion. some say how is it he can never criticize putin, the kremlin or charlottesville and those national supremacist, et cetera, and here he is strongly criticizing football players, and nfl players, and so it's clear, we know who he is. he defined himself. we are not talking about russia and collusion today and obstruction of justice, but i hope people understand it's about all of this that he should not be the president of the united states of america, and we have to get ready for

impeachment. >> i am going to come to you and i want to talk you about to russia gate as well. a new poll, is trump a uniter or divider, and 28% said he has done more to unite than divide. and jamelle hill tweeting this. we raise the question in the last panel, is what happens, congresswoman, if one of trump's supporters, and he does whip them up at these rallies violently so, and what if there is an incident that happens on an field, and if somebody goes after them verbally or otherwise and i wonder if there's a role for congress and sepb khur. do you think congress will step in and say wait you have to stop this and at least sepb khur him

for the things he's doing. >> i don't know exactly what can be done or even what should be done. right now the congress is focused on and tied up in dealing with obamacare and the president's attempt to undermine and undo it, to basically destroy it. we have a budget that has to be dealt with. we have serious issues about infrastructure that he claimed he was going to be involved with, and tax reform. so he is basically putting us all in a very difficult position because he has not focused on the issues of dealing with this country's needs. he's not even focused on what he said he was going to be about. we are basically in a state of doing nothing about these issues because of him, and the way he has conducted himself since he has been the president of the

united states. so i don't know if any attempt to centure is being thought about at this time. i think what most congressmen are thinking about at this time, even republicans, we wish he would stop the division and stop tweeting and stop this about north korea and kim jong-un in korea, and we wish he would stop it so we could get on the business of good public policy and legislating the way we should be doing. >> you recently said, and you were quoted as saying i guarantee trump is colluding with russia. you said that in the present tense. do you believe this president has in mind to further the interests of putin's russia even now after the election? >> yes. you see, there's one aspect of this that i have focused on that

has not really been focused on, and i would like to remind people that this president said he would lift the sanctions. that's what putin really wants and he wants it now. he wants the sanctions lifted so he can drill for oil in the arctic. its worth billions of dollars. this is what tillerson wants him to do. tillerson negotiated the deal for exxon, and a number of the allies around this president, including flynn, including manafort, including roger stone, including cohen and many others of his allies are all focused on this oil business in russia, and they would like to see these sanctions lifted because it means they all can be very, very rich if the sanctions are lifted. right now putin is disappointed because he thought the president

had the ability to walk into the presidency and lift the sanctions, and little did they know that in the sanctions is something that both houses had been focused on for sometime and once we had both iran and russia and north korea combined in the sanctions, this president's hands were tied. even though he fussed about it, and he didn't want to do it he had to sign it. i believe, yes, that this president and those around him were involved with discussions and collusion basically with russia because the final analysis, it's about money. it's about oil. it's about them getting rich. >> follow the money is a classic saying and it's always true when you look into a scandal. congresswoman, maxine waters, always a pleasure and have a good sunday. >> thank you. why are republicans so dead

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i think this last gasp threat that the republicans are posing is incredibly serious. i don't think anybody should be spending time on anything else right now until we defeat it again. >> the latest republican plan to kill obamacare is not popular at all. in an abc news poll released just this week given a choice between the two, 56% of americans say they prefer obamacare and 33% prefer the gop's bill. yet most republicans are jumping at the chance to pass it which

has us asking why? joan walsh is with this, and jane claire, chair of the alaska democratic party. republicans know this bill is not popular and it's even less popular than the last one and the attempt to take away medicaid is unpopular. >> there's a reason i wear black today which is to honor the death of repealing the greatest opportunity to kill the worst health care passed in history. they can't seem to get it together and i think they missed a huge opportunity here. >> why is obamacare the worst care in history? >> we have premiums that have gone up -- >> no, that's not true.

we have -- you say we have less health care? you mean the fact that we have -- the uninsured rate dropped down to 15 million ununsured. we have more people that have health care, how can that be less when it's more? >> the health care coverage is less. more people have a card. a lot of people retiring out of the system and a lot of doctors don't -- >> more care meaning more people have health care. that's correct. >> correct. >> more people have access and more people have an insurance card which is what you need to see a doctor? >> what we have is an immediate lost of a quarter of a million jobs -- >> no, no. can you pull up the jobs numbers, particularly in the health care sector, because that's also not true. there are more jobs created through the affordable care act because there are people have are involved in the administrative side of it, and analysis more people are working

in the health care than coal mining, and they were -- >> well, here's the thing. congressional budget office shows 250,000 jobs were lost immediately. >> that's not true. >> that's true. >> well, that's the overall johns numbers in the united states, which have gone up, up, up, since the affordable care act was passed. what you said, we will have the researchers look that up. to answer this question of why, and i talked to a republican strategist about this, and they will say because in the individual market which is about 7% -- >> 3%, i think. >> you buy your own insurance. when you talk about the premiums going up and people having difficulties, it's this tiny fraction of us. >> premiums always go up. one thing about health care premiums, if you can go up,

