i think to try to create something from that, that the congress woman is doing is, frankly, appalling and disgusting. >> the white house fights back at the notion that president trump is putting politics into the deaths of american soldiers. we will break down the very latest to his reaction to the deadly ambush to u.s. troops overseas, amid growing questions about the mission, itself, meanwhile the president was for a bipartisan health care proposal before he was against it. the last time between the two polar opposite position, about 20 hours, good morning, everyone, it's thursday, october 19th. with us, we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, mark halperin, former fbi special agent and msnbc contributor clint watts and national contributor reporter for nbc news carol lee. joe, before we dive into the

news, give it a try, frame the morning for us. >> well, i think a lot of people are actually saying what you had the white house spokesperson yesterday the politicizing of any soldier's death is aappa aappalling and disgusting. that's exactly what donald trump did when he brought up general john kelly's son a few days ago and this has continued for the past several days. it's unfortunate, but it does show you the state of washington under donald trump. also, another telling story yesterday, one that actually has a significance for one-sixth of the economy has to do with some of these health care reforms that a bipartisan group of republicans and democrats on the hill are trying to pass t. president said he's for it. he must have talked to steve bannon. now the president says he's against it. we have a lot of polls, a lot of

back and forth. mainly the catch word is chaos. chaos. chaos that continues to grip this administration and because of that, this country. >> you always wonder what they're actually selecting from. >> that often is the case. we will get to that controversy surrounding the president's handling those four servicemen killed in action and the growing question as to how and why they died in the first place. first this new poll, the prospect of going to war, survey monkey online poll, 72% of americans are worried the u.s. will become engaged in a major war in the next four years. 26% are not concerned. that's marginally better than july. when it comes to threats at home split on what poses the

immediate danger to the united states, their% say terrorists, 34% say a nuclear strike. only 2% believe a military threat is the immediate danger. on expanding the nuclear ars fal, americans are split and 43% are opposed. according to nbc news survey monkey online poll, 54% believe north korea poses a greater and immediate threat more than russia, china or iran. >> that is up 13 points since july. when it comes to the american response to north korea, 64% favor diplomacy over military action up five points from july. on iran, 55% say they disapprove

the way president trump handled that country. joe, what do you think? >> well, willie geist, you had candidate donald trump saying it was going to be tough and fearless, that he was going to get us out of war, that he was going to be more responsible and people across the world, dictators would respect us because he had a strong hand there, you look at these number, americans have jitters, they've got i mean over 70% of americans concerned about nuclear war. you've got over 50% concerned about north korea. you can go up and down. they disagree with what he's doing when it comes to north korea. they disagree with what he's doing with just about everything it seems when it comes to foreign policy. >> this lines up, as you said, joe, with what i hear as you travel around the country with all the noise created around

politics and often around donald trump's tweets about issues that concern him in that day, it's the issue with north korea and these numbers bear that out. i think some of his supporters have said until pos they wished he wouldn't tweet so much. when le has loose talk about new york and maybe his time has come, those threats of war certainly are concerning to the american people, less so i would say the minute to minute, day to day political noise surrounding the things he says in tweets. >> mark halperin, you have to go back to the cuban missile crisis 55 years i guess to find an america as concerned about a major war, concerned about a nuclear war, these are height of cold war numbers. these are 1962 numbers. these are numbers we have fought seen certainly in the past 20 years. >> you'd have to go back further than that to find an

administration whose upper reaches of the national security team, adviser, chief of staff, secretary of defense are military men who historically have not been as willing or eager to get america into an armed conflict. i find it difficult to discern what the strategy and there is rhetoric and day-to-day, one great man said day trading, it's hard to work with allies, threatening military action, it's hard to see where this goes rather than day-to-day whirling in waters. you see that in the poll numbers. >> especially, mika, when you have a president, a commander-in-chief, who under cuts his secretary of state who is trying to avert a nuclear showdown daying, hey, secretary of state, are you wasting your time, there is only one thing that's going to work here. it's going to be war. actually, he said, you'll find

out. but he's waving the impression that it's only a war a. guy who is saying before, we should use our nuclear weapons. again, there is a good reason for americans to be concerned. i have been shocked by a lot of things. i've heard people say, mike barnical and i were at a baseball game a few weeks ago, a guy said to us, he said, well, you know, i never thought i walled say this, but there is a chance that this country could be obliterated in a nuclear war and this was an educated top executive and you have those fears creeping through america pause donald trump has such an unsteady hand in the white house. >> you know, joe, it's interesting. you bring up the contrast between okay 1962, the cuban missile crisis, 55 years ago t. governance of this country then

and the constituency that they were dealing with, the people of the united states, we are surrounded with two worse, world war ii and korea, both wars, so millions and millions of americans few the cost of war. today, very few people know the cost of war and there has been an inability or an unwillingness just in this administration and the past administrations to explain what we're involved with here. we're involved in a global war on terror that dependant on september 11th 2001. it has continued for all these years and will continue for many more years. it's a generational war. yet it has never truly been explained to our citizens, to to you, to me, to all of us. >> while the president's reaction to the loss of four american troops comes under scrutiny, there is also the critical question of what went

so wrong during that military mission in niger two weeks ago, the pentagon has now sent a team of specialists as a part of this inquiry, they want to know if the u.s. forces had adequate, protective equipment. was there enough intelligence ahead of the mission? and what was the response to the ambush? one official says the amount of confusion during and after the mention was quote the. the body of the fourth american soldier wasn't found until nearly two days after the ambush. and to add to that confusion, it's still unclear, who flew the medevac helicopter after the u.s. attack. the u.s. military first said it was the french military, then the u.s. military, now it may have been a u.s. contractor, now the chairman of the senate armed services in the john mccain is demanding answers, telling reporters the administration has not been up front about what

happened. carol lee, what are you hearing about this? >> reporter: well, mika, there are so many questions about what happened here and it's all getting covered, murred by this fight the president has decided he wanted to pick with the families of these victims and i think what you will see here if you look at just john mccain, if you remember when there was raid in yemen and there were questions raised about that, the white house really pushed back on senator mccain and basically said it was unpatriotic for anyone to question this raid and what happened. i don't think you will see that with this. because, one, it's become so front and center. two, i think there are lessons learned from the way the white house and yemen went. the families have questions, there's plenty of reporting that has questions. this will be something the white house is financial to have to

answer for. >> which, of course, clint, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. that's one of the reasons the president didn't talk about this, it appears it was similar to the yemen raid. a lot of questions on why were they there? were they equipped? what happened that night and should it have been avoided? what can you tell us about this raid? >> what's interesting about it, we've seen an aggressive stance on our counter terrorism pushing and the fridge of our counter terrorism fight. i've worked on this area a little bit and you know we were worried decades ago, it's a remote area, it's hard to support. you talk about medevac and recovery and remember if there was an attack in benghazi we were talking about for years,

this isn't that dissimilar, where we had u.s. forces very much extended, out on the frontiers, did they have the right support? i think it will be very interesting in the days to report. >> so explain really quickly, why were they there? why would they have been in such a remote region? >> in this area, it's been a part of the counter terrorism initiative. it was to train and equip forces to do essentially counter terrorism and train up these forces, that's a special forces mission, if you look back the traditional special force mission is to build these indigenous force and go after threats way wide. it's sound like they were a part of a patrol working with niger's forces, i heard estimate i estimates up to 50 people

ambushing this special forces team and a very weak force and they were very much extended. so when we are talking about medevac, who flew the medevac mission, there are few resource when you are that far extended to recover or support troops doing that. >> clint, how usual is it for that fourth body, which turned out to be sergeant le david, he was left there two days. it's not often that you hear about that. >> you are talking very few americans out there running this operation, who are extended at tremendous distances, you are talking sometimes hundreds of kilometers between these pa patrols and the base. so i think once this happened and they couldn't locate that body, who is actually going out to do the search and recovery mission? it's so far extended into the desert. there is no resource toss do. that's two-day period to do. >> still a stun of questions about this. >> that brings us to the ongoing controversy of what the widow

said, congress woman frederica wilson was in the car when the president spoke to the widow of le david johnson told us what she heard in that car and the widow myesha johnson's reaction. >> he was like almost joking. he said, i guess you know, something to the fact, he knew what he was getting into when he signed up. but i guess it hurts, anywaifr, you know, just matter of factually that this is what happens. she was in tears. and she said, he didn't even remember his name. >> moments after that, president trump tweeted this. democrat congress woman totally fabricated what i said to the wife of a some who died in action. and i have proof. sad t. woman that raised him, his aunt was in the car and heard the president's call. she confirmed congress woman

wilson's account. jones johnson added, quote, president trump did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband. speaking from the white house, the president denied saying what he congress woman said he said. he elaborated open trump's quote proof of the accusation. zplmplts . >> i didn't say what that congress woman said. didn't say it at all. she knows it. she now not saying it. i did not say what she said. and i'd like her to make that statement again. because i did not say what she said. i had a very nice conversation with the woman, with the wife, who sound like a lovely woman. i did not say what the congress woman said and most people are too surprised to hear that. >> let her make her statement again and you will find out. let her make her statement again and you'll find out. >> what proof does president trump have when he says congress

woman wilson is not telling the truth? are there recordings of his phone call? >> no, but there were several people in the room from the administration that were on the call, including the chief of staff general john kelly. >> what do you say about her comment that he did not know as a wife the widow, said that the president did not know his name, he kept saying, your guy, your guy. >> just because the president said your guy, i don't think that doesn't mean he doesn't know his name t. president stated the hardest job he has is making calls like that. i think it is appalling what the congress woman has done and the way she's politicized this issue and the way that the is trying to make this about something that it isn't. >> so, joe, there are some people who suggested that congress woman wilson did not come into this with good will. she has called for the impeachment of president trump previously and she saw a moment

to make political hay out of this. to believe she is not telling the truth, you have to believe the woman who raised sergeant johnson is also not telling the truth. shelves in the car. johnson's wife, excuse me, his mother died when he was 5-years-old and raised by his aunt. so you have to disbelieve both of those account toss think they're lying. >> you also have to trust sarah huckaby sanders and donald trump to be telling the truth and they have a, the worst track record probably of any white house spokesperson and president in recent u.s. history. mark halperin, as you see the back and forth. i suspect this is exactly what you were worried about yesterday morning, that this sort of back and forth is unbecoming. nobody wins. it just gets uglier. you had sarah huckaby sanders once again throwing john kelly under the bus saying he was there. now he's i suspect they want him to come out and denigrate the

memory of this young man and his wife and everybody else. it's a no-win situation. you see claire mccaskill and other people there trying to get some policy done. this seems like this is a distraction that, obviously, yes, an offensive thing. so i think it's safe to presume donald trump is going to say offensive things. at this point, though, i think everybody in the media should tie a bow on this and move on to nuclear korea insuring health care for one-sixth of the economy. >> i agree with that. >> fixing health care. >> the media is filled today with stories of going back and interviewing families from the past who have gotten calls from presidents after they lost a loved one making the ultimate sacrifice, there is lots to scrutinize about the president. he started this.

