sending a message to the cabinet, knock it off. this is not draining the swamp and also tom price found the president's wrath. time to go. >> jen, big news. a new book out. we'll spend time talking about it next time you're here. will you come back monday, or any day that works for you? >> sure. >> and thank you to you all. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace, "mtp daily" strarts right now. hi, chuck. >> hi, nicolle. let you know, friday at 5:00 p.m. -- >> happy fun day. >> shocker, right? >> i guess. >> well, if it's friday, private jet travel comes at a price. a steep one. hhs secretary tom price steps down. good evening. i'm chuck todd in washington. we begin tonight with the breaking news. health and human services secretary tom price has resigned. after being engulf in a controversy surrounding his use of private jets.

moments ago the white house put out a statement saying price offered his resignation earlier today and the president accepted it. moments before that the president told reporters he was not happy about how price has done this and that a decision about his future to possibly fire him was imminent. >> he's a very fine man but we're going to make a decision sometime tonight. i didn't like it. cosmetically or otherwise. i was disappointed. i think he's a very fine person. i certainly don't like the optics. i'm not happy. okay? i can tell you. i'm not happy. >> amazing to hear a politician say the word "optics." anyway, price is out after politico broke the news the use of privates and charter jets cost taxpayers more than $1 million. ousted not just because of what he did but what it represented for an administration's mantra was, "drain the swamp."

other cabinet secretaries are indefendant gated for questionable travels and furthering the president's agenda. price became expendable because he failed to repeal obamacare multiple times and that certainly didn't help his cause today. on the issue of private jets, his mea culpa looked like an effort to save his job. >> we think it's important 20too a number of things's one, no private air chafrters at hhs going forward. a second is to cooperate fully, obviously, with the inspector general. there's a review going on and i called for an internal review within the department sfefl and finally to pay more my portion of those trips. >> last night price said he would reimburse taxpayers $51,000 for his seat on these planes. but as our friend at espn cris carter might say, come on, man. that's a fraction of what it costs when you charter your own

plane and some of the routes, commercial travel is widely available. hop on a commercial same-day flight for a few hundred bucks tore take a 90-minute train raid for a lot less than that and gas money, takes about two hours. price's private charter costs taxpayers $25,000 just to go from d.c. to philadelphia. sure, when the country's $20 trillion in debt, the government's use of private jets might seen like chunk change pap congressman in 2009 didn't think if was chump change when the other side was spending taxpayer money on private planes. >> i think we made it half way we were out to, from eight to four and now cut from four jets to zero jets. this is another example of fisk's irresponsibility run amuck in congress right now. >> ah, in the first decade of the 21st century.

now we know what you might be thinking. this is the trump administration ethics scandal everyone's outraged about? price might think the same thing. look at the examples set around him. the president not die divesting from his real asset empire, weekending here at taxpayer expense, or weekending there as taxpayer expense as well, or his use of private e-mail to conduct official government business, or her promoting trump brands while using the white house podium, or this russian government official's constant contact with trump's team which they often didn't disclose or the administration pushing his tax plan that might save members of his own family billions in taxes. also potentially benefiting many members of his cabinet. this trump hotel, probed by government watchdogs, also probing this former national security adviser, also probing this interior secretary, which is also probing this treasury secretary. now that price is out, does it cool this fire or fuel it more?

is there now blood in the water? joined now by nbc white house correspondent kristen welker. i know you're just getting more details here. i think some people will say, is price a sacrificial lamb in order to hope it takes the heat off of these other, other notable ethics probes going on? or was price just that egregious? >> reporter: i think it was both, to some extent. i think the president wanted to send a strong message, chuck, but there's no doubt he was infuriated and every day there was another headline. so i think it was also the fact he saw this as egregious behavior and against his stated vow to drain the swamp. as you pointed out in your open. now, the white house saying they're conducting a broader review. so he may not be the only cabinet secretary to go, but no doubt right now the president wants to send a message with this move, and look, writing is on the walls for days, chuck. the president was asked in the