premiums always go up. they only go in one direction -- >> but they don't go up 150% -- fplt you said 105% before. >> cory has been honest, and this is the senator from colorado, my former home state, and he gave a speech at a senate republican lunch last week, and he warned that donors of all stripes are refusing to contribute a penny. we have not kept our promise. i heard this from republican strategist as well. when republicans went home to their districts, they met with their donors, and the donors are dema demanding a repeal of obamacare because it's a tax cut. >> it's a tax cut and promise. they spent seven years prying to repeal the affordable care act

and obamacare. they ran on repealing obamacare over and over and over again. more than 60 votes they casts to try and repeal this law. why they thought the sitting president that is named after it would sign a bill like that is beyond me, but let's leave that aside. these folks are saying you guys promised if you won the white house and both houses of congress you would do this, and the fact that they own washington and can't get it done, i think from the donor's perspective is are you going to keep your promise or not, on top of we want this tax cut. >> voters in some of the states getting obamacare may not know they are getting obamacare. >> yeah, they took the votes and they counted on that guy in the white house whose name was on the bill to veto it because they knew the chaos, and they knew the politics, so it's just also dishonest. i wish people could be honest and say, you know, we didn't

understand -- like donald trump is a little honest, nobody knew how complicated. >> he didn't know, clearly. i want to get jane in here because she has the disadvantage of being in the little box. cassidy/gra cassidy/graham would do this. it would eliminate the exchanges where people like joan are buying insurance and allow higher premiums with people with pre-existing conditions. what about that improves health care? >> here's the thing. democrats are on the helping people train and republicans don't know where to buy a ticket. the only thing the graham/cassidy bill is doing is slashing spending at the federal level so they can turn around and do a big tax reform package

and then return to the base and say we repealed obamacare and we gave a tax cut without adding anything to the deficit. as republicans continue to lie, i think democrats do what we should be doing, which is leading with values and with different proposals. democrats believe that health care is a right and not a privilege. you are seeing lots of proposals to get care. medicare for all. expanding medicaid. so democrats are putting new ideas on the table. >> i do appreciate you coming here, and you are in a tough position to argue on your own for this bill. we like you here. your point about jobs. i just had the producer look up, 500,000 jobs were added under obamacare. that is cbo numbers. the affordable care did create jobs. it did expand coverage through the medicaid expansion. that was a very important piece

of it. this bill would punish states that took the medicaid expansion and helped their people who were just 125% of the pwaoverty line and i don't understand that as a philosophical matter. can you explain to me why republicans want to do that? >> what we know is this. i didn't see the right to health care was in the united states constitution. >> you don't think it's a right? >> i think it's a right once the president gives it to people -- >> but in your view you don't think people have a right to health care? >> i think people have a right to access to it and i think you have a right to work hard so you can afford -- >> so it's what you can only afford. >> i have had two catastrophic health care experiences in my life, and i understand the firsthand fear of every -- >> did you have insurance during

those situations? >> i did. but my insurer dropped me. what we know is the free market works. >> show me where? >> look around at these lights on right now. >> i am not talking about the lights. i am talking about health care. hold on. hold on. you know the industry that provides the lights is heavily regulated by the government. >> absolutely. >> how does somebody who doesn't have a job providing them insurance, if they don't have assistance from the government how do you think they should access government? >> i think there should be a safety net. here's what is happening under obamacare and democrats are just as kulpaable as the democrats i just criticized because the democrats are sitting back and letting this happen -- >> letting what happen? >> the death spiral -- >> there is no. hold on.

i >> i have to be able to finish my sentence. >> you can't put false information out. the death spiral is a specific thing and there's a definition of it. there's no death spiral. that is not happening. we need to not say things that aren't happening, but go on. >> we know what republicans were promised about the obamacare exchanges, didn't happen. >> what? >> we know next year in 2018 during a critical election year, in 50% of counties in america there will be only one insurance provider. that was not what was promised, and it was you can roll down to your local exchange and choose from a list of insurers. there's one insurer in -- >> i don't think it's nearly half the counties. we will look that up. what you are talking about is the individual market which is 7% of the insurance market. so we are not talking about medicaid which is one-fifth of

the market. for people in the individual insurance market, don't you think the solution -- there are some insurers that don't want to be in that market, particularly in states that didn't expand medicaid, so shouldn't congress just fix 7% of the market? >> the democrats are working on that. bipartisan group, they are trying to stabilize the individual market and bring back subsidies for insurers who are winding up with a sicker population than they counted on. there's a lot going on. democrats want a public option in the counties. >> the public option would help, right? it's 33%. that's one insurer -- >> this matches in what donald trump said, you may not be able to repeal and replace in one bite. >> we will end on that note.

i think they are going to keep trying. there will be more and more bites at this apple. thank you very much to my j-crew. in our next hour, more on the president's attack on professional sports players, and the ongoing battle over voting rights. i was working for the c.i.a., d.e.a., pablo escobar, why else? the incredible true story of the c.i.a.'s biggest secret is now one of the best reviewed films of the fall. woo!

