succeeding as a party and failing. it's the difference between having a majority in 2018 or losing it. it's the difference between one term and two. ♪ republican for lindsey graham framing just how important passing tax reform is to his party. yesterday, republicans rolled out their tax proposal. but will it fair any better than their plan to appeal obamacare? and how will a 15% party approval rating help? we've got the new numbers this morning. more than a week after hurricane maria and slow-moving aid from the u.s. causing frustration, to say the least, in puerto rico. officials acknowledge they're having trouble getting supplies where they need to go. we will go live to the dire scene there. good morning, it is thursday, september 28th. welcome to "morning joe." with us we have "morning joe"

economic analyst seve radner. in washington the bureau steve julie pace is with us. good to have you both along with willie, joe and me. this new national poll shows a majority of voters holds doubts about president trump's ability to serve in office. asked in a quinnipiac university poll whether donald trump is quote fit to serve as president, a majority, 56%, say no. 42% say he is. this as his job approval tipped up one point from august. now at 36% to approve, 57 disapprove. on the issues, americans have slightly favorable views of h handling of the economy and terrorism, with approval at 48. at 47% for each issue. but about six in ten americans disapprove of his job performance on other major issues. 38% approve of him on both foreign policy and immigration and 34% approve on environment and health care.

but the president is far ahead of republicans in congress. just 15% of voters approve of their job performance in the quinnipiac university poll. >> that is down ten points since june. >> stop right there for a second. you know, willie, 15%, let's keep that up. 15% approval rating is obviously horrific. the fact that they have lost two points just in a month, i don't know that i've seen congress approval ratings move quite like that. and to go again from 25 to 15% shows just what a terrible position these republicans in congress find themselves in. >> you saw it in alabama two nights ago. that was a state that loves donald trump, that voted against the candidate he endorsed because they so despised mitch mcconnell and the congress and the money and the establishment that got behind luther strange. >> that number 15% is around

where it's been historically for congress. but it's going down, that itself the mood of the country right now. >> that people are feeling like, washington is the source of the problem. people who like donald trump, they don't even believe he's the problem, necessarily. they believe it's mitch mcconnell and other republican was have not put up a wall, who have not gone repeal and replace of obamacare done. they're not doing anything, it's reflecting in the polls. >> steve radner talked about how republicans in cgrs he now replaced barack obama as the great evil, the great political evil to rail against. so it's always going to be somebody. and you know it was, you know, barack obama or nancy pelosi, now it's mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. >> as willie said, for good reason. they haven't gotten anything done t. president has been in the office almost a year. they're fighting within the republican party. they have been there before. we seen congressional approval

ratings down in the low teens. few go back to the government shutdown and later in the obama term when they were not getting anything done t. public seems to have an antenna for when congress is doing something and when they're fought. >> yeah. >> the republican party is coming to grips with tuesday's results in alabama where roy moore, a fire brand on the party's fringes easily won the u.s. senate primary after being heavily outspent by allies of the president and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. the "new york times" obtained a memo about the alabama election that circulated among republican donors, written by steven law, which said primary voters were intensely angry and inclined to blame republicans for dysfunction in washington. quote, the republican congress has replaced president obama as the boogieman for conservative g.o.p. primary voters, this narrative is driven by trump himself and it resonates with

primary voters who believe the republican congress isn't doing enough as we frequently heard in focus groups to advance the president's agenda. law went on to say, that should expect to fight hard right primary candidates in states like mississippi and nevada and criticized steve bannon who backed floor focused on promoting his own brand. yesterday president trump said he spoke with roy moore and commented on mitch mcconnell's roam in the senate primary. >> roy ran a really great race and i know what they did with mitch and they used it very much in the campaign, but he works hard and i'm sure that things will work out. >> you will have to ask the senator about that. >> i do have confidence in him. yes, i do have confidence in him. but it's really not up to me. it's up to the senate.

but i do have confidence in him. i will sigh they used him in the race and i was very honored by the way i was treated in the race, but they used him in the race. >> if roy moore is elected to the senate, one of the big issues surrounds minimum griegs and daca. in a local alabama radio interview back in july, moore appeared to have no concept of the program. >> would you have supported him into the d.r.e.a.m.er program that president trump still continues to push? >> pardon? the d.r.e.a.m.er program? >> yes, sir. >> the daca, you are fought not aware of what d.r.e.a.m.ers are? >> no. >> d.r.e.a.m.ers is a big issue in the immigration debate. >> why don't you tell me what it is, dale, quit beating around, tell me what it is. >> i'm in the process of doing that, judge moore. >> okay. >> it certainly does bring to mind, nicole wallace, saying,

i'm tired of the debates about whether the republican party will be the conservative party or the liberal party. i'm just tired of us being the stupid party. and you know, you can elect all the people you want to washington, d.c. carrying torches, but you have a president who wants to reorder one-sixth of the economy, who doesn't know any of the details, none of the details he doesn't hear on cable news about the actual bills that would do that and here, we have a guy that wants to get elected to the united states senate, doesn't even know what daca is or the d.r.e.a.m.ers are, which means he is so isolated from any news, from any knowledge of the deba it in washington, d.c. that you even wonder why he's applying for the job? i mean, this would be -- this

would be like somebody that decided to be a judge that didn't even know we didn't have a religious freedom amendment in our constitution. the first amendment. >> reporter: well, it's just one of many reasons why -- >> oh, he doesn't know that, either, he's two for two there. >> reporter: it's one of many reasons republicans on capitol hill are nervous about the prospect of roy moore being in the senate. on the one hand, he doesn't have knowledge of the actual issues that he would be working on here. daca is something, this election is in december. daca is something that will be coming down pretty quickly based on what trump and the democrats have been talking about. so that would be on his plate right away. and, of course the other piece of it is what he focuses on, tends to be issues that are really outside the main stream for the republican party. he is so far right on so many social issues and republicans

know that if he's up here in the capitol, it's going to be roy moore's comments day after day that they are going to be asked about, trump tweets and roy moore controversies, that's a really unappealing conversation for republicans in 2018 mid--term elections. >> we are talking steve radner doesn't go to any of his positions on anything. any of his deeply offensive statements on anything. i'm just talking in general about his complete ignorance of the job he's about to take on. it's the same thing when you talk about donald trump and his complete ignorance of any policy, ignorance, defined as lack of knowledge. and donald trump has never had any idea, all of his staff members say, everybody else said it, he never had any idea what was inside those health care

bills. he just wanted to really neat signing ceremony. >> it's not an attack, it's a reality. >> roy moore, i can hear people, you just don't like him, he's a christian. you don't like him because he's socially conservative. no, i'm actually really good. most of my friends that i grew up with, christians and are socially conservative. also, i'm not voting for any of them if they're completely ignorant as to the job they're about to take on. and this is what's -- the stupidity, this ignorance is what is a fact, infecting the republican party even more than a lot of the radical ideology, because they don't know what they're do going they don't. it reflects a strain in america today where people are reaching out, and willing to vote for people who are out of the box, in addition to what you said, this is a guy who was removed twice from the alabama supreme court, who clearly has some screws loose. but there is another piece to

this, too, which this is going to complicate matters for mitch mcconnell. mitch mcconnell put millions of dollars into luther strange's campaign. now he has a guy in his caucus hardly beholden to him as he tries to assemble 50 votes to getting stuff done. it makes his problem even worse. >> doesn't know. >> to your point, if we watch this again if 2018, i think it was the case with donald trump as well, at what costs are voters willing to send a message to washington that we don't like you guys? you are willing to take donald trump and all his faults and all his distasteful beliefs, you are willing to take roy moore and all his abhorrent things he says about gay people, muslims and others and his fundamental lack of understanding of an issue in daca, that we had a national debate about for a month, at least a month. >> and what's so funny is, willie, a lot of people said, roy moore might win because donald trump is caving on daca. >> right. >> he's in the middle of that!

he still doesn't know! what's he doing? polishing his little pistol? what is he doing? to wave that thing around on stage? c'mon, man. >> so i will be very interested to see what happens in mississippi, tennessee, other states like that, where there olympic an open seat, what kind of candidates voters send to washington. you mentioned mitch mcconnell having trouble with this. politico report yesterday showed how a number of republican lawmakers did their best to avoid commenting on roy moore and his history on controversial beliefs.

. >> someone took a stand. how hard is this? >> you can see this coming a mile away. roy moore is going to say outrageous things on the campaign trail and republicans are going to have to answer to it and the reason republicans are going to have to answer to it is not because the media is liberal, but because the republican establishment is going to be fun neling money into that race. they are going to be putting their name and their endorsement on a candidate who is wildly out of the main stream and actually doesn't even know the bakes about policy. >> reporter: absolutely. you saw that pivot happen. not with those lawmakers that were recorded there, but with mcconnell, he was talking to roy moore yesterday.

trump obviously talked to moore and you are going to see the party apparatus shift behind moore, in part, because democrats look at this race and say, hey, alabama is always going to be a long shot for democrats. they don't expect to actually win there. but they sure would like to make republicans over the next couple of months defend roy moore, put money into that state. put ads up defending him. if they can get republicans looking like they are behind this candidate that so many of these republican lawmakers wish they didn't have to be, that actually is as much a victory for democrats as perhaps taking that seat. >> let's try and take a look at policy here. steve radner is here to explain the middle class miracle that is president trump's tax proposal. >> because, mika, this is what they're saying, hey, everything's gone badly. but now, we have tax reform. >> here we go. so everyone is going to be okay. thank thank god, go ahead. >> one it does little or nothing

for individual taxpayers. a lot for business. two, it would significantly increase the national debt and, three, it is really, really bad news for blue states, new york, connecticut, california, that have high state and local taxes. so let's take a quick look at some of the numbers. it's a $5.8 trillion tax cut on the top line, $3 trillion allegedly for individuals, but in fact they eliminate a number of important itemized deductions for individuals, particularly state and local taxes. so on average, these are all very rough early numbers, because they haven't released all the details, but on average, individual americans, in fact, will have a small tax increase, certainly no tax decrease, while business still has $2.5 trillion of tax cuts, basically $2 trillion of net tax cuts all of it going to billions. so you can imagine what $2.2 trillion of tax cuts does for the deficit.

under our currents law the deficit will rise to 91% by 2027 up from about 68% or so sorry, about 75% at the moment. 68% back in 2011. this tax plan would take it to at least 101%. >> that doesn't include some other things that haven't been spelled out quite yet that could potentially take it higher. for the first time since world war ii, we would have debt larger than the size of our economy under this plan. >> okay. so the middle class. how are they going to do? >>. >> well, the middle class, there is quicks and takes, basically they will get nothing. there are some gives and some takes but on balance, they get nothing. but look what happens to people who live in the blue states, particularly connecticut and new york. so they want to eliminate the deduction for state and local tacks, which is obviously a big deal to people out in those parts of the country. >> that would cost the average new yorker or the average resident of connecticut over $4,000 and then you can see the red states over here that have

only really property taxes, in many cases, don't have state income taxes, they would have much smaller losses. so this would actually be quite devastating for individuals who live in those states as well as the states, themselves, because they have to deal with that problem. >> so when he says middle class miracle as the president said yesterday, what is he talking about? >> this is a figurement of his imagine nation, there are no middle tax cuts in here. they changed the tax brackets around the way standard deduction work, things like that. >> so it's like him saying that grand cash would have passed except for the six senators that have passed -- can cc yo ask yo quickly. >> i heard reports about him behind closed toors. >> i'm trying to do something here. >> sorry. go ahead. >> good god.