middle of the week if he was going to fire price and he said, we'll see. yesterday he was pressed on whether he still had confidence in price and he declined to answer. behind the scenes, of course, we talked to our sources who said one of my sources says, he's a goner. that was mid-week. seemed it was moving in this direction. and that the president wanted to let the process play out a little but again i think just an avalanche of negative headlines. one point that's an important one. he saw price as ineffective. that just didn't help his case. not only because he couldn't get health care passed, remember, chuck, he was really one of the first voices pushing the president to tackle health care first. which went against the way the president wanted to proceed when he first took office. and i'm told he was still stewing about that, to some extent. we're still getting the details of how this all went down, but right before the president left for bedminster, he reiterated how frustrated and it seemed

inevitable. >> and kristen welker, reminding folks, recall the cabinet process, cabinet vetting process, certain members the president focused on and certain ones vice president pence was focused on. tom price was considered sort of in the pence wing of that. a good point there. i don't think the president was personally as invested in him as, say, a steve mnuchin or perhaps a ryan zinke. and tonight's panel, host of, analyst, host of hugh hewitt on saturdays and campaign policy director for obama and clinton and carolyn start with you. the one thing that i am mildly surprised about the president sort of accepting this resignation is that he is also one of those, you don't give an inch. >> uh-huh. you don't. >> when you feed the beast here, the washington beast. the sacrificial lamb of tom price. is it blood in the water?

more trouble for ryan zinke and mnuchin and more trouble for the president or do they think they had to do this one to make it stop? >> i think that every newsroom in this city is now, if they weren't already, looking into all of the things that the cabinet officials are doing. it's kind of something that has not been a huge focus, but for sure. and i'd say two things. one, this is not going away. there are going to be other things. it spells more trouble for the other folks who by the way, perhaps if they were delivering then they would be spared. but if you're not, and not doing -- doing things that are getting the president headlines he doesn't like, clearly the president sent a signal you'll be gone. but i think there's more to come on this. >> hugh, do you accept the premise that we laid out? that part of this -- you know, they didn't set a high ethical bar at the start of this administration, and they did send a message down the line you could get away with stuff. >> confused as to the white

house counsel's role in advising and general counsel's slow standout. tom price is a friend of mine and disclosure, probably should have been aware of this anyway. my son works at epa and scott pruett is a friend, i don't think anything is remotely connected between the two. and worrying me the most, tom price was integral for the executive rollout in the legal strategy. better be bobby jindal time. bring in a hitter that can run the department. hhs matters a lot. president obama lost tom daschle, slowed down obamacare. got it eventually but slowed it down. it's devastating to a key part of the policy going foreand ought to have been made clear, don't use military transport, private planes, don't charter. should have been done. >> i worked there for a time. no one chartering a jet when aye was there. i need to say that. >> and curious. go to, a viewpoint about, what the vacancy means and the idea that -- how it canceled things

down in -- booked. working with what they wanted to do with health care? >> i think, look, tom price had an agenda to sabotage the aca. be clear about that, and doing a pretty good job trying to sabotage the aca. my perspective, a little happy that gets slowed down for a while but i think,s had jose doesn't ha hhs doesn't have many people there as it is. any of theirs turmoil makes the president's agenda harder. stepping back, people didn't know seems ridiculous to me. end of the day, the president had people scream at the top of their lungs, drain the swamp, in response to him, and the idea that people -- his cabinet didn't -- the white house didn't know that chaerting jets that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars looks like year swimming in the swamp instead of draining it is ridiculous. same for mnuchinzincy and

pruitt. what is the distinction? you look like you're profiting out of public service. that angers people about drain the swamp. >> tom price, back to that, all of those -- steve mnuchin, first time in the political arena. scott pruett, first time in washington. zinke, one-term member. tom price is the one ten years ago railing against this stuff. it was like -- it was obvious hypocrisy. >> and really -- feels like he just got caught up in the culture of this administration. >> what it feels like. >> i think the president sent a message today that he doesn't necessarily really think this dee behavior is bad. >> said optics. >> doesn't like when out in public is caught. >> i want to push back on pruitt. you seem like you're not -- >> i know the lawyer at hhs, the spokesperson, personal staff of the secretary. i want bobby jindal, something

