concurring e-mail scandals has been fair. let us know what you think. i am ari melber. this is "the beat with ari melber." we'll be back at 6:00 p.m. eastern. check out hillary clinton on chris hayes tonight, 8:00 p.m. right up next, "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. political football. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. once upon a time there were leaders in this very land who faced moments of national horror and did all they could to unite us. there was birmingham in 1963 when people saw fire hoses and police dogs assaulting young african americans. it's when a young president went on nationwide television to say we had to do better. >> we are confronted primarily with a moral issue. it is as old as the scriptures and as clear as the american constitution.

the heart of the question is whether all americans are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities. >> there was the shooting of martin luther king five years later when a young senator went before a crowd of african americans to tell them the news and try to rescue hope. >> what we need in the united states is not division. what we need in the united states is not hatred. what we need in the united states is not violence and lawlessness. but is love and wisdom and compassion toward one another. and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country. >> there was the attack on the united states when the president stood for unity and urged people not to give way to religious hatred. >> the face of terror is not the true faith of islam.

that's not what islam is all about. islam is peace. these terrorists don't represent peace. they represent evil and war. >> well, these were moments when leaders took great heroic events, horrific events, earth shaking events, but used their leadership to try to hold people together. and then this weekend there was this from the current occupant of 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> wouldn't you love to see one of these nfl owners when somebody disrespects our flag to say get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out? he is fired. he is fired! >> like that contrast? donald trump took a small incident, a football player take agony, much as dr. king did once a half century ago, there he is, and turning that gesture into a firestorm of trouble and more division.

he followed it up with no fewer than 15 tweets this weekend. is he a leader? is he? donald trump has traded on identity politics for years, though he said his recent comments didn't have to do with race thinking has nothing to do with race. i've never said anything about race. this has nothing to do with race or anything else. this has to do with respect for our country and respect for our flag. >> well, the reaction from the nfl this weekend, displays of protest and solidarity from coast the coast. players kneeled or locked arms. many owners backed their players. even some well-known friends of trump criticized him. here is tom brady. >> i certainly disagree with what he said, and, you know, thought it was just divisive. you know, like i said, i just want to support my teammates. >> robert kraft, the owner of the new england patriots and a trump supporter released a statement saying i'm deeply disappointed by the tone of the comments made by the president on friday. so what is president trump up to? and are his words dividing the

country? david siren, a sports editor for "the nation" magazine. dante stallworth is a wide receive with six nfl teams. and heidi perez be a rydba. obviously "snl" has great satire. but i've never seen anything explode totally across the american landscape culturally. every television show today, i'm sure "the view" did it, everybody did it. we had a meeting with our producers. every one of our young producers is into this story, more than any story we've covered. tell me why tough, rough football, and this use of the race issue, the way he engaged with it. when he said "sons of bitches" he called players. >> here is the thing about donald trump. he never played the game. and yet he talks about football as if he is some kind of an expert just because he ran the

usfl into the ground, as if that qualifies him as an expert. when he stood on that stage, he violated something he doesn't even understand. that's something in the nfl locker room they call the brotherhood. which means that tons of nfl players may not agree with colin kaepernick's reason for taking the knee, fighting racial inequities in the criminal justice system, raising a voice against police violence. maybe they don't stand with him on those questions, but they do stand in solidarity with each other. so to hear the president telephone united states call for people to get fired, threatening their livelihoods, and then -- >> that's the picture i like. i hate talking ethnically, but i do it. the white player who puts his hand here over his chest with his left hand so he can put his other hand on his fellow player. >> that's what is so beautiful about the weekend. it showed an alternative model of solidarity that this president does not represent. he is in front of a crowd in alabama, calling nfl -- >> a white crowd. >> calling them sons of bitches. to say this has nothing to do

