nothing has changed in my life. what do you expect? >> all right. so next up, reports indicate o.j. would like to live in florida. that's where he was living prior to going behind bars. now attorney general pam bondy is saying she doesn't want him to. that's going to wrap up this hour. stick with us on msnbc for updates and breaking new throughout the night. this sunday, disaster and response. the mayor of san juan, puerto rico, lashes out at the trump administration over recovery efforts. >> we are dying, and you are killing us with the inefficiency. >> president trump hits back. >> the loss of life, it's always tragic, but it's been an incredible -- the results that we've had with respect to loss of life. >> and tweets, they want everything to be done for them. we'll have a report from puerto rico this morning. plus promises, promises. the republicans say their tax plan gives everyone a tax cut, won't favor the wealthy, and

won't increase the deficit. >> tax reform will protect low income and middle income households. not the wealthy and well-connected. >> i'll ask treasury secretary steve mnuchin whether those are promises the administration can actually keep. also, trumpism trumps trump. the president's base declares victory over the president's candidate in alabama. >> i believe in the second amendment. >> has mr. trump started a revolution he cannot control? my guest, republican bob corker of tennessee who has decided it's time for him to get out of the senate. and in the midst of those nfl protests, i'll talk to one of america's leading social critics, ta-nehisi coates, about race, white supremacy, and the legacy of our first african american president. joining me for insight and analysis are joy reid. david brooks, columnist for the "new york times."

danielle pletka of the american enterprise institute, and msnbc political analysis charlie sykes. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. celebrating its 70th year. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. when the history of the trump presidency is written, we may look back at this week as one of the worst for this president, considering. his secretary of health and human services tom price had to resign over his free spending on charter flights. his latest efforts to repeal and replace obamacare went belly up without a vote. this week's tax reform roll-out focused more on what it does for the wealthy and it's unclear what it does for the working class and the poor. alabama republicans defy the president by nominations roy moore over mr. trump's pick of the establishment. but the biggest story of all may wind up being what's happening in puerto rico. the mayor of the capital san juan unloaded on the administration's response to the disaster there. >> so i am done being polite, i

am not done being politically correct. i am mad as hell. we are dying. and you are killing us with the inefficiency and the bureaucracy. >> president trump responded with a series of tweets yesterday, including this one. such poor leadership ability by the mayor of san juan and others in puerto rico who are not able to get their workers to help. they want everything to be done for them when it should be a community effort. 10,000 federal workers now on island doing a fantastic job. tammy leitner, my colleague at nbc news, asked mayor cruz if she felt mr. trump was personally attacking her. >> i don't care. he can attack me all he wants. you know, bring it on. i'm here. you know what, if it saves lives because it gets the message in the right place, frankly, my dear, i don't give a damn. >> let's get a reality check here.

ron mott is standing by in san juan, puerto rico. we have this war of words between the president and mayor of san juan, you're there. tell us the state of the recovery efforts. >> reporter: hey chuck, we have an argument like this, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. i suspect that that's the case here in puerto rico. things are not clearly as rosy as the president and the administration would have people believe. there is aid here. no doubt about that. and on the flip side, things are probably not as dire as the mayor made it sound the other night that the administration in effect is killing people down here. people have died, but making the connection between people dying and lack of aid and food and water here, that's probably a debatable point. but i can tell you this, chuck, i've covered a lot of these storms in the aftermath of these storms. life here is very, very hard. it is bad. there is no question about that, but that is the usual case after a major hurricane like puerto rico experienced with maria. the thing is that we have not

seen here is usually 11 days out, as we are at this point after maria, you see a lot more infrastructure in place. supplies runs down the highway, convoys and military officials. we're not quite seeing that. yesterday i saw one electric line truck and there was no one in a cherry picker putting a line back up. so let me set the scene for you and what they are dealing with. 95% of the island still in the dark. it is hot, it is still hot here in the tropics. 80s upper 80s with high humidity. yesterday it rained all day. conditions here are miserable for people trying to get by day-to-day. that's how they're living down here. hour by hour. there are lines everywhere you see. lines to get gas, food, lines to get water, lines to get cash. lines to get into the grocery store, also to the drugstore. they're dealing with lines.. people are spending considerable parts of their day standing in line trying to get some need met, and in some cases, they get to the point where they are told, there's more no gas. and so you can imagine how frustrating that is just enough to make a grown man or woman cry. so they are desperate down here in many cases.