with big brains to come in, big problems with health care, not sabotaged. didn't work from the beginning. jerry rigged, falling apart. bush back on pruitt. studied about him, interested in the epa. my son works there. those four trips approved by the gc, going to the bottom of oklahoma in one to meet with stakeholders president obama never cared about. wetland people, the water of the united states rollback. by all means throw attention on that. i think, though, going forward the white house has to put out the crystal clear guidance about, if you're going to go somewhere you tell us first and john kelly has probably put that into place by now. >> i worked for cabinet secretaries, flew doech very remote places. i don't think that's a standard, but i do think, in reality, if you are arguing that your motto is drain the swamp and the whole idea of that is that people are not going to use the government for their profitmaking. i agree. the president himself sent weird

signals on that with trump hotel et cetera. but it's common sense not to take $500,000, $100,000, $50,000 flights. >> by the way, how about this. >> as your medicaid man. >> how much money did the republican party spend on the tom price special election? i mean -- it is -- >> ironic. >> could have actually funded, i think bought him a plane. at this point. $15 million, one total here. you know, hugh, it's interesting. when parties lose control of congress, a lot of times the final straw is some ethical -- sort of the final sales pitch. right? it happened -- it can happen that way. >> 2006. >> that would be -- >> mentioned -- nancy pelosi's pitch in 2006. she won on it. however, the best news, only good news out ofs they, sets a standard. >> sets a standard. >> and everybody's going to go we're in the back of the plane. e want to go standby now. >> at this point, yes. or everybody be with beltsy

devos who at least owns her own plane at this point. take a pause. and thank you all for being here. you guys are sticking around. a lot more to talk about on new taxes, puerto rico. you know it. coming up next, the white house defends its response to the crisis in puerto rico. we get that, next. discover card.

hey. what can you tell me about your new social security alerts? oh! we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so you'll be in the know. ooh. sushi. ugh. being in the know is a good thing. sign up online for free. discover social security alerts. love golf. i used to love golf. wait, what, what happened? i was having a good round, and then my friend, sheila, right as i was stepping into the tee box mentioned a tip a pro gave her. no. yep. did it help? it completely ruined my game. well, the truth is, that advice was never meant for you. i like you. you want to show me your swing? it's too soon. get advice that's right for you. investment management services from td ameritrade.

welcome back. it's been nine days since hurricane maria hit puerto rico and millions are still without power, struggling to get essentials. supplies are piling up at the port because there aren't enough workers to unload crates. administration officials are surveying damage. acting dhs secretary elaine duke in puerto rico today while vice president mike pence announced he'll visit the island next friday. president trump takes his own trip there on tuesday, criticizing their government and, again, brought up the fact that the u.s. territory is in a debt crisis. >> we're closely coordinated

with the territorial and local governments, which are totally -- and unfortunately -- unable to handle this catastrophic crisis on their own. ultimately, the government of puerto rico will have to work with us to determine how this massive rebuilding effort will end up being one of the biggest ever, will be funded, and organized. and what we will do with the tremendous amount of existing debt already on the island. >> okay. but the mayor of san juan had her own criticism of the administration. >> i cannot fathom the thought that the greatest nation in the world cannot figure out logistics for a small island of 100 miles by 35 miles.

we are dying, and you are killing us with the inefficiency. and the bureaucracy. >> san juan mayor cruz on with rachel maddow tonight. more in 60 seconds. building a website in under an hour is easy with gocentral... ...from godaddy! in fact, 68% of people who have built their... ...website using gocentral, did it in under an hour, and you can too. build a better website - in under an hour. with gocentral from godaddy.

when president trump ripped nfl players for protesting the national anthem he set off the latest in a series of angry debates americans were having with one another. last year kaepernick took a knee during the playing of the national anthem in the preseason. began to protest the treatment of people of color by police. then last week the president used and expletive in criticizing him and other nfl players and broadened his attack to the whole league launching more protests from players, fiery rhetoric from both sides and actual fire when fans burned jerseys. well, disagreement is an important part of an open society.

