president pence, who was in phoenix at the time, was very upset with what he was learning and he called secretary tillerson and said, you need to fix this, which is what led to secretary tillerson's statement. >> wow. this is a report that you have pushed that has shook the white house, i know. we're out of time on "the beat." it expect we'll be seeing more from you on nbc and msnbc tonight. my apologies to chris matthews, whose show starts now. furious. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington with some breaking news. nbc news is reporting tonight that president trump was furious after our report that secretary of state rex tillerson called him a moron. vice president mike pence and tillerson talked about and that led to tillerson's remarkable press conference yesterday morning, when he denied

threatening to quit. but not -- but that he did not call trump a moron, he didn't deny that. this morning, president trump aimed his fury publicly, at least, at nbc. he said, rex tillerson never threatened to resign. this is fake news put out by nbc news. low news and reporting standards. this afternoon, the press secretary sarah huckabee sanders was asked about nbc's reporting that tillerson insulted the president. let's watch. >> was the president upset that his secretary of state didn't deny calling him a moron in his public remarks yesterday? >> look, as the secretary of state said, this is a petty, ridiculous accusation and frankly, i think it's beneath the secretary of state to weigh in on every rumor out there. his spokesperson, however, did come out and clarified that the secretary of state had never used those words. >> and what's your response to those who say the president has undercut the secretary of state? sara, just quickly? >> i think the premise of that

question is absolutely ridiculous. the president can't undercut his own cabinet. the president is the leader of the cabinet. he sets the tone. he sets the agenda. >> for more, i'm joined by nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell, also joining me, "the new york times," glenn tlush, former republican national committee share, michael steele, and "the washington post's" ann garrett. it seems to me like there's high dungeon at the white house. >> there's certainly anger. the president was already angry at rex tillerson because of what he said saturday in china about being open to direct talks with north korea. then when he had tweeted out tweets objecting to what tillerson said, then he was hit with our report, and was furious about that report, as he was preparing to go to las vegas. so for a variety of reasons, according to the white house, namely that john kelly, the chief of staff, had to work on other management issues at the

white house, but also, according to our reporting, that he wanted to manage this firestorm, he stayed behind. he did not take that trip. he later in the day met with both tillerson and defense secretary mattis at the white house, to figure out how to go forward with so much turmoil and with the president so angry at his secretary of state. >> how does one go forward when your top diplomat in the world, in fact, where are top continue member, apparently has insulted you in the company of a number of people? >> it's hard to understand how that is going to work. because he has been so badly damaged. some of this is self-inflicted, because over these last eight months, he has isolated himself according to critics, he has not filled key posts. diplomacy is almost paralyzed by this, foreign officials saying they can't get meetings with the secretary of state. foreign ministers from major allies having difficulty getting through. there just aren't enough people handling these relationships. that said, the core relationship between the president and his

top diplomat is deeply troubled. has been for months and months. the white house view is that tillerson lectures the president, doesn't agree with him. is rude and not respectful enough. mike pence, on a number of occasions, according to our reporting, has tried to intervene. they did talk yesterday, pence who was also very angry about a number of the details in our report, details that have not been challenged, and the fact is, pence did talk to tillerson. tillerson then came out and gave that extraordinary news conference, a man who does not welcome contact with the news media, having that news conference and praising the president and trying to get things right. >> you're the best, andrea. how do you figure out who's wrong and who's right? is it a bad marriage? what do you call it? >> it's definitely a bad marriage. it's a relationship that i don't think can be repaired. but divorce is not really an option right now, because according to most people in and

outside of the white house, political advisers, the politics of losing his secretary of state right now, when he's already lost his national security adviser, two communications directors, his press secretary, his chief of staff, i mean, they have been -- tom price, the hhs secretary, he does not have a homeland security secretary, because john kelly moved to the white house, so there's an acting skroact ing secretary there. nobody has been nominated yet. there's just too many vacancies. and the optics of losing your top cabinet official, the secretary of state, fourth in line to the presidency, as you're preparing for a major asian trip, as you're preparing to announce a new iran policy next week, and that you're facing a continuing north korea nuclear crisis, would just be appalling, for all the criticisms of rex tillerson, the assumption in most foreign policy circles, what bob corker is saying, is best that he stay and that he and mattis and kelly try to shore up the white house