>> adding a little color. >> yeah. let's -- >> can i talk, then you talk. good god, interrupting me. i don't. >> i know. really. >> i really can't. >> so alex, willie and i, we are kind of candy stripers for the rich and powerful. and so any time a member of the house and the senate go to the hospital, willie and i are there. dan will sometimes come along with us, too. so can you tell me, what's the name of the senator that was ill and in the hospital and -- >> how is he doing -- >> that stopped cassidy-graham from pass something. >> that's the question. here's the deal, senator thad come r cochran at home healing from a your logic issue -- euyour urol issue.

he already had three people not voting for the bill. so he wouldn't have mattered. >> wait. >> a urological issue. >> joe! >> he was not in the hospital and it would not have mattered, willie. that's what -- >> so what is the president saying? i don't understand. >> he's sort of -- it's kind of like and, kids, this is where we close the circle. it's kind of like the middle class miracle. it just doesn't exist. it's a figment of his imagine eight. he also came out yesterday, i love this -- on facebook had no impact. he just denies, like, the most basic realities. he always has the pace of it actually is quickening. >> we got a fact check from senator cochran, himself, yesterday, who tweeted -- thanks, for the well wishes. i'm not hospitalized. >> so question. >> okay. >> question for the table. >> willie, maybe we can -- maybe

there is some city councilman that we can go visit. >> perhaps. >> can we get a refund on the edible arrangement sent? >> increasing number of people, according to quinnipiac, think the president is not fit. when are we allowed to ask that question and it be okay? >> i think you already have. >> like it's inappropriate. you got a growing number of americans who are saying, he's not fit to be president. he says things that are not true every day. he manipulates the truth. >> they're trying to sell a bit of a trojan horse. there are tax cuts for individuals over here. they take them back over here. so, in fact, this is in its entirety a tax cut for business. there is nothing for individuals. >> there is nothing there. >> mika, that number was amazing, that's not an approval rating. it's not is he doing a good job? that's should he be in the office. >> he is not fit to be president. >> he is not fit.

>> at this point i think we can honestly ask the question -- >> to serve as president, 56% say no. >> you called him down right stupid. >> he is not fit. >> ignorant i think. >> ignorant was the word. see, it's interesting, when you say it, it's okay. if i were to say this, lord know what is will happen. >> ignorant is lack of knowledge as defined by websters. he can work his way out of that if he close to actually study something. so you know, what's interesting, julie pace is, in normal times, these are certainly abnormal times. if you told somebody that the president of their party had a 35, 36% approval rating, and the congress that they control had a 15, 16% approval rating, they would say a landslide of epic proportions was coming. and i don't know, i get the feeling that because they ran against the least popular

democratic nominee in the history of america in hillary clinton, they somehow think that that's what they're going to face in the future. is there an understanding on the hill that this republican party could be facing a political a armageddon. >> reporter: yes and no, the thing they lean on is this is legit democrats are not in any better shape now than they were in 2016. >> true that. >> reporter: so you have to put it in that context, democrats don't know what their message will be in 2018, certainly looking into 20 when the, it's unclear what the party will go and do. so republicans can hang their hat on that. it's not great, necessarily, but it is real. but this is where they are on taxes. they recognize that this plan that they rolled out yesterday is far from perfect. it is far from comprehensive and in the end it may ends up being

much narrower than what they laid out. they know they have to pass something. they are petrified of heading into the mid-terms with nothing to run on and that's where they are right now. with the two failures on health care, with no movement on infrastructure, they literally have nothing to go to voters and say, this is what we accomplished being in the majority. >> that is the main motivator on taxes right now. even if it ends up being something narrower, something that doesn't accomplish what they've said, are their actual goals on the tax overhaul, you just get the sense that republicans want to be able to vote for something, have a sign-in ceremony at the white house so they can run on that, pretty much that alone next year. >> they have lost their dig nit. >> dig nit /* /- dignity. >> they have the secretary of hhs. >> oh, right. >> that is just the beginning, my friends. . >> yeah. >> there are a lot of government

planes being used inappropriately. there's more. still ahead. >> the swamp. >> this is a mess. a hot mess. >> i've never seen more swamp-like behavior. it's important to remember george h.w. bush's chief of staff got fired and there was a national outrage because he drove a car from washington to new york and here you have tom price and you got the e guy prosecute, you got a -- pruitt around literally like they're on a zeppelin tour in 1971. i need to get me some scotch, in new york. year in toronto. let's take the jet. >> it's not friday, is it? >> no, it's thursday, can you believe that though? they're living like led zeppelin. there's never been a swamp like this, like donald trump's swamp is the swampiest swamp of all time. if you look at the cabinet

secretaries, and what they're doing, they are blowing through money -- >> they were counsellors to the president who were on modeling tours and i don't know what else. but there is so much going on there, that's so inappropriate. it's just, that's the bottom line. >> it's the biggest. we have never seen a swamp. >> i never seen anything like it. >> as murky as this and, you know, you know, physical out who they're flying around, the family? who are they flying around on private government jets? i mean look into that. look into all of this. again, i've never seen a more waste of taxpayer dollars by cabinet secretaries and people that work for the president of the united states. it's the swampiest behavior any of us have ever seen in recent american politics. >> and still ahead, we'll speak with the man in charge of bringing tax reform across the

finish line in the house, congressman kevin brady who chairs the ways and means committee, also with us, chairman of the house freedom caucus, congressman mark meadows joins the conversation. >> we will have an flish profenh professor say swampiest is a word. >> will florida get the hurricane relief it so desperately feeds, we will talk to the puerto rico governor ricardo. >> it was amazing the governor said yesterday the ports are full of all the relief items. they don't have the drivers and the trucks to deliver it. it's like one problem after another. and hopefully they'll start to head in the right direction. still, 97% of the island still doesn't have power. 40% of the island still doesn't have running water. now it's been 11 days since maria formed, no longer a hurricane. and it killed at least 34 people. >> that number is sure to go up once we find out exactly what has happened in puerto rico. and on top of that, you have to

remember, it destroyed a lot of st. croix and the pictures that you see coming out of dominique are incredible. that's where it was a category 5. >> that country will struck toll exist after what it did there. again now a tropical storm, heading off the east coast. how about this? this is the map of september. every day, we've been tracking at least one hurricane. many days we tracked three hurricanes. and lately, it's been two. lee and maria, finally we are getting a break. there is one area of interest, tropical waves south of cuba. this has a 40% chance of developing. none of oyou are computers say it will be a huge big deal. rain heading up to florida, almost a nor'easter type event for the beach himself. not a big blow, just a big rain maker. the good news in this forecast is what's happening, everyone, we are done with our rare, late september heat wave. now we are heading to a beautiful fall weather pattern. about time, right? you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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. they call to ramp up defense capabilities in the face of ongoing aggression from the north. >> it comes as south korean officials say they expect more provocation from pyongyang in october. joining us now the president on the council on foreign relations and author of "a world if disarray," richard haase. and former under secretary at the st. department now an msnbc contributedor ambassador wendy sherman. good to have you both. >> good to be here. >> okay. kind of disturbing times, go ahead. >> rich, where are we right now? what itself the latest? >> well, the latest is the u.s. policy is essentially to work with others through the u.n. and beyond to ratchet up sanctions between north korea in the hope it gets them to rethink their nuclear program. >> that's a policy? >> this last weekend the oil was

that significant? >> again the idea we have this conversation, but the idea that sanctions alone are going to be enough to persuade north korea in the err of its ways we say is extremely unlucky? >> what will be the way to deter them short of military force? >> they have made a decision they need a nuclear deterrent and missiles in order to preserve the safety and security of the country and this regime. >> what have you heard of the mindset inside the administration being? are they moving towards the possibility of military options and does that seem to be where this administration is going? >> i think it's being looked at. i think the idea of ratcheting up military pressure is one of the things they're looking at, everything from direct use to military force to embargoes, one is not because of calculation but the jockeying between the two sides, north korea shoots at

an italian bomber. we could stumble into an issue. what's really been missing in addition to the kind of all the military preps and the rest is the diplomatic dimension. eight months now have gone by. why has eight months, north korea has used that time to test missiles and nuclear weapons. why have we not tried to freeze where they are? why have we not said, here's what we are prepared to do, north korea. >> rich, you brought this up last week because the president the vice president, the secretary of state, we could go down the line, none of them, jared kushner the defacto secretary of state at times, none of them, have a day of foreign policy experience. >> exactly. none of them has been through a crisis. none of them has the back-ups. this dimension is almost missing more broadly with rex tillerson. in the case of north korea, china has sucked we freeze north korea's testing in exchange for a freeze in our military exercises.

if that's not acceptable, why don't we say, we'll adjust our excercises, agree to a peace treaty, let's put something out there, even if north koreans go for it and we can use their refusal to accept the reasonable deal. we can probably get greater international pressure on them and help a reluctant south korean president, we are diplomatically missing in action. >> given all that, ambassador sherman, how concerned are you that we may stumble into a situation given the president's rhetoric, which is almost child-like, and then all these deficits that richard just listed in the foreign policy sort of construct that this president should have put together? >> right. i think probably everybody at this table has had somebody in their family ask, are we going to be at war tomorrow? >> that's right. >> i think we could indeed get there by accidents, miscollateral calculation. i was thinking about this. at the bush administration, ten weeks in with the ep3 incident,

an intelligence aircraft shot down by a chinese fighter jet. the pilot of the chinese jet died. our 20-some crew members ended up on hunan island held by the chine chinese. it was an intelligence aircraft with all this information. can you imagine in this instance if one of our b1 bombers is flying over international airspace, a north korean plane, which are not good, accidentally brushes it. imagine what this president might do, he might tweet up a storm. george bush i might say handled it not badly, ended up of a letter of two sorrys. this is tough stuff. >> someone that just shouldn't be at the helm. >> well, your last segment was about what the american people think about the president. and you know his -- i understand how you want to go toe-to-toe with this brutal dictator kim

jong-un, but, quite frankly, when you do that he has no choice but to come back at you. he is considered a god in his country. north korea is nor like a cult than a country. and so he has to respond and so you get anise ka latetory cycle that's not in anybody's interest. i think all the people around the people have told him to cool out. that's sort of not possible for him to do. >> richard the chinese foreign minister said he was listening on to reserve the right of potential conflict. the chinese foreign minter said we have to do this through dialogue. do they have our interest at all in mind in helping to de-escalate this? >> the short answer to a point. china doesn't want to see north korea to be the venue of the war. they like the buffer state. to china it's a strategic dilemma. they want to put enough pressure

to moderate their views, not so much to bring it down. that's a real needle-threading exercise. i don't think at the end of the day china will do enough to deliver nmpblth i think they increasingly see north korea as a strategic liability, not an asset. that's an interesting change. i don't think they'll go to china policy will solve this. we have to create some space for u.s. north korean die lock. the rhetoric right now is squeezing out any room for either side to compromise, think about how kennedy managed the cuban missile crisis. this is not exactly a situation where we gave the soviets some room, each side could compromise. right now the two leaders are denying themselves the cushion you need in order to make a deal. >> what would your advice be to the secretary the state, to general mattis, to everybody, what itself the next move? >> i think the next move is dialogue but the secretary tillerson weeps indicating for the north koreans to behave to grab that die lock.