with race. it has everything to do with race. it has to do with venom. it has to do with his lizard brain that looks at his audience that said i know what they're going the respond to in huntsville. he wasn't counting on the brotherhood. he didn't know it would spread. >> you were in the lines you. were in uniform. i love wide receivers because you catch the ball. >> yep. >> magic hands. anyway, what did you feel about when you watched this whole spectacle this weekend? what did you think? >> the first thing i got was text message from aed by of mine, reggie bush. and we have a group text, a group chat that is about four or five guys. and i was a little surprised. but then i thought to myself well, it is donald trump. it's the president of the united states. he has done these things before. he has said worse things than what he said today or friday night in huntsville. but it also showed immediately the players' response right away. current player, former players, everyone. and then you had lebron jump in, steph curry. we felt like this was an attack on just just nfl players, but on

the whole professional sports as a whole. and everyone who was always speaking out in the community, speaking out on these issues that we really need to keep in the forefront and not allow donald trump to hijack this whole issue. >> you know, heidi, it's so fascinating. you and i talk all the time about everything. i was reading a wonderful speech delivered i think in australia over the weekend by bret stephens who is our new commentator here, previously of "the wall street journal." and he says we got to be for free speech. we got to be for agreeing to disagree. we got to learn how to sit next to somebody and disagree with him. the conservatives have been using that against the college protesters that won't let a right wing alt-right type person come to campus. but here we have so quickly on the heels of that debate, people who may be progressives. we don't know the politics of these players, but they definitely don't like the police situation right now. they saying they can't express themselves. >> they set themselves up as the snowflakes that they've been speak out against all across

campuses by football players socks. when you look at what is going on twitter here. i think the big question is why did he do this? why did he pick this fight? >> to stir things up in the conservative white community. >> it's either intentional to stir things up like and to distract from what is going on right now with north korea. >> an alabama defeat he is facing tomorrow night. >> i think if there is something to this, though, to the impulse aspect of this where he gets up in front of these crowds. and we see this time and again. he can't stop himself. he has this impulse he wants to throw out this salacious red meat to get them riled up. >> i'm not sure it's confined to what we think it is, race. have you noticed every time he had a rally, and that is sort of a tinge cher of fascism here. when you see somebody complaining against him, rallying against him, throw that bum out. and get physical with him and hurt him a little bit that is some of this instinct, the

s.o.b. phrase. it wasn't just that we disagree, we have to reduce him to something we can beat up. >> it's depressing. and it's really disturbing to see some of the trends that's been happening -- really before since he took office. a lot of the things that he has done now, you're talking about trying to limit free speech for certain people. he has attacked his political adversaries and threatened to jail them. he has attacked anyone who has pretty much seen that was in his way and in opposition to him. but to me the bigger disturbing fact is that i've been reading this book by dr. charles whitman. and it's basically called the nazi laws and how the nurenburg, how the nazi lawyers learned from jim crow laws and they modelled their nurenburg laws after jim crow. >> get me that book. >> i will. >> and it's a disturbing read. >> have you read it too? >> yeah. fantastic. >> it really shows the beginnings of how this country

was built on race law and race issues that we still haven't come to grips with today. >> the influence of jim crow and hitler. >> i'm struck by -- okay, this is not a lesson in economic determinism, but i'm a little taken with this. this player who started this by take agony. >> colin kaepernick. >> he can't get hired. >> right. >> the owners can't hire him. they make the decisions. so how come the owners are making one economic/political decision and switch this weekend? how did trump get it wrong? because trump probably figured the owners were on his side for their own reasons. >> this is where heidi i think gets it exactly right with the question of impulse control. because i think trump got up there to talk about the black dissenting nfl player, red meat for the audience. and then he couldn't help himself. this is why people don't like the nfl. >> ratings are down. >> this is why they don't hit anybody anymore. like he pined for traumatic brain injury. >> he wants more violence. >> more violence.