going through all of these crises. >> andrea, hang in there. let's go to carol lee, who broke this story about the moron charge the other day. carol, an old phrase in washington is the walls have ears. meaning, like, when you say sympathetic that gets heard, you seemed to get the story first, what got heard. this fury that the president seems -- one of the most normal things i've heard about donald trump is he doesn't like being called a moron. >> no, but who does, you know? >> right! >> he certainly does not like being called a moron. he didn't like that -- he didn't like the story. he was very angered by it. he spent a lot of time venting about it, according to our reporting. and he actually wasn't quite satisfied with rex tillerson's statement, because he didn't give a full-throated denial that he denied that he said that the president was a moron. so, i mean, i agree with andrea, who's been reporting on this extensively, you know, it's hard to see this relationship getting

repaired. it looks like they may try to muddle through, for a little while, but these two have never really managed to hit it off. and i think at this point, it's very much in doubt that they will, in the future. >> let's bring in some other reporters. glenn, everybody time i see the president, i don't know who puttha thoput those pictures together, i see nikki haley. is she in the on-deck circle. they want her to have a little bit more training before she becomes secretary of state? >> there have been rumors to that effect. there was a rumor that swept about seven to ten days ago that he was dissatisfied with nikki haley. i will underscore what carol says. i don't think this is a president who particularly likes being called a noteworthy. but it is also noteworthy that sarah huckabee sanders again did not completely deny the charge. >> how could she? she wasn't there. these denials don't mean anything unless you get the secretary of state to say, i didn't say it or i take it back. >> but it is -- look, heather nauert deniedied it yesterday -

>> was she there? >> exactly. >> tillerson himself hasn't yet put out a statement denying it. >> these denials mean nothing. they're flackery. the president of the united states is head of our foreign policy, the secretary of state is our foreign minister. they are at odds and personally so at odds. >> yeah, when sarah huckabee sanders said today that it's ridiculous to presume that the president could undercut his cabinet secretary, that's not ridiculous at all. that's exactly what trump did multiple times. i mean, he basically cut tillerson off at the knees on the middle east diplomacy surrounding the gulf breach with qatar and cut tillerson off at the knees about north korea. that may have been tillerson fault. tillerson misunderstood what the president wanted him to do and say and went out and said something that the president hasn't approved, then that's on him. but it's certainly possible for the president to undercut the diplomacy that tillerson's trying to do and he's done it

multiple times. >> trump is spitballing his foreign policy. i'm not going to cut to north korea. i'm going to cut off and decertify the iranian arms deal. it doesn't seem like he's sitting, studying physical therapy the papers. he's got an entire state department studying this stuff and ignores them. >> that's the problem. you want to know the frustration down in foggy bottom rests around the fact that that is a state department that has largely been marginalized since day one. you have heads of state that come into this country that the state department didn't know were here. they didn't get -- >> i like it when he goes to another country and meets with our ambassador. >> right. this was the beginning of the relationship totally set by the president himself. at a certain point, it is expected that an individual like a rex tillerson is going to have enough. or have too much of it. and i think this is what -- >> he's a rich mad, but a proud man. another tweet this morning by the president was aimed at the news media, no surprise here, blame the messenger. quote, why isn't the senate intel committee looking into the fake news network this our

country to see why so much of our news is just made up, fake. president trump frequently demonized the media or at least a large part of the media with a couple of glaring exceptions, of course. let's watch his exceptions. >> for the most part, honestly, these are really, really dishonest people. and they're bad people. and i really think they don't like our country. i really believe that. "the washington post" is terrible. the failing "new york times," which is like so bad. or cnn, which is so bad, and so pathetic, and their ratings are going down. it was fake news, it was a totally phony story. thank you very much. it was made up. it was made up by nbc. they just made it up. where are you from? >> bbc. >> okay. there's another beauty. and hannity. how good is hannity? and "fox & friends" in the morning is the best show and it's the absolute most honest show. >> yeah, steve duke is the new walter cronkite. i figured that out a long time

ago. let me get to ann on the other reporters. it seems like trump doesn't care opinion from me or anybody else. he cares about straight front-page news reporting. it drives him crazy. he hates facts. >> i would love to think he was reading the front pages every day. he certainly gets a lot of his news from what's on television. and he processes information visually and, i think, on a gut level. and if he likes what he hears, if he thinks it has a positive spin about what he's doing, he likes it. and he -- and if he doesn't, he blasts with equal opportunity at anybody who has -- >> what do you -- glen, what do you think of this big investigation about the intel community? i think you said earlier today, you wouldn't mind if he did investigate -- so what? >> it would be hideous from a constitutional perspective, but i think there are a lot of reporters in that briefing room who wouldn't mind having the entire panoply of west wing staff being forced under oath to testify all of these stroioriese incorrect. because you know why? they're not. they're totally true. >> andrea, you work for a major