the responsibility begins with him at the white house. but i just, this is a part of america, a part of the reality of a nation at war. i don't think scrutinizing the calls and asking for different accounts, putting the pressure on the president to give his version. i don't think it serves the national interest to have this discussion the way we have now. >> no. i agree, do think we have to talk about what happened over the past several days on this story. it would make more sense to talk about what the president did to the chief of staff and his wife and their daughter in law and their family. when the president dragged their son into the limelight for a chief shot open a radio show. he used his son's body to attack barack obama. by extension, other

predecessors, if there is going to be a discussion, i think that's the discussion to be had. exactly what is john kelly's respon response? >> i'm looking back at how we started the show this morning with the fears of the american people, fears of a war and i'm sorry, i would venture to think that a lot of people looking at that man speaking there in the white house and answering those questions does not seem fit for the job. that's the big picture still ahead this morning, we will get a rare look inside the secretive rocky nation with north korea with nbc news' keir simmons the president shifts his stance, we will get reaction from a number of as far as, bill

cassidy, tim caine and michael bennet. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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. so earlier we showed you those new polls that show american's fears about the prospects of war with north korea. nbc news' keir simmons in inside north korea now with a rare first-hand account. kir. >> reporter: mika if you are voting from the democratic people os republic of korea known to you and me as north korea, where we are quickly learning that president trump's rhetoric is having a profound effect. officials who we speak to quickly want to talk about a president trump and ask us about president trump. the vice foreign minister telling us that he believes the region is on the brink of war. if that is the case, then this,

perhaps, is the front line. we are right on the border here between the north and the south. i spoke to one lt. col. who is based here. i asked him, what do you think of president trump? he, quite plainly, said he believes that president trump is mentally ill and he was unequivocal in saying that he believes north korea could win a war with america. being no doubt that the senior officials here pay attention to what is being said in the u.s., up with telling many ethat he watches "morning joe" every day, specify, the segments about north korea, about the dprk the democratic people's republic of korea. i asked that official who is the father of a young son. i said to him, are you frightened for your family with what you are seeing happening right now? you know, mika what he said to

me, he said, all my life, i have felt threatened by america and if there is a war, a nuclear war, he said, he believes that north korea and the north koreans could survive. that mika. >> keir simmons, thank you very much. joe, a couple things that come to mind here, first of all, they're saying what the president is thinking, is president is mentally ill. it's considered inappropriate to say. >> i was going to say, mika, you have a mind melt with people in north korea. >> well, look, there is definitely a lot lacking from his personality. my biggest concern that i think appropriate to say is if you think about the missions we have, in places like niger and there is no way that president trump has the intellectual capacity to even understand what we are doing, which i think brings the possibility of war even closer to the war front. i think we're in a very dangerous place. i think the president is a very

dangerous man. because of his lacking. >> i think the -- i don't know that it has to do with his intelligence. >> i'm being kind. >> i don't know -- i don't think it even has to do with his mental state. i think it ha toss do with the fact he has never had any interest in policy. he has never had any interest in what's inside of a health care bill. he's never had any interest in diplomacy. he's never had any interest in what it takes to get out of a crisis like this. because he is the most intellectually curious person that's ever been in the white house. maybe meacham can tell us. maybe millard philmore stared at the ceiling fans when he was there. unless there is a story like that, willie, donald trump is so lacks intlel electrictual curiosity and does not want to know about policy, refuse toss

know about policy. i got to say as a side note, willie who did we say our demographic was going to be when we started "morning joe"? who did we say we wanted to watch the joe? >> big on the peninsula. >> we wanted to be, i said if we're big on the peninsula, if north korean leaders watch us, we'll be good in peoria, den years later, voilla, here we are. >> that was a little bizarre, wasn't it? you know the thing with donald trump is that he's played the insult game to great effect to become president of the united states. the problem now is mika suggested we're not talking about marco rubio's size or jeb bush's energy, we're talking about a leader who very much enjoys in kim jong-un being elevated to the top of the world stage by donald trump with his insults. it confirms everything they have been told in schools, south korea and america are conspireing. be ready for military action at any moment.

now they are being validated because president trump says these things, see, we have been telling you all along, get ready. >> if you are north korea, now is a perfect time to move forward, because on the world stage, instead of kim jong-un being the pariah, instead of kim jong-un being seen as the reckless, the reckless person who is destabilizing the world order, now you have people across the world looking at donald trump thinking he is the reckless one, destabilizing world order and you are starting to hear more and more people say, well, it seems kind of rational that north korea is racing towards a nuclear weapon, all because of donald trump's unsteady hand in the oval office. coming up, treasury secretary steve mnuchin warns of a significant drop in the stockmarket if tax reform fails.

we will talk to senator chris van hollen and the health care plan the president no longer supports. we are back in a moment. building a website in under an hour is easy with gocentral...

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there is confusion over health care on capitol hill this morning. senate republican lamar alexander and democrat patty murray have spent weeks working on a bipartisan bill to stabilize the insurance markets and on tuesday, the president entered the mix, first seemingly praising their approach, then later criticizing it. >> it is a short-term solution, so that we don't have this very dangerous little period, including dangerous period for insurance companies, by the way, for a period of one year, two years, we will have a very good solution, but we're going to have a great solution ultimately for health care. >> while i commend the bipartisan work by commanders alexander and murray. i do commend it. i think congress must find a solution to the obamacare mess instead of providing bailout

toss insurance companies. >> and yesterday morning, the president tweeted, i am supportive of lamar as a person and also of the process, but ki never support bailing out insurance companies who have made a fortune with o'care. this from the president and his press secretary later in the they. >> we will see the bipartisan and lamar alexander is working on it very hard from our side and if something can happen, that's fine. i want anything to enrich the insurance companies, right now the insurance companies are being enriched. >> we think that this is the step, a good step in the right direction. this president certainly supports republicans and democrats coming to get to work together, but it's not a full approach and we need something to go a little bit further to get on board. >> senator lamar alexander spoke with the president yesterday morning about the 'bill says trump has encouraged him on the

issue. >> you know, some people think the president doesn't know what he's doing around here. i don't think. that i give him full credit for engineering this bipartisan agreement. he told me he wanted to encourage me, he would review it, as i would expect the president to. >> the president ought to make up his mind. he keeps changing his mind on issue after issue and that shows an appalling lack of leadership. now he said today, it would benefit the ens companies. he ought to read the bill before he tweets. he's got to learn that if he is going to just be so afraid of the right wing whenever they bark, he runs away, he's not going to be able to govern. >> all right. with us now. we have a member after the appropriations and budget committee. senator chris van hollen of maryland, joe, what in the world? the flip-flop has been brought to a whole new level with this

president. does he even know what he's saying do you think? >> maybe it's because i suppose i have to suddenly admit, chris, i'm a former lawyer and also foreman politician. what the president actually said, he was keeping his options opened. this was let's just say the head leans on this flip-flop were a lot worse than the realities of it. i actually see in there senator, some positive operating rooms, he said positive things about the senators. it was positive about the bipartisan project and actually was talking responsibly in the rose garden in the beginning of the day talking about we need a year or two to make sure people don't get hurt while the overall process is reviewed. i'm not so discouraged by those words. what about you? >> well, he has been all over the map on this although, his most recent comment suggests that maybe he'll come on board. the problem is president has is

he made these misleading tweets, saying these cost-sharing payments go to the bottom lean, to the profits of the insurance companies, where, in fact, they're used to lower the deduction, to lower the co-pays and the deductibility of, for folks on insurance. so it actually benefits consumers and in fact as senator schumder indicated, it'swritten right there in the bill, not a penny of this can go to the profits of the insurance companies. frankly, if president trump has a better idea how to write that in the bill, we sort of said, go for it. so hopefully, he'll come on board, look, they spent eight months trying to blow up this affordable care act. we have a bipartisan agreement to stabilize the insurance markets. we should take it. there is what senator mccain said to do, work on the order, it's a good thing, it's a short-term thing, but it's important to do it now. >> senator, one of the provisions the conservatives would like to see changed from

the current bill is giving states even more flexibility. it offered different kind of plans, not necessarily expensive plans, cheaper plans, more flexible plans, conceptually, that something you would be willing to different more flexible on? >> actually, there is a provision in this agreement to do exactly that. it gives states an ability to expedite waivers under med kay, which is already very flexible, but it provides additional flexible and there are also provisions in here with respect to other kind of plans that can be offered. again, so long as they meet some basic consumer protection guarantees. i should say that, you know, while we've got this bipartisan agreement, we also have the budget on the floor of the senate today. and that budget proposes going back to a trillion dollar cut in medicaid, which was what was proposed as the plan to overturn the affordable care act and also

close to $500 billion in cuts to medicare, combined to these big tax cuts for very wealthy people. so i really hope we can actually do the bipartisan deal, it's a small step, but in the scheme of things, it would be a good thing for the country and for consumers. >> senator, let's continue on the elements of the proposed tax reform bill. what happens to the state and local tax detuxs, they're talking about eliminating? what's going to happen to that? >> well, they're proposing to eliminate the deduction for state and local taxes, which will dramatically increase taxes on millions and millions of middle class taxpayers. the president is running around the country telling people that this is going to reduce the tax burden on the middle class. uh-huh, that's not the case. you take away that deduction along with some of the other deductions they take away, a personal exempt shut up, you will increase taxes on tens of millions of folks in the middle,

in order to finance tax breaks for the folks at the very, very top, the top 1%, million nairs and billionaires. so we're all in, if we're talking about simplifying the tax code and helping folks in the middle. we're not in, if we're talking about increasing taxes on folks in the middle to finance tax breaks for millionaires. >> all right, senator chris van hollen, good luck. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. up next, we talk to a senator on the other side of the aisle, senator bill cassidy says he's not giving up to pass his obamacare repeal plan sponsored with lindsey graham. this time he thinks he may be able to get democrats on board, also a fascinating look inside north korea that keir simmons brought us last book. sara lee will weigh in when we come right back.