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you've known angela merkel for quite a long time. more than a decade. you were former secretary of state. how do you know her? it's a two-parter. how do you think she is weathering this trump moment? is she the leader of the free world? >> i think as to the first, she's weathering it, but it's disappointing to her. she's a serious person. she is the most important leader in the free world right now in my estimation. she is someone who values predictability, stability. >> that was the one bite we withheld from you yesterday. joining me now to discuss today's election in germany is

christopher dickey. world news editor from "the daily beast." thank you for being here. today is angela merkel's big day going for her fourth term in office. i think a lot of the world is hoping she will be successful in being re-elected against a right wing populus opponent. what are the odds? how is it looking? >> reporter: well, i think there's very little question but that she will be re-elected and she'll put together a pretty strong government. her left wing socialist partners probably don't want to be in the same government with her anymore. martin schultz ran against her. the afz, the alternative for deutschland is probably going to come into the german parliament, but not with a lot of seats. so she'll get her fourth term for another four years and she will be the rock around which europe will build actually an alternative to donald trump's

united states. >> it is interesting, as you know, i very openly said it is likely now that angela merkel is the leader of the free world. is that the way that she's viewed in europe? >> reporter: well, she's certainly seen as the most powerful figure leading the most powerful country in the european union. i think her strength is augmented by the fact that the election of emmanuel macron here in france gave her a partner, someone who not only shares some of her views about the government finances and the economy but certainly shares her views about the strength of the united europe and need to make europe ever more united, ever stronger, which is actually ironically easier to do now that brittain has voted itself out of the picture. so it's no longer going to be a spoiler in the mix. and i think that there's a lot of optimism now attached to her re-election and the partnership that has been developing with

emmanuel macron. >> the sunset of the united states and great britain with donald trump and brexit has been something to watch. i want to talk quickly about russia. russia which is nas not success getting in and meddling in the german election much as they were not in the france election and deutsch election. there's the gentleman's agreement between campaigns not to exploit any information that might be leaked as a result of a cyber attack. so no wikileaks, no russia involvement. they all froze it out. is that the model going forward for the way that europe, unlike the united states, is going to respond to russia? i. >> reporter: yes, i think more and more. earlier we saw that macron here in france was absolutely explicit. he said rt, russia today and sputnik were not welcome in his campaign. he shut them out. when there was an attempt at the

end to carry out dirty tricks against his campaign, those were largely ignored and pushed aside. i think we're seeing the same thing in germany. i think europe will resist very strongly those kinds of russian interference. >> indeed, christopher dickey. appreciate your time. at the top of the hour, more and more pro athletes stand up against trump. more "am joy" after the break. comfortable you are in it. so find a venus smooth that contours to curves, flexes for comfort, and has a disposable made for you. skin smoothing venus razors.

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feeling the love? are your eyes dry, itchy and gritty? blurry vision at times? grab some face time with your eye doctor and show your eyes some eyelove. i think that we have to look about when sprump out of office. how far is something like this going to set our country back? getting worse than it already is. when i woke up this morning, just like you did, kwan, reading those tweets, listening the news, it took me back to when i was 17 years old. you know, when you should be telling a kid to get good

grades, stay focused, listen to your parents, live out your dreams. instead at 17 years old i was being hated on because of the color of my skin. >> welcome back to "am joy." former nfl superstar randy moss is one of the many condemning donald trump for calling for nfl owners to fire players for taking a knee during the national anthem to protest police brutality. at 11:00 a.m. this morning players on the jacksonville jaguars neiled and locked arms. more protests expected throughout the day. joining me, joan walsh, bill rhoden, jonathan capeheart. thank you, guys. annan, i'm going to start with you. i think what randy moss said is so important. i have three children, they're pretty big. you teach your kids to respect the president of the united states, respect authority but donald trump is the kind of president you have to guard your

children's access to when they watch television, both because of his language and because of the divisiveness. this is a very odd moment in modern american history. >> i think one of the things the president has very formal powers. one of the powers we all think about that is very long run affected the power of example. the power signals to people is okay. the power of what the president is, college fraternity men they can do to the genitals of women if they maybe win a football game. and this president is denigrating our discourse and setting new low standards for all kinds of people in a way that frankly will endure with us and lurk in places we can't even see for much longer than he's even alive. >> this is a president who has

sort of, you know, ordered the value of humanity based on rank that men can grab women if you're famous, do whatever you want to them. >> right. >> the vulgarity of it is sort of shocking. then you have that set against sports and athletics which is seen as this great unifying social construct even though it has been used as great protests. you know, it is an interesting juxtaposition. now you're having to see athletes stand up and do the job the president has spoken about socially and culturally. >> athletes have been our greatest celebrities. they have been the most universal celebrities. not everybody watches television or follows politics. pretty much everybody knows who the best athletes are. everybody knows who lebron james is. everybody knows who stefan curry is. now he's taking on and frankly picking a fight with an opposition that is ill equipped to have an argument with. not only does he have, you know, faulty logic at his disposal but also he's simply going against