news organization i'm lucky to serve in a different capacity. the seriousness that the news industry at a high level like nbc and "the new york times," is so serious and so grown-up. and to be criticized by this president who says things like obama is an african, says things that don't mean anything, is an absurdity. >> well, we have systems at all of our news organizations have systems, have people in charge of standards, in charge of legal review. everything gets reviewed. and mistakes can happen, everyone is human. but we double and triple-source. but to compare that with the false statements that are made on a daily basis by government officials is pretty astounding. and i do think it undermines the credibility and in this -- in this environment, it is directed at, i think, undermining the credibility of the news media, particularly on the russian probe, because that will, i think he believes and is probably having its effect make a lot of people not respect the

findings of either robert mueller, the committees, or the reporting. >> that's the plan. let me go to carol on this. carol, i think that i've watched now for three days now, ever since your reporting on the word "moron," which maybe isn't the most important thing ever reported, but it is fascinating the way nobody has denied it. not huckabee sanders, not the secretary of state, not the president. any one of them could have come out with their mouths and say, he didn't call me a moron. they haven't. >> that's right. and that's because it's true. the only two people who have denied are r.c. hammons -- >> who doesn't know. >> well, who also, you know, had -- said something to nbc that the vice president's office said was absolutely, patently false. and secretary tillerson and the press secretary at the state department. they're the only two people who have come out and denied that secretary tillerson said that. so i think, you know, the secretary had multiple opportunities yesterday to knock that down and he very specifically chose not to.

>> the next time the president talks about sicking investigators on the news media, the prominent news media, i think we should all recall his friends, enemies, critics and neutrali neutralists, if there are any, how he was sending down investigators, top investigators out to hawaii to check into the president's birth certificate. and they were developing what he said, some very interesting information. all nonsense. made up. that's the fake news coming from the president. anyway, "the new york times" added to the reporting on the relationship between the president and his secretary of state. according to "the new york times," aides and trump associates who have been in the room with them said mr. tillerson's body language, eye rolling, and terse expressions left little doubt that he disapproves of mr. trump's approach. mr. trump, they said, has noticed how mr. tillerson slouches in his presence, slouches, particularly when he disagrees with a decision. when overruled, mr. tillerson often says, "it's your deal," to the president's irritation. i love this stuff! this is high school crap!

if i were trump, i would be mad. in any way he can, he shows disrespect. >> i had four people -- the "it's your deal" thing apparently drives trump completely nuts. >> it implies bonehead. >> well, if you want to go at that, it's your deal. >> what do you expect from a die who makes a big deal about being a dealmaker. and so, again, this gets back to the earlier point that tillerson has had enough. he's fed up and he's pushing back. and i think he's pushing himself out the door. >> let me get back to ann. you were a solid reporter. and i'm thinking, this is almost like going into a funhouse mirror situation. >> i certainly never covered any secretary of state like rex tillerson, any president like tru trump, or any relationship like the two of them have. it's completely -- it's completely new and it's completely bonkers. i mean, you can't do diplomacy like this. i mean, you can do foreign policy, but you can't do diplomacy. >> yeah, the north koreans are laughing at us. no, that's too much. i won't go that far.

thank you all. congratulations to all the amazing reporters, print guys, and andrea, of course, and carol, who's not a print person anymore. she's one of ours. but doing great! doing great! >> thanks, chris. anyway, coming up after las vegas, will congress finally act on guns or at least on these things that make guns into those tommy guns? we're going to talk tonight with sol key republicans and how they might open up to action. they're actually talking about actually doing something about these bump stocks that turn semi-automatics into, well, tommy guns. and we're going to talk about that. so let's find out how serious those republicans are? are they do something, but are they afraid it's a slippery slope to gun control. plus, breaking news tonight in the russian investigation. more of that coming tonight. a lot that nbc news can report that investigators from special counsel robert mueller's office have interviewed, catch this, christopher steel. they got to him in london. the british spy who compiled the dossie dossier. i wonder if they ask about the bathroom. the men's room, i'm sorry, the

bedroom. and voters are very pessimistic about the direction of the country as a whole. who do they blame? the man in the white house. big surprise. finally, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you won't like it. this is "hardball," where the action is. is laughing because she's listening to a hilarious audiobook on audible. and this woman is laughing because she's pretending her boss's terrible story is funny. still actually laughing. no longer making a human noise. experience the comedy, not your commute. dial star-star-audible on your smartphone to start listening today. i'm not a customer, but i'm calling about that credit scorecard. give it. sure! it's free for everyone. oh! well that's nice! and checking your score won't hurt your credit. oh! i'm so proud of you. well thank you. free at at discover.com/creditscorecard, even if you're not a customer. we're on a mission to show drip coffee drinkers, it's time to wake up to keurig.