so what he was doing, though, he doesn't realize in nfl ownership circles, there is an existential fear right now about the future of the game. will it even exist in 20, 30, 40 years because science is not the nfl's friend. >> and the helmets can't do it. >> it's like trying to make a safer cigarette. you can have less tar, bigger filter. it's still going to give you cancer. what donald trump did is he went after the business of the nfl, the profits of the nfl. all the owners who wrote million checks, all of the sudden they found their inner dr. king and then they're on the field linking arms with the football players, including dan snider who looked so uncomfortable out there. >> i think dan -- >> he looked uncomfortable. he looked like a germophobe in a junkyard. >> he is not like that. you can knock him on personality and other things. >> i'm just saying he looked uncomfortable. >> he is very good. this weekend president trump went after one of the nba's biggest stars. we know who he is. he set sedona he wouldn't go to the white house. the president tweeted going to the white house is a great honor for a team.

her here he is. steph curry. >> it's kind of surreal, to be honest. i don't know why he feels the need to target certain individuals rather than others. i have an idea of why. but it's just kind of beneath a leader of a country to go that route. it's not what leaders do. >> identical that the height of understatement. but anyway, lebron james, let's him back his opponent. >> basically at a point where i'm just a little frustrated for him to try to use this platform to divide us even more. it's not something i can stand for and it's not something i can be quiet about. >> that must have been a short cameraman there. lebron. what do you think of this? i love steph curry. and i love kevin. >> so the thing with steph curry is that when the president attacked him, he attacked one of the more classiest, one of the best individuals that this game has to offer, all of sports has to offer. >> number one attraction today

is the three-pointer. >> yeah. >> everybody loves him. >> everybody loves it. the fact that he attacked him, you saw lebron's immediate response when he came out and he called the president of the united states a bum. and i think that just shows the solidarity, not only with the nfl players, but just in general with professional athletes feeling like this president is trying to intimidate us. >> has the president finally brought himself down to the level of anything he has ever said? i keep waiting, you know. what is he? you lay with dogs, you get fleas. these are classy opponents. but he seems worthy now in the attack. like lebron is not going to take any heat for calling him a bum which tells you the mistake trump got into here. >> i think so. i want the say that have i talked to some people, are the swing voters, the obama trump voters. i made a point to calling back some of these men i met in a bowling alley a couple of weeks ago who were the trump voters. and i think we made a mistake in

constantly analyzing these interruptions to appealing to the base. no. the people who elected him were not just the base. they were these swing voters. so i made a point of calling back and talking to them. they said look, this is the kind of thing that we tolerated because -- we didn't like it. we never liked it. but we tolerated it because we thought he was going to do great things for the country. he was going do all of these things on infrastructure and bring back jobs. the more he does this stuff, the more intolerable it becomes. i spoke to a man who was big trump supporter. met him two weeks ago. and he was very irritated by this. >> wow. and when you alex smith who is the white quarterback of the kansas city chiefs say why is it donald trump has more criticism for us than neo-nazis in charlottesville? that really does have an impact beyond what we've typically seen. >> you're obviously a great editor. put that together. no, i'm serious. it's fantastic. i don't always think, he is so angry about this, and it's not

ethnic? >> yeah. >> and he is not angry about these white guys running around like nazis? he is not angry at them. he never gets into it with white guys. >> his own actions speak for themselves. >> i think it's terrible. and i think the moral factor, i'll say it at the end of the show, presidents should be moral authorities. republican or democrat, even george w., not my favorite, would come along and say don't hate muslims. this is not what this is about. it takes moral authority to do that. you can't be a clown and try to make a moral statement. nobody cares what clowns think. david siren, thank you. i didn't know the nation had a big sports section. dante stallworth and heidi pryzbala. enough to kill the bill and save obama. again, pearls of pauline here. but there is a personal fight over health care between john mccain and president trump. trump attacked mccain who is no vote on the appeal and mccain hit back. we're going watch that. that's coming up in a fight

tonight. plus, what's the point of trump escalating the name calling with north korea? he is now calling kim jong un the little rocketman, of course. and now the north koreans are accusing trump of declaring war which i don't think he did, but they're going to play that game because of what he said. they're threatening to shoot down american planes anywhere near their space. back to our story. the round table tackles the battle of trump's battle with the nfl, the political football for his base, or senior is this or isn't this a political winner for his base? heidi doesn't think so. we'll see. heidi the swing vote. she is right here to correct me. finally, let me finish with a trump watch. this is "hardball," where the action is. than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company,

