these kids, these college students, who they were making at the troll factory is 2 1/2 times than the average job in russia. >> that's all in for this evening. good evening, chris. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. okay, if i were president, i might not want to talk about this either. when the trump administration's decision about this particular country was announced last month, the country involved put out a statement, an unusual statement in response. they put out a statement saying they felt the need to, quote, express our incomprehension about what the trump administration had just done. across the spectrum in the united states, the reaction was the same. and it was unanimous among all sorts of different people who

you thought would have different perspectives on this. but across the board, everybody was incomprehending, the head of the u.s. military for that region, called the decision by the trump administration puzzling. a top human rights lawyer who had operated extensively in that country, called the trump administration's decision, quote, bewildering. saying, there's no reason, and saying, quote, it makes no sense whatsoever, none, zero. long-time u.s. ambassador of a neighboring country said, to me what they did makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. that same ambassador did have one speculative explanation, he said it was possible the trump administration did what they did, quote, out of sheer incompetence. but otherwise, frankly it just doesn't make sense. so across the board, those are all very different types of people, who tend to have different types of reactions to policy decisions made by a new

administration. but all these types of regional experts are all just baffled. we have no idea where this came from. and what they were so baffled by, had to do with this part of the world. this big belt of countries. a belt of big countries that makes utmost of the lower tier of the sahara desert. the countries we're talking about here are mali, nigeria and niger and chad. we're all of a sudden payingth of attention to the nation of niger. four special forces soldiers were just killed in niger just over two weeks ago, at a time when most americans had no idea that we had a significant nubmbr of treeoops in niger, let alone that any of them were at risk. and we lost four of them. we have possibly as many as

1,000 troops in niger, but i think it helpful to see that map there, in part to remember which country borders which country, if you're not that familiar with that part of africa, but also just to remember, these are really large countries we're talking about. niger is a former french colony, but no terms of nigeria, it's twice the size of france, mali is about the same size, these are large, landlocked countries, that have big long international borders with each other, by necessity, they end up very mixed up and very involved in each other's business, both for the worse and for the better. and on that map, the country that's just east of niger, chad, that's the country that caused everybody, the american human rights people, the diplomats, caused their own government to

have profound surprise sand bewilder month last month when the trump administration did something really strange about that country, that might have actually just been a mistake. still to this day, it doesn't make much sense what the trump administration did, it really might have just been a screw up by them. but what they did also might explain why we have just had these four absolutely unbelievable, gut wrenching emotional days in american politics and in d.c. in particular. because if i were them, i would rather divert attention to anything, even unbelievably unpalatable decisions and discussions rather than talk about this. all right, do you remember back in 2012, islamic militants, militia link to al qaeda took over timbucktoo.

including that historic world famous city. the militants declared sharia law. mali had been a french colony, france still sees itself has a stake holder in timbuktu. france led a big military operation, thousands of troops, to help the government of mali take back its territory from those militants, to take back t timbuktu. they took back whole swathes of that country from the militant group. but they were in support of the government of mali and they were there with a big regional force of african troops. which in some cases had a lot of experience already fighting against these islamic militias, one of the most critical parts

of the african force that -- when the french and those regional african forces routed the islamic militants in northern mali, the french thereafter decided that they would stay, they set up a regional force to continue to fight islamic extremists, to keep them from taking territory again in that part of the world. part of the reason that you can tell that chad in particular had been super valuable to france in that fight, is because when france decided they would stay in that region, they would run a permanent regional operation against islamic militancy in that part of the world, where they decided to set their headquarters up, not where they had this fight. they set up their headquarters in chad. and that's where they remain today. that french-led operation has

been headquartered in chad since 2014. 2014 is also when president barack obama decided to send a contingent of u.s. troops to assist in the hunt for those hundreds of nigerian schoolgirls who were kidnapped and held captive by boko haram. u.s. troops were sent into that part of the world to look for those niger jian schoolgirls in 2014, they were trying to figure out where they were being held, and the u.s. troops operated the drones in the surveillance zones, in that military operation was again chad. the u.s. military as well, set up their headquarters for that fight in chad. then in 2015, another permanent multi national joint task force was set up to fight militant activity in that whole huge landlocked region in central and west africa, where all these al qaeda linked and isis linked