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hey, clint, let me bring in clint. a couple of segments ago, clint, we were talking about north korea and we had keir simmons report from there. fascinating that the north koreans say, we're ready for war. we have been afraid of the united states our entire life. we think you guys now have a leader who is mentally unstable and we're ready to go whenever. what was your take of the -- i notice it's a chilling report. >> yeah, this you know, when i started to create, we traveled up the border all the time. can you see from the north korean posture, they were always prepared for war. this was the narrative, but never executed open. we have back channels, so in the counter terrorism fight sometimes we see our arab partners you know make a very

dismissive comment about the united states, but behind the scenes, they were great partners, this was about trying to massage message. here there is no good back channel. so what you saw there from kir is he's talking to someone and they, the north koreans are trying to figure out what you say on tv what you think? when i hear donald trump say this, is this really the only position? if there is no pack channel you don't have a way to deescalate the entire communication environment is controlled by the government. so if there is no other linkages, i think correctly, director brennan talked about it yesterday, can you stumble into a nuclear conflict, because they are already geared for war. >> they appear to be go aheading him, which is easily done, this president has been goeded by so much less, care lee, i'm wondering, what are you hearing from the state department, if leaders in north korea say president trump is mentally ill

and we're ready for war and they basically seem to be kind of leading him along down a bad path. he seems to be going there, where's the effort to reign him in? where is the effort to try and save the country from an unnecessary detour in history because it does afear president has a problem communicating or intellectually processing things or if you believe some expert's mental health issues? >> well, it's a great question, one of the things if you talk to people in the foreign policy world or administration, it's not clear where the off-ramp is here. we haven't seen tensions this high between north korea and the united states really ever. and what i thought was interesting in terms of john brennan, former cia director comments, he put this at a 20 to 25% chance the united states is going to war with north korea.

that's significant. and it's also reflected in the poll that we were talking about earlier, where you see the president's rhetoric in response to provocations from north korea has really got people on edge and the thing to remember there, we still live in a war wary country. people are, despite that there are people worn critical and supported donald trump of president obama's approach to foreign policy, they don't necessarily want someone who is then going to take them into another war as those polls reflect. so i think right now there was some expectation that perhaps there could be a test or some sort of movement on north korea as early as this week, we talked to white house officials who say they are not expecting that, they describe this as being in a holding pattern, waiting to see what happens, whether north korea takes another step and, if so, how the u.s. respond, but the risk you guys were talking about earlier is real in the sense that there could be accidental confrontation and

that's why this rhetoric really matters. >> and, mark halperin, richard haase, is saying this morning, that he just saw a poll that 7 out of ten americans were worried about the possibility of war. he are right to be. war with north korea right now could easily occur. i'm hearing that from more and more foreign policy officials who say while we're discussing all the things that we're discussing on television, what they're worried about behind the scenes is the fact that we have moved much, much closer to war with north korea than even the media is reporting right now. >> everywhere i travel in the country it's one of the first questions i get asked. it's on people's minds. john brennan, the former cia director did an event in new york said the chances with north korea or a military conflict was anywhere between 20 and 25%. that's high, and there's a reason why people are concerned

about that. >> i honestly don't know what members of the foreign policy community are waiting for. there's an accidental confrontation talked about. this president can't even call the family of a foreign soldier without causing a debacle. we have big concerns. carol, thank you so much. still ahead, the growing confusion over the u.s. involvement in nigh jeer after the deadly ambush and the president's delayed response. we'll talk to senator tim kaine, and a week from monday, the know your value event planned at the grand hyatt. great lineup of guests and speakers including sara jessica parker, martha student, cat can i c-- katty kay, not to mention joe and willie. "morning joe" will be right back.

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to take off mike barnicle's yankees tie before he went on air. he wouldn't have been able to go back to boston. but barnicle's rag tag team going up the mountain. and here's what mike said. a new yankee's fan, i have to a

admit the yankee's are such a swell team to watch. i guess mike has been on cloud nine today, hasn't he? >> i'm not going to criticize mike barnicle, because only by his generosity because i able to be at the stadium last night. yanaka, only three hits on him. the astros are hitting something like .147 in the series, i think the lowest in alcs, this is one of the best two or three teams in houston, and the yankee's pitchers have shut them down. they go back to houston. not easy to win a game in houston. they have two shots at it. the yankees, they are fun to watch. they're young and loose. >> but, mike, i was just going to ask, mike, how fun is this

team to watch? >> the astros are huge fun to watch. the problem with the astros, there are about 12 or 14 for over 120 at bats in the playoff series. >> okay. coming up -- >> cubs stayed alive last night too. >> the president clarifies his once murky stance on the bipartisan plan to stabilize the health care markets saying he's against it. we'll talk to senator michael bennett, plus senator amy klobuchar, and former ambassador to russia, michael mcfall joins us. "morning joe" will be right back. wondering, what if? i let go of all those feelings. because i am cured with harvoni. harvoni is a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. it's been prescribed to more than a quarter million people. and is proven to cure up to

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his son? >> i'm not sure if he knew of that specific comment, but they had spoken about it, and he's aware and they've spoken several times since then. >> can you describe how general kelly feels about it? >> i think general kelly is disgusted by the way this has been politicized and that the focus has become on the process and not the fact that american lives were lost. i think he's disgusted and frustrated by that. if he has any anger, it's toward that. >> toward the president. politicizing this. that must be horrible for him. >> he's angry. yeah, it is. so she admitted that he's disgusted by the president of the united states. >> she's -- >> who politicized this on a talk radio show. that was very telling that the white house spokesperson admitted in front of peter and the press corps and the world the john kelly was disgusted.

you don't see a spokesperson step out and actually call the president's actions disgusting. >> usually don't see a president -- >> some people in that white house are growing a conscience in there. yeah. >> in a way that many would find disgusting. welcome back to "morning joe." >> yeah. i mean, he is the one who politicized this. let's underline that. he went on a talk radio show and politicized john kelly's death. again, good on sarah huckabee sanders for admitting he was disgusted by the president's performance. >> she finally says something that everyone can agree on. it's thursday, october 19th. with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. clint watts, white house bureau chief and political analyst for nbc, phillip rocker, and geeren

is with us. we're going to get to the president's reaction to the loss of four american troops that continues to come under scrutiny. there is also the critical question of what went so wrong during that military mission in niger two weeks ago. the pentagon has sent a team of specialist as part of the inquiry. they want to know if the american forces had adequate equipment and whether they were prepared for the attack. was there enough intelligence ahead of the mission, and what was the response to the ambush? one official is saying the amount of confusion during and after the mission was, quote, tremendous. the body of the fourth american soldier wasn't found until nearly two days after the ambush. to add to the confusion, it's still unclear who flew the rescue helicopter after the attack. the u.s. military first said it was a french military. then the u.s. military, and now it may have been a u.s. contractor.

now the chairman of the senate armed services committee, senator john mccain is demanding answers and telling reporters the administration has not been up front about what happened. and then there is the president's delayed response. the white house now says protocol is the reason why it took president trump nearly two weeks to contact the families of the four army green berets killed in the ambush. and also why trump didn't publicly address the incident until this week. >> there is a protocol for that. there's also -- we did make public remarks from the administration. i know i did in short order after that happened from the podium at the direction of the president. and i speak on his behalf. and i did that on behalf of the president and the administration. >> however, politico has obtained a draft statement written the day after the ambush

by national security staffers meant for the president to release which reads in part melania and ri heart broken at the news that three u.s. service members were killed in niger while providing guidance to counterterrorism operations. we offer our deepest condolences to the families and friends of these brave american soldiers and patriots. they will remain in our thoughts and prayers. it's unclear why the statement was not publicly issued. joe? >> well, it is clear. it's obviously national security council wanted him to release that statement the day after. to offer condolences. that is the protocol and the humane thing to do. but for donald trump, he saw this as an embarrassment, as a loss. remember, the pobotched raid in yemen. he had his men go out and say if you questioned the military operation, you were not

patriotic? that's just the way, unfortunately, this man thinks. and it's a way this administration thinks. and willie, here you have, again, another botched raid just like you had -- or a botched military exercise like you had in yemen, and now we're having it -- the center of africa, as clint says, in a very remote region. obviously there wasn't the planning that was needed so the president didn't want this to get out, and so he actually refused to do what every other president in his position would have done immediately sent condolences to the family. >> there were a lot of questions of why we didn't hear immediately on twitter. he's so quick with a tweet. why didn't we hear basing condolences to the four americans who gave their lives for the country in not to my knowledger? >> because he tweets about things he cares about. >> well, clint, can you come up with a rational explanation?

we can talk about what they were doing in niger in a moment, but why the president wouldn't have put the statement out? >> i can't come up with a good reason why he wouldn't have. the only thing is there was ambiguity around the fourth soldier. there was lack of clarity about the situation. i don't understand why you wouldn't immediately come out, or in the case of soldiers in iraq still fighting in mosul, why you wouldn't take the time to do that. >> you're right. after every encounter like that, there is an after action report. that statement -- the draft in politico, referred to three soldiers killed. there were four killed, obviously, and so they find on the second day the fourth. >> sergeant johnson. >> yeah. >> there's a gap there. maybe the situation was a little uncertain, but the situation should have been addressed, and why didn't we know about that fourth soldier? i mean, this could have been a hostage situation.