people who are more popular than he is. and he won't understand that until it's too late. >> for the audience, some of the people who have cracked back at donald trump, eric holder, the former attorney general of the united states says taking a knee is not without precedence, mr. president. you see a picture of civil rights icons kneeling in protest. dr. william barber bishop, william barber now tweeted the same photo and tweeted, nfl players who take a knee are sons of justice taking their place in the river of resistance that has brought us thus far on our way. i mean, bill, this is a long tradition that these athletes are upholding and the president maybe doesn't understand it. >> i think he doesn't. what he's saying basically, again, i just got -- this is the problem. he's saying this is a problem. if you're looking at it as obama -- this is haggler, hearn,

a brawl. if you're not ready to brawl, talk about your mama, we're not -- one of the things i like to say by randy moss, we focus a lot on pro athletes. i think where the real plantation is, where the biggest intimidation is at the big-time college football and basketball. we got all these young black guys in places like alabama who are being bullied, i believe, by these head coaches who are saying, i tell you what, if you guys start kneeling, all scholarships -- we're talking about guys making millions of dollars at the big-time college level. >> yeah. >> where you have these 19, 20, 21-year-old guys who i'm sure are feeling mostly -- black kids are feeling like this but their coaches are probably telling them if you want to get to the nfl, if you want to stay on scholarship, you better stay in line. >> how ironic because these are young men who are exactly in the age when they are targeted,

pulled over. >> absolutely. >> harassed by police. >> that's right. >> we've seen campus police shoot and kill people with impunity so of course these players live -- they live this fear. >> right. >> themselves. >> who are saying -- and if people forget the hierarchy of big time football college and basketball, all of these young black and women at the hierarchy of all of the coaches and administrators. after missouri i could imagine that a lot of them were pulled into the office -- >> right. missouri, explain to the audience, they said, we won't play. >> they said the missouri players said, you know what, guess what. we're going to join our fellow black students. if you keep it up, we're not playing. automatically people were fired. >> joan, then you have added to that the idea about the first amendment, the government will not interfere with speech. here's steve mnuchin, member of the trump administration essentially explaining that these players should be ordered to stand for the anthem.

take a listen. >> the nfl has all different types of rules. you can't have stickers on your helmet. you have to have your jerseys tucked in. i think what the president is saying is that the owners should have a rule that players should have to stand in respect for the national anthem. this isn't about democrats, it's not about republicans, it's not about race, it's not about free speech. they can do free speech on their own time. this is about respect for the military and first responders and the country. >> there's something chilling about the government saying the owners should have physical control over the bodies of the grown adult men. >> that's what he's saying. this is steve mnuchin who would not even criticize in the least donald trump for his terrible comments about charlottesville. gary cohn did come out and i guess got in some trouble, but steve mnuchin defend the his comments. that's what we're dealing with there.

we know what he's up to. i want to give credit to someone who hasn't gotten any credit so far, young rookie with the oakland as, bruce maxwell, african-american. first baseball player. >> yeah. >> yesterday. >> he's a rookie. he's one of only 64 african-americans playing in the mrrlb. >> yeah. >> which is tragic. it took a lot for him to do that. i give him credit. >> we should pull some of this back in the earlier days of black lives matter. nba players putting on hoodies. let's listen to more of randy moss. >> when you see these things being brought about, you know, on national television, the president of the united states, the number one ultimate spot that you can possibly be in in our country. >> the highest. >> the highest. for him to be able to describe to, you know, we're always

talking about staying in your place no matter how we look at this, it's going to continue to be a black and white issue. >> jonathan, your thoughts? >> look, i love everything that he's saying. i agree 100%. during this whole conversation to the point he was making, during this whole conversation the b role you've been playing has been of black athletes, african-american athletes taking a knee in protest and they're doing that in response to the president of the united states. in this whole conversation we've only talked about it around it, but you have the -- the stark example of the overlay of the racial component. i can't remember who was talking who said this is a brawl. the president likes to brawl. what we're seeing is the president. united states brawling with black people. he said there in alabama to the cheers of the people in the stadium that colin kaepernick

should be fired because he wouldn't stand for this -- for the national anthem. >> yeah. >> you know, what this says about -- it's not that the president is coarsening national discourse. he's been doing that since june 16th, 2015, when he announced his run for the presidency. if you really want to be technical about it, since he started the berther stuff or led the berther stuff in 2011, 2012. we are at a very serious moment in this country. we are at a very dark moment in this country. i think the fact that the president has picked a fight, has decided to brawl against lebron james, stefan curry, colin kaepernick, now the nfl, nba, nfl owners and the like, he's going to -- he's going to have a very rude awakening and find out just how popular what he's doing isn't nkts yeah. i think people are losing sight that these players are not not