but the "new york times" columnist says the art of disagreement is dying. in fact, he writes, "to disagree you must first understand well. you need to grant your adversary moral respect. give him or her the intellectual benefit of doubt." that habit isn't exercised much and the consequences could have enormous implication for our journalism and government, and i was, brett stephens column originally delivered as a lecture at his own controversial invitation. pretty moved by your remarks i read and glad we have you here finally to talk about this. >> thanks for having me on, chuck. >> the argument of disagreement has been a problem pre-trump. seems more acute now. >> look, you know, if you go back and watch, for instance, william f. buckley's show, "the firing line." he'd have intellectual

adversaries, could get very heated and was sharp. one of the things that made those encounters so rich and so interesting, especially to intelligent people is buckley and his guests understood each other well, and so when they were debating they could actually lock horns in a significant way, and there was a chance they, you know, a possibility that one side or the other would be persuaded. we just don't do that anymore. we kind of sit on our separate islands of ideology, and identity, and we sort of lob -- we -- we lob artillery shells at one another without actually a kind of basis of communication. i think that's why many of us feel those of us who are sort of somewhere in the center of politics, that there's something really perverse and wrong with the way that americans speak to one another in my view, culminating in that appalling statement by the president about colin kaepernick.

. >> when do you feel this began? something do you feel started 40 years ago? i have my own theory ow campaigns have turned into this and thend i think it's the misuse of big data. we don't even persuade during campaigns. the candidates don't advertise on the same issues. only trying to find like-minded votes to win and, of course, no way to govern. but when do you think we got here cultureturaly? >> a historian would say worse during the years of adams and jefferson. in the last 20 years i think one of the things that happened, too easily we inhabit our kind of social media filter bubbles in which we only hear and have reflected the views that we agree with to begin with, and the second thing is, that too much of television has become a kind of rage factory for one side or the other. when there's never any actual meeting of minds.

you simply carrick kwhaicature other side has to say or think. unpatriotic or neanderthals and attack the straw man and it's been going on a lot of the time. part of the problem is on campuses. i don't think we are teaching students as well as we ought the art of persuasion and how to handle a controversy point of view. >> people point to cable television and talk radio as well. give you one example, and some may fire at me for this, but i don't think it was healthy we had a cable news channel run by a former political operative. >> look, a lot of it began exactly with that. and i have to say, if there's a silver lining to the trump elections that i think a lot of news media, at least certainly the "new york times" where i now work, woke up to the fact we need to have a richer conversation with a much more diverse set of voices. i was just listening to your

panel just now with hugh hewitt. that model's exactly the kinds of disagreements and conversations we need to have. so if the trump election is a kind of come to jesus moment for a lot of the media, saying to themselves, what have we done? as it may be, by the way, also for facebook, at least something good would have come out of last november. >> while i have you here, news of tom price. how much of this do you feel is actualtural? as far as the -- of this administration here and i'm not trying to excuse tom price, but he looks around, sees a cabinet filled with rich people who a are -- seeming to be able to do things on their own with a special set of rules? >> there's a kind of culture of moral slovenliness and lack of accountability i think comes from the top down, but listen, in the spirit of what i was saying earlier, at the end of the day the president should be commended for firing or

accepting the resignation of tom price for behavior i think all of us agree stretched every bound of propriety and ethics. so from time to time even i have to give this administration the benefit of the doubt. this was the right decision. >> it's funny you say benefit of doubt. that is something else that neither side -- lamar alexander said something the other day reminded plea. one of the lessons learned from howard baker, every once in a while when debating think about the fact maybe the other fella might be right. >> yeah. that's exactly it. i think any intelligent person has to say to himself, i could be wrong. in fact, i think that's the market of all intelligent people. >> well if everybody started every debate with trying to figure out how they could be wrong about an issue, then they would, i guess, your argument is, they'd actually make a better chase advocating against that issue if that's truly the way they feel. >> humility never hurts. >> a terrific, a column forum.

i'd like to see the speech as you delivered it. we looked for it. i recommend to everybody, read it. terrific. congratulations on the award as well. coming up, continuing to follow today's breaking news on the referring nation of health and human services chief tom price. so keep it right here. you know who likes to be in control? this guy. check it out! self-appendectomy! oh, that's really attached. that's why i rent from national. where i get the control to choose any car in the aisle i want, not some car they choose for me. which makes me one smooth operator. ah! still a little tender. (vo) go national. go like a pro. it's ok that everybody ignores me when i drive. it's fine, 'cause i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident-free. and i don't share it with mom. right, mom? right. safe driving bonus checks, only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it.