he was found later dead, but imagine if a terrorist group had taken an american soldier hostage? this is a 48 hour period where we essentially didn't know anything about what was going on. >> it shows, actually, the president's petulance, his poor temperament, when you look, again, look at these two failed military exercises, and we start with the one in yemen, remember what the president said after that? he blamed his generals. he said they're the ones who lost ryan owens. they lost ryan. and so there was this shifting of blame away from the commander in chief. and here you have the president just hoping he can ignore this for two weeks and have it go away. >> yeah. i mean, we don't really know the answers to so much surrounding the -- what happened in niger and the white house response to it starting as you pointed out, a moment ago, with why a very

simple statement of con do lens that didn't even go into exactly what happened, and potentially didn't address the fate of the fourth soldier, couldn't have been issued within 24 hours. certainly in other instances in past administrations where there were questions surrounding a military raid, or operation. at the least, the white house or the state department or both would at least say something about regretting the loss of life, hearts go out of the families and that sort of thing. we don't know why that didn't happen here. and the questions really have only deepened not only surrounding what happened in niger but the process within the white house for dealing with it. and it was only when the president was asked in the rose garden on monday about his lack of -- the lack of personal response from him that this whole four days now of back and

forth about who said what and to whom and how were those -- how were the president's remarks received by the families began. and it began with him basically saying i make the calls, but other presidents didn't. which wasn't an answer to the question that had been asked. >> right. and if you look at what sarah huckabee sanders said yesterday from the podium about protocol, that's incorrect as well. you have the national security council led by general mcmaster who knows something about protocol in these situations immediately drafting up a statement of condolences to the families, the three families at the time. they didn't know a fourth american had been lost. but the next day they had that statement out there and the president scuttled it. >> that's right. and let's look at the time line. the protocol question relates to the president contacting the family members of the lost soldiers. they needed to vet information

about how to contact the family members who the survivors are. that has nothing to do with the president voicing remorse for what happened. this was the highest casualty count for him as commander in chief. he tweets about everything. in the few days following the incident at the beginning of october, he was tweeting about the nfl, senator bob corker, hillary clinton, you name it. he just had nothing to say on this. it was 12 days of silence, and earlier this week i interviewed leon panetta, he was the defense secretary under president obama. he said that's inexcusable, that delay, and he blamed it on staff work, but we now learn the staff was prepared with a draft statement. it was just the president who didn't want to send it. >> the president just tweeted. he says this. republicans are going for the big budget approval today. first step toward massive tax cuts. i think we have the votes but who knows?

um, i would think he would know. i mean, or i guess he doesn't? right? >> well, he doesn't know, and in part, he doesn't know for several reasons. yesterday or the day before we were talking to rob ryaner about lbg who was so connected with the process that if he heard a bill was being slowed down in a sub committee, he would pick up the phone and he would call a startled sub committee chairman in the house and say hey, boy, what's going on with my bill? get it moving. i mean, so he stayed on top of it. other presidents seem to know what's going on with legislation. this president does not. rich lowry has a great column out this morning in politico where he says the trump administration has formidable obstacles but none as big as the fact that trump doesn't know how

he wants to govern. to paraphrase, president trump has a position on lamar alexander patty murray's health care deal, and if you don't like it, he has another one. you can apply that to health care or the budget or to just about everything. a president who is engaged and who is not on an alternate plane, not just looking at cable or twitter news is a president on the phone saying senator corker, you're with us? wait a second. he insults him. senator flake -- hold on a second. you can go down the line. this president can't call these people and ask for their votes because he's insulted them all and their margin of error is so small, how can he predict what any of them are going to do. >> this is the day trading. he has to answer a criticism with an insult and doesn't think about the long-term impacts of going after any of the people that steve bannon has threatened

to challenge in primaries. all of that. phillip, i think what i read in the tweet is not only is he not aware of the vote count, not only is he not necessarily whipping votes but he felt burned by the repeal and replace of obamacare where he assumed having won the white house, the house and the senate that it would be a quick and easy order of business. i think what he's saying is i think we should have it, but these republicans have not shown the ability to get anything done. >> and that tweet, i read it as undermining mcconnell's inability to count votes. this is after they declared themselves best friends forever. and here in his tweet, he's saying i don't know if we can trust him to count the votes. >> is there anyone in washington d.c. who believes they are fast friends? >> wait a minute. isn't he undermining his own ability to lead? he's saying he doesn't know what's going on. he doesn't know if he has the votes. >> it's part of the reality show

of governing. stay tuned. we'll see if they have the votes next episode later this afternoon. mcconnell wouldn't bring a vote like this to the floor if he didn't have the votes. >> i think this president's relationship with the republican-led congress is one of the most interesting aspects of the presidency now that he's been -- it can't really call it brand new anymore. and there are republican leaders in congress who are from the get go, it was assumed, would cooperate with the white house, would try to make sure that even where they disagree with the president or disagree with his temperament and style, this is a republican president and congress. let's work together to get done things we can all agree on like tax cuts. it's almost the end of the year, and they still haven't really actually jumped in with both feet to tax cuts, and i think you see the frustration playing

out on all sides. you certainly saw it in the body language with mitch mcconnell in the rose garden the other day. he sort of looked like he was being taken hostage and kept backing away from the podium. and looking at his feet. he wants the outcome that can come with working alongside a republican president, but he doesn't like feeling like -- i'm sure he doesn't like this sort of tactics today like where the president is basically saying hey, it's all on you, mitch, can you count the votes? i don't know. >> yeah, joe? >> well, you know, the insults have had an impact on republicans. mitch mcconnell has one of the lowest approval ratings in america for american politicians. donald trump still over 80% with republicans. donald trump is the de facto leader of the republican party and obviously as president, he's the actually leader of the republican party, and all the

nasty tweets and the insults and attacks of senators and attacks of congressmen actually are paying off because none of the senators are congressmen other than bob corkerer fighting back. when they do just a little bit, then they back off. if you're being bullied, and i speak from experience, by the way, when you're being bullied, you lean in, and you keep hitting, and you keep pounding, and you make it more difficult for the bully than the bully is making it for you. you rip the bully to shreds. you humiliate them, smother them. you don't just poke them and then back away. that's something that not a single republican on capitol hill has a political sense to figure out. there's only one way to beat a bully, and you know how you beat a bully? you beat a bully. rhetorically, you stay after them, and you hammer them. you don't let them do that. >> i just don't understand how

so many republicans are allowing themselves and their political careers to be run over by a president who isn't even a proven republican at this point, and has -- well, a track record -- >> listen -- >> that is flawed to say the least. >> you know, it's, again, it's confounding to me why these republicans have sold out conservatism. it's confounding to me why they've sold out the ideas of ronald reagan. it's confounding to me why they have sold out the first principles of abraham lincoln and why the republican party really was even established for a man who has been a lifelong democrat who gave money to chuck schumer and was best friends with hillary clinton who gave money to the -- more money to the dnc than bob mueller's entire staff ever even thought about doing it. it's just confounding. this is where we find ourselves.

if they're going to continue to play scared, they're going to be beaten. but they do need to pass legislation for their own political survival with or without donald trump, because their numbers keep dropping, and the republican majority is hanging by a thread right now. >> anne, thank you very much. and still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to talk to swing state democrats tim kaine and michael bennett about their alternative to the medicare for all plan that's popular among their democratic colleagues who may be interested in running for president. plus florida is under a state of emergency. it has nothing to do with hurricanes. an avowed white nationalist is coming to a university there, and officials aren't taking any chances. we have a live report straight ahead on "morning joe." whoooo.

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joining us now, members of

the health education and labor and pensions committee, tim kaine and michael bennett. this week they introduced legislation that would create a public health care option to go along with the affordable care act. i want to talk about that in a second. senator kaine, let me start with you on the question we've been discussing this morning. that's the question of what kpa exactly happened in niger. can you bring us up to speed on what they were doing there, why sergeant johnson was left there for almost two days and what happened there, and why you believe the president's response in offering at least condolences took so long? >> well, there's still a lot of questions we have to answer about this. i'm on the arped services committee as well. we're digging into trying to get answers about it. the reason we are in niger is because of this escalating war against isis. isis has claimed credit for this

particular attack. and that 2001 authorization which said we could go after the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack two years before there was an isis is being used to justify military action all over the world. i've been calling on my colleagues to try to refine that authorization, and let's be clear about what we're doing. there's sort of a covert element to this. the white house drafted a con do lens statement and chose not to put it out. they were sort of trying, i think to lowball that we're involved in niger, and that's part of what's going on. but what we need to do is we need to bring this to light to the american public about how many countries the u.s. is engaging many military activity now on the basis of the twun authorization. >> okay. let's pick up on that senator kaine. we're all over the world. philippines, south america, africa. how many countries are we involved with? >> well, it would be scores and

scores of countries if you're just talking about training or special forces folks on the train, training militaries on virtually continent. the question is how many countries in combat activity? probably a dozen where we're involved in military activity of some kind using the twun authorize dags ation authorization. 75% of people never voted on it. own those who did didn't think it would be applying to military actions all over the world. >> senator bennett, let me can ask you about calling for a public option, a term familiar around the obamacare debate several years back. why do you think now is the time and will you have the votes to get it through? >> well, i've always believed a public option should have been part of the affordable care act. we weren't able to do it. tim and i both heard from our

constituents, especially in rural colorado and rural virginia that it's just unreasonable to force people to buy insurance when there is no competition, price is high, the deductible is high, and the people want to have an option, and so that's what this very strong public option medicare x is all about. we're going to start rolling it out in rural parts of our states, or the proposition is roll it out in rural parts of the states, and have everybody have access in about three years. whether it will past is an interesting question. virtually nothing can pass these days in the wrocongress. i think as part of an attempt to resolve the issues people are having not so much with obamacare but with the american health care system, this ought to be part of the solution to that, and i am optimistic we'll be able to get it passed. i'm pleased to have tim as our co-ko sponsor here, because i think that brings a lot of

credibility to the bill. >> and senator -- >> phil? >> senator kaine, your colleague in the democratic caucus there senator patty murray has been working with lamar alexander that stabilizes short term the insurance markets. we've seen what president trump has shad to say about that. do you believe you can trust this president as a deal maker, and what are you hearing about his inconsistencies? >> there's great inconsistency, but here's what we're trying to do. michael has been part of this deal-making effort. we all have been, when the skinny repeal vote failed in july, that effort to take insurance away from 20 million people, we started to work on a bipartisan proposal to stabilize the individual insurance market. we owe it to the american public to show them after seven years that we can do something in health care in a bipartisan basis.