standing for the american flag, it's specifically because of the killing of young black men by police. they're protesting a specific thing -- >> right. >> -- which is the death of black people at the hands of police without accountability. >> but donald trump's justice department is busy unraveling agreements that were made under president obama to monitor and cut down and retrain and bring decent decrees to take over these departments. this is all going away. >> that's the key. this administration is doing the work of white supremacy. whether or not we want to call them white supremacists is irrelevant really. i think it's about the fact that they are doing the work, and this is part of the work. it's about delegitimizing protests of what is going on in this country. and so, you know, if you can make it about the plaqflag, you make it about things you are generally supposed to agree

with, it becomes different. a lot of people because it's low information media, whatever, they are buying into it. >> but they're hearing it this morning. pre-game show are all talking about this. >> to be very clear, they're being very specific. go bab to that mnuchin tape you showed. what did he really say? he basically said i don't know what they teach about the constitution at goldman sachs or what his wife -- so we do have a constitution. he's now sworn to uphold and protect it and since december 18th, 1865, black people have actually owned their time and their bodies. >> yes. >> and don't need, you know, nerdy little treasury secretaries from goldman sachs to tell them what to do with their bodies and their time. >> that's correct. >> also one of the things too is the white players. now the white players have -- my high school coach, 92-year-old sherman howard, who was one of the first wave of black players to get into the nfl.

he was talking that back then the white players on his team was the first vanguard to protect the black players. >> remember, jack kemp as a figure in national politics would say that part of the reason that he had a different view and a world view is because athletic sports put him in contact with black people. >> that's right. >> it's one of the few integrated experience in american life. >> that's right. >> there's no excuse anymore. chris long of the eagles, they've stepped up. they've either knelt or put their hands and voiced support for their team makes. the seahawks player did the same thing. >> right. >> there is no excuse for you to not kneel or not speak up. >> right. >> because we're coming for you next. >> you can kind of frame this as a black issue, but we only represent a profound few in the country. >> frame that in a positive way. you can look at all of american history as a lot of metaphorical

knee taking by people who were directly affected by the issues, but it only moved forward when people decided to take a knee. >> absolutely. >> it is now time on this issue in this moment to broaden who is taking a knee. >> yeah. absolutely. i want to make sure that jonathan gets back in. even those@leaese athletes, the taking risk. jimmy kimmel is fighting for our health care. he has health care. now they're stepping into the vacuum and taking moral leadership. >> exactly. that is the key. there is a vacuum here. you know, both complain about celebrities getting involved in politics all the time, but that was when you had enough leaders out there who were taking principled stands talking about real things and real issues and so we didn't need to have

celebrities with their land come to thoughts, but because the president of the united states and the folks in his administration, particularly those who haven't decided to take a tone like he has. you now have celebrities taking principled stands. they are saying to -- for themselves, for their communities, for their followers, for their fans, for their country what they believe in, the country that they stand for, the country that they love. if the president isn't going to support them, then they're going to step out there and say, well, we don't -- well, we care what you think and we care what you think so much that we're going to protest you and what you're saying. >> before we go, i'm going to joan in a second. to remind folks, let's let steph curry speak for himself. donald trump went after steph curry on saturday. maybe he was mad and he couldn't

get his health care through. he says, going to the white house is considered a great honor for the championship team. stechb curry is hesitating, therefore invitation is withdrawn. lebron is reminding him, while calling him a bum, you can't disinvite somebody from something they weren't going. >> here's stefan curry. >> it's kind of surreal to me. i don't know why he feels the need to target certain individuals rather than others. i have an idea why but -- >> he has an idea why. >> radicalization of steph curry. i am here for it. i am here for it. >> wait until riley comes out there. >> just one last point. i have seen people suggest, including senator ben sapp and other folks that we know, this is playing into trump's hands,

this isn't the right way to do it. is he helping trump perhaps? i just want to say, we've outnumbered them. hillary clinton got $3 million more results. we do outnumber that crowd in huntsville, alabama. we outnumber them. >> by the way, let's all be reminded that ben sass thinks the appropriate response when you hear something awkward is awkward silence. >> i want to say something. >> say it, say it, we have a few more minutes. >> go to our liberal brethren and if you will find -- trump would have a field day with this. if he would go to a production meeting of leading organizations, news media organizations, and see the blinding whiteness of it, he'd say, wait a minute.

you're talking about me. where are your black folks? there are a lot of spots, at the press box, a lot of production meetings. you are the only black person in the room. we've really got to have some blunld conversations. you have to make sure that we're not talking about it, but we're actually acting on it. >> he's talking to a front run of white men and telling them to fire a field of black players. >> he is doing us the service of making a lot of americans subtext the american text. he is making the implicit, the shadowy, the quiet, utterly explicit. >> yes. >> he is giving us the chance to talk about it without needing to look for circumstantial evidence. that's always the problem. it's not perfect. >> is it the fact that the

evidence is greater? people aren't taking action. words are enough. words are sufficient. >> yeah. >> that to me -- that's where we've got to cross. we've got to get to the point where words are not enough. >> and the actions that are being taken are the opposite. his justice department, in quotes i guess at this point, is doing the opposite of trying to make the underlying situation, which is police brutality and policing in black and brown communities better. they're making it worse, actively and on purpose. thank you for this great panel. thank you, guys. up next, the aclu tries to fix what's the matter with kansas. our 2017 models will be moving fast. you can drive a car... or you can drive a cadillac. come in now before the end of our made to move 2017 clearance event and leave with the perfect cadillac xt5 for your next adventure. choose a low mileage lease