i spoke to a retired police officer, lost his house, staying next door with his parents. they have about a day, maybe two days worth of food left. nobody has come to their neighborhood. >> ron, what is the bigger issue here? supplies or distributing the supplies? >> reporter: it's the distribution. we sat at the port yesterday. there was a lot of activity at the port. they were unloading a barge, container after container coming off the barge, but there aren't truckers sitting there waiting for these containers to be connected to their rigs so they can get them out. fema said that it has already distributed 2.5 million liters of water, 2 million pounds of food. we can't dispute any of that. that port is not -- there's not a convoy of containers leaving that port going out into the communities with all of these relief supplies. a lot of the stuff at the port, now we can tell you this, was not hurricane relief stuff. these are goods that have been regularly scheduled to come down here. the truckers just can't get here. there's a little bit of silver lining perhaps coming tomorrow.

crowley, which is one of the big carriers, say they are expecting a major delivery of fuel tomorrow that is going to be met with a lot of applause here. >> ron mott who has been covering all of the recovery efforts in the caribbean, thanks very much. joining me now is the secretary of treasury steve mnuchin. mr. secretary, welcome to "meet the press." >> thank you for having me here. >> before we get to the tax reform plan, i have to ask you about a few things. maybe you can clarity a couple of thing as somebody who serves in the president's cabinet. what did he mean by this idea that puerto rico wants everything done for them? what did he mean by that, and why did the president seem to be so angry in his tweets this morning? >> we very much appreciate the difficulty of what's going on there. the devastation has been very, very difficult. and the president and the entire administration, the entire cabinet are very much focused on this. i've personally been involved in many aspects of this. i've been working with secretary

perry on the electrical system. you know, we have put a priority to get the hospitals back up and running. we have electricity now to most of the hospitals. i've worked with the federal reserve on cash. you commented on issues with people getting cash and banks. we've literally sent in tens and hundreds of millions of dollars worth of cash making sure we get banks and atms open, and we're focused on food and water and everything else. this is something that is a very big focus of the president and the cabinet. we've been meeting almost daily on this. >> why does the president think puerto rico is not doing enough to help itself? >> i think the federal government's role is working with the local government. and the governor's done a terrific job, and we'll continue to work with him. this is something that's a partnership between the federal government, getting resources to the state, so that it can be distributed there. >> okay, you mentioned the governor, but not the mayor. why did he attack the mayor.

she's in a pretty desperate situation and it seemed to lack a bit of empathy for the situation like this. >> i think, as you know, when the president gets attacked, he attacks back. i think the mayor's comments were unfair given what the federal government has done. this is really about -- have you been down there? >> i remember going through hurricane andrew, you still don't have power. any, you know, the president himself tweeted a week after sandy hit where it's outrageous that power isn't on. people do get frustrated. >> again, i completely understand people's frustration. and this is a very, very difficult situation. i haven't been there, but i've been almost on daily calls monitoring what's going on with the rest of the cabinet. i think fema's done a terrific job. given a very difficult situation. and we're doing everything we can to get resources to the governor so that they can be distributed. but i understand people's frustration on the island. and i can assure you the federal

government's doing everything we can. >> does the president -- it seemed as if yesterday his tone changed in puerto rico. does the president regret attacking the mayor and the people of puerto rico yesterday morning? >> i haven't spoken to the president about that. so i can't comment on it, but i don't think he was attacking the people. he understands that the people are going through a very difficult situation. >> all right. let me move to the tax plan here. i would say the way this was rolled out, it seems as if you're making promises that if you can keep them all, it would be -- you would get -- it would be like houdini. the deficit somehow isn't going to go up, everybody's going to get a tax cut. but the wealthy aren't going to benefit. explain to me the philosophy of this. is everything going to get a tax cut no matter their income level? >> well first of all, i think your characterization of similar to houdini is just not fair. i've been working on tax reform with the president since the

campaign. he's been very consistent on what his goals are. his goals are to get it middle income tax cut. his goals are to make business taxes competitive. we have one of the highest tax rates in the world. we tax on worldwide income. we have a concept of deferral. this is really a job's act. this is about creating jobs. and we've been completely transparent on the numbers and what this does to the deficit. >> all right. is the working class and the poor going to get a tax cut? >> absolutely. the objective is a middle income tax cut -- >> middle class? >> absolutely. >> is the wealthy getting a tax cut? >> the president's been very consistent. the objective is not to give a income tax cut -- >> you said income tax cut. >> that is true. >> because the estate tax is a tax benefit to the wealthy, correct? >> the estate tax, also known as the death tax, okay, we believe that people should pay taxes once and not twice. so i separate the income tax system from the estate tax system. the purpose of getting rid of the estate tax is so people who have farms and family businesses can continue to pass those on.