wakey! wakey! rise and shine! oh my gosh! how are you? well watch this. i pop that in there. press brew. that's it. so rich. i love it. that's why you should be a keurig man! full-bodied. are you sure you're describing the coffee and not me? according to a series of new reports, russian hackers stole highly sensitive spying tools from u.s. government contractor. anyway, the white house journal says the stolen material includes, quote, details of how the u.s. penetrates foreign computer networks and defends against cyber attacks. according to the experts, the theft is one of the most significant security breaches in recent years. the contractor who worked for the nsa put the highly classified material on his home computer. the russian hackers were then able to access his computer, because he used a popular anti-virus software made by a russian-based company. that was smart. unbelievable. well be right back. listen up, h. you too, unnecessary er visits.

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welcome back to "hardball." despite republican efforts this week to put off a debate on gun control, pressure is mounting on congress to do something in the wake of sunday's deadly massacre. and now there are signs of a potential bipartisan consensus in congress. at least when it comes to these bump stocks, the gun accessory that effectively turns a semiautomatic weapon into a machine gun right out of the 1930s. anyway, those rapid-fire devices were among the 12 rifles found in steephen paddock's hotel roo where he massacred 58 people from his hotel room in roughly ten minutes. here's what speaker paul ryan said today when he talked about how he was going to allow legislation addressing the sale of bump stocks. >> i didn't even though what they were until this week. and i'm an avid sportsman. so i think we're quickly coming up to spieeed with what this is. fully automatic weapons have been banned for a long time. this allows you to take a

semi-automatic and turn it into a fully automatic, so clearly that's something we have to look in. >> why do you have to say you're an avid sportsman when you're talking about automatic weapons? today the nra released its first statement since the massacre in las vegas. quote, the nra believes the devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. but they're calling on the atf to review whether bump stocks comply with existing law. according to nbc news, the atf has already concluded that bump stocks do not violate currently federal, so it's all nonsense from the nra. i'm joined now by ed rendell of pennsylvania and columbia law professor, alex carter. you have rallied against this in pennsylvania. do you think paul ryan is serious about anything that sounds like a slippery slope to the nextr nra? >> i think the heat is so great

from around the country people are saying, this is it, enough is enough, that they're going to throw us a bone. bump stocks, solving that problem by making them illegal, will solve maybe 1% of the problem. what i hope our democrats do in some progressive republicans do is amend that bill and make them vote on reinstating the assault weapons ban, which never should be allowed to sunset, because semiautomatic weapons, if that guy had semiautomatic as opposed to automatic, if he had no bump stocks, he would have hit at least 400 people, maybe not 600. 400 people is 400 too many. secondly, we ought to put universal background checks, which you pointed out on your show last night, 90% of the country believes ought to be enforced. and we ought to limit magazines to ten shots a magazine. imagine if that guy had to reload after every ten shots. imagine the difference it would have made! and i don't care if they say that it won't stop it from happening. sure, it won't stop it from happening. but it would get the death count down to dramatically. it would get the wounded and injured down dramatically. and one person is too many.

let's get real in this country. you don't hunt with semiautomatic or automatic weapons. you don't need a magazine that has more than ten shots to shoot a deer or an elk. let's get real. let's do something to protect our people. >> in a letter to the editor of "new york times" today i happened to read today, alex wrote today, alex carter, she's a professor of law at columbia jump journalism. you have to understand why this shooting happened. it's much more important than it happened. anyway, find ow how it happened, not why this guy did it. when we feel we understand why someone did something terrible we can blame that why and understand how we are separate from it. the critical question, the more difficult one is to ask is how? how does someone like stephen paddock obtain 47 guns and bring 23 of them into a hotel suite? professor carter, i love that argument, because it's the heart of this issue. if you can hand out 100 automatic weapons to somebody or modify 100 automatic weapons, someone is going to use one in a crazy way. it's just a number of -- it's about selection and random

nature and the way people are. if guns get in the hands of people, someone's going to use them. we've got to figure out how to keep the guns out of the hands of people. your thoughts? >> absolutely. asking why is i think at best a distraction and at worst a diversion from the real issue, which is how are we going to prevent this and other tragedies like this from happening again? and even if, you know, some of the sensible regulations that the governor proposed, right, universal background checks or even an assault ban or a limit on the total number of guns that one can purchase, even if it wouldn't have prevented all of the carnage in this prior incident, it might prevent the next one. isn't that reason enough? >> well, it sounds like your republican slrlawmakers have vod varying agrees of support on these bump stocks. senator ron johnson of wisconsin told politico, if that actually gets on the senate floor, i would vote for it. congressman bill flores of texas told the hill, i think they should be banned.