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many americans continued to be deeply and rightfully questioning this. they're launching a 50 state campaign to restore american's voting rights through initiatives initially tailored to each state. we're joined by the national political director of the aclu. always great to talk to you. tell me about your initiative. it's called the let people vote campaign. >> hello, my friend. since 1965 i don't think we've had a nationwide grassroots movement to expand voting rights. that was the passage of the voting rights act, remember? since that time there's a reason why we haven't had that. we were making progress. we were expanding the early vote. allowing younger people to vote. we were making registration easier. all of that led to the first

election of our first african-american president. then we had a tea party wave taking back state legislatures. in 19 states they passed 25 laws to restrict access to the ballot, make it harder for people to register, make it harder for people to vote. they've been on offense. our opponents have been on offense. we're going to try to go on offense starting next week on october 1st. we'll start an event in kansas. here's a nationwide plan that everyone can get involved with. if we don't go on offense, we're going to be on defense losing out. >> some of the initiatives included in what you're trying to do, supporting a ballot initiative to restore the rights of floridians, something that former governor charlie christ made better. independent redistricting commission in georgia. election day voter registration in kauknsas. is there a reason why you're making them state specific than

a national program? >> first, joy, congress has been dysfunctional. we have a lot of great ideas to make our national voting laws better. none will pass through kansas. you have to do it at at state level. every state has different laws. there are few organizations like aclu who have 50 state affiliates. we have the resources now. we can execute this kind of complicated nationwide grassroots call to action. that's the only way you can do it. the only way is to have each state executing their top voting rights priority. in florida we're going to try to restore the rights of xl, 4.5 billion people who have been denied the right to vote. we're going to try to do signature gathering to get onto the ballot and hopefully get 60% plus in november 2018 to rectify

the injustice. >> when the issue goes into court as does the naacp defense fund, is it as inevitable as it seems? we want to make it harder for people who we think are democrats to vote? >> the aclu team has been leading our efforts. there are all kinds of problems in north carolina. we've been litigating in four years. the fourth circuit issues a decision and says the results of what north carolina have been doing have been looked at. all of the correspondence between state legislators. they said it was clear the intent of north carolina was to target african-americans with, quote, surgical precision. surgical precision. that was what we learned through our legislation. that's true of so many other places whether it's wisconsin,

kansas, texas. so many other states have passed these laws in an effort to suppress the minority votes. president obama was elected. we've got to figure out a way. now you know that donald trump and chris kobak have articulated a world view that says the problem is too many people are voting and we have to stop that. they have this voter fraud myth, you've heard of it, right. all of these illegal people are voting, undocumented people are voting. we have an alternative view. we have too little civic participation in america. why is it too long. we need to encourage this participation. >> absolutely. even pollinating this. chris is going in his breitbart column on september 7th and claiming that out of state voters change the outcome of the new hampshire senate race that maggie hassen won and they were

unhappy of the results. they want people to believe the result is fake. all of this idea new hampshire allows people to vote who have out of state driver's licenses who are students, who go to school. there's a guy named jeffrey gerrish and he moved have virginia to maryland last year but opted to vote in the more competitive state of virginia than his new blue state. people do this all the time, it isn't illegal, but the trump administration is trying to cast it as suspicious when people of color do it. >> this is what chris is trying to do, trying to disempower students. you move to a university of campus at the university of new hampshire, dartmouth, now the state has passed a law inspired by kobak to say if you don't take an affirmative action step after you've voted to validate your residency, you'll be fined $5,000. they're trying to stop you from

voting. in kansas, they found a handful. two or three people who shouldn't have voted in that election. therefore, they've disenfranchised thousands and thousands of students making it harder for them to vote. this is what they're trying to do, use two or three instances to disempower thousands of people across the country. this is requesting to change, joy, if we don't change this possibility. election day registration, you can register and vote the same day. >> that's interesting. they say you shouldn't let women vote because they're too soft hearted. so so it's all a matter of who they want to vote for. the project is let people vote. >> thank you. up next, the great dion

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your next must-read political book begins with this line. american democracy was never supposed to give the nation a president like donald trump. that is what e.j. dionne, norm orenstein and thomas mann write. joining us is my buddy e.j. dionne. i'm so proud of you. everything you do is great. >> love you, joy.