>> so does anybody pay more? >> again, we'll go through the details. as we have them, we'll have full transparency, but the president's been very clear, and i've been clear from the beginning. our objective is not to create tax cuts for the wealthy. our objective is about creating middle income tax cuts. as you know, one of the things we're trying to do is eliminate lots and lots of deductions. one of those deductions is about getting the federal government out of the business of subsidizing the states. this will have different impacts to different people in different states. >> the goal is -- there's a lot of this tax plan and it came through. it seems as though red states benefit. blue states get punished. is this issue on the state taxes not being able to write them off anymore, is this a way to target the wealthy in blue states? >> not at all, that's absolutely not fair. i would say about tax reform, it hasn't been done in 30 years. we're focused on changing the

system. the system's broken. and most americans understand that the system's broken. they're not happy with the difficulty of filling out tax forms. it's gotten harder and harder, and under our plan, 95% of americans can fill our their taxes on a giant postcard. think about the beauty of that. in that what the money it saves, the money it saves at the irs and the simplicity of it. >> i have to read you a quote from senator bob corker. he said they're sugar out on the table. you haven't gone to deal with the spinach part. not a little leaf of spinach was thrown out on the table. i guess you could say the state tax deduction getting rid of that is your form of spinach. what else? i mean, is anybody -- are we going to take seriously the fiscal issues of this country with this tax reform plan? because right now you look at a lot of folks like bob corker, they say this is going to blow a hole in the deficit. >> well, first of all, i've had the opportunity to speak to senator corker in person and lots of others and i went

through the math with him. and the math i went through with him is, on a static basis, our plan will increase the deficit by a trillion and a half. having said that, okay, you have to look at the economic impact. there's 500 billion, that's the difference between policy and baseline, that takes it down to a trillion dollars, and there's $2 trillion of growth. with our plan, we pay down the deficit by a trillion dollars, and we think that's very fiscally responsible. >> for what it's worth, there has been no study that has been able to somehow reinforce this idea that tax cuts do translate to economic growth. the one time it did was when we went down from 90% with kennedy down and got rid of that tax hike, but where is the analysis here? i know you guys scrubbed one from the treasury department on one having to do with corporate tax cuts. where is the analysis? >> as soon as the details are out, this will be scored by lots of different academics. we're happy to put plenty of economists on this show who support our plan and will go through the numbers with you.

so this will be fully transparent to the american public. and they understand that. this is about creating $10 trillion of gdp. this is over $2 trillion of additional revenues to the government. and this is about jobs. millions and millions of jobs. americans understand, we have a broken tax system, and this is about making us competitive and bringing back jobs. >> i want to go back, you are willing to have the president sign a tax reform bill that increases the deficit? >> not on a dynamic basis. so just to be clear, we fundamentally believe that there are actions in the tax code that create economic growth. so, no, the president is not going to sign something that he believes is going to increase the deficit. but that's -- that's different -- >> there will probably be a debate on what those numbers mean. you acknowledge the fact that not everybody's going to agree. >> there should be a healthy debate on those numbers.

that's why we have full transparency on what the numbers will be. >> was it appropriate that tom price was fired? >> again, i can't comment on that. he resigned. what i will say is appropriate, i think the american public deserved to know how their money is being spent and that it's being spent carefully. >> do you regret making the requests you made for government aircraft whether it was to go to kentucky? i know there's an inspector general on that one, or the question you made, which i know ended up with withdrawn at the time, do you regret doing that? >> i don't, and let me tell you why. first of all, all of our travel went through the same process as previous secretaries of the treasury. every single one of my trips was approved by the white house. and the only time i've ever used or would use a private plane for government purposes, if either there was a national security issue or we couldn't get somewhere. and that's what this is about. >> so the kentucky use of the plane was a mistake? >> no, i never said it was a mistake. it was approved by the white house, and there were reason why is we needed to use that plane that are completely justifiable, and we look forward to the ig