and i'm really gratified that lamar and patty have out pput t deal on the table giving states flexibility, six republicans have already come out and said they support this deal. many democrats are supporting it. and i think we can get this passed as part of some larger legislation this year. and then we move on to the bigger question of what do we do to fix health care going forward? i think our bill is a solution. the president is backing and forthing on this as on so many other things as part of making him a little irrelevant to the discussions in the senate. we're moving ahead on trying to find bipartisan solutions and we're not going to let tweets get in the way. >> if i could add, there is nobody in the senate that i have more confidence in than lamar alexander. he and patty murray are responding to the testimony we heard on our committee in a bipartisan way that universally called for the things that are

in this bill that they've written. so it would be a shame if we didn't use this opportunity to pass this bill, stabilize the markets, and president trump's attempts to sabotage the affordable care act have been useless to people living in colorado. this bill would help us. >> let's hope. imcurious, senator tim kaine, for the second morning in a row the president is starting his day with tweets about hillary clinton. your running mate. he fired off another tweet writing the uranium deal to russia with clinton help and obama administration knowledge is the biggest story that fake media doesn't want to follow. what do you think -- what do you make of the yearning obsession with hillary clinton? it's sad, but also a little frightening at this point. >> look, there's a moral vacuum in the white house right now, and when the president feels under pressure on other issues, he'll revert back to attacking hillary or bragging about the

size of the inauguration crowd. the thing that's sad about all the instances, whether it's this or the dust up yesterday with the family of this poor soldier killed in niger is what we're seeing is that americans elected somebody promising greatness when there was no evidence of goodness. there can't be greatness without goodness. that's what's lacking right now. >> no doubt about it. it's old saying, america is great because america is good. and then it ceases being good, it will cease to be great. i am curious, senator kaine, do you ever wake up mornings with an instinct or urge to tweet about mike pence? because, after all, you ran against him 11 months ago, i'm just wondering if you have -- >> my support group here. >> if you have the same urges that donald trump has? >> you know, no. i mean, i have my vices, but the desire to tweet early in the

morning is certainly on my vice list. >> well -- >> i would say, though, that this attack, this daily attack on edited content, on curated content by the american president is something the american people cannot stand for. the democracy cannot work with people lose faith in journalism, and the president knows that which is why he starts every day attacking leading journalists in this country. we can't stand for it. >> before we let you guys -- >> he, of course, i want to thank you for being with us, and mika, he tweeted, of course, about this this morning, because it was covered on "fox and friends" which, of course, he watches as well as this show, apparently, if you judge his tweets, but he does not get briefings -- he does not get regular briefings, his briefings come from watching cable news.

and that is -- as somebody that works in that profession, that is truly frightening. i know a lot of people who work in cable news, and, you know, you don't want to get your white house briefings from mike barnicle or me. but think about this fact, though, that here we are 11 months after the election. election is over. he's still attacking the opponent that he won with the electoral votes. i guess he's still angry that he lost the popular vote by over 3 million votes but we have over 70% of americans afraid of a war of possible nuclear war. we have one sixth of the economy hanging by a thread. we have health care reform going down the drain. we have the president trying to pass a budget. we have the senators and the congressmen trying to get a fix on tax reform.

we have all of these things going on. we've got an iran nuclear deal, again, hanging in the balance. we've got a dreamers deal hanging in the balance. we have all these things ahead of us, and the president is tweeting about a political opponent from a year ago. it is -- >> this guy work for the a small company in the midwest, he's be dragged out. there would be an intervention. >> he would be fired. >> because he'd be threatening the company. >> yeah. if the guy was anything. if he worked in a church. if he worked in a synagogue or small business or mid size business or a large corporation, if he were the coach of a football team, a high school football team, he would be fired. and yet, here he is, the president of the united states, and people in my former party won't even stand up to him other than jeff flake and one or two others. >> coming up, brand new video from florida where officials are

bracing for potential clashes ahead of the speech by the white supremacist who organized the deadly rally in charlottesville. kerry sanders joins us next. looking for clear answers for your retirement plan? start here. at fidelity, we let you know where you stand, so when it comes to your retirement plan,

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the university of florida is

bracing this morning for a protest as this afternoon richard spencer the sel self-described white supremacist is scheduled to make a speech on campus. joining us from gainesville, florida, kerry sanders. a state of emergency in florida. what can we expect to see today? >> reporter: well, good morning, willie, we already the barricades up. the police are deployed and the anxiety is growing. on social media, protesters say they've organized what one is calling a show of force to shut down richard spencer who is scheduled to speak here later this afternoon. this morning there's a state of emergency at the university of florida, more than 500 police officers on high alert. the national guard activated and ready. >> my mom called me and was like please don't go outside. >> reporter: all because richard spencer, a self-described white nationalist is making a

controversial speech on campus. spencer helped organize an alt-right rally in charlottesville. one woman was killed when a car crashed into counterprotesters. >> we're prepared for anything that could happen. >> reporter: spencer not commenting. >> i don't think he's going to be answering any questions. >> reporter: officials at the state-run university of florida initially turned down his request to speak, but when he threatened a first amendment lawsuit, they relented. >> i'm urging all our campus is stay away from the event. it's because extremists like him really thrive on attention and confrontation. >> reporter: spencer is paying more than $10,000 to rent the building and cover security inside, but outside the budget for law enforcement is already well over half a million

dollars. spencer tweeting this image referring to himself as hurricane ricardo. >> are you prepared for violence? >> we're prepared to make sure violence doesn't break out. protecting free speech and keeping them safe. >> reporter: so right now we currently have 700 tickets that richard spencer says he will distribute himself. and he says he's only going to give those tickets to people who are supporters of his extreme believes. the problem is trying to sort out who says they're a supporter and then goes in there with other intentions. as you can see here, earlier this morning just before the sun came up, the officers were being deployed. we saw patrol vehicles in locations and troopers marching out with full ray yacht gear getting into position. this doesn't happen until later this afternoon. >> sometimes you use terms like

white nationalist. he's a white supremacist. he's said this is born a white nation. we need to return it to the white nation it was. this country belongs to us, meaning white people. i think there are a lot of people watching who said this is the guy who led the marches at charlottesville that led to the death of heather hyer, is there not anything a public university could do to encourage him or ask him not to make the speech today? >> actually, they did initially try to hold him off. they said that they were not banning him from coming but they just had a scheduling conflict and the scheduling conflict wound up to being on this day. a lot of students and a lot of people are wondering why does he have the right to speak on the campus? what it boils down to is this is a state university, and the state university buildings are open for people who rent for these purposes, and it's not up to the university or anybody else to determine what sort of speech is acceptable or not

acceptable under the first amendment. of course, it goes back to the old question of what speech is prohibited like as the supreme court said you can't shout fire inside a theater, but they did not want to go to court and wind up in a battle over whether his first amendment rights would be violate first down they kept him out of speaking here. so they've relented. he's going to be speaking. he spent 10,000 plus dollars to be here. the state is spending now more than $600,000 to allow him to speak. we'll see how many people show up to listen. >> he's a repugnant guy. let's hope people stay safe in gainesville. >> you know what would be interesting. apparently mr. spencer has 70 tickets or however many number of tickets that he could distribute to people who want to come. if the university at this point could say they have the tickets. they could come, but we are

instituting a $1,000 per head surcharge to cover the cost of security. if you want to get into with a tickets, an extra $1,000 you have to fork over. >> to pay for the security? >> yeah. to help defray the costs. >> this is not a conservative speaker where fragile triggered college students have to go to safe spaces because they're worried they might hear something they disagree with. this is a man who said time and again he's not implied it, we are a white nation and need to return it to a white nation. >> still ahead, will the second time be the charm for the graham cassidy bill? we'll ask bill cassidy how he plans to get democrats on board next on "morning joe."

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we're going to see the bipartisan and lamar alexander is working on it very hard from our side, and if something can happen, that's fine. but i won't do anything to enrich the insurance companies. right now the insurance companies are being enriched. they've been enriched by obamacare like nothing anybody has seen before. >> the president ought to make up his mind. he keeps changing his mind on issue after issue, and that shows an appalling lack of leadership. now he said today it would benefit the insurance companies. he ought to read the bill before he tweets. all right. joining us now, member of the senate committee on health education labor and pensions, republican senator bill cassidy of louisiana. good to have you on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> i think it's fair to ask at this point if -- i mean, how do you really know if the president has actually read what you are proposing? is that a question?

>> well, the president says he's familiar with it. i can't step inside the president's mind. but his concerns are that insurers will raise their rates for 2018, the cost share payments will be made, but the insurers will keep their rates high. they will not reduce them. it's my understanding he wishes to have that further assurance that if these payments are made, insurance companies truly lower their premiums. >> are you seeing in the later of your party, in the president of the united states, are you seeing a question in your mind whether or not he actually has the aptitude or reads what it is he's talking about as it e pertains to these changing bills? honestly, do you know if he reads it? >> of course i don't know if he reads it because i'm not with him all the time. on the other hand, the concern he's expressing is one i have. you don't want it to be a windfall for the insurance company. you want the premiums to come down for the american people. there's been times when there's been windfalls for various industries for something

intended to be for the american people. it's a valid concern. if it's addressed, i'm hoping the president will support it going forward. in fact, it should be addressed or else i wouldn't support it. >> willie, the question i was trying to ask, usually with presidents we've seen in the past that there is an understanding that the president has the aptitude and reads what's in the bill. >> i'm not sure obama read all 900 pages of the affordable care act. to do so, you'd have to refer back to all the references in the code. the president is a digest and that's a summary and prose of the american language. >> senator cassidy, let me ask you about your news that you want to bring back graham cassidy in 2018 and take another crack at it. just to remind people at the end of last month it was pulled because you didn't have the votes, even among your republican colleagues.

as a legislative matter, senator, why do you think next time would be different. >> at least two people had concerns over process not over policy. >> who are they? >> mccain and murkowski. so we go through regular order, if you will, have committee hearings and such, the house does the same, then we think it actually addresses their concerns regarding policy. secondly, there are states represented by democrats that do far better under graham cassidy. for example, virginia would end up with four to five billion more under graham cassidy than the status quo. money to provide coverage for working families, i'm hoping those democratic senators from those states would support the bill. >> senator, they weren't convinced of that last time around. susan collins knew basically what was in the bill and decided it wasn't something she could vote for. i guess my question is why would they change their vote now?