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corruption. >> we know hillary can't be trusted. we've learned that with america's security. you take a look at her e-mail situation. can we trust her with our security? >> she should have been disqualified for running for president from the first batch of e-mails. >> first batch. anyway, today we learned trump's top white house adviser and son-in-law jared kushner has used a personal -- has used a personal e-mail address while working there the west wing. politico reported kushner used a private e-mail account set up during the transition last december to correspond with other administration officials. so it's been official. kushner's attorney abbey law confirmed kushner has used a personal e-mail account but says it handled fewer than 100 e-mails between january and last month. we'll be right back. $700 off select mud spa packages for two... and up to $1,300 off family packs of venison. ( ♪ )

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welcome back to "hardball." senate republicans pushed to repeal obamacare's now dead on arrival, doa. late today senator susan collins of maine announced her

opposition to the graham/cassidy bill. she joins john mccain of arizona and rand paul of kentucky in opposition. now as we know the math, three republican no votes leaves senate republicans short of the 50 they need because they only have 50 to start with. 52 is 49. no cigar. the announcement from collins comes just after the congressional budget office announced a, quote, preliminary estimate. it found while the bill would reduce the deficit by $133 billion over ten years and cut medicaid spending by $1 trillion over ten years, the number of people with comprehensive health insurance that covers high cost medical events would be reduced by, this is a phrase, millions. and it said medicaid bloc grants to states would cause market disruptions. collins said the cbo's analysis, incomplete though it is due to time constraints confirms this bill will have a substantially negative impact on the number of people covered by insurance. the bill is already imperiled earlier in the day where i was up there watching this in the

senate building. the protesters are amazing. some in wheel chairs. there was a blind fellow there. there have people who have really lived their lives in wheelchairs. these were desperate, tough cases. real, real health challenges these people faced. they were dragged out of a senate finance committee today, disrupted for interrupting a hearing to consider that graham/cassidy obamacare repeal bill. anyway, the battle to repeal obamacare had gotten personal with the president blaming john mccain personally for not getting it done. on "60 minutes" last night, john mccain was asked if his vote against a july repeal effort was retaliation for the president's mocking of his vietnam war service during the '16 campaign. in his years as a prisoner of war. let's watch this. >> if i took offense at everybody who has said something about me or disparaged me or something like that, life is too short. you've got to move on. and on an issue of this importance to the nation, for me to worry about a personal relationship, then i'm not doing

my job. he is in the business of making money. and he has been successful. both on television as well as miss america and others. i was raised in a military family. i was raised in the concept and belief that duty, honor, country is the lode star for the behavior we have to exhibit every single day. >> did he ever apologize for saying you're not a hero? >> no. >> well, still president trump doubled down on his criticism of mccain today. >> health care i've been watching for seven years. when we have 52 senators. so you lose two, you're out. when i ran, i was told i'd have a bill on my desk, i'd sign it day one. and what mccain has done is a tremendous slap in the face of the republican party. that's the only reason we don't have it, because of john mccain.

>> well, for more on the fight over health care now, growing increasingly personal, i'm joined by wisconsin u.s. senator, democrat tammy bowman. thank you for joining us. i have to tell you i was watching the vietnam thing on npr last night, public television which is spectacular. i'm watching them interview john mccain. he is like this. he had broken arms. he had both arms broken, his legs broken. he is like in a straitjacket. he can't move. he has had some kind of medical treatment by the communist north vietnamese. and some french journalist asked him and he refuses even in that condition to do what the captors wanted to do, which is thank them publicly for how well they treated him. if he can put up with that, he doesn't have any problem with trump. >> for sure, for sure. and it just shows you watch something like that, it's deeply personal. and john mccain has talked a lot about process. hasn't talked a lot about what it means to not have health care and what it means to have it.