report. >> okay. secretary mnuchin, appreciate you coming on. >> thank you. insurgent roy moore's primary campaign over president trump's pick luther strange was big news this week. yes, that also happened this week. and what happened in alabama may not stay in alabama. senator bob corker won his last race by 25 points. he decided not to seek re-election. i sat down with him and the hearing room. he heads the committee, and i asked him about moore's victory and if he is getting out because the senate is increasingly looking a lot more like roy moore and a lot less like bob corker. why the is governing wing of the republican party, especially when i think about yourself or mitch mcconnell or paul ryan, why do you feel as if it's your wing that is taking the ire of this insurgent populist base? >> well, i mean, by the way, each of us are three different individuals -- >> no doubt, but you know what i mean here. but you guys have all operated within the spates of you try to

pass what you can. >> yeah. look, again, if you look at washington for some time has not really been able to address, i think, the needs of people in our country. there are so many people in our country who have envisioned their life being different than it is today. so many of the people, hard working tennesseans and others are not at the state in life they thought they'd be after they felt doing all the right things in life. working hard, maybe a high school education, maybe went to community college for a couple of years, raised their families, worked hard, and they find themselves just from a standard of living situation not where they thought. there's a lot going on. a lot of rhetoric generated this, unfortunate rhetoric, but look, let me just say, i wake up every day and, chuck, it's a tremendous privilege for me to do what i do. we're sitting in the foreign relations hearing room, and it's such a privilege for me to do what i do.

>> you said something about the president right after charlottesville. you were questioned whether there was a competency and a stability of the office of the presidency at that time. do you still feel that way? >> i'm not trying to be critical, but some of the words have been left out. what i said is he has not yet demonstrated some of the competence and some of the stability that might have been reversed, but not yet demonstrated and we need for him to be successful. i mean, the country needs -- the world needs for him to be successful. look, i stand by those comments and, you know -- >> you stand by them today? meaning you still feel this way? >> look, i think that general kelly has brought in an air of discipline that's been as transformative as far as how the white house operates. i think they did a great job with texas and florida during the hurricane. very professional. i thought it took a lot of courage of the president, by the

president to change his long-held position about afghanistan. so i'm seeing changes, but i made the comment -- i stand by the comments i made at the time. i don't make comments like that without thinking about them. you know i know. >> i know you didn't do it lightly. that's why it was a big deal. >> i chose the words. i stand by the words. when i met with the president a week ago friday i said, i stand by what i said. >> what'd he say to you? >> it was kind of humorous. it was. i mean, we spent about five minutes on this topic. >> he remembers any sleight, doesn't he? >> he remembered, he said you called me incompetent. i said, mr. president, i knew it was coming. i said here is what i said, and i stand by these comments. okay. i stand by what i said. but the press said you said -- mr. president, here is what i said, do you want know read it again? you know, in five minutes, we moved on to the other topic. >> you know, something struck me when i think about this interview. when you were elected in 2006 and you took office in 2007, we

had troops based in afghanistan. and when you leave office in 2019 -- >> yep. >> -- we're going to have troops in afghanistan. >> yep. >> when your successor contemplates a second or third term in the united states senate from tennessee, are we still going to have troops based in afghanistan? >> the entire gdp of afghanistan cannot support even their security forces. i'm talking about their own security forces. the likelihood of us having troops there, some level of troops. now, you know, what matters, chuck, is what are they doing? okay. what are those troops doing? but are we likely to have troops in afghanistan for the next decade? sure. >> two more quick questions, when you ran the first time, i looked at your early ads, big proponent of the balanced budget amendment. it tells me you're a deficit hawk. >> i'm a deficit hawk. >> when this tax cut plan, whatever tends up looking like at the end of the day, if it -- if the analysis says it's going to blow a hole in the deficit, first of all, what is a hole to you?

any additional dollar to the deficit? $100 billion? is it -- where are you on this? >> so, i'm willing to accept the realities of where we are, and that is that we have a policy base -- in other words, taxes. kind of like the dot fix. you know, we kept making up the fact that this was going to change. i'm willing to accept current policy, number one, i think that's rational. and i'm willing to accept a reasonable score on dynamic growth. a reasonable score on dynamic growth. joint tax does those, other groups that do it, but if it looks like to me, chuck, we're adding one penny to the deficit, i am not going to be forth. okay. i'm sorry. it is the greatest threat to our nation. the greatest threat to our nation. it's like, chuck, we've entered a party atmosphere here. everybody was a fiscal hawk, kind of, not really, but kind of up until the election.