it's me? alright emma, i know it's not your favorite but it's time for your medicine, okay? you ready? one, two, three. [ both ] ♪ emma, emma bo-bemma

♪ banana-fana-fo-femma ♪ fee-fi-fo-femma ♪ em-ma very good sweety, how do you feel? good. yeah? you did a really good job, okay? [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, thank you, from johnson & johnson. mean to be one nation under trump? and this sunday, the gop civil war is going to be a big part of

our conversation on "meet the press." a candid conversation with republican senator bob corker who decided this week not to run for a third term. he'll be among my guests. you want want to miss this. stocks rising this last trading day of the quarter. dow closing 23 points higher in another record close this year. the s&p up nearly nine points and tech-heavy naz dake gaining 42 points. biotech stocks falls as the fda makes side effects foremedicine surgical and elon musk wants to transport passengers anywhere on earth in under 60 minutes. part of his plan to send humans to mars by 2024. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. i count on my dell small business advisor

for tech advice. with one phone call, i get products that suit my needs and i get back to business. ♪ i'm not a customer, but i'm calling about that credit scorecard. give it. sure! it's free for everyone. oh! well that's nice! and checking your score won't hurt your credit. oh! i'm so proud of you. well thank you. free at at discover.com/creditscorecard, even if you're not a customer. when i feel controlled by frequent, unpredictable abdominal pain or discomfort and diarrhea. i tried lifestyle changes and over-the-counter treatments, but my symptoms keep coming back. it turns out i have irritable bowel syndrome with diarrhea, or ibs-d. a condition that's really frustrating. that's why i talked to my doctor about viberzi... ...a different way to treat ibs-d.

viberzi is a prescription medication you take every day that helps proactively manage both abdominal pain and diarrhea at the same time. so i can stay ahead of my symptoms. viberzi can cause new or worsening abdominal pain. do not take viberzi if you have no gallbladder, have pancreas or severe liver problems, problems with alcohol abuse, long-lasting or severe constipation, or a bowel or gallbladder blockage. pancreatitis may occur and can lead to hospitalization and death. if you are taking viberzi, you should not take medicines that cause constipation. the most common side effects of viberzi include constipation, nausea, and abdominal pain. stay ahead of ibs-d with viberzi.

we said it before. donald trump is a president unique in u.s. history taking office without any government or military experience. first time ever. rode a wave of populism unseen since andrew jackson and dispensed of political norms

sort of unofficially governed modern politics. a new book called "one nation under trump" details this and its challenges to the institution of america's democracy and authors allege the system should not have let president trump win. joining me now, two of the three authors of "one nation under trump." norman orenstein and "washington post" columnist and brookings institution seen oh fellow e.j. okay. the system should not have allowed to to happen. norm, referring to the electoral college or something other than that? >> mostly electoral system, careened, tilted out of control. the way the system operates you cannot see a majority necessarily prevealing. if you look at the 44 elections from 1824 until 1996, when the popular vote first came into being arguably only one where

somebody won the presidency without winning the popular vote. five elections since, 40%, too, and also a nominating process to have a president like trump, never been in any office before, been a talk show barker, that also is something that the old rules would not have allowed. >> interesting. we continue, founded as a republic and actually getting rid of various aspects of the republic and going to a form of direct democracy. talk about the president's nominations. you could argue that had we only had a convention system, like we did arguably until 1952, donald trump never would have been a nominee. >> true, although i think what we argue is that a system that is supposed to be democratic has become more democratic for good reason. african-americans didn't used to be able to vote. women didn't used to be able to vote. expanded the franchise and said this should be democratic yet foil democracy regularly through the electoral college, through