it's not going to happen. we have to put some incentives on the table. michael hasn't lon just suggested just say instead of having 20,000 troops exercise have 10,000 troops exercise, maybe we'll do it in australia or china. i don't know whether that's the answer. we need to put something on the table as ripped just suggested so we can get that dialogue going. it's not that dialogue may solve this problem. this is an incredibly tough problem for any administration, but the way they're going about trying to find this die lock, it's never going to happen. >> you have a president accepting out tweets about rocketman giving speeches what do you think the probability is he will authorize the people in his administration that know something about this to do what are you suggest something. >> i do believe he has authorized secretary tillerson to try to find an avenue for die lock. i just think the way they're going about it, they're not going to get there. because north korea is not going to behave long enough and the

rocketman tweets close out that space, as richard suggested. so they are doing in their own policy through the president's tweets. >> great. wendy sherman, thank you very much. richard stay with us. coming up, paul ryan is clearly a numbers guy. he's keeping count on capitol hill as in, how many bills the house has passed, only to stall in the senate. what the house speaker is saying about that straight ahead on "morning joe."

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witness katy perry... aaaaaaw look at that dog! katy perry: with music videos and behind the scenes footage, xfinity lets you witness all things me. it has been a bad week for donald trump, but he's not one to admit defeat. he even tried to claim they have the votes to beat obamacare. >> i just wanted to say though, on health care, we have the votes for health care. >> no you don't, but go on. >> we have one senator that's in the hospital. he can't vote, because he's in the hospital. i'm almost certain we have the vote, but with one man in the hospital, we cannot be sure we have them. >> he's in the hospital. what senator are you referring to? >> in other words, he can't come here and vote, he's in the hospital. >> who is in the hospital? he doesn't know who is in the hospital. so the senator whose name he couldn't come up with is thad

cochran of mississippi moments after that comment who tweeted, thanks for the well wishes. i'm not hospitalized. i'm recuperating in mississippi, i'm looking forward to comeing soon. there was no senator in the hospital. he didn't have the votes t. bill didn't pass, and you are bad at math. okay. >> isn't that something? >> it's amazing. >> poor thad. >> amazing to make that up. it wouldn't have mattered, if the imaginary senator in the hospital he still wouldn't have the votes. >> i am not a one trick pony. he's a loon. and he's in charge. it's scary. >> that is a figment of his imagination. he made that up. >> it's not okay. you don't blurt out complete lies right and left and think that this person is okay to be the leader of our country and republicans, are you so busy worried about yourself, you walk the plank for this eye. this is what you got. >> my god. >> why? >> like a true cronkite moment.

i never heard her talk like this. >> no, i'm serious. >> i never heard you talk like this before. >> this is not okay. >> how many people agree with mika that he's not fit to serve because she's saying that and -- >> not because i'm saying it. because are you looking at it. >> i think it's almost like you seeing those poll numbers have given you the courage to finally come out. >> no, i have been saying this -- >> you say that every day. >> i have been saying this since the campaign, but, certainly a few of you thought it was inappropriate. >> we put that up. >> just like when i thought obama was going to win. >> oh my god. >> go ahead. >> oh my god. >> is president trump fit to serve as president. >> what does that mean? richard, please, go. >> it's not about impeachment. it's not about a legal criteria, whether he has the character and the skillset in order to succeed as governing, i think what you are seeing there is a

significant number of americans saying he has neither the character nor the skillset to serve. >> what are americans basing their opinions on? i'm asking? >> i object. are you leading the witness. you are leading the witness. >> that conversation and tweet -- like literally -- blurts them out. it's like, oops, i got to delete. that that's our president. >> before you get to the question whether we should be asaysing mental competence and all those issues. >> nobody said anything about mental competence. >> obviously,le obviously, he doesn't understand any of the issues, he makes stuff up. he is the ultimate fake news. everything he says is untrue or half true or distorted. we can take judicial notice. >> he can't fill jobs, he has

cabinet members flying around on planes he doesn't seem to know about. >> coming up, president trump likes to talk about his big following on social media. but is now complaining that facebook is against him. we'll show you how mark zuckerberg is responding. some paranoia there coming up on "morning joe." how do we say that this fall,

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we're on schedule in the house. we passed the health care bill back in may. we passed the repeal and replace. we did case law and the military and veterans. we did current and technical education reforms. we did pro-life legislation. we passed 337 bills in the house as of this week. 274 of them are still in the senate. we haven't gotten them over the finish line in the senate. is that frustrating for the house? you bet it's frustrating for the house. >> paul ryan, he's a policy guy. and doesn't get out usually and

do pr, but that's exactly what he needs to do right now to protect his members there, to talk about all the things that they've passed. he's right. they've passed a lot of bills that obviously will be good for their members in their district. obviously the senate hasn't been able to do anything. >> the senate -- that's true. the senate is the graveyard where bills go to die. they passed a bunch of bills also knowing they're not going to get through the senate. they voted to repeal obamacare 60 times when it didn't matter and when it mattered they barely got it through after all the pushing and pulling. but he's right. the senate is dysfunctional. >> julie pace, final thoughts on the conversation so far this morning and what you're looking at today in washington? >> i think one thing that shouldn't get lost in the discussion coming out of alabama is the striking memo from steve law at mcconnell's superpac.

where he said the new boogie man is republican congressional leadership. that is striking to me, and the fact that law says it's president trump who is actually driving that message home for those voters just shows that this election of trump and the fact that republicans to go over the majority in congress didn't solve the party's internal problems. it magnified them. that puts this party in a tough position going forward. >> and we were shown a vote from bob corker which suggests tax reform may be just as difficult as passing health reform. >> absolutely. there's a reason the tax reform hasn't gotten done. it's difficult. the details are hard to sort through. there's so many competing interests. the main motivator for republicans is the fact they feel they have to be able to run on something in 2018. i think if this does pass, it's going to be because of the fear of losing in the midterms more

than anything that's in the package that they come up with. >> julie, thank you. >> coming up, after a failed health care effort, republicans in congress are trying to move onto tax reform, but they do so with a 15% approval rating. plus, it's been more than a week after hurricane maria and slow-moving aid from the u.s. is causing frustration in puerto rico. we'll talk to the island's governor about the recovery effort ahead on "morning joe." knowing where you stand has never been easier.

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democrats and republicans in congress should come together finally to deliver this giant win for the american people and begin middle class miracle. it's called a middle class mirac miracle, once again. it's also called a miracle for our great companies. a miracle for the middle class, for the working person. >> he can't vote because he's in the hospital. we have two other votes that are coming, and we will have them. i feel we have the votes. i'm almost certain we have the votes, but with one man in the hospital, we cannot display that we have them. >> this is crazy. this is crazy. no. it is. i'm sorry. >> i'll tell you what. we're going to sort through this. we have a special line into the

hospital, and with us there -- >> there's nobody in the hospital. he's at home. >> bill crystal is in the hospital. let's take the shot of bill, please. and josh earnest has come. >> he will be hospitalized. >> first responder. >> and he's -- >> mika has just discovered that things are crazy. >> no, i haven't. i'm tired of being desensitized. >> it's amazing one gets up each day and goes this is crazy. >> do you know what mika is doing here, actually --? >> it just ain't fittin'. >> she says the same thing every day, and you really, i think it's important not that you get desensitized to the fact that this man lies when telling the truth would be easier. i mean, he lies so much that --

and he just makes things up, bill crystal. >> i believe i've been saying this for a couple of years. i agree that normalizing it and rationalizing it is bad for the country. and there's a lot of rationalizing going on. and people focus a lot on the trump supporters, whatever percentage of the republican party that is, but actually it's the skeptical trump voters who were skeptical trump supporters. better off to have republicans. they're the ones doing more damage. he has his base. the people who know better need to say -- >> the people who were scalding him in december 15th, january, february, march, i'm talking about people like ted cruz that said this man was unfit for office, that this man was a liar. a guy that vilified his wife. a guy that trashed him

personally, and i'm not just picking on ted cruz. i'm pointing out the fact there were all these people who said this was the worst man ever. he was horrifying and there's no way he should ever be in office, and now they're like, you know he could help us get a tax cut through. >> it's true. republicans were making that case and democrats were persuaded that he wouldn't be good to lead the country. right now is this devil's bargain in congress too as the congressional leadership. paul ryan did the interview with sean hannity yesterday where he was working very hard to convince president trump's friend that he's all on board and agrees with everything donald trump has to do. >> the alabama victory has a real effect on that. >> mika's just beeping right now. >> that's enough. you have to explain it. ol alex gorsen said into our ears, that beeping sound is us backing

into the story. without people knowing. first, i believe this, and we say this too often, but i believe tuesday will be remembered as a key moment in the decline and fall of the republican party, because of everything it symbolizes. roy moore, a guy who didn't know what daca, a know-nothing republican, the same day that bob corker, one of the new people in washington that could talk to democrats from a southern state, saying enough. i've got to get out here. at the same time they can't pass health care reform. i think tuesday was a historic day. >> i tend to agree with that. but practically over the 12 months leaving aside hifrt, it has a huge effect. it means every state, in effect, is going to have a bitter primary between a new republican

and established republican. >> can we find another word other than establishment? >> normal. >> establishment republican is -- are the people that i knew in washington that would spend all their days on the golf course talking to lobbyists. now anybody who is intelligent and knows the issues and can actually work with the other side is called an establishment republican. >> luther strange was elected to alabama attorney general to feed the republican candidate. he's quite conservative. he loses 55-45 to roy moore. roy moore is more extreme than todd aiken. he's the most extreme senate party who might within a senate seat in a long time. he's a conservative guy. he was repeating the birther charge a month ago. it's bad for the republican party. they're going to try to hang