now it's, now it's like there's a party going on up here. okay. heck with revenue, heck with the, you know, constraining spending, so yes, i will remain a deficit hawk until i leave here. and i'm looking so forward to this tax reform debate because the one thing that hadn't been discussed is the $4 trillion in base broadeners that have to occur for this to be successful. and every lobbyist in the world is going to be up here fighting those. >> it's amazing in retirement how much democrats are coming up saying they're going to miss you. >> i told people if i knew they were going to say so many nice things about me, i would have retired earlier. i mean, it's deny wonderful. and look, i hope, i think i'm going to have more impact over the next 15 months than i've had in the last ten years. >> free agent. >> well, i just think the issues. i mean, the first, first two years of a presidency is when most of the activity takes place. we're going to be playing a lead role in iran here in a few weeks.

tax reform, and i look forward to working with all of my colleagues here to make good things happen. >> senator, i know i'm going to have you on again before you leave, but thanks for talking to me today. >> thanks a lot. >> corker also told me economic pressure has not worked in north korea, and we're going to end up with a binary choice. he's very concerned we've cornered ourselves there. you can see the entire interview on the website. meetthepret.com. coming up -- it's too much to say puerto rico is president trump's katrina. remember a la president obama's alleged katrinas. how much could the administration's response hurt the president long term? y inflammatory substances with a gentle mist. most allergy pills only block one. and 6 is greater than one. flonase sensimist. ♪ what comes to mind when you think about healthcare? understanding your options? or, if you're getting the care you need? at aarpadvantages.com, you can find

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welcome back, david krooks, welcome back, david brooks, joy reid, danielle pletka and charlie sykes. author of the book "how the right lost its mind." a red hat. what does that mean there, charlie, jeez. >> you just like hats. >> i've got to start with puerto

rico. the president is tweeting again this morning on puerto rico. somewhat toned down. we have done a great job with the almost impossible situation in puerto rico outside of the fake news or politically motivated ingrates, people are now starting to recognize the amazing work that's been done by fema. all buildings are now inspected for safety. thank you to the governor of pr and those working closely with the first responders. fantastic job. charlie sykes, you tweeted yesterday when the president went on the tweet storm in the morning against san juan he was sending talking points to his base. that that was the purpose of that tweet storm. >> it was kind a dog whistle. never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. no, so maybe you just have a president who lacks the self-control who just lashes out at any criticism. but, on the other hand, he did it in the context of a president who never wants to take responsibility. and what you had yesterday, you had 18 tweets in 11 hours. where you saw thin-skinned

finger pointing, anger, you saw that kind of -- you saw that kind of, you know, trumpian, don't blame me. look at those other who are incompetent down there. very much the anti-harry truman. that was a signal to his base and his fan boys out there, but on the other hand, he's donald trump. he can't contain himself. >> joy, here's what erick erickson wrote yesterday. he goes, it should matter to all of us that the president is willing to get in the mud and fight back when they need our sympathy and compassion. sometimes the president does not need to dial up the jackass and does not need to be defended. >> donald trump is just being himself, right? he's channeling his base. he's talking to them, but he's channeling them. before donald trump started tweeting, some of the more prominent members of his base were calling the mayor worse names than that. saying she's a murderer and she belongs in jail. it is interesting that donald trump's reflex is to say that a woman, a woman of color, you

know, is an ingrate or to attack her or say the people of puerto rico essentially are too lazy to help themselves. want something from the federal government that they won't provide to themselves. he went on the tweet storm which was the most he had talked about puerto rico at all. a year to the day after he attacked the former miss universe, donald trump has a particular reflex to attack women, to attack women of color, and to signal boost to his base this idea that people of color are lazy and dependent and won't do for themselves. he's sharing that with a large portion of his base. >> a lot of people see a pattern here. she -- we forgot the gold star dad happened to be muslim. there were steph curry last week, an nba basketball player of color. there appears to be a pattern. >> if you look at the republican party and ask, do you think there's much discrimination against white people? a large percentage say yes.

how strong is white identity for a lot of republicans. 40%, the sense of being whiteness is a strong identity factor. so the other half, not so much a factor. they believe conservative ideas are good for everybody. and donald trump is playing for the white identity party. and therefore it's becoming harder, operationally, to be a republican without suddenly siding with that. and so the other half of the party has to decide, can we side with a guy who is constantly dragging us into racial politics over and over again in a way that becomes offensive? i've been a conservative 30 years. i never used to hear racial stuff at conservative gatherings. now it's suddenly become very hard to be a republican and not be somehow associated with something racially reprehensible. >> i was surprised that the secretary didn't have at least some pullback on the president's tweet on the mayor. >> i think that the secretary has managed to please the president by defending him gently and deflecting effectively. the problem is exactly as david laid it out. the question is, when do you want to separate yourself from the president?