the senate, in the senate. in 20 years, people, 70% of the people will live in 15 states meaning have 30 senators. there's something you can't change -- can't change the senate but can change jerrymandering. a list of reforms saying we took this step to make us more democratic. you can't be in a halfway house and the founders wouldn't recognize what year doing anyway. never thought we'd elect by electorate. breaking with the founders. we broke with that a long time ago. >> do we need a constitutional convention on this? >> god help us from that. >> i agree. that would be -- no. on one hand, this, we couldn't handle it. but you are describing, we have to rewrite the rules. >> we can do a lot of this without changing the constitution. the senate, you can't effectively. the electoral college, a movement now, the national popular vote, initiative that will, already have 165 electoral

votes from state that say once you get to 270 they elect directors to vote for the winner of the popular vote. a lot of things to do whip the house and don't need a constitutional convention, for example to have multimember districts ranked choice voting. we have a bill to do just that. these are heavy lifts but can be done without a constitutional convention. >> the argument of our book, a chunk on political reform to make us more democratic and call it a new democracy. you look at the trump election, you look a what was going on in the country and radical inequalities and racial divisions in the country. parts of the country that are incredibly prosperous and parts of the country that were hurting, and the prosperous parts weren't paying much attention to. a whole debate, did trump win because of race immigration? and in some cases bigotry or because of economics? we argue both things happened at the same time. economic context to this racial

division but he definitely appeared to racial division, as we saw again with the nfl. >> the tone of this book implies that his election is -- is having a negative impact on our system and on our democracy, but let me pause it something. where would we be as a country has narrowly lost? >> a very dysfunction place. >> worse than now? >> no, i don't think worse. we see a kleptocracy now, troubling moves towards autocracy, talking earlier haven't filled policy positions not just at hhs. we use caucustocracy. and tribalism and a hopeful tone at the book at end. trump is jolted us into realizing -- >> that's my point. that's the point i was getting at. i think that whatever your views of donald trump that, his election is going to, has the

opportunity to create a healthy revival of the american democracy. >> yes. >> no matter your perspective, left or right. >> what you're seeing, the reaction against trump, has mobilized a whole lot of people who weren't mobilized to politics before. >> again, the reaction for trump mobilized a bunch of people that weren't affected either. >> although i think -- in what's interesting politically is, in these special elections and off-year elections you kind of see a demobilized republican party the way you saw a demobilized democratic party in 2010, in 2014, but also making us much more aware norms matter. you said earlier in the show about price, that there was an example set at the top. you can't have rules about everything. you have to expect people to live by certain norms, even if not written down and trump, as you said, i think sent a signal that is not good for the way the government operates. >> how do you rebuild that, though? rebuild that ungoverned -- >> it's going to be -- a heavy

lift and not just -- >> some on us, the media. >> not just in the white house. it'sed in congress. look at the way they've handled the health care debate. blowing up the regular order as we called it. the norms there. here before the show started evan mcmullin was on. brett steeves was on. we've got people like jennifer ruben and mike gerson who are out there trying to take a party that i -- we believe has had a lot to do with the decline in norms going back to gingrich and before to try to turn it into a problem-solving party. if elites can net a broader public to understand we need to rebuild those norms and punish people who violate them we may be on the start of something good. >> okay. leave it there, but -- it's a fascinating read and, yes, i like the -- debate you on some of the political reform ideas but all are at least worth discussion. brett stephens said, say, learn to you to discuss and

disagree -- >> and said we must look for the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth. >> there it is. kel well done. the book, "one nation after trump." go get it now. up next, never seen anything like this before. seriously. when you have something you love,

you want to protect it. at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. welcome back. tonight obsessed way certain phrase president trump likes to use a lot. bigley, actually.

we got an example today when the president talked about the devastation in puerto rico. >> i'd like to begin by sending our thoughts and prayers to the people of puerto rico. who have been struck by storms of historic and catastrophic severity. people have never seen anything like this. >> and in that case absolutely true the damage done to puerto rico by hurricane maria is unlike anything we've seen. struck us, president's use of that word, "nerve seen anything like this." where have we heard that before? >> there's never been anything like this. >> never been anything like this. >> never. >> never, nnkts everybody had a thing like this. >> never anything like this. >> anything like it. >> never anything like it. >> not since medieval times have we seen anything like this. >> come on. the friday. admit it. you've never seen anything like that before. we'll be right back. the morning walk was so peaceful. until... it... wasn't.