moore on rch'epublin's neck. what will it look like next year? state after state, not one or two or three challengers, but state after state. and what's most amazing is we're used to it happening a little bit with the party's outer power is unhappy. it's losing. go left or center? this is the party that controls both houses of congress and there's going to be a civil war between the president's forces and the fors of the majority leader, the speaker -- >> over the next year. we've never seen this. i agree that t historic in the sense that we've never seen this in our lifetime. >> steve bannon was giddy on the stage on tuesday. he was energized. he said this win in alabama will energi energize people. it already has. for me the question will be was that an alabama story on tuesday night? an isolated incident or is it a mississippi and tennessee story

and spraead across the country. >> it may be a mississippi and tennessee story. here's the problem. you're going to have people with rob portman in ohio. i promise you if he gets out and defends roy moore, he's going to see his numbers collapse in ohio. you have in pennsylvania, if republicans senator in pennsylvania gets out and does the same thing, you'll see his numbers fall. the same thing with johnson up in wisconsin. this is alabama. it's a state that trump did the best in. and we're now going to back into the story. i don't think it's a one-off, but donald trump has told close aides that he sees the pitched battle between the south in the midwest versus the elites on the coasts, and i think that's what we're going to see. we've got in washington chief white house correspondent for the new york types peter baker. and also political reporter for

the washington post and moderator of washington week on pbs, bob costa. bob -- >> willie, what was the president talking about when he said there was somebody in the hospital and, therefore, that vote could not be -- >> this is backing into the story? >> yeah, that beep, beep. really. there was two problems. >> when -- >> at the top of the show we came in and the president said the reason health care didn't get through the senate is because there was a senator who couldn't vote because he was in the hospital. there was no senator in the hospital. he was referring to thaad cochran what was not in the hospital. he tweeted thank you for the well wishes. i am not hospitalized. even if there was a senator two didn't vote on health care in the hospital, he still would not have had the votes to get it through. a double lie in that case. >> bob costa, what have you heard on capitol hill about what

alabama means? >> if you think about senator cochran, he's indicative of what a lot of these veteran senators are feeling. he's a little perplexed at how the president handled his own health conditions. and a lot of people are looking at senator cochran and wicker, and they say republicans being vulnerable next year, and you've been right so far in your conversation. there's anxiety to the point where a lot of republicans i'm talking to in the h and the senate are now considering retirement, at least privately at the moment. because they do not want to face the storm on both the right with the trump style republicans and on the left because they keep having these town hall meetings where they're getting hammered on health care. >> coming up, the alabama story. "the new york times" peter baker obtained a memo about the alabama election that circulated among republican donors written by the president of the mcconnell linked leadership fund

superpac. it said primary voters were. saying the republican congress has replaced -- this narrative is driven by trump himself, and it resonates with primary voters who believe the republican congress isn't doing enough as we frequently have heard in focus groups to advance the president's agenda. law went onto say the party should expect to fight hard right primary candidates in states like mississippi and nevada. and he criticized steve bannon who backed more in the alabama race for being focussed mainly on, quote, promoting his own brand. peter baker, the alabama story -- it seems we might be seeing more of this. explain why. >> i think that's exactly right. no you have a party that's in rupture right now. you have a party that is dominated by this extraordinary figure in the white house. who basically engineered a

hostile takeover last year and is still in the phase of converting it to his style of republicanism, and it's been resisted by a party that doesn't see him as the future. so the only really good thing for the republicans and the democrats are divided. it's not being paid enough attention to because the republican rupture i s dramatic and out front. how this plays out next year, it's an open question, obviously. will some of the candidates like roy moore succeed in places other than alabama. alabama is not the most representative state in the world, but you've certainly got a lot of republicans as bob said, worried and thinking about their own future right now. >> richard? >> none of this is is a prize. this was in the inaugural address. this is a radical populist presidency. there's two questions. why is the republican, establishment in congress and

beyond been so supine even though this president has gone after them since day one, and at what point do people say i can't pursue the body of views i came into politics to pursue given where donald trump is now pushing the republican party and the primary voter who is are coming out. at what point does this become something of not just a disruption but a historical shift? >> absolutely. >> i think that's the real question. >> as bill said, the republican party is now getting behind a guy who was pushing the birther conspiracy a couple of weeks ago. >> and there's more. >> they are going to fund with their money, with republican money, and republican donors are going to get behind that. there are other just heinous conspiracy theories that this guy has pushed in the past, and heinous views, and on top of that, he didn't even know what daca was. >> he didn't know what daca was. >> in the middle of a raging

debate about whether he would win his race because the president of the united states compromised a daca. >> oh, my god. >> it is extraordinary. the other bad news for republicans is if they do succeed in their efforts to elect roy moore to the senate, he will do more damage there than he did as a candidate. do they really want him as a colleague? is that the guy they want sitting in the committee hearing? absolutely not. the other question that will be forced here is senator strange did do everything that you're supposed to do to protect his right flank and republican primary by supporting president trump to the hilt. what message does that send to other republicans in the senate who look at his experience and say -- is there a path for me by just supporting donald trump? i don't know that there is. >> you just touched on it. and actually, i've been saying it, bill crystal. the thing that voters like the most is independence, even coming from the hard right,

saying you know what? i know the president's my party. he's out of his mind on that issue. t not good for the country. it's not good for you. and i'm not going to vote for it. if you don't like it, vote for somebody else. people love that. >> but you need to be independent of your own leadership in congress as well. it's less popular than donald trump. if you look like a rubber stamp for the leaders then you know -- what's the point? i'm defending -- >> roy moore teaches them that being an independent agent actually cares. now, forget -- >> i agree with josh. in the real world what will probably teach them is to bend over a little more backwards to accommodate donald trump. you look like a semi trump apologist and a sort of party loyalist. you're loyal to a party leadership that's unpopular in congress. bending over backwards to try to support a president who you can't ever support enough.

>> to say nothing of the fact that you're not accomplishing what you say you want to. >> the fact they're governing. it's one thing for a minority party out of power to have a lot of fights. the party has control of the federal government. i think the consequences of the civil war in a party that has control of the presidency in congress, we don't know what they are. >> we're seeing in britain with the tourist. the governoring partiing partie know what they stand for. >> where does it go now? do they think the southing balm is tax reform? the middle class miracle, is it going to save the republican party from the infighting? >> that's what you'll hear at news conferences from republicans, but that's not what they're telling reporters on capitol hill. they're not sure tax reform can save them. that the agenda can save then.

they see bannon on a stage in alabama wearing the heavy military style jacket talking of revolution. they listen to judge moore talk about grievance against the culture and they wonder if policy can ever be their savior in 2018. do they have to adopt the style, the grievance that's so much swirling through the republican base in order to survive? >> bob, do you know a senator on capitol hill, republican senator, or house member, that is independent, that is not afraid to take on trump, and does it with a little bit of grievance? is there somebody that stands out to you that seems fearless on the hill that is going to win the reelection in '18? >> there's not that particular kind of senator. you see someone like senator purdue and cotton. they're trump allies. they've adopted some of trump's populism. those who have broken from the

president at different times like senator flake and corker, they are much more genteel in their presentation, and that hasn't resonated with the base. no one has found that perfect formula. >> and senator corker is leaving. peter baker, reading your new york times front page piece in the times today. i'm struck by how in the race in the potential upcoming races in places like mississippi, there's not a lot of conversation about the opposition being democrats. president obama is gone. they don't have him to kick around. it's about mitch mcconnell. in fact, chris mcdaniel he's accusing mr. wicker of being mitch mcconnell's yes man. what are the implications of people like roy moore potentially chris mcdaniel arriving in the senate led by the very people they've been attacking for a couple years. >> this is the next phase. when ted cruz came into the senate and some of his allies

had began to disrupt mitch mcconnell's leadership. they forced a government shutdown during president obama's second term against the desires of the leadership. and now you can see the next generation of even more rebellious faction coming into power, making things even more complicated for mitch mcconnell. he has 52 votes and a senate that requires 60 on many pieces of legislation. that's no room for error there. if you lose a roy moore on the right and lose others, there's not a governing coalition. you don't really have a majority part right now in the senate. >> actually, mika answered my question. other than john mccain. ben sass. >> ben sass. >> ben sass is tough and speaks his mind and doesn't care whether donald trump likes it or not. >> rand paul. >> rand paul, same way. and again, there's a toughness there. with mccain, rand paul, with ben sass. they're free agents.

there's toughness and good luck for somebody taking on ben sass saying you're too genteel, too much of a wimp. same thing with rand paul. there is a way to be tough and push back against the extremes of donald trump. >> we don't know what would happen in a nebraska primary against ben sass in 2020. maybe he would lose. at some point you have to say at some point you have to say the right thing. >> all right. thank you. >> i have to ask bob costa, willie and i are ready. did we get the cartons? >> yes. chesterfields. >> we're going to the holiday in and watching your show tomorrow night. what do you have on? >> we have to decide which topics we're going to discuss. we're going to discuss health care and tax reform. can the republicans get anything done, and if i had it my way, i'd have peter baker on every week. >> there you go, very nice. >> i met bob's father the other

day, i now know where he gets it from. it's a great family. >> awe. adorable. >> this is the swamp. >> of course. >> this is the back scratching swamp. >> it has been for years. you're just figuring that out now? i'll tell you -- bob costa, smooth. >> still ahead. what do we have? >> we'll hear from two influential voices on tax reform. the congressman mark meadows. first congressman kevin brady joins the conversation. my dad's.