when do you at a certain moment decide that your own reputation, whether you are a republican or just as an individual, is more important? and this really is the great dividing line. this is where you see people like bob corker separating themselves. this is where you see people actually deciding, i don't want to be part of this anymore. the question is, why more of the republican party, frankly, why more conservatives aren't willing to do that. erick erickson has been very courageous throughout this, but i've been shocked by the number of people who aren't willing to stand up and say, hey, you're actually not speaking for me. >> charlie, that's been the point of your whole book. explain. >> well, you know, part of it is you have people who made the bargain they're going to enable, they're going to look the other way because they're going to get tax cuts and of course you have the orange kool-aid drinkers who are doing all of that. and this is going to leave a stain on the republican party. this is going to leave a stain on conservatives for a generation. but let's go back to, you know, this comparison with katrina. whether or not this is trump's

katrina. this could actually be worse. because katrina was about indifference and incompetence, this is about mean-spiritedness. and also, you know, let them eat cake imagery we're getting from this administration. yesterday was his 67th day spent at one of his golf clubs, and he's sitting at this golf club tweeting out attacks against a mayor who is, you know, wading through sewage trying to save people's lives. people are dying. this is a natural disaster. this is understandable. so yes, it's race, but it's class. it's also competence. it's just the lack of human empathy. where's the hope? >> i think it's important to separate the tweeting from the reality. so the tweeting is what it is. but it strikes me that the actual aid effort to puerto rico is like a c, c plus. i've been watching, are the governments still functioning under this administration? there are a number of great people who are keeping their head down, doing their job. and i've been moderately impressed that it's still -- >> where's the leadership? where's the hope? with the nfl and puerto rico, these moments where we would

normally come together as a country, and you have the president who stokes the wars and turns this into political division. >> in a situation like that, that is what the president does. the ceremonial function of president is to explain to the nation what are values are in this moment. the problem that george w. bush had was as an optical problem. he seemed indifferent. donald trump to your point is a malice. he's saying what we did see in katrina, the idea of the people who were suffering in new orleans were at fault. that they were people who were undeserving and unworthy. that had a racial component. this has racial component. the difference is george w. bush wasn't leading the white tribalism. it did eventually get turned on the people in the katrina situation. donald trump is leading it. >> and by the way, if he wonders if there isn't going to be an electoral impact, i introduce you to central florida on that. there are a lot of angry puerto rican voters in central florida that this may cost him down the road. when we come back, one of

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welcome back. for the second week in a row, more attention may be paid to what happened before nfl games and during. will players take a knee during the national anthem? my next guest spent much of his adult life thinking about race and its life in america. the los angeles times described

ta-nehisi coates. he joins me now. >> thanks for having me, chuck. >> this is what you wrote about in the election, you were not subtle in pointing the blame directly at systemic racism and bigotry. and this is what you write. the implications that systemic bigotry is still central to politics, that the salt of the earth americans whom we lie in eyes in culture and politics are not so different than those same americans who grin back in lynching photos are too dark. the response has been an argument aimed at emotion, the summoning of the white working class, emblem of america's hardscrabble roots, class, inheritor of its pioneer spirit as a shield against the horrific and empirical evidence of trenched bigotry.

you've said tougher words about this president. >> yeah. >> you don't think he'd be here without white supremacy. >> no, no. >> explain that. >> well, i think it's pretty easy. you have a political candidate who literally begins his presence or his campaign in birtherism. that was how it started. i don't think birtherism was a mistake and it wasn't a minority-held opinion within the republican party. you had eight years of an african-american president, and if not majority to at least plurality of the republican party believed that barack obama was not legitimate because he was not born here. and donald trump saw that, played on that, and that was how he launched his campaign. i just don't think that was a mistake. and he's continued with that all the way through. you have a president who had no problem going on tv saying, someone can't judge me because he's a mexican. it doesn't get much more explicit than that. >> solely your reaction to the election of barack obama? do we have -- do we get donald trump without barack obama as president? >> i don't think so. i don't think without that reaction.