>> e.j., the mechanisms of the country were not supposed to produce trump. explain. >> well, first of all, he is utterly unfit to be president. we were supposed to have systems to prevent that from happening. one of the things we argue in the book is that the united states is becoming a nonmajoritarian democracy. he lost the electoral college, the popular vote by 2.9 million but the senate is increasingly unrepresentative in 2050. 70% of us will live in 15 states so we'll have 30 represents represents. gerrymandering in the house, we've got all kinds of things going haywire in our democracy that we need to fix, but the other thing we're never supposed to have in a president, and you're seeing it again this weekend with his attacks on colin kaepernick, steph curry and others, is a president who used the power of this office to go after his enemies and try to

limit free speech. and he's really trying to intimidate the owners of these nfl teams to shut up their players. and that's a wrong thing. we have written chester in this book about how trump is showing these tendencies that attack the judiciary, attack the press, demonize his opponents and that's what we have to stand up to. >> the frightening prospect of that and what you describe because a nonmajoritarian country sounds like south africa, right? you prevent the majority from working its will through the democracy and find ways to incarcerate them, intimidate them and shut them down, that does not sound like america. >> no, i don't think it is america as we always envisioned them. that we doesn't include just liberals, democrats and progressives. we have always believed that the party out of power should have a chance to get back into power again. and when state legislatures take

voting laws and try to shape them in a way that will keep their opponents out of the electorate, we're seeing with the voter suppression efforts to keep african-americans out of the electorate, that's not the way our system is supposed to work. one of the controversial ideas we have in the book is compulsory attendance at the polls. people call it compulsory voting, but you can show up and draw mickey mouse on your ballot. but we want this as a civic obligation so that cities and states then have to reverse their own obligations. their job would not be to suppress voting but to make it possible for every single one of us to exercise our right and our duty to cast a ballot. >> i'm going to get to the news of the day but i want to ask you about the role of the media. you do write in the book that trump has made the media the enemy even though the media

helped make him the president. that's a critique of us, of your and my shared profession. what can the media do differently? >> fortunately i think you've already seen a push back against what we've done before. we talk in the book about how the media gave trump especially at the beginning of the campaign all of this unmediated access that no other ways other candidates got. in some ways the people that should be mad about that is the other republicans because they got shut out. paradoxically, because trump wasn't taken seriously, his flaws didn't show up until the end of the campaign. trump fended off one scandal story with another, but now i think it's very important that we defend the media's right to question those in power. and i think since his election

you've seen a real chains if the facts and the news point in a direction there are problems with this man in the white house. >> you at that about the role of prejudice. which brings me to what donald trump is doing now advice a have i the nfl and black athletes. you tweeted this morning trump's rant is mobilizing the urgent activism our democracy needs. expand on that. >> i think what you're seeing today is extraordinary, that quotation at the beginning of this segment, and you're seeing all kinds of people organize, including i suspect this afternoon a lot of nfl players who might not have had protest on their minds 48 hours ago but who are going to stand up in solidarity with their fellow ast

leets. we talked about all of the civil society groups that have stood up. we're tucking about people who are engaging in politics. if you dnd take it seriously before, you have to take it seriously now. young people are running for office which is something they weren't thinking about a year ago. the one thing we can take heart in from the trump experience is that americans have seen this threat and they've reacted to it and they -- trump has given us a jolt that could in the long run make our democracy a lot better as long as we survive his time in office. >> yeah, absolutely. even some not so young people and not necessarily people who are not of color. he voted for and supported trump. this is what he said about him this morning. >> i'm pissed off, i'll be

honest with you. i supported donald trump. i sat back and when he asked me to introduce him at a rally, you know, in buffalo, i did that. you about but i'm reading these comments and it's appalling to me and i'm sure it's appalling to any citizen in our country. calling our players sobs and all of that kind of stuff, that's not the -- that's not the men that i know. the men that i know in the locker room i'm proud of. i'm proud to be associated with those people and it's just so -- you know, i apologize for being pissed off, but guess what, that's it. right away, i'm he associated with what donald trump stands for and all of that because, you know, i introduced him. i never signed up for that. i never wanted that. that doesn't mean i -- you know, i support 100% of the things that he says. >> trump made a mistake by going to war against professional athletes? >> i think he has, and that was

the quote i was eluding to. a lot of people since the election have changed their minds about donald trump. and by the way, that includes a lot of white working class voters. what is in this for me? it includes very wealthy republicans like the owner of the bills and what you're seeing here is a president who knows no limits and who kind of thinks that he can carry his base with him anywhere. that shows a profound disrespect for the people who are supporting you. and the more he shows his true colors, the more people are obligated to say, wait a minute, this isn't what i meant in supporting trump. that's why we think there will be one nation after trump because we don't want a president who rips us apart this way. we don't want a country divided in the way that he needs to divide us to hang on to power.