groups in boko haram were operating to such great effect. the head of that joint national task force against islamic extremism, again in chad. the reason there was so much international and regional activity against islamists ina part of the world is because isis had territory in that area. they had a lot of territory. and they were based in nigeria, and nigerian troops were fighting against them, but they couldn't do it on their own. that's part of why these regional efforts were brought to bear for the countries in the region. but there's a reason all these international groups were headquartered in chad. because all the experts say that pound for pound, that military from chad, and the chadian special forces, they're the

best, most battle hardened most effective military for fighting islamic extremism in that part of the world. in early 2015, when boko haram held that huge amount of territory, they brought in troops from niger and from chad, they kind of routed them, they ran them out of town after town. boko haram declared that they had formed a new islamic militant branch in that part of western and central africa. but that regional and military effort against them, let out of chad, broke that stuff up, took back all those towns, shut them down, and chad is not a rich country, they've got oil, they've got a little bit of money, but they also have a dictator who takes care of that. it's a large country, it's mostly poor, but for a variety

of reasons they have put profound resources into leading the military counter terrorist fight in that part of the world. in march of this year, the united states led 27 countries in a massive military exercise in chad, it was called flintlock, 27 countries represented, exercise led by the united states, 2,000 u.s. military personnel participated in it. they could have done this anywhere in africa, there's a reason they did it in chad. in this country, we tend to be more focused when we think about isis, we think of them in iraq and syria, but they got close to declaring caliphate, in that part of the world. part of boko haram, now calls itself a province of the islamic state of isis, but the lead offense against them really has

been the military of chad. and it's interesting, even though the chad military has been leading the fight against these groups, there haven't actually been many attacks by these groups inside chad. and there's not a lot of chadian civilians who have been joining the islamic militant groups. nigeria has a really big problem with them. nigerian troops go and fight these guys and chad does too. troops from niger fight these guys and chad goes too. mali has a big problem with these guys. chad goes too. it's not necessarily their homegrown problem. but chad leads it. this has been much worse of a problem in their neighboring countries, but chad has been the tip of the spear, in nye yeigenn mali, to a lesser extent in niger. but chad leads the fight. and all these international troops, they're all headquartered in chad, including

the ones we participate in. that kind of sort of military geo spatial orientation usually doesn't matter to us here in the united states. but enter the trump administration. september 24th of this year, the trump administration announced it's new muslim ban. president trump said he would enforce a total and complete ban on muslims into the united states. that morphed into the muslim ban immediately upon being inaugurat inaugurated, but has gone nowhere in the courts. but they introduced a new ban, that included a new list of countri countries, from which people would not be allowed to come to this country, it's random, right? we don't know how this happened, but they dropped iraq, they dropped sudan, but then they

added in north korea, they added in venezuela and they added in chad. and the additions were weird. north korea was a strange addition, not because north korea is a country that the u.s. worries about right now, the reason that north korea is weird is that north koreans don't travel to the united states. they let alone get passports, let alone visas. but chad? they just blanket banned people from chad. nobody from chad can get a visa to come here anymore. and right from the get-go, there was this care you lack of justification for chad showing up on this list. neither the state department nor the -- the times further reported immediately, that

officials at both those agencies, both at state and defense, were vehemently opposed to chad being on this list. but for some reason, the trump administration did it anyway. and what made it worse was the purported explanation, for why chad was on the list. out of all the countries listed in the current iteration of the travel ban, chad is the only one described by the trump administration as being on the list, because several terrorist groups are active in chad. oh, yeah, that's the only country where that's happening. maybe you can make that case that chad has a terrorism problem, certainly they have had some attacks. but if that's the problem, they're not the problem, i mean if that's the reason you end up on the travel ban list, even in that part of the world, why would you end up wouldn't you pick nigeria, afghanistan, but chad is the country that has terrorism? absolutely baffling.