don't let type 2 diabetes get between you and your heart. even if you reach your a1c goal you are still at risk for heart attack or stroke. talk to your health care provider today about diabetic heart disease. and find out more at heartoftype2.com. your heart and type 2 diabetes. make the connection. hi, i'm the internet! you knoarmless bowling.lt? ahhhhhhhh! you know what's easy? building your website with godaddy. get your domain today and get a free trial of gocentral. build a better website in under an hour.

if you watch this show the last two days you know we're hearing dramatically different accounts about the recovery effort in puerto rico. here's what the governor of puerto rico told me yesterday. >> every petition i've asked the president, he has delivered. very quickly. >> and here was acting dhs secretary elaine duke. >> it is really a good news story in terms of our ability to reach people, and the limited number of deaths that have taken place in such a devastating hurricane. >> and the mayor of san juan had this response this morning. >> dammit, this is not a good news story. this is a people are dying story. this is a life or death story. when you have people out there dying literally, scraping for food, where is -- where is the good news? >> that brings us to the panel back, hugh hewitt, carol lee.

carol, the white house actually quietly tried to walk back elaine duke's comments. explain. >> well, they felt like they were, to say the least, unhelpful. and what you've seen from this president, though, is his comments as early as a few hours ago, an hour or so ago saying things are going really well. everything's going really well and when you hear that and then see images coming out of puerto rico and hear the mayor, it suggests he's not in tune with what's happening. you know, one of the things i found interesting the way he started to talk about puerto rico suggests, raises the question whether to rebuild. if so, how, and might not look exactly the same. he has to has a conversation with congress what this is going to look like going forward. another thing that at least raised questions about the funds. >> yes. hugh, the president talks about

cosmetic. talked about it, it's striking to me when he does it, yes, this cosmetically doesn't look good about tom price and optics but very mindful of it with irma and harvey. aggressively so. something's missing here and he looks less empathetic. brings up puerto rico, sits there, brings up the debt issue, for instance. >> what he's missing. the pictures did not arrive for a week. i knew immediately and recommended overwhelmingly go to catholic charities, google, get their money there. i knew what it would be like when a storm hits an island. only with the pictures did i get a sense absolutely devastated the back country is. far more many americans than impact biy katrina. not getting prescription drugs, these are pictures. the president is a learner via television. the television doesn't cover

much because there was no power. it's not race, if that's what we're driving at. >> no. seems as if he's not connected to it. he doesn't feel as connected to it. acted more connected to florida and texas. >> i mean, talk about an optics problem. there are problems in puerto rico as we speak. they will are problems tonight, problems tomorrow, problems sunday. the president is golfing this weekend. that's an optics problem, i think. it if you want to communicate we hear reports fromgovernor of pu. it's a dire situation that needs the full attention of the american government, and just feels like there's not a response. i have to say, we've gone through a lot of racialized fights with this president, and i do think there's a concern that he's not looking at these folks as full americans, as other people are. i think that is a worry. not saying it is, but i think

people feel that when there's one response for one group another for another group and it's so slow, and the urgency is even greater in puerto rico right now. >> going back to -- surprised they haven't been more sensitive to to these optics. again, because they were so sensitive to it in texas and florida. >> if you talk to people in the white house, there's this feeling, it is translating to look line spreek ke puerto rico other. >> like it is sort of our responsibility. >> arm's length? >> and there was talk, there is this, well, they have all these fiscal problems and there is this sort of blaming. >> i have to say, with the exception of the jones act, inexplicable delay, i think the response of the united states navy has been overwhelming and fast. the american people are generous. the uss comfort took a week to stand up because it is a reserve

ship. there were two deep well anthem shipments with helicopters. they're doing a lot. the cruise lines are doing a lot. victor was my guest for an hour today. i think the middle of the country is perceiving the attack on trump as they perceive the nfl crisis, very differently from the bubble. and they think america is responding to their fellow americans' needs quite well and more needs to be done. but i think there is a gulf between perceptions. >> why do you say that? his numbers have come down since last weekend. i think people are concerned to his response about puerto rico. i don't know what you're basing your view on. i think most people rthing the government has been too slow to puerto rico. i don't know why it is happening. i think you get a sense that puerto rico is not like texas or florida. >> you can't help, this has been intertwin intertwined. the fact is he has tweeted more about the nfl than puerto rico.