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joining us from capitol hill is a man who will be tasked with bringing tax reform across the finish line in the house. congressman kevin brady of texas. he's deputy whip and chairman of the ways and means committee.

good to have you on the show this morning. >> thank you for having me. >> the president calls his tax plan a middle class miracle. tell us how it is that. >> for families it's really important. first, we flatten out the brackets and lower the rates for every american. so they can keep more of what they earn. really importantly, we protect more the first dollars that families earn. that's really -- we double the standard deduction. really help. for young families starting out. middle class families pinching every penny and retired people as well. and of course, growing jobs in local community in a major way is how you help every paycheck get bigger. that's important for families>> how exactly? what are the middle class seeing? >> lower tax rates. they can keep more of their money by doubling the standard deduction. we protect more of their dollars from being taxed at all. and as you know, we take the 10%

bracket and make it zero so incredibly important for modest earning families as well. >> that seems different from what you said earlier when i asked you, steve rattner, how the middle class fair in this. you said they got basically nothing. >> the committee for responsible federal budget came out yesterday. they're a nonpartisan group. they found for individuals as a whole, there was actually a tax increase based on what we know so far of about $300 billion over the next ten years. >> yeah. they're wrong. if i could, steve. look, they're not really looking at both the drkts which have yet to be filled in, haven't figured in the doubling to the standard deduction. no objective analysis of this does anything but recognize lower taxes for every income level which is exactly why we're doing this tax reform. >> i don't want to get too

deeply into the weeds, but when you double the standard deduction, you also eliminate the exemptions people get to take for dependents. for people, particularly larger families the doubling of the standard deduction doesn't help at all. but let me ask you about -- >> that isn't true, because we increased the child tax credit, so your example, families with kids actually save more money than they do today. >> let me ask you about a second piece of the analysis which is the debt. that essentially this becomes a $5.8 gross tax cut and probably about a 2 $.2 trillion net tax cut. it would take our debt to a greater share of our economy, greater than 100% share for the first time since world war ii. how do you respond? >> again, not right. these are significant tax cuts for our local small businesses, for middle class families to get this economy going, because we know what we have for a tax code now isn't working.

but what isn't being analyzed is that one, we get strong economic growth as we did with president kennedy and president reagan working with democrats on tax reform. but also we are just as we're proposing this simplier fair system, we're proposing to eliminate a lot of special interest and deductions and lop holes so we can lower the tax rates for everyone. we want tax reform to move us through a balanced budget. >> other tax cuts have not produced tax cuts. president bush's tax cuts didn't. a lot of economists think that stimulating the economy when we have relatively low unemployment doesn't produce growth. it potentially produces inflation, and the senate decided they want to limit the size of these tax cuts to 1.5 trillion. the house wants them to be deficit neutral. you still have a lot of work to

do to fit it into the frameworks? >> huge word, we have more work to do. i'm proud of the fact that this is historical. there's a white house and a house and senate coming together, delivering tax reform to the american people. what we know isn't working. we're struggling in this 2% economic growth as far as the economists can see. that will not work. we're still having jobs moving overseas not just jobs. research, head quarters, manufacturing. so by becoming competitive again, by simplifying and making the tax code fair, by growing paychecks, which americans haven't seen in an awful long time, maybe that's why almost nine out of ten americans want congress to act on tax reform, and most want their lawmaker to work with president trump to get it done. >> all right. kevin brady, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up in the wake of hurricane maria, puerto rico's governor is asking the white

house to temporarily wave the jones act, the 1920 law prohibits tankers from hauling crude oil from u.s. ports unless the vessels are american made. some lawmakers are saying it's worsening the recovery efforts in puerto rico. we'll talk to the island's governor next on "morning joe." knowing where you stand has never been easier. except when it comes to retirement. at fidelity, you get a retirement score in just 60 seconds. and we'll help you make decisions for your plan... to keep you on track. it's your retirement. know where you stand. to keep you on track. just like the people every business is different. but every one of those businesses will need legal help as they age and grow. whether it be with customer contracts, agreements to lease a space or protecting your work.

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to call what's happening in puerto rico a huemmanitarian crisis is an understatement. the level of december separation is getting there. she's lucky she lives in the greater metropolitan area. it might be easier to get support. i think of everybody else who doesn't have that. the sense of not having -- i came home and i'm like i can take a shower and there's water available to me. things we take for granted. our house was somewhat compromised. she doesn't feel safe being there right now, and we have to figure that out. and she's staying with some friends who happen to live in an 11 story building. nobody has electricity. it's challenging. >> that was the new york city

council speaker yesterday speaking about her mother who is in puerto rico for what's being called a humanitarian crisis that's happening right now in the wake of hurricane maria. joining us right now the puerto rico's governor. governor rossello, thank you for being us. right now, a status report on where you are. how much available drink water is there? what do you need right now? >> well, we have 34 out of the 69 hospitals up and running. we have a logistical strategy to get diesel. the whole power grid went down in puerto rico. we're having to do our turns. we have about 4 million liters of water that have been hoisted into puerto rico. we expect about 7.6 more to be coming in. really, our biggest challenge has been the logistical assets to try to get some of the food and some of the water to

different areas of puerto rico. i can say that we've been working with fema closely so we can deploy those missions and between yesterday and today, we impacted at least 50 municipalities to get them food and water and tried to work with the diesel and fuel description. >> we're eight days now since maria made land fall. there are remote areas of puerto rico and others that aren't remote that haven't been able to get relief. what have you heard from the outlying areas and what do you need to get the logistics moving? we saw videos of san juan, trucks sitting full that can't get to where they need to go, full of relief supplies. >> right. well, we need truck drivers. similar to everybody in puerto rico, a lot of truck drivers got disconnected. we're working with a lower level of human resource on that front. it's getting bigger. we've been able to make calls by radio so that truck drivers can check in. it's increasing. we're working on the efficiency.

we've also asked the dod to send some special troops specifically for transportation, fuel deployment, food deployment, medical help, engineering, and so forth. so it is increasing, and let me say we've been flying all across the island, identifying those remote areas that you talk about, making sure we have rescue missions. we've rescued over 5500 people in the past eight days. so there is an ongoing effort. food is being delivered and water. it has been a tough task, and we want to get better at it. but certainly the food is here. the water is here. we welcome more help, but critically what we need is equipment, human resource, whether it be national guard, state guard. and as in the case with the president, governors have been phenomenal in responding to puerto rico. recognizing that this has been a disaster like no other in our island. two back to back hurricanes, cat

4, cat 5, passing through puerto rico, and a power grid completely lost. telecommunications lost and the final component that puerto rico different to florida or texas really has no neighboring states that they can actually drive to there and give quick aid. we need to pfly assets here and bring them by boat. that's been the bottle neck. >> governor, what would you say to your fellow americans that are watching you this morning? what can they do that would help you and the people that you represent on the island the most? >> well, first of all, joe, recognize that we are american citizens and that we are proud american citizens. puerto ricans have been serving the armed forces at a higher per capita rate than almost any state in the nation for the past 50 years. as recent as when harvey hit

texas, we sent rescue teams over to texas. when irma hit the islands, puerto rico became the support base, and we supported the shelter of about 4,000 u.s. citizens that didn't have food, a place to stay. we rescued them, got them over here to puerto rico, and established a path forward to their original destination, so we're very proud, and what we are seeing right now is the biggest event of devastation in the modern history of puerto rico. it's a perfect storm, if you will. the grid is completely out. obviously a lot of things depend on energy. radio is mostly down in the area. we have an island so assets are harder to bring by. the air traffic is clogged. so the band width of airplanes is lower. we need all hands own deck. we make that plea. let me state i recognize this is a complex situation, and what we want to everybody to be helping.

i can say that the president has been very diligent. he has been essentially talking to us every day and the white house as well. governors and senators have pledged their support. governor cuomo today just sent his first contingency of state troopers, national guard, governor christie who just called me, that he had his contingency ready, and we have about other 13 states collaborating as well. >> that's great. >> our petition right now is to help with the assets we need in the short term, but also to make sure that in the aid package, puerto rico is considered equally. that we get the funding necessary to rebuild, that we get the flexibility because of puerto rico's fiscal situation. we're going to need money to operate government and the emergency that we quite frankly don't have in the box. and that we get 100% waiver. the president signed a 100% waiver for six months. this is going to be a long rebuilding process. >> governor, puerto rico's

governor, ricardo rossello, thank you. it's the beautiful island. these are our puerto rican brothers and sisters, american citizens. we'll take care of them and treat them as such. governor, thank you so much. >> thank you and god bless. let's bring in jeremy peters. before he joined "the times," he was a reporter in the virgin islands. he just returned from there. jer m jeremy, what did you see when you were down there? >> if you think about puerto rico in this very difficult place and that relief supply chain to reach. the virgin islands is at the end of the chain. they were relying on ports from puerto rico to bring them supplies and doctors to get back on their feet. then you have this one, two gut

punch of irma followed by maria, and what irma didn't destroy, maria essentially drowned. and it's really difficult to overstate just how broken people felt after the second storm. and the shock is still really rippling through. it's not just the physical devastation, which, as you can see, is tremendous. it's the emotional toll it's taken on people. someone told me, for example, when the wind employees at night and the shudders on his house shake, he still gets frightens because it was so traumatic having to go through the two monster storms. >> just looking at some astounding video jeremy shot himself on his reporting trip down there. what does the immediate future look like there, jeremy? obviously the island is dependent on tourism. they're a long way from having tourists come back. what's their primary concern right now?

>> well, the tourism issue is not just a matter of locals having jobs or tourists like us having a place to stay. it's a huge revenue driver for the territory, and they need that tax revenue. they need to be able to pay their employees, the government workers which is the government is the largest employer on that island. when i spoke with the governor on monday afternoon, he said he would be able to make his payroll this week, but after that, he could offer no assurances. so you look at puerto rico's debt crisis, which i think a lot of americans are already familiar with and they suffered you should a staggering debt. the virgin islands debt is actually much greater on a per capita basis, and the wall street banks think there is now a very strong likelihood that the virgin islands will default and need some type of bankruptcy protection. >> wow.

jeremy peters just down in the u.s. virgin islands reporting from there. >> thank you. are house conservatives willing to add to the deficit if it means passing tax reform? we'll have mark meadows next on "morning joe." ♪ can i get some help. watch his head. ♪

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our framework includes our explicit commitment that tax reform will protect low income and middle income house hold, not the wealthy, and well connected. they can call me all they want. it's not going to help. i'm doing the right thing, and it's not good for me, believe me. >> with us now from capitol hill, chairman of the house freedom caucus, mark meadows. congressman, great to have you with us. we're just trying to clarify one thing here. the top rate right now for individual earners is 39%. does that stay at 39% or drop to 35%? >> joe, we discussed that very

thing yesterday. i think there's a real push by the administration to keep that top rate where it is. and not bring it down. i know in the framework it talked about 35%. i think those decisions will probably be made in the coming days as we look at that top bracket. >> just for people who don't know the history of it. it was at 35%. barack obama got it pushed up to 39%. >> that's correct. >> the 39% is the obama tax rate you guys are trying to figure out what to do with? >> and joe, as you know, you've been here on capitol hill. you know how it goes back and forth, the negotiations continue. but i can tell you without sharing anything in terms of personal conversations with the president, i did witness on this very thing, he is very firm about making sure that the rich don't get a break at the expense of the hardworking american

taxpayer. as we look at the top tax wra bracket, we'll address it and it could stay in place. >> let's move onto i would say very good, but for the fact i live in connecticut and pay 55% tax rate. >> hold on. this is breaking news. this is joe saying we need to give a break for the 1%? >> i'm not saying that at all. i'm just saying, i pay 55%. totally fine with that. >> i think it needs to come down for everybody. agr agree. >> i'm sure there are a lot of people who j probably small business owners who can't afford to pay that 55%. >> well said. >> there are two things that, obviously, as conservatives, and that at least i've always been concerned about, and i'm sure you're concerned about. there's always a balance. we want to lower the tax rate as much as possible, but people keep as much of their money that

they earned as possible. but on the other side of that, always has to be a concern about the deficit. and the national debt that's gone from 4 trillion under clinton to 11 trillion under bush to 20 trillion under obama. now it looks like it will be 30, 35 trillion under donald trump. how do you cut taxes without blowing a hole in the deficit? >> obviously that's the discussion of the day. what are we going to do? >> it comes down to the question about the deficit. one of the principles that many of the conservatives espouse to is as you lower that rate, what you get is actually greater economic growth, and that gpd will make up for much of the deficit. you may get a deficit in the short run, but you can make a compelling case that over the next 15 years if we're aggressive and bold on reducing these tax rates not only for