absolutely baffling. and that's why you got all those quotes from the experts, bewild bewildering, pluzzling, this makes no sense. the day after the travel ban was announced, the man was interviewed who had been the state department's expert in that region, until last year when we got rid of all the experts. he called putting chad on that list, a knee jerk move, rather than a careful decision, one that could put americans in harm's way. he said there's no incentive to label chad as soft on terrorism, which they definitely are not. i want you to just to stick a pin in one part of that quote there. this could put americans in harm's way, that's the guy who used to be the state department expert on chad until last year. this decision could put americans in harm's way. september 25, he gave that warning. friday of last week, the government of chad announced

that they had completed the withdrawal of all chadian troops in their neighboring country kn niger, where they have been fighting it's sit militants aed the most battle hardened most effective in the region, fighting islamic militancy. the reuters bureau in that region, said immediately upon the withdrawal of those troops, boko haram militant attacks started to tick up in niger. residents immediately started to leave their villages and move out of whatever region they lived in for their own safety, because those chadian troops withdrew from niger. chad announced that their troops were all out this past friday, but they also announced that the removal of those troops was a culmination of a two-week process, they started withdrawing their troops from niger, the last week in september, if we're going to be

literal as to what they announced about the two-week period. that means they pulled their troops out starting friday september 29. which would be the friday after the trump administration made this baffling decision to insult and harm our closest military ally in that region. and the leader of the regional fight against isis and boko haram in that part of the world, where isis has been trying to establish eat khacaliphate. i'm sure the chadian members of that military, were happy to get their family members home, after the trump administration announced this -- they were protecting those villages and those region from isis and islamic militant groups from being able to operate freely there and being able to take territory from there once again. and pulling out those chadian military enabled those isis

attacks. and those troops started pulling out, as best we can tell, right after the trump administration inexplicably did what they did. those troops from chad got pulled out the 29th. right after that, that's when four u.s. army soldiers got attacked by a large contingent of isis fighters in niger, and four of them killed, within days of the start of the chadian soldiers being withdrawn so no wonder the president doesn't want to talk about it, right? there had been some speculation that maybe the president didn't want to make any public acknowledgement of the deaths of those soldiers because he didn't want to talk about u.s. treeps bei troops being killed by isis fighters while he's taking credit for defeating isis. but this may be the dumber combat missicom decisions of the trump administration so far, an

inexplicable baffling decision by his administration, it's being called a mistake at best, days after that policy decision, our most experienced and battle hardened military allies pulled out and went home, and then american soldiers were attacked. the ambush that killed those four american soldiers was not expected. american troops had done two dozen patrols in the same region in the last six months with no problem. but this one was different. certainly in its result, potentially in its cause. now today, in the fourth day of washington turning itself inside out, over the president refusing to speak about the deaths of those service members and why they were killed and where they were killed and what they were doing there, today, today, we finally got the first concrete

information about why the trump administration may have made that decision that so upset this military ally of ours, that prompted their withdrawal. it was just speculation, maybe it had something to do with exxon, chad's a poor country, but it does have oil reserves, the government of chad had recently gone after exxon, saying they had not been paying their taxes, the company demanded something like $70 billion in fines from exxon. it wanted over 1$100 million in overdue royalties. they went after exxon really hard. and the ceo of exxon for most of this time was rex tillerson and maybe that made him mad. that dispute between the government of chad and exxon was settled in june for some undisclosed sum, we don't know. but there had been speculation

because of the weirdness of this decision about chad, the lack of explanation about how this happened they ended up in the travel ban, that maybe this was some exxon business decision that had leaked into the rex tillerson state department. for all the former state department experts who have been speaking out about how bad and dumb this decision was with chad and the travel ban, rex tillerson himself has said nothing about it. maybe someday we'll find out if that had anything to do with it. but today, there's something that arguably makes it even worse, because it's so stupid. when the trump administration set out introducing a new travel ban, if you want to stay off the travel ban, you have to send the u.s. a passport, so we can determine if your passport is secure and they can't easily be

faked. hey, country who wants to stay off the travel ban list, we need you to print up a new travel passport, they have given countries a 60 daytime line to submit a freshly minted passport. chad had to stop issuing passports. they use a special paper like all countries do, countries that secure their passports, it's a specially designed type of pa r paper, chad ran out of that paper. and chad was unable to print a new one, because they didn't have the paper. according to the ap today, they asked the trump administration if they could submit a recently minted passport, the trump administration apparently said no.