and senator tom rooney of florida said that trump needs to take the lead on this bump stock issue. he's the only one that can. sarah huckabee sanders also signaled today that the white house is open to regulating or banning bump stocks. here she is. >> does the president support legislation that would ban or regulate bump stocks? >> so we're certainly open to that moving forward, but we want to be part of that conversation as it takes place in the coming days and weeks. >> governor, let's talk about the politics. there's so many stays, as i said last night from new york, all the way across the middle of the country, until you get there, like california, that are pro-gun. pennsylvania is well known to be pro-gun. yet you've been elect eed twu e governor in that state by pretty comfortable margins by being a gun control guy. how do you do it? >> and chris, remember, pennsylvania is the second highest number of nra members of any state in the country. and by the way, the majority of nra members don't agree with the nra on a number of positions, as we know from universal background checks.

look, i won three elections where the nra was against me by ten points, 10 points, and 21 points. those are considered landslides, particularly in a purple state like ours. the nra is a paper tiger. what they do is they pick on one state representative or one congressman, and they pour all their money into that one race and defeat that one person and say, see, we can do it to you. but if everyone stands up and has the guts and the courage of their convictions and everyone votes the right way, the nra will be powerless to do anything about it. and any senator, democrats included, any senator who doesn't support this common sense gun legislation ought to be ashamed of themselves. how much more does it take? what will it take to get congress to act? >> professor, i looked at the republican platform today. you don't have to be partisan. i know you're a professional. but the republican platform protects magazines, it protects ar-15s. it protects everything that even discussed. they haven't gotten to this bump thing yet. this thing that changes the gun into an automatic.

but they clearly, when they hear something's coming their way, they want to put it in their platform and say, leave it alone. they are fanatics. the republican party, as a party, is a fanatic party on guns. >> well, chris, last i checked, the constitution and not the platform of either party was the supreme law of the land. and we know that other constitutional rights, like the right to free speech, are subject to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. >> well, you know what the republicans say in their platform? that the right to bear arms proceeds the constitution. it's a god-given sort of theological right. they treat this like religion, governor. i don't know how to explain it. it's a religious, essential notion to them that everybody should have any kind of gun they want. anybazooka, a tank, they never put a limit on it, ever. >> it's ridiculous. and i have a message to anyone out there who's a common sense person. don't get fooled by this

willingness to do something about bump stocks. bump stocks will take care of 1% of the problem. we need them to do something about assault weapons, semiautomatic assault weapons, we need them to do something about the capacity of magazines and we need universal background checks. come on, america, you know what's right. this is a time to stand up and give them a loud and clear and deafening message. >> thank you very much, governor rendell of pennsylvania and professor alex carter. i loved your letter to the editor today. and i really tuned in on it. that's why you're here tonight. thank you so much. >> thank you, chris. i appreciate it. up next, breaking news in the russian investigation. nbc news has confirmed that special counsel mueller's team has interviewed, has done it, the british spy behind the trump dossier. they've gotten to christopher steel, even if the senate committee hasn't. this is "hardball," where the action is. this is a power plant. this is tim barckholtz. that's me! this is something he is researching at exxonmobil: using fuel cells to capture carbon emissions at power plants.

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welcome back to "hardball." nbc news tonight confirmed that investigators working for special counsel robert mueller have interviewed former british intelligence officer chris fooer steel. that's according to -- that's according to a source close to steel himself. steel is the author of the now-infamouses s ddossier on president donald trump, that alleges that the president and his associates engaged in a well-developed conspiracy of cooperation, closed quote, with russian intelligence during the 2016 election. it comes after the senate intelligence committee yesterday said they had been unable to reach steel, but suggests that they had corroborated parts of

his dossier. i'm now joined by ken delaney. i think trump won't like to hear this. he'll see how serious mueller is taking this, even to the point of arranging a meeting with christopher steel. what do we know? >> i think this is really going to get under donald trump's skin, chris, you're absolutely right. because trump and the white house have been announcing this dossier, above all other things in this russian investigation, from the beginning of his presidency. you'll recall his first news conference, he took time out to denounce this dossier. and you know, what most people probably remember about this are the salacious sexual allegations about trump, that he absolutely denies. but as you just said, there is much more in this document. this document lays out a road map for what it says is a conspiracy of collusion between the trump campaign and russia. and much of it is unproven. for example, it says that paul manafort sort of coordinated between russian intelligence and the trump campaign. that is not proven, although paul manafort is under investigation. but there are some things that have been corroborated. i mean, richard berg, chairman