individuals but for small businesses and corporations, that what you can do as long as you don't grow the government along it. out of this deficit or. 1.8. 3% or better. i believe that that's what the president's plan is all about. and we are certainly embracing it wholeheartedly, as you know. we took an official position yesterday to support the budget to start this process in earnest. >> congressman meadowmeadows, t other balance is between trying to g ts done quickly, and incen

republicans to demonstrate some progressthon issue. on the other hand, there's also a commitment to running an open process, a formal process where you could bill some bipartisan support. how do you strike that balance appropriately and what is a fair timeline -- what do you think is the ideal timeline for striking that balance. >> josh, it's good to see you on that side of the desk instead of on this side but as we look at that, that balance is hopefully been taking place over the nine months in terms of trying to work and get some input but in terms of the bipartisan side of that, i think what you'll see in the ways and means committee on the house side over the month of october is some real back and forth. there already have been discussions i know between the administration and key senators and house members on the democratic side to try to put it together but we don't have much time. the american people as you know are fed up with excuses. they want us to actually deliver and put something on the

president's desk and tax cuts is something that doesn't have a d or an r behind it and unaffiliated voters like it just as well when you put more of their money back in their pocket. we've got to do it. we have a time line of hopefully having something on the president's desk by thanksgiving but certainly no later than the end of the year. >> it's willie geist. there was a race in alabama settled on tuesday night. i'm curious to know if you think that roy moore should he win the general election would be a good addition to the congress? >> i think the alabama voter is the one who decides that. obviously we had a personal choice in that bringing forth judge roy moore but that was more an indication of the frustration that i wastalking a there's a frustration of said, get something done and so that overwhelming victory for judge roy moore was more a pushback against mitch mcconnell and the

fact that they failed on a number of campaign promises to deliver something to the president's desk and so as we look at that he'll make a good senator. i do believe that he'll win in december and ultimately the people of alabama will have a voice here on capitol hill. we need to turn capitol hill back to its rightful owner and that's we, the people, and sadly so many times members of the house and senate forget that. >> you say he'll be a good senator, are you comfortable with some of the views he's espoused as recently on the campaign trail about president obama's birthplace, his views on muslim and homosexuality? >> there's a lot of things that get said about different candidates. i have to worry hard enough about what i said versus anybody else saying it. when we look at a litmus test for religious liberty test or relevant just test for anything i'm not in favor of that. we differ on some of our views on some of those key elements.

really the people of alabama want to make sure that there is someone in the senate that represents their view and willing to -- judge roy moore is one of those willing to do that, he's shown that over and over. >> you're happy to have him in the senate? >> yes, willie. >> i want to finish where i began with you, so like i said i'm a lucky guy. if i d't want to pay 55% in taxes, i can -- i can move to florida, i can do the show from florida, i can do whatever. >> it wouldn't be the same, joe. come on now. >> it would be a lot warmer and cheaper because i'd be paying 35% or 39% taxes. but there are a lot of people that are stuck in states like connecticut, illinois, new york state, california. >> new jersey. >> that are small business owners that work their tails off and they literally have to work

for over half the year to pay back the government on all levels for, you know, taxes, fees -- you add it all up. >> right, right. >> how does this bill help small business owners in those blue states because all we've heard is bad news, which is they're not going to be able to deduct their state income taxes. so these small business owners unlike me just can't up and hof. they're stuck there with their business. how does this bill help bring down their tax bill? >> well, joe, i'm glad you asked because i was a small business guy before i got here and we have been my optically focused for what we do for just those people. part of this framework that was rolled out yesterday had two key components. it made sure that we lowered from that 39.5% rate for the small business owner down to no greater than 25%. so a huge tax deduction.

the other part of that is we got rid of the alternative minimum tax. and you know what that is but it basically says you always have to pay the higher tax. so those two things alone will tu -- should be unbelievably good news for the small business guy whether they're in connecticut or whether they're in north carolina or in california or in between. >> all right, congressman mark meadows enthusiagreatly appreci >> connecticut could actually help matters by being more fiscally responsible. that ain't happening. josh, thank you so much for being with us. >> good to see you. i enjoyed it. >> ahead this morning, president trump insists a u.s. senator is hospitalized. willie and i are very concerned. we immediately go out and buy and edible floral arrangement and found out it was all for naught but that senator tweeted -- i'm actually not in the hospital. we'll talk about that and much more ahead on "morning joe."

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yesterday republicans rolled out their tax proposal but will it fair any better than their plan to repeal obamacare? and how will a 15% party approval rating help? we've got the new numbers this morning and more than a week after hurricane maria and slow moving aid from the u.s. causing frustration to say the least in puerto rico. officials acknowledge they're having trouble getting supplies where they need to go. good morning, it is thursday, september 28th. welcome to "morning joe." with us we have former treasury official and "morninjoe" economic official steve ratner and julia pace is with us as well along with willie, joe and me. so this new national poll shows a majority of voter hold doubt about president trump's ability to serve in office. asked in a poll whether donald trump is quote, fit to serve as president, a majority 56% say

no. 42% say he is. this as his job approval ticked up one point from august now at 36% to approve, 57 disapprove. on the issues. americans have slightly favorable views of his handling of the economy and terrorism with approval at 48 and 47% for each issue but about six in ten americans disapprove of his job proflz of his other major issues. 35 34% approve on environment and health care. >> but the president is far ahead of republicans in congress. just 15% of voters approve of their job performance in the university poll. that is down ten points since june. >> stop right there for a second. willie, 15%, let's keep that up, 15% approval rating is obviously horrific. the fact that they have lost ten

points just in a month, i don't know that i've seen congress approval ratings move quite like that and to go from 25 to 15% shows just what a terrible position these republicans in congress find themselves in. >> we saw it in alabama two nights ago. that was a state that loves donald trump that voted against the and the he endorsed becse they so despise mitch mcconll. that number 15% is around where it's been historically for congress but it's going down and that's the mood of the country right now. that people are feeling like washington is the source of the problem, people who like donald trump, they don't even believe he's the problem necessarily, they believe it's mitch mcconnell and other republicans who have not put up a wall, you have not goten repeal and replace of obamacare done. they're not doing anything and it's reflected in the polls.

>> jim martin, steve ratner talked about how republicans in congress have now replaced barack obama as the great evil, the great political evil to rail against, so it's always got to be somebody and, you know, it was barack obama or nancy pelosi, now it's mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. >> for good reason, they haven't gotten anything done. the president's been in office for almost a year. they're fighting within the republican party. they have been there before. we've seen congressional reporting ratings in the low teens and later in the obama term when they were also not getting anything done so the public seems to have pretty good antenna for when congress is doing something and when they're not. >> the republican party is still coming to grips with tuesday's results in alabama where roy moore, a fire brand on the party's fringes easily won the u.s. senate primary after being

heavily outspent by the allies of the president and mitch mcconnell. "the new york times" obtained a memo written by steven law, president of the mcconnell linked senate leadership fund superpac which said primary voters were intensely angry and inclined to blame republicans for dysfunction in washington. quote, the republican congress has replaced president obama as the boogie man for conservative gop primary voters. this narrative is driven b trump himself and it resonates with primary voters who believe the republican congress isn't doing enough to advance the president's agenda. law went on to say that should expect to fight hard right primary -- to fight hard right primary candidates in states like mississippi and nevada and he criticized steve bannon who backed moore in the alabama race for being focused mainly on promoting his own brand.

yesterday president trump said he spoke with roy moore and also comment on mitch mcconnell role in the senate primary. >> roy, ran a really great race and i know what they did with mitch and they used him very much in the campaign, but he works hard and i'm sure things will work out. >> what about mr. mcconnell? is he in trouble? >> you'll have to ask senators about that. >> i do have confidence in him, yes. i do have confidence. >> but it's really not up to me it's up to the senate, but i do have confidence in him. i will say they used him in the race and i was very honored by the way i was treated in the race but they used him in the race. >> if roy moore is elected to the senate, one of the big issues surrounds immigration and daca. in a local alabama radio interview back in july moore appeared to have no oconcept of the prap.

>> would you support into the d.r.e.a.m.er program that president trump still has continued to push? >> pardon? the d.r.e.a.m.er program? >> yes, sir, daca. you're not aware of what d.r.e.a.m.ers are? >> no. >> d.r.e.a.m.ers -- this is a big issue in the immigration debate, d.r.e.a.m.ers - >> why don't you tell me what it is and quit beating around and telle what it is? >> i'm in the process of doing that judge moore. >> it certainly does bring to mind the saying i'm tired of the debates about whether the republican party is going to be the conservative party or the liberal party, i'm just tired of us being the stupid party, and, you know, you can elect all the people you want to washington, d.c. carrying torches but you have a president who wants to reorder 1/6th of the economy, doesn't know any of the details, none of the details that he

doesn't hear on cable news about the actual bills that would do that and here julie pace you've got a guy that wants to get elected to the united states senate doesn't even know what daca is or the d.r.e.a.m.ers are which means he is so isolated from any news, from any knowledge of the debate in washington, d.c. that you even wonder why he's applying for the job? this would be like somebody that decided to be a judge that didn't even know we didn't have a religious freedommendment in our constitution in the first amendment. >> it's just one of many reason -- >> oh, wait. he doesn't know that either. >> it's one of many reasons why republicans on capitol hill are really nervous about the

prospect of roy moore being in the senate. on the one hand he doesn't seem to have much of a background, much knowledge of the actual issues that he would be working on here. daca is something -- this election's in december, daca is something that is going to be coming down pretty quickly based on what trump and the democrats have been talking about so that would be on his plate right away and then of course the other piece of it is what he focuses on tends to be issues that are really outside the mainstream for the republican party. he is so far right on so many social issues and republicans know that if he's up here in the capital it's going to be roy moore's comments day after day that they are going to be asked about, trump tweets and roy moore controversies and that's a really unappealing situation for republicans as they look to 2018 and those midterm elections. >> what i'm talking about here, steve, doesn't even go to any of his positions on anything, any

of his deeply offensive statements on anything. i'm just talking in general about his complete ignorance of the job he's about to take on. it's the same thing when you talk about donald trump and his complete ignorance of any policy, ignorance defined as lack of knowledge. and donald trump has never had any idea. all of his staff members say, he never had any idea what was inside those health care bills. he just wanted to really neat signing ceremony. >> this is not an attack, this is a reality. >> it's the same thing because i can hear people i can hear people saying you just don't like him because he's a christian and social conservative, no i'm really good, most of my friends that i grew up with, christians, and are socially conservative. also i'm not voting for any of

them if they're completely ignorant as to the job they're about to take on and this is -- this stupidity, this ignorance is what is infecting the republican party even more than a lot of the radical ideology cause they don't know what they're doing. >> they don't and it reflects a strain in america today where people are reaching out and willing to vote for people out of the box in addition to what you said, this is a guy that was removed twice from the alabama supreme court who clearly has some screws loose. there's another piece to this too, this is going to complicate matter for mitch mcconnell. he put millions of dollars into luther strange's campaign and now he's got a guy in his caucus whose hardly beholden to him as he tries to assemble 50 votes. it makes his problem worse. >> to your point, you have to wonder and we'll watch this again in 2018 because i think it was the case can bt as well, at

what cost are voters willing to send a message to washington that we don't like you guys. you're willing to take donald trump and all his faults and all his distasteful beliefs, you're willing to take roy moore and all his abhorrent things he said about gay people, about muslims and other and his fundamental lack of understanding about an issue in daca that we had a national debate about for a month, at least a month -- >> what's so funny is a lot of people said roy moore might win because donald trump is caving on daca, right? he's in the middle of that and he still doesn't know. what's he doing polishing his little pistol? what's he doing? wave that thing around on stage? come on, man. >> so we're -- i will be very interesting to see what happens in mississippi, tennessee and other states like that where there will be primary challenges or an open seat in bob corker's case. you mentioned mitch mcconnell having trouble with this.