and then apparently they ignored everything about their relationship with that country, including the fact that they are our most potent regional partner in fighting terrorism. and they work with us so well on that issue. they just ignored that. they just said, hey, they didn't get the paper work in. and chad got on the list, and that week, chad said, we're pulling out of niger, and now we are where we are. and like i said, if it were the president, i wouldn't want to talk about this either, what we have had instead is a four-day long gut wrenching fight about something that should never be talked about. and that cull minutminated toda general kelly. he walked the path that --

through u.s. military facilities in europe, home to dover air base, and then home to be interred and he said what he personally had been told when he got the notification that his son had died in combat. and trump attacked her because the widow put her on speakerphone and allowed that congresswoman and it feels disgusting as americans to have any of the private grief, to see our president mishandling it at all. it's inconceivable, that trump may have directed the publication of these private matters. the only reason this is being discussed in any political context at all. is because the president still will not talk about what happened in niger, and how and why these american troops lost their lives there. we knew from reporting from

politico that a statement was prepared for him to give the day after the deaths happened in niger. he hasn't given that statement, he still won't talk about it. after two weeks of ignoring those deaths, the president exerted public pressure on that matter into instead this discussion and attacks about notifications and condolences for the bereft. the only reason that public discussion has happened now for four days, with all the emotional strain it has called to the country is because of the president's diversion away from something that happened in niger. i didn't pay for anything. you never do. send me what i owe. i got it. i mean, you did find money to buy those boots. are you serious? is that why you don't like them? those boots could make a unicorn cry.

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right after chief of staff john kelly gave emotional remarks at the white house today after he talked about the ways that the presidents talk to grieving military families. john kelly opened it up to questions and this was the first question he got from the briefing room. >> why were they in niger? we were told they weren't in armored vehicles and there was no air cover. so what are the specifics about this particular incident and why were we there and why are we there? >> let me start by saying there is an investigation. >> why were they in niger? >> before this became a political discussion about fallen military service members, started by this president. what this actually started out

as is the worst combat fatalities of the trump era. the story of four u.s. special forces members killed in the line of duty in niger. because the president made no public acknowledgement of their deaths. nbc is reporting about the swarm of unanswered questions that the pentagon is still trying to get answered on the attack, basic questions like why were those solder s attacked. and the level of confusion both during and after the commission, was, quote, tremendous. joining me now is courtney kube. thank you for being here, we really appreciate your time. >> thanks, rachel. >> so have there been any additional updates since this afternoon. obviously general kelly gave

those very emotional remarks about condolences for family members of service members who are killed. but when it came to what happened in niger, he was circumspect and that there's an investigation. >> general mcmaster, the national security advisor, i asked him about the event in niger, and he also was relatively circumspect. the incident is under investigation, but right now they're really hiding behind the fact that it's under investigation to give us any real specifics. one of the things you talked about in the sbrointro is the confusion, that's one thing that people have been stressing to me in the last two weeks since this happened, this was a patrol they had done 29 times in the past

six months. they were not expecting trouble. they went to see some local leaders and pay their respects and visit with them. and they were ambushed. it was very unexpected. so there is always, whenever there's death of a service member like this, there's what's called a line of service investigation. and now there's this more formal one that's also ongoing, which is looking at the very basic facts of what happened here, everything from who was actually there when the gun fire and the rpgs started coming in. why were at the village for as long as they were there, why were they visiting these leaders as long as they were. everything. and then of course it led to one of the support solders, sergeant johnson, he wasn't found immediately when they all left the scene. >> courtney, in terms of -- i guess the handling of this issue in washington, obviously what has led this to spray into such

an emotionally fraught and far ranging discussion has been the president's reluctance to acknowledge publicly, those deaths, to put out a statement even written about what happened, to explain the circumstances in which these service members were lost. people like general mattis have been willing to talk to reporters about this, but the president himself has been totally mum or diverts questions to other matters? >> i don't know why, to be honest with you. we don't have a lot of facts from the pentagon or from u.s. africa command. so in the first 48 hours or so after this attack occurred, details were very, very scarce, and that was because there was an american soldier who was missing. in the confusion on the battlefie