of the senate intelligence committee said in so many ways yesterday, that they were able to rebuild the timeline of the dossier, parts of it, but they won't tell us which parts, because it's classified. so this is a document that investigators from both the congress and now we know special counsel robert mueller are taking very seriously and the white house doesn't like it. >> how about steele's credibility, christopher steele. is he considered a crackpot, a fringy, or someone who is a real serious spy? >> not in the least. my intelligence sources tell me this guy is a serious person. he was stationed in moscow. he worked for the british secret intelligence service, mi6. he's known as a russian expert and he has credibility. moreover, the fbi worked with steele in their investigation of corruption in international soccer before he began working on the trump thing. and then the fbi was prepared to pay steele to allow him to continue his fact-gathering on the trump/russia stuff. that didn't come through. but the fbi has been working with steele all along. and now we know that mueller has some additional questions for him. >> is this going to be like he meets -- if mueller meets with the guy, he gives him a

template, a blueprint for what to check out. in other words, he could give him a guideline as what to look for. >> i think that has already happened. what this would be is probably follow-up questions. there are things that the fbi can't answer, wants to understand better, where steele got it, how -- you know, what's the timeline around a particular meeting. and that's probably the kind of thing they're asking now. because don't forget, they've had this steele information since last july, some of it. so it forms the basis of the fbi's investigation, in many ways. >> do you ever wonder what's in bob mueller's attache case? that is a heavy, heavy bag. and he walks around with it, like it balances him. i keep wondering, what has he got in that bag, that trump -- look at him. he casually, like it's got something heavy in there. and if i were trump, i would be scared to death of that case. >> this is a marine combat veteran. i don't know if he's the kind of guy to write books, but if he ever does a book deal some day when this is all over, i'll be first in line to buy it. >> looks like a pro to me.

thanks to ken dilanian. new reporting on just how furious president trump was after learning that secretary tillerson, his secretary of state, his foreign minister called him a moron. you're watching "hardball." when you're close to the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment? if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. with taltz, up to 90% of patients had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. in fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. do not use if you are allergic to taltz. before starting you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you are being treated for an infection or have symptoms. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. inflammatory bowel disease can happen with taltz. including worsening of symptoms. serious allergic reactions can occur.

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welcome back to "hardball." let's go back to our top story tonight. it's a doozer reporting tonight from nbc news that president trump was furious, that's the word, upon learning that his secretary of state had called him a moron. the vice president was also fuming about that and talked to tillerson about it, leading to that extraordinary news conference yesterday where tillerson had to come out and face the music. joe hoebel is a former democratic congressman from pennsylvania and the author of "fighting for the progressive center in the age of trump." susan page and ested herndon with the "boston globe."

i guess you remember high school, you're closer to it than i am, but this fun and games. the president of the united states and his foreign minister fighting over name calling and now president trump talking about it's the calm before the storm, maybe more coming, maybe a firing tonight at, who knows? >> we've seen this throughout the presidency. we've seen name calling. we've seen these little fights between cabinet members. and i think there's something new to this word "moron." we have rex tillerson, the secretary of state, in front of other white house officials, other state department officials, going so far as to say that about the president, in a public setting. that seems like an escalation. and that really speaks to, i think, the depths at which there is real in-fighting, real inability to govern amongst this white house. >> of all the gross public figures in our lifetime, susan, and me, the guy who uses the worst words from other women, women are ugly, they're bleeding from their face, they're sweating, they're little marco, they're short. every physical thing you can go after a person on, and now he's upset someone called them a

moron? >> wouldn't that be a firing offense in any other white house? and the only reason it's not a firing offense here is because they are concerned about what happens to u.s. foreign policy, to u.s. standing in the world. if tillerson -- >> are they that grown-up to worry about those things? >> i think the chief of staff kelly and i think defense secretary mattis and i think that's why they were getting together as nbc news just reported, to discuss how in the world they can go forward. does anybody in washington think tillerson will be secretary of state, say, by christmas? >> no. >> i don't think so. >> congressman, let's talk about politics and grown-up politics and, you're a political moderate to progressive guy. and it seems to me that this is a clown show. bluntly stated. and the only people that defend trump are those who are very right wing and very pro-trump. because all our polling shows two-thirds of the american people think we're heading the wrong direction right now. two-thirds. >> well, i think those two-thirds or those people that believe we're in the wrong direction think it about trump, not the country. he's divisive. he's insulting to people.