is there something you're going to change about graham cassidy or just going to put it up again the way it was. >> there will be some modification going forward because it's a different legislative year. on the other hand, senator collins was concerned about another part of graham cassidy, the per capita cap. she wanted to have a fuller understanding of that, make sure mainers did okay on that. we'll have the next several months to explore that and prove that maine does pretty well under the per capita cap. our compressed time frame last time didn't allow us to push back, didn't allow us to tell those like the people in virginia and missouri, how much better their states did. >> certainly moved to regular order. this is joe scarborough, senator -- obviously is a step in the right direction. what mika was pointing out, the

president being ignorant of the legislation before him. y i wanted to ask you -- >> hold on, hold on. there is so much evidence that this president doesn't know what's in the bill. it's been a complaint time and time again from legislators on the hill that he doesn't know what's on the bill. all he wants is a bill he can sign. rich lowry this morning from the national review writes in politico, the trump administration has formidable obstacles but none looms quite as large as the fact that trump hip self has no idea how he wants to govern. you are not really suggesting that this president is read in on legislation and on health care legislation as much as past presidents, are you, because that's objectively just not true? >> i will tell you that there are democrats lobbied by president obama on provisions of the aca that said, mr. president, you're wrong on this. he would say i'll call you back

anden in never got a call back. when you have complex legislation, can there be misunderstanding by those involved? yes, there are. joe, neither you nor i nor rich lowry can step inside the president's mind, nor with we understand the legislation -- fdr delegated. they would say go out and do this, he brought back a propose al and sign off or sign on. we have to at some point recognize different presidents have different governing skills. >> you're not comparing fdr's grasp on legislation or eisenhower's grasp of events with that of donald trump, are y you. >> no kind of involvement at

all, we're going away from a gold standard and do the full faith and credit behind a paper bill. as best i can tell, it was brought to him fait accompli and he signed off. that's a pretty significant change in our economic history which as best as i understand was not anything he was intimately involved with. it was some fellow playing the guitar at home and the thought occurred to him. i don't mean to minimize it. that's just the way the guy unwound. i think different presidents have different ways of governing. we just have to respect that. >> i'm sorry. hold on a second. senator, is it fair to say the president has not told the truth at times on any level on anything? i'm not trying to get into his head. you've come on this show a lot. i'm trying to get into yours and understand exactly where you're coming from. has this president ever lied? >> this president speaks in hyperbole. that's interpreted by some as lies and by the president it's interpreted as just his exaggeration. the most beautiful in the world.

well, what's the most beautiful in the world? that's in the eye of the beho behold beholder. the president has a manner of speaking which is easily taken as a lie and. if i get distractive is the hyperbole a lie -- >> we got it. senator bill cassidy. i understand completely. thank you very much. >> mika, the comparison to donald trump's knowledge of whatever bill comes before him -- he literally -- you could smear spaghetti sauce and have 3-year-olds do pictures in crayons -- >> with their feet. >> -- with their feet. if you told him it was the health care bill, he would say this is the most sweeping health care bill of all time, i will sign it now. he'll have a beer party, a keg

par party. just joking there. it's unbelievable that you have a comparison of donald trump to fdr, donald trump to dwight eisenhower and a suggestion that he deals in hyperbole and donald trump looks the other way. >> that was a profile in courage. we'll be right back. son we shouldn't vanquish you to another dimension! ok, guys, hear me out. switching to geico could save you... hundreds on car insurance. huh, he does make a point... i do like to save money... catch you on the flip, suckas! geico. because saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance is always a great answer.

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proposal before he was against it. the elapsed time between the two polar opposite positions, about 20 hours. good morning everyone. it's thursday, october 19th. with us we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin, former fbi special agent and msnbc contributor clint watts and national political reporter for nbc news, carol lee. joe, before we dive into the news, give it a try, frame the morning for us. >> well, i think a lot of people are actually saying what you had the white house spokesperson say yesterday, that the politicizing of any soldier's death is appalling and disgusting. that's exactly what donald trump did when he brought up general john kelly's son a few days ago. this has continued for the past

several days. it's unfortunate, but it does show you the state of washington under donald trump. also another telling story yesterday, one that actually has a significance for one-sixth of the economy has to do with some of these health care reforms that a bipartisan group of republicans and democrats on the hill are trying to pass. the president said he was for it. then he must have talked to steve bannon and now the president is saying he's against it. we've got a lot of holes. we have a lot of back and forth, but mainly the catch word is chaos. chaos that continues to grip this administration, and because of that, this country. >> you always wonder what they're actually deflecting from, because that often is the case. we're going to get to the controversy surrounding the president's handling of those four american servicemen killed in action and the growing questions into how and why they died in the first place, but first, look at this new poll

showing plenty of americans paying attention to the prospect of going to war. according to the latest nbc news survey monkey online poll, 72% of americans are worried that the u.s. will become engaged in a major war in the next four years. 26% are not concerned, that's marginally better than july. when it comes to threats at home, americans are split on what poses the greatest immediate danger to the united states. 34% say terrorists. 32% say a nuclear strike. 31% say cyberattacks. only 2% believe a conventional military threat is the greatest immediate danger. on expanding the nuclear arsenal, americans are split yet again with 39% in favor and 43% opposed, about the same as july. north korea is another big concern for americans.

according to the nbc news/survey monkey online poll, 54% believe north korea poses another greater immediate threat, more than russia, china or iran. that's up 13 points since july. when it comes to the american response to north korea, 64% favor diplomacy over military action, up five points from july. and on iran, 55% say they disapprove the way president trump has handled america's approach to that country. joe, what do you think? >> well, willie geist, you had candidate donald trump saying he was going to be tough and fearless, that he was going to get us out of war, that he was going to be more responsible, and people across the world, dictators across the world would respect us because he had a strong hand there. you look at these numbers. americans have jitters. over 70% of americans concerned

about nuclear war. you've got over 50% concerned about north korea, and you can go up and down. they disagree with what he's doing when it comes to north korea. they disagree with what he's doing when it comes to iran. they disagree with just about everything it seems that he's doing when it comes to foreign policy. >> this lines up, as you said, joe, with what i hear and probably what you hear as you travel around the country. with all the noise that's often created around politics and often around donald trump's tweets about issues that concern him in that moment or that day, it's the big issue of a war with north korea that most concerns a lot of people. these numbers bear that out. i think even some of his supporters have said in polls they wish he wouldn't tweet so much. when he has loose talk about north korea and maybe their time has come and maybe they won't be around much longer, those threats of war certainly are concerning to the american people, less so i would say the

minute-to-din mutt, day-to-day political noise around what he says and tweets. >> mark halperin, you have to go back to the cuban missile crisis, 55 years i guess, to find america as concerned about a major war, concerned about nuclear war. these are height of cold war numbers. these are 1962 numbers. these are numbers that we have not seen certainly in the past 20 years. >> you'd have to go back further than that to find an administration whose upper reaches of the national security team, national security adviser, chief of staff, secretary of defense, our military men who historically have not been as willing or eager to get america into an armed conflict. that's running counter to that. i find it difficult to discern what the strategy is on any of these things. there's a lot of rhetoric and day-to-day as a great man once said, day trading. it's hard to discern a long-term

strategy, dealing with allies threatening military action, it's hard to see where this goes. you see it reflected in the poll numbers. >> especially mika, when you have a president, a commander-in-chief who undercuts his secretary of state who is trying to divert a nuclear showdown and saying, hey, secretary of state, you're wasting your time. there's only one thing that's going to work here and it's going to be war. actually he didn't say that. he said you'll find out. he's leaving the impression that it's only a war, a guy who said before we should use our nuclear weapons. it's just -- again, there's a good reason for americans to be concerned president i've been shocked by a lot of things i've heard people say. mike barnicle and i were at a baseball game a few weeks ago and a guy said to us, he said, well, i never thought i would

say this, but there is a chance that this country could be obliterated in a nuclear war. this was an educated top executive and you have those fears creeping through america because donald trump has such an unsteady hand in the white house. >> joe, it's interesting, you bring up the contrast between october of 1962, the cuban missile crisis, 55 years ago, the governance of this country then and the constituencies they were dealing with, the people of the united states of america. we were surrounded by people familiar with war, with two wars, world war ii and korea. it was still in the air, both wars. millions and millions of americans knew the cost of war. today very few people know the cost of war, and there has been an inability or an unwillingness just in this administration and the past administrations to

explain what we're involved with here. we're involved in a global war on terror. it's continued for all these years and will continue for many more years. it's a generational war. it's never truly been explained to our citizens, to you, to me, to all of us. the president's reaction to to the loss of four american troops comes under scrutiny, there's also the question of what went so wrong during that military mission in niger to weeks ago. the pentagon sent a team of specialists wanting to know if the american forces had adequate protective equipment and whether they were prepared for the attack. was there enough intelligence and what was the response to the ambush. one official says the amount of confusion during and after the mission was, quote, tremendous.