battlefield, they were evacuated, both the injured, the kill and the uninjured and he was still there, and there was an extensive search for him. so in those first 48 hours, we didn't get a lot of details u because there was this decembspe hope that somebody would find him, dead or alive. fortunately local forces found him and he was returned home as we all saw in that gut wrempnchg video of his widow meeting his remains. the u.s. military just has not been very forthcoming and part of it is i really don't think in the first week or two they knew exactly what happened there. there was confusion about basic facts about who was flying the medevac helicopter. there's been different snacenars and secretary mattis laid out

one today and that was the most accurate, is that there was a french helicopter and a u.s. helicopter, that came in and picked the people up. >> also raising the question of, not in armored vehicle, there was no u.s. search and rescue for these guys, there's a lot of unanswered questions, about the intel that led to this happening, there's still a lot to learn, and a lot of curiosity about what happened. there is a developing story right now that is getting very little attention outside the communities it most affects. it actually affects the whole country. and that story is coming up next. heads up. it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory.

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this is just a heads up on something we have been tracking for a while, that hasn't really made national news. you might remember that the secretary of veterans affair got caught up in the kind of scandal trump cabinet officials keep getting caught up in when he took a 10-day tax ppayer funded trip with his wife, he took a river cruise, some days with no work on the schedule at all and went to see a women's final. fresh off that, the va is now out with their proposal to

overhaul health care for america's veterans. this has been a very controversial issue for veterans, for the va and for all of us for a few years now, ever since it emerged that veterans were waiting too long to see their doctors and records were being falsified to cover up those long wait times. some have been wanting to get rid of the va, and conservatives capitalized on that scandal to propose their own solution, dismantle the va, privatize the va health care system, put veterans into the health care system and put them in the -- it is a system that veterans don't want taken away. so veterans groups have raised alarm bells about conservative efforts to privatize the va in the past. most notably in 2015, ben carson

proposed private advertiizing tn his run for the presidency. now heads up. now the donald trumptrump admin va came out with this vaguely worded health care proposal, they're calling it the veteran's health care rewarding experience act. it represents the quarter million va employees, they say this is basically euphemistic code for privatizing the va, they call it a total dismantling of the va, it's voucherizing veterans health care. now this is just arizin. this has just been proposed by the va, veterans groups have not come out in full force to say whether or not they agree with this. but the veterans committee in the house will hold a hearing,

we expect that veterans will be on hand to testify. if you have been like me watching this for the past few years, conservative groups circling va health care trying to get rid of it. this seems to be the first efforts to do that coming from inside the trump administration. this could end up being a very big deal. watch this space. displaying his cartoon both avenue car in front of the battered infrastructure. >> we're looking around, and it feelings like we're really here in puerto rico. in a world of virtual reality and fake nudews and social net working done in quiet dark rooms. there's no substitute for going somewhere and talk to someone and going somewhere and really doing something.

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crisis that grows deeper by the day, tens of thousands of refugees trapped in a city that's dissolved into chaos. >> how is a 3 week old infant going to be able to survive out here with no milk, no water? >> we don't have even the bare necessities. >> reporter: but victims who have suffered for days say they need help now and want to know where it is. >> you could have dropped it from the sky from those helicopters. >> the failure to get drinking water to the people of new orleans became one of the last symbols of the failure of our federal government in the wake of that storm. at the time, fema picked one company to deliver bottled water to survivors of hurricane katrina. they were paid $80 million to provide water during katrina.

l l lipsy missed nine out of 14 deadlines, they were paid nearly $900,000 in mysterious unsupported costs, and we know the people of new orleans didn't get the water. but apparently fema believes in second chances, because after that experience with that company, just over a decade ago, fema has just granted lipsy, now going bring composite analysis group, they have just granted them a new contract. this to provide them bottled water after hurricane harvey hit texas. bloomberg business week found that fema has awarded $2.2 billion for aid in hurricane harvey. on september 5, gibco llc got a