he can't get a program together. he hasn't drained -- >> why'd your state vote for him? >> that's a great question! >> i come from there, too, and i am stunned that a reasonable state, like pennsylvania, is not a right-wing state, voted for trump. >> i think hillary lost touch with her working class roots. the party's working class roots. i think that's why she lost pennsylvania. >> let's talk about the scary stuff, north korea. because we don't know. trump is a little unsteady, but kim i don't thijong-un is reall and you wonder if the combination of these two could cause trouble. >> and you wonder why if the economy is getting better, why are they still so concerned about the direction of the parm country. >> because they read the papers. >> because the secretary of state calls the president a moron and we seem to be steaming towards a confrontation with north korea. so i think it is notter rational for people to be worried about exactly what's going to be ahead. >> instead, you know, we have problems with north korea on the nuclear front, you know, they're talking about building a weapon that could reach us, san francisco, or whatever on the coast, and now he wants to

reopen -- rip the scab off the iranian nuclear deal and get them building nuclear weapons again. it's like he wants a two-front war. it's crazy. >> because the president has always talked about unpredictability, but there can be a problem and a miscalculation, you want the north koreans, the iranians to know what they can expect from the president, from the white house. and when you have a president who's tweeting one thing, who's undercutting his secretary of state and the u.n. ambassador, that creates a problem in which what can these actor who is may be irrational, what can they expect from the white house? and if they can't, if they don't have a sense of -- if they don't have a sense of what to expect, then what do they do next? >> guess what's coming tonight. take a look at president trump, just moments ago, dining with the first lady, members of the military and their spouses, catch this. >> you guys know what this represents? maybe it's the calm before the storm. could be the calm before the

storm. >> iran, isis, or what? what storm, mr. president? >> we have the world's great military people here in this room, i will tell you that. and we're going to have a great evening. thank you all for coming. >> what's the calm before the storm, susan? >> i think he might be talking about coming to a decision on the iran nuclear deal and decertifying, because that's coming up next week, we know there are final meetings at the white house dealing with that, maybe that's what's on his mind. >> he wants a storm? >> i don't though. the real answer is, i don't know, but if you want to speculate about what he could be referring to -- >> the one thing he said during i like. i'll admit, i like the infrastructure, because i think we need to rebuild this country, including mass transit, fast transit across the country and also stupid wars, let's stop him. and here he is opening up the war again with iran. >> it's crazy. and he's evaluating that deal all along. this is just about stopping iran from getting nukes. he's complaining about the terrorism, and he should, but he's talking about apples and

comparing them to oranges. >> that would require he read the document and he hasn't. thank you. the the roundtable is sticking with us and up next, these people will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball," where the action. you nervous? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

tha...oh, burnt-on gravy?ie. ...gotta rinse that. nope. no way. nada. really? dish issues? throw it all in. cascade platinum powers through even burnt-on gravy. nice. cascade. wear back with the "hardball" roundtable. joe, tell me something i don't know. >> well, congress and the president have to get our fiscal house in order. and if they don't, if we can't come up with a sustainable budget, we're not going to be able to invest in people or grow the economy. >> and we're about $900,000 in

deficit right now. >> it's a terrible $200 trillion national debt. >> in a good economy. >> 56% of americans say they want the congress elected next area to confront trump -- >> i saw that. >> including one out of five republicans. >> so they want -- so the democrats look healthy right now. >> they do. if they'll vote. if they show up. >> the door is open. >> yeah. >> you were mentioning bump stocks and certainly, that legislation could come banning them, but that's actually helping their sales right now. >> i heard. >> the company has sold out wall to wall on them -- >> isn't that heartwarming? >> and they are triple the price. >> all the people are running out to get guns, turn their guns into automatic weapons, so they can, what, be able to shoot automatic weapons. anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. this is "hardball," where the action is. that's a whole different ballgame. i was in shock. i am very proud of the development of drugs that can prevent the rejection and prevent the recurrence of the original disease. i never felt i was going to die.