the body of the fourth american soldier wasn't found until nearly two days after the ambush. to add to that conclusion, it's unclear who flew the medevac hell copper after the attack. the u6789 s. military said it was the french military, then the u.s. military, and now it may have been a u.s. contractor. now the chairman of the senate armed services committee, john mccain, is demanding answers, telling reporters the administration has not been up front about what happened. carol lee, what are you hearing about this? >> mika, there are so many questions about this -- what happened here. it's all getting blurred by this fight that the president has decided that he wanted to pick with the families of these victims. i think what you're going to see here in terms of, if you look at john mccain, if you look at when there was the raid in yemen and there were questions raised about that, the white house

really pushed back on senator mccain and basically said it was unpatriotic for anyone to question this raid and what happened. i don't think you're going to see that with this because, one, it's become so front and center. two, i think there are lessons learned from the way that the white house pushed back on yemen went. so you're going to see questions coming from the hill, the families have questions, there's plenty of reporting that has questions. this is going to be something that the white house is going to have to answer for. >> clint, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that's one of the reasons the president didn't talk about these four deaths for some time, that it appears like it was similar to the yemen raid. a lot of questions on why were they there? were they've equipped? what happened that night? and should it have been avoided? what can you tell us about this raid? what are you looking at? >> what's interesting about it is we've seen an aggressive

stance on counterterrorism pushing the fringes a little more. where these guys were was right on the border of niger and mali and the fringe of our counterterrorism fight. i've worked on this area a little bit. we were worried decades ago about putting forces too far out on that fringe. this is a remote area. it's hard to support. you talk about medevac or recovery, and then you put it in comparison. if you remember there was an attack in benghazi we've been talking about for years. this isn't that dissimilar where we had u.s. forces very much extended out on the frontiers, working with host nation forces and did they have the right support. it's going to be very interesting in the days -- >> clint, explain quickly why were they there? why would they have been in such a remote region? >> in this area the strategy has been called part of the

counterterrorism sahara initiative. it was to train and questiequips to do counterterrorism by, with and through. that's a special forces mission if you look back. the traditional special forces mission is to build these indigenous forces. they are way out on the periphery. sounds like they were part of a patrol working with niger's forces that came under a very strong ambush. i heart estimates it was up to 50 people ambushing this special forces team in a very week force and they were very much extended. talking about who flew the medevac mission, there are very few resources to actually go out and recover or support troops doing that. still ahead on "morning joe," to believe president trump's account of a conversation with the military widow, you have to dismiss the word of a sitting u.s. congresswoman and the woman mo

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welcome back to "morning joe." as the pentagon looks into the deadly ambush of four american soldiers overseas, there's the on going controversy over hat the president reportedly said to the widow of one of those fallen servicemen. congresswoman fredrica wilson was in the car and told us yesterday what she heard in that car and the widow, myeshia johnson's reaction. >> he was almost like joking. he said, well, i guess you knew -- something to the fact that he knew what he was getting into when he signed up, but i guess it hurts anyway. just matter of factly, that this is what happens. she was in tears, and she said, he didn't even remember his

name! >> moments after that interview on "morning joe," president trump tweeted this. democrat congresswoman totally fabricated what i said to the wife of a solder who died in action and i have proof. sad. congresswoman wilson stood by her story. the woman who raised johnson, his aunt, was also in the car and heard the president's call. she confirmed congresswoman's account. she said, president trump did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband. the president denied what the congresswoman claimed he said while the house elaborated on trump's, quote, proof of the accusation. >> president trump what did you say to sergeant johnson's window on the phone yesterday. >> didn't say what that congresswoman said. she knows it. she now is not saying it. i did not say what she said. i'd like her to make the statement again, because i did not say what she said. i had a very nice conversation

with the woman, the wife, who sounded like a lovely woman. did not say what the congresswoman said. most people aren't too surprised to hear that. >> what was the proof, mr. president? >> let her make her statement again and you'll find out. let her make her statement again and then you'll find out. >> what proof does president trump have when he says congresswoman wilson is not telling the truth. are there recordings of his phone call with myeshia johnson? >> no. but there were several people in the room from the administration that were on the call, including the chief of the staff, general john kelly. >> what do you say about her comment that he did not know, and the wife, the widow, said that the president did not know his name. he kept saying your guy, your guy. >> just because the president said your guy, i don't think that means he didn't know his name. as the president stated, the hardest job he has is making calls like that.

i think it is appalling what the congresswoman has done and the way she's politicized this issue, and the way that she is trying to make this about something that it isn't. >> so, joe, there's some people who suggested congresswoman wilson did not come into this with good will, she's called for the impeachment of president trump recently and saw a moment to make political hay out of this. to believe she's not telling the truth, you also have to believe that the woman who raised sergeant johnson is not telling the truth. she was in the car. johnson's mother died when he was 5 years old and he was raised by his aunt who is the woman in the car. you have to disbelieve both of those accounts to think they're lying. >> yeah. you also have to trust sarah huckabee sanders and donald trump to be telling the truth. they have the worst track record probably of any white house spokesperson and president in recent u.s. history. mark halperin, as you see the

back and forth, i suspect this is exactly what you were worried about yesterday morning, that this sort of back and forth is unbecoming. nobody wins. it just gets uglier. you had sarah huckabee sanders once again throwing john kelly under the bus saying he was there. i suspect they want him to come out and denigrate the memory of this young man and his wife and everybody else. it's a no-win situation. in the meantime you see claire mccaskill and other people there trying to get policy done. it seems like this is a distraction that, obviously, yes, some offensive things -- i think it's safe to presume donald trump is going to say offensive things. at this point, though, i think everybody in the media should tie a bow on this and move on to nuclear war with north korea and

ensuring health care for one-sixth of the economy. >> i agree with that. i agree with that. the media is filled today with stories of going back and interviewing families from the past who have gotten calls from presidents after they lost a loved one making the ultimate sacrifice. there's lots to scrutinize about the president. he started this. the responsibility begins with him at the white house. i just don't -- this is part of america, part of the reality of a nation at war. i just don't think scrutinizing the calls and asking for different accounts and putting the pressure on the president to give his version, i just don't think it serves the national interest to have this discussion the way we have this week. >> i do think, mika, if we have to talk about what's happened over the past several days on this story, it would make more sense to talk about what the president did to the chief of staff and his wife and their

daughter-in-law and their grandchildren and their family when the president dragged their son into the limelight for a cheap political shot on a talk radio show. used his son's dead body to attack barack obama and by extension, other predecessors. if there's going to be a discussion, i think that's the discussion to be had. exactly what is john kelly's response to the president of the united states doing something that no one, no president with any sled of humanity would consider doing. >> i'm looking more at 20,000 feet, how we started the show this morning, with the fears of the american people, fierce of a war. i'm sorry. i would venture to think that a lot of people looking at that man speaking there in the white house yesterday answering those

questions does not seem fit for the job at all. that's the big picture. coming up on "morning joe," we'll talk to former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul, plus senator amy klobuchar joins the discussion after a tough exchange yesterday with attorney general jeff sessions who says we should have the right to, quote, jail journalists if we have to. we'll be right back. ( ♪ ) ♪ one is the only number ♪ that you'll ever need ♪ ♪ because one is the only number ♪ staying ahead isn't about waiting for a chance.

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, professor of political science and director of the institute for international studies at stanford university, michael mcfaul, good to have you on board. on capitol hill, member of the judiciary committee, democratic senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. good to have you both with us. >> thank you. >> i guess i want to talk with you first, ambassador, about the russia investigation. we had john brennan in an on the record event at fordham law school making statements including, it's hard for me to

believe that the russians as good as they are, sophisticated as they are, a program like this, were not able to get some americans to cooperate with them either wittingly or unwittingly. i find it implausible, these targeting ads. >> that's a big statement coming from john. i worked with john through three years at the white house. he's not known for hyperbole. >> what's he saying? >> i think he thinks there's been some coordination here. of all people that would have known that, the former head of the cia is probably one that might have known. >> senator klobuchar, i know you're working on legislation at a number of levels here. >> we think the mueller investigation is key here, to be able to get to the bottom of what happened, to make sure that the justice department allows it to go forward, most significantly the white house allows it to go forward so we can get the facts. of course it's not out of the range of possibility at all that

there was coordination when we're hearing daily the kind of things russia did. that is exactly why senator warner and senator mccain and myself are introducing our bill today, that makes it clear this is a national security issue when $1.4 billion was spent on online ads paid for -- we now know $100,000 at least in rubles. americans need to know who is paying for the ards. it's a national security issue, as well as if they buy ads on your tv station, guess what? it has to be reported. >> senator klobuchar, i want to ask you about a jaw dropping exchange you had with jeff sessions in the judiciary committee hearings. you asked plainly would sessions commit to not putting reporters in jail for doing the job is the way you phrased it. his answer is, and this is a quote, i don't know that i can make a blanket commitment to that effect. we have not taken any aggressive action against the media at this

point. did that surprise you as much as it surprised most people? what did you take that to mean? >> it did because i used the words doing their jobs. obviously some reporters might violate the law in some way. that's not what this was about. this is about news gathering activity. and the previous administration, attorney general holder and lynch had a set of rules in place that basically said from 2015 on, if there's going to be some kind of a subpoena issued, it will be reviewed at the highest level. the information that we know now is that in august, attorney general sessions had his staff start looking at those rules again. we don't know what the outcome is, but we also know one troubling fact, the president just last week against nbc tweeted out that he thought their content could be a reason to pull their license. that is an fcc matter, but an unbelievable statement, all based on some of the statements involving secretary tillerson and his use of the word --

alleged use of the word moron and all of those things. the president says that and then what happens? luckily chairman pie after a few days comes out and says, guess what, we're not going to do anything like that. we don't pull broadcast licenses because of content. but we are once again seeing attacks on the first amendment day after day after day. >> i want to play the sound bite so our viewers can hear for themselves exactly what mr. sessions said yesterday. >> will you commit to not putting reporters in jail for doing their jobs? >> i don't know that i can make a blanket commitment to that effect, but i would say this, we have not taken any aggressive action against the media at this point, but we have matters that involve the most serious national security issues that put our country at risk and we

will utilize the authorities that we have legally and constitutionally if we have to. >> ambassador mcfall -- >> did you ask him what country we're in? >> what do you hear when you listen to that? >> first of all, it does remind me of russia in 2000. that's exactly what vladimir putin did when he became president. as he grew his autocratic power in russia, the first people he went after was national television, just to be clear. now, that said, thank goodness our democratic institutions are a lot stronger in america than they were in russia in 2000. what's striking to me is how little support there are for these things. that sounds frightening to me. that sounds like there's something in the back of his mind that he's saying maybe in the future we might have to revisit this. >> wow. joe? >> i wanted to ask you, mr. ambassad ambassador, we've already excoriated a senator for trying to draw comparisons between donald trump and barack obama on another issue. i certainly don't want to be

excoriated for doing the same here. but i'm disturbed by what i heard from jeff sessions, but i was also disturbed back in 2013 when we found out that the obama administration secretly seized phone records from associated press reporters and was quite aggressive towards other news agencies, too. in fact, you had a lot of journalism -- a lot of journalism organizations concerned that, in fact, the obama administration was more aggressive against reporters than any administration before it. i'm curious whether this is part of a disturbing trend obviously amped up by this administration that seems to have absolutely no respect whatsoever for the first amendment protections that are afforded to a free press. >> you know, it's a good question, whether there's a trend line there, most certainly because of national security issues and going back to the bush administration as well. these conflicts have been