but you know that that's sort of going on in his consideration of this too. and -- >> he can't raise his arms. >> right. >> he has permanent challenges, disabilities from what happened to him. and he treats the president in his words as sort of a carnival operator. some guy that does beauty contests, a clown. and i heard that. you heard it. >> i did. >> he doesn't take him seriously as somebody to argue with. >> john mccain has been serving in various capacities, his country throughout his entire life. and he doesn't have to name it. you just know it. and he has done the right thing in saying he will vote no on this measure. he did the right thing in july when we thought it might be over. >> 1:30 in the morning. >> yes. when we thought we had resolved this. but we're going i guess through until the september 30th midnight deadline. but that said, i think part of what we're seeing is so many

people following his and other leads and telling their personal stories. this is personal. and when you show the footage of the finance committee hearing, you're talking about people who are so frightened about whether they can live independently. >> quadriplegics. >> right. >> where medicaid is the difference. >> let me ask you about something. it's interesting to notice the women in the republican party. there aren't that many. there are more in the democratic caucus. you see murkowski is very impressed. susan collins, always been a fan of her. do you think it's a gender factor or just geography? why they have been the ones most brazenly going after trump saying i don't care what you think. now susan collins came out today and just said no. >> right. >> i don't know if there are women involved in this, women are more concerned about health care. they have been gutsy. >> i agree absolutely. >> the republicans. >> and i find among the women in a bipartisan manner that we

typically ran for these positions because we wanted to fix things. we wanted to work. we wanted to get the best ideas. we wanted to work in a bipartisan manner. >> i only got a few minutes. when are we going have democrats toy seay to democrats or republicans to democrats you know what? this gladiatorial stuff has gotten us nowhere. why don't we sit down, make a list of what's wrong with obamacare and just do it? >> that's exactly what we've been doing since july with susan collins, lisa murkowski, with patty murray, myself, all on the health committee. >> when will it come to the floor? >> well, as soon as we defeat this, it better. because we have actually through lamar alexander and patty murray's leadership had a high degree of consensus on ways to fix obamacare to stabilize the insurance market, bring down costs, exactly what the public wants us to do. exactly. >> next time chuck and nancy and donald are having chinese at the white house, which i think is great, big city, very big city people, do it.

it would be great. you're a great, great senator. >> thank you. >> thank you so much for coming on. >> thank you. >> anyway, that's senator tammy baldwin of wisconsin. for now we're joining by congresswoman nan hayworth, a republican from new york state and a member of the women's independent board of director. thank you for joining us. are we going to get to fixing the problem? where are we at now? i think the gladiatorial part is over. everybody has tried. i don't think there were votes for repeal in the republican party. there were votes for repeal in something called replace, but nobody could agree on the replace part. it seems somebody ought to put their hand up in the air and say no mas, we can't do this anymore. we're actually going fix it now. your thoughts? >> chris, i agree. we do need to fix it. obamacare, unfortunately, the affordable care act is failing. it is in a deadly spiral. >> well fix it! >> well, i agree with you. i agree with you. and the best way to fix it, cassidy/graham would have been a great improvement. even the cbo said it's broad estimates, it didn't come out

with details, as you know. >> would have, could have, should have. >> but states would be able to craft better more fitting insurance for their population, and more people would be going to work. so we need to hold those ideals with us. and i know that the senate could come up with a bill that could pass, that could get at least 50 republican votes if they could broaden the terms of the bill. >> that's not going to happen. >> you know what? i love -- >> trying and trying. in other words, you'ring, congresswoman, that you haven't given up. you still think republicans can do this by one party alone. >> and optimism a republican. and i'm a republican, the only female physician of either party ever a member of congress. and i can tell you that there is great will to do this right. and, yes, i agree. we want democrats to work in this process. but quite honestly, senator schumer has no intention of participating meaningfully in passing that kind of a bill through the senate. so we've got to do it with republican votes. >> what do you have to say to

john mccain tonight? the president calls him the problem. do you think he is a problem? >> i honor and respect your service. i wish you nothing but health and healing. i think your better decision would have been to fulfill the campaign pledges you gave to the folks in arizona who elected you and to have voted yes for cassidy/graham. >> but cassidy/graham wasn't on the ballot last year. >> but repeal and replace was, chris. and this is in many senses the only realistic chance we have to make things better. and it would have done that. >> okay. but i think we're replace and repeal is a non sequitur. u.s. congresswoman nan hayworth of new york state. what is president trump getting by escalating his they aye tacks on the leader of north korea. are we safer because president trump calls him the little rocketman? high school again. high school harry. this is "hardball" where the action is.