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former u.s. congressman joe

hoffa, susan page, herndon. democrats after a harsh reality check in 2016 and they have a tough battle to win back american voters and the congress and the presidency. "fighting for the progressive center in the age of trump," he writes progressives need to fight with policies that are socially liberal and fiscally responsible. he warn progressive need to have the courage of our convictions. we must be willing to defend our records and define and explain our accomplishments, if we don't the right wing will do it for us. i would have thought that was common sense. then i saw donald trump talking about punishing women for having an abortion and winning. so explain. how do they win with that dogma? >> well, that's not why he won. >> he did. >> he won. >> he did say that. >> yes, he did. but he promised political change. and he promised to end economic stagnation. neither of those things has happened. we still have the swamp in washington. it's just different people paddling around in the muck.

and the economic stagnation and income inequality is greater than ever. that's why he's in trouble. that's why the republicans i think are going to get shellacked in the 2018 election. >> that's what i'm asking about. john, you can jump in here, susan. republicans won not because rich people voted for them, there aren't that many, but regular people voted for them, because they thought this guy was on their side. now we see the tax bill, excuse me, the estate tax, you have to have $11 million to give your kids for that to help you out. $11 million, that's not the average joe or jane. >> and people bothered to turn out to vote for him. there are any number of democratic voters who didn't turn out to vote. >> why not? >> i think they didn't feel energized. >> by obama but not hillary? >> maybe they weren't crazy about trump bus thet weren't crazy about hillary clinton and a lot of voters stayed home. 2018, who's going to have the energy? i don't think you can tell right now. i don't think this is a slam dunk for democrats. it's an opportunity for

democrats. >> back to joe. i look at all these suburban districts like fitzpatrick, bucks county, i look at dover county, i go, whoa. how come all these suburban areas where they are pro-choice, and they are pro-gay rights, they're all moderate on social issues, are voting for -- you start, why are they voting for trump? these people are not right-wingers. >> i think i would be remiss to say he also honed in on racial resentment. and we look at what types of people voted for him. that also often falls along racial lines. and how people feel about other groups. and so you can't separate, i don't think, the economics of donald trump, which certainly promised to form a populism. but for that social rhetoric he homed in on, that's a key portion of why people voted for him. >> did he pick up on edge issues? >> yeah, he's still doing it. he sends out dog whistles to the republican base. he did that on puerto rico. he mentioned, well, they're not quite working on it. >> he worked las vegas a lot

more. >> not working hard enough in puerto rico. >> ungrateful. >> have you ever heard an american president criticize american citizens in the middle of a natural disaster? unbelievable. >> i don't think he educated himself to puerto rico being part of america, he made it sound like a distant land. "fighting for the progressive center in the age of trump." i want to thank you, susan page, as always, ustead, you guys are great. to most, he's phil mickelson pro golfer.

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"trump watch." thursday, october 5th, 2017. the percentage of americans who believe the country under donald trump is headed in the wrong direction has jumped 21% since he took office. it's now up to 64%. that's nearly two-thirds of the country. what about the other one-third? you wonder about people who claim things are getting better. what precisely could they be referring to? he's got a foreign policy people in complete chaos. the secretary of state calling him a moron. a lot of people around trump wishing the man who called him that would drop the insults and get out of town himself. what about the president? he's out to kill the nuclear deal with iran and wants to end all communication with north korea. for whatever reason he seems to want to raise the temperature on relations with both countries. what's the plan, stan? at home trump seems equally without blueprints. he's pushed an end to obamacare with all the committees pratt and keen collect of elmer fudd chasing bugs bunny. with the same zero effect.

nothing has gotten done. on tax reform, he's going in one direction, his team the other. talking about keeping the lower rate at 10% rather than raising it to 12%, as if that's going to make poor people like him. he has yet to say what loopholes he's going to eliminate except to suggest he's going after taxes that tax the most so he can tax more, sounds fair. name an area he's got his act together. he goes to san juan and throws out paper towels. he goes to vegas and refuses to even mention a word about gun violence. isn't that the reason he was there? again, back to the question. who are these people who think things are going swimmingly? have they been down so long it looks like up? what about the hopes even i had that he'd do something about rebuilding this country, getting serious about catching up with the rest of the world on mass transit? what about the more desperate hope i had that he would end the stupid wars? he promised to. now we're back in afghanistan big-time. he wants to heat things up with iran. why can't he at least get two things done, even his skeptics

had hoped he would? right direction? get a compass. this is "hardball." thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> the issue of collusion is still open. >> the white house snaps on russia. >> more importantly than the president being frustrated i think the american people are frustrated. >> tonight, the pushback from trump world as sources tell nbc news senate intel has corroborated parts of the steel dossier. >> a thing like that should have never been written. plus -- >> could you address the main headline of this story that you call the president a moron? >> new details on president trump's furious eruption in the wake of the nbc news moron report. >> it was fake news. then, is the nra really making a concession on gun regulations? and an "all in" conversation. >> i don't want anyone to use our tools to undermine democracy. >> as facebook comes to