apparent and they should be add juft kated, and they should be discussed because the lines are fuzzy. not unlike the lines that are fuzzy in terms of our own elections. nobody thought about russians buying facebook ads until recently, that putin is using our channels, our media channels to influence our election. i think they're hard questions but not questions we should solve in terms of reducing freedom of the press. we need more press, not less. >> mike barnicle, again, just to prove this point again while we're talking about this, and i will say again, i'm very disturbed by everything i heard yesterday. i've been extraordinarily critical of this administration and their attacks on the press using stalinist language, calling them enemies of the people. also you have in 2013 james rosen actually being called a

criminal co-conspirator under the espionage act of 1917 so they could gain access to his personal records, his personal phone records. james rosen -- fox news as well. >> senator, were you going to jump in with something? >> i believe that's why attorney general holder and then later lynch came out with these new rules in 2015. it was in part in response to the pushback of some of the things that had been going on in the previous administration. that's why what's so concerning about the answer that i got yesterday, is there wasn't any lead-in about the importance of the freedom of the press. here you have the attorney general's boss, the president, who literally is tweeting out anything he wants every morning, but doesn't seem to respect the amendment that gives him the right to do it. >> senator, within this matrix, we're talking about what

happened to our election process which is a virtual act of war against us really, interfering with our election process. we also have the lack of transparency by these tools that so many literally billions of people around the globe use like facebook. they are not being as transparent as they ought to be, involving an act of war against our country. do you have any suggestions to force them to become more transparent? >> well, stay tuned today at 12:30 as senator warner and i will be putting forth our bill which senator mccain is co-sponsoring with us. i can't tell you how important this is. even if you put russia aside, we have a situation where over 65% of americans get their news off the internet and yet they are flooded by ads, ads for candidates or against candidates, for issues or against issues. guess what? none of it can be traced. it's not in a public file, not

registered. we know foreign governments are buying these ads. we're not here talking about a cat video you might want to put up saying you like donald trump or don't like him. we're not talking about "snl" skits you want to retreat. we're talking about paid political ads. all we're doing is taking the rules that are in place for broadcast radio and print and applying them to the ads that are purchased online. and i don't understand how they're going to be able to oppose this. i'm sure they may find a way. >> senator amy klobuchar we'll be watching for that at 12:30. ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you as well. come back and confirm what country we're in. >> thank you. up next, wall street on a record run. the treasury secretary says that comes with a caveat. why steve mnuchin is warning markets will tank inless congress passes tax reform. we're closing in on a know your value event in new york city

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reversal of a significant amount of these gains, in other words, the markets will fall if we don't get tax reform. the comments resonating a little more with wall street today because they come right around the 30th anniversary of black monday, the market crash in 1987, the dow dropped 20% in a single day. secretary mnuchin getting a lot of headlines. one of the stocks on the radar is cred rt card company american express, reporting slightly better-than-expected earnings after yesterday's close. separately it said current chairman and ceo ken shchenault will be replaced by the current am ex-veteran. he's running am ex-since 2001, been with the company 37 years and one of the first

african-americans to run an s&p 500 company. big deal there. cities across america are jockeying for position today to get into business with amazon.com in a big way. bids are due today for who is going to be the home of amazon's second headquarters facility outside of its currency addle headquarters. 100 cities, over 100 have reportedly expressed interesting, ranging in size from new york and l.a. down to lehigh valley in pennsylvania. the reason we care is amazon says it's going to invest $5 billion and hire around 50,000 people to staff that second headquarters facility. back over to you. >> handicap it for us before you go. who has the lead here? >> it's going to be tough. a lot of big cities who have at least a geographic representation. you want to say maybe it's a coastal thing, go to the east coast towards boston and new york. newark, new jersey, has a huge presence here and wants this facility done in a big way. i would also say the midwest is

interesting as well because, if you want to have that geographic diversity and representation, maybe a place like chicago, elsewhere in the midwest could be a good way to diversify your geographic business. >> cnbc's dominic chu, thanks. it's taken way too long. a real discussion is finally emerging about sexual harassment in the workplace. up next i'll talk with journalist gretchen carlson who is on the forefront of that conversation. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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. bombshell reports alleging that harvey weinstein sexually harassed and assaulted dozens of women. his brother bob weinstein is now in the center of the roiling scandal. he emerged as a vehement critic of his embattled brother. now also denies an allegation of sexual misconduct against himself. as the national conversation on sexual harassment amplifies, our next guest's decision to speak up sparked a major conversation about the pervasiveness of the problem. and in doing so she discovered that nearly every woman has a story. gretchen carlson joins us. the author of the new book, "be fierce," stop harassment and take your power back. great title. >> thank you. >> we've worked together.

>> we worked together. >> over the years so we know each other well. we also know the environment within which we worked over the years, the tv business. we both have sort of watched from afar favoritism in this business based on relationships, pe personal relationships. there's certain things that you can't do anything about. but with sexual harassment, there's a clear line here. there's a difference, is there not? >> well, yes. i mean, from all the women i heard from after my story broke sa months ago, 15 months ago, all the stories in "be fierce." these were ridiculous things that were happening in the workplace. people were covering them up. they were blaming the victims style. i just feel like where we are right now is at this tipping point. because so many more women have been brave and courageous to come forward. >> right. >> i really feel like we're moving in a positive direction. >> was it -- tell me about --

was it a struggle to learn to be fierce? >> uh-huh. >> when you give this advice, does it come from an area that took you a while to figure out? >> well, building courage is not something you do overnight. i do believe it gibegins when you're a child. that's why i have a whole parenting chapter in how to build courage in our boys and our girls. i just didn't decide to jump off a cliff one minute before. it takes immense courage to do something like that. it's an excruciating choice for women to come forward. because you're called a liar and a troublemaker. and nobody believes you. so i'm hoping now that that trend has changed because look at all the faces of the women who are saying me too. >> right. >> and i'm proud to say it's me and i'm coming forward. >> so how would you describe for women who are looking for warning signs, how would you describe a culture that supports and enables sexual harassment? what does it look like? >> this is one of the pro active

calls in my book. there are so many great guys out there who want safe work environments. it became the longest chapter in my book, about men who defend. so we would love to have them stop enabling and turn from bystanders to allies for us. speak up in the workplace. if you see this happening. you know, be a hero for a woman and come forward on her behalf. what i found is when a man or a woman does that, it stops it cold. >> right. >> it stops the behavior. >> like, that's not cool, no. >> exactly. >> i don't want to hear you're doing that. i've got to do something about this, now that you just told me. >> that would be fantastic. we've seen that now with the hash tags coming out. where men are creating their own hash tags. we need to do this as a team collectively. it's something that everyone should be concerned about. because if you have a daughter, or if you have a son, this is an issue that we want to fix before they get into the workplace. >> is there anything that can be done legislatively? >> yes, i've been working so

much on this, advocating on capitol hill. the big thing is to take the secrecy out of arbitration clauses that are in our employment contracts. because if you file a sexual harassment complaint and you go to a secret chamber, nobody ever finds out about it. so i'm working really hard on a bipartisan bill to take the secrecy element out so that the power pendulum becomes more equal for the employee and the employ employer. when it's secret, the harasser stays on the job and the woman gets fired. every politician should be concerned about this. because harassers don't ask you before they do it, are you a republican or a democrat? they just harass. and for any politician who has a daughter or a son, this is a national issue right now. and everyone should be concerned about it. >> what about a woman who's in a position where she is being har harassed or feels she might be? how do you find the words? i'd be like, you know what,

that's a no, that's a no. if it were to go further than that, i would -- but what other things can women do, say, dig deep as tools to have? >> so chapter four is playbook that i've come up with. my 12 point plan for women. most important thing is to document it and to have a plan. because oftentimes women take it and take it and take it and think they can overcome it. then they suddenly one day just file a complaint but they don't have a plan. then you can't put the genie back into the bottle. document and keep all that information at home. i also advocate for them to seek the advice of an attorney before you do anything. and also tell a trusted colleague or two. so that you have a witness. until we get out of this he said/she said culture and the automatic belief that the woman is lying, you have to have trusted colleagues who will come to your defense. >> the book is "be fierce." it's now on sale. gretchen carlson, thank you so much. it's so good to see you.

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in president trump's latest attempt to change the conversation away from the four american soldiers killed overseas, he tweeted, workers of firm involved with the discredited and fake dossier take the fifth. who paid for it, russia, the fbi or the dems or all? as our last guest former ambassador mike mccall points out, am i reading this right, is the president accusing the fbi of corrupt actions? >> well, mika, the president finally shows his hand. at the end of our show, we've seen all the distractions over the past five, ten, 15 days. all go back to bob mueller's investigation. he feels the walls closing in on him. he knows the fbi is on his

trail. and so now he's bashing the -- he's bashing american law enforcement officers who protect us and who are trying to figure out how russia tried to steal our election. so he's shown his hand. that's what all of this charade is about. he is scared to death. because the news just keeps getting worse, willie, on the russia investigation. >> the accusation, just to put it up again, the accusation there, by putting the fbi's name in that tweet, is that the fbi is asking perhaps did they, maybe, pay a former british intelligence agent to dig up dirt on donald trump during the presidential campaign. just be very clear what he's accusing right there. the american fbi, that investigative agency here in the united states, of paying a former british intelligence officer -- >> yeah, russia, the democrats or the fbi. i mean, that's some troika that donald trump has done.

he's filled with fear about bob mueller's investigation. >> he is scared to death and every tweet, every attack, everything he is doing now, he has just revealed his greatest fear and it is that actually bob mueller is uncovering the truth. bob mueller is going to get to the bottom of not only this but other things that donald trump has done and it is freaking him out. and so that's why everything else is a misdirection to distract from the russian investigation. and the truth that bob mueller's uncovering every day. >> that's it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. >> thank you, mika. hey there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, trump on the defense over his actions with gold star families. >> didn't say what that congresswoman said, didn't say it at all. >> new questions this morning. not over the president'