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rocketman should have been handled a long time ago. i'm going handle it because we have to handle it. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was of course president trump at his alabama rally friday night, telling supporters that he'd handle north korea, whatever that means. in a late night tweet this weekend, he added just heard foreign minister of north korea speak at u.n. if he echoes thoughts of little rocketman, they won't be much

longer. well, north korea construed this as president trump declaring war. let's watch that. >> translator: last weekend trump claimed that our leadership wouldn't be around much longer, and hence at last he declared war on our country. since the u.s. declared war on our country we will have every right to make counter measures, including the right to shoot down the u.s. strategic bomber, even when they are not yet inside the airspace border of our country. the question of who won't be around next longer will be answered then. >> well, today white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders dismissed those remarks. >> we have not declared war on north korea. and frankly, the suggestion that of is absurd. >> well, this comes after senior aides to president trump repeatedly warned him not to deliver a personal attack on north korea's leader at the united nations this week, saying in sullying the young despot in such a prominent venue could irremember probably escalate tensions and shut off any chance

for negotiations to diffuse the nuclear crisis, according to "the l.a. times." i'm joined by gordon chang, author of nuclear showdown: north korea takes on the world. mr. chang, thank you. i have no idea what's going on in the head of kim jong un. what can you tell us? >> i think he is very concerned. we live in a democracy. so our government is inherently legitimate. not so the north koreans. and they're very worried about attacks on the dignity of the leader. especially because north korea is like a cult. so it's almost considered to be existential. that's why you got the comments of ri hong yo and this morning at the impromptu press conference, you can see how seriously they take this. >> when you look at these guys, the way they march, the way they smile in unison, everything is synchronized swimming in terms of their physical behavior. it's like they're going to look at the game pictures afterwards.

if anybody isn't smiling the right amount, isn't kissing up to the guy appropriately, they're dead. is that the environment in which a guy like him would be sensitive, because he doesn't know what criticism sounds like? >> absolutely right, chris. and to talk about people being dead for in inappropriate displays, you had a senior north korean leader sleeping during a kim jong un speech last year, and the guy was actually executed, only for that. so clearly this is something which is commonplace. >> well, let's talk about president trump. i'll put you in the box. if you were advising any american president, how do you deal with a touchy guy like this who does have the possibly to put a bomb in san francisco potentially the next few years? i don't know. i'm i don't know how close he is. but he may be over the next five or ten years capable of hitting us here. >> yeah. the answer to your question is zero insults, far less rhetoric, much more pressure.

you know, president trump had a great thursday with the announcement of those sanctions in his executive order. and what he needed over the weekend was for the rest of the world to talk about cutting off the flow of money to north korea. because that's really critical. if we're going to have a peaceful solution, that's what has to come first. instead we're talking about president trump's early morning tweet on friday saying kim jong un was obviously a madman. and then since of course we've had all the comments about the nfl and other related matters. so no one is really focusing in on that executive order, which i think is a big step forward. so basically, president trump stepped on his own message. >> great guest you. are a great guest you. should give lessons on how to be clear on television. that is so clear. walk softly, carry a big stick. thank you so much, gordon chang for joining us tonight. up next, president trump's fight with this guy. let's face it, he is nor identity politician than anybody. but it could work with liz base. do you think? i don't know. i just don't know. i'm not sure the base is going