politico showed how a number of republican lawmakers did their best to avoid commenting on roy moore and his history of controversial remarks and believes. i want to make sure we hold the seat, i want to make sure he wins in alabama. to me there's no place for racism, i want to see the comments. senator dean heller, who won? i wasn't paying attention i'm just worried about taxes. portman of ohio, he's going to be for tax reform. i think. i don't know. i don't know him. senator tim scott of south carolina, i'm not going to comment about anything i haven't read about. i literally have not followed that race. but arizona jeff flake said, quote, i know his history and obviously not enamored with his politics because that's not the future of the republican party. that is for sure. >> someone took a stand there at the end. how hard is this? >> you can see this coming a mile away, roy moore is going to say outrageous things in the campaign trail and republicans are going to have to answer to

it and the reason they're going to have to answer to it is not because the media is liberal because the republican establishment is going to be funneling money into that race. they are going to be putting their name and their endorsement on a candidate who is wildly out of the mainstream and actually doesn't even know the basics about policy. >> absolutely. you saw that pivot happen not with those lawmakers that were quoted there but with mcconnell. he was talking to roy moore yesterday, trump obviously talked to moore and you're going to see the party apparatus shift behind moore in part because democrats look at this race and say, hey, alabama is always going to be a long shot for democrats, they don't expect to actually win there but they sure would like to make republicans over the next couple of months defend roy moore, put money into that state, put ads up defending him. if they can get republicans looking like they are behind

this candidate, that's so many of these republican lawmakers wish they didn't have to be, that's as much a victory for decrats as perhaps taking that seat. >> still aad on "morning joe," new reporting says white house sersadvire calling for secretary tom price to be fired over his use of private planes as they too use private planes possibly and president trump isn't ruling it out. we'll go live to the white house for the latest. but first here's bill carins with a check on the forecast. >> a little bit of good news coming out of puerto rico. peter alexander is reporting that president trump has authorized the waiving of the jones act for puerto rico effective immediately at the request of the governor who we just had on our air and what that does it frees up the ports from not just the u.s. but ports from anywhere in the word. so that's a little piece of good news. also about maria, still in the island of puerto rico, still haven't really done much improvement with the power or water.

about 97% of the island does not have running power or 40% running water. so -- those numbers are not increasing fast enough and we heard the governor say they need a lot more help and they need help getting delivers so people have enough food and water just to survive. that's the point we're at. so as far as maria goes, it is no longer a hurricane. it lasted 12 days as a hurricane, devastated three he islands, at least 34 deaths we know of and that number will be on the way up. here's the map of september, what a month it was for hurricanes. we started with irma throughout the first 11 days, then we added in jose and katia, then we had maria and also lee the whole entire, every single day we've been tracking at least one hurricane and what's next,ability of some developments south of cuba. 40% chance this comes a tropical depression. none of our computers take this to florida as a big powerful storm, maybe a tropical depression or storm. we'll watch you florida over the

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and ends up costing over 3500 bucks over 2 years. you're cleaning that up. don't get caught off guard by directv. touchdown. get the best with xfinity. the latest crisis on the korean peninsula. south korea's president called for his country to ramp up its defense capabilities in the face of ongoing graegs from the north. >> it comes as south korean officials say they expect more provocation from pyongyang in october. joining us now, the president of the council on foreign relations and author of, a world in disarray, rich haas and former under secretary, ambassador wendy sherman. good to have you both. this is disturbing times. go ahead.

>> where are we? what's the latest? >> the latest is that the u.s. policy so s to essential work with others through the u.n. to ratchet up sanctions against north korea in the hopes it gets them to -- >> the chinese move on oil this past weekend was that significant. >> again, the idea we've had this conversation before but the idea that sanctions alone are going to be enough to persuade north korea of the error of its ways is extremely unlikely. >> what will help them see the errors short of military force? >> i don't think anything will. they have made the strategic decision that they need a nuclear deterrent and they need missiles in order to preserve their safety and security of the country in this regime. >> and what have you heard the mind set inside the administration being are they -- are they moving towards the possibility of military options and does that seem to be where this administration's going. >> i think it's being looked at. the idea of ratcheting up

military pressure is one of the things they're looking at anything from direct uses to embargoes. at least is scenarios where military force happens not because of calculation but because of the jockeying between the two sides north korea shoots at an american bomber. we retaliate, we could stumble into an issue. what's really been missing in in addition to all the military preps and the rest is a diplomatic mention. eight months have gone by, eight months, why -- north korea's used that time to test missiles and nuclear weapons. why have we not tried to freeze where they are? why have we not said here's what we prepared to do, nortkorea -- >>ou brought this up last week because the esidt, the vice president, the secretary of state, we could go down to the line, none of them, jared kushner, the de facto secretary of state at times, none of them have a day of foreign policy experience. >> that's exactly. none of them has been through a

crisis, so this dimension -- it's almost missing for broadly with rex tillerson, china has suggested we freeze north korea's testing in exchange for a freeze on our military exercises. if that's not acceptable, why don't we say, we'll adjust our military exercises, we'll agree to a peace treaty, you said we'll do this with sanctions, even the north koreans go for it or it gives us clarity and then we can use their refusal to accept a reasonable deal, we could then probably get greater international pressure on them. we could help a reluctant south korea president to put more pressure on them. we are diplomatically missing in action now. >> given all that, ambassador sherman how concerned are you that we may stumble into a situation given the president's rhetoric which is almost child-like and then all of these deficits that richard just listed in the foreign policy sort of construct that this president should've put together? >> probably everybody at this

table has had somebody in their family ask are we going to be at war tomorrow. >> that's right. >> we could indeed get there by accident miscalculation. i was thinking at this and at the beginning of the bush administration, ten weeks into george bush being president the ep 3 incident. an intelligence aircraft that was shot down by a chinese fighter jet. the pilot of the fighter jet died. our 20 sum crew members held bit chinese and it was an intelligence craft with all of this information. can you imagine that in this instance if one of our b1 b bombers is flying over internional air space and a north korean plane which are not very good so accidently brushes it, we would have a crisis and imagine what this president would do. he would tweet up a storm and we might be at war in a moment. george bush i must say handled it not badly, ended up with a letter of what's called two sorries. so this is pretty tough stuff.

>> you're describing someone that just shouldn't be at the helm. >> your last segment was about what the american people think about the president and, you know, his -- i understand how you want to go toe to toe with this brutal dictator kim jong-un, but quite frankly, when you do that he has no choice but to come back at you. he is considered a god in his country. north korea is more like a cult than a country and so he has to respond and so you get an escalate tri cycle that's not in anybody's interest, all the people have told him to cool out, that's not possible for him to do. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," back in november, mark zuckerberg said it was crazy to suggest fake news on facebook influenced the election. but now he's saying something very different. the billionaire talks about his regrets while also pushing back at new complaints from president trump. you know who likes to be

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welcome back to "morning joe." let's go live to the white house and nbc news peter alexander with a bit of breaking news for us. good morning. >> reporter: just a few moments ago we heard from the press

secretary sarah huck by sander on twitter to the federal response on the terrible disaster still unfolding in puerto rico. this is about the jones act. we'll show you what she just tweeted. at the request of puerto rico's governor, the president of the united states is authorized the jones act will be waves for puerto rico that it goes into effect immediately. this is important because by lifting this rule, foreign ships can now carry goods to puerto rico. the jones act required that only american owned and operated ships could effectively go directly to the ports there. one of the biggest problems may not be getting the stuff to the ports, getting all that cargo there but actually distributing it right now but there's been a heavy push across the country in the course of several days right now to try to impress upon the president the need to waive the jones act for the people of puerto rico. another piece of news that we'll be watching over the next hour

or so is the health secretary tom price scheduled to hold a news conference. we'll be talking about the upcoming flu season but he's going to face some tough questions about his private travel habits. this controversy as you've been talking about keeps growing after reports that price took at least two dozen charter flights this year, the cost to taxpayers more than $300,000 as some trucks move on to the white house lawn. the latest headline regarding this was to an exclusive georgia result where the price's own property. it was for a medical conference but he arrived about a day and a half early. federal regulations can only charter when no scheduled commercial flight is available. none of this is sitting well with president trump. ea ea here's the warning he delivered on the south lawn friday. >> i am going to see -- i'm looking at that very closely. i am not happy with it. i will tell you i am not happy with it. >> would you fire him, sir?

>> reporter: if you couldn't read lips, he said we will see. congressional investigators from both sides also demanding answers. tom price's press aid heard the criticism and the concerns that he take it all seriously. inspector general is completing a review. price is also ordered an internal review. he's not alone. three cabinet secretaries are under scrutiny for their travel including treasury secretary steven mnuchin as we've been reporting. overnight new reports that they epa administrator scott pruitt has taken at least four noncommercial and military flights since early this year. the cost to taxpayers there more than $58,000. his spokesperson explaining that the one charter flight and the three government flights were due to special circumstances. back to you. >> there's been a lot of reporting around the white house that the president is annoyed at tom price as the stories have

come out about his private jet travel, annoyed to fire him? >> reporter: we've certainly heard privately from some folks the way the president thinks this is a fireable offense. the president wants to let the inspector general complete its audit and review before he takes any action. no timeline for that but for a guy who made his name with the catch phrase you're fired this would seem like a circumstance where he might want to deliver those words. >> all right, peter thanks as always. joining us on set at "the washington post" ruth rcus. university professor at columbia university dr. jeffrey sax. author and nbc news political analysts anan and lon hee chen. dr. sax, let me start with you on these flights.

tom price and scott pruitt flying extensively. they're saying there were not commercial flights available they had to get some where quickly. there's not much of a precedent for an administration that came into office talking about draining the swamp, priding itself on changing the way things are done in washington. this is not a good look and pretty indefensible actually. >> it starts at the top obviously. the president's golf trips, let's get an accounting and a costing of that. mr. president, if you're listening and we think you do, give us an accounting of how much it cost the taxpayers for all the trips you've taken, all the vacations you've taken this year. it's unbelievable. that's in the millions and millions not the hundreds of thousands. >> and both fiscal conservative who pride themselves on good government and not having wasteful spending in the budget is about as wasteful as it gets. >> i would actually argue with jeffrey that in some ways, though it's not as much as money the cabinet secretary's travel is even more appalling because

it cost a lot of money to move a president around, presidents get to take vacations and trips, this president may be pushing the limits of it but this is just completely unnecessary. it is not the way people who are public servants operate -- >> i don't defend -- >> we're just making comparisons of madness and no one -- everybody in washington understands that this is not an acceptable way to behave and the fact that we've seen so much of it so quickly suggests that the disdain these people have for government and i really think it actually connects up with this waiving of the jones act. great that the president did it. why did it take so long? he talked about the corporate interests that were reluctant to do it. these guys are very happy to use government to help them, they seem a little bit more oblivious to the needs of government to help people who are really suffering.