that doesn't mean there weren't other factors contributing to a trump presidency ultimately. i would argue that white supremacy is an indispensable factor. which does not mean there weren't other factors there too. i think if you take that on, no, no, it's not a mistake we've never had a president whose never held political office or never been -- had a military posting or anything at all. no experience with the within the public sphere at all. to just stand it off like that. i think trump is different. he's not marco rubio. he's not mitt romney. this is a very, very different thing. and i think 50 years from now, historians will ask themselves how this happened and the answer will be the reaction to barack obama's presidency. >> what was interesting, you share a moment. you were with president obama a few days before the election in 2016, and neither one of you believed donald trump was going to win. and then after the fact, you admitted you couldn't believe you thought that. >> yeah. >> the reason i bring this up -- >> i'm disappointed in myself. >> how many african-americans in 2008 would say to me, he can't

win. and so, it's interesting how this has happened. >> well, i think the hard thing to believe is not so much the out and out racism and bigotry and sexism and et cetera and islamophobia that was represented by trump, there is a lack of -- excuse me blunt terms -- white self-interest in this. that you have a president who is effectively conducting diplomacy. nuclear diplomacy through tweeting. you would think, like, you know, there's a line, which says okay, you know, i'm not going to endanger myself in this way, and that was proven to not be true. that was the shocking part. >> i want to ask you something about a comment that nba coach greg popovich made earlier this week. here it is. >> people get bored. oh, is it that again? pulling the race card again. why do we have talk about that? because it's uncomfortable. people have to be made to feel

uncomfortable. and especially white people because we're comfortable. we still have no clue of what being born white means. >> curious what you think. it's one thing when you say it. >> uh-huh. >> what do you think white people hear when a white man, an older white man says it? says that, makes a comment like that. how important is it for an older white man to make a comment like that? >> i'm not exactly sure. i hope folks hear it in a certain way. i think the important thing that pop was getting at, when we talk about white normally people think blond hair, blue eyes, fair skin. in fact what we're really talking about, those physical features have existed for a long time. what we're actually talking about is a ascribing power to the physical features. and that is the dark sort of ideology spirit that trump repeatedly conjures. i was happy to see that. i was heartened to see it. you know, i hope it hit folks a certain way. >> what do you say to white viewers who are going to say and

listen, i'm not a racist, i'm not a white supremacist. don't ascribe all of this to me. >> i would say that i'm not a sexist either, but i'm deeply concerned about equal rights for women. i'm not a homophone either, but i'm concerned about rights for the lgbt community. it doesn't have to be me personally. i don't have to feel it personally to realize that i am somehow implicated collectively and sometimes have privilege because of it. >> it was an interesting comment by the owner of the cleveland cavaliers. lebron james made a tough statement on president trump. and the owner of the cleveland cavaliers went on cnbc a couple days later and talked about the reaction he heard. and he goes the complaints he got, it wasn't even about the issue that's really got me. they went to who they really are, some of them. there's an element of racism in this country that i didn't realize existed. let me ask you this, do you think there is that -- there is an upside in our conversation about race in this country that will come from donald trump's election?

that you have people like dan gilbert who was supportive of the president going, i didn't realize how much racism there still is in this country? >> no. no, i don't think so. i think this is a moment right now where people are seeing it. i think the capacity for people to forget should not be underestimated. and i don't say that just sort of blankly. we had a war in this country from 1860 to 1865 where large numbers of americans died and the price of slavery was made very, very clear. and immediately after that, people were very, very clear on that. within about ten years we were back trying to ascribe white supremacy in our laws. i would not be shocked if in the moment people are conscious and i don't mean this as an attack on dan gilbert personally, but if the country eventually forgets. i hope i'm wrong, but that's what i think. >> do you see that there is two steps forward, one step back? or do you see as what we've experienced as one step forward, two back?

>> i see chaos. i see chaos. i don't know. i don't know. we'll see. >> are you optimistic about your son's future in this country? >> i'm optimistic about my son. >> we'll leave it there. congratulations on the book. >> thanks for having me. >> the book is "we were eight years in power." when we come back the republican revolution on the right, who's fuelling it and who may be its next victim.