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welcome back to "hardball." taking on the nfl and professional athletes as such, president trump has been accused of fueling racial tensions in this country, in fact, divisions. the president's assertion that his remarks aren't about race underlying the demonstrating point as demonstrations that began a way to bring attention to racial disparity. he is repeatedly championed the needs of his base and a continued embrace of racial politics, as seen in his taking sides against the nfl protests. and that fits the parnitly. whether referring to african americans, muslims or immigrants, let's watch a few awful examples. >> why doesn't he show his birth certificate? and you know what? i wish he would. i think it's a terrible pale

that's hanging over him. he should show his birth certificate. >> they're bringing drugs. they're bringing crime. they're rapists. >> donald trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> look at my african american over here. look at him. >> are we going to work on our ghettos. >> right now you walk down the street, you get shot. >> places like afghanistan are safer than some of our inner cities. >> you have to look at the muslims, and we have to do something. we cannot stand by and be the stupid people while our country is destroyed. >> if it were a muslim judge, would you also feel like they wouldn't be able to treat you fairly because that of policy of yours? >> it's possible, yes, yeah. that would be possible. oh, absolutely. >> his wife, if you logistic at his wife, she was standing there. she had nothing to say. she probably maybe she wasn't allowed to have something to say. >> you have a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. you also had people that were

very fine people, on both sides. >> i'm joined now with the "hardball" round table. a columnist with "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. ginger gibson is a correspondent with reuters, national political reporter for bloomberg news. gene, there anything more to say about this? >> no, he said it, right? what more is to there to say about this episode except that we didn't preview in those clips? this has been donald trump before he got into politics this was donald trump. not just the birther stuff. the first time he was in the newspaper probably was when he and his father were sued for racial discrimination in renting apartments in queens. and then he made a big deal of the central park five. and insisted they were guilty even after dna had conclusively proved -- >> he stuck to that case, he stuck with it until like last year. >> is he doing this for showmanship with his base? sore it what he believes or doesn't it matter? >> i think it's what he

believes. you know, i use this quote too often. but maya angelou said when somebody tells you who they are, why don't you believe them? he has been telling us for years and years who he is. why don't we believe him? >> i think there is a brutality added to the ethnic feature, the racial feature, if you will. i think his love of saying "throw them out, rough them up, be tough with these people," anything that suggests a fascistic point of view. >> trump has a playbook. and it's got one line in it. if it worked the last time do, it again. and throwing out outrageous statements that get people to say i can't believe he would ever say that. that's going to make his polls drop, the whole world turn out upside down. he comes out on top and says look, that worked. it was the right thing to do. >> who was it who said they have 300 and some executions in texas, and they were all cheering. i made that was something that may have predated trump. clearly it's ethnic. do you think it is?

>> he has walked into a fight that was about race. and he knew it was about race. and there is no way you could call it anything else. and that was clear. >> let me ask heale about this. i started off the show showing how politicians have addressed tremendous tragedies like the killing of dr. king or 9/11. and they found a way to look good because they said let's not make anger the reaction of this whole thing. even bobby kennedy is walking into a tough neighborhood. and he says your spiritual leader is dead and a white guy did it, but let's talk. what would trump have done? he wouldn't have gone into that neighborhood. trump would have gone to another neighborhood. nobody tries to be a moral authority anymore. nobody tries to say right or wrong. trump never says this is right and that's wrong. he is this is white, maybe, but he doesn't say it's wrong or right. we've lost the moral imperative completely. >> it's usually the role of presidents to try to bridge divides when you are in that situation. when you the largest megaphone in the world, that's what

previous presidents have done. president trump, this president has a different impulse. he loves riling people up. he knows the value of this. >> but it's always the same crowd, the peanut gallery. i see him intent on following the president's lead. newt gingrich, he is awful, suggested yesterday the players can't feel oppressed because they're millionaires. let's watch newt. >> watching people who -- young guys who are multimillionaires explain that the country hasn't been good to them, watching them refuse to honor the symbol of those who have died so they could be free is very, very frustrating. if you're a multimillionaire who feels oppressed, you need a therapist, not a publicity stunt. >> isn't that cute? others were calling the players ungrateful. former congressman joe walsh tweeted, quote, remember all this nfl stuff began before trump? it began because ungrateful millionaire athletes thought america racist. they're wrong. jelani cobb in the new yorker, the term ungrate saffle coded