2 -- gibco's only -- the address listed as it's headquarters belongs to a house in a residential neighborhood in longwood, florida, a phone call to a number associated with the company was answered by a man who refused to answer questions. he referred questions to fema, which declined to answer them. they got a $74 million award from fema to 3wibuild housing f hurricane verdicts. >> how did you find this stuff? >> we have great analysts at bloomberg. it's a big company, we have data analysts who go through federal contracts, they scrub this stuff that's coming out of the nsa, we have a great reporter named chris flavelle, we put all the

information into a spreadsheet and examined it and it looked a little funny. >> seemingly dubious companies getting large contracts is bothersome. maybe they have resources to really provide these things they have been contracted for. what i am surprised by now, is companies that have negative documented track records from previous similar disasters, getting even bigger contracts now. there's no black ball system? >> that's right. fema keeps a long list of vetted contractors that they have that deploy when disasters strike like we have seen the past month. when you see two hurricanes in the same month, they quickly blow through that and they need to turn to whoever's next in line, the next in line if they have changed their name, has a previous track record. there doesn't seem to be a system in place to vet that, or

whoever's giving that contract gave it much mind or cared about it. the impetus is to get the money out the door and get supplies to do this properly and to vet the companies. >> obviously, the fema is of great concern right now because of what persists in puerto rico and u.s. virgin islands in terms of dire conditions there. there's more fema personnel in texas than puerto rico and puerto rico going to a month without drinking water. is there anything from this reporting that tell you a holistic sense whether or not fema is well run right now, whether they're doing a good job? >> brock long, the head of fema right now, is a seasoned lifelong emergency management guy. this is what he's done his entire career. does the reporting we have done

indicate that they are aware of any problems in-house about their procurement situation? it does not. >> ah. well, we'll see. matthew phillips, i think this is a wake-up call an it's really good, good, well done reporting. >> thank you for having us. >> all right. stay with us. i love you, couch.

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can you say with absolute certainty that the election results were not skewed as a result of russian interference,

especially given what we have learned just in the last few weeks? >> yes. the intelligence community assessment is the russian meddling that took place did not affect the outcome of the election. >> that's not true. today the director of the central intelligence agency said something that was untrue. very important. and not true. he said the intelligence community's assessment is that the russian meddling that took place did not affect the outcome of our election. not true. quoting from the intelligence community's january report, quote, we did not make an assessment of the impact that russian activities had on the outcome of the 2016 election. so the cia director made exactly the opposite statement to what the intelligence community put in writing a few months ago. blowback from the comments and then the cray had to put out a cleanup statement. this is it. the intelligence assessment with regard to the russian election meddling has not changed and the director did not intend to suggest that it had except for

what he said directly on tape. >> yes. the intelligence community's assessment is that the russian meddling that took place did not affect the outcome of the election. >> that's not true. the cia director insists the director didn't really mean that when he said it. makes you wonder why he said it then, right? ♪ if you're looking to save money on your medicare part d prescriptions, switch to walgreens. we make it easy to seize the day,

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the state had ranked second in the country in voter participation in the previous two presidential elections in 2008 and 2012. but in 2016, wisconsin saw its lowest voter turnout in nearly two decades. and new piece of mother jones, the reporter offers a theory as to why. this was the first big election under a new wisconsin law that made voting harder. they have a new voter i.d. law in wisconsin. after the election, the university of wisconsin surveyed voters and some of the democratic strongholds in wisconsin. they found over 11% of registered voter who is didn't vote in 2016 were, quote, deterred in some way by the voter i.d. law because they lacked i.d., they believed they lacked i.d. or they were told at the polls their i.d. didn't qualify as valid. well, 11% in the counties translates to as many as 45,000 people in those democratic strongholds of wisconsin who might have been discouraged from voting by the new voter i.d. law. 45,000. hillary clinton lost wisconsin

by 22,000 votes. so voter i.d. might account for more than the margin of votes by which she lost? in july 2014, u.s. attorney general eric holder called wisconsin's voter i.d. law pernicious and misguided. he said it was likely to, quote, impose significant barriers to most basic right of our democracy. here's a programming note. monday night, i'm pleased to say eric holder will be here live for the interview on this show. i have a ton to ask him about. this is his first live television interview since the election of donald trump to the presidency. monday night, 9:00 p.m., eric holder right here. seriously. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening. >> can i spend the weekend writing questions for eric holder? >> yes. anything i absorb thereafter will make me pass out. >> there are so many. can't wait. >> thank you. >> thank you, rachel. a white house chi