when he was in hurricane mode, his numbers went up. when he was in hurricane mode, he was in hurricane mode. he didn't get -- >> he hasn't been this week. >> this week he hasn't been in hurricane mode. >> he moved so quickly on texas and florida. he was there really early. he, they had he this down in a way, you and i covered the beginning of the obama administration. they wouldn't have pulled that off that early. they just weren't equipped and didn't get it at that time. and they seem to get it. now respectfully disagree. >> farther up along the dmz than we've ever done before. you have to do many things at one time. he is executing pretty well. >> it's, if we're talking about that. when he was not getting distracted by shiny objects, his numbers did increase. and even though on this nfl

issue, it has on the one hand, yes, that wedge issue, maybe a majority are with him. they've been interesting in the polls. the majority of public doesn't like it. >> it is a chick-fil-a moment from five years ago. i think they're messing with what the country thinks about puerto rico and they're missing trump. the polls go down. social desirability, as has been explained to me. i think he is doing fine with the same states that he won before. and i'll send to you victor davis hansen. he is uncannily cunning when it comes to what middle america thinks. that's geographic differences. >> we'll see in future elections where people are. he has created a hard core. it seems like almost 50% of the

country. not 36. 50% who strongly disapprove of him and see his behavior. i think people can even agree with him on some issues but don't like that he focuses on culture war over their lives. and i think that's very legitimate when you have a puerto rico crisis. >> back to puerto rico, if they were a state, would the response have felt different? >> i think that's the big question. you can take something as simple as, you look at the president's twitter feed in the run up to harvey and irma. and you would see a difference. that's just one piece of this. then you can see just the level of destruction is so apparent to. hear him say that things are going really well. i think if you're looking at that, you're looking at those two things side by side. it gives you a sense. >> and i'll starting to wonder document the territories have enough voice in congress? >> we have to ask ourselves

game, virg islands, harm's way of north korea and storms. do they need more representation in congress? >> yes. >> every story becomes a trump story. sometimes an unprecedented territory. >> not being represented is not an excuse for not doing enough quickly enough. >> this is a case i feel like we can get there. brett be stevens is there. a grim return to politics. we'll be right back. i was playing golf days ago...

love golf. i used to love golf. wait, what, what happened? i was having a good round, and then my friend, sheila, right as i was stepping into the tee box mentioned a tip a pro gave her. no. yep. did it help? it completely ruined my game. well, the truth is, that advice was never meant for you. i like you. you want to show me your swing? it's too soon. get advice that's right for you. investment management services from td ameritrade.

hey you've gotta see this. cno.n. alright, see you down there. mmm, fine. okay, what do we got? okay, watch this. do the thing we talked about. what do we say? it's going to be great. watch. remember what we were just saying? go irish! see that? yes! i'm gonna just go back to doing what i was doing.

find your awesome with the xfinity x1 voice remote. finally, in case you missed it, former staten island congressman and convicted felon wants his seat back. it was announced that he will announce his run for his old seat. he finished up his term in federal prison last year, running for congress so soon after being released from federal prison? if that sounds like an uphill battle, there's more. he was asked to comment on the fraud charges. and then we got this. threats of violence against

reporters. you can say it is a grim reminder of the fight club mentality that seems to be growing in this country. a few years ago, it was considered out of bounds in today's culture, is he now a front-runner for his seat? we'll be watching. that's all for tonight. we'll be back with more mtp daily. we have a great show for you. i promise. thank you. have a great weekend. >> breaking news right now, tom price, president trump's point person on obamacare, is out. ousted from the white house on a friday night staff shake-up. this is clearly certainly the most significant policy staff change that donald trump has made to his team and it comes as price was underfire for that private jet scandal boiling all week. at a time when trump comes off losing the key obamacare fight. now price wasted hundreds of thousands of