word. the belief endures that visible, affluent african american entertainers are obliged to adopt a pose of ceaseless gratitude, appreciation for the waiver that spared them the low status solve many others of their kind. ungrateful is the new uppity. >> don't get me started. absolutely right. >> the ungrateful term. aren't they lucky we gave them some money? we don't have affirmative action in football, do we? these guys are the best players. that's why they're out there. and they work since they were 5 years old to be the best. >> they worked hard to get where they are. and you try to do the stuff they do. but no, they're supposed to be grateful that they were granted a mission to the great white country club. >> yeah. kirks we also note that president trump is a millionaire himself? nobody takes issue when he says no, we've got change this and that about the country, we've got make it great. these are different people. the athletes are speaking out in their own version of what they think this country is lacking.

and i think it's important to remember they're not protesting -- >> let me hear a little bit about -- i don't know why. it seems to me if a player wants to do -- take a knee and show a point of view about the flag, a point of view about the justice system, that's a point of view. that's not a really disparagement. it isn't really an assault. it isn't flag burning. it isn't even this, the fist in the air. it isn't like that. it's a reasonable statement of political objection, which is exactly what the right is saying we got to do on college campuses everywhere in the country that the first amendment should be honored across the board. and if you disagree with somebody's politics, let them speak don't they see the inconsisten inconsistency? if you can do it on a college campus, why can't you do it in a football stadium sfwhoyrks you call a millionaire complaining about the tax that they're taxed by the government ungrateful? that's a clear example. this is how the government treats people. >> they never do that. the round table is staying with us. up next, these people tell me

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we're back with the "hardball" round. eugene, tell me something i don't know. >> mitt romney tweeted this afternoon instead of chasing all these crazy story, what everyone in d.c. should be focused on is the humanitarian disaster in puerto rico and the virgin islands. and he's right. just reading the news from down there, it's a horrible situation. arguably getting worse and worse in puerto rico without power, with people stranded, with community flooded. and we should be hearing more about that. circumstances this katrina? >> it could turn into katrina or something worse than katrina. >> ginger? >> if you're following this football debacle debate, the place to watch is woody johnson. he was a trump donor. he had fund raised for him and he owns the jets. he is now a member of the trump administration. he is an ambassador to great britain. >> and his view? >> he has been very quiet. his brother is running the team

in his absence. he locked arms with the players on sunday. but there were no kneelers on the jets team on sunday. >> chris, obama care repealed another death in congress today. the deadline is saturday to either get this done or give up. and the republicans' next big thing, their next best chance to get anything major done in legislative terms this year is a tax plan they plan on releasing wednesday. it's going to include across the board cuts including for wealthy, including for corporations. this is going to be a big fight. >> we'll see what it's got for the middle class who voted for trump. thank you. we'll be right back. i no longer live with

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trump watch september 25th, 2017. you know what is missing in national politics today? i think it's moral authority. who has the standing today to say what is right or wrong? who even makes the effort? who at the top even brings up the question of basic morality. think about that scene we showed briefly at the beginning of the program of robert kennedy standing before an african american audience in indianapolis and telling them martin luther king had just been killed. think about the moral authority to that april night to appeal to that group to show restraint to avoid violence, not to hate but to love. kennedy words seem like they're from another place as well as another time. today we have become so clouded and overrun by nasty, derisive nicknaming by attacking on ethnic groups as rapists by a claim that a duly elected chief executive saying women are worthy of being grab and

exploited sexually. today it's natural the game. anything goes. the leader, the moderator of all that is the president. moral authority, a sense of right and wrong, an acceptance that here on earth our job is to be good to each other? it's not even heard of these days. certainly not from the white house. and that's "hardball" for now. it really is. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> fired! >> the president attacks, and hillary responds. >> it's quite telling that he is willing to attack black athletes. >> tonight hillary clinton on the president's response to puerto rico. >> he clearly doesn't want to talk about puerto rico. >> to hillary clinton. >> do you think the president has any idea what's in any of these bills? no. i don't think he has any idea turkey, russian collusion. >> if it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. >> all that and the governor of puerto rico, when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes there is breaking news tonight. the gop's latest a