>> it's telling to that no one seemed to view this as a problem until it became public over the last couple of days because you have repeated trips taking over and over again at taxpayer expense where it wasn't frankly required. there's not an instinct to say, wait a minute, this is long. >> leaders set a tone. we all know donald trump lived until recently in a house with a stuffed lion in guilded every inch, so they live in a world in which people live in gold and don't see the realities which other people live. the amazing thing to build on your point about the jets, there's an unseemly quality to them being in jets. that's not the real issue, the real issue is these people don't believe in the use of government to help people with cancer, they don't believe in the use of government to help people from going into bankruptcy because their kid got a relatively minor illness, but they do believe in the supreme pers and necessity of the united states government flying them places for thousands

of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars that you can get for 100 bucks on expedia, so our government has been hijacked by people who don't believe in the use of government except for themselves. >> we'll see if president trump takes action on this. he's as i said to peter, he made it clear floating into newspapers that he's upset about this and that he's annoyed by it. what do these trips that go back to steve mnuchin's honeymoon and all the rest of it bringing up, what do they tell you about this administration if anything? >> there's a dis dent between these stories and the policy goals that the administration is looking at. if you think about obamacare repeal and now you think about tax reform, one of the big questions certainly around tax reform is the question of, how large is the deficit going to grow from this tax plan? there's a disdent between the party of fiscal responsibility and some of these stories.

these stories will develop. we'll see the full extent of them eventually. but the optics are very bad and they're self-inflicted wounds. this agenda could be moved forward more rapidly and effectively if it weren't for these self-inflicted wounds. >> lon mentioned the tax plan, we've got the broad outlines of it, even mark meadows, the congressman said they don't have the details ironed out in terms of where those numbers would fall in the three new brackets that they're proposing. the president calls it a middle class miracle already. what do you call it? >> i call it unbelievable that it took them eight months to write what -- oh, should have taken about three hours. there's not a number here, there's not a table here. this has nothing to do with fiscal reform, this has nothing to do with fiscal conservatives and this is rich people that pay

for the republican party, this is donald trump trying to end the estate tax so he can pass along his wealth to his children. this is sham bollic. it's unbelievable that in nine months -- >> is that a technical tax term? >> it is. there's not a table in here. it's unbelievable. they don't have the numbers. what were they doing the last nine months? and mark meadows frankly, come on. he was asked why don't we do this -- have some hearings, have some testimony, develop something in committees, said we've been doing that for nine months. mr. meadows, get with it. this is not a deposition right now. this is a dis great and that where your health care legislation tanked because it was done secretly. this is the same business. it's a game. this is not a plan. it's not a plan and it's not reform. >> what's really interesting, you mentioned the estate tax being repealed and inter tans tax being repealed.

donald trump ran and won about a lot of things but he spoke to people that felt like the very american opportunity to change your fate, get ahead had somehow suffered and he was going to change that. and in that sense he was right. we have -- we are becoming an inherited society. if you're born 1940, you had a 92% chance of outearning your parents, you born in 1984, this tax plan repealing inter tans tax on super rich people suggests that he is simply not the man he promised the people he was. >> there's the question of how you pay for it, $2.2 trillion tax cut we asked kevin brady the chair of the house ways and means that comes from the growth of the tax cut. >> and the growth fairy so they'll conjure up at gross numbers that would just be imaginary and they'll play around with baselines and assuming costs are already built in to the cost, and that's

crazy. lenny chen whose a serious conservative, maybe that was once true. but even imagining a tax cut that will be -- once you've massaged it and make a lot of assumptions will be $1.5 trillion is not fiscal responsibility, it's not at odds with how we saw the cabinet's secretary treating federal money, it's completely out of peace with it. these people are not taking the deficit seriously. >> can you make the case for this tax plan? >> there's things here that's bipartisan decision. the need to change our tax code so we don't penalize people trying to bring money back from overseas, at the end of the day i don't think they're going to end up bringing that top rate down to 35. i think they're going to keep it at 39 because that's the only way to square the circle on the

president's promise about not reducing taxation for the top 1% or for people at the top end of the income distribution but all these things are part of the piece here. the administration needs to be very careful because they're in danger of not being able to make the case on the substance. there is a substantive case to be made for why this tax reform is a good idea because all this process stuff is getting in the way and we saw with the obamacare debate how deadly that can be to the effort before we even get to any substance if the process is bad. >> everybody's chomping at the bit. we'll fit in a quick break. everybody stays. up next when it comes to major airport, even a small glitch can cause pbig problems. a computer glitch is causing a problem worldwide. stay tuned. kevin, meet your father.

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let's bring in sarah eisen live from the new york stock

exchange. airports dealing with a massive systems outage this morning. what can you tell us? >> many frustrated travelers and this was a global issue, willie. major system outages that effected airports around the world, major hubs like paris, zurich and frankfurt. the issue appears to have been quickly resolved earlier this morning. as far as u.s. airlines effected southwest airlines did say that it had some computer trouble but that's been resolved. the culprit was a spanish firm called amadais group and all sorts of other services for airlines flight operations so we'll wait to hear from them to see if there's any further fallout. also wanted to mention the reaction in the markets to the ta proposal. cheersthumbs up from the stock market especially for groups like bank stocks, banks are considered big winners from this plan, morgan stanleyly ceo said

that a 25% corporate tax rate would boost his earnings by 15% according to the "the wall street journal," well this proposal laid out a 20% rate so it could be an even bigger boost. another beneficiary of this would be tech firms. the nasdaq, the tech heavy had its best day yesterday since august. they have a lot of cash overseas, if they can bring it back at a lower repatriated rate that could also fuel earnings and share buybacks and help those stocks as well. just a few winners that the market is looking for. small cap stocks as well, the restaurants and retailers, they pay the highest taxes. they're not internationally exposed, willie, so they could also be a big beneficiary if that rate gets cut down to 20%. >> we'll see if it happened, cnbc sarah eisen at the stochl exchange. president trump has 24 million followers, mark zuckerberg has four times that number. now they're going back and forth over russia, fake news.

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dziukburg also said he now regrets saying it was crazy to think facebook might have influenced the outcome of the presidential race. it's unclear who will represent the companies at the november hearing and this morning's the "new york times" points out how twitter is becoming a key battleground in russia's influence in campaigns. the times reports that as many as 600 twitter accounts pushed opposing messages using hash tags like boycott nfl, take a knee, and stand for our anthem. president trump is not backing down from that war of word with the nfl. here he is this morning speaking

with fox news. >> it is an important issue. it's not a distraction at all. first of all, i'm doing a lot. the nfl cannot disrespect our country, they cannot disrespect our flag or our national anthem and they can't have people sitting do you or kneeling down during our national anthem. i made a statement in alabama the other day and i said i think it's very disrespectful to our country and the world's picked it up and, guess what, most people agree with me. >> the controversy is the subject of this week's "tim magazine cover story, quote, "why he always bounces back." ma massimo, good to have you with us this morning. what more did you find out about why president trump is so deeply engaged and leaning so hard on this story? >> it's how trump manages the

multiple crises, he's had the north korea new mexico, the health care problem, the problem in puerto rico and what is he talking about? he's talking about football players. it's a model of how he has managed the presidency. in this case, the polls show they're supporting him on this and he did manage to get away from subjects he didn't want to talk about. >> this came up out of the clear blue sky. he was at an vant in al b-- even alabama and he went in on the nfl. he said the league is not what it used to be, we have to bring back the hard hits. why do you suspect he went to this place. >> just because you're an idiot doesn't mean you don't know

exactly what you're doing. i think he knows exactly what he's doing. donald trump is in a predicament. he ran on populism, on helping average people. now he's in government and nothing he's doing is going to help them. so he has to do something to make those people betrayed by all the tax cuts and private jets, make them feel like he is doing somethinfor them. when he activates those cultural issues, he knows exactly what he is doing. he is activating racist sentiments and a kind of chauvinism, cultural chauvinism that he thinks is insurance against the fact that his actual policies will only hurt the people who put him in the white house. >> i want to go back ament to this facebook story as well. it just feels like we've scratched the surface only. it's the type of the iceberg of

russia creating platforms and now talking about twitter. these movements, a lot of them are coming out of russia. >> i think, you know, i've been thinking about that scene in the movie -- now i'm forgetting the name of the movie where hal, the comput computer -- >> "space odyssey." >> thank you. our technology has grown so quickly and effectively, it's become a little bit out of our control. i think when muark zuckerberg said it was crazy that russia could influence the election, i think he didn't understand what his technology has created and allowed to happen. i think it's really important to get a handle it on it to know what's going to happe in 2018 and 2020.

and around the wod. >> massimo, what can twitter and facebook and these platforms do now to thwart it going forward? >> one of the things we've found with people grappling with these issues is it's very, very difficult to differentiate information sleuthing through social media that comes from a state sponsor or that comes from somewhere else. so this is really a long-term project. and more broadly, whenever there's a new medium, it takes a little while for readers to understand the difference between truth and lie and reliable information and nonreliability informatinonr non-reliable information. it's a challenge for democracy more broadly and it's also interesting, as you pointed out that, trump is playing in the

space a little bit here, especially including with the nfl. >> massimo calibrese, thank you very much. >> boy, are we ricochetting around without any solutions and without any governance right now. there's no planning, there's no substantial. we're just absolutely day to day being driven by strange events. >> on that happy note, dr. jeffrey sacks and my panel, thank you very much. that does it for us on "morning joe." we'll see you tomorrow. stephanie ruhle picks up our coverage now. >> good morning. selling the tax plan, the president pushing what he call as middle class miracle. what will happen in tax reform falters? >> it's the difference between succeed as a party and failing. it's the difference between one term and two.