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and we are back. data download time. we've known for some time that the senate map is a tough one for democrats. well, what happened with roy moore in alabama might give republican incumbents reason to worry. here's what we mean. moore was propelled to victory thanks to the same voters who make up president trump's most loyal base. men without a college degree. in fact, only 23.5% of people in alabama have a bachelor's degree. strange won with the highest educated voters. roy moore won the state overall by ten points. now take a look at all of the republican seats up in 2018. most of these will stay in the republican column. democrats are unlikely to pick up any seats in places like utah or texas, but if what happened in alabama happens elsewhere, we could see a change in the type of republicans serving in the u.s. senate. incumbents in states with lots of trump-based voters might

start to panic. let's start with senator roger wicker of mississippi. he was already facing a possible tea party candidate with his right with a college degree in the country. 21%. then there's dean heller in nevada who was facing challengers from his right and left. how about tennessee where bob corker's seat is now open, another seat with a low college-educated population. this is an anti-establishment, mostly rural movement. even in states with higher rates of education, republican incumbents can't rest easy. john barrasso, deb fisher and jeff flake in arizona. to be clear, most of the republican-held seats that we're talking about are pretty safe for the party overall. two things could happen if more candidates are nominated from outside the republican mainstream. they could give democrats an opening to pick up more seats. we saw that in 2010 and 2012. or we could see an increased polarization and more gridlock and more headaches for leaders like mitch mcconnell. we'll be back in a moment

with end game. we're going to talk about this topic, how far with the republican civil war go? coming up, end game, brought to you by boeing. continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore, and inspire. i love you, basement guest bathroom. your privacy makes you my number 1 place to go number 2. i love you, but sometimes you stink. febreze air effects doesn't just mask, it cleans away odors.

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end game, brought to you by boeing. continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore, and back now with "end game." let's go to the republican civil war. david brooks, i was amused by

the people who were asked about roy moore after he won. chuck grassley, "if i read anything he's said, i wouldn't have any recollection of it." and "who won? i wasn't paying attention." this is a group of people with alzheimer's is contagious. . >> they thought they could beat the nationalists and roy moore with money and organization. they can't do that. they need a story. first, they need to say, you're a naturalist, we're globalists. i believe in global engagement. the second thing they need to do is give up on mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. that kind of leadership in the trump era, they do their own tax reform and shakeup.

>> we found that donald trump himself cannot contain what he helped unleash. you know, congresswoman from kentucky -- >> by the way, we have it up. people can follow the quote along. it's a great one. i think we have it here. "i thought they were voting for libertarian republicans. but after some soul-searching, i realized they weren't voting for libertarian ideas. they were voting for the craziest s.o.b. and donald trump won best in class." >> and now roy moore has moved to the front of class. the republican party has succumb to this virtual rage machine and they couldn't turn it off. any of us think that there's a policy answer for this, that there's a few personnel moves, i mean, this is something -- the beast has been released and they realize they can't right it anymore. >> as civil war implies that

both sides are still fighting. when you talk about forming a gang, they are not fighting. and they are not fighting. >> at what point does the voter turn around and say, what are the roy moors and donald trumps doing for me? is there any voter component here? are they always going to be willing to be sold energy drinks? >> yes. >> here, have another one. have another one. and never ask what the outcome is for them. >> i think what they are doing for them is just being there. i'm struck by the extent to which for a lot of the base of the republican party, the party's already accomplished what they wanted. they speak to their rage every day. all they want is for donald trump to be president and just be there. >> a definition of a dysfunctional government.

this is america jumping the -- >> i think there's a good, positive culture to be told that used to be the pioneer culture, that we welcome people in, as long as they work and love each other, we're going to be a universal nation. that'sed that's the idea. we solve this problem. >> paul, step up, mitch step up. >> this vicious feedback loop of applying to the most bombastic element of the party. what you had is essentially is outsourced the thought leadership to the loudest, the guy at the end of the bar as opposed to being a governing party of war. >> they are doing it because they learned the lessons of the tea party. the tea party came in and said we're going to win everything. they won and took down major leaders in the republican party. they are more afraid of primaries. once they got through them, it keeps them through the general election and governing isn't

even important. >> do you fear too many democrats are going to sort of be intoxicated by the idea? >> i don't think it's that. democrats are still enthralled to this idea that they can have back the trump vote and rather understanding that at this point, the democratic party is the party of people of color and the party of the women of color and of the young and go with your real base and stop trying to win back the sort of archie bunker type. >> i've got to take off. thanks for watching. back next week because, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." liberty mutual saved us almost eight hundred dollars when we switched our auto and home insurance. liberty did what? yeah, they saved us a ton, which gave us a little wiggle room in our budget. wish our insurance did that. then we could get a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey, welcome back. this guy... right? yes. ellen.

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