>> yeah, indeed. e.j. dionne, my buddy and pal. thank you very much. you're going to be at politics and pros later. i'll do that next time as well. the book is "one nation after trump." everybody should pick it up. coming up at the top of the hour, we'll find out which nfl -- what nfl fans have to say about donald trump's call for team owners to fire protesting players. next, one of the stars of queen sugar joins me live. this is the story of john smith. not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are

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we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and all of our products rely on the same thing we all do... clean water. which is why we have john leading our efforts to replenish every drop of water we use. we believe our business thrives when our communities thrive. which is just one of the reasons we help make college a reality for thousands of students. today, companies need to do more. so john and willie are trying to do just that. thank you for listening. we're listening too. and life's beautiful moments.ns get between you flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. it helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. flonase changes everything. haven't you ever wanted sowatch your step.rry? a pilot like you should be flying for the c.i.a. you're c.i.a.? shh... you are an airline pilot.

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the are back. queen sugar, the hit tv show returns to own for the second half of season two next tuesday, october 3rd. mark your calendars. it kron alleys the lives of three siblings left to manage the sugarcane farm they inherited from their father. it also touches on themes of incarceration, police violence and the ways that slooifry continues to cast a long shadow over the lives of african americans today. they were still dealing with the aftermath of the discovery that their father intended to leave all of the land to his son and the youngest sibling raffle angel. and joining me now is the actor who brings raffle angel to life. it's so good to meet you. >> good to be here. >> so this show is a phenomenon. >> thank you. >> i mean, do you have that sense of it yet when you just sort of walk around in the world? >> i do. i see how people respond to it, but, you know, it's like a

child, you know. when you birth that child it doesn't matter how amazing and beautiful, handsome, famous it's like that's your baby. >> yeah. >> you put so much time and i've seen it grow from nothing. >> yeah. >> it's like i don't know what you all feel, but it's different to me. >> and you're very young. we were just joking before that the person that plays your nephew in the show, mike, and you are the same age. >> yeah. >> which is mind blowing because you definitely read older on camera and he reads much younger than he is. >> because i've got a baby too. that's why. >> exactly. and you play a dad. >> right. >> but it is your character, i think, has become the linchpin of the show for so many reasons. he's a really interesting character in terms of his attitude toward masculinety his tenderness with his son, the fact that he was incarcerated and dealing with that. did you have to get to know him yourself? >> i see what you're saying. i learned so much through -- situation right here. >> sorry. >> i learned so much through

raffle angel. as far as identity, i am a black man in america, so i understand that weight, you know. it's inherited with birth. but just the malignancy inkargs rags, being a father, his dynamic with darla. i have brothers. i don't have sisters. there's just so much life, like you said, that is internal for him and trying to find that or understand where he's coming from. it's a journey. and i don't think he knows himself, which is why it makes it so fun. >> well, the other piece of it is you're playing this young southern african-american man, but you yourself are first generation american like myself and your parents are from began a. >> i know. >> and actually, i got a little bit of a tip that you're related to the royal family in began that. what is it like growing up an american kid in an african family? >> i don't know. i just think it's the best of both worlds. immediately -- not immediately but you inherit this understanding that there's so much more. it's more than just america.

let's keep it real. we're all from africa. so just actually knowing where i'm from in africa and i went back to the first time last year, you know, so i appreciate that. i'm older now and i actually understand how important it is to know our roots because, again, identity, you know. i didn't always how much it would empower me to know that my blood isn't here in america, you know. i'm fully aware my american, you know -- >> right. >> but it's like let's be real. we're from africa. >> and yet this arctic you're playing, the family is enmeshed in this truly african-american story with all the residents of slavery and had that land and what it means to the family. did you have to sort of reacquaint yourself with kind of that aspect of being a black man. >> the crazy part is new orleans does that to you naturally. i've always been interested, but coming from l.a. there's not a place to really did he vour that. you could read a book. you could talk about it, but to

actually just back to normal like you want to get drinks. we're not talking about the game. we're talking about the statues. it kind of just came with the journey. and naturally i'm such a student so i'm looking. i'm just fully taking it in. >> well, you're obviously a star on the rice. and you're coming in at a high level working with a va do you ver nah and oprah win friday in your first series and girls trip the hit movie of the year. are you overwhelmed yet or are you just chill? >> i was overwhelmed and i'm chill. i'm transitioning, you know. it's highs and lows. how do you adjust to fame, mass attention. >> you're about tow to adjust with everyone on my staff. it's so great to meet you. congrats on all your success. >> appreciate it. >> all right. and more a.m. joy is coming up after the break. what do you have there?

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interview with hillary clinton you can catch it in full tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. let's go to the latest news with my girl alex witt. what's happening. >> so you've got a little bit of hollywood to end your show. i've got some sports to start mine. let's get right to it every one. good day to all of you i'm alex witt here at msnbc headquarters here in new york. here is what's happening. taking a knee and sending a message to the president. more than a dozen physical players with a direct response to the president as an over seas game is being played while the administration sends its own message. >> what the president is saying is that the owners should have a rule that players should have to stand in respect for the national an them. they could do free speech on their own time. >> and drama in the health care battle as well. another leading gop senator is